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New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: Localjoe on October 19, 2007, 08:42:39 PM

Title: Nathan Stubblefield Earth battery/Self Generating Induction Coil Replications
Post by: Localjoe on October 19, 2007, 08:42:39 PM
So i took a wack at something i thought was going to be wild but i deff had to satisfy my curiosity,   Go stick a small copper pipe or piece of sheet copper like 5 inches or so in the ground, then take a steel screw stick it in the ground about a foot away from the copper and tell me the voltage/ current you get. Copper being positive steel being negative.  I got 1.5 v ac or around .9 v dc and i cant tell the current but its in the hundreds of micro amps, charges ac cap real quick....  I Found out two ideas that will help people.   First stick your copper in the ground, make an imaginary circle in your head using the copper as the center and plop the steel skrew in around the perimeter of this circle walk the whole 360 degrees and try the skrew in the ground every so often.  My conclusion is polar alignment deff makes a difference and produces more voltage and current give how the metals are placed... Doing it near tree roots also had a significant impact on current being higher but no real impact on the voltage.  If the freq of this ac power was fast enough, i guess my question is could i step it up to something useful, mabey just enough to make a small solonid motor with flywheel or alternator of sorts to make additional power. Ideas folks ? I haven't tried putting coils on the metal directly to try Stubblefield stuff i wanted to start basic but the crazy part is these two peices of metal can be separated like at least 10 feet and they still form a circuit, or register voltage on my meter, pretty cool. I also found out that i could run a battery in series, plus of battery to - steel screw, copper pipe to load + and the - term on the battery to the loads - terminal, still lit the led which means its deff possible to use the ground as a conductor of sorts at least across a reasonable space of land.

Weird thing.. my analog shack meter shows the ac while my digital doesent but when i tap the probe on the copper or steel  it registers a little....
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on October 19, 2007, 09:03:12 PM
I forgot to mention this is working in a ceramic pot with a small basil plant in it as well, who woulda knew and its on the wood deck so about 4 feet off the ground level.  Not as much current compared to being in the actual ground
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 26, 2007, 08:26:49 PM
@Localjoe:

I would think a lot would depend on the type of soil and mineralization of the ground where someone lives as to how well, or if, this might work.  A chemistry teacher of mine once showed us that your mouth is actually a battery under the correct conditions....ie chewing on a piece of aluminum foil.

I don't know if you know who Art Bell is....now retired famous host/creator of the Coast to Coast a.m. radio show...well, he is really big into ham radio and he reported that at his Nevada location, he strung up a "super" antenna in an array that was very large and supported off the ground on poles driven into the ground.  when he went to hook his equipment to it, it started blowing stuff left and right.  He checked the antenna line and had something like 210 volts on it.  He ended up putting some kind of filter on it but he said he was always curious as to where that power was from.  He lives way out in the high dessert and is not near any radio transmitters.

Anyway, this may be related to your phenomenon.  Also, could you not have several setups as you described and hook them in series to raise the voltage to a useful level?  Be pretty cool to recharge your cell phone from the earth, or light some LEDs.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on October 26, 2007, 10:49:08 PM
You can make a low power battery using tap water as well as the dirt. I made this a while ago to see if I could light a led.  The amps are no good though for powering larger stuff.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7892/wc1ki4.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/737/wc2ax4.jpg

This guy gets a good spark from falling water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1eyLEo8_A
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 26, 2007, 11:28:30 PM
@ Freezer:

The last link you posted from youtube is a great lecture series.  I enjoyed watching it and am going to look for the others.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 28, 2007, 04:37:57 AM
@Localjoe:

I am considering trying the pipe in the ground effect that you described.  Would this be enough to light a very small LED?  I wonder how many pipes you could put in a certain area and how far from each other they might have to be to still work.  I would love to hear more about your experiment.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on October 30, 2007, 12:17:25 AM
Hey Bill,
           Tye Pipe wasn't that long at all and diameter is about quarter inch or so not half tho. I'll take a pic of that and the skrew i used for it.  What still boggles me is why my meters are telling me different things about the ac voltage, Im betting the analog one is right either way, but im going to get a new digital one soon so i'll try that to make sure. Moral of the story is that the analog meter showed upwards of 1.5 v ac and about .8 v dc. Digital showed the dc but not the ac. 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 02, 2007, 06:29:53 AM
@Localjoe:

Hey, I just tried this tonight and, right out of the box I obtained .88 volts dc.  I used a cleaned copper pipe, 1/2 inch dia. x 8" long, stuck in the ground about 4".  I used a zinc coated screw, about 1" long sutck in about halfway along the true north south axis with the copper pipe being the north.  I moved it around some and got .94 vdc for the best number thus far.

I just watched a video on youtube where this guy built a coil setup like they did in the 1800's and all he got was .88 vdc.  I am going to research this more and try many different experiments with various materials.  This was all I had handy at the time.  I am going to try the tree suggestion as this was mentioned several times in the google search articles that I read.  I just can't believe that I got this high a number on the first several attempts.  I am thinking now about two copper pipes in series with two screws...will this give out 1.88 vdc?  You were correct Joe in that it does make a difference where, and how deep/shallow you put the screw.  Deeper gave slightly lower readings.  A little to the left, or right also lowered the readings.  I would be very interested to learn of yours, and others experiments in this area.  I had no intenetion of trying this as I am working on other projects right now, but this was an interesting break and it works, right off the bat.  Keep me posted please.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 02, 2007, 06:38:59 AM
This is so easy to replicate and experiment with I propose that everyone should try it.  We can compare readings and techniques.  I'll bet, with a little imagination, it won't take long before we get the volts up there.  Afterall, an AA battery is only 1.5 volts so, this is free and possible maybe to hook up an array in series for useful energy.  Free.  I am so excited by this I will have trouble sleeping until I can play some more.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: ken_nyus on November 02, 2007, 03:13:24 PM
I think the voltage will be dependent on the galvanic difference of the metals used.

This is basically a battery using the wet soil as the electrolyte, right?

I love the idea of just putting rods in the ground and getting some electricity.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 02, 2007, 10:37:40 PM
Well yes and no... is a battery pulsed dc or ac??? Im not thinking so...yet it can also act in series with a circuit.  This leads me to believe something else is going on. If someone can answer this in good faith and tell me why would that metal reaction give more amps of current near dry tree soil separated 5 or 6 feet than in a wet soil a foot apart? If we can answer that it may shed more light on how this is working.  I dont know something i'm not telling those are just my observations that don't fit the logical conclusions.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 03, 2007, 01:18:57 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery)

The above is a good link to info on this type of device.  I have read where the water in the ground may act as an electrolite but I am getting reasonably good results in dry soil.  Tesla said that there is enough electricty in the earth to supply all of our needs forever.

I do think it makes a different what type of metals are used, and the position relating to the poles of the earth seem to be important as well. Nathan Stubblefield appeared to use coil types of devices set into the ground as did some others. (See link above)

I have not yet tried to link several in series to see what happens yet...hopefully this weekend will be good for that.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 03, 2007, 01:39:28 AM
Good thinking Bill,
                        I really think that this doesn't have anything to do with a galvanic reaction. Mainly because of the tree factor .. Why is my current 10 times higher near a large old tree with dry soil?  If it were real moist ground It could fit possibly, and maybe the tree roots have something that would speed up the reaction or help it but thats a stretch and if the height didn't make much of a difference It could fit  too but with this experiment when the zinc screw is raised higher than the copper in the ground you see an increase of voltage and current. So the proximity to the tree and the height of the electrodes regardless of distance I see as factors that don't fit the galvanic cell description. I do understand there is a ratio to the ammts of metal in a galvanic cell but this is too much of an extreme. Consider inserting different amounts of the metals into the conductive medium  and theres probably a fall off point where you would see diminishing returns but thats assuming your exposing all the surface aera to that.  Why would taking some of the screw out raise the voltage and current instead of making it fall ?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 03, 2007, 01:52:34 AM
Exactly!  My best voltage was with the 2" long screw, which I started almost burried completly, backed out more than halfway.  This was once I did as you said and moved it around the polar alignment to find the best spot.  I wish I could visualize what was going on here.  Common sense would suggest that we could sink 10' long copper rods/tubes and 10' long zink material and get a large voltage when in fact, I'll bet it would be less.  This seems to be something just below the surface as if there was a circular field of energy, like a vortex on its side, with the top edge of the field just below the surface.  Maybe the other edge of the vortex is just below the surface on the other side of the planet...who knows?

Some early experimenters (1800's) used copper plates and zink plates and burried them just below the surface as well.  I don't know how much voltage they got out of them but then, probably neither did they. (No voltmeters at the time) There are a lot of varibles to play with here by experimentation.  I even tried an empty aluminum beer can twisted into the soil (dirt, no grass) only maybe 1/16 inch and got .29 vdc between it and my north facing copper pipe.  I also set a neo magnet into the dirt about 1/4 inch and between the copper pipe and the mag I got .94 vdc.  distance was, in all cases about 16" from the pipe, give or take.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 03, 2007, 02:33:49 AM
Remember neo magnet ;D.... I forgot to mention i put one on my zinc screw to start with ... easy way to hold the agitator clip lead on wouldn't bite.. I wasn't testing voltage or current at the time i was out there with a d battery or 2 in a holder and i put the positive from the battery to the zinc screw, negative of battery to the led and a jumper from the copper pipe to the positive side on the led and it ran the current through the ground. Maybe the magnet had something to do with part of it anyways, ive been reading all the patents and every one i find seems to take the outputs and connect them to inductors. coils. One shows two induction coils for the old clock battery so one lead to each but another looks like an ac transformer single wire connects the plate and screw and is wound around an iron core then another wire comes off that for the circuit,secondary we'll say. I think keeping the power in an electromagnetic state.. i know thats not the proper term, but if we transform that earth energy to magnetic then wind leads off of that transformer i think that might be the trick so we would set up and oscillator on the other side that we will be stepping up.  I see it common in all the patents just a little different each time.  Tell me what you think
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 03, 2007, 03:33:30 AM
I have not read the patents yet, but I will do so.  I did see a video (from google earth battery search) that showed a guy with a coil device he said replicated the early experimenters and he only got about what I got from an empty beer can sitting on the ground to the copper pipe.

I don't know a lot about coils.  I am familiar with what they do and all, but I am not an electronics guy by any means.  Did it mention what was used for the cores in the coils? (I will read the patents)  What if we used the copper pipe on the north side and a capacitor, partially in the ground for the secondary metal?  We could take the voltage off of the outside of the cap and the pipe and route it into the cap for charging.  Maybe a combination of coils, caps...and who knows?  I was wondering if a resonance might be involved somehow for tuning for max voltage.  The diameter of the copper pipe, length, length in the ground, distance from screw, or other zince or metal.  Maybe the variables have to be "tuned" so a type of resonance takes place that matches the eath's resonance, or a fraction thereof, in some way.

I have not found much anywhere on the web about anyone really working on this in modern day. (Except for the video I mentioned)  what I mean is, I have not seen anywhere that a university or science foundation has fully explored this and determined it is not viable.  It appears the old guys were getting usable electricity from these things.  I wonder what happend?  Possibly 1 cent a kilowatt hour for electricity delivered to your house made further research not practicle at that time.

I also read that one guy, who also had patents, heated and illuminated his home using only this type of device.
Off to read some patents.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 03, 2007, 05:04:47 AM
http://www.flicklife.com/185b45ae4752a1e7d544/Battery_Hack_The_Planet.html (http://www.flicklife.com/185b45ae4752a1e7d544/Battery_Hack_The_Planet.html)

This link is to a pretty good video.  He said he is getting 1.5 amps I believe.  I think his rods are too close together and he could get more with a little experimentation.  He uses it to run an LED in his bathroom...for free.  A step in the right direction.  Read most of the patents, a few more to go.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 03, 2007, 05:16:17 AM
Bill if that dude is right we found out way more than him already and just havent realized it .  He stopped with the electrodes that close....  and we just need longer pieces of metal.......... Awesome find man that just solidified this is defiantly worth our while.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 03, 2007, 06:15:20 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmNoLfjIEac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmNoLfjIEac)

Above link is another video that is a kind of replication of Stubblefield.  I am not impressed by the results shown here.  Just thought you might like to see it if you have not already.

The other video from my earlier post does not even mention if he aligned with the north/south meridian or not.  If not, probably more power there from just this change.  Also, I think he said one rod was a grounding rod...are these zinc coated?

The following is a list of metals and their potentials in the earth:

[edit] Metals and Soils
Potential Differences of metals
(Soil Galvanic series) 
Metal
... Potential
V Cu/CuSO4 electrode
Magnesium (pure) -1.75
Magnesium (alloy) -1.60
Zinc -1.10
Alluminum (alloy) -1.05
Aluminum (pure) -0.8
Steel (clean) -0.50 to -0.80
Steel (rusted) -0.20 to -0.50
Cast Iron -0.50
Lead -0.50
Steel (concrete) -0.20
Copper -0.20
Brass -0.20
Bronze -0.20
Steel (mill scale) -0.20
Cast iron (high silicon) -0.20
Carbon +0.30
Graphite +0.30
Coke +0.30
Notes:
Non-uniform conditions at node surface 


I am not sure, but I think the idea is to choose two that are as far apart on the scale as possible.  If I am calculating this correctly....I used a coper tube (-.20) and a zinc coated screw (-1.10) and this gives a difference of -.90 and I achieved .94.  If these numbers really correlate this way, then we can calculate, within reason, the potential of our metals.  I could be wrong about this.  I would like to try carbon or graphite (+.30) and zinc (-1.10) which should be a 1.4 potential.  This could get interesting.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 03, 2007, 06:43:43 AM
Ive got a few carbon rods left from an electrolysis exp i'll try that one tomorrow too if i have a chance
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 07:39:22 AM
http://www.flicklife.com/185b45ae4752a1e7d544/Battery_Hack_The_Planet.html (http://www.flicklife.com/185b45ae4752a1e7d544/Battery_Hack_The_Planet.html)

This link is to a pretty good video.  He said he is getting 1.5 amps I believe.  I think his rods are too close together and he could get more with a little experimentation.  He uses it to run an LED in his bathroom...for free.  A step in the right direction.  Read most of the patents, a few more to go.

Bill

Hmm, amazing !
1.8 Amperes !
How does he get so much current out of this cell ?
That is really amazing !

Have to try this soon myself.
Maybe the long rods are important ?

Would be interesting to see, if he would get the high
current also after a few days of usage..
Maybe he had just rammed the scratched blank surface
copper rod into the earth and so ithas a big surface in the soil.

Normally this only works as a galvanic cell
having around 0.8 to 1 Volts of voltage and
low milliamps current.
But1.8 Amps is really something, so this seems
to generate already around 1 Watts of power(probably the voltage
breaks down, if you short out the rods via the ampmeter...)

But surely you will consume both rods and spoil the earth with it,
so there will be dangerous copper salts and zinc salts
going into the soils, but I don?t know, how dnagerous they are...
Probably not the zinc salts,but probably the copper salts.
So don?t do this at a places where you draw water from a well  to drink.

Regards, Stefan.
P.S: A graphite rod and a Magnesium rod would give
the biggest voltage, around 1.5 to 1.8 Volts,
but the Magnesium rod would be consumed very fast.
I wonder how long this copper-zinc cell will
last,if this guy always draws about 1 amp....
Probably not too long...
Also the oxidation on the surface will after some time
raise the impedance and lower the output current a lot !
But just try it...
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 03, 2007, 07:57:04 AM
Stefan:

From what I have read in the patents (Listed on wiki from a google search on earth batteries)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery)

even after a long time in operation there is no breakdown or errosion of the metals.  They can be placed very far apart from each other, some say, the farther the better, so I don't see how galvanic corrosion can occur.  But, I am no expert in this, I just discovered this a few days ago after reading Localjoe's topic here.  I have been reading ever since and done a few experiments as well.  The patents make interesting reading and they allude to some pretty decent power outputs.  I think this phenomena is related to Tesla's opinions of earth energy, etc.  I will try to get up some video after doing a few more experiments.  This is easy to replicate and I think that if everyone tries something a little different, there is no telling how much the power might be increased. Localjoe is talking about the use of coils, etc, like in some of the patents.

Stefan, thanks again for this site.  If not for it I would have never heard of this very interesting topic, as well as many others.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 03, 2007, 08:08:58 AM
I agree theres not many places now days where you can still have an intelligent conversation with someone. Ok so yea I wasn't kidding about the 6 to 8 foot space between the electrodes,in keeping with that if that redox reaction can still take place through that much soil tell me,  I didn't think that was possible especially when its been dry. The common factor i"m seeing in these patents as well is the use of an inductor whether to electromagnets or and iron core to make a transformer off of they all have a flavor of it.  And does polar alignment affect a redox reaction if so we could lean towards that, if not id say another strike for this not being a galvanic reaction.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 08:33:11 AM
Hi Pirate and Localjoe,
if you ever get more than 50 milliamps shortcircuit DC current
out of your setup constantly for a few hours, please let me know.

If you want higher voltages you would need to put more cells in series, but this is problematic,
as if the earth gets wet all the cells will be just in parallel and not in series,
so you could try to insolate each cell from each other , so for instance put a big plastic foil around the
whole cell up to the top ground .
But then probably you will have a pure galvanic cell and no earth EM currents...
Hmm... if you also get AC on there this would also be interesting,
so try to take scope shots of the generated voltages.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 03, 2007, 08:47:35 AM
Hmmm well i have no scope, and i think it would fry the computer program i have because of the voltage, the ac showes up on my analog meter but not my digital one so if that means anything to ya.  What im going to try is a transformer im making on a nail just for a test green radio shack 3 pack wire for the secondary like 100 turns and ive got some romex i striped and i think that it would make a nice primary which will connect to the earth electrodes copper and zinc 10 turns.  Now the leads of the green rat shack wire should probably be connected to a cap and a resistor ... so I can make some kinda oscillator. Thats another thing that i remember from many diff docs after the current is tapped you must draw from it at a certain intervals to obtain what they claimed sent raw em energy to the wires.  On a side note i plan to try a camera flash circuit with this to see how quickly it steps the voltage up and fills the cap more reports tomorrow.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 04, 2007, 12:15:31 AM
I did some more experiments today....the results are as follows:


6" long x 1/2" dia copper pipe 2" in the ground on north end
3" long block of magnesium (Fire starter block, 1/2" wide) on south side, 18" apart

1.0 vdc and 2.1 vac (Localjoe, this was using my digital craftsman meter)

2 copper pipes (linked together with jumper) sized as listed above on north end about 10" apart
Magnesium block on south end, about 18" from second copper pipe.

1.51 vdc and 0.0 vac

I don't have a scope either but I would love to know the frequency of the vac.  Stefan, is there any other way to determine the freq.?  I doubt it is 60 cycles, who the hell knows what it might be.

I am looking for a carbon or graphite rod and will try more tomorrow.  I wonder if a golf club carbon fiber shaft would work?

I did not check amps yet (forgot) but will do so in different configurations.  More to come and some video, or at least pictures.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 07:22:34 PM
Hi Bill, just a DC voltage will also register on the AC scale, so you dont know, if there is real AC.
Too bad you did not check the current, as this is the most important measurement.
The voltage comes from the galvanic action, but how much current could be drawn from it normally depends on the sizes of the metal surfaces. Normally you only have MilliAmps...
How long were your rods ? inches or foots ?
Please quote also in cm.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: mikestocks2006 on November 04, 2007, 07:53:44 PM
Hi Bill, just a DC voltage will also register on the AC scale, so you dont know, if there is real AC.
Too bad you did not check the current, as this is the most important measurement.
The voltage comes from the galvanic action, but how much current could be drawn from it normally depends on the sizes of the metal surfaces. Normally you only have MilliAmps...
How long were your rods ? inches or foots ?
Please quote also in cm.
Many thanks.
Hi Stefan,
It's not clear if pure galvanic effect is the source of the voltage differential and current density capability.
This maybe of interest and would help clarify a possible reason for the observations, DC vs AC frequencies etc:

"Telluric currents flow in the surface layers of the earth. The electric potential on the Earth's surface can be measured at different points,...

The field varies in time and over the frequency range 0.001 to 5 Hz (Krasnogorskaja & Remizov, 1975). Electric potential gradients caused by telluric currents are of the order of 0.2 to 1000 volts per metre. (Krasnogorskaja and Remizov, 1975; Vanjan, 1975). At any location, the current density is a direct function of the interhemispheric currents and their potential gradients. It has been estimated that telluric currents overall during twelve hours in one hemisphere are in range of 100 to 1000 amperes"

These are some hefty numbers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluric_current

The galvanic effect  can be a factor, acidity near roots, dissimilar metals etc, but how can a voltage be explained with same metals? Or as some experimenters indicate, when the rods are further apart, the numbers actually improve, higher soil dryness helps etc.
Some more here.
http://www.linux-host.org/energy/tearth.htm
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 05, 2007, 07:22:38 AM
@Mike:

Great info on the telluric currents...thanks.  Have you done any experiments on this yet?

@Stefan:

Rod measurements are in inches. (Sorry, you know us backward Americans) So, unless I miss my guess, 6" long rods are about 15.3 cm and 1/2 inch dia which should be about 1.27 cm. (I think)

I want to try this with longer rods on both ends and then, try a series connection or two.  I was going to try today to light a blue led but, I fried it when I soldered two wires onto the connections.  I didn't know they were that heat sensitive or I would have used a heat sink. 

Stefan, what kind/type/size capacitor could we used to store up this voltage?  I could get one at radio shack if I don't have one lying around here somewhere already.  I know they are measured in picofarrads (I think) but have no idea what size to try. I am going there anyway to get a selection of leds.

I think Stefan is right about the surface area/power relationship but I am not sure going deeper is the answer.  I am now thinking of buying some rod material (longer) and laying it down horizontally just below the surface, which is where this energy seems to be...at least in my part of the world.  I am very interested to know of others work in this area.  I will keep you posted on my efforts.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 05, 2007, 07:37:01 AM
Get a big capacitor,
like 10000 uF and at least 35 Volts or so...
If you get higher voltages from telluric currents,
it depends on the voltage rating, but whenyou only
have galvanic effect you could
also just buy a 1 Farad 2.5 Volts Supercap.

The bigger the capacity the better you can draw higher currents from
it.
YOu could try to use a gardenway LED solarlamp to power the
LED in it.
Just throw out the solar cell and battery and you have a nice driver circuit
for the included LED in the lamp.
These lamps are very cheap today, normally you get 3 pieces for around 15 US$.

Good luck !
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 06, 2007, 02:41:25 AM
Stefan:

Good suggestion on the solar lights.  They sell them here at a flea market very cheap. (Made in China and not very good)  Do I need the driver circuit to light the led?  Sorry to be so ignorant but, at least I admit to what I do not know... ha ha.  I have lit an led just by direct contact with some jumpers off the tubes in the soil.  Would the driver circuit help me and, if so, how?

Also, does anyone know of a good source for magnesium rods and carbon or graphite rods?  I am going to go whole hog and try the most difference in the glavanic scale.

I got 2.6 vdc just using a carpenter's pencil sharpened on both ends (graphite) and the magnesium fire starter block.  Neither one was planted deeper in the earth than 2.5 cms and about 30 cm apart. (Not optimal)  Oh, and as for amps on this trial: .05.  I was just playing around but now I want to get either plates, for more surface area, and/or the rod/tubes mentioned above and really sink them deeper.  I believe the power is there, we just need to grab it in an efficient manner.

Bill

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 06, 2007, 04:28:10 AM
I just found an 8 foot copper pipe in the basement  ;D, just have to cut that to size and find  a grounding rod. I don't think the guy in the video said what the metal was but they must be pretty standard, if i can replicate what he did  with 1.8 amps.. Im just going to use the camera flash circuit to start with and see how quick it will step the current up.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 06, 2007, 04:33:55 AM
Localjoe:

I think, and do not know, that grounding rods are galvanized and therefore zinc coated.  Wherever you purchase one, they should be able to tell you, I would hope.  So far, I have only milliamperes like Stefan said but, I am only in the ground very little with very little surface area.  That is about to change and I will post here the results.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 06, 2007, 04:47:39 AM
Cool thanks for the info bill, i had a feeling they were zinc .. side note some guy in another thread took the time to delete all of his postings and then claim he was keeping the idea for himself after others had given input and it was not stated at the beginning. Its amazing how some people have it all figured out ... hell he could probably rob cars for a living and make it huge... ya know  :o  I told him that most times, servers have backups for several days and even weeks then laughed here for a minute when i thought about how there was a time years ago when people in cities left there homes and cars unlocked at night.  Too bad human nature has gone so downhill in some areas.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 06, 2007, 04:59:55 AM
Localjoe:

Yes, I have read all of that.  I also posted (in case you didn't see) that he had already "published" his idea and therefore could not receive or maintain a patent. (In my opinion)  a lot of people, including myself, have helped him, which is what this site is all about, or, supposed to be.  He will be back when his idea does not work, it is flawed.

I have, at times, thought I was also on the verge of a breakthrough.  I asked myself if I would publish my findings and a video here and elsewhere.  I hessitated only for a moment and decided that yes, I would like nothing better than to share any success with the people here who just might, not only be able to replicate it, but to possibly improve my resutls.  No money for me but, if I were in this for the money, I should just get a second job.

What I am trying to say is that I understand his thought process but, once people here provide input, and someone accepts this input, I think it is too late to decide to "keep it to yourself."

If we have a breakthrough on the earth batteries, I am pretty sure the prior patents have expired.  But, for me, this is not the point.  I would want to use it for myself, and my friends and, have the people here think of ways to improve it that we never even thought of.  Society wins.....that's enough for me.

Don't take my word for the galvanized grounding rod being zinc coated.....if I knew this to be true, I would say I knew....I think this is the case, but check it out.  Interesting results I got with a pencil using the graphite.  Big improvement in vdc.  If I can find a graphite rod about 1" in diameter and a magneisum rod of about the same dia and both about 4' long....I might have a good starting point.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: mikestocks2006 on November 06, 2007, 06:10:12 AM
@Mike:

Great info on the telluric currents...thanks.  Have you done any experiments on this yet?

@Stefan:

Rod measurements are in inches. (Sorry, you know us backward Americans) So, unless I miss my guess, 6" long rods are about 15.3 cm and 1/2 inch dia which should be about 1.27 cm. (I think)

I want to try this with longer rods on both ends and then, try a series connection or two.  I was going to try today to light a blue led but, I fried it when I soldered two wires onto the connections.  I didn't know they were that heat sensitive or I would have used a heat sink. 

Stefan, what kind/type/size capacitor could we used to store up this voltage?  I could get one at radio shack if I don't have one lying around here somewhere already.  I know they are measured in picofarrads (I think) but have no idea what size to try. I am going there anyway to get a selection of leds.

I think Stefan is right about the surface area/power relationship but I am not sure going deeper is the answer.  I am now thinking of buying some rod material (longer) and laying it down horizontally just below the surface, which is where this energy seems to be...at least in my part of the world.  I am very interested to know of others work in this area.  I will keep you posted on my efforts.

Bill
Hi Pirate88179,

Yes, the first thing I tried was to see if it?s pure galvanic effect or not, so I used the obvious. Two same metals. If it?s pure galvanic, then there should be no voltage potential across them.

Well, it measures about 29 milivolts and about 0.012 miliamps across a 2.2k resistance.
The 2 zinc coated nails are about 3/8? dia, 12? long driven in the ground about 2.5 feet apart to a same depth of about 10?. Those two were about N to S aligned. The ground was fairly wet though, due to recent showers. (according to some readings, dryer ground maybe better)
These nails are the common coated nails you can get for your local hardware store garden section or building materials section.
If you want more depth exposure, you may try some common galvanized pipe (eg water pipe ?? or solid electrical zinc coated conduit pipe) for the first rod and maybe some plain copper pipe for the second. and ofc the old mighty sledgehammer

Let us know if you also try same metals to see if you can get any V and A

I hope this helps.

BTW nice work, getting 2.6 V and 50 mA with your setup. It may not be much, but a number of them may make a nice night light arrangement for eg a flower garden at night.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 06, 2007, 09:08:47 AM
@ Mike:

I am glad to see others here experimenting.  I truly believe that no one on this planet at this time knows exactly what can be produced from this.  My soil is not anywhere near perfect. (I live in an apartment)  I don't have much room and, so far, I have only used items I can find around my house for the tests.  I am just amazed that I got ANY positive results and this makes me really wonder what might happen if I purchased materials and spent more time in experimentaion.  I really also wonder what others might find in their own areas of the world.  This site is obviously worldwide and who knows what might work here, but not in Europe, or, the other way around.

From what I have read in the patents, there are amps available here.  One of my friends said to me...."So what, even if you get 2 amps and 50 volts......so what?"  So what? It is free and in the earth and, what if a lot of people experiment with this and then who knows what might be realized.  He told his wife that if we have a blackout that Bill can run an led in his garden.  I say...today an led, tomorrow.....the whole house. (OK maybe need a few more weeks for that, ha ha)

Bill

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 09:28:45 AM
2.5 Volts is already very nice, but the magnesium will be consumed very fast, if you drive an LED or other load with it.
Try with two graphite rods. These are very inert and will not be consumed, so then you would only run it on telluric currents, but then the voltage will be only millivolts probably.
Be cautious not to hit ground high voltage lines..! Good luck.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 06, 2007, 09:38:17 AM
Stefan:

I would love to use graphite rods of any real size.  I have not found any locally.  Is there some place you know of to get these?  I have found several places on-line but I have to order 50 pieces min.  We need to get the amps up for this to be useful I think.  I am thinking surface area like you said earlier.  A lot of the early patents describe using plates, not rods or tubes.  Surface area may be the key to higher amps.  And yes, I was hoping I would not hit any burried power lines while trying this.  Great amps readings for a moment, then death.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 09:47:11 AM
Graphite rods are very hard to come by these days...
Try at your local welder shop... They are still used as electrodes for cutting steel.
You might also try a stainless steel metal mesh. these are also very inert and have a high surface area...
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 06, 2007, 06:48:06 PM
Eds true value baby, 1.99 for the 4 pack of 12 inch ones, if you have lowes or true value try them like steffan said in the welding sections
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 06, 2007, 06:50:43 PM
Excellent!  I will check that out.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on November 06, 2007, 07:13:46 PM
I was thinking you could use copper and galvanized wool.  I have seen some online stores that sell it in a fine mesh or wool form, and I think it would have a good surface area.  I'll see if stainless steel or graphite comes in these forms.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 06, 2007, 07:16:44 PM
You know i thought about it for a second, this replication worked in an insulated pot with dirt and a plant.... showed same voltage .7-.9 vdc but with no current. Curent is present in normal earth tho in excess of 300 micro amperes for me so far and is getting bettter. So in english the current only shoes up in real earth ground not soil in insulated pot.  So it might be safe to say the current im getting is not from a galvanic reaction yet that reaction may me necessary on a small level to tap the magnetic field of the earth to then draw current?  And to support reports of electrodes not decaying or being used up i bet the magnetic feild protects them to an extent..
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Chad on November 06, 2007, 07:38:20 PM
Hi guys my firsy post here.

Ive been reading this thread with great interest and tried a little test of my own with a 30mm carbon rod and a small 30mm copper nail and managed 1.4VDC and 1.5VAC with a simple multimeter, so now im kind of hooked on improving these results and sharing any info as i believe this is the only way to progress.

Were do you suppose the energy is coming from, stored solar energy, energy stored from falling rain drops, magnetic field or maybe a combination ....?.

great forum by the way

chad.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 06, 2007, 08:35:44 PM
Welcome Chad:

Read the post with the link on Telluric Currents.  This gives some possible explanations of the origins of these currents although, like a lot of things, I don't think anyone really knows for sure.  What I like about experimenting in this area is that it won't take much money or equipment to be getting cutting edge results.  I have read everything on line that I could find on this subject and there is not all that much out there.  Keep us posted on your results.  I'm off to buy some graphite welding rods.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 06, 2007, 09:32:34 PM
Thanks Chad and welcome,
                                       Right now i think we've all come to the conclusion thus far that this is a combination of a galvanic redox reaction and some kind of tap for what we could call magnetic current or tell auric current.  Since were all trying different electrodes now please keep posting your results and I will compile a table spreadsheet thing of our findings . I'll  make 2 columns, one for each electrode and have rows as such. Material or Metal Composition of the electrode, dimensions length and diameter if possible,  how far they were inserted in the earth, distance from one another, and results on voltage and current differentiation via depth of electrodes. Thanks folks, hopefully we'll have some free lighting for everyone soon.

My latest results

4 foot copper pipe 1/2 inch in diam i used coarse sand paper to make about 3 foot of it nice and dull and scratched up
i found a small piece of grounding rod ,zinc i had for a coil winding jig and used it about 2 feet quarter inch in diameter

I put the grounding rod in the earth about foot and half or less and copper pipe in about 2 feet. I'm reading 1.2 volts and 1.3 millamps on my meter now ;D ;D. Big improvement from my 300 micro amps with the small pieces i used earlier.  I neglected this time to align these with a compass and they were approx 2 or 3 foot apart so around a meter.  It started hailing out of nowhere and  then lightning.. blue sky all around it too weird i took off running for the deck after I saw the first flash above my head thinking hmmm not a good idea to hold these pieces of metal near this tree during a storm. Hopefully it will clear up soon so i can go back out.
                                                                                                                            Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Arioch on November 07, 2007, 01:23:30 AM
A couple of years ago I messed around with this a tiny bit just using a couple of nails in the ground and got some voltages.  Similar to what you folks are seeing.  I'm in the desert so the ground being wet really isnt part of the equation at least for my situation. 

At the time what I thought I might be picking up was the feedback loop from the electrical companies.  As I understand it they supposedly use the earth to complete the electrical circuit back to their generation stations.  I dont know if this is more theory or fact but I wondered if what I was seeing was the energy flowing in the earth back towards the substation.

If that were true I figured I could test the theory out by going way out into the middle of no where away from any electricity and see if I got the same results.  But I never got around to testing that part out.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 07, 2007, 08:40:24 AM
@Localjoe:

Great job!  Big improvement in a short time.  This is what interests me.  Thanks for volunteering to do the spreadsheet, I think this will quickly allow us to compile information to guide us in the right direction.  I went out today looking for graphite welding rods.  Two places did not carry them but there are many more here to check.  I was on a surveillance until 11:00 p.m. CDT so I didn't get a chance to look further.  Right now, I am all over the place in my attempts but soon, I will settle down to a more scientific approach with depth, distance between electrodes, compass headings, materials, etc.

@Arioch:

Welcome. I don't disagree with your idea.  When I think of all of the electrons that are "pumped" in to the ground every day from all of the electrical circuits, it might have something to do with this.  Also, lightning strikes as well.  The cool thing is...right now, I don't think anyone knows!  We could be as right, or wrong, as a any scientist in the world.  I want to max out readings with the rods and then move on to plates for more surface area and then, maybe coil arrangements like Localjoe was discussing.

One more thought...Localjoe, you said during your experiments a thunder storm came up out of nowhere?  The same thing happened to me on Sunday.  I joked with a friend of mine saying that I must have disturbed the balance of the earth's charge and he laughed.  It did not rain, just huge lightning strikes and thunder for about 40 minutes.  Coincidence?????  I pulled my rods out just to be safe!  Chaos theory: we stick rods in the ground here, and somewhere in China a fuse blows.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: FreeEnergy on November 07, 2007, 09:57:45 AM
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/groundradio.html
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Chad on November 07, 2007, 11:56:12 AM
Thanks for the warm welcom bill.

Ok did a few tests last night with the following, copper, graphite, carbon, zinc plated screws, steel, brass, i found for me the best combination were "graphite" and "zinc plated screws", the next best were the copper and the zinc plated screws but the graphite seemed a little better in place of the copper.

I also found that the soil doesnt need to be in contact with the earth, i took some soil and isolated it from the ground by putting it in a small container and placing it on the side board in my workshop, the size of the container is 60mm OD X 60mm Height,  the voltage was i got was aprox 0.8 VDC. with the graphite and zinc screw about 50mm apart the same distance i used in the garden for the purposes of this test.

Then i toyed with the idea of tryng different earth materials other than soil, well my first test was plain old builders sand (red sand) i did the same proccess of isolating a small sample from the rest and again i got a voltage of around 0.8VDC.

well then i wanted to see if i could gain more by linking a number of small cells together...well it worked, i linked 7 cells together in series and got a initial voltage of 5.60VDC, the voltage dropped at a steady rate until it reached 4.60vdc then it seemed to stabilise.

I wanted to test the cells under load to see how they lasted, well all i have is 6v led's so i hooked one up and the voltage dropped to 1.71vdc it gave a dull but visable glow, so i left this hooked up over night with the meter connected aswell and heres the final readings.


start of the test

starting voltage DC 4.60v
Starting voltage AC 8.4v
Starting voltage under load 1.71vdc
Starting MAh.......1717m        (digital meter)


Results 8 hours later

finnishing voltage DC 3.7dcv
finnishing voltage AC 6.3 vac
finnishing voltage underload 1.69vdc
finnishing MAh......1689m      (digital meter)

these tests were conducted using ordinary red builders sand!, im going to run more test now but im going to be making a few changes to see what the outcome will be.

not a bad start.

sorry about the post modifications i noticed some mistakes.

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 07, 2007, 04:43:01 PM
Ok thats real cool chad i wasen't able to get any discernible current  out of my pot setup with dirt but i will check it out again.  Bill, i agree fully and encourage folks testing these things with us to start with rod style electrodes as we are so we can get a good data sheet on it then move to, experimenting with plates, make a data sheet on that and further a few coil setups once we all have a better understanding on the data at that point.   I read a few of the tellauric patents last night and i still saw the electromagnet/inductor present strung between them and with a transformer so this must be some kinda pulsed dc or how else would the transformer work?

Chad last question your ampreage rating is that 1770 millaamps or microamps.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 07, 2007, 06:09:00 PM

Starting MAh.......1717m        (digital meter)

finnishing MAh......1689m      (digital meter)



Hi Chad,
many thanks for these tests, but what do you mean by these numbers ?
Did you put your ampmeter on the milliAmps scale and measured the
shortout current the cells can give off ?

So does 1717m means 1.721 milliamps ?

So about 1.7 milliamps seems right, when the cell is not very wet
and as you have it in a seperate container, you just have a galvanic cell,
no telluric currents.

But the objective is here to get more power output via the telluric
currents.
I wonder, where they could be got the best way, in a forrest
near trees or near houses were the return wires from the electric power
companies might create them ?

I already tried many galvanic cells and saltwater cells
and only via telluric currents you could get a bigger power output.
so I wonder, how this other guy could get 1.8 amperes from his
pipes,that sounds really very  big as the galvanicoutput is mostly
only in the 10s of milliamps at the maimum, normally under 10 milliamps
(DC short circuit current), if you don?t use disruptive chemicals with it like
chlor bleaches or acids or something like this..

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Chad on November 07, 2007, 06:23:22 PM
Hi stefan, sorry about that what you say is right 1.7 milliamps, so it looks as though im describing microamps  :-[ , im pretty new to all this so il il keep plugging away and promise to get it right next time  :D

il be back  ;)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on November 07, 2007, 09:02:42 PM
1.7milliamps is pretty good.  I cut up an old graphite golfing shaft, into 3 pieces and got 3.5 milliamps, but low voltage around 1.9, which barely lit a led.  I'm sure I can get it to light brightly if I use more cells.  Graphite works a lot better than copper.  I think the more (+) material, the more amps, and the more (-) the more voltage, in proportion to one another.  My goal is to light my 3 watt luxeon led :).
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 08, 2007, 03:53:17 AM
@Chad:

Great results so far, keep it up! 

@Freezer:

Keep up your efforts also.  I went to 4 places today to try to buy a graphite welding rod but no one had any.  I have a golf club shaft that is some form of graphite, I might try to utilize that.

@Localjoe:

Man, you started a great topic here.  I hope it continues to take off and we can publish some great results!!!  I am again tomorrow seeking materials.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: gaby de wilde on November 08, 2007, 05:09:39 AM
I'm sure I've seen more then 5 websites about this ground battery stuff. I didn't pay much attention until I see the plans on ebay. (don't have a link for that either :P)  I don't remember it 100% but there was one plan who dug a hole covered it with plastic, then made lasagna using layers of earth and big plates of copper and zinc. Go deep, make it cover a large area. I think they just put them in series and parallel.

If your rods have 1 A and 1 V then you need 1000 times as much surface for 1 kw
If it's only 10 mA * 1V you would need 10 000 times as much surface to make 100V * 10A

The surface of 1x1m plates is quite a bit bigger as that of a single rod. I wasn't really that interested as I thought it was probably some evil chemical reaction I wouldn't want to have in my garden. But if one can isolate the earth that changes everything. :)

Hummm didn't Don Adsitt have plans on his site?

leme search...

http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/earthbattery/ebpage1.htm

(note to self: Adsitt with 2 times the t)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 08, 2007, 05:23:21 AM
@ Gaby:

Thanks very much for the link.  This never came up in any of my internet searches.  I have not read all of it yet, but I will.  This goes with Stefan's premise that the more surface area you have, the more amps you can produce.  It is consistant with the patents we have read.  Thanks again.

PS  Have you tried any of this yet?  If so, what were your findings?

BIll
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 08, 2007, 08:24:13 AM
BTW, you can make your own conductive graphite powder from burning coal pellets.
Have a search in the battery section.

My girlfriend gave me the tip to try this.. :)
Then you could also use this conductive graphite powder to make graphite "paper" which has a huge surface and so you could make your own huge surface graphite paper plates.
Surely you need then to make sure the soil is not too wet, so the paper does not dissolve...I am at my PDA at the moment, so I am posting the links later...
But they are all here in the "battery" section.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 08, 2007, 08:36:48 AM
P.S. Is there any chemical glue , that is not water dissolveable and will still conduct okay, when graphite powder is mixed into it ?
This would be needed to get longer lasting conductive graphite paper plates. Maybe graphite could be mixed with some 2 component glue and this will still be enough conductive ?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: gaby de wilde on November 08, 2007, 06:41:17 PM
@ Gaby:

Thanks very much for the link.  This never came up in any of my internet searches.
Google cant read text from images jet. But if you look at their patent search it's not far away :)
Quote
I have not read all of it yet, but I will.  This goes with Stefan's premise that the more surface area you have, the more amps you can produce.
Yeah, up to some point I think the location matters the most. Or maybe it's better to call it the soil if it also works isolated.
Quote
It is consistant with the patents we have read.  Thanks again.

I'm curious what kind of effect charging this battery would have. ^_^

Quote
PS  Have you tried any of this yet?  If so, what were your findings?

BIll

ha-ha, I'm trying to avoid everything that doesn't relate to permanent magnet motors. Just that is already to much work for me alone. I already drew a gravity engine by accident. :-[ It's an awful design, it doesn't seem to want to get debunked. No it appears the invention wants to be build by me specifically. hehehe

You should make a website about the earth battery, having wikipeida as the NR 1 result is pathetic. We should be ashamed as a species. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery
Earth battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's not a bad wiki, it doesn't say "this innovation was debunked by a 12 year old skepticus who doesn't know anything about the topic" like wikipeida does about most free energy inovations (if it even allows them to have a page.) They merge stan meyer with the waterfullcell? O_O Maybe we can merge Bush with the patriot act? lolzz?? Maybe that's just a weird thing to do?  no?

But if you look at the talk page you can see the disinformation brigade spew everything they can make up. Ow how this article needs to be deleted? When listing facts everything needs a source but when debunking things we can just take random opinions and use that. ROFL

Don adsitt correctly says there is galvanic action going on. But some guy on the wiki talk page says he tested it and the galvanic reaction should produce a far smaller current as what he got.

Adsitt's link obviously appeared on the page a hundred times.

My gut says this is the ancient art we are talking about here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomancy
Geomancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I recognize this

Quote
In recent times the term has been applied to a wide range of other occult, fringe, and pseudoscientific activities, including Bau-Biologie. This article deals with geomancy in its traditional meaning.

This is the handwriting of the disinformation brigade.

on the other page wikipedia says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bau-Biologie
Quote
is a science that investigates the indoor living environment for a variety of irritants. It is a comprehensive science that considers our living environment as an organism, and considers how its functioning can produce a restful or stressful environment. Far from being "fringe science", its experiential findings provide robust guidelines to use in building a healthy home, or healing one that is sick. 

The disinformation brigade clearly was not as interested in Bau as in the earth battery. Surely if it was a fringe science it wouldn't have a page in wikipedia. The page says "FAR FROM BEING FRINGE". Does it need to be more clear then that?

I think our agent bubbie found a great excuse in that to be able to delete a lot of information from the page. Lets have a look....

ah-ha

From the first contribution to the geomancer page.
Quote
a kind of divination by means of figures or lines, formed by little dots or points, originally on the earth, and latterly on paper.

This was changed into:

Quote
is a method of divination that interprets markings on the ground.

Now look what happened here:

"little dots or points" is less accurate as "markings" no question about this.

"in the ground and later on paper" has changed into just "ground". Which is less accurate.

Later the word ground is even replaced by dirt. That's probably more scientific right?

It's not a kind of divination that interpreters markings.

It is the means of divination.

It's like saying it's a kind of car mechanic that repairs cars.

they make the markings. They don't just interpret them.

A kind of car mechanic who looks at defective cars?? 

Now do you see how much lies got injected into that single line? I'm not that confused by this but I bet it's confusing enough for some. I'm at least confused enough not to be able to build an earth battery from the info..... lol

How do we get the numbers on the galvanic action? How many years would it take to show? What to compare it to?

Poking a hole in the ground reminds me of an old story about condoms being promoted in some native place. The next year they return and they see the condom over a pole exactly the way they had demonstrated it. Before  they pull it over the stick and put it in front of the hut.

The person demonstrating the earth battery probably took his rods with him?

All knowledge that remains is the poking of the holes? We know that part is probably correct, now guess what else did they do?

It reminds me of those wands the ancient egyptians hold. Those are said to be made of 2 different materials and to affect their user in some way.

Would Galvanic action be comfortable in your hands?

I cant imagine....

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 08, 2007, 11:46:37 PM
Well thats an interesting theory but were trying to keep on track with our current experiments so if you have any ideas on how that applies to the rod elrctrode testing phase were in please share your results and how geomancing increased your results vs what has been posted so far. And remember to take the measurements defined earlier in the thread if possible to share and compare.
                                                                                Thanks
                                                                                          Joe

Aright I cant help myself with this one 8), What would a necromancer do then?  Survey the dead.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 09, 2007, 05:06:47 AM
Well, I have exhausted all of my local sources for graphite or carbon rods so now, I am awaiting quotes from internet companies.  This is frustrating!

@Stefan:

I guess one could make a graphite rod but, when you use glue, or any other binder, you will decrease the electrical properties proportionally.  the best graphite rods are iso-pressed, isostatically pressed at thousand of psi.  My old company, which I lost in my divorce, had a supply room of thousands of ceramic and graphite materials, sorted by size and material compostion.  I tested one of my graphite/carbon composite golf shafts and it has a continuity reading of zero, if you scrape off the gloss finish and paint.  I am also searching for magnesium rods, or will settle for zinc if I have to.

I want to get on with this!!!!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: FreeEnergy on November 09, 2007, 09:04:08 AM
guys look at http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,948.msg46100.html#msg46100
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 09, 2007, 09:47:48 AM
Well, I have exhausted all of my local sources for graphite or carbon rods so now, I am awaiting quotes from internet companies.  This is frustrating!

@Stefan:

I guess one could make a graphite rod but, when you use glue, or any other binder, you will decrease the electrical properties proportionally.  the best graphite rods are iso-pressed, isostatically pressed at thousand of psi.  My old company, which I lost in my divorce, had a supply room of thousands of ceramic and graphite materials, sorted by size and material compostion.  I tested one of my graphite/carbon composite golf shafts and it has a continuity reading of zero, if you scrape off the gloss finish and paint.  I am also searching for magnesium rods, or will settle for zinc if I have to.

I want to get on with this!!!!!!

Bill


Hi Bill,
the advancement of normal or earth batteries can only occur, if we find
a binder, which is not walter solveable and which can bind graphite to
textil or paper or other forms of bigger surface material without degrading the
conductivity of graphite.
So has anyone tried different forms of glue to get this ?

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Chad on November 09, 2007, 09:53:47 AM
Well, I have exhausted all of my local sources for graphite or carbon rods so now, I am awaiting quotes from internet companies.  This is frustrating!

@Stefan:

I guess one could make a graphite rod but, when you use glue, or any other binder, you will decrease the electrical properties proportionally.  the best graphite rods are iso-pressed, isostatically pressed at thousand of psi.  My old company, which I lost in my divorce, had a supply room of thousands of ceramic and graphite materials, sorted by size and material compostion.  I tested one of my graphite/carbon composite golf shafts and it has a continuity reading of zero, if you scrape off the gloss finish and paint.  I am also searching for magnesium rods, or will settle for zinc if I have to.

I want to get on with this!!!!!!

Bill


Bill have you tied these guys, they seem to have lotts of usefull graphite rods and blocks ......includes prices aswell.

http://www.graphitestore.com/items_list.asp/action/prod/prd_id/70/cat_id/22

chad.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 09, 2007, 09:58:08 AM
I spoke yeasterday with an engineer friend, who has some
experience with house-electricity connections, rules and reglementations, etc...

He told me, that the earth is very conductive !
About under 10 Ohms for 1 km length.

So he also said, that due to this ,ground currents can easily
flow inside the earth.

Also there are always leaking currents from bad isolation
household devices, which flow via the grounding of the houses back to the transformer
stations inside the earth. Along this path there will be voltage potentials to be able to be tapped.

Also electric train rails and high voltage powerline masts have huge earth currents nearby.

So this guy, who got 1.8 amps must be probably living near a heavy usage
electricity location, where many leakage currents go through the earth.

As the earth together with the rods you want to stick in it
can be seen as a big potentiometer, it depens where you tap
the resistance to get a voltage and thus a current.

So in general, if you just use 2 copper rods,so you have no galvanic action
and just tap ground currents, the voltage will be bigger, if the 2 copper
rods are farther away from each other, cause then you have more earth resistance
between it and thus the voltage will be higher.
But then you need of course a current inside the earth, that also flows
exactly into the direction of the 2 rods.

So all in all, if you want not just the galvanic
action, that consumes the metals,but  to research and  extract real ground currents,
you need to go to a place,where there are no power lines or transformers
nearby, so you can really test the pure earth currents from natural sources....

But I guess, then these would be pretty small and thus the output power
would be also pretty low...
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 09, 2007, 11:17:20 AM
I spoke again today with my friend and he told me, that
steel inside cement is acting like a copper material in
the dissimular metal chart !

That is very astounding to me.
So you can replace expensive copper by just normal
steel  and put the steel into cement "wrapping".

This is probably also one electrode in Steve Ryan?s
www.biosfuel.org
urine battery.
The other electrode was said to be Titanmesh metal.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 09, 2007, 12:04:17 PM
I just tried with 2 iron nails being about 30cm long and putting them about 25 cm into the
earth about 1 meter away in front of my house,where I live
and there was no voltage on them.
The soil was still pretty wet from showers the last days..

I also used then one iron nail and a copper pipe and I just had about
0.15 Volts on them, but this is just from the galvanic action.

Normally you need to put these rods at least 1.5 to 2 Meters deep into the
earth,otherwise you will not see any effect at all.

So my rods were probably not deep enough and there were no ground currents
on the surface.
I sticked them into north-south direction also...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 09, 2007, 05:42:50 PM
I'm In the Adirondack park, Upstate NY, I think that classifies as out there...  So if i have a chance this weekend i have a mountain like 5 mins from my house that i can try this at.  However much difference this will make from my house in the city which is still a small town i don't know, but it would show how much leakage penetrates the city. 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 09, 2007, 09:26:07 PM
@Chad:

Thanks for the link.  I looked at that site last night and it was the only one I found that actually listed prices.  I found a local supplier, who is out of stock, but ordered me a carbon rod 3/4 inch dia x 17 inches long!! ($21.77 USD) That should do it. He said it would arrive in about a week. (sigh)  He also had magnesium rod but it was coated with iron powder for welding purposes, not good for us I think.

So, I will put the carbon rod to the north, and on the south side, I guess I will have to use a zinc grounding rod or something like that.  I should see at least 1.4 to 1.5 volts from the galvanic difference and, hopefuly due to the depth and larger surface area, a good increase in amps.  I know I have been saying this but I will video this and post it once I get the materials.  This should be more than enough to light an led pretty well I should hope.

@Stefan:

When I got my best readings so far, I used a pencil sharpened on both ends and a magnesium fire started block and they were each only in the ground about 1/2 inch and about 1 meter away from each other.  Make sure you align to the true north/south meridian and not magnetic north.  You need to check a detailed map for your area to see what the declination is or, just stab around where you think it is and take your best readings.

I agree there is some kind of galvanic action going on, to a point but remember, when you read the patents and other info posted, that bleed currents from bad electrical installations, which I am sure exist everywhere now, did not exist then as no one had electricity!  The earth gets charged and discharged through lightning strikes, etc  and some say the spinning molten core is like a generator of sorts, who knows?

@ Localjoe:

Have you tried the welding rods yet?  The guy in the video with the led said one of his rods was a grounding rod.  I found one at Home Depot that was 8 foot long.  It was some kind of metal that was copper clad.  No one seemed to know what kind of metal it was.  Maybe, being copper on the outside, it acts like a solid copper rod?  I'll see what I can find on the net about that.  In the meantime, I am on hold for about a week...of course, I will try a few other things here and there while I am waiting.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 11, 2007, 08:03:13 AM
Hi guys,
Nice to see that research is going on with earth batteries.  A year ago I spent several days experimenting with different materials.  Unfortunately I threw away my results, but I had some voltage with copper & aluminium.  I also used a zinc coated rod.  Basically, position in the ground and distance had no effect on voltage.  In the end I built 3 trays of soil (topsoil) and connected them in series.  I was able to power an LED with 1.6V / 16 mA but when I checked the next day it had gotten dim.  It seemed to be purely galvanic. 
I do believe that a coil/capacitor that could capture current and resonate at the very low frequencies pulsing through our planet (1-15 Hz) would change everything.  I'm no coil expert but 60 Hz ac is quit low and that is simple to resonate.  I guess it would not be too difficult to calculate the number of turns for a coil.  We could also try a variable capacitor such as is used in tv/radio tuners and then use a scope to look at the output waveforms and determine if there is a point that begins to resonate.
Does anyone want to try that?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 11, 2007, 08:20:02 AM
@ akashh:

Glad to see you here.  I would love to persue the coil approach but, I have no real education or knowledge in this area.  A lot of the afore mentioned patents speak of coils.  I think now we are all trying to "max out" the differential metals potential and then, we will move to coils, etc.  I have one thought on the coil approach.  Stefan mentioned that amps were probably proportional to the surface area exposed to the telluric currents and this is most likely the case.  A coil would be an easy way to increase surface area.  As far as stepping up the voltage and decreasing the amps, I am familiar with Ohm's law but have no idea how to design or calculate the number of turns, etc.

I can't wait for my carbon rod to show up.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 11, 2007, 10:27:02 AM
Yes, I've been experimenting with activated carbon (used in water filters) which is a conductor.  I was trying to build an aluminium-air battery with it but still didnt get time to finish it.  Anyway, that should be easy to come by in particle size - mine are about 3mm grains.  You can just pour some out and put some form of wiremesh in-between to capture electricity uniformly by connecting a wire to it.  By applying pressure to it you get much better conductivity.  Why not try that out?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 10:46:32 AM
To maximize the telluric currents capturing, it might be justthe simplest thing
to burry a few stainless steel mesh metal "sheets" vertically into the earth at least about 2 to 3 meters
deep.
Probably the deeper you go the better it gets ?
Hmm, must be tried, but I don?t have access right now for a soil to try it on..
Maybe some of you who have a farm land can try it away from any power grids...

Good luck.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: mikestocks2006 on November 11, 2007, 05:21:36 PM
Update, Initial tests.

But first things first.
I?ve arranged with the Utilities Protection Services to come out to the property,  identify and locate (spray and flag) any underground cables and their location. They also do the gas, sewer and water lines.

They?ve located the power cables, the telephone, and TV cable.
May I suggest at this point to anyone who?s delving into digging or driving any conductors in their yard to do the same as a safety precaution. The cables are not very deep. From a couple of feet for power cables to few inches for TV and telephone.
Ok back to the test parameters

Tested first for galvanic effect if any.
Used 2 Zinc Hot Dipped Nails 12? long 3/8? Dia ( 30cm L x 1 cm Dia) ~ 65 cents cost
Driven into the ground to a depth of 10 Inches (25 cm) 
Aligned North and South
Distance apart 23 feet (7 m)
Safe distance from any underground cables/pipes etc over 75ft ( 22.5 m)
There are no transformers in this street, the closest drop per the utility ppl is over half a mile away. (.8 km)

Readings
No resistor
Voltage 57 mV DC
Current 0.051 mA
Also shorted the gap and immediately tested again, the same readings shown
Flipped the multimeter test leads and both V and A were reading negative (-) same values. (assured multimeter was not pumping the setup etc)

Across 10.1 Ohm resistor
Voltage 2 mV DC
Current 0.005 mA

Across  1024 Ohm resistor  (~1KOhm)
Voltage 28mV DC
0.045 mA

No VAC was detected.

Next  planning on using metal conduit pipe ?? OD (1.23cm)
Got a 10 foot (3 m)  length cut in half so I can get over a meter into the ground, but it started raining (getting close to freezing point too) so will have to wait and when more time is available. Interested to see the effect if any of more ground contact area. Apparently distance is not much of a factor, if anyhting it seems to help. But only limited testing so far...

Some other combinations may include, metal conduit and copper pipe (both ?? Dia) and
orienting the conductors East-West to see if there is any effects. Also looking into Al pipe.
Again this does not appear to be pure galvanic effect or it should be reading zeros.
Maybe we need to do this, way out in the woods as another member also suggested.

Thanks
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 11, 2007, 11:27:53 PM
G'day all,

Have a look at this article. Could this mechanism offer part of the explanation for the phenomenon?

http://www.biomassmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=1363&q=&page=all

Hope this helps in your research.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 12, 2007, 01:36:17 AM
Hans:

Excellent article.  We appreciate your input.  I guess it is possible that these microbes are in the ground soil and generating electricity.  Since, from what I have read, no one knows exactly where this power comes from, then that means that no one can say where it isn't coming from.

@mikestocks:

Very good recomendation on the burried cable location service.  It wouldn't do to drive a conducting rod into a powerline.  Possibly free energy for a while if one lived through it, but not a good idea.  I obtained similar results with two copper pipes, which should eliminate the galvanic angle.  I am still going to use carbon and either zinc or magnesium to see what happens.  My best results are in polar alignement N/S not magnetic N/S.

@Stefan:

The mesh sheets you speak of would have a ton of surface area for their size.  I had a similar thought when looking through the metals department in a hardware store.  I was checking out the expanded metal sheets (with the diamond shaped hole patterns) and I asked what material they were made of and I was told "metal".  Wow, that really narrows it down.  Stainless should work I would think.  I am not sure if you burry it paralell to the n/s meridian or across it?  I guess 90 degrees to it would allow for more interception of the currents.  A lot of experimentation here.  I bought some alligator clips to make some longer jumper wires and a few leds as well. (Radio shack)

Bill

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on November 12, 2007, 03:08:32 AM
Guys, I just came across this topic. Sorry to bust this topic but it is not new.  My cousin in Poland has a neighbor who is selling electricity to the grid using this principle for about 10 years.  The only thing is that he sticks his electrodes into big pile of city waste.  Everyone is saying that he make electricity from garbage.  When asked how it works, he doesn't really wants to talk about it.  Hartiberlin, the funny thing is that he learned it, from someone in Germany.   Obviously someone in your country knows this for years! 
George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 12, 2007, 04:00:50 AM
@George:

First, welcome to this topic.

Second, no one claimed that this is "new" as evidenced by the patents listed in the early posts dating from the 1800's.  That is interesting information about your cousin in Poland.  If he is selling them why does his company not come up anywhere in a search for earth batteries?  Possibly he is not on the internet.  Also, you said he is using waste areas which might be related to Hans's recent post here.

Can we get more information on your cousin?  Things like, what is he selling? Kits? How much? How much power is he able to obtain?  Any of this would be very helpful I think.  I am glad he is working on this idea.

If you cousin can speak/write English, or if you can translate for him...and he has access to the internet, why not invite him to this forum and topic?  I know you said he won't give any secrets away, and that's fine.  I would just be interested in whatever he might feel like telling us.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on November 12, 2007, 04:37:17 AM
Bill,
Just to clarify,
Not my cousin - his neighbor does it.
He is just producing pure AC which he sells to the grid.
He does not sell any kit, or work on it.
How much power he can produce?  According to my cousin,  his neighbor doesn't work anywhere else.  He is just living selling power to the grid. 
I will attempt to get more info from my cousin about this technology.  However I tried to do this 2 years ago without much of a success.  I did some research on the internet and actually found nothing at all either.  According to my cousin this technology is used in Germany where his neighbor learned about it. 
George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 12, 2007, 05:02:31 AM
George:

Thanks.  Yes please see what you can find out.  Maybe we should have Stefan look around in his country to find out about this technology. So, I see, he just sells the power to the grid for money. (Boy, I would love to do that) Sorry I was confused that it was your cousin.  Sometimes I read these posts too fast.  Please keep us posted.

@ Stefan:

Have you heard of anyone in Germany doing this?  Of course, the people that are doing it are most likely going to keep quiet about it like George's cousin's neighbor.  Maybe you could make a few inquiries?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on November 12, 2007, 05:15:50 AM
Bill, I just sent email to Poland.  Let's see what is going on now. 
My original intention posting here was to "redirect" experiments into biological waste.  Myself cannot do it as I live in tight neighborhood, and making my own biological waste cell is out of questions because of the smell.   Someone who lives in more open areas could try to dump garbage into the drum or hole in the ground for some time and then try to measure voltage.
George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 12, 2007, 06:45:20 AM
G'day George and all,

Please read the article I have posted above. What your Polish mate does seems to be the same thing. They have been experimenting with breeding these microbes in garbage and extracting electricity from it, albeit in smallish quantities. Perhaps the fellow in Poland found an efficient way of doing this.

Hans von Lieven

EDIT:   here is another link:  http://www.bu.edu/research/spotlight/2007/biology/microbes/index.shtml

They are talking about 100 watt per cubic meter and are aiming to achieve 10 times that.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: FreeEnergy on November 12, 2007, 11:26:33 AM
forward the video to about 20 minutes and see...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4591847614090637731&q=soil+battery&total=11&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5


edit - sorry i though it was some kind of soil battery but it turned out to be some kind of vinegar type battery.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: FreeEnergy on November 12, 2007, 12:22:32 PM
also see http://ops.dot.gov/regs/small_ng/Chapter3.htm

(http://ops.dot.gov/regs/small_ng/images/Chapter3_img_11.png)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 12, 2007, 06:20:21 PM
Thanks for the new input folks , ive almost got the chart structure done and i can finally go out and test a few more things today updates in a few hrs. I did measure the freq and duty cycle with my meter today forgot about the little hz symbol, anyways it said 60 hz fluctuating to 59 and back and a 45.4 % duty cycle. now when i moved the electrodes a little closer it changed to about 40 hz and other sporadic readings but im positive im not hitting anything except dirt and tree roots and theres no power lines above me so just an update.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 12, 2007, 11:36:35 PM
@ Localjoe:

That's interesting.  The information on the telluric currents on google said the freq. of the earth should be 1 to 5 Hz, very low frequency.  Your result is dangerously close to the 60 cycle current supplied by the power companies, which, if you meter it, fluctuates as well within certain limits. What did you measure the freq. with?  My meter won't do that, I thought it took an oscilloscope but, I am very far from knowledgeable in this area.  Good luck with your explorations.  I am still in a holding pattern waiting my carbon rod delivery.


Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 12, 2007, 11:47:12 PM
Its the digital one from radio shack that is a step down from the one with a pc interface it says hz right next to contunity and it has duty cycle as a secondary function.  the freq changed with depth but didn't stay constant at the 60 when i changed the depths very interesting.   The 60 hz didnt show up unless i put the electrodes n to south well i still cant find my compass so i looked at a top down map and made a best guess.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on November 13, 2007, 02:28:14 AM
Guys, 
Got reply from Poland.  Sorry for disinformation.  The guy is not using electrodes but pipes to recover methane gas to power converted diesel engine with generator.   Well, next time I will check facts first, before I open my mouth. 
George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 13, 2007, 02:48:19 AM
George:

Thanks for the update.  Still, he is selling power back to the power company and that should interest some people here on this site. Not an earth battery but....still very useful info.

Bill.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on November 13, 2007, 04:58:08 AM
Hi
I'm in on this too.
It was too stormy here all day and when it cleared I put a piece of rebar and a 10 " by 2 " copper plate into the surface of the ground (no deeper than 1"). they were sort of N-S  and I got a steady .16V sometimes and a cycling from .18V to 0 . Then I connected between the copper plate and the the shovel I had propped up next to the rebar and got a very steady .18V. I guess the shovel has a lot more surface area than the rebar. This is too low. but I am encouraged to keep going. The day was ending and I could barely read my multimeter.
 I have been looking at this for a few years but never tried it.

I have a couple of comments from my previous research.

This is a kind of throw-away because I can't find the source, but I distinctly remember being told that Tesla chose 60 Hz for the AC because that was what he thought the tuning of the earth to atmosphere was. I am putting this out in case anyone else has heard this and can verify it for me.

Several years ago I copied an article onto my computer that has a picture of Stubbenfield's earth batteries. Then the researcher made a point to say that there was a rock layer between the electrodes. I think this may be important in the design. It is actually the reason I never tried this. I was renting.

The telephone company still uses this earth battery. Stubbenfield used it when he was inventing his telephones and this earth battery is evidently one element that makes the land lined telephones work. Have you ever seen the sign on a piece of metal around your house that says "do not remove or disturb" and it is signed the telephone company? That is the connection to the ground. They call it " the ground" and you think it is like the ground of an electrical company circuit. But it is not. When the power goes out (as it did here today) I can plug in my old rotary phone and "dial" a number. If the person I am dialing also has a rotary phone, it will ring and we can talk. This is because those old type phones work without any electric company electricity. It is from this ground wire. !!!   So, let's carry on.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 13, 2007, 05:21:30 AM
jeanna:

Welcome to this topic.  I hope that more people attempt to experiment in this area and we can compare the results.  As far as Tesla goes...I have read several books on him and all of them say he was obsessed by 3's.  He lived his life in ways that were either three, or multiples thereof.  60hz is a multiple of three but I don't know if that was an accident or not.

Considering the galvanic differences in your metals you should/could have produced .40 volts.  Also, when you align to north/south, it is not magnetic north like you read on your compass.  It should, from what I have read anyway, be aligned to the north pole of the earth which can be quite different from magnetic north depending on your position on the planet.  Please continue with your experiments and keep us posted. Localjoe is going to input the results to a spreadsheet so maybe we can get a better handle on what works, and what works better.

As for history, have you read where the telegraph folks continued to pass messages long after their (Edison) batteries were dead?  This was also attributed to the natural potentials of the earth battery. As far as your old rotary phone working is concerned, and anyone correct me if I am wrong on this, the phone company sends it's own low voltage through the line which can ring the bell, or buzzer, and may, or may not be effected by a local power outage.  the reason modern phones don't work is because usually they are cordless and the base needs power for the transmit/receive functions.  Please keep up your work.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on November 13, 2007, 06:55:14 AM
jeanna:

Welcome to this topic.  I hope that more people attempt to experiment in this area and we can compare the results.  As far as Tesla goes...I have read several books on him and all of them say he was obsessed by 3's.  He lived his life in ways that were either three, or multiples thereof.  60hz is a multiple of three but I don't know if that was an accident or not.

Considering the galvanic differences in your metals you should/could have produced .40 volts.  Also, when you align to north/south, it is not magnetic north like you read on your compass.  It should, from what I have read anyway, be aligned to the north pole of the earth which can be quite different from magnetic north depending on your position on the planet. 
Yeah it was pretty sloppy. I was pushing the dusk and I wanted something. I went into the shed that has an earth floor. I couldn't dig deep enough to get the metals in more than an inch. I will give it more time
As for history, have you read where the telegraph folks continued to pass messages long after their (Edison) batteries were dead?  This was also attributed to the natural potentials of the earth battery.
Pretty cool.
 As far as your old rotary phone working is concerned, and anyone correct me if I am wrong on this, the phone company sends it's own low voltage through the line which can ring the bell, or buzzer,
yup and it has to return by the ground not the wire or it won't work.

I may have inserted my remarks wrong. I am new to this forum stuff. (but I love it anyway)

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 13, 2007, 07:29:07 AM
Jeanna:

Your remarks were fine.  I'm glad your here.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on November 13, 2007, 08:22:59 AM
Guys, 
Got reply from Poland.  Sorry for disinformation.  The guy is not using electrodes but pipes to recover methane gas to power converted diesel engine with generator.   Well, next time I will check facts first, before I open my mouth. 
George

I just wanted to post about this, as this was the only case I could imagine he was using it alike.
There seems to be coming a lot of Methane from bio waste.
Some guys over here in Germany also did it by putting pipes somehow into the waste and collecting the
methane gas and then running an ICE to power a generator.

How much waste does it need to do this ?
How big is the land the neighbour of your cousin is using for this and how many
KiloWatts is he producing this way ?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on November 13, 2007, 12:43:06 PM
Stefan,

Here what's my cousin wrote:

Landfill is 200x200 meters.  He has 2 diesel engines from polish truck Jelcz and 1 generator.  He starts engine on disel oil then switches to gas.  sometimes he runs 1 engine and sometimes 2 at at the same time - that depends on amount of gas he can recover.  There is generator, some sort of transformer and another device before hookup to national grid.  The consistence of gas is unknown to me. 

He did not specify how much energy the guy can produce but I just checked the HP of the engines.  I am not sure which model he has but 1975 model has 185HP; and newer '2000 models are 320HP.  from here you can figure more or less how many KW he is capable to produce.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on November 13, 2007, 11:23:12 PM

[/quote]

There seems to be coming a lot of Methane from bio waste.
Some guys over here in Germany also did it by putting pipes somehow into the waste and collecting the
methane gas and then running an ICE to power a generator.

How much waste does it need to do this ?
How big is the land the neighbour of your cousin is using for this and how many
KiloWatts is he producing this way ?
[/quote]

I went to the Real Goods Solarfest in 2000. A one of the 20 minute teaching sessions a fellow described his system using 2 plastic garbage cans one overturned on top of the other.
Inside he put only grass clippings and small yard cuttings. probably some water too. he collected methane which went from the cans through another container loaded with steel wool to filter out the sulphur. He wrote a book with this in it. No I don't know the name of the book but I think it was a gardening book. sorry.
This is called biogas. It has been collected in an industrial way in India.
google "biogas" and see what you get. It looks good.
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on November 14, 2007, 12:13:03 AM
I have a few results today.

First - and I recommend this to everyone doing this test- I put a fresh battery into my multimeter. These ever so convenient machines compare what they are finding between the probes to an assumed 9 volt constant. So that was the first step.

Yesterday because of the storm I did a little test in the earth ground inside a metal shed. So, with the fresh battery I rechecked my Cu > rebar as it was in the same place as yesterday. and the results were somewhat lower.

Inside shed
Cu > rebar  0.13v
Cu > Zn        0.6v (galvanized 10 penny nail)
Cu > graphite  0.24v (carpenter's pencil - what a great idea, bill)
graphite > Zn  0.9v
Then I went outside. I wondered if being in a metal shed which has a faraday cage effect (it does not allow the signal of cell phones to penetrate) would dampen any aetheric or electromagnetic effects from the schuman cavity,  if that is what we are seeing. I wondered this because Stubbenfield used an antenna for some of his batteries.
outside the shed
graphite > Zn  1.06v (up 0.16v from inside)
Cu > graphite  0.14v (down 0.1 from inside) ???
The only other oddity to report is from disturbing the earth. I couldn't get the graphite deep enough in the ground and I wanted to try getting all these deeper than a few inches so, I dug with a shovel and stuck the pencil into the earth and returned the soil and patted it around the pencil. Now the pencil and the zinc nail were both about 6 inches (15cm) deep.
I guess I forgot to record it but it was almost nothing. something like 0.05v  I won't speculate but this is interesting about disturbing the soil, I think.
One more thing, I checked the voltage between the Zn nail and the graphite pencil around in a circle. and closer than 1 meter apart. There was no change at all  1.06v every time near or far, north/south or east/west .
So, 12 graphite pencils and 12 galvanized nails will give me a 12 volt battery for free. I love it. I am taking a welding class and I will see if I can get some graphite from there.
more later. I think I will try to get 2 sets in series and light a LED. Maybe take a picture.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 14, 2007, 05:37:10 PM
Yes jenna the ground can be used for a return path i found that out trying to run a battery in series with the ground rods i have and the power came through. I do know that telephone lines have a pretty hefty voltage that goes thorough them normally. I never thought it was much until i got bit once.... hurts ;D  In that sense of a return ground i think there has to be a certain ammt of pressure we could say for it to be worthwhile.   I'm still betting the only way to harness useful energy will be with big coils and a ferromagnetic core for a transformer.  I guess what is throwing me is all these patents have a version of a strong inductor or coil wired directly off the electrode but the ends are shorted since they only use one peice of wire.  Now were all measuring dc but for those transformers or coils that are being used it must be a form of ac or that avenue would have been pointless so mabey with 4 electrodes 2 of each, one of each with a wire wrapped around iron or ferrite core so cu > iorncore> zn and cu> ironcore > zn,  wind secondaries  and take those leads to a full wave rectifier. Correct me if i'm wrong, but that should be a 6 diode bridge for full wave as opposed to 4 diode for half wave. I remember subblefields real patent name being along the lines of an em amplifier. Ah ha the  patent description is starting to make more sense. 
"Stubblefield Earth Battery OR Electro-magnetic Induction Amplifier"
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 14, 2007, 06:53:20 PM
@ localjoe:

I have already stated my lack of electronics knowledge in earlier posts.  My question is this...if we use coils, won't that raise the volts (dc) and reduce the amps? (Ohm's law)  Does a rectifier amplify both volts and amps?  I am re-reading my electronics books as we speak but I am behind the curve here.  Carbon rod supposed to arrive this Friday.!!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 14, 2007, 07:35:06 PM
No worries bill ,
           Take this for instance when you pass a magnet over a coil of wire it cuts the flux lines of the magnetic field and induces current in the coil, in this stage its still ac but when we take a 4 diodes and connect these two leads of the coil to opposite sides of the diode bridge the remaining 2 have rectified dc voltage now, that usable ect.  Now I think the difference between a 4 diode bridge and a 6 diode bridge is rectifying half of the ac wave form vs full wave which should rectify the whole wave form.  Hopefully i haven't butchered that description too much but im sure Stefan or others could help further elaborate if needed.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 15, 2007, 01:21:30 AM
Localjoe:

Thanks, yes I understand about the half wave and full wave from the bridge but, what happens to the amps?  Do they go up, down, or stay the same? My local supplier just called and I can pick up my carbon rod in the a.m.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 15, 2007, 02:51:51 AM
@Bill   Different ammounts of turns will affect wether the voltage is stepped up and current lowered or visa versa, in an ac circuit .   For this to work though one needs to use ac or pulsed dc, so it kind explained some of my weird findings with different freq's and there still may be a magnetic component here with the rod exp.  because the voltage produced from the potato battery for instance is straight dc and at minimum what we have measured so far is pulsed dc or something our meters cant really read. so even though we haven't achieved great results yet our findings still indicate that its not just a galvanization reaction going on. Secondly, the Stubblefield cell uses coils even differently so as to have two bi metals wound side by side on a carriage bolt, copper and steel for instance, the copper insulated and the battery has one of each end of wire in the ground and the other two leads produce juice. This one is more along the lines of an electromagnetic plug of sorts that uses the earth magnetic energy and transforms it into what he called secondary current to us that could mean ac or pulsed dc so i hope thats more descriptive. :)
                                                                                                         Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 15, 2007, 06:38:59 AM
Localjoe:

Thanks for the explanation.  As I said, I have been rereading my text books.  So, you think we might be seeing pulsed DC?  That would be very interesting.  Stefan said that, when I got both ac and DC on my meter that typically you can get both.  But why?  I was raised that DC was DC and ac was ac.  Yes, you can use inverters and rectifiers to swap but...at the source, they should be one or the other....right?  Pulsed DC is another matter.  I know nothing about this but it might explain, like you said, Stubblefield's experiments and patents.  We are getting closer.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 15, 2007, 11:21:32 PM
(http://)
(http://)


Here are some quick pics of the carbon rod that I picked up today.  It is 1 inch in diameter (not 3/4" like I thought) and 17 inches long.  It also has striations along the outside edge which would give a little more contact surface area.  It is time to get to work here now.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 16, 2007, 03:46:31 AM
That should leave give a nice voltage tell me how it goes :) And the bedini page with the stubblefield info has some stuff thats useful in understand how the different battery's are doing their thing.
                                                                                                    Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 16, 2007, 04:22:00 AM
The following was copied and pasted from a report on Stubblefield in case some of you have not read it.  sorry, the pictures did not transfer with it.  I really like the part where, when they found he had passed away, his house was heated by to mirrored spheres.  Also, his lights were all powered by the earth. (For free)     Bill


"This may be the last hope when the power systems go down and there is no more fuel..... We will take the power from the ground and learn how to use the earth for the good of all.  This work is based on the book "Lost Science" by Gerry Vassilatos. I have just pointed out the important parts in red, but I have hundreds of hours in the circuit designs. Peter Lindemann pointed out this work to me two years ago. Since then I have worked with the Stubblefield technology and many others.

Go to Peter's pages here  http://www.free-energy.cc/

"After the third tribulation, a new source of energy will be discovered that taps the Earth Magnetic field."

-Hopi Prophecy

Stubblefield

This is my research on Nathan Stubblefield.

"Hello, Rainy." - In 1892, ignorant of the wireless inventions of the past 60 years, Nathan creates an electromagnetic induction wireless telephone and demonstrates it to his friend Rainey Wells. A few years later, Nathan develops a superior wireless telephone that uses natural conduction through the earth and water.

Bob Lochte has done an enormous amount of work uncovering papers, notes and pictures, and quotes on Nathan Stubblefield. There is one puzzling thing to me about the Stubblefield device. It seems to me that Tesla is standing in one of the pictures. I have checked the references and, yes, Tesla is in the picture. Now that I understand this, it brings me to the conclusion that the waves Stubblefield   used were longitudinal in nature.

 Meucci hearing through wires

 

Even without Stubblefield, Marconi still wouldn't be the true inventor of radio - Nikola Tesla invented it before Marconi. Marconi, in fact, used Tesla's own patents as research materials. Tesla, in turn, was among the curious onlookers in attendance at Stubblefield's 1902 wireless demonstration in Philadelphia.



Stubblefield also developed a battery to power this system and a motor,  that we will get into later. Now around 1878  Amos Dolbear files a patent on what he called induction wireless telephone, demonstrated publicly in the us, Canada, and Europe in 1882 and 1883, patented in U.S.1886. What is amazing  to me is that the patent uses an elevated capacitance. So this is not the same as a Hertizan wave transmitter. It is very clear that the capacitance acts as the antenna and the return is using the earth as ground. The induction coil is used as a high self-inductance only, creating a very high  potential or stress in the aether.



"Now," Tesla writes later on about the transmitter that he was developing, "I attacked vigorously the development of my magnifying transmitter, now however, not so much with the original intention of producing one of great power, as with the object of learning how to construct the best one. This is essentially, a circuit of high self-induction and small resistance ( key words coming up) which in its arrangement, mode of excitation and section and action, may be said to be the diametrical opposite of a transmitting circuit typical of telegraphy by Hertzian or electromagnetic radiations."



What Stubblefield had discovered and what he do with his system.

Stubblefield was experimenting with ground radio since 1882, but did not patent his developments until much later. Credible witnesses saw his ground radio experiments in action during this time frame, establishing the historical priority of Stubblefield. While Marconi could barely send telegraphic "dots and dash" signals with great difficulty through a static-filled medium, Nathan Stubblefield had already transmitted the human voice with loud, velvet clarity. Others would adopt and implement the Collins system (Fessenden, DeForest, Bethenod, Braun), but none could duplicate the Stubblefield System.

Nikola Tesla performed double ground experiments with impulses as early as 1892, reporting these in lectures and patenting some embodiments in 1901. Not one of these later systems ever achieved the same results of clarity, tone, and volume of Stubblefield ground telephony. Tesla apparently never discovered the true powerpoints which powered Stubblefield's device. Priority in all these arts belongs to Nathan Stubblefield alone. In addition, his was the only system in which natural energies were obtained, magnified, and entirely employed as the empowering source. All other inventors used "artificial" sources (batteries, alternators, dynamos).



Following all these ground radio demonstrations, Stubblefield researched "Magnetic Waves" and developed several systems which did not use ground terminals for exchanging signals. Long distance wireless telephone communications were his aim. Many imagined this to be radio as we know it, but several features of Stubblefield aerial are distinctive and different.

First his transmitters and receivers were telephonic, not telegraphic. In his preliminary experiments, the earth battery was used to energize an apparatus to which was connected a long horizontal aerial line. Marconi later adopted this "bent L" symmetry in conjunction with a grounded copper conduction screen. There are no photographs of these arrays, but I have hand-written manuscript copies of certain diary notes in which a progressively greater telephonic distance is reported. Nathan Stubblefield made steady progress in this form of telephonic transmission , but used neither alternators nor spark discharge.

Mr. Stubblefield reasoned that, since electrical waves traverse the whole earth, it might be possible to send signals to distant places. These ground-permeating natural electrical waves might serve as carriers for the human voice. The ground would act as both power generator and signal conductor. Like a gale carrying messages downwind, these electrical waves could bring wireless communications instantly to any part of the world.

These  transmissions were made through the ground itself and used the Stubblefield cell for power. In several photographs we see special   loud speaking telephones outfitted with (1 foot) horns, designed to act as annunciators. Calls from these annunciators brought his son Bernard to the telephone transmitter. The system was never switched off. Power was limitless and did not diminish with time of the day or length of use.

 

Natural observations in systems led to unexpected, theory-busting discoveries. Such an effect demonstrates that an articulate quasi-intelligent energy permeates the natural environment.... an energy of which electricity is a minor part.

Two more mysteries have lingered from this latter period of invention in the Stubblefield biography. The nature of each reveals the extent to which he had developed and advanced his new earth power technology. Nathan continued to pursue his experiments, but little was seen of him for long time periods. Alone and tired, Nathan stopped working his farm completely.

Later, Investigators entered his land area and found heavy wires leading from the roots of trees. To these wires were attached small arc lamps, hung in the trees. These were extinguished. They imagined the arc lamps to be the explanation of his hillside sunlight. Their hasty analysis proved problematic from stories which witnesses report. The warm and diffused sunlight which came from the ground itself around his house was not localized in specific lamps. The light came from the ground, not from the trees as before... a "whole hillside that would blossom with light"... "lit up like daytime". These observations indicate that Stubblefield had managed indeed the direct conversion of earth energy to light and warmth. This would acceptable, were Mr. Stubblefield simply working on a newer form of drawing electricity from the ground to light small arc-lamps; a feat which he had accomplished earlier. But  these kind persons could never find any evidence of arc-lighting or any other form of known lighting anywhere near the area. In their own words "the light seemed to come out from the ground itself".

In addition to ground sunlight effects, many heard very loud and unfamiliar noises coming from the whole area surrounding his cabin. What could this be? Had he managed to directly transduce the natural impulses of the ground energy into audio?

His last claim two weeks before his death was made to a kind neighbor: "The past is nothing. I have perfected now the greatest invention the world has ever known..... I have taken light from the air and earth.... as I did sound."

Neighbors had not seen Nathan for several days. As they were worried about his health, they attempted to call on him. The lock was secured from the inside. It was a lonely, cold and rainy March day when old friends and neighbors broke the lock on Nathan's cabin and entered. He had passed away in his bed,  the probable victim of malnutrition and fatigue. They all noticed that the interior of the cabin was "toasty warm", as if heated by a strong fire. Moved to locate the source of this heat, town officials found " two highly polished metal mirrors which faced each other, radiating a very great heat in rippling waves"  This is a great discovery. It fulfills what Nathan reported in his last testimony.



This picture was sent in by Gandolf Gwynn.

He wanted to know who was hiding behind the tree?

The man behind the tree is Dr. Will Mason.



The rods in the picture are about 20 feet apart in a straight line. Nathan Stubblefield receiving a  message.



Nathan Stubblefield used earth magnetic currents. this is not current as we know it. Electricity is a wasted product of this magnetic current.



The Electrical Ocean.

If you are building an earth battery it is best to do it as the patent calls out. This means that you should not use anything that causes a forced voltage. It was not until later that people used sulfur cakes and other acids to get the voltage higher with bigger currents. That is a phony system and not Free Energy.





Alexander Bain

We found a good number of earth battery designs in the Patent Registry. The earliest designs appear in 1841 when Alexander Bain applied the phenomenon to telegraphy. While working a telegraph line, he chanced to discover that his leads had become immersed in water. This short-circuit through earthed water did not stop the actions which resounded through his system. Mr. Bain took the next step to greater distance, burying copper plates and zinc plates with a mile of ground between them. When connected to a telegraph line, these performed remarkably well without any other battery assistance. Bain obtained the patent for his earth battery years after his initial discovery (1841), using it to drive telegraph systems and clocks. (real free energy system using earth energy only)



Stephen Vail (1837) observed the same effect, not knowing what caused it. The establishment of the first functional telegraph line seemed to require even fewer batteries with time. Vail began with some twelve large battery cups, reducing them gradually until only two were needed. There came a point during certain operative seasons where he found it possible to remove all the batteries!

J.W. Wilkins in England (1845) corroborated findings made by Bain, developing a similar earth battery for use in telegraphic service. An early English Patent appears in 1864 by John Haworth, the first true composite earth battery. This battery is drum-shaped , having numerous solid discs mounted on an insulative axis, end-braced, and buried. Their power was rated in terms of disc diameter and telegraph line distance: one foot diameter discs for seventy-five miles of line, two foot discs for up to four hundred and forty miles of line.



Composite earth battery



Experimental modulated earth battery

The experiment is to modulate the earth current.  It works just like a modulated current source in a solid state amplifier, only this battery supplies the current. An example would be a strain gauge circuit.



 

This mystery persisted for years. I have talked to some older engineers who report that local telegraph stations remained in operation despite the fact that their batteries had not been recharged for a great number of years. When the battery was examined it was actually dried out and physically corroded. Yet the signals continued.

In devices called "radionic" tuners by those who developed them, numerous investigations revealed the potentials of ground energy for social use. Agricultural applications of radionic tuners produced greater crop yields. Moreover, large ground-connected radionic tuners produced extraordinary effects on the mind and emotions.... relieving tensions and opening thought to new potentials. From this viewpoint, telegraph systems behaved as radionic tuners on a vast scale. We would therefore expect them to produce anomalous energetic effects in several parameters of human experience.

 Cosmo-Electro Culture, The Cosmic Forces





Test amplifier to transmit low power signals into the ground





Receiver amplifier  with 60Hz notch filter.

In my test of an "earth battery system using grounding rods", when transmitting audio frequencies the weeds grew wildly. The normal weeds were so big that it took a tractor to cut them down.... It was found that tubes work the best.

 Ground Radio

Let's try an experiment in earth energies.

Touching a well-grounded iron rod is a good first experiment to try in these regards. Try and find a place where power leakage into the ground is minimal..... such as in a park or wooded area. Take a yard-long solid iron rod whose surface is free of shellac or insulator coatings. Carefully drive the rod into the ground with a hammer. Wetted hands on the iron should produce a mild electrical sensation. These voltages may be measured. They "pin" sensitive galvanometers. The current does not cease after several weeks of activity, when the rods are properly placed.

Most recognized that electricity was simply a by-product or epiphenomenon of a more fundamental agency which entered the grounded lines. Rheostats somehow "tuned" the potential of this earth energy. It was found possible to "match and tune" these energies through the use of rheostats and capacitors.  (medical connection)  Persons who were weak and infirm actually experienced vitalizing elevations when connected to the ground energy through these special rheostatic tuners."


 

 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 16, 2007, 04:39:42 AM
Stubblefield continued.....

Bill

"We do not know the secret of the earth charge as Nathan Stubblefield determined it. Others since his time have observed fluctuations at certain times of the year in ground energy. It may be that a sudden induction is required before the excess ground charge surges  to the surface..... like priming a pump.

So I did some experiments in building different types of cells. I used a 10 inch carriage bolt 3/4 inch diameter between two delron spacers. I used steel wire and copper wire that was coated. I would wind one layer and sand it off, check for shorts,  and then wrap it with gauze and start the next winding. I then put the secondary induction coil windings on.



These are the results I got in a one gallon plastic jug filled with water. Volts .07,  250ma into dead short through meter shunt. I'm still working on a better cell to go into the ground at this time.



Stubblefield published an extraordinary brochure in 1898 to attract investors who had expressed interest in consolidating a small corporation around his work. In this brochure, Stubblefield insisted that power for his device was not generated in the cell. He calmly stated that the cell received its surplus energy from the earth. In a less discussed portion of the brochure, Stubblefield stated that "electrotherapeutic" devices had been developed from his earth battery. Other researchers made similar claims for their earth batteries (Hicks, Mellon). During this time, Stubblefield declared that news, weather, and other announcements could be broadcast through the ground across a great territory for private reception. He also added that simultaneous messages and news of all kinds would soon be transmitted through the ground from a central distribution station. (Shades of Tesla!)

In 1902 Stubblefield set up one of his sets in a "Mainstreet" upper office... in a hardware shop. From that point to his farm (some 6000 feet distant) he conducted continuous conversations with his son Bernard. Tapping with a pencil on his one-piece transceiver, Bernard was quickly heard in a loud, very clear voice. This transceiver was a carbon button placed in a tin snuff box. Speech and response were transacted through the same device, which acted as both microphone and loudspeaker. Cells (EARTH BATTERIES) were placed downstairs from the office in the ground. They were never removed and never wore out, though operating twenty-four hours a day around the clock.

Nathan Stubblefield offered to construct a large scale power station for the town of Murray. His quoted initial installation costs were estimated at five thousand dollars. The town politicians declined the offer. As a result, the  technique of drawing up electricity from the earth remains a mystery.



The Stubblefield ground radio system was demonstrated for approximately one thousand Murray residents. Photographs of Stubblefield and his family, and a good crowd of witnesses from town, show the cell laying on the ground among all his assembled inventions; and a flower-pot sized coil of good volume. Other devices show motors and large capacitor stacks for aerial voice transmission experiments.

Stubblefield declares it to be an "energy receiver....a receptive cell for intercepting electrical ground waves". Its conductive ability somehow absorbs and directs the enormous volumes of earth energy.

Whether the current derived from this cell is electricity as we know it has been questioned. One indicator is not found when considering his use of the energy in lighting lamps. With this energy Nathan Stubblefield operated a score of arc lamps at full brightness for twenty-four hours a day. There was a definite trigger by which this energy was stimulated and maintained.

The induction coil which bears his name is equipped with three coils which are wrapped around and upon a heavy iron core. Bare iron wire and cotton-covered copper wire are wrapped side by side, comprising a primary coil body. Each layer of the primary coil  body is covered by a band of cotton insulation, bringing four wire leads to the coil terminus. Two leads of iron and two of copper are external to the coil. Commercial electrical power is obtained through these connective terminals.

In addition to this bimetallic winding, there is a third winding: the "secondary". This third coil is insulated from the primary bimetallic coil, serving as a trigger device. Presumably, a stimulating impulse shock was introduced into the tertiary coil, after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils.

Electrolytically (as a battery in acid or saltwater) the Stubblefield coil is disappointing, producing less then one volt according to those who have duplicated its construction. Stubblefield's bimetallic coil was a "plug": a receiver which intercepts the vast and free electrical reservoir of the ground itself. His patent and subsequent company brochures define the manner in which his earth battery was to be activated.

Technically, the Stubblefield device is a modified thermocouple (a bimetal in tight surface contact) but a thermocouple could not supply the degree of  power which he reported. While this arrangement could develop a few milliwatts of power in appropriately hot ground spots, the thermoelectric explanation of the device cannot explain the phenomenal output reported in the news reports of Stubblefield's demonstrations.

Furthermore, though the Stubblefield power receiver is wound like an induction coil, it produces a steady direct current output. This poses additional problems for the conventional engineer. Electrical induction only occurs with electrical alternations, oscillations, and impulses.



Nathan and Bernard Stubblefield, with wireless telephone

January 1, 1902

Witnesses describe ground-powered motors which ran unceasingly and unattended for months without need for replacing or replenishing the ground battery. Small machinery, clocks, and loud gongs were run by other ground-buried cells as reported by credible witnesses. Stubblefield may have discovered the auto-magnifying voltage effect of electrostatic induction in coils before Tesla,  who later utilized the effect in his special electrostatic Transformers.



Is this the first induction pulse motor?

These buried coils may have become saturated with earth electrostatic energy, which travelled from subterranean depths. In such a case, the mere battery power of the coil was replaced by the electrostatic flow, the coil acting as an electrode. This seems obvious when considering the fact that its ordinary battery current (1 watt) was gradually replaced by continually growing electrical current of far greater proportion.



 

Observations made at Pittsburgh, Pa., communicated by E.W. CULGAN,
Telegraph manager.
During  Aug. 28th the intensity of the current evolved from it varied very much, being at times no stronger than an ordinary battery, and then suddenly changing the poles of the magnets it would sweep through them, charging them to their utmost capacity, and compelling a cessation of work while it continued.
On the morning of Sept. 2d, at my request the Philadelphia operator detached his battery, mine being already off. We then worked with each other at intervals as long as the auroral current continued, which varied from thirty to ninety seconds. During these working intervals we exchanged messages with much satisfaction, and we worked more steadily when the batteries were off than when they were attached.
On the night of Aug. 28th the batteries were attached, and on breaking the circuit there were seen not only sparks (that do not appear in the normal condition of a working line) but at intervals regular streams of fire, which, had they been permitted to last more than an instant, would certainly have fused the platinum points of the key, and the helices became so hot that the hand could not be kept on them. These effects could not have produced by the batteries.?

In 1876, the American Alexander Graham Bell succeeded in developing a practical telephone. The first telephones functioned so that a telephone receiver was installed at both ends of a wire. The earth functioned as the return wire. Batteries were not necessary because the telephone receiver's permanent magnet produced an electrical current in the coil when a magnetically conductive membrane was activated by speech. Finland's first telephone connection was built during December of 1877 in Helsinki."

 


Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 17, 2007, 12:38:24 AM
Some measurments from today's activities with the carbon rod


+ side to the north 1"dia x 17" long carbon rod stuck in the ground 11" deep.
- side aligned on the n/s meridian 3" long magnesium block stuck 2" deep into the ground 4 feet to the south.

1.6 vdc          2.62 vac             1.1 milliamps


+ side to the north same as above
- side to the south 1/4 inch steel rod x 18 inches long inserted into the ground 15 inches deep. 3 feet apart.

1.1 vdc           1.5vac              2.6 milliamps

The first set-up was able to light an led rated at 1.7 volts and 20 mA.  It was not very bright so I hooked up a small capacitor which charged from the earth and that lights the led up very nicely.  I did not leave it hooked up very long as it was all temporary the way I did just for testing.  More work and results to follow.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 17, 2007, 02:47:08 AM
Bill,

Great work on the experiments.  I'm looking forward to your results.  Do you notice any difference when you bury the rods horizontally?

As for the stubblefield coil, is anyone able/interested to try and build one?  It would be interesting to speculate on the nature of the triggering mechanism.  Possible some magnetic flux generated in the iron coil?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 17, 2007, 05:18:59 AM
G'day all,

Thanks to localjoe I had another look at Stubblefield's patent. I remembered having put it aside years ago because of the many contradictions it contains.

This time I read it with a different kind of mindset, if you wish, and since learning its history, which was unknown to me then, I am coming to the conclusion there is far more to this device than is obvious.

It is interesting to note that Stubblefield was a contemporary of Keely and undoubtedly aware of Keely's work.

I am preparing a short paper on the device which I will post here when it is done.

In the meantime I am posting the original patent so everyone can have a look at it.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 17, 2007, 06:04:44 AM
Hans:

We appreciate your input.  I didn't know about Stubblefield possibly knowing about Keely's work, this is very interesting.  I am not that far (1.5 hours) from where Stubblefield was living (Murry, KY) so maybe I should investigate and speak with some older people there that might know something about him and his work.  Probably second hand information but, better than nothing.

I look forward to your paper.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: FreeEnergy on November 17, 2007, 10:26:26 AM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BmNoLfjIEac

----------------------------------------description:
This is a demonstration of Nathan Stubblefield's invention, the Earth Cell Battery, patented in 1898 (patent no 600,457). It is a coil that when immersed in the earth's surface taps telluric currents of the earth that can be read with a voltimeter. This is a demonstration only, so please take note of the deepness of the hole that was dug, which was about 11 or 12 inches deep, as large tree roots were below. Also notice the Secondary winding on the battery is not complete, as I was running out of time and needed to get it in the ground before it got dark. This was a camping trip in Grand Rivers, Kentucky. I felt this location to be a great start for my experiment, as the battery's origin was approximately 30 miles south, in Murray, Kentucky. Please excuse the shakiness of the camera, this experiment was performed on a fairly steep hill, it was hard to keep my balance!
This battery is comprised of concentric windings of uninsulated steel wire and insulated copper speaker wire (the speaker wire was a theory of mine that I thought would be suitable for this application, as it has multiple strands of copper wire). I used sterile gauze as insulation in between each layer of windings (including initially in between the 10" bolt and the first winding). The point is to not let the steel wire touch any part of itself as it is being wound. The spacers used are 2" x ?" vinyl with holes drilled through for the four terminals.
As you can see, the initial voltage reading, dry, above ground, is .08v.
Next voltage reading, dry, underground, is .41v.
I poured a bucket of water over the area and waited a few minutes (water acts as an electrolyte). I tested the battery not on film, it was .91v. A moment later I tested it once more while filming, it was .88v.
2 hours later, I did a final testing, it was .92v. I then removed the battery from the ground and put it in a bucket of water, the voltage reading was much lower than when it was in the ground, about .82v. The ammeter function in my multimeter is busted as I found out during the tests, so I could not take a reading on the current, which sucks. One thing I forgot to film is that when the terminals were switched, the DC voltage reading was also switched to negative of the same values. For positive readings, the copper is plus and the steel is minus. This is a fairly simple and cheap project, so do some research and have fun!
The last clip of this film was taken in Murray, Kentucky, as I am currently looking for a new home and good graduate program. The statue is of Rainey Wells, a man that attended many of Stubblefield's demonstrations of his wireless telephone. I say "hello, Rainey" because these were the first words heard by Wells from Stubblefield during a demonstration in 1892. Rainey Wells was 17 years old at this time. The building in the background is the Forrest Pogue Library, an archive of information on Stubblefield and his work. The inscription on the building reads, "The Whole World Here Unlocks the Experience of the Past." The Nathan Stubblefield memorial is west of this location of the Murray State University campus.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 17, 2007, 10:39:52 AM
This is fantastic Bill,

From what I can gather there is a small local museum where some of Stubblefield's equipment is kept, some of which is not understood by anyone.

This is turning into a fascinating research project, there is some really unexpected stuff turning up.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 17, 2007, 06:12:21 PM
Feild Trip ;D
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 18, 2007, 02:41:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY)


Above is a link to a video I just posted to youtube on today's experiments.  I noticed I made a mistake when speaking of the amps, I said millivolts when I meant to say milliamps. (mA)  My led is still buring at this time.  This is so cool to be able to extract some energy from the earth like this.  Our experimentation continues.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 18, 2007, 04:31:34 AM
Led is still illuminated.

@akashh:

Thanks.  No, I have not tried any horizontal testing as of yet. I have to admit, it would be easier to dig a trench than try to force a fragile rod into the earth.  I think anything is possible here and deserves testing. I think now there will be a growing interest in the Stubblefield type coils experiments.  Maybe I can take an antenna coil and core from an old a.m. radio and play with that.  This is fun.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on November 18, 2007, 04:46:59 AM
Pirate Bill,

This is way to cool!!

Tomorrow I am going to do some experimenting. (all I have is just a copper and aluminum tubes).    I hope you are not going to discharge the earth completely by tomorrow morning! :)

George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 18, 2007, 04:49:14 AM
After having read Stubblefield's earth battery patent carefully it seems to me to be nothing other than a water battery that uses damp soil as an electrolyte.  However, what seems interesting is the use of the secondary coil.  He says that sufficient energy may be produced by means of this coil.  I am guessing that magnetically it works similar to any transformer.  So if we would have 100  turns of primary (iron-copper couple) and say 1000 turns on the secondary, voltage would be 10 X. 
Bedini says he thinks the secondary is a trigger coil, but that's not in the patent.  I would imagine on the contrary that the primary coil could be triggered via some sort of pulse to create a large magnetic field.  Who knows how this would resonate once inside the earth, but if one were constantly extracting energy the earth may interact with the coil beyond pure galvanics after the application of the initial pulse.
Does this sound absurd?  I am unable to build this at the moment but in a few weeks I'll be able to do so...
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 18, 2007, 06:52:28 AM
@ akashh:

I think we have shown results thus far that put this beyond pure galvanic reaction.  How far beyond is up to debate.  If it were just galvanic than the closer the electrodes, the better the power which has not been the case for me.  Plus, when it rains, my voltage drops and I get much better as the ground dries out.  If you read in the earlier posts about the old telegraph stations, their "electrodes" were hundreds of miles apart, how would pure galvanic reaction apply to this?

If you look at my video I posted earlier, you can see my electrodes are about 4 feet apart.  I have not tried 5 feet yet but 4 feet was better than 3 feet, etc. Another point to consider, if just galvanic then why would an alignment of n/s on the meridian make any difference at all? (Which it clearly did for me)

Don't think for a moment that I claim to know all of what this is about, I don't.  But, I am gathering information along the way that will help me to decide what it isn't.  Do I think that galvanic reaction plays a part in all of this?  Yes, I do, which is why I purchased the carbon rod.  I did get some smaller voltages off of two copper pipes once they were aligned on the n/s meridian but not as much as I am getting now.  I am not totally sure of this but if you made a regular battery with two copper electrodes I don't think it would have any voltage.  there is so much more here than we know right now.

I like your suggestion of the coil to step up the voltage but, and here is my ignorance showing, will that not cut the amps proportionately as in Ohm's law?  If not, this would be the way to go...also a series hookup of multiple electrodes to add the voltages and the amps is something I intend to explore.  Keep us posted of your efforts once you begin. there are possibly a lot of variables here and we need a lot of people experimenting to make some sense of this.

@ George:

Good luck with your efforts, keep us posted.  I'll try to leave a few volts in the earth for you. (grin)

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 18, 2007, 10:04:37 AM
I think we have shown results thus far that put this beyond pure galvanic reaction.  How far beyond is up to debate.  If it were just galvanic than the closer the electrodes, the better the power which has not been the case for me.  Plus, when it rains, my voltage drops and I get much better as the ground dries out.

G'day Bill,

You are absolutely right, galvanic action has little, if anything, to do with it. There are forces here at work that are at present poorly understood. Stubblefield and some others knew this. For some reason they were not allowed to mention these phenomena in their patents. There are at least two patents that allude to it, I will cover this in my paper.

I am in two minds as to how I should proceed from here. This looks like a fairly lengthy inquiry and I don't know if I should post my findings in dribs and drabs as it were or if I should wait until the paper is finished before I post.

Posting in bits and pieces has the advantage of outside input, bits and pieces as they occur is very frustrating for the reader.

I leave it to you guys, whatever you want me to do, you've got it.

Hans von Lieven

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: FreeEnergy on November 18, 2007, 10:21:20 AM
it don't matter, post whatever you have now and whatever you post later we can always compare ;)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 18, 2007, 10:42:34 AM
Nathan B. Stubblefield   1860 - 1928



It was many years ago when I first came across Nathan Stubblefield?s patent for an ?Earth Battery?.  This was in the days before the internet,  when looking up patents was a time and money consuming business and all you got was the patent. I cannot remember exactly why I purchased it, the most likely reason being that it was cited in another patent I was researching at the time. I didn?t know who Stubblefield was and what he had done other than acquire a patent.

So I took the patent at face value. It didn?t make sense.

It describes a device which uses a copper coil wound together with an iron coil side by side which is immersed in water. So far so good. The water as an electrolyte would cause the iron and copper to react with each other creating a galvanic element capable of generating electricity. Next he tells us that the copper wire must be insulated! From the iron wire! He also states that insulating the iron wire has no detrimental effect on the operation of the device.

There is no way a galvanic action can take place between insulated wires, no matter what the electrolyte.

And if that is not enough he tells us that one can put a secondary coil over the contraption and extract power from it.

This is impossible. A galvanic cell produces direct current ( DC ). You can wind as many coils as you want around a battery and no current will flow in that coil. It needs to be either an alternating current ( AC  ) or a pulsed DC do induce a current in this coil.

Even at that stage I had a drawer full of patents of unworkable and impossible devices which had been sanctioned by patent examiners and I decided it was one of those and disregarded it.

A few days ago Localjoe brought Stubblefield up in a discussion on earth batteries and I vaguely remembered the patent and my reaction to it.

Years ago, when I discovered that I could retrieve any patent I needed at the touch of a button through the internet I had discarded two filing cabinets full of patents, so I could not look the patent up in my own records. This was fortuitous.

In order to retrieve the patent to refresh my memory I had to do a search on Stubblefield. This for the first time gave me some knowledge about the man.

To my surprise he was not the kind of backyard idiot patenting an impossible device he thought would work based on ignorance of the underlying scientific principles as I had assumed, but a man of considerable achievement and learning.

He was also a close friend of Tesla and a contemporary of Keely.

The clincher came when I read this:
Nathan Stubblefield took out a patent for the earth-battery, except, the patent-office demanded he call it "Earth Battery", Stubblefield wanted to call it "Electro-magnetic Induction Amplifier".  (Source Wikipedia)

This explained a number of things.

I believe what happened is that the USPTO rejected his original application and forced a number of changes. By having to call it a battery he now had to make it look like one in order to get his patent.

This is why there are two contradictory descriptions of the device in the same patent.

He complied with the requests but left the real idea behind the device in place, hence the confusion.

That the device worked, of that there is no doubt.

He ran massive installations of electrical equipment on these batteries as the only power source for years, he operated a whole local telephone system on it. There are photographs of his various devices, I even found a photograph that shows his ?earth batteries?.

So what was he doing and how did the device work?

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode.

Hans von Lieven

Sorry guys, but you wanted it this way  ;D




Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: tishatang on November 18, 2007, 11:20:06 AM
Hi all,

This is a subject close to my heart.  I am not in a position now to do any experiments, but I am enclosing a link to a related subject, underground antennas.  This is by Gerry Vassilatos  who wrote about Stubblefield in his book  "Lost Science".

It seems telluric currents are biodynamic.  That is, they respond to our mental attention.  Here is the link:

http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/ground-ant.htm

It is rather long, but a good read into the nature of underground currents and how they respond to our wishes.  Here is a short quote:

                       "OBSERVATION 3
There are other effects one notices, especially when tuning faint stations with ground antennas. It seems that tuned stations actually become stronger in the act of being heard, a bizarre effect requiring fine order readjustments. Indeed, continued reception of faint stations evidence definite auto-magnification effects. Obtained only through the use of analogue (variable capacity) tuning systems, the tuning process seemingly magnifies the strength of any faintly received signal. One may thus begin with a signal "granule", and end with a booming volume. Such entuned signal growth only occurs with continued attentive reception, a remarkable phenomenon in which receivers literally draw and automagnify signals on demand of the listening site. This strange connective "supply-response" function does not occur without human agency however. In absence of the human "recipient", no such amplification occurs, a curiosity which will find numerous skeptics and critics. But try the experiment for yourself.

Tune a weak station and leave the room. The signal fades away. Walk in again and quickly tune the signal. Walk away once more. The signal fades. Once more, tune the signal and walk back from the receiver. With very minor waverings, the signal strength will remain unchanged...until you walk directly before the receiver. Stay this time. Tune the signal and wait. You will literally hear the signal gradually rising in volume. The faint signal will gradually, almost perceptibly, grow in strength for you as you remain in the room. Now tune the signal carefully, rocking the dial to the left or right of center. Each readjustment raises the signal strength, until the volume is strong. Periodic minor adjustments will reveal a remarkable volume magnification, one which can reach enormous and fixed volume levels. This observation takes time and patience. With such patience, one can thus literally obtain a "signal bonfire" from a "signal spark". We have observed a signal increase while attentions are being focussed on the signal, with a subsequent complete fade back to faintness after the recipients have been removed.

Why can you tune such a weak station, periodically making "fine adjustments", and obtain a signal magnification? Tuning a weak signal through a ground antenna, and then observing the manner in which that signal actually "grows" in strength for a human recipient, is a demonstration of radionic significance. The same has been observed when radionic currents are selected through tuning instruments, and allowed to stimulate a biomonitored plant. The results are always the same, plant responses indicating the gradual increase of radionic current strength. Unlike aerial currents, ground signals are more intensely radionic in nature. They actively seek to infuse appropriate bio-organismic "capacities". Ground currents enter the receiver and are there entuned. The receiving circuit projects an infusive and thready auric radiance which floods the listening space until its natural saturation has been reached.

Those who are in the listening space add an additional absorptivity, a capacity to allow a continued projection of auric emanations. This continued projectivity into proximal recipients produces several characteristic attributes. Recipients who possess an innate desire, an emotional response for the signals, produce sudden surges in the reception strength. When attention is strongly focussed on some faint signal, then it will grow. The ground emerging signals will therefore intensify for you and those with you in a room, pouring into the listening space and being thus articulated among human "capacities". As radio signals are loaded with the articulation of human attention, the signal will grow more rapidly. It has recently been observed that the very same signal, when later left unattended, will fade back into the crashing background. Desirous attempts made to relocate and raise the same signal are not unsuccessful. The absence of appropriate numbers in the human recipients will modify the rapidity of signal growth. The humanly guided tuning process which engages such signals actually entunes the recipients in a radionic manner.

The refinement and entunement of such signals are very obviously a radionic phenomenon of the deepest significance. Entuned magnification effects are therefore radionic entunement effects, the magnification of human articulations by human recipients. Neither electrical nor radio currents possess the articulate nature capable of exhibiting such a detailed biodynamic function. We have previously demonstrated this phenomenon with biomonitored plants, an effect which experimenters may easily reproduce. The implications of this strange effect are enormous for the theoretician. They compel the examination of every notion of radiosignal causality. The only researcher who has treated this effect is Eric Dollard, whose excellent work describes "energy reciprocation" between Tesla impulse transmitters and receivers.

The fact that signals may be drawn from ground on human demand, and automagnified by human presence, should provoke heated debate. How can one explain the veritable control of a distant transmitter by a small receiver? In a biodynamic sense, we are not required to address distant transmitters, since ground currents automagnify with regularity. The additional energy which feeds radionically entuned and capacity-demanded ground signals is sourced within the great subterranean depths."

*********

I think Stubblefield had a strong mental connection with these forces.  I suggest experimenters be patient and leave their projects buried over a longer period of time and mentally suggest the voltages grow to a more usable level.  Nothing to lose by using some extra will power.

It might be worth trying a variable capacitor out of an old radio in some sort of tank circuit to fine tune the AC component of the output?  That would be similar to the experiments within the referenced article.

Hope this helps,
Tishatang


Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 18, 2007, 12:27:58 PM
@hans:  Thanks for the insights into the Stubble field patent.  Please do keep you posts coming since this seems to be a 'hot' topic.  Let's keep up the energy. 

In the stubblefield coil, you are right that the insulated copper doesn't make sense.  And more so when he states that the battery is electrolytically activated with water - what effect would that have other than shorting out the iron coil?  It would seem that the iron coil closely follows the copper one to take maximum flux from it - would that then interact with the central bolt? 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 18, 2007, 06:18:30 PM
Double post see below
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 18, 2007, 06:18:37 PM
@Tisha Tang Um would that have anything to do with our bodies being good radiation absorbers since theres a lot of water in us?   And i have read up on the geomancy topic, i just feel it would distract this frourm, from its inital goal untlil the later stages of testing with a working device  when were hunting in different areas for current density. But for now most of us are using rods and maybe just endeavoring with the transformer avenue.(Some earth battery patents show plates directly connected to small transformers and or electromagnetic induction coils.

 @ Hans V, thanks for the input, I really respect your input and your generation talking the time to help our up and coming one.  Most anything I have found on the stubblefield cell shows people stopping at the bimetal winding, now either they didn't look at the patent close enough and wind the secondary around it like it says or some of the info is dissinfo out there because it would not seem to be anything more than a weird thermocouple unless the power came off that secondary coil. The steel and copper wraps under  i think keep some kinda pulse train going from the steel getting mildly magnetized and the copper inducting that flux and then i dunno from there, but there has to be some effect so as the copper transfers its flux back to the steel wire and keeps cycling.  So by having two bimetals such as these, the copper and steel interacting, it  must be creating a rotating magnetic field there fore the secondary could provide polarized ac or pulsed dc , or as the patents says word for word " Secondary Current" .  This is the logic structure im working from when i build the stubblefiled plug.  I've been real busy doing computer work around town so i haven't posted any results lately but i have a spreadsheet here with plenty of fields that im going to put the data in so whatever you want to post is fine im just going through all the pages in the forum organizing the data so we can compare. Earlier in the thread Hans, I posted a basic measurement request from the experiments and whatever folks have the equipment to provide readings for is appreciated.   ;D
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 18, 2007, 06:48:16 PM
G'day localjoe and all,

I know the idea has been bandied around that the Stubblefield coil is a sort of thermocouple. This cannot be with these specifications. In a thermocouple the dissimilar metals have to be in metallic contact with each other, something the patent states explicitly to avoid!

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 18, 2007, 07:33:58 PM
Hello all:

Here are some quick pictures.  The "close-ups" I attemped in the video did not work out so well. I shot it using the video mode on my digital still camera, not the best set-up.  the first should be a picture of the magnesium fire starter block in the ground on the south end.  The next is the carbon rod at the north.  The third is the led/capacitor setup.  These should be more clear than the video.

@Hans:

Yes, by all means, publish your info as you write it/obtain it.  This will give us all more to think about and experiment with while you are continuing to research.  I very much look forward to reading your input.

Right now, I am trying to learn more about coils and their operation and functions.  A point I see cropping up again and again is the "priming the pump" technique of inputting some energy into the earth which attract/produces/releases a lot more energy.

@Stefan:

I put in a plug for this website on my youtube video.  I didn't think you would mind.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 18, 2007, 08:27:32 PM
Hans your right about the thermocouple i wasen't thinking clearly but i did read that one end of each steel and copper should be exposed in the ground ... I couldnt find what it said to do with the other two ends on top ... now if we connected those ends on top to the plates or rods were using .. take bill's example with the magnesium and the carbon.  The initial voltage induced by the rods goes through the coil then the two ends on the bottom in the earth might complete the circuit making an electromagnet. This could be way off but getting the results were getting now with just simple things and realizing that it is polarized ac or pulsed dc then feeding that into this bimetal coil should make a rotating magnetic feild if the ends in the earth are shorted.  Now after realizing i can run a battery in series with the ground rods we've been using and still get the power out on the other side it would be safe to say that two metals such as iron and copper  can form a link or path in the ground.  I feel that once we understand how the rotating magnetic feild is created in the primary bimetal coil it will be a little more obvious how this plug works and should be easier to understand.   
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 18, 2007, 09:26:19 PM
Stubblefield continued:

Before we analyse Stubblefield?s device we must digress here for a moment, for any analysis would not be complete unless we looked at the precursor of the idea.

In 1875 James Chapman Bryan patented an Earth battery which is similar in concept to Stubblefield?s. It is certain that Stubblefield was aware of the patent since he had to list it as ?prior art? in his patent application.

Modern patents list all prior art that had been quoted, on the old patents this is not the case. Nevertheless the requirement to disclose prior art was a requirement then as it is now.

What is here of immense interest to me is that Bryan was a resident of Philadelphia when he applied for his patent. It is certain that Bryan was aware of Keely?s work. I doubt that there would have been any person that did nor know about Keely in Philadelphia in 1875, during these years Keely was big news and his activities were regularly reported.

There are any number of patents on earth batteries, all relying on a galvanic action. Only two of these patents are different in character. Bryan?s and Stubblefield?s.

So what are these differences?

In the other patents two dissimilar metals were buried in the ground which were connected to insulated wires. The moisture in the ground acts as an electrolyte and a direct current develops between the different metals. I will not explain here how galvanic action works, I assume that the readers here in the forum are familiar with it.

The important part is that the resultant current is DC !

DC when connected to a coil generates a magnetic field. THIS FIELD IS STATIC !

As long as the current flows the field exists, when the current is withdrawn the field collapses. We call this an electromagnet.

All other patents accept this as given, Bryan?s and Stubblefield?s DO NOT !


(http://www.keelytech.com/overunity/earthbatteries.gif)


The obvious difference between these devices and the standard approach is that here we have SECONDARY COILS !

Both Bryan and Stubblefield are clearly expecting an oscillating field of some sort that energises these secondary coils. So where are these oscillations coming from? Not from any galvanic action, that is certain.

To analyse this we must have a look next at Keely and Leedskalnin.

This will be discussed in the next exciting chapter  :D

Hans von Lieven


EDIT Sorry guys, forgot to attach Bryan's patent. Here it is:
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 18, 2007, 10:37:49 PM
Hans i don't know if you saw it but i took a freq reading and i posted results some depths were 40 hz some were 60. How would DC give a freq reading? Thats what brought me to the conclusion that using the rods we have as the power source would create a rotating magnetic field as opposed to a static dc one.  Now on the topic of the secondary copper coil wound around the whole plug i know there were reports of it having dc output but his patent and other places refer to the output of this cell as secondary current. We do know that some power tools will run off dc and other assorted ac items so maybe somebody got confused along the lines and called it dc when in essence it was polarized ac or pulsed dc.  I could be wrong but after reading all the postings here on this forum and evaluating some of the likeness and differences this conclusion seems logical.
                                                           
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 18, 2007, 10:44:52 PM
Exactly my point Joe,

If the device was dependent on pure galvanic action there should be no oscillations. There aren't any in a galvanic battery. So where are they coming from? This is what we are trying to determine.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 18, 2007, 11:50:54 PM
@Bill I just saw your video. Awesome man , the same thing happened when i measured amperage, try taking a resistor inline and the measure it meaning positive to resistor then + probe to other side of resistor and - probe to - ground electrode i think that will give you a more stable current measurement.  Again great work, folks are really starting to take an interest. ;D
                                                                                           Joe     
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 19, 2007, 02:30:02 AM
@hans: it's better than reading a good novel!  The coil part is certainly the key, and determining what is happening.

We should build a few of these devices and set up a testing procedure.  Would be good to have people in different parts of the world participate so we can see how the earth's magnetic field influences the devices. Either everyone should build exactly the same device or we should  come up with a bunch of configurations and let one person try each one to save time.   Different wire gauges, different number of turns on primary & secondary obviously make a big difference in the results obtained.  Do people agree that with some experimental results we may be able to get a better picture of what's going on?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on November 19, 2007, 02:33:03 AM
@Bill
Is your led is still up?  I have put 1.5" diameter copper tube about 12" into ground and 1.75" aluminum tube at the same depth 4 feet apart. All I've got was .745VDC and  .101 mA.

@LocalJoe
First, thanks for bringing this topic up.  I really enjoy it.  Can you suggest how to wind the coil?  Thanks to Hans I know it is wound on soft iron core like transformer.  Primary both copper and iron wire insulated are they going together or one on top of the other.  What wire gauge to use on primary what on secondary?  you can give me please different specs what yours going to be then we can compare results.  Thanks, George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 19, 2007, 03:43:30 AM
The iron wire has to be exposed but not touch it self so side by side would be the answer your looking for.  As well somewhere it said the larger the capacitor you have the easier it flows so a big cap for the initial experiments may be very fruitful. Like the big blue tin can looking ones that folks use for large storage low voltage. Just a thought.
                                                                                                     Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 19, 2007, 05:59:06 AM
G'day all,

The way I read it it is irrelevant if the iron wire is bare or encased in some insulating material. According to the patent it is also irrelevant how many windings there are.

What would appear to be important is that the iron wire or the copper wire for that matter do not come into contact with each other or the core.

Stubblefield seems to be certain on that, or he was just hedging his bets against usurpers of his patent. Only experiment will show.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 19, 2007, 06:42:35 AM
@ Localjoe:

Thanks for the compliment on the video.  It was hurried and a little crude with a few mistakes but, I wanted to get the info out there.  I will look into your resistor idea.  Thanks again for posting this topic.  Very exciting.

@ George:

Yes, it is.  And the cap is fully charged and will light it on its own also.  With your experiment, according to the galvanic chart published here earlier by me, you should have read .85 vdc just by the metal difference.  I have always been able to better that galvanic number by a good percentage, and you should too.  First, were your electrodes set up so the copper was to the north and the aluminum to the south aligned on the north/south meridian?  (NOT) the magnetic north, depending on your location it will be different.  I have found this makes a difference which is very measurable.  What Localjoe suggested in the very begining, which I did, was to plant your most positive metal to the north (in your case, the copper) and then, probe around along the n/s alignment a few inches deep to obtain the true polar north south by using the area that shows the highest readings.  Then, sink your aluminum rod there.  I'll bet you find a big improvement by doing this.  Also, by reading the articles posted on this thread, I read that the south post/pole should be not as deep as the one to the north.  By experimenting with these parameters, you should be easily able to exceed the galvanic chart's numbers.  I have in the past but with my current setup, I am only in the ground 2" with the magnesium block so I know I am giving up something there.  Still looking for a mag rod of some decent length.  Best of luck.

@ Hans:

I am greatly enjoying reading your posts.  This is like a treasure hunt where we have a few pieces of a map, and need to fill in the rest.  It should be fun.  Thanks for your efforts here.

Bill

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 19, 2007, 08:31:28 AM
G'day all,

I think we should get Scotty Lang of Leedskalnin.com in on this discussion. This thing with the bi-filar, bi-metal coil is right up his alley and would certainly interest him. I will write to him and invite him into this discussion.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 19, 2007, 08:32:12 AM
I have a question.  I have been thinking a lot lately (which might be considered dangerous by some) and I want to raise this issue.  We can continue in another topic so as to not clutter this thread, but I will ask it here.  Have I achieved O.U. by lighting an led from an earth battery?  I am obviously not the first, Stubblefield,( and others) localjoe, and the guy on the video with an led in his bathroom, etc.  What I am asking is this:  Is putting some rods in the earth and obtaining electricity (at any measurable amount) O.U.?  I have always thought of O.U. as getting more out of a system than you put in.  If this is the definition, I would say, yes we have.  But, (there is always a but) if true than what about solar power?  Take a few silicon wafers and stick them in the sunlight and...bingo....electricity.  Would solar also be considered O.U.?  If not, why not?

If both questions above are answered in the affirmative, then what is all of the "debate" in science about O.U. being unobtainable by "known" laws?  If the answer to the above questions is no to both, then, what is O.U.?

As I said, this might need another topic created to discuss but, I would like the people working on these experiments with the earth batteries to respond with their opinions.

I am already planning a field trip to Murry, Ky, to check out Stubblefield's museum and possibly view some records and maybe some saved devices.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 19, 2007, 09:06:00 AM
G'day Bill,

If a light burning because of a solar panel is OU then of course you have it.

The problem with OU is that no-one is game to define UNITY !

Without that definition the label might be politically correct though scientifically it is meaningless. Since we do not know how much potential energy is contained in anything ( all we know is what the theoretical maximum of the energy we are CAPABLE of extracting is ) the whole discussion of overunity is academic.

If instead we apply the idea that overunity is extracting more energy than WE put into it then the problem has been solved long ago, all we are trying to do is to find cleaner ways of doing it.

Setting a match to crude oil is extracting more energy than we put into it. We are simply supplying the introductory impulses to liberate that energy.

With water, for instance, we know it is there. It does not respond to lighting a match, we have to be a lot more cunning to extract it.

It's the same all down the line. Energy from nothing is a wank.

Nothing comes from nothing is a philosophical expression of a thesis first argued by Parmenides, often stated in its Latin form: ex nihilo nihil fit. It was true then and it still is.

There is sooooooo much energy lying around out there, all we need to do is gather it. There is simply no need to create it from nothing.

Hans von Lieven

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 19, 2007, 11:09:18 AM
Here's something off the web on Stubblefield:

---

Nathan Stubblefield's observations of natural electrical manifestations led him to consider the taking of "free" electrical energy from the earth. His excessive study of theoretical literature taught that no such advantage could be obtained by using earth batteries. Writers contended that vast amounts of energy could never be used to drive the engine-works of industry by earth battery power. He saw that, unless a new breakthrough in the art could be found, the theoreticians would be correct.

Older linesmen taught Stubblefield about sensitive ground spots: how "uncommonly great" electrical activity had to be patiently searched out. These electrical hot spots, when compared with most adjoining ground, were like electrical oil wells. Finding the "right spot" would do more than simply insure good ground connection for telegraph lines. Certain ground power points could actually power the lines! Motivated toward deeper research by his own natural observations and intuitive sensation, Stubblefield devised several earth batteries. His own peculiar ability to sense earth energies taught that it was vast in quantity, yet untapped by humanity. The means for drawing out the energy could be found!

Stubblefield knew that ground probes, placed into various spots, reveal an amazing degree of electrical activity. These currents varied across any chosen plot of ground. Wet soils often reverse the expected electrical strength; weakening rather than strengthening their magnitude. Stubblefield knew that a proper placement of metallic ground probes could produce stronger currents for use. But he did not anticipate what he then accidentally discovered. His initial experiments involved the development and examination of simple earth batteries: buried metallic arrangements, which produced weak electrolytic power. Mr. Stubblefield observed a strange "earth-charging phenomenon", reporting that the burial of an "earth energy cell" required time to build up charge. During the first phase of this charge building process, the characteristic weak output was observed. This was usually a volt at half an ampere, the general electrolytic output of buried metals.

From his linesman mentors, Stubblefield knew that placement of any grounded metal was the key toward deriving power. If properly placed, the energetic output of his cell would be phenomenal. Finding such a power point, he buried the cell. The process took a week or more to build strength. Once the cell was "saturated", however, it became (in his words) "a conduit of earth charge". This mysterious transition from weak battery to energy conduit required time.

Typical of his curt statements, Mr. Stubblefield simply stated that the fully saturated coil suddenly "manifested an electromotive force far greater than any known wet-cell". This state being achieved, the cell flowed over in "commercial electrical volumes".

He did not claim complete knowledge of the phenomenon. He observed that the activity "reached into weeks and months of continuous work night and day".

Stubblefield envisioned the energy cell as a "plug", drawing out the electrical charge of the ground. The cell coils acted as a lumped conductor. Charge saturated this conductor and flowed up into it, powering any electrically connected appliance. After repeated exhumations, the copper element of these cells was found "not acted on in any perceptible degree ... even after repeated renewals".

Mr. Stubblefield described means by which such cells could be connected in series at short distances from one another. "With these, acting as electrodes ... you draw from the electrical energy of the earth a constant E.M.F. of commercial value". That phrase... "acting as electrodes..." is the heart of the Stubblefield energy cell. It is not a battery. It absorbs and flows over with the stupendous energy of the earth's charge.

This device, an earthed electrode, drew up enough natural electric charge from the earth to operate motors, pumps, arc lamps, and all the components of his ground telephone system. The implementation of his earth energy technology would have changed the nature of American Society, were it permitted free market expression in its day.

Mr. Stubblefield later stated in very plain language that the earth was filled with "an electrical ocean". This electrical ocean was surging with huge "electrical waves" which could be felt, brimming over in certain places. No doubt, he was one who felt the ground energy. Stubblefield sensed that the ground currents arrived in powerful electrical waves. In Stubblefield's visionary approach, the electrical waves permeated the ground. These electrical waves were like ocean waves: ceaselessly surging and cresting over.

---
Source: http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 19, 2007, 06:42:02 PM
Bill ,
     I think we could look at it this way.  As far as im concerned theres two major alternative energy sources available to the public. Solar and Wind. Were delving into a third,  In my eyes,  because done right this baby should be self sufficient and not need  external input to start producing power, just that of a few ground rods.  When i think over unity i think of combining mechanical and electronic ideas to achieve an efficiency greater than 100.00 %

 A simple way to start is a magnet motor, most here have dabbled a bit but its defiantly possible.  Bedini theoretically layed it out for folks great maybe not all his designs but in essence the guy has a pulse motor which has a few coils that send bemf pulse while running into a secondary sub system that has a motor and spins what he calls an energizer and we call an alternator to produce a bit of power, he then has a switching setup to charge the battery or cap for the initial motor that way the setup would be self sufficient.. Plus nefb mags weren't as prevalent in the 70's and 80's these magnets have way larger flux densities..  And will probably usher in a new gen of pulse motors as were seeing now.... But I say the most promising things out there to work on, are  This project just because of simplicity and mother earth, The tpu modled after a particle accelerator, and a real working homopolar  motor.  My first experiments were with the homopolar motor and it gives off some sort of plused dc or what not when you run it through a coil.. Awsome blue plasma at night tooo :)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: BRAHMA on November 19, 2007, 06:49:51 PM
@bill

I think the distinction between overunity and free energy often gets blurred in the professional and private sectors.  with my limited knowledge on any of these subjects, i have come to an understanding that an object in order to be classified as overunity, energy must have been used to in turn to create more energy from an object.  Much like the Newman motor that uses 9V batteries to run a massive water pump.
on the other hand, solar cells and earth batteries are probably better termed as receivers and/or  converters.   These are tools that are used to tap the energy that is around us already. Isn't this what is called free/zero-point energy? 
As the future of energy production evolves, i think that the most ideal path would be learning how to tap into the energy that is constantly around us. 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 19, 2007, 08:31:06 PM
G'day all,

I have written to Scotty Lang of Leedskalnin.com to get his take on the Stubblefield coil. He is the most knowledgeable guy on magnetism I know and I would like to incorporate his thoughts into the next chapter.

So please be patient, I will publish the next installment as soon as I am ready.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 19, 2007, 08:42:42 PM
@ Hans:

I agree 100%. I also think the term used by BRAHMA is very appropriate..."Converters".  Why try to create something from nothing when there is so much out there just begging to be converted.

@Localjoe:

I agree also about going after the more simple, elegant methods of energy conversion or reception.  Speaking of coils, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't an ignition coil just a large cap?  It works with dc and takes 12vdc to 50,000vdc or more.  Would it take my 1.6 vdc to 5,000 volts? Or 8,000 volts?  What if the coil were buried in the ground also?  So many questions, so little time.

@ akashh:

Good info there. The more information we have, the better. Thanks.

Thanks to all who answered my question on O.U.  I feel like I am tapping into a source of power for free energy by reception and or conversion so, I agree it makes the O.U. question moot.  Back to work now.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 19, 2007, 09:08:57 PM
Sorry Bill,

An ignition coil is not a large capacitor, it does not work with DC, it needs a pulse to fire.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 19, 2007, 09:56:23 PM
Hans:

My car runs on 12 volts dc right?  The coil there ups that from 12 volts to 50,000 volts doesn't it?  By pulse, do you mean (like in the old days before computer controlled ignition) when the distributor lined up with the spark plug wire terminal for a certain cylinder, the coil discharged and then was recharged such that the voltages were released in pulses when sparking from the electrode to the engine block ground?  I have seen several "Jaccobs Ladders" constructed from car ignition coils which were only hooked directly to dc power via battery or power supply. They appeared to supply a continues high voltage until the spark climbed up the gap at the top and started again at the bottom.

Pardon my ignorance here, I am still re-reading my electronics textbooks that I thankfully still have on hand. The old ignition systems utilized a condenser also but I thought that was used for the times when the coil was not firing.  If you would not mind explaining this, I would appreciate it. I am also attempting to find information on how to make coils which is not so easy to come by thus far.  Thanks Hans.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 19, 2007, 10:04:20 PM
The DC fed into the coil must be interrupted for the coil to fire. In the high voltage circuits using automotive coils they use some sort of oscillator often a 555 timer circuit to generate the pulses. In the old cars, before electronic ignition the DC was interrupted by a mechanical device (remember the old points?)

For the coil to function you need either AC or pulsed DC. Straight DC does nothing but burn the primary out.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 20, 2007, 12:34:49 AM
Hans:

Thanks, that makes sense to me now.  Yes, I remember the old ignition points.  Good thing about them was, you could always file them a bit and get home.  Now a chip overheats and you are stuck.  So, the points initiated/created the pulse.  Excellent, thanks again.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 20, 2007, 05:05:24 AM
http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/032403a.htm (http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/032403a.htm)

The entire article is at the above link.  But here is a most interesting section:

"Voila!  By such techniques, one can suddenly get real power out of the earth and ordinary materials in certain structuring, and plenty of it is available as one gradually learns to manipulate those self-orderings. One can power a house, etc. -- and in very peculiar fashion.  The WALLS can be made to emit light, e.g., and so can the earth outside the earth itself. One of the pioneers, Stubblefield (before Tesla; we have a photo of folks watching a Stubblefield demo, where Tesla is in the onlookers) powered and lit his cabin this way, and he often stimulated the surrounding hills so the earth in them emitted light and lit up the entire area.  He also produced electrical power for his cabin this way."

This guy has a theory about what might be going on but I don't understand it. (I am not sure if he does either)

I also read in another article that Stubblefield somehow vibrated his coils at rf levels which is why he is credited by the town of Murry, KY and a fairly recent court decision, as the original inventer of radio.  I can post a link about that one as well if anyone is interested.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 20, 2007, 05:31:43 AM
Here are (hopefully) some pictures from earth battery patents.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 20, 2007, 06:09:46 AM
G'day Bill and all.

Here is one of my better finds. The picture below is of Stubblefield's school that he set up with the help of Tesla.
The top right hand picture shows Stubblefield with his family and some of his equipment. in the bottom left corner of that picture is a box of Stubblefield's earth batteries. I have enlarged this section a little and posted it underneath.

Have fun.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 20, 2007, 08:50:51 AM
Ah ha i found the answer to the cap and the tree, check this out Bill and Hans this seems to be more on point for our initial findings here

                   :)
Source: KeelyNet / Jerry Decker email (12/21/05)

"Unlimited Electric Energy from the Environment?"






An alternative electric power generating system that draws energy from a seemingly unlikely yet abundant, eminently renewable and virtually free power source has been submitted for patenting by MagCap Engineering, LLC, Canton, Mass., in collaboration with Gordon W. Wadle, an inventor from Thomson, Ill. Wadle has invented a way to capture the energy generated by a living non- animal organism --- such as a tree.

Chris Lagadinos, president of MagCap, developed circuitry that converts this natural energy source into useable DC power capable of sustaining a continuous current to charge and maintain a battery at full charge.

"As unbelievable as it sounds, we've been able to demonstrate the feasibility of generating electricity in this manner," said Wadle.

"While the development is in its infancy, it has the potential to provide an unlimited supply of constant, clean energy without relying on fossil fuels, a power generating plant complex or an elaborate transmission network."

Wadle likened the invention to the discovery of electricity over 200 years ago when charged particles were harnessed to create an electric current. "Now we've learned that there is an immense, inexhaustible source of energy literally all around us that can be harnessed and converted into usable electric power," he said. Ultimately, it should prove to be more practical than solar energy or wind power, and certainly more affordable than fuel cells, he added.

Wadle said he got the original idea of harnessing a tree for electrical energy from studying lightening, more than 50 percent of which originates from the ground. This prompted him to develop the theories resulting in a method to access this power source.

Lagadinos then designed circuitry that filtered and amplified these energy emanations, creating a useable power source.

Basically, the existing system includes a metal rod embedded in the tree, a grounding rod driven into the ground, and the connecting circuitry, which filters and boosts the power output sufficient to charge a battery.

In its current experimental configuration, the demonstration system produces 2.1 volts, enough to continuously maintain a full charge in a nickel cadmium battery attached to an LED light. "Think of the environment as a battery, in this case," said Lagadinos, "with the tree as the positive pole and the grounding rod as the negative."

Lagadinos said the system could be enhanced enough to generate 12 volts and one amp of power, "a desirable power level that could be used to power just about anything," he said. It is enough power to charge batteries for any type of vehicle, including hybrids and electric cars, or to use with an AC converter to produce household power, he added. The LED industry is a prime example of a potential user of this power source.

While the basic concept of this invention -- using a tree to generate electric power -- seems too incredible to be true, Lagadinos said it can be demonstrated quite simply. "Simply drive an aluminum roofing nail through the bark and into the wood of a tree -- any tree -- approximately one half inch; drive a copper water pipe six or seven inches into the ground, then get a standard off-the-shelf digital volt meter and attach one probe to the pipe, the other to the nail and you'll get a reading of anywhere from 0.8 to 1.2 volts of DC power," he said.

"You can't do anything with it in that form because it is 'dirty' -- i.e. highly unstable and too weak to power anything," he added. In order to properly harness this potential energy source, MagCap devised two test circuits: one with three capacitors that were connected in parallel by means of a switch and charged to 0.7 volts each.

When fully charged they are switched to a series mode, multiplying the voltage to 2.1 volts and flashing an LED to show that sufficient power could be generated to produce a useable result. The second circuit included a filtering device to stabilize and "clean" the current so it could be used to charge and maintain a NiCad battery.

The battery then could be connected to the LED to keep the LED lit continuously. Wadle pointed out that there seems to be no limit to the amount of power that can be drawn from an individual tree, no matter how many "taps" are inserted -- each produces the same amount of energy, an average of 0.7 - 0.8 volts. Size of the tree also seems not to matter.

Interestingly, while conventional wisdom would seem to indicate that the tree draws much of its energy from photosynthesis via its leaves, the voltage output actually increases to 1.2-1.3 volts in the winter after the leaves have fallen.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 20, 2007, 09:14:54 AM
@ Localjoe:

Excellent find man!  I see what they did with the caps, they got.7 volts and used three caps in series to achieve 2.1 vdc.  Heck, we are getting more than that out of the initial tests. (more than their .7 vdc)  So, I can hook up three caps to my 1.6 and get 4.8 vdc?  My gut opinion/guess is that they are also tapping into the telluric currents by using the trees.  I think they are incorrect about the power coming from the trees, I think it is coming from the earth through the trees.  But, who knows?  I have only one tree here that I can test but since I rent, I don't own it.  Oh well, no one will notice a small hole here or there.  This is an interesting twist of events. Thanks.

@Hans:

Great pictures.  His batteries are smaller than I envisioned them.  I sure wish we could get our hands on one for examination.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 20, 2007, 10:30:37 AM
There is perhaps more to this than meets the eye, some of it not so good.

This is an excerpt from an article about Stubblefield written by one of his grandchildren:

 ?  Grandpa was now once again blamed by his wife of 36 years for accidently poisoning three of their nine children through inadvertencies. Neither, at the time of their experimenting with various mixtures of Pitchblende and salt crystals within their 85 farmland soil, knew it was contaminating Teleph-on-delgreen. From 1881 to 1906, the soil-coil RF antenna "hotspots" -- that made it possible for Grandpa Nathan Stubblefield to develop and patent the 1898 induction earth batteries and 1908 Wireless Telephone? -- did contaminate their foodstuffs and water.
? ? It wasn't until 1906 when their son Tesla died teething on a potato from one of the RF antenna "hotspots," -- that they realized that it could have been the RF antenna "hotspots," mixtures of Pitchblende, salt crystals and other active metals that created the healthy looking but tainted vegetable gardens. The watermelons, tobacco and other vegetation they had commenced growing and selling since their courtship in 1880, when he was 20 and Ada Mae, 16 years of age became an invitation for both invention and the destruction of a family.
? ? They couldn't shake the sense of dread, so Ada Mae on their 36th anniversary, 1917, left Grandpa Nat stranded. He moved his gear to a one room hut and became a stranger than fiction recluse. On summer nights, he would shock his neighbors by lighting up hill sides from his hut, with his buried RF induction transmitting coils.


One wonders what he did to the ground, the batteries as patented could not do this.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 20, 2007, 10:53:34 AM
The concept of getting higher voltages by charging capacitors got me thinking.  After quite a bit of googling, it seems we want something like this:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/cw1.htm
That's a Cockroft Walton Voltage Multiplier, which uses standard capas and diodes to boost the output.   We'd have to see what the diode does since voltages are so low to start with.  I was thinking that the output of this could be connected to a battery through a transistor & op-amp with hysteresis.   If for example we get 1 V that charges up out voltage octoplier, we'd eventually get 8V at the output.  We could then switch on our transistor and pipe this energy into a 4.5V or 6V battery.  When voltage reaches say 6V, the op-amp switches the transistor off and the charging starts again. 
I'm not an electronics pro but may be able to put this together if it's interesting to all.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 20, 2007, 05:01:05 PM
Yes deffiantly i was going to tell all that im going to try a small voltge x ing circuit before a stubblefield coil ... and we'd love to see your idea.  Ive got a few old computer psu's with plenty of parts i can unsolder ,i think it has a bunch of the 35 v cap's fat ones tho should be a nice test when we arc a screwdriver across the cap terminals. 8)   
                                                                                                   Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: mikestocks2006 on November 20, 2007, 05:51:17 PM
Update, tests.

Got a break in the weather for the last couple of days, plus some free time, so following up on the previous test results and additional configurations:

Maintaining control parameters
Test parameters as before but oriented East-West
Used 2 Zinc Hot Dipped Nails 12? long 3/8? Dia ( 30cm L x 1 cm Dia)
Driven into the ground to a depth of 10 Inches (25 cm)
Distance apart 23 feet (7 m)

 Readings:
No resistor (open circuit)
Voltage 0.001 mV DC (trickle effect due to multimeter?)
Ofc as expected over a 1k zero voltage and zero current

However:
This is in contrast to the some readings using the same setup North-South, see previous tests, so based on this, there maybe something to telluric currents
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.msg58636.html#msg58636
and
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.msg57637.html#msg57637

Now some interesting readings using zinc-copper couple
Using 1 zinchotdipped Nail as above and ?? DIA Copper pipe driven to same depth as above and same distance apart, oriented East-West
Readings:
No resistor
Voltage 0.87 VDC
Current 1.02 mA (using multimeter and whatever its shunt is inside)

Over 1k resistor (1024Ohm)
Voltage 0.51 Vdc
Resulting in 0.49 mA

Next same as above but orientation N(zinc)-S(copper)
Open Voltage .877 VDC
Over 1K resistance
0.456 VDC
Resulting in 0.45mA

Next same as above but N(copper)-S(zinc)
Open Voltage 0.834 VDC
Over 1k
0.342 VDC
Resulting in 0.33 mA

Measurments were taken under load (1k) for 2 days sampling . Over 10 readings the numbers were within 0.003 VDC so pretty tight and repeatable.

Some thoughts.
For these configurations the current (even though apparently constant for the 2 day period) is fairly low for lighting up an eg LED with one couple of rods Maybe at more depth and surface area contact plus multiple couples, it would be able to light up some high efficiency ultrabright LEDs all year around. Could be an interesting setup for the flower bed area.
It appears from the Zinc-Zinc tests, that it is not a pure galvanic reaction but some other effect come in play.
It also appears that N-S does effect (positively) the output. And with dissimilar metals, in this case zinc/copper, when copper is positioned N there is a slight advantage.

What?s interesting, is that there is a Voltage across zinc/copper couple when they are oriented East-West, is this galvanic reaction then?
Also tested at 2 .3 ft apart east west z-cu and got similar readings.

Good thread, nice contributions from many members.

Pirate88179, yeah the utility services check is a must do and it?s free, These folks shared some interesting stories, one customer cracked the gas line while trying to install his own fence posts.(code here calls for 32 inch min depth). Another went clear through the power cable had to get EMS involved as he got both a nasty shock and minor burn.

hansvonlieven, good sleuthing on the  Stubblefield's work/patents.
Thanks
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: gaby de wilde on November 20, 2007, 06:21:05 PM
What actually happens when earth batteries are put in series or parallel? Do they behave like normal batteries?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 20, 2007, 07:03:00 PM
Quote
In its current experimental configuration, the demonstration system produces 2.1 volts, enough to continuously maintain a full charge in a nickel cadmium battery attached to an LED light. "Think of the environment as a battery, in this case," said Lagadinos, "with the tree as the positive pole and the grounding rod as the negative."


The above quote is from the article posted by Localjoe on the tree energy project.  I went out this a.m. for a minute and used my voltmeter on my tree and learned something.  First, they have the polarity backward in the article from what I just experienced.  Maybe that was a type of disinformation, who knows.  Maybe there are positive and negative trees? I got .17 vdc by stabbing my -lead into the tree and the + lead into the earth.  Both probes were only in about 1/4 inch deep.

@Mikestock:

Great work, keep it up.

@ Hans:
This makes it sound like he was seeding his "hotspot" areas with some dangerous chemicals.  Or, could it have been the decomposition of his copper that Stefan warned us about in an earlier thread? He was concerned we would poision our gardens.  Great research Hans, but I don't really like this news.

@Gaby:
I only attempted to effect a series test one time and once I attached the lead to tie the + -, to the next +- it shorted the whole works out to 0.  I probably need some guidance from you electronics guys out there to do this correctly.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 20, 2007, 07:22:04 PM
@ akashh:

Cockroft Walton Voltage Multipliers

Thanks for this info.  Can you or any of the electronics guys out there tell me how to build one?  I see the circuit diagram but it would be helpful to have a list of required components, then I could see if I were up to the task.  This sounds ideal for charging the caps....big caps.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 20, 2007, 07:27:15 PM
What actually happens when earth batteries are put in series or parallel? Do they behave like normal batteries?

Yes Gaby, they do.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: gaby de wilde on November 20, 2007, 07:36:21 PM
The electrodes don't know which is primary or secondary in series. You would end up with 1 earth battery and another one that is shorted out. But parallel you get zero. ok, that does explain why one would charge a row of cap's separately. Then when the caps are charged you can discharge them in any grid mix of parallel and series. I'm a bit confused on the overunity forum as I'm always interested in the combination of devices. Then have to take topics off topic it seems. lol I've seen people use pulsed coils and motors using dead batteries, like with no current just a bit of volts. The earth battery seems to deliver much better seed energy to feed this kind of devices. A dead battery does deliver good proof but it would be nice to have a bit bigger input as that. (using some kind of free energy of course) Can't one power a Newman machine with a bunch of caps? Or one of Mr Bedini's variations? Those give enough clean amp to charge a battery do they not?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 20, 2007, 07:42:41 PM
G'day guys.

I have to go back to my earlier post, I have just remembered something which might be of importance here. When talking about Stubblefield contaminating the earth I quoted:

? ? It wasn't until 1906 when their son Tesla died teething on a potato from one of the RF antenna "hotspots," -- that they realized that it could have been the RF antenna "hotspots," mixtures of Pitchblende, salt crystals and other active metals that created the healthy looking but tainted vegetable gardens.

I missed it on the first reading through but then I remembered what Pitchblende is. It is an old fashioned German term for a mineral that is now known as Uraninite.
 IT IS RADIOACTIVE !

Now what the f*ck was Stubblefield doing with radioactive materials and what has this to do with the earth batteries.

This is getting weirder every day! I am having a fine time researching this.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 20, 2007, 07:52:45 PM
The electrodes don't know which is primary or secondary in series. You would end up with 1 earth battery and another one that is shorted out. But parallel you get zero. ok, that does explain why one would charge a row of cap's separately.


Have a look at the Dieckmann and Emme patents that Bill listed on the previous page . They show series arrangements of earth batteries.

Incidentally you have a similar arrangement in a 12 Volt car battery where there are several cells sharing a common electrolyte. Galvanic cells typically produce no more than 1.5 Volt.

Hans von Lieven

EDIT  Sorry Gaby, I missed part of it. The electrodes DO know which is, as you call it, primary or secondary in series.

Remember we have two dissimilar metals, say copper and zink. copper to copper and zink to zink is parallel, copper to zink copper to zink is series with the first zink and the last copper being the terminals.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 20, 2007, 07:59:03 PM
@ Hans:

Yes, exactly!  Pitchblende was what Madam Curie used as a radioactive source in order to isolate the polonium and radium from uranium  in her research.  I know that it occurs naturally in North America but, as far as I know, only in the northern lattitudes...upstate N.Y., Canada, etc. I never heard of it here in Kentucky.  Uranium would most assuredly have an effect on the potato patch. (NOT GOOD!)  Hey Hans, it said "Healthy looking but tainted vegetable garden."  I'll be the radioactivity made for some huge, fast growing vegetables no?  I'm sorry I missed this the first time around.  Glad you caugt it.  I'll have to read more slowly and carefully.

It would be interesting to take a geiger counter over to his original site, I'll bet is goes....click,click,click,click....

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 20, 2007, 08:09:32 PM
This stuff would have been removed by now. From what I can gather Stubblefield's site is now the Murray State University, which incidentally has a collection of Stubblefield papers, letters and so forth, perhaps even the odd device.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: tak22 on November 20, 2007, 09:17:33 PM
pitchblende (radioactive) + copper coils = magnification = William N. Barbat

tak
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 20, 2007, 09:33:06 PM
Thanks for the information tak,

Here is the link to Barbat's invention http://www.rexresearch.com/barbat/barbat.htm

Fascinating stuff, this might explain a lot!

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 20, 2007, 09:47:01 PM
Quote from Barbat:

Quote
This disclosure introduces a technical field in which practical electrical energy is created in accordance with the overlooked exception to the energy-conservation rule that Herman von Helmholtz described in his 1847 doctrine on energy conservation: "If . . . bodies possess forces which depend upon time and velocity, or which act in directions other than lines which unite each pair of material points, . . . then combinations of such bodies are possible in which force may be either lost or gained ad infinitum." A transverse inductive force qualifies for Helmholtz's ad infinitum rule, but this force is not sufficient of itself to cause a greater energy output than input when applied to electrons of normal mass due to their unique charge-to-mass ratio. However, the increased acceleration of conduction electrons of less-than-normal inertial mass, as occurs in photoconductors, doped semiconductors, and superconductors, is proportional to the normal electron mass divided by the low electron mass, and the magnification of harnessable inductive energy is proportional to the greater relative acceleration, squared.


 Magnetic force also satisfies Helmholtz's exemption to the energy-conservation rule because magnetic force is transverse to the force that causes it, and magnetic force is determined by the "relative velocity" (i.e., perpendicular to the connecting line) between electric charges. Magnification of magnetic force and energy was demonstrated by E. Leimer (1915) in the coil of a speaker phone and in the coil of a galvanometer when he irradiated a radio antenna-wire with radium. A 10-milligram, linear radium source produced a measured 2.6-fold increase in electrical current in the antenna-wire in comparing inaudible radio reception without radium to audible reception with radium. This represented a (2.6).sup.2=7.times. increase in electrical energy flowing through the respective wire coils. The possibility of this enhanced reception being attributed to a person's body holding the unit of radium to the wire was eliminated by Leimer's additional observation that, whenever the orientation of the small radium unit was changed to approximately 30 degrees relative to the wire, the energy enhancement ceased.

Helmholtz again!

This gets wilder and wilder. Keely's and to some degree Tesla's work is largely based on Helmholtz's discoveries, so it would appear is Stubblefield's.

We are really opening a can of worms here, the implications of which are at present beyond my comprehension.

Hans von Lieven

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 20, 2007, 10:07:05 PM
Hans:

This is fantastic!!!!  My head is reeling and I will need to go back and read all of this again.  Who the heck knows what will turn up next? Started with pipes in the ground, electrodes, Stubblefield, Keely, Tesla, Hemholtz, radioactivity, trees, poison potatos, and......?

Localjoe, you may have started something here that might take us all beyond anything we ever even considered before.  We can keep the technology open source, but I think we should SELL the book and movie rights...ha ha.

I have to go out on an assignment now but I can't wait to check this topic when I return.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 20, 2007, 10:30:26 PM
Don't hold your breath Bill,

I have some serious reading and thinking to do. :-) It might take a while.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 21, 2007, 02:45:09 AM
Good sleuthing...  however exciting as it is, that's where my interest in experimentation ends.  If it turns out we need to use blocks of radioactive stuff, I'll stick with solar and wind.  But it definitely does explain a lot about what stubblefield used to excite his weird little coil.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 21, 2007, 05:27:15 AM
Don't give up on it yet akash,

There is a lot more to it than appears even now. Keely did not use radioactive material neither did Helmholtz or Tesla, and if my hunch is right there are other ways to excite the coils than using radioactivity.

The closest thing to radioactive bombardment is a pressure wave. Just bear this in mind.

It's early days yet.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 21, 2007, 05:42:25 AM
Hans:

Pressure wave as in...magnetic...acoustic...or...?  (any or all of the above)  I agree that it is way to early to "give up" or form any conclusions at this point.  Hell, we are just getting started. I picked up two book from the local library on my way home that had ref. to Stubblefield in them.  Each book only had a chapter each.  It was the same old bio/background stuff, nothing new to report.  "One book did say that all of his equipment and devices have disappeared."  I hope this is not true.  I want to see what the Stubblefield museum has in their archives and inventory.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 21, 2007, 05:54:09 AM
No Bill, it is not true, I have seen reports of people seeing some of his devices in a local museum. Perhaps someone at the university can tell you where the stuff is kept.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 21, 2007, 05:57:15 AM
Hans:

I'm on it.  This is where being an investigator might really pay off.  Also, I am here in Kentucky which I think is fortuitous.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 21, 2007, 06:11:10 AM
Here a short quote from my website about Keely's approach to fundamentally the same problem.

Keely observed that huge forces held particles together in 'corpuscular embraces'. He knew this because he had been able to disrupt these 'embraces' and liberated extraordinary amounts of energy whose origin could not be explained in any other way. We know today that this is true. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are stark reminders of that fact.

It is interesting to note that this was unknown to science in Keely's time. That Keely knew this gives his observations and experiments more credit than anything else he did.

He was one of the first to state categorically that there were enormous amounts of energy locked up in atomic and sub-atomic particles that could be liberated.

Ironically, that was also the statement that discredited him most with the scientists of his day.

The only point where contemporary science and Keely differ is that science maintains that the only way to disrupt these 'embraces' is by bombardment with particles, in other words levelling a big gun at it and start shooting it to pieces.

This approach would have seemed crude and brutal to Keely, had he known about it.


We are dealing with essentially the same thing here, I do not believe we need radioactivity, either a sonic or perhaps a magnetic field will suffice. I prefer sonic since it is possible to direct the field with more precision than a magnetic field an since it lends itself to "shaping" more readily than any field of magnetic origin.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 21, 2007, 09:01:58 AM
 Below are some book reviews for a self published book that I will attempt to locate.  I thought it might make interesting reading.  (The reviews)    Bill
 
 I've been waiting for this one since first hearing about the featured inventor way back in graduate school more than 35 years ago. It's surprising nobody has done this before. But this appears to be the first book-length treatment on Nathan Beverly Stubblefield (1860-1928), the legendary Kentucky melon farmer who some (who don't know better) think invented radio years before Marconi. A member of the Murray State University faculty, Lochte has gotten behind years of local community hype to find out just what the man did-and did not-accomplish in a series of 1890s and early 1900s demonstrations.

What makes this self-published volume so useful is that Lochte has gathered more photos, patent reprints, and other information in one place than anybody else has managed over the years. While his findings won't please some of the Murray Chamber of Commerce types (who love to tout their town as the real birthplace of radio), they surely do place Stubblefield where he belongs-as an early telephone entrepreneur who pursued what turned out to be a wireless dead end. While purists might argue with Lochte's reference to his subject as "Nathan" throughout (they obviously did not know one another), that is a minor complaint for what is really a very well done biographical survey separating a bit of wheat from years of chaff.

Appendices include reproductions of Stubblefield's four patents, his 1902 statement on wireless telephony, a reprint of a 1902 Scientific American article, and reprints of an oft-cited speech and article on which others have drawn. Photos include both historical and current material and are well reproduced. This is fascinating and readable stuff.

Christopher H. Sterling
George Washington University


It's the eyes - the windows of the soul - that first attract the reader to open this book. Nathan Stubblefield's eyes stare from the vintage photo on the cover, inviting a curiosity about an early age in broadcast history. Was Stubblefield a visionary Kentucky farmer who invented the wireless telephone, as the title declares? "But was it radio?" the subtitle taunts. No matter what, those very eyes were eaten out by a cat before Stubblefield's decomposing body was found after the hermit starved to death. This fascinating book sorts out the facts from the folklore surrounding Stubblefield.

This richly illustrated book is a lively mixture of odd truths to help both the curious reader and the competent historian. What is found in the book is a compelling tale that is really two tales. First, there is the story of Stubblefield's inventions: What they did, how they worked, and why they failed. And second, the reader sees how newspaper accounts combined with boosterism from his hometown chamber of commerce - complete with songs and plays - and theatrics from a wacky relative, created a fictional, almost mythical image of the man.

Beyond providing interest for the broadcast historian and radio buff, this book makes a distinct contribution to the history of media product marketing. For public relations and strategic marketing scholars, it traces in detail how the press can interplay with paid advertising and staged media events to promote a new technology. In Stubblefield's era, the inventor and his financial backers staged a press demonstration on the banks of the Potomac. Today, public relations firms vie for time on morning network news magazines to push hot new technologies.

This book is a delightful read.

Journal of Radio Studies


The United States has its own homegrown Marconis, inventors who staked an early technological claim on ways of communication that dispensed with the annoying need for connecting wires. Amos Dolbear, Mahlon Loomis, and even Alexander Graham Bell all developed competing systems of wireless communication in the late nineteenth century that ran the gamut from the use of induction to light.
 

And then there is the case of Murray, Kentucky's favorite son, Nathan B. Stubblefield, an eccentric farmer and self-taught inventor who died in 1928. Legend has grown up around Stubblefield as the result of a series of inventions, experiments, and media coverage he received in his lifetime, as well as some outrageously self-serving claims made by others after his death.
 

Author Bob Lochte, a professor at Murray State University, has tackled head-on the messy tangle of truth and fiction that surrounds Stubblefield, and attempted to sort out just what's what. The first part of Kentucky Farmer... is a relatively brief factual account of Stubblefield's life and achievements. Ambitious beyond his rural farming background and self-educated about things electrical, Stubblefield made his debut in the fledgling telecommunications realm by supplying telephone services - of a sort - to his neighbors in Murray in the 1880s. His "Vibrating Telephone" was little more than a slightly sophisticated variation on the child's toy of tin cans connected to one another by a taut string. But at a time when Bell's telephone system hadn't yet spread to more rural parts of the country, Stubblefield sold enough of his contraptions to make a living from them for a time.

But the cause of all the controversy that exists to this day has to do with Stubblefield's invention of what amounted to a wireless telephone system that operated via earth conduction using rods inserted into the ground, a device he publicly demonstrated in Washington, Philadelphia, and (unsuccessfully) New York City in 1902. Stubblefield received much media coverage over the system, but Lochte reminds us that others had trod this path before; both William Preece and A. Frederick Collins, for instance, had previously invented (and patented) similar systems to Stubblefield's. At a time when a number of other early wireless pioneers (Lee de Forest pre-eminent among them) willingly engaged in shady stock promotions, Stubblefield, to his great credit, recoiled from the dubious dealings of a promoter with whom he had become involved. Abandoning his efforts to commercially market his earth conduction system of wireless telephony, and after failing to interest the world in an induction coil wireless system, he ended his life a secretive and desperately poor hermit living just outside of Murray.
 

It is here that the second part of Lochte's story begins: the construction of the mythology of Stubblefield as a misunderstood and neglected wireless genius, a process that began during his lifetime but which took off in earnest after his death from malnutrition in March of 1928. Journalists, the civic leaders of Murray, and even Kentucky State politicians relied heavily on gross exaggerations of a few facts and out and out untruths in their efforts to package and market Stubblefield. Enormous misunderstandings arose, for instance, over the fact that, since Stubblefield's earth conduction system employed telephony rather than telegraphy, it must therefore have amounted to the invention of radio. Accordingly, the community of Murray began to heavily identify itself as the "birthplace of radio." Lochte's account of the entire business makes for a fascinating case study in how legends and myths emerge from embellished truths and simple lies.

Bob Lochte has been studying Stubblefield and his legend since 1990. His research even led him and television engineer Larry Albert to build a working replica of Stubblefield's earth conduction telephone system and successfully demonstrate it. If anyone should get the Stubblefield story right, it should be him. And he doesn't disappoint. The thoroughness of his scholarship is evident throughout his book, and the inclusion of Stubblefield's patents in the appendices, as well as reprints of some of the period articles (including one from Scientific American) that helped get the whole Stubblefield myth started, are particularly useful for those who want to see exactly what the fuss has been all about and how it got started. At a time when Nathan Stubblefield's minor (but notable) achievements in early wireless communication have become so overblown as to rank him up there with Nikola Tesla in the eyes of many contemporary conspiracy theorists, Bob Lochte's Kentucky Farmer Invents Radio! proves to be a much-needed and welcome setting straight of the historical record.
 

Gil McElroy, QST


Kentucky Farmer Invents Wireless Telephone: But Was It Radio? Facts and Folklore about Nathan Stubblefield appears to be the first book-length treatment on Nathan Beverly Stubblefield, the Kentucky farmer (1860-1928) who some think invented radio before Marconi. A member of the Murray State University faculty, Lochte has gotten behind the local community hype to find out just what the man did and did not accomplish in a series of 1890s and early 1900s demonstrations. Bottom line-Stubblefield did invent a type of conduction point-to-point wireless service, but it was most assuredly NOT broadcasting. What makes this volume so useful is that Lochte has gathered more photos, patent reprints, and other information in one place than anybody else has managed over the years. While his findings won't please some of the Murray Chamber of Commerce types (who love to tout their town as the real birthplace of radio), they surely do place Stubblefield where he belongs-as an early telephone entrepreneur who pursued a wireless dead end. While purists might argue with Lochte's reference to his subject as "Nathan" throughout (they obviously did not know one another), that is a minor complaint for what is really a very well done biographical survey separating wheat from chaff. The peak of Stubblefield's fame came in 1902 when his experiments were written up in several papers. But the story after that is all downhill...to his death from starvation in 1928. Lochte goes an important step further, however, and relates how the myths have grown since 1928, including reprints of oft-cited speeches and articles on which others have drawn. Fascinating stuff.

Communication Booknotes Quarterly


Murray State University professor Bob Lochte has separated fact from fiction in his book about Nathan Stubblefield, the Murray resident who many believe invented radio more than 100 years ago.
In Kentucky Farmer Invents Wireless Telephone? But Was It Radio? Facts and Folklore about Nathan Stubblefield, Lochte has researched Stubblefield's somewhat eccentric past, his claims about wireless signals, and how history got a little distorted through the years.
While the book focuses on Stubblefield (Kentucky Monthly, October 1999, page 24), it also presents a concise history of wireless communications.
 

Kentucky Monthly


Attempting to interpret the enigmatic mind of Nathan B. Stubblefield is almost certain to be fruitless but in his new book about the Calloway County genius/eccentric/fraud/recluse/legend, Dr. Bob Lochte discovers, speculates, and interprets more fully than any previous endeavor. He certainly is not the first to be so intrigued by the Stubblefield legend, but he is the first to produce a book which so thoroughly examines, and provides such an unprejudiced look at the life and life's work of this uneducated farmer who for a time captured the attention of much of the nation.
 

Chuck Shuffett, Montage


When a Murray youngster asked Dr. Bob Lochte if it was true that Nathan Stubblefield invented radio, he was speechless. After all the child had heard the lore that the Calloway County melon farmer had bested Guglielmo Marconi, and Murray was the self-proclaimed ?birthplace of radio.?
 

In 1892, Stubblefield created an electromagnetic induction wireless telephone and showed it to his friend Rainey T. Wells. The first words uttered over the device were ?Hello, Rainey.?
 

His curiosity piqued, Lochte ... sifted through collections at the Pogue Library and began piecing together Stubblefield?s life and ?the mind-set of 100 years ago.?
 

Lochte said: ?I don?t think it?s fair to evaluate old technology based on what we know today. People didn?t know that back then. You have to put Nathan into context. Really, most of the people who have found out stuff about Nathan haven?t done an adequate job.?
 

It?s obvious that a lot of folks want to know. They can start here, and if they want to know more, they can get the real documents and photos.

Paducah Sun


Ask anybody in Murray who really invented radio, and you?ll probably hear it was Nathan B. Stubblefield. But Bob Lochte says in his new book that Stubblefield?s inventions were not the forerunners of radio, an assertion that might seem like heresy in Murray.

Even so Stubblefield was not a failure. He did exactly what he intended all along - invent a wireless telephone system. ?Nathan apparently believed that wired telephone service wouldn?t come to rural America for a long time,? Lochte said. ?He was right.?
 

Stubblefield showed his wireless telephone to Murray friends and relatives as early as 1892. Marconi sent the first long-distance telegraphic radio signal three years later.
 

Berry Craig, Associated Press


Two stories are combined in the public?s knowledge of Stubblefield.

Stubblefield invented an acoustic telephone, which probably sounded better than the Bell phone. Once Stubblefield had established himself and was selling telephone systems as far away as Oregon and Washington, a group of doctors in Murray decided to purchase a Bell system, leaving him without a market. Undaunted, Stubblefield came out with a plan to develop a wireless telephone system, thinking if he did not have to run a wire, he could compete with the Bell system. Over the next 20 years, Stubblefield?s only focus was to develop and market a wireless telephone system.

A cousin, Vernon Stubblefield, who had taken care of Stubblefield during that last six years of his life, decided that he was going to connect Stubblefield with radio. At the same time, L.J. Hortin, a journalism professor at Murray State University, was setting up a lab to have student journalists cover events around Murray. Rainey T. Wells, the University President, and Vernon convinced Hortin that Stubblefield was indeed the inventor of radio. Thus began Hortin?s lifelong quest. Despite failed attempts to build a state park in honor of the inventor, he did coin the phrase ?Murray, Kentucky - The Birthplace of Radio,? which could be seen on Chamber of Commerce campaigns until the early 1990?s.

Murray Ledger & Times


According to legend, radio was created in Murray by Nathan B. Stubblefield in 1892. Unfortunately, this simple story has been corrupted and changed into the folklore it is today. Bob Lochte has recently written a book to clarify misconceptions about the life of Stubblefield and his involvement in the creation of a wireless telephone.
 

Lochte, because of his knowledge, received several calls a month from people who could not find all the information they wanted. ?It seemed to me that it would simplify things if folks had a book like this about Stubblefield.? Lochte said.

For his book, Lochte spent many hours working with Larry Albert, WQTV engineer, collecting information from the Pogue Library and reading through files and folders stored in cardboard boxes. The two took the information and constructed a replica of Stubblefield?s model in 1992.

?We didn?t say whether it was a radio or not,? Albert said. ?The book pretty much tells that.?
 

The Murray State News


"Kentucky Farmer Invents Wireless Telephone!" was the resounding headline in the St. Louis Post Dispatch of January 12, 1902. The full-page feature went on to describe Nathan Stubblefield?s marvelous invention. Over the next six months, Stubblefield would demonstrate his wireless telephone at public venues in Washington, Philadelphia, and New York. It could even broadcast to multiple receivers simultaneously. Entrepreneurs created the Wireless Telephone Company of America based on his device. But Stubblefield fell out with his backers and lapsed into obscurity as rapidly as his star had risen. The most famous person ever to come from Murray, Kentucky, died of starvation, alone in a dirt floor shack.

A few months later, a young journalism professor and his students breathed new life into the Stubblefield story. With the encouragement of Stubblefield?s relatives and the president of the college, they disseminated the notion that Nathan?s invention was actually the earliest radio and that Murray was thus ?the birthplace of radio.? So began the legend of Nathan Stubblefield and more than a half century of promotion and boosterism associated with it.

In meticulous detail, Murray State University professor Bob Lochte tells both stories - the facts and the folklore - about Nathan Stubblefield. The text is richly illustrated with more than 50 original photographs from the Stubblefield collections at the Pogue Library and Wrather West Kentucky Museum. As an added bonus for scholars, Lochte has reprinted all of Stubblefield?s US patents and several historically significant documents related to his life and legend.

From the Publisher
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 21, 2007, 09:15:46 AM
I found this also...for future refference......Bill

1970s 0613 - THE LEDGER & TIMES - 1970: June 13, 1970; Replica Of Nathan Stubblefield 's First Radio On Display At Capitol; Photo: This is an actual photo of Nathan B. Stubblefield and his wireless telephone taken in the early 1900s - EARLY RADIO - Kenneth F. Harper, Commissioner of Public Information and Jim Kincer, recently appointed Director of News and Promotional Services for the Kentucky Department of Public Information, inspect a replica of Nathan B. Stubblefield's wireless telephone. The replica is on display at the capital rotunda. Stubblefield, a native of Murray is the inventor of radio. *NBSWiTel??AFact
? 1970s 0823 - LETTER: August 23, 1970, from MSU, Dr. Hinds, to Bernard Stubblefield. *NBSWiTel??AFact
? 1970s 1001 - LETTER - 1970: October 1, 1970, from Murray State University, Murray, Kentucky 42071, to Bernard Stubblefield.
??? Mr. Bernard B. Stubblefield, P.O. Box 123, Rural Route 2, Florence, Mississippi 39073.
??? Dear Mr. Stubblefield: You will be pleased to know that your trunk and it contents now reside safely in the Stubblefield Repository at the Murray State University Library. President Sparks, himself, came over to see the trunk as it was brought in and displayed much interest in the trunk and its contents. Some pictures were taken and newspaper stories are planned. I will be sure to send you copies when the stories break the news.
??? My work on your father is progressing well and I am in hopes that I will meet my December deadline. I am compiling a list of questions that I have been unable to answer and will one day soon--meaning whenever I can get away from the University--come down to chat with you and to brief you on the progress at this stage.
??? Again I should like to thank you for allowing your father's things to bo placed in the Stubblefield Repository. Also, strictly personally I send to you my sincerest thanks for your efforts toward helping me with the book on your father. I can't say how much I appreciate your channelling inquires from other people up to me; after three years of work on your father I would be rather disturbed if some "Johnny come lately" were to throw together some slip shod and inaccurate work on your father which would create no end of problems in my research. Thanks to your efforts I am certain that will not happen.
??? I trust this letter finds you in good health and that the weather down your way continues to be fair. I'll keep in touch.
??? All good wishes, Thomas O. Morgan, Director of Radio-TV, Assistant Professor of Communications Murray State University. *NBSWiTel??AFact
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on November 21, 2007, 12:40:10 PM
Quote from Bill:
Quote
Pressure wave as in...magnetic...acoustic...or...?  (any or all of the above)

What about flowing water?  Anyone who tried dowsing knows how powerful that radiation can be.  I am preparing to drive electrodes every 12" in my backyard, then compare it with underground water flow to see if there is any coincidence. 

Anyone did some research how to connect them in series?  Does connecting them in parallel will have any effect?

George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: marga dan on November 21, 2007, 06:36:00 PM
hello guys, ive just read through the entire thread since last night, im immmensely interested in what you guys are doing, nice 1 for the work put in.

ive come up with a number of points id like to raise:

1, definition for over unity could be:- energy taken to create, start and run(all components) i.e in the sum E(tc)
                                                   energy outputed from device in lifetime ie in the sum E(ofl)

E(tc) divided by E(ofl) = if this sum equals above 1 surely its plus unity? just a suggestion

 2, if stubblefields coil windings are wrapped in cotton and placed in water, would the cotton not absorb the  water and therefore still have a electrically connecting effect due to the lower insulating properties of wet cotton??                                                   

3. sound and resonances. the last couple of threads are touching on sound, my personal belief is the universe is no more than frequencies, that take on chemical combining properties at extremely high frequencies. this idea is unfounded yet, just one of mine, but i have noticed patterns, but have still to confirm it. but i would like to raise a potential of the properties of resonance. if a soundwave reflects directly off the wall, it will lose a small amount of power(amount dependant on surface density) and reflect back and combine with the next incoming soundwave. if this was tuned to the rm resonances, the amount of power multiplies, massively.

what if on the secondary windings you ran a  sound signal, when tuned correctly it may resonate with the earth. i had heard in my looking about, tesla pulsed his coils at 50000hz,

there was guy who raised tuning it to earth, betweeen 0 and 15hz. i reckon this would be wrong, because in those areas of frequency, life cycles and brain waves are tied in. we wouldnt want to mess the planet up any more, by resonating a dangerous frequency. also, the lower the frequency generated, the more power it takes to generate.

im not sure if this is of any help, but i felt i had better mention the ideas rattling around my dusty head, :)
take care guys, keep it up, im looking to go get rods tomorrow, and look into this

Dan

"I'd rather fail by being true to my conscience than make a popular success by being false!"

extra point, in high frequency rf electronics(microwave), they use passive electronics, im not sure if this is the right term, but it has no electrical components, only reaction between different metals, reflected in tuning screws, and gaps in the metalwork, this is tuned to resonate to required bandwidth. appeciably in this system, th rf needs to be generated. but they do use different metals, copper and silver, and resonances.

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: marga dan on November 21, 2007, 06:51:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1eyLEo8_A

or maybe run walter lewins water battery back into the secondary coil? its naturally pulsed and regulated??
just a idea
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: gaby de wilde on November 21, 2007, 09:15:05 PM
The electrodes DO know which is, as you call it, primary or secondary in series. Remember we have two dissimilar metals, say copper and zink. copper to copper and zink to zink is parallel, copper to zink copper to zink is series with the first zink and the last copper being the terminals.

but if we have: [z]-[c]-[z]-[c] Don't we end up with one big [z]-----[c] and a  short [c]-[z] sitting in the center with it's wires shorted? How do the middle 2 know they are part of a series of batteries?

Does the north south placement fix this problem?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 21, 2007, 09:21:28 PM
It has nothing to do with north south. All galvanic batteries work like this whether they share a common electrolyte or not

Hans von Lieven

Edit call it + and - instead of copper and zink and you see perhaps what I am talking about
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on November 22, 2007, 01:26:32 AM
How about this scenario:

Wind coils like Stubblefield did. with third exciting coil on top.  Connect leads of that third coil to regular pair of electrodes driven into ground to power it up.   Test voltage at primary iron and secondary copper coils to see if we get anything.  If there is voltage,  will connecting them into series create also the same problem we have now with electrodes in the ground?

George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 22, 2007, 02:34:53 AM
No not really george sorry, umm, we want to step up  not down.. now since this primary is contained within the secondary it could be confusing if your use to seeing say 200 turns of gauge 18 magnet wire with say, 10 turns of gauge 12 on top of the 200 turn coil but same concept just different coil geometry.  In one of the Tesla coils the patent clearly states that it was a flat would spiral coil single layer and we know what the secondary looks like(the tower part) so it would be safe to say some transformers secondaries can partially or completely contain their (primary) exciter coil. Hope that helps, im soldering my voltage multipler circut now and hope to try that out tomorrow.
                                                                               Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 22, 2007, 06:03:46 PM
HAPPY Thanksgiving Everyone,
                             If your not an american which i know a bunch of you arent, I would feel obliged if you indulged in at least one drink today and well if theres turkey thats just a bonus. ;D ;D ;D   As well i seriously thought about opening this thread this morning:

" Over unity finally achieved from turkey beak grindings mixed with flour in roster bag"  Apparently by spreading the turkey beak shavings with flower in your roasting bag within 2 hrs after starting your turkey will start producing excess heat which at this point can be used for cold fusion. Thank you.


On second thought ... What the hey

On a real note i finished my voltage doubling circuit and hopefully get to try it out later.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 22, 2007, 08:11:13 PM
Happpy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it.

Localjoe:

Good luck with your circuit.  If it works, let me know I would like to try to replicate it. It is a little cold here today, but not that bad.  I was considering getting some glavanized nails and trying something else with my tree.  Since we think, so far, that more surface area is good for voltage and amps, what about nailing a pattern of about 10 nails into my tree and then wire wrapping them together like on a breadboard so they act as 1 larger nail.  I will then check the potential between the wire wrap and my carbon rod.  This would do a lot less damage to the tree as opposed to one large spike. 

I now have a bunch of various sized caps slavaged from several boards I was saving for just such an occasion. I hope to experiment with them soon as well.  I will drink at least one beer today and toast all of us that are seeking to explore this wonderful area of study.  Cheers.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 22, 2007, 08:31:09 PM
Hey Bill heres a pic of the diagram i used and the webpage was http://www.coolcircuit.com/circuit/voltage/ (http://www.coolcircuit.com/circuit/voltage/) had some cool stuff i used some black diodes that were 1n4001 similar to 1n914 i think different companies say different names for the same thing and 1n4003 should be fine to i have a bunch of them im only using the same kind of diode with itself not mixing them. I know that any of those three would be fine to use.
                                                                                                                    Salute
                                                                                                                         Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: marga dan on November 23, 2007, 01:16:31 AM
local joe, can u apply this circuit in parrallel to double current?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 23, 2007, 01:26:19 AM
Possibly Marga ,
 
         I think more diodes would be involved to prevent leakage of the caps into each other on the v out side, not sure tho.
                                                                                                   Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 23, 2007, 02:56:38 AM
localjoe, the voltage doubler circuit will only work for AC, but since that's part of what we are trying to capture it could work for any ac currents in the tree.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 23, 2007, 03:20:50 AM
Happy Thanksgiving fellas,

I went out to have a drink, even though it is only mid day here, just to be with you " In SPIRIT "  :-)

Still catching up on my reading and trying to work out just what we got ourselves into.

Greetings

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: gaby de wilde on November 23, 2007, 07:39:41 AM
Happy Thanksgiving fellas,

I went out to have a drink, even though it is only mid day here, just to be with you " In SPIRIT "  :-)

Still catching up on my reading and trying to work out just what we got ourselves into.

Greetings

Hans von Lieven

What are you dumb American talking about shit giving fest?  Who gives a shit Dumb ass?

I don't remember asking you for your opinion about me little boy Hans.   If you think I need your permission to talk with people here then you really have no clue about the world.

Do not bother me with your dumb insults Hans Von Leberwurst. 

Mind your own fucking business ok?

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 23, 2007, 08:09:30 AM
@Localjoe:

Here is a link to a site that has a schematic for a dc to dc voltage doubler working with volts as low as .7.
http://www.reuk.co.uk/DC-Voltage-Multiplier-Circuit-Plans.htm (http://www.reuk.co.uk/DC-Voltage-Multiplier-Circuit-Plans.htm)  It uses an ic chip (MAX 756) but does not look too hard to build.

@ Gaby:

Who all were you including in your "dumb American" comment?  That is an uncalled for statement and has no place here.  If you don't like or recognize Thanksgiving wherever you are, that's fine, but some of us AMERICANS do not like to have our holidays trashed.  Just a word of friendly advice.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 23, 2007, 08:27:04 AM
Cool bill gotta love the minty boost i thought the other would be simple to try outside, i plan to tomorrow if the weather clears up, it says the circuit can be used for pulsed dc or ac so who knows, worth a shot since i have this one built . If you wanna do the dc to dc one that would be cool to see in comparison. 

Gaby ... Hans was replying to ME a , stupid American who apparently has figured out how to type , and do other assorted complicated things like hit my easy button repeatedly when thinking about your mindless comments.  You should get one, and next time you decide to speak or post, just hit the button instead! It will save the battery life in mine and I'm sure you will feel the same satisfaction as this happy customer.
                                                                                              Thanks
                                                                                                         Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 23, 2007, 08:34:00 AM
Happy Thanksgiving fellas,

I went out to have a drink, even though it is only mid day here, just to be with you " In SPIRIT "  :-)

Still catching up on my reading and trying to work out just what we got ourselves into.

Greetings

Hans von Lieven

What are you dumb American talking about shit giving fest?  Who gives a shit Dumb ass?

I don't remember asking you for your opinion about me little boy Hans.   If you think I need your permission to talk with people here then you really have no clue about the world.

Do not bother me with your dumb insults Hans Von Leberwurst. 

Mind your own fucking business ok?



Can someone please tell me how that came about?

All I did was wish my friends well, or is that illegal in Holland??

Hans von Lieven

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 23, 2007, 08:47:30 AM
Outrageous, right? What is getting into people now days? :o :o ??? ???

.. Defiantly not in Amsterdam I heard folks there are a bit calmer and enjoy the food. 

And well when they write comments like "I mean spiritually we are a bunch of cave men?"

Those words re-instill my fear society is taking a dive.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 23, 2007, 09:06:10 AM
@ Hans:

I looked back over the last several posts before I posted my earlier reply and, I have no idea what the hell happened there.  Maybe a bad beer or two in Holland "Leads Out" this type of behavior.  Who knows?  Oh, I drank more than a few to my friends here on this site today.  Cheers.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 23, 2007, 09:11:20 AM
I am quite puzzled Bill,

I have said nothing about the guy here or elsewhere, I have no idea why he is attacking me.

Anyway, I had a couple of beers while thinking of you fellows :-)

Happy Holiday

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: gaby de wilde on November 23, 2007, 09:50:37 AM
Quote
Can someone please tell me how that came about?

I will explain exactly what this is about. I use to talk about what ever I liked on the internet. But apparently some people didn't like seeing this. I have tried to ignore it but wankers invade my discussion to insult my intellect. The result of trying to ignore it was more and more remarks. This is not the answer.

Together you have convinced me to think first before I even dare to take part in a public discussion. First I have to think really really hard!! I have to consider if it's worth getting bullshitted over posting something I enjoy thinking about.

Is it worth reading your crap vomited onto my hobby. But yes, the history of gravity powered walking devices was worth asking Lawrence a second question about this with all the public harassment that would bring.

Now I get email notification so that I can read I am a dumb ass??

I cant be allowed to talk about gravity powered devices in the lee tseung topic without you behaving like a 12 year old. Meanwhile you talk about thanksgiving in the earth battery topic?

No I don't think things work like that at all Hans little boy. Last time I asked Lawrence something you also whined about it? What is that for crap ah?

One more time for the extra stubborn children:

If you are not going to reply to anything I wrote then you should not quote me, and you should not even think about reviewing my personality under my posting.

Lawrence,

is there anything important in this valuable speech from shakylee?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sokWZc8R-co
YouTube - 木牛流馬_20070831 寶泰話三國



He was talking about the story of the inventions of the Wooden Cow and the Floating Horse.  According to the story, real cows and horses got frightened when crossing narrow bridges.  Much of the food for the soldiers were lost and fell to the river.

The inventions of the Wooden Cow and Floating Horse came as a result of such needs.  One Wooden Cow could carry food for a soldier for a year.  One Floating Horse could carry food for a soldier for 4 years. One speculation of the Wooden Cow was a hand-push Cart with one wheel in front.

*** Other speculations include self-propelling systems. ***

Some people will believe anything! Get real, Godzilla is a myth!

Hans von Lieven

wanker
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: gaby de wilde on November 23, 2007, 12:55:16 PM
...a , stupid American who apparently has figured out how to type , and do other assorted complicated things like hit my easy button repeatedly when thinking about your mindless comments....

Yes, changing the subject to Hans lack of sanity was not very nice.  It was a rather nasty thing to do.

I just didn't feel any love reading his posting. You know what I mean?

There was like nothing even remotely related to the text in the reply but jet it was obnoxiously quoting the post right above it using a gigantic font. Then he had something to say about me!  So I come here down to the earth batteries and turkey topics to create a complete and accurate description of the person so that others may use the same.

I feel this is exactly what was asked from me? Is it not?

Advertise his insanity on the Internet as the replacement of his discussion so that it's available for the world to read.

what good fun  ::)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Eden on November 23, 2007, 06:35:37 PM
@ Gaby
@ Hans

as posted in another topic:

offensive remarks are uncalled for in any topic of this forum.
one can say things in a civilised manner. we are all trying to achieve a common goal: OU !
and as a wonderful french proverb says: "du choque des id?es, jaillit la lumi?re"

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 23, 2007, 06:47:08 PM
There was nothing offensive in what I said, and Gaby, you don't have to pose as eden to make it look as though you have some support fot YOUR offensive behaviour!

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 23, 2007, 07:18:43 PM
As far as this earth battery thread I started, Gaby id applicate it if you left our thread and posted on others, we haven't had this kinda problem in this thread before and i don't wanna get cranky.  What happens when computer network engineers get cranky please tell me. Or put two and two together if you like having a working computer .  Understand that you have been given a warning here and asked to stop once,   Please think about this carefully, because I really enjoy my topic here, as well as others and we've had great contributions from everyone, except yourself only negative poster here.... So Stop or well your pc might magiclly loose the capacity to browse the net.
                                                                                                  Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: gaby de wilde on November 23, 2007, 08:01:33 PM
Yeah I'm sorry I get pissed off when insulted. I guess now you know about my low tolerance for off topic fish slap clap trap.  I promise next time you insult me I will try even harder to ignore it.

huhuhu
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 23, 2007, 08:53:37 PM
Ok I'll give ya that one, but unless your going to replicate something here theres really no reason for you to post any more in this topic regardless of how you feel about our topic. Id say thats fair enough.
                                                                   Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 23, 2007, 10:16:25 PM
@ Everyone:

Today, I obtained some hot dipped (zinc coated) nails for my tree trunk experiment.  While at the hardware store I found some 12" long zinc coated spikes! (Basically look like huge nails)  They were less than $1 USD ea.  I am not going to use the spikes on the tree but will play with them in the ground maybe see if I can't get this series thing to work.

I am going to use about 5 nails or so, driven part way into the tree near its base.  I am going to wrap them with wire to tie them in and check potential between them and the carbon rod.  I should also check between the nails and a zinc spike just to prove, if there is any voltage, that it is not galvanic, or at least not galvanic alone.  If I get anything worth looking at I will post another video.

@Localjoe:

How is your power amp circuit working?  I am very interested to hear about it.  I'm sure it is much colder where you are than here in Kentucky. (about 35 f now.)  Best of luck.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 23, 2007, 10:35:44 PM
@bill
Well i tried it with some batteries just for the fun of it and the batteries voltage was 2.7 v 2 d'cells drained a lil, the output side yeilded 3.09 v so id did something .3 volts . I'm About to go outside with it now so i'll tell ya how it goes with that. I'm just trying it on the rods if i have time I'll nail something in the tree...

Steel wire may be more important here than we thought. Im going to explain something later a little off topic about a nemodium mag exp with a screw and some stray effects. But the wire and contact it makes with the magnet is what will co inside with our experiments here.
                                                                                          Joe :)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 23, 2007, 10:55:57 PM
G'day all  OK fellows, here is the next installment.

Stubblefield continued.


The discovery that there was radioactivity involved in Stubblefield?s earth batteries puts an entirely different complexion on the matter.

My attention was drawn to William BARBAT ?s Self-Sustaining Electrical Generator  US Patent Application # 2007/0007844
In it Barbat says:

This disclosure introduces a technical field in which practical electrical energy is created in accordance with the overlooked exception to the energy-conservation rule that Herman von Helmholtz described in his 1847 doctrine on energy conservation: "If . . . bodies possess forces which depend upon time and velocity, or which act in directions other than lines which unite each pair of material points, . . . then combinations of such bodies are possible in which force may be either lost or gained ad infinitum." A transverse inductive force qualifies for Helmholtz's ad infinitum rule, but this force is not sufficient of itself to cause a greater energy output than input when applied to electrons of normal mass due to their unique charge-to-mass ratio. However, the increased acceleration of conduction electrons of less-than-normal inertial mass, as occurs in photoconductors, doped semiconductors, and superconductors, is proportional to the normal electron mass divided by the low electron mass, and the magnification of harnessable inductive energy is proportional to the greater relative acceleration, squared.
And further:

Magnification of magnetic force and energy was demonstrated by E. Leimer (1915) in the coil of a speaker phone and in the coil of a galvanometer when he irradiated a radio antenna-wire with radium. A 10-milligram, linear radium source produced a measured 2.6-fold increase in electrical current in the antenna-wire in comparing inaudible radio reception without radium to audible reception with radium.
He then cites
The same year that the English translation of Leimer's paper appeared in Scientific American, 16-year old Alfred M. Hubbard of Seattle, Wash., reportedly invented a fuelless generator, which he later admitted employed radium. Applicant interprets this as implying that Leimer's energy-magnification was utilized by Hubbard with feedback to make it self-sustaining.
And further

Lester J. Hendershot of Pittsburgh, Pa., reportedly demonstrated a fuelless generator in 1928 that was claimed by Hubbard to be a copy of his own device
Further down:

U.S. Pat. No. 4,835,433 to Brown superficially resembles the drawing of Hubbard's device. Brown's device appears to have the same number and essentially the same general arrangement of wire coils as Hubbard's generator, as nearly as can be understood from the newspaper articles depicting that device. Apparently no information concerning either the Hubbard or Hendershot devices was considered during prosecution of the '433 patent. Brown discusses the conversion of energy of radioactive decay products, principally alpha emissions, to electrical energy by amplifying electrical oscillations in a high-Q L-C circuit irradiated by radioactive materials. "During the absorption process, each alpha particle will collide with one or more atoms in the conductor knocking electrons from their orbits and imparting some kinetic energy to the electrons in the conductor thereby increasing its conductivity."

These are the relevant passages in Barbat?s patent application as far as our current enquiry is concerned.

Since everything that Barbat argues is based on a statement by Helmholtz in his groundbreaking paper ?Ueber die Erhaltung der Kraft? (On the Conservation of Force) I reasoned that the best place to start was right there. Having read the paper in the original German many years ago I needed to refresh my memory, especially since I could not remember any exception to the conservation of energy rule.
No wonder I could not remember it. It is an obscure comment by Helmholtz which he later retracted.


This is an English translation of the passage with a comment by Roberto Torretti in his book ?The Philosophy of Physics? of which this is a photocopy.
 
(http://www.keelytech.com/overunity/helmholtzquote.jpg)
 

If Helmholtz had solid reasons, perhaps based on some observation of his, for making this statement we don?t know about it. Be that as it may, it appears that this statement formed the basis of research for a number of people, including Keely, Stubblefield, Hubbard, Leimer, Brown and now Barbat. There is no evidence I am aware of that Tesla used this as well, though he must have been aware of it since he worked with Stubblefield.

I have not been able so far to locate Leimer?s work so I will treat his research as read for the time being.

In my view these people interpreted Helmholtz in this way:

If a flow of force is created by a primary system that creates a flow of force in a secondary system by resonance, the output in the secondary system can be magnified by levelling a flow of force of a different character and velocity perpendicular to it. The resultant output in the secondary system is then larger than the input from both flows.

This is a big statement for it describes perpetual motion.


Or, perhaps more generally: The interaction of the two antagonistic flows creates a beat frequency which heterodynes with a larger field of unknown character and absorbs energy from it by resonance.

Keely did it with pressure waves, Brown, Stubblefield, Hubbard and Leimer used radioactivity and Barbat uses light, which he gets to interact with his secondary coil by coating the coil with cuprous oxide, turning it effectively into a solar cell.

Enough for now, there is more research to be done, but this is the way it looks to me at this stage of the proceedings. Feel free to comment

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 23, 2007, 11:50:45 PM
@ Hans:

Excellent work. I need to back and re-read it once I post these photos of today's efforts.  Here are two photos of the tree array attempt using zinc coated nails and some stranded wire (16 ga.) stripped at the midpoints for wrapping around each nail.  The ends were connected together and a jumper attached.  Results as follows:

7 nail array (- side)                           Carbon rod in the ground (+ side)

1.25 vdc
1.9 vac
.19 mA

7 nail array                                       12" long zinc coated spike in ground about 6" deep.

.1 vdc (This was to show some voltage of the same metals)

12" long zic coated spike in ground 6" deep on n/s meridian (-)          Carbon rod (+)

1.13 vdc
1.7 vac
2.12 mA      (Note, this is the highest amp reading to date )

It was freezing out there.  I will leave the nails in the tree and the zinc in the ground and see if the potential increases over time.

@ Localjoe:

Interesting that you amplified dc voltage with that.  That gives me hope.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 24, 2007, 01:55:41 AM
I was able to stay out for less that 10 mins... Brutal weather. anyways the circuit didnt work that well i think because i used different size caps didnt have 2 of the same as well i used ones in the 330uf to 550uf range and for the effect i think i need to try way smaller caps. It got up to .8 i arc'ed the caps to have  a little fun then i gave into the cold. More tomorrorw
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 24, 2007, 04:00:19 AM
(Quote from Hans) "If a flow of force is created by a primary system that creates a flow of force in a secondary system by resonance, the output in the secondary system can be magnified by levelling a flow of force of a different character and velocity perpendicular to it. The resultant output in the secondary system is then larger than the input from both flows.

This is a big statement for it describes perpetual motion."

Yes, it does.  Fantastic you finding this information for us, thanks.  What I don't understand, as you pointed out to me earlier, this speaks of primary and secondary systems such as in a coil arrangement and, as you said vdc does not benefit from that without the pulse being present.  I did some research on line for my own continuing education and, when looking for dc voltage amplifier circuits...all of them employ ic's that, yes, that's right, provide pulses!  So, my understanding now is that you can't use coils to amplify dc without it being pulsed, just like you stated.  In view of that, how does the above make any sense?  What did they know then that we, or at least me, don't/doesn't know now?

I also did some research on batteries in my textbooks on electronics and, once again , you were correct. (I never doubted you, I just wanted to learn this stuff for myself)  ALL modern car batteries are made from 1.5 vdc cells in series, which produce 12 vdc.  What I can't seem to find is, where do the amps come from?  I mean, a regular car battery has over 60 amps available. (not including "cranking" amps which are much higher numbers) I am getting over 1.6 vdc from one of my earth battery setups and still have not resolved the series hookup yet but, even when I do, how can I get the current up to par with car bats.?  I still feel this is somehow related to electrode surface area and I will invest in the materials required to prove/disprove this if I feel it has a decent chance of working.

In my above earlier post with today's results you can see that the amps were way up just using a large zinc spike in the ground with my carbon rod, but the vdc was also down a bit.  I guess I can try and array of multiple zinc spikes tied together and check the potential with the carbon rod then.  If you can think of any way to attempt to boost the volts and/or the amps here, please let me know.  Thanks again for all of your excellent research.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 24, 2007, 04:11:00 AM
G'day Bill,

A galvanic cell produces about 1.5 V DC, if you want more Volt you have to have more cells. If you want to jack up the amperage you need larger cells, IE larger plates of dissimilar metals.

You are right, where does the AC or pulsed DC come from to create the secondary system.

This is at the moment still a puzzle for me, as I believe I mentioned in an earlier post.

I am far from being able to put a coherent analysis of the system together, I am just reporting what I find in the hope this will map out my next moves :-)

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 24, 2007, 07:17:43 AM
Something I neglected to mention on my tree array data was the distance from the array to the carbon rod.  I just now went out and measured it (it is 25 degrees F) and it's 8.5 feet.  1.25 vdc is not bad considering the guys with the "tree" patent application were getting about half that.  How could this possible be galvanic when my nails were in wood, granted, a living tree with some moisture inside, but the other end of the circuit was 8.5 feet away???  This is very puzzling to me.  I encourage everyone out there to try it to see what they obtain.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: marga dan on November 24, 2007, 11:19:36 PM
can i ask wat the zinc coated screws are, ie the base metal that the zincs coated on woulkd this have an effect on any properties available?
regards
guys
keep it up
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 24, 2007, 11:46:21 PM
@ Marga dan:

I am using zinc (hot dipped) nails and also spikes.  I am not sure what the base metal is although I suspect it is a low grade steel of some kind.  Probably the same with screws, although I am just guessing based on the cost.


Today's test results:

7 zinc nail array on the tree (-) jumped to a 12" zinc spike in the ground 12' away (-) to the carbon rod (+)

1.17 vdc

1.8 vac

2.6 mA

I think I finally figued out the problem with my series tests.  I will attempt more on that tomorrow.  My 30 leds have not arrived yet but by the time they get here, I want to have the power up enough to light them.  I know, not an easy thing to do.  We will see.

Bill (Reporting from Ice Station Zebra)

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 25, 2007, 12:48:35 AM
G'day Bill,

It'll be really interesting to see what happens to the zinc. By rights is should get consumed in the galvanic action.

What fascinates me more, you report 1.8 V AC!  Where the f*ck are those oscillations coming from?

If it was just the galvanic action you should get pure DC.

Keep in touch

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 03:26:29 AM
@ Hans:

The ac had me confused also and it still does.  I have read up to 2.8 vac in some configurations.  But, I read in my electronics text and also spoke to my father, who worked at Bell Labs in Murry Hill N.J. for 16 years (birthplace of the solar cell and transistor) they both said that meters will read ac even if it is not really there.  It is a quirk with the way meters, both analog and digital, are set up.  Stefan said I should use a scope, which I do not have, to see what is really what.  So, as of right now, I don't really know.  I am looking around to see if any of my friends have a scope to use for this.  So far, no luck.

According to the work by the Russians on telluric currents, they said the freq. should be between 1 to 5 Hz.....very low freq.  Localjoe tested with some type of meter and got about 40 to 45 Hz.  If there is an ac component to this we should be able to step it up with the coils but, I have no real idea of what is really going on at this point.  I will investigate further.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 03:56:53 AM
Sorry, I meant to include in my previous post the results of an experiment my father told me to do.  I took a AA battery and checked the voltage:

1.55vdc
2.7vac!!

It showed ac voltage on a dc cell.  This leads me to believe that the meter quirk idea is correct.  But, Localjoe tested the freq. with a different type of meter and showed the frequency so I am not sure.  The readings above are very, very close to what I am getting out in the garden with my electrodes.

Hans:
Try testing a battery for ac and see what you get?  I need to purchase a portable scope...i could use it for the test, and return it... ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 25, 2007, 04:29:04 AM
Well last night I promised an explanation on my steel wire comments and magnets.  Please note none of this is speculation, I'm commenting my findings from exp.

If you haven't seen a video of a homo polar motor it's just a simple screw with disc nefb mag at the bottom hanging from the battery positive and then driven by a wire connected to the negative and brushing on the outside of the magnet. spins upwards of 3000 rpm.  try with copper wire first then try with steel... steel works much better and displays a blueish corona around the magnet. Cool I said... how it applies, wrap say 4 turns of this steel insulated wire around a 40 turn copper coil of whatever you have handy, magnet wire preferable. then touch the two ends as you would have before to - on battery and to the outside of the magnet. connect your meter to the leads of the copper coil and watch the voltage rise proportonally with the speed.  this still worked on one half dead nicad that only was reading .8 v the voltage on my meter after about 30 sec was upwards of 6 to 9 volts and kept going but the magnet spun off...  This didn't work with copper wire  ??? ???.  If the voltage and current were getting now are enough to make this little thing start spinning it should increase its speed until... infinitum or until another force interacts to slow it down eg friction or others things at play.  Figured id share this idea with you folks.
                                                                     Joe               
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 04:38:36 AM
Localjoe:

This is very interesting.  Stubblefield (as you already know) used copper coils with STEEL wire!  Could you please make a rough sketch of this arrangement for me?  I think I follow your instructions but I can't quite picture it.  I have enough junk materials laying about to give it a try, both inside...and out.  I am not sure how to connect the primary and secondary wires together. (I can be a little slow at times)  The faster it runs, the more volts?  I wonder if it could put out enough volts to "charge" the battery then?  And, if hooked up to our earth battery.....who knows?????

Nothing fancy, just a crude sketch with labels for where the wires go and I will do this.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 25, 2007, 05:14:33 AM
I did this Real quick ,so don't mind the extreme artistic expertise  ;D
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 05:34:42 AM
Localjoe:

Well, that's either the homopolar motor coil set up you talked about, or a naked blonde sunbathing on a beach. (that's the beer typing)  Seriously, thanks.  You should see my drawings...actually, I can draw but I am limited to using my mouse on ms paint...it's not pretty.

So, do you over lap the primary to the secondary then?  It appears from your drawing that you do.  I see the ends of the secondary attached to nothing...am I correct?  If this works man.......we can not only run motors but make electricty!!!!  Well, not make it but, tap it.

What kind of steel wire did you use?  I have a lot of wire but none of it is steel.  Are we talking coat hanger here?  I can improvise if needed.  Or, like fence wire?  I can get that.  Sorry for all of the questions but remember, I have been out of school a lot longer than you........ ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 25, 2007, 06:08:20 AM
@Bill ,
          The steel wire is from a power supply i cut apart its insulated stranded and looks similar to any stranded copper and i just wrap 4 turns of it around the copper coil that was 40 turns, the end of the copper is where i put the meter. And yea that was a paint rendition ... seems to be the quickest thing to click on to draw with ya know...   
                                                                                                               Joe
The aero-planes were just a cool find ,figured you'd enjoy  :o Hold the phone those must be ufo's
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 06:41:39 AM
Localjoe:

Thanks for the info.  I get it now.  I printed out your drawing and am looking around for "ingredients".

Here is, I hope, an inlarged pic of the one you just posted.  What the heck is that?  That is not the Avro, which is the only "saucer" I am aware of that the airforce admitted to working on.  Those are F-86 fighters on either side which makes this pic from around early to mid 1950's.  Also, from the terrain, that looks like Edwards AFB in CA. Thanks for posting it.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 25, 2007, 06:45:54 AM
I wish i knew what either of them were ... the one in the back is huge, amazing what they had then and where the public should be now... errrrr.   We'll show em yet with our rods and wires... 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: rice on November 25, 2007, 06:56:42 AM
hey bill
if you need a scope go to a large electrical suppliers in your area and they will loan to you. 
probably top of line portable fluke or something fancy
maybee they want a deposit but they all lend stuff like that.
i am interested to see the wave from your experiment.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 07:21:48 AM
@ rice:

Thanks!! That's a great suggestion.  We have several places like that here but I didn't know they might do that.  I will look into that on Monday.  Of course, then I will have to learn how to use a scope, but maybe they could give me a crash course.  I learn fast I just don't remember anything.  Thanks again.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 25, 2007, 08:16:32 PM
G'day Bill,

Have you considered using your computer as a scope. There are some excellent free programmes available, I have several and I can send you the links if you want. Perhaps one of the electronics guys here will design a probe for you that plugs into the sound card so you can measure the things you want.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 08:29:50 PM
@ Hans:

Thanks!!! That would be great.  I didn't know those programs existed.  Yes, please send me the links and I will check into what I need for a probe.  If anyone on here knows anything about this, let me know.

Right now, I am working on Localjoe's homopolar motor/coil arrangement.  The motor works as advertised...spins very fast.  I am making the coils right now to see about the voltage boost.  If it works inside, I will try it outside on my cell.

Thanks again Hans.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 25, 2007, 09:16:24 PM
G'day Bill

Try this one, the demo version is fully functional but limits you to 15 sec after each start. To remove this limitation is expensive (500 bucks)

15 sec should be enough though. I have others but this one is the king!

http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/OscilloMeter/

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 09:19:04 PM
Hans:

Thank you very much.  I will try it.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 25, 2007, 09:29:26 PM
Hans i was going to try myself but someone told me i would fry a soundcard with anything more than half a volt, any ideas?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 25, 2007, 09:40:37 PM
That's why I suggested to talk to the electronics guys about a suitable probe that prevents this.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 25, 2007, 09:57:03 PM
I love you guys..... I didn't realize you could get a probe to protect the pc  i thought it was just like a trivial thing that you could use for less than half a volt or something... gotta love it I feel stupid, being  humbled at least once once a day seems to encourage mental growth, I like it, and thanks for not being shy Hans. Had you not said  what you did i wouldn't have clicked for me ;D
                                                                            Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 11:37:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzUMPklZG3I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzUMPklZG3I)

Above is a link to a video I just put up on my simple homopolar motor replication.  The lighting is poor as it is raining here today and I am not able to test anything outside. The video is nothing new I just felt like replicating the simple one before moving on to Joe's coil configuration.

@Localjoe:

I am still working on the coil set up that you posted.  I think I can use one of my guitar strings for the steel wire, it should work.  Let me know if you find out anything on the probe designs.  I agree that this forum is a wonderful place for the exchange of information.  With the exception of only one or two, I have found everyone else to be very helpful and knowledgeable.  I just hope your coil circuit does not "Lead Out" more energy than we can handle. Ha ha.

@Hans:

I downloaded that software from the Russian guy.  Looks like a very nice, detailed program.  Thanks.  It is going to take me a while to learn and understand it but, that's what rainy days are for....reading.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 26, 2007, 02:20:06 AM
G'day again guys.

Below is a picture of a motor built by Stubblefield that he ran of his earth batteries. Has anyone here seen a motor of a similar design?

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 26, 2007, 03:16:43 AM
@Bill
         What ive found is if you can get the insulated flimsy steel wire and since its stranded just pry away a single strand at the end where you have it insulated then use that to brush the motor it works way better and you see the effect more pronounced.  Just a tip.  :)
                                                                                                      Joe
                                     
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: rice on November 26, 2007, 03:58:46 AM
if you use sound card or other input on computer use isolation transformer inline.  small one is ok and cheap too
it is 1 to 1 should work if it is ac you are getting from ground
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 26, 2007, 06:38:27 AM
An interesting thing that I discovered by building the homopolar motor as seen in my above posted video.  The screw with the two neo mags on it as seen in the video no longer turns.  I assembled another unit and it worked fine.  then, I went back and tried it again...it also no longer worked.  Does this mean that the mags magnetize the screw after a time rendering it non workable?  Has anyone else experienced this?  I now made a third assembly and I will see if it too quits working after a time.

Great photo Hans, I enlarged the photo and I can't see exactly what the heck sort of motor that might be.  I am puzzled by the long shaft and the apparatus at the top of the structure.  Very interesting.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 26, 2007, 06:53:23 AM
Yes bill i did encounter that and my only recourse was to use different metals until i found one that didnt saturate immedatly as well it helps to pulse it slowly like 3 sec on 2 off 3 on 2 off and you will see it revving up like a swing a little energy timed right will increase speed constantly with no extra input , like the swing same energy put in but you keep going higher.... 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 26, 2007, 07:43:58 AM
@ Localjoe:

What do you mean by "saturate"?  I thought is was magnetization but, when tested, the screws were not magnetized.  I swapped out the magnets and it worked again.  What possible change could take place in the magnets (neos)  that would make this work one minute....and ten minutes later no longer work?  They are still very strong as magnets but no longer work for this motor.  Very strange.  I even tried to reverse the polarity for reverse rotation and....nothing.  I swapped bats and....nothing.  I swapped mags and...it worked again....for a time.  Maybe it does not matter but I would like to understand what was happening here.  If your coil arrangement works, we want it to continue to work.  This research is like pealing an onion, one layer gone, many more exposed.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 26, 2007, 08:43:34 AM
@ Localjoe:

I just wanted to report that I tried my original neos on my original screw (about 6 hours later) and it worked just fine!  What is going on here?  I don't want to get side tracked but, this could be important if we are able to use coils to up our voltage on the earth bats.  What change took place temporarily  in the neos? Why did they reset?

I tried what you said and had only one strand, about a .015 dia. wire touching the mag and it really took off!  In the video I was getting what I considered to be very high speed.  I had to balance the rig so I could go that high.  Well, with just the little wire strand it kept accelerating until all hell broke loose.  The screw shot across the room and was spinning on the carpet in the other room.  This is so very interesting to me.  Let me know what you think.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 26, 2007, 04:44:55 PM
@bill certain metals after a time saturate when in contact with a magnetic feild. Theres a saturation table somewhere, i'll find it for you.
 Usually if you flip the polarity of the battery it'll do it i think theres a possibility that the battery saturates too because while using something else to hold it up i didnt experience quick saturation.

  For example stack a few encyclopedias about foot or so apart, put a piece of glass, plexi, plastic whatever you can find and put one of the neo magnets on top of it so the  attracting side will stabilize the skrewmagnet, at that point we can stand the thing upright and not up side down. you could put  a steel mouse ball or washer upright to hold the skrew thing in the stabilizing feild  beter, Now you would apply voltage at the top metal peice whether it be a ball or nut and at the side of the magnet, either polarity should work, its the concept of appliying electricity to a certin point in a magnet or magnetic conductor and the magnet wants to spin to attract.  Another cool example i cant figure out was with an aluminum mixing bowl, of you connect a clip lead off of a 12 v dewalt battery or whatever ya got handy from negative to the bowl and the tap the positive terminal down jsut for a sec a sparck flys but the magnet also flys toward this, as well with water involed same thing still happens and if you short the battery to the al it lights up with a small plasma where the + wire is touching the bowl in the water. Those are my findings in the past year with neo magnets.  And call me crazy but the only way i can describe what happens when it goes outa control is it seems like its getting swept up its own vortex.. i think this thing creates a pretty wild rotating magnetic feild...
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 26, 2007, 05:38:23 PM
http://www.ladyada.net/library/equipt/diyaudioprobe.html (http://www.ladyada.net/library/equipt/diyaudioprobe.html)

Above is a link to instructions for making a soundcard scope probe that protects the soundcard.  I don't know if it is any good or not but looks pretty easy to make.

@Localjoe:

Great idea on the homopolar motor table design.  I will give that a try.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 26, 2007, 07:16:14 PM
@Bill
            Thanks so much for the scope probe diagram i had been looking for a day or so now for one with no luck this will make this easy to use with my laptop im pumped! Thanks again, and the motor design  with table stabilizer works real well , that method  is what has given me the best results thus far, and highest speed, i didn't want you to think it was some crazy idea that might work. ;D

                                                                                                  Joe                             
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 27, 2007, 01:02:26 AM
@ Localjoe:

No, I didn't think it was a crazy idea Joe.  A crazy idea is to put 2 rods in the ground and expect to get electricity!!!  Now that's a crazy idea....but it works.  I like how you seperated the battery from the direct magnet contact with your design.

As I said about the probe, I have no idea if this guy that designed it knows what he is doing.  (Just found it by surfing) It might pay to search on the net a little more and if we see similar designs then, probably ok.  I wish I knew more about electronics...which is why I am reading as much as I can.  I am more of a hands on type of learner.  Kind of like...wow, don't touch that big capacitor, it will knock you on your ass.  I know this because I did it....very good lesson. Ha ha. Still raining here.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 27, 2007, 01:06:36 AM
G?day all,

As sometimes happens in research fortuitous co-incidences happen that help a great deal. In this case it is a new thread opened up by Stefan http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,844.0/topicseen.html  entitled: Amazing nuclear power converter via oscillating tank circuits !

This is a fascinating circuit in that it describes the Stubblefield earth battery the way I understand it now. In fact, other than irradiating the secondary coil with U 238 from the inside, as opposed to Stubblefield who irradiated the secondary from outside with pitchblende, the idea is exactly the same.

 (http://www.keelytech.com/overunity/radioactive.jpg)

This fits in also with Barbat?s patent. Perhaps we are onto something here, time will tell.

Thanks Stefan.

Here is the original photo with descriptions of the device in question.

(http://www.keelytech.com/overunity/radioactive1.jpg)

Hans von Lieven

 


Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 27, 2007, 01:18:32 AM
Hans:

Great stuff!!!  I downloaded one photo and blew it up (no punn intended) and it appears the uranium is encased in a sealed glass tube of somekind.  I am not up on nuclear physics but does glass block the radiation?  If it does (to make it safe) then how does the radioactivity influence the circuit?  We have many things in our homes that are radioactive, to a point.  Americium, in a small amount, is used in our smoke detectors.  I wonder if enough of that would work in a replication of the design you posted?  I love how this research leads to these type of coincidences as you mentioned.  Probably just the tip of the iceberg.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 27, 2007, 01:39:16 AM
I have been thinking of just that Bill, Americium may be the ticket here. and no, glass does not block radiation, it's just a convenient container and insulates the metal from the coils electrically.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 27, 2007, 07:32:17 AM
Hans:

Thanks for the info on the glass, I didn't think it did either but, I was not sure.  The reason I know a little about Americium is from a book I read entitled "The Radioactive Boy Scout".  This was a true story about a very smart kid going for his Eagle Scout rating.  He decided to make a nuclear reactor for his project.  Long story short, he obtained 100 smoke detectors in a sale from a store going out of business and rigged up a block of lead with a grove cut into it and put his Americium lump ( he managed to melt it together) and bombarded some pitchblend with the resulting focused rays.  He did this at his grandmother's house where he was staying for the summer.  He left this experiment in the shed behind the house and all but forgot about it.  Well, and, as I said, I am not a nuclear physics person, but after a few weeks, this somehow made plutonium in a very rich state.  It set off alarms of those that monitor such things (probably a satelite?) and they had to evacuate the entire neighborhood during the cleanup.  It seems his method was very efficient, much more than he knew. He did not get his merit badge.  I might be wrong about the plutonium but, it made something so highly radioactive that it was picked up by detectors many miles away. (He was in NY state.)  This is a great book and I can find the author if you would like.

Lead is a good shield for radioactivity is it not?  Could one make a device and use lead as a shield?  The apparatus in the picture was great except, how radioactive was it?  Maybe only a small amount?  Stubblefield died of starvation not cancer or radiation poisoning so a little bit of this stuff can't be that bad.  Does Homeland Security monitor this site? (Too late to ask now, ha ha)

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Branko on November 27, 2007, 09:06:23 AM
I just inform you that I am success with Tesla's greatest work 'wheelwork of nature' and 'cosmic ray energy'.
You can found my last thoughts on my page (in bottom part):

http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02.html)

It is real source of energy!
For now it is just embryo, and only first step, but I think it is step to right direction.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 27, 2007, 09:09:54 AM
I think Branko's post was spam.  I have seen the same message in like three other topics, verbatum.  I went to the site and didn't see anything I would consider useful.  but, that is just my humble opinion.


Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Branko on November 27, 2007, 10:11:09 AM
No, it is not spam. It is my life work with Nikola Tesla experiments. Yes, I put this on some other places, because information is important. System is based on collecting energy from air, but without balloons like in Hermann Plauson system. Only differences is that my (or Tesla's) system has not balloons.

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 27, 2007, 06:45:49 PM
@ Branko:

My sincere apologies.  I certainly did not intend to insult your life's work.  I went back to your site and did some reading.  There are a lot of interesting ideas and experiments there.  I am glad you posted your response or I would have passed it by. I guess I am just a little sensitive to "spam" as I have been getting a lot of it lately on several sites. I should not have jumped to that conclusion with your post.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 27, 2007, 06:54:57 PM
G'day Bill and all,

This is a lovely story about the kid with the americium, though it is unlikely to be true as stated. (but then it would be, they would not like anyone to replicate what the kid really did)

There are only 0.2 microgram of americium in a typical smoke detector. In this small quantity it is only an alpha emitter. In order to get the required gamma rays for the kind of reaction the kid was creating you would need something in the order of 3 to 4 grams of the stuff. In that quantity it is seriously hot and requires careful handling. Incidentally, critical mass is about 60 kilograms. You can imagine how many smoke detectors you would have to cannibalise in order to get a gamma emitter, a mere 100 would get you nowhere.

But back to the device under discussion.

I am not convinced that you need a large radioactive source in order to get the postulated effect. We are NOT talking about a nuclear reaction as far as I can tell from my studies so far. If Barbat is to be believed you don't need radioactive material at all, photons will do.

According to Barbat if you took the device, coated the secondary coil with cuprous oxide and replaced the U 238 vial with a light-globe it would still work.

But as I said before it is still early days and a bit more studying is required before we can start experimenting.

The radioactive material however would be better since it does not need a power source and will last for about four hundred years or so. (Americium 241, the stuff commonly used in smoke detectors, has a a half-life of 432.7 years.)

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on November 28, 2007, 12:24:55 AM
Greetings,
Has anyone tried to experiment with coils buried in the ground yet?  I am waiting for wire I ordered and want to try it before I start looking for radioactive materials. ;D
George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 28, 2007, 02:15:29 AM
@Branko: great website!  very nice collection of thoughts and diagrams.  Do you have any experience with coils?  Maybe u could suggest some design for our earth batteries.

@all: two ideas
1) From wikipedia: Granite is a normal, geological, source of radiation in the natural environment. Granite contains around 10 to 20 parts per million of uranium. By contrast, more mafic rocks such as tonalite, gabbro or diorite have 1 to 5 ppm uranium, and limestones and sedimentary rocks usually have equally low amounts. 
What about trying to stick a lump of granite at the core of our coil?

2) If anyone else is following the thread on coils & self-runnung LEDs? http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.0.html
I have got an LED to blink for 5 minutes on the first try.  A tiny charge source such as an earth battery would easily be able to keep this guy chraged provided we can getthe correct voltage using some step-up system...

Akash
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 28, 2007, 03:59:25 AM
@ George:

I have not, as of yet.  But, I am getting closer.  Has anyone else?

@akashh:

This is very interesting information.  I would like to see what Hans has to say about this.  I have been following the Dr. Stiffler replication.  Is that the link you posted?  Some very strange and wonderful things happening there that yes, could prove useful to our experiments. (Sorry, I can't check the link right now, but I will after this post.)

@ Hans:

Yes, I agree totally.  I was not sure what the actual materials and numbers were in the book but, you are correct.  If he found a way to make plutonium or at least, a very hot material of somekind, they would NOT want us, the public to know about it. (or at least how he did it) Oh and critcal mass of americium is 60 kilograms?  So, that means that 61 kg would be bad, right? (Boom!)

I like the photon approach better.  Can't we use the sun in some way to get the photons?  Or, can we get enough power out to power a "photon generator" that will continue the cycle?  This is great, thanks Hans.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 28, 2007, 04:02:22 AM
@ akashh:

No, I see the link is to the tpu experiments.  I have not viewed all of the posts yet but will do so now.  Thanks for posting it.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 28, 2007, 04:46:07 AM
G'day fellows,

I was wondering how long it would take before someone spotted the link between our research and the TPU and Stiffler circuits. It is all part of the same phenomenon I think, the fundamentals of which I am trying to track down.

For me it is a bit early to get into this yet, I have not a lot to base it on so far, but the gut feel is there and since I seem to be progressing very nicely following it I will continue to do so.

A bit more research on literature and then I will try to design a series of experiments to determine just what is going on, if anything.

Keep the faith fellows, it's still early days.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 28, 2007, 06:06:14 AM
Hans:

I very much look forward to any experiment ideas you come up with.  Although, I have to say that I hope none of them involve a 4 legged stool. (Smile)  In my humble mind, the tie I see here thoughout all of this, Dr. Stiffler, Keeley, Tesla, Stubblefield, TPU, etc, is resonance.  I think this is the single thread connecting all of these different technologies. And yes Hans, it is early days for sure.  I am glad I am here for it.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 28, 2007, 06:12:37 AM
Your humble mind is right on the money Bill.

Just consider one thing though, what if resonance has SHAPE !

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 28, 2007, 06:41:51 AM
Hans:

That's brilliant!!!  I love this.  You are making me THINK which is something my teachers and professors could not seem to accomplish.  Ok, the radiation thing.  Radiation is nothing more than particles being emitted by a substance correct?  Well, if you have moving particles then you have rate or a frequency of their emission and, if that freq. happens to be a resonant freq. of the particles (ie electrons) moving in a wire or coil, or, a harmonic thereof, then you get the added boost that we all know that resonance can produce.  Could this be what Helmholtz and the others were driving at? I 100% believe that resonance has shape.  Resonance is waves and I have seen them in the ocean.  We also see "shapes" on the oscilloscope as in the Dr. Stiffler idea, although man made but still a representation of the phenomenon.  So, I would say that resonance has "shapes" plural.  I really hate to say this but maybe particle emission from radiation "leads out" multiples of electronic current in a coil through resonance.  That is why I think your photon idea will work.  It probably does not matter where the pulse comes from, but it has to be the right pulse at the right time.  If I ever get to Australia, I will buy you a beer.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 28, 2007, 07:18:14 AM
OK Bill,

Now take it one step further, what if that shape is multidimensional. In other words more than 3D. Who knows what is out there it could be heterodyning with as long as the shape is right.

Unlimited energy, just as Tesla and Keely said.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Branko on November 28, 2007, 10:35:44 AM
I make mistake, and I send post to Dr. Stiffler topic. I write this:

Akashh,

I know that with radioactive is easy to make electricity. Just use plate in air, capacitance and ground (this is Tesla's system for radiant receiver).
But I more like 'clean' ionization (high voltage and high frequency). My investigation go through that idea. I make ionization around plate in air, and free ions and electrons in air going through that path to ground. Transformer for that ionization need to be without ground, and that HF energy need to be recycle. It could make great virtual area. Highest the voltage or greatest space between two transformer plates, and highest height, will make greatest ionization 'cloud' in the air for collecting air current (stratosphere to ground).

On my pages (you ask about coil) i have my equations for coil. But it is standard air coil, and work in the ground will be little different. Important is to have inductance and parasitic capacitance information (for air coil I have good equation). Problem is with resistance, because it is function of frequency (for air coil I make some equations). If frequency is low (I think it is in that earth battery system), resistance can be just measure with standard instrument. Voltage 'amplification' or Q factor is Q=wL/R.

I think that important is to know Tesla's measurement of thunders part of spectrum (from his patent words its is around 30-70 km wave length).

And his bifilar winding coil, has good properties (because of high parasitic capacitance between winding).

My investigation is little different, but source of that energy is the same.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: tishatang on November 28, 2007, 06:23:03 PM
Hi Branko

In looking at your site, I offer the following link as good reading material.

http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html

If you replace the capacitor just above ground in your circuit with a tuned tank circuit, it might raise the voltage dramatically?  Especially if tuned to a harmonic of the received radiant RF energy.

Just an idea.

Tishatang
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on November 28, 2007, 07:11:39 PM
Good work folks,
                  Ive been away for a few days and just had a chance to catch up.  Two main comments id like to focus on, 

 Bill you hit it right on the head of the nail and ive been thinking about it for a minute... Take the reactor diagram from hans and what we have is some emmitting em radiation and inducing current in that coil... We have the sun which emmits uv and a few other types i think why cant we design a coil to be affected by those waves... To find this answer we must evaluate exactly what that uranium does to the magnetic feild and then see if theres a chart that rates different isotopes and effects on magnetic feilds, after that we might be able to deduce what determines yield vs coil size  and  design for where em spectrum this works.  Different wavelengths of light/energy no matter how long or short can be caputred by a antenna either the physical length or half wave length or making one electrically the same size...... So theres something there... and were using silicon wafers silly us...  Good side topic to start in another thread.. summertime.

Second note- Cuprious oxide is the base for a homemade solar panel.... what does this have to do with everything.. made me think.. It can recieve certain wavelengths after cooked down to that part of the metal.

Third note and most important-  The micro tpu idea running off of this is great, and like he said one charge 5 mins or so , if we had that thing constantly filling a small step up circuit connected to a cap, that could then dump into what is there starting cap of there device or possibly power a small function generator.

This is where we need some of the electronics guys help so im calling out, if any of you folks with solid circuit building knowledge can help us we need to design a small dc step up circuit currently the highest voltage is bills readings somewhere in between 1.4 to 1.7 v and a little over 2 milli amps not micro so weve got a little power here, were also able to light up led's with a cap connected. If any folks have any ideas for us on how this could power a small function generator, osiclator, or dc step up for micro or regular tpu, This would be MUCH APPRECIATED :)

                                                                                                         Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 28, 2007, 10:10:45 PM
Stubblefield continued


G'day guys,

I know how tempting it is to shoot off right here and start with a series of wild experiments in the hope something will come of it.

Perhaps it is time for a bit of reflection on what we have so far and see if we can draw any useful conclusions from it. We have examined the work of Keely, Stubblefield, Tesla, Hubbard, Barbat etc. and found that there is a lot more than anecdotal evidence that these guys were playing around with a phenomenon that is currently unacknowledged by mainstream science.

Contrary to popular belief, especially in a forum such as this, there is nothing sinister in this.

Science is loath to admit into a body of accepted knowledge anything that does not conform with its standard of what constitutes acceptable proof. That is proper. Otherwise there would be no difference between science and speculation, however well founded.

By the same token mainstream science is painfully aware that current theories are full of holes in major areas and there is a worldwide effort to fill these gaps and arrive at a better understanding of the world around us and its mysteries. We call that research.

So let us not discard everything that science stands for in favour of some crackpot theory that perhaps sounds nice or fits in better with some metaphysical or religious model.

Scientific investigative procedures are quite sound and have stood the test of time. They do allow for the most outlandish and speculative hypotheses though the burden of proof lies with the one putting up the theories. Extraordinary statements in science require an extraordinary level of substantiation and replication before they become acceptable.

Why am I bringing this up here?

Because it is relevant to our current project, not only that, but relevant to the entire OU debate.

Essentially the difference between the OU movement and mainstream science is that science accepts the laws of conservation of energy whereas the OU movement does not.

There is much talk about energy from a vacuum (Bearden) and energy out of nothing (Omnibus). Such notions are of course idiotic.

Logic dictates that if you can pull something out of a vacuum, or a nothing if you prefer, it wasn?t a vacuum or a nothing to start with.

But there are instances where energy appears seemingly out of nowhere in contradiction to the conservation of energy laws (Sonoluminescence is a well documented example of this).

Which brings us to Helmholtz.

Helmholtz?s seminal work ?Ueber die Erhaltung der Kraft? (On the conservation of force) has become a cornerstone of contemporary science and is accepted as fact.

Well, almost.

Helmholtz states in his book that there is an exception to this, which he partially retracted and qualified some 36 years later. This statement is refuted by science. (see my earlier post that contains the full quote).

The work of Keely, Stubblefield, Hubbard, Barbat and to some extend Tesla rest squarely on that premise by Helmholtz.

So why did Helmholtz say it in the first instance and what brought him to retract it partially years later?

Helmholtz was no idiot. Not only was he a great thinker but he was a great experimenter as well. He made a great many discoveries, especially in resonance and acoustics which are part of accepted science today. He furnished impeccable proof for his discoveries.

I think that Helmholtz found something in his experiments that supported this idea but he was unable to furnish sufficient proof to satisfy his peers.

I believe that Helmholtz is right. It is now up to us to prove it and bring the whole OU idea into the realm of accepted and doable science.

Helmholtz worked with pressure waves. So did Keely. The others use different forms of energy to get the same effects. We need to follow this line of approach and find the fundamental principles involved if we want to solve this.


Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 29, 2007, 07:32:39 AM
@ Localjoe:

I agree 100%.  I was just thinking before I read your post that the Dr. Stiffler replications use a coil, (ferrite coil aka am radio ANTENNA) and, so do the folks over on the micro tpu topic.  So, I think the drill here is to not "generate" electricity but to "receive" it.  I think that when all is said and done, ALL of this is related somehow. (Stiffler, tpu, Stubblefield, etc.)  If I am not mistaken, the sun fires photons at us at an alarming rate.  They strike the earth.  Do they bounce off?  Are they soaked up by the earth?  A photon is a unity of energy and, unless it is converted somehow, it does not just go away.  The information Hans is giving us is important.  It will help to steer us in the right direction.  I also agree that we need the assistance of the electronics guys in designing our circuits. (coils)

@ Hans:

Everything in your last post agrees with my thoughts as well.  If we could only figure out why Helmholtz retracted his statement so long afterward this might be a key.  I agree is was probably pressure of the "accepted" understanding of the time.  Everyone here by now should know how I feel about that. (The earth is flat, heavier than air craft can't fly, etc.)  I also agree that we need to approach this in a somewhat organized manner.  There will be plenty of experimentation to do and we will need all of us to do it. I feel a little bad that I have not been able to achieve higher voltages than my posted results.  We just found out this week that my Father has Leukemia and the prognosis is not very good at this point. He and my Mom live in Florida so there is not much I can do right now but, I really look forward to the posts here which help me to take my mind off of things for a bit.  I love to think and I would rather be thinking of energy, ou, coils, etc than my Father's condition.

Bill

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Branko on November 29, 2007, 08:18:21 AM
Tishatang,

Thanks for suggestion. In my circuit, idea is to recycle all high frequency current. But my focus is on direct current from 'antenna' plates to ground. This is extra current which come from stratosphere. It is always around us (around 1800 A for all Earth). With 1 balloon on 100-300 m height, it could collect few kW of power. I try to build replacement for that balloons. I think that high voltage from Tesla's transformer can do that.

When I was working on some experiment, I am surprise with that direct current (because I remove all diodes from experiment).
And it come when Tesla's transformer is not grounded, and when HF is stopped to go to ground with high inductance ( DC could pass through it). If transformer is put to ground, that current will become 'invisible' (going to ground to).

With only 3 W of power, and 150 V of high frequency, and 1 m2 of plates, that DC current charge 470 uF capacitance in less than 1 minutes to more than 10 V. It could be some rectifier effect (without diodes) or that stratosphere to earth current.

My next step is to build more areas plates, and highest voltage on HF transformer.

I measure charging grounding capacitor (but low energy input), only with plate in air, and inductance (for stopping some HF to come to capacitor).

It is good to know all that effect because in Stubblefield's earth battery system is Fe wire and core. It is not the same, but source of energy is the same.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: rice on November 30, 2007, 12:14:08 AM
incase anyone is interested
it is some good reading

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: tak22 on November 30, 2007, 12:38:07 AM
A bit of Barbat for all that are interested,

A big thanks to Hans for picking up on my cryptic reference awhile back to the patent for a Self-Sustaining Electrical Generator by William Barbat. This patent is my project of choice, but I haven't gotten much further than pulling the patent apart for a list of clues, and coming up with a simplified replication build plan. But maybe what I have done will help others to conceptualize/visualize what Barbat is saying/claiming.

Trivia: Tesla's Self-Sustaining Electrical Generator and the Ether, by Oliver Nichelson (Proceedings of the 1984 International Tesla Symposium)  A naming coincidence?

I've concentrated on working with the cupric oxide (CuO) variation instead of the exotic/expensive photoconductors, doped semiconductors, or superconductors as a source of and conductor of low-mass electrons. Need to find a method for oxidizing copper wire to get the cupric oxide coating.

Finally, before you ask me about wire diameters, # of turns, dimensions, variable caps, etc, just don't, as I don't know the answers. I just know this is my interpretation of the minimum it will take to either get a result, or drive yourself crazy.

First, the simplified replication build plan:

Theory - Low-mass electrons must have originated in a thin-film coating of cupric oxide (CuO) on the wire. CuO is a dull-black, polycrystalline, semiconducting compound that develops in situ on copper wire in the course of exposure to oxygen

Image - see attached barbat_fig3a.jpg

20. Sending coil - single layer of insulated copper wire (formed on a dielectric substrate if desired)

24. Energy coil - single layer of bare oxidized (cupric oxide CuO) copper wire (formed on a substrate transmissive to inductive-photon radiation if desired), with a connector 30 to form a continuous conductor

28a. Output coil - single layer of insulated copper wire, coaxially nested inside the energy coil 24 (formed on a dielectric substrate if desired) . 47a and dotted arrow 47b indicate that the internal output coil actually is coaxially inside the energy coil

46. Feed-back loop - insulated copper wire in parallel with the work loop, with a variable capacitor 77 and variable resistor 50 to make an LC circuit

48. Work loop - insulated copper wire with a resistance load 51 (lamp or resistor)

Starting - momentarily expose the sending coil 20 or feed-back loop 46 to a permanent magnet moved rapidly (either mechanically or manually), relative to the sending coil

Note - relative voltage and current of output power can be varied by changing the ratio of the number of turns in the energy-magnifying coil to the number of turns in the output coil

Next, a subset of indexed points from the patent:

[0110] The feed-back loop conducts a portion of the electric power from the internal output coil back to the sending coil. The remaining portion of the electric power from the internal output coil is directed to the work loop where the power is utilized for useful work (e.g., an electrical resistor). The relative proportions of output power delivered to the feed-back loop and to the work loop can be varied by adjusting a variable resistor.

[0111] An initial source of electrical energy is used for "starting" by initiating an oscillation in the sending coil. After starting, it is self-resonant and no longer requires input of energy from the initial source. The inductance and distributed capacitance of the sending coil plus all other capacitances and inductances in the apparatus provide a certain corresponding frequency of self-resonating oscillation. In the feed-back loop is a capacitor that makes the apparatus an L-C circuit that oscillates at its own frequency. The frequency can be changed by altering the capacitance or the inductance of the apparatus, or both. The capacitor can be a variable capacitor by which the frequency can be adjusted.

[0112] The initial source of oscillating electrical energy can be an impulse from an external electromagnet powered by its own energy source (a battery as shown, dc or ac source). The electromagnet can be placed near the sending coil or other portion of the feed-back loop and energized by a momentary discharge delivered from the battery by a switch. The resulting pulse generated in the electromagnet initiates a corresponding electrical pulse in the sending coil that initiates self-sustaining oscillations in the apparatus. The electromagnet can be energized briefly by an ac source. The initial source can be a permanent magnet that is moved rapidly (either mechanically or manually) near the sending coil or other portion of the feed-back circuitry. The pulse provided by the initial source initiates electrical oscillations in the sending coil that produce corresponding oscillating inductive-photon radiation from the sending coil, as shown by thin, jagged arrows. The inductive-photon radiation from the sending coil causes re-radiation of magnified inductive-photon energy from low-mass electrons in the energy-magnifying coil, as shown by thick, jagged arrows.

[0113] Energy-magnification allows the energy-magnifying coil to induce greater energy in the internal output coil than the energy of the corresponding initial impulse. A portion of the magnified electrical energy is returned to the sending coil via the feed-back loop to sustain the oscillations.

[0114] Surplus energy from the internal output coil is available for useful work via the work loop. In one embodiment some of this useful work can be used for illuminating the photoconduction exciter (circuitry not shown) in an apparatus configuration in which the energy-magnifying coil comprises a photoconductor. In another embodiment some of this useful work can be used for maintaining cryogenic (T<T.sub.c) conditions for an apparatus configuration in which the energy-magnifying coil comprises a superconductor.

[0115] After starting oscillations electron flow builds up rapidly so long as the load does not draw off too much of the output energy during startup. Upon reaching operational equilibrium, the output of electrical power from the apparatus is a rapidly alternating current (ac). The ac output can be rectified by conventional means to produce direct current (dc), and the output can be regulated using conventional means as required. Many variations of conventional circuitry are possible, such as, but not limited to, automatic voltage controllers, current controllers, solenoidal switches, transformers, and rectifiers.

And finally, all the clue fragments from the patent:

low-mass electrons must have originated in a thin-film coating of cupric oxide (CuO) on the antenna wire. CuO is a dull-black, polycrystalline, semiconducting compound that develops in situ on copper and bronze wire in the course of annealing the wire in the presence of air.

sending coil, which is comprised of a metallic conductor

output coil, which is comprised of a metallic conductor

energy-magnifying coil can comprise a semiconductive element or compound that has been doped with a particular element or compound that makes it conductive of low-mass electrons without illumination by photon radiation other than by ambient photons.

the "starting" step can comprise momentarily exposing the first coil to an external oscillating inductive force or to an external magnetic force that initiates an electrical pulse

the production of inwardly radiating and outwardly radiating magnified inductive photons from the energy-magnifying coil

an internal output coil coaxially nested inside the energy-magnifying coil to allow efficient induction of the internal output coil by the energy-magnifying coil

a metallic separator, having a substantially parabolic shape and being situated between the sending coil and the internal output coil, reflects some of the otherwise unused inductive-photon radiation to maximize the effective radiation received by the energy-magnifying coil. Also, the metallic shield prevents the internal output coil from receiving radiation sent from the sending coil.

the metallic separator acting as a shield to restrict the back-force radiation reaching the sending coil while allowing the internal output coil to receive a substantial portion of the magnified radiation from the energy-magnifying coil.

also including respective ferromagnetic cores inside the sending coil and internal output coils. Also depicted is a metallic shield surrounding the entire apparatus.

a sending coil of in which a ferromagnetic sleeve is disposed coaxially around the sending coil.

the transfer of energy by electrical induction was found to work in the same manner as the transfer of energy by the broadcast and reception of oscillating radio signals. A transverse force is communicated in both cases, the force declines similarly with distance, and the effects of shielding and reflection are identical.

the output coil can be made of insulated metallic wire. An exemplary output coil is situated coaxially with and nested within the energy-magnification coil

the oscillations in the energy-magnifying coil are initiated by an external energy-input source that provides an initiating impulse of electron flow in the sending coil. the external energy-input source can be an adjacent independent electromagnet or an adjacent permanent magnet moved rapidly relative to the sending coil. Energy from the external energy-input source is magnified by the apparatus so long as the energy-magnifying coil does not act as an independent oscillator at a different frequency. Independent oscillation is desirably avoided by connecting the ends or terminals of the energy-magnifying coil to each other in such a way that it results in one continuous coil

a feed-back loop arranged in parallel with the work loop that includes the sending coil, and with a capacitor located in the feed-back loop to make it an L-C circuit. becomes self-resonating, which allows the external energy-input source to be decoupled from the apparatus without causing the apparatus to cease production of electrical energy.

takes advantage of the fact that the inductive back-force sent from the output coil to the energy-magnifying coil (and hence ultimately back to the sending coil) arrives at the sending coil one cycle behind the corresponding pulse that initiated the flow of electrons. This one-cycle lag of the back-force, as well as a corresponding one-cycle lag in the feed-back, enables small starting pulses produced in the sending coil to produce progressively greater electrical outputs each successive cycle. Consequently, assuming the electrical load is not excessive during startup, only a relatively few initiating cycles from the external energy-input source typically are needed for achieving production by the apparatus of an amount of output power sufficient for driving the load as well as providing sufficient energy feedback to the sending coil in a sustained manner.

a half-cycle of the one-cycle lag occurs between an initial acceleration of electrons in the sending coil and a corresponding initial oscillation in the energy-magnifying coil.

a second half-cycle lag occurs between the acceleration of low-mass electrons in the energy-magnifying coil and the corresponding electron flow induced in the output coil. The feed-back from the output coil boosts the electron flow in the sending coil one whole cycle after the initial pulse.

the sending coil is shown having a desirable cylindrical profile, desirably with a circular cross-section as the most efficient configuration. The sending coil can comprise a single layer or multiple layers of insulated metal wire (e.g., insulated copper wire) forming the coil. One layer is sufficient, but an additional layer or layers may increase operational efficiency. If necessary or desired, the turns of wire can be formed on a cylindrical substrate made of a suitable dielectric.

energy-magnifying coil that desirably has a cylindrical profile extending parallel to the sending coil. the energy-magnifying coil does not terminate at the ends, but rather it is constructed with a connector to form a continuous conductor. desirably is a helical coil. If necessary or desired, the energy-magnifying coil can be formed on a substrate that, if used, desirably is transmissive to the inductive-photon radiation produced by the coil.

the relative amount of the total energy of inductive-photon radiation received by the energy-magnifying coil is determined by the angle subtended by the energy-magnifying coil, relative to the entire 360 degrees of inductive-photon radiation from the sending coil.

of the magnified inductive-photon energy radiating from the energy-magnifying coil, substantially half is directed inwardly, and substantially the other half is radiated outwardly.

the internal output coil and the conductors of the work loop desirably are made of insulated metallic (e.g., copper) wire.

aside from the small amount of inductive-photon radiation lost from the ends of the energy-magnifying coil, the relative amount of the magnified inductive-photon radiation providing the back-force on the sending coil is a function of the angle subtended by the sector, compared to the 360-degree radiation from the energy-magnifying coil.

the conductors of the feed-back loop can be made of insulated metallic wire. The relative proportions of output power delivered to the feed-back loop and to the work loop can be varied by adjusting a variable resistor.

after starting, under usual operating conditions the apparatus is self-resonant and no longer requires input of energy from the initial source. The particular inductance and distributed capacitance of the sending coil plus all other capacitances and inductances provide a certain corresponding frequency of self-resonating oscillation. In the feed-back loop is a capacitor that makes the apparatus an L-C circuit that oscillates at its own frequency. The frequency can be changed by altering the capacitance or the inductance of the apparatus, or both. The capacitor can be a variable capacitor by which the frequency can be adjusted.

the initial source of oscillating electrical energy can be an impulse from an external electromagnetpowered by its own energy source (a battery or other dc or ac source). the electromagnetcan be placed near the sending coil or other portion of the feed-back loop and energized by a momentary discharge delivered from the battery by a switch. the initial source can be a permanent magnet that is moved rapidly (either mechanically or manually) near the sending coil or other portion of the feed-back circuitry.

after starting oscillations, electron flow builds up rapidly so long as the load does not draw off too much of the output energy during startup. Upon reaching operational equilibrium, the output of electrical power is a rapidly alternating current (ac). The ac output can be rectified by conventional means to produce direct current (dc), and the output can be regulated using conventional means as required. Many variations of conventional circuitry are possible, such as automatic voltage controllers, current controllers, solenoidal switches, transformers, and rectifiers.

alternatively, copper oxides are formed in place on bare copper or bronze wire by heating the wire above about 260.degree. C. in an oxygen atmosphere, or by application of chemical oxidants.

a second electron of comparatively low mass may have been liberated from cupric oxide by alpha radiation along with the outer copper electron in Leimer's (1915) experiments, since the measured energy magnification exceeded the magnification calculated from cyclotron resonance of CuO, which most likely pertains only to the mass of the outer electron.

use of a single energy-magnifying coil to capture inductive photons from the sending coil results in loss (by non-capture) of most of the inductive photons from the sending coil. This proportion of captured inductive photons can be increased greatly in an embodiment in which multiple energy-magnifying coils are arrayed around the sending coil. the energy-magnifying coils substantially completely surround the sending coil, and (although six energy-magnifying coils are shown) as few as three energy-magnifying coils of adequate diameter still could substantially completely surround the sending coil.

also depicts respective internal output coils nested coaxially and coextensively inside each of the energy-magnifying coils. the overall energy output can be increased by surrounding the array of energy-magnifying coils with an external output coil, of which the conductors desirably are made of insulated metallic wire. In this embodiment approximately half the outwardly propagating, magnified inductive-photon radiation from each energy-magnifying coil is received by the external output coil. When this externally directed inductive radiation captured from all the energy-magnifying coils is added to all the inwardly directed radiation captured from the energy-magnifying coils by their respective internal output coils , the total energy received by the output coils, greatly exceeds the back-force energy directed by the energy-magnifying coils toward the sending coil. Thus, the resulting energy "leverage" exhibited by the apparatus is increased substantially by including the external output coil.

whenever multiple energy-magnifying coils are used, the respective directions of electron flow in them desirably occur in the same circular direction as viewed endwise. Thus, the flow of electrons in all the energy-magnifying coils is clockwise during one phase of an oscillation cycle and counterclockwise during the other phase.

the energy-magnifying coils desirably are connected together in series, to maintain the same direction of electron flow, which can be clockwise or counter-clockwise . This direction of electron flow in a coil is termed the "handedness" of the coil. If the energy-magnifying coils all have the same handedness, then the termini of adjacent energy-magnifying coils are connected together in a head-to-foot manner progressively in one direction around the group of coils. ("Head" refers to the forward-facing end, and "foot" refers to the rearward-facing end of the apparatus in relation to the viewer.)

connecting the internal output coils together in series is advantageous if it is desired to maximize the output voltage. Alternatively, the internal output coils can be connected together in parallel if it is desired to maximize the output electrical current while minimizing output voltage. \ In this alternative configuration, all the internal output coils desirably are wound with the same handedness, with each coil having two respective leads. The leads at one end (e.g., the foot end) of the coils are connected to each other, and the leads at the other end (the head end) of the coils are connected to each other. The resulting parallel-coil system is connected in a conventional manner in other circuitry

the internal output coils can be connected together so as to provide more than one output circuit (so long as sufficient energy is produced for use as feedback to the sending coil and for use in establishing conditions favorable for producing abundant low-mass electrons). The relative voltage(s) and current(s) of output power alternatively can be varied by changing the ratio of the number of turns in the energy-magnifying coils to the number of turns in the internal output coils.

certain features can be incorporated with any of the embodiments to add functional practicality. a ferromagnetic core can be disposed inside the sending coil, and ferromagnetic cores can be disposed inside respective internal output coils. These cores increase the inductance of the apparatus, which lowers the frequency of the electrical oscillations produced by the apparatus. Although increases in inductance can cause the output voltage and current to be out of phase, the phase difference can be corrected by adding capacitance to the circuitry by conventional means. Also shown is an external metal shield that completely surrounds the apparatus to block any radiation from the device that could interfere with radios, televisions, telephones, computers, and other electronic devices. The shield can be comprised of any of various non-magnetic metals such as aluminum or magnesium.

an alternative means of increasing the inductance, a ferromagnetic sleeve is disposed coaxially around the sending coil.

the respective dimensional ratios of various components generally remain similar with respect to each other for different apparatus sizes, except for the longitudinal dimension, which generally can be as short or long as desired up to some practical limit. The respective gauges of wires used in the sending coil and the output coils are commensurate with the electric current carried by these wires, and the respective thicknesses of insulation (if used) on the wires are commensurate with the voltage.

the outside diameter of the internal output coils desirably is only slightly less than the inside diameter of the respective energy-magnifying coils, thereby ensuring close proximity of each internal output coil with its respective energy-magnifying coil. At a sacrifice in efficiency, the outside diameter of the internal output coils can be made smaller to allow space for heat from the current-carrying wires to escape or be removed by a coolant such as forced air

desirably, the external output coil is connected in series with the internal output coils to maximize the output voltage and to minimize heat produced by the electric currents in the apparatus. The output voltage can be stepped down and the output electrical current can be stepped up to normal respective operating ranges using a transformer, wherein the primary of the transformer would comprise the load in the work loop.

the photoconductive coils desirably are coated using clear varnish or enamel to provide electrical insulation and to protect the photoconductors from oxidation and weathering.

tak
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: supersam on November 30, 2007, 02:00:39 AM
tak,

is this a TPU or what?  am i just imagineing this or all of these things being attemted in the TPU thread?  it seems to be not only the starting mechanism that has been missing but most of the theory.  combined with the earth battery, i guess this takes alot of the guess work out of "free energy" !!!!!

GREAT FIND!!!!!

lol
sam
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: tak22 on November 30, 2007, 02:37:23 AM
sam,

no, I don't think it's a TPU or an earth battery, I think it's a missing link  ;) I'm sticking with this replication attempt until either I get it to work, or someone else conclusively proves it false. simplicity has to win sometimes  ;D

I'll limit my posts here so as not to distract from earth batteries.

tak
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: BRAHMA on November 30, 2007, 07:28:03 AM

@all: two ideas
1) From wikipedia: Granite is a normal, geological, source of radiation in the natural environment. Granite contains around 10 to 20 parts per million of uranium. By contrast, more mafic rocks such as tonalite, gabbro or diorite have 1 to 5 ppm uranium, and limestones and sedimentary rocks usually have equally low amounts. 
What about trying to stick a lump of granite at the core of our coil?


Just following along with this thread and the thread about power generated from a pyramid, I suddenly rememberd that in the actual great pyramid, there are 5 huge slabs of granite above the kings chamber.  Maybe granite is some sort of magnifier.

just a thought
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on November 30, 2007, 02:37:56 PM
@brahma: That's an interesting idea.  I am also following the pyramid thread but was not aware of the granite in the egyptian ones.  I guess one could easily enough wind a coil around a lump of granite and see whether it does anything... :-)

@all... was just reading up on basic electronics and physics.  When I came to the section on magnets it said vary clearly that the earth's magnetic field is not understood yet.   It then talked about natural magnetism vs electromagetism.  In electromagets there's always an electric field and magnetic field present.  One does not exist without the other.  Now why does that not apply to normal magnets?  Maybe it does but the field is closed loop, and we need to find a way to 'break' that?

Another though relates to the tpu.  I was thinking about reversible effects.  I stuck an LED under a bright light and measured voltage!  So I'm wondering whether running the TPU under bright sunlight will show a different run time vs in a dark box.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 30, 2007, 08:37:26 PM
http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/radio/xtal.html (http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/radio/xtal.html)

The above link is to a coil calculator that I found.  You plug in the wire dia, etc. and it tells you what you the frequency the coil will be, etc.  This appears like it might come in handy.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 30, 2007, 09:25:58 PM
Good find Bill,

Sorry for not posting much at the moment, there are a couple of reasons for it. I am having to look after the animals of a relative that is in hospital (she is getting much better) and I am trying to find out if the Helmholtz statement about exceptions to conservation of energy has validity. This much you know.

My reasoning is that if it is real there must be evidence of it in other areas, such as chemistry for instance, since I cannot imagine the principles to be confined to electricity and radiation etc. only. If it is real it MUST apply across the board.

At the moment I am looking at Dr. Griffin's and Dave's work and some interesting things are starting to surface. I will write it up as soon as I have a bit more than I have at present.

So please bear with me, I am still at it.

Hans von Lieven

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: yaz on December 01, 2007, 03:37:13 AM

@all

What do you think about this? An earth power module.
Last schematic on the page.

Quote from the page.

"Hey another cool thing I found is that if you earth both the earth of the circuit to ground and the other end of the antenna to a separate ground, you increase the power dramatically, compared to using a normal antenna and coil."

http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/ambientpower.htm
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 01, 2007, 04:01:43 AM
@ Yaz:

Great link!  This appears to me to be combining both the earth battery (telluric currents) and the interception of radio waves in the air, both man made and natural.  His voltage output was impressive.  We will have to add this into the mix and see what the experimenters can do.  Have you tried any of this yet?  Can you invite the guy from that link to our topic here?  The more minds and ideas, the better.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 07, 2007, 10:29:59 PM
G'day all,

Here is something I found on Tesla that is relevant. This is clearly about the project he was running with Stubblefield.

Tesla vs. Hertz

Tesla was not a theoretician by calling, but he made plenty of observations on the electrical nature of the universe that put him at odds with of official theory. In fashion then (and even now) was the theory of Heinrich Hertz, an interpreter of the physics of James Maxwell. Hertz explained radio propagation as transverse waves akin to light. Tesla was convinced that radio disturbances were standing waves in the ether akin to sound. When you drop a pebble into water, the disturbances you see in the form of concentric circles are standing waves.

Both Tesla and Hertz assumed the existence of an aetheric medium, but differed as to its energy transmitting properties. Tesla believed that the ether was a gas like medium, that electric propagation was very much like that of sounds in air, alternate compression's and rarefaction's of the medium, and that Hertzian waves could only take place in a solid medium. Tesla once said that Hertz waves are radiation and that no energy could be economically transmitted to a distance by any such agency. He said, In my system, the process is one of true conduction which can be effected at the greatest distance without appreciable loss.

When quantum physics and particle theory came into vogue, the aetheric medium was dropped out of electric theory altogether, but Hertz's theory was more compatible with the new concepts of propagation and therefore survived. By way of rubbing this in, the unit of frequency, formerly cycles per second (cps), was renamed in honor of Hertz (Hz), while only an obscure unit of magnetic flux density remembers Tesla. It is in respect to Tesla that I have reverted to the old unit in this book. Hertzian radio is straight-line, light-like radiation's that bounce off hills and mountains. Long distance Hertzian transmissions are explained in terms of radiation's bouncing off a radio reflective upper layer called the ionosphere. Tesla thought this was all nonsense and declared in 1919 that Hertzian thinking has stifled creative effort in the wireless art and retarded it for 25 years. Hertzian radio is aerial.

Most of us are conditioned to thinking in terms of aerial radio; the air waves, on the air. Tesla's radio is grounded; the lower end of the energized coil is rooted in the earth. Pure Hertzian radio has no such natural load. Tesla doesn't speak of antennas as such; the element he places aloft is an elevated capacity. Tesla said radio devices should be designed with due regard to the physical properties of this planet and the electrical conditions obtaining in same. Grounded radio is indeed more powerful than the Hertzian aerial. But this is true particularly for the frequencies Tesla was using. The higher frequencies do behave in a Hertzian manner. Yet grounding is all but a lost concept in consumer electronics. Up through the 1940's, AM radio receivers customarily had a terminal one was encouraged to connect to a cold water pipe or other deep earth connection. Ground the chassis of any of today's receivers, and, unless there is some kind of interference coming up through the ground (from fluorescent circuits, light dimmers, which are oscillators, or from the local Tesla coil), you will usually improve signal strength and range.

Among Tesla's contributions to radio was remote control. Tesla demonstrated a radio-controlled boat before crowds at Madison Square Gardens and sent another robot craft 25 miles up the Hudson River. Grounded radio works particularly well through water. Tesla's basic radio tuning tank circuit for receiving (coil plus capacitor between antenna and ground) was, and is, all by itself, a powerful signal amplifier, and a beautifully simple one, at that. But as radio developed over the years, the tank circuit shrank in size and the result was a loss in gain. This was compensated for by the addition of stage upon stage of complex amplification circuitry.

Tesla watched this development with bewilderment. Tesla knew that the most efficient long-distance radio took place in the lower frequencies, especially those close to the earth-resonant frequency. Frequencies well below the AM broadcast band were the favored ham frequencies in the early days prior to World War I. In fact, waves of 600 meters (500 kc) were considered short while considered fairly long were the waves of 1200 meters (25 kc). Like a lot of good real estate, many of these more radio-effective frequencies below the AM broadcast band have been appropriated for military use, but also for navigation beacons, weather stations, and time registers.


Source: http://www.frank.germano.com/lost_inventions.htm

Hans von Lieven

EDIT: On another page on the same website:

These are the words of Nikola Tesla, spoken in 1937; (part of a larger speech)

One of my most important discoveries--terrestrial resonance--which is the foundation of wireless power transmission and which I announced in 1899, is not understood even today. Nearly two years after I had flashed an electric current around the globe, Edison, Steinmetz, Marconi, and others declared that it would not be possible to transmit even signals by wireless across the Atlantic. Having anticipated so many important developments, it is not without assurance that I attempt to predict what life is likely to be in the twenty-first century.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 08, 2007, 03:20:35 AM
@ Hans:

Once again, excellent information, thank you.  From what I have read of Tesla, the earth can and does act as a meduim for signal transmissions. (ie energy?) It is very interesting to me that he knew, even then, the resonant freq. of the earth. (very low)

@mramos:

I agree.  I have been following the Stiffler experiments and have always been wondering how we can tie this to the earth battery experiments we are working on here.  Please let us know of your results.  There are a lot of good minds here and I think we can get a handle on this thing before too long.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 08, 2007, 04:49:32 AM
@ Hans:

Once again, excellent information, thank you.  From what I have read of Tesla, the earth can and does act as a meduim for signal transmissions. (ie energy?) It is very interesting to me that he knew, even then, the resonant freq. of the earth. (very low)
Bill

It is no surprise to me that Tesla knew the what is called now resonant frequency of earth about 7.8 Hz (Schumann resonance). With his earthquake machine he would have had to go much. much lower than this to cause the effects he did.

I seriously doubt though that Tesla was referring to the Schumann resonance.

According to Wikipedia: The fundamental mode of the Schumann resonance is a standing wave in the Earth-ionosphere cavity with a wavelength equal to the circumference of the Earth.

I think that Tesla was referring to the resonnant frequency of the ENTIRE MASS OF THE EARTH, which would have to be much lower.

How he cottoned on to this and how he measured it with the instruments of the day is an enigma to me.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: JT133 on December 08, 2007, 05:02:16 AM
Hey Guys!
  Interesting topic. I was doing some in-depth reading on earth battery experiments awhile back and I remember that they,
 ( I don't remember who), were sending a charge into the ground to get it going- like a syphon I guess. After that they would get a greater charge that would keep giving and get larger with time. I don't know if it works or helps but I thought i'd mention it.-JT
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 08, 2007, 05:04:54 AM
Good memory JT,

This is indeed what they claimed. The same idea is also reflected in the Barbat patents.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 12, 2007, 07:58:35 PM
G'day all,

Have a look at this gentlemen and let me know what you think. Interesting document. (about 12 pages or so)

http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/earthbattery/ebpage1.htm

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 12, 2007, 11:49:10 PM
@ Hans:

Fantastic find!!!  I just read the entire thing.  I don't know if this guy is right about everything he says but it gives us more information for our work here. Great job.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 13, 2007, 09:01:22 PM
G'day Gentlemen,

Have a look at this one. This video was created by Mark Snowswell.

About it he says:

I came up with this idea a little while back and figured it was time to make it public...

The attached video describes how charge applied to a Toroidal Bi-filar Capacitor (TBC) will result in an electrostatic pulse traveling around the centre of the toroidal path in sync with the TBC charge front.


Classical EM analysis shows that you get complimentary electro static field's (ESF) inside and outside a TBC. These ESF's occur and follow the pulse front as the TBC charges up. The animation depicts the generation of the ESF pulse generated inside the TBC. Not shown is the complimentary ESF that surrounds the pulse front on the outside.

The idea is that the ESF pulse drives a current pulse along a central accumulator. In an operational device the TBC would be made in 4 segments with each segment firing sequentially -- triggered by the pulse arriving from the previous segment. You could also try a segmented accumulator (collector) with each segment connected to the next TBC segment.


To which I wrote back:

Thanks Mark.

Brilliant animation and reasoning.

I take it that this does not only apply to a toroid coil but would equally apply to a standard coil wound in this manner. Like the Stubblefield coil for instance.

Is this correct?

Hans von Lieven


Mark's answer to my question was:

Yes. When pulse charging any bifilar capacitor there will be a ESF pulse that travels down the center of the coil. There is also an oposing polarity circular ESF pulse that travels down the outside of the coil.

Mark.


The video is here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2764.0;attach=15283

This fits in very nicely with my overall idea how Stubblefield's system works.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on December 14, 2007, 03:17:00 AM
Hi All,

For those of you who do get 1.1-1.2 volts at low current (5ma or more) - here's how to get it up to 5V.

http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/PowerSupply5vSolar/PowerSupply5vSolar.html

(http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/PowerSupply5vSolar/images/5vSolarAuto.gif)

It's stolen from another site made to convert a solar cell to 5V for a data logger.
Actually this is maybe more interesting, it explains how to power a pulsed LED garden light from a very small voltage: http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/SolarLight/SolarLight.html
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 15, 2007, 01:11:49 AM
Akashh:

Do you think this circuit would work?  Thanks for posting it.  Has anyone tried it yet?  I'll see if I have the stuff here to build it.

Hans:

In the system shown in the video...where would the pulses come from?  Would they need to be manual/mechanical or electronic as from a chip of somekind?  If electronic, what type of chip/timer would be required?  The more I learn the more I realize what I don't know.  The wire coil looked to be using two insulated wires or am I not correct on that?

Bill

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on December 15, 2007, 03:09:15 AM
@Bill:  Yes it should work although I have not built it.  The second link is a standard circuit used in most LED garden lights, and the first seems to be a take on that.  Just have to get the coil winding right. Let me know how it goes, I'm going to try building one too but I cannot find the right ferrite bead at the moment.
Actually, this is more what we need - the other circuit would only switch on at night.
(http://5vEarthBat.gif)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 15, 2007, 09:10:53 AM
i have not read all of the posts here but i have gotten a good start. i have a lot of random information rattling inside my head but i hope in this daze of sleep deprived drunken confusion i can manage to get it out coherently.

i have been experimenting with the john hutchison crystal battery and started a bit with tesla's wireless. so far i have not been able to harness any wireless electricity from tesla but from the crystal battery i found a couple of interesting points.   my setup is a film canister roughly a c-d sized cell battery type full of sand and salt water. this with aluminum foil electrodes (both from non stick aluminum foil in the house) generated a voltage that slowly decreased over the course of about 4 hours (roughly) it started at .8 and reached .2 before i stoped the experiment. i do not know the current i fear my cheep volt meter is fried for current reading. but it did carry a load of 50k ohm for that short time and also generated hydrogen gas (very little) i found later that the aluminum was rusted or oxidized. i believe magnesium reacts with most metals and caused this (magnesium is in table salt if i remember correctly) so what i created was really just a crazy battery. not sure if it helps but to point in a possibly negative area, there are some eliments that will generate electricity even if the electrodes are the same material (not supposed to happen by science according to a high school teacher) i seen mention of batteries and what makes the voltage or current, according to what i have read each chemistry in a battery (the metals used for electrodes and the electrolyte used) determins a specific voltage for that battery. a lead acid has a specific or characteristic voltage of 2 volts (6 cells in a car battery) and alkaline batteries 1.5 nimh batteries are 1.25 i believe. so our chemistry should determin the volts and the conductor or electrode area determins the current.  but then this is modern battery science not earth creative science.......  they dont account for magnetic flux, solar flares, radio transmitions,  if someone turned on a major appliance, lightning or other effects.

on a side note, i like quartz, if you put a fluctuating voltage in it resonates. if you put a radio frequency in it generates a current..  the only sad part is i cant figure out how to get it to generate the current without the antena  ???   oh and i did a control experiment, i used salt and quartz sand same as before but without the water, i cooked it on the stove. it didnt generate any voltage.  water seems to be needed to do anything here.

also, there was mention of a ham radio operator who got a lot of voltage off of a antena and ground? has anyone played with a combination of antena and ground?  seems to me there would be a greater difference available there than with the ground alone.

hope my ramblings are in some way useful.

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jrader on December 15, 2007, 04:35:52 PM
try this,flat carpenters pencil for positive,zink or roofing nail for neg,solution of regular bleach,and white vinegar,table salt got over 2 volts, voltage with plain water also but not much.
                                  jrader
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 15, 2007, 07:22:28 PM
@ Artic Knight:

I believe I was the one that posted about radio talk show host Art Bell and his Ham antenna set up in the high desert of Nevada.  He was getting so much voltage that he was frying his equipment left and right.  Also, this was the desert so no chance of water being the electrolite there, as some say all of this is just pure galvanic reaction.  I agree that possibly using an antenna array along with the earth "ground" may allow for much better energy collection.  I think someone somewhere (Russia perhaps) is doing just that and I believe there is a post or two on here that refers to it.  I am getting voltages off of a tree in front of my place in an experiment mentioned on here earlier as well.  Maybe the trees are acting as antennas in some way?  Funny thing is, my tree at least, is neg. and the earth ground then becomes pos. (Using my carbon rod)  I'd have to look it up but I believe I was getting 1.25 vdc.  I am still awaiting the arrival of my 40 or so leds I ordered from Asia a while ago.  I want to see how many I can light at once and I am also going to attempt to build the voltage amp. that akashh posted.

I have been following Hutchison for years and I like his "energy cells" made from stuff he finds outside and cooks in his oven.  I think the sand you mentioned, quartz, is interesting.  Have you been following the pyramid experiments thread where they have a coil set up under a pyramid that uses sand in copper pipes and carbon rods?  In the end, if there is an end, I think we will discover that all of this is related in some "unified" way.

@Jrader:

Try the same setup outside aligned along the north/south meridian and see what you get.  Keep your polarity the same.  Stab around in the ground to find the true polar n/s in your area (highest vdc reading) and then try increasing the distance between electrodes and watch the volts go up.  At a certain point, around 5 feet for me, it will stabilize or begin to drop off.  Let us know of your readings.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 16, 2007, 05:16:59 AM
ok finished. took me atleast 6 hours but done! 

bill since you started playing with this i have a experiment for you. this homopolar motor spun very fast right? perhaps find a way to suspend it (least resistance possible.) and run it but this time do it like the origional homopolar design here is the link

http://alvelda.blogspot.com/2007/04/make-homo-polar-motor-in-five-minutes.html

now you see how he uses one wire? it has a north and south or positive and negative maybe anyways get a couple extra magnets and stick them out to the side. get the motor jump started and spinning and see if the magnets on the side will generate more spin than resistance? an old school electric demo motor on steroids!  what im thinking is one side of the wire will be negative from the spinning in the magnetic flux and the other positive and by doing this simple generation of electricity maybe it will be enough to keep spinning the wire?  the only thing is i havent figured out yet how to eliminate the battery from this and keep it standing unless a small plastic cylender is used?  a little off topic i know but hey im here just to make free electricity and if it runs well that way maybe it will answer a question or two? and make 5 more  ;D

i have some loose copper wire floating around, a radio shack special too ;D i will run some experiments trying to harness a combo wireless ground energy shortly.

ps im in GA
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: 2toxic4u on December 16, 2007, 06:40:01 AM

Hello everyone,

Sorry to butt in, but I was asked by Jeanna and Pirate88179 to post this video here:

http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d81/emibre/?action=view&current=Earthpower.flv

Best regards
2toxic4u
---------------
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 16, 2007, 06:49:32 AM
ok im under the impression we are working on practical free electricity so if i go off topic or reach something we do not want to discuss just let me know and i will try to rectify it :) and im drinking again so hopefully ill make sense.

ive looked at a couple of things related to tesla, since he was our electric father of sorts and since he had the wildest experiments (just down right fun!) maybe theres something there and heres some half baked ideas to toss around.

hopefully my picture is attatched, however in the picture i found they describe the primary source of tesla coils is the resonating of the coil. apparently it pulses the current, so if this resonating of the frequency builds up the voltage radically high then we have radient electricity coming from the coil right? in which tesla said he could light florecent bulbs? and if this is the case how about windings to harness this same electricity produced to power a high voltage low amp heater unit? like one of those steel metal filiment types that get red hot? the way i figure it (trying to do something practical just for fun) if you only get a low amount of resistance and heat from the heater you can leave it on 24/7 and heat your home at a steady temp and light it all powered by this ground source electricity. and the heater wont be too hot to touch even  ;)

so ground source electricity goes into a makeshift tesla coil to power lights and resistance floor heater wirelessly. what do you think? do we have enough from our experiments to make this potentially possible?

does anyone have a lotta junk lying around?  :P  im thinking i might play with the tesla myself.

hey on a side note what if we use this "resonating frequency" to send a pulse back into earth? i wonder if we would get a cumulative bouce back like the swing set theory?

my head hurts..... :-\
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 16, 2007, 07:25:17 AM
@ 2toxic4u:

Welcome to our experiments.  Locajoe started this topic and I was busy working away on magnet motors when I instantly switched my efforts to this area.  I know it's a long thread but if you can take the time, read over the earlier posts.  We have, thanks to Hans and others, a good history of the research and success of this device from the past.  Localjoe even offered a circuit that involves a homopolar motor to boost our voltage output.  My video posted stinks but at least it gives one an idea that this works.  I enjoyed your video and will probably ask for help in a series arrangement of my electrodes.  With what you have right now, one could assemble 100 of them and look at the volts!!!!!  We are looking at coils, and Stubblefields designs and...well.....everything.  I am really surprised you could not light your led.  Of course, there are all sorts of them with various ratings. (I am just learning this)  We also have amplifier circuits to explore, pulses, electric trees...etc.  We look forward to your input and results.

@ Artic Knight:

We have several circuit designs posted here now that I would like to explore.  I am still learning electronics but it appears to me that if we could use a trim pot, or something that would allow us to "tune" our pulses, we should be able to find a resonant freq. or freqs that would give us the additive effect that you describe.  Stubblefield heated his home with earth batteries with an unknown device.  Was it a simple resistance heater?  From the description, I don't think so.  It was said that it consisted of two highly polished metal spheres spaced some distance apart.  I have no idea what the hell that might have been.  I do like the idea of finding the resonant freq. and see what that does to the power.  Power is everything.  With enough power, we could run ANY type of heater we wanted.  I love this topic.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 16, 2007, 07:42:48 AM
perhaps it was an old old old fashioned microwave oven?   ;D 

um well speaking of coils heres just a rant, might lead to something tho. no productive information is available.

http://teslapress.com/blackout.html
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 16, 2007, 08:17:10 AM
Artic Knight:

Great article.  I really liked the part where they get thousands of volts using hardly any amps.  The amps have been slow in coming here with our cells...milliamps is really all we are getting thus far.  There was a video I posted way back from a guy that said he was getting, I think 2 amps from his design.  I don't know if that was an error on his part or if it was because he was using rods that were about 8 foot long.  More surface area should equal more amps I think is what we have decided from our research.  Microwave?  Hmmmm..... if he was pulsing at very, very high frequencies (microwave freqs.) then I guess that might be possible.  Maybe Stubblefield did not die of starvation like they think...maybe he litterally cooked himself?????  Interesting idea.  The M.E. that examined him said that when he walked into his cabin it was warm.  Would not microwaves heat just the humans, or rather excite the water molecules in the humans and not the surrounding environment?  Of course, there could have been water vapor in the air...........all this thinking gives me a headache but at least I am using my brain for something useful for a change.  Ha ha.

BIll
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 16, 2007, 08:36:26 AM
roast man anyone? LOL  well microwaves heat water but then microwave ovens run at 2.5GHZ? the same as your cordless phone in your house (i preferr 900mhz has better clarity and range) and your cordless doesnt heat you so there is definately some energy needed to do this however reflectors make me think microwaves.  and ive never tried to cook myself in an oven so not sure how that feels but i would imagine it feels like sitting infront of a fire... heat radiation flying at you from a powersource just sounds like fire and radient heat to me.

any hoot. ive been geeking out over tesla coils and you guys HAVE TO SEE THIS! just some geek fun.  some people get all the best toys!!  http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ff_AXVlo9U

i think if you dont use the spark gap it becomes a step up wireless transformer... ill try to play with it later.  note the florecents glowing or are they neons?  ;D
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 16, 2007, 09:51:47 AM
Hey guys, you are getting close and once you get the right frequencies, I believe you will have the key to most all of everyone?s devices that are trying to be built here. I am almost sure of the need for the pulse do to the earths frequencies being retrieved as pulses. I would start with the earths frequencies first which I do believe was said to start at 7.8 and go up in multiples of that number.
 
 I also think that Telsa was trying to transmit the frequency that is needed. Once he was shut down, I believe he figured a away to order the frequency using a TPU device.

 hansvonlieven, I to am fascinated with Hutchinson?s work. His accumulation of certain crystallized fossils and the activating the with heat makes a lot of sense. The crystallized fossils order the frequency that is needed and once they are collected, they seam to stay active and I think it is because they form a magnetic field that acts as a receiver for that frequency.
 
 I believe the same is needed for the pyramid design some are working on. The quartz sand they are using my just need to be heated to activate it and once it is heated, the design acts like a antenna.

 I believe that same concept is needed with the TPU's some are building. I believe once the frequency is figured out, it is then ordered by the magnetic field causing it to over flow and force its way out of the TPU through the wiring. I am also thinking that once it becomes over flowing, it can be transferred by way of antennas. This would eliminate the need for house wiring.

 Another set up was the two rod set up that has me thinking. It was said to have 73 different elements in one rod and 74 in the other. I am thinking that those elements are actually crystallized fossils like Hutchinson was referring to. We know that certain crystals attract certain frequencies and I think it is just a mater of figuring out which ones are really needed so we can duplicate them and or retrieve them from the earth.

 I am new to this but I feel that I am starting to figure things out. I am starting to think that there is no such thing as electricity and that electricity is really just a frequency and or a accumulation of different frequencies.

  Electrons? The whole theory behind electrons doesn't make sense to me. They say electrons are in wire and moving magnetic fields around the wire will make the electrons flow. Are you serious? If they were to say that electrons are bits of a frequency, then I could make sense of what a electron is.
  My theory is that the magnetic field draws the frequencies and the larger the magnetic field, the larger accumulation of frequencies can be acquired. I believe that the movement of the magnetic field only makes the field larger and therefore attracts a larger amount of frequencies. 
 I am also thinking that the earth is actually a positive source and the atmosphere is a negative source. I get that theory from the certain earth fossils attracting frequencies. I am starting to think that all these laws of physics are used to throw us off from the truth and our education systems are used to brainwash us when it comes to science and physics.

 This maybe idiotic but it does make sense to me. Please remember that I am a 9th grade drop out with no other education other then what I have taught myself over the years. This maybe why I have such way of to the left ideas that don?t make much sense to everyone else. I keep getting laughed at about my ideas and I cant wait to start building some designs to prove my theory's and or to prove my ignorance if that maybe the case. I wish I would have thought to study this field long ago so I could have more assurance about the way I feel about these things.

 You must also realize that I stand firm on my beliefs unless I can be proven wrong and I can see it for myself and or my common sense understands how I am wrong because it may be explained to me in a way that could change my opinion.

 Well I hope this makes sense and if not I hope everyone at least got some entertainment from my ignorance. I also hope no one hurts themselves from laughing to hard.

 I am sure that we can all agree that energy is free and it only takes having a way to retrieve and accumulate it so we can use it on demand.

 Happy Holidays to all.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 16, 2007, 10:03:37 AM
 
roast man anyone? LOL  well microwaves heat water but then microwave ovens run at 2.5GHZ? the same as your cordless phone in your house (i preferr 900mhz has better clarity and range) and your cordless doesnt heat you so there is definately some energy needed to do this however reflectors make me think microwaves.  and ive never tried to cook myself in an oven so not sure how that feels but i would imagine it feels like sitting infront of a fire... heat radiation flying at you from a powersource just sounds like fire and radient heat to me.

any hoot. ive been geeking out over tesla coils and you guys HAVE TO SEE THIS! just some geek fun.  some people get all the best toys!!  http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ff_AXVlo9U

I think if you don?t use the spark gap it becomes a step up wireless transformer... ill try to play with it later.  note the florecents glowing or are they neons?  ;D

 Think about that. They both run off the same frequency but they use different amounts, I will call them amps of frequencies. This is the same concept Tesla had by trying to emit the frequencies in to our atmosphere. It was doing so using great amounts which is where he gets the lightning effect from. It comes out in large amounts and it is attracted to other frequencies and the largest amounts strike the earth because the earth holds most of the frequency and or frequencies he used.

 It makes sense to me anyway. LOL
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 16, 2007, 12:30:09 PM
Sorry to have high jacked this thread as well as others with my insanity and I have decided to start a new one just for the subject of either my ignorance, insanity and or quest for figuring out what is needed and most efficient for accumulating and or storing of energy.

 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on December 16, 2007, 01:17:49 PM
[removed, duplicate post]
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on December 16, 2007, 01:44:55 PM
@nightlife:  I guess that a new thread would be good, since we're really focussed on trying to find a way of harvesting the earth's energy here - although it does diverge into other topics in the meantime, but we somehow manage to bring it back to topic.

@all:  the copper pipe video is good, but according to me that's purely galvanic - notice the way the plastic is insulating the copper from the ground.  Also the fact that he can get double the voltage by putting 2 in series indicates that it is not connected to the earth.  The same voltage will be present if you were to remove the 2 rods and place them on a table (I tried it some time ago) but that's all it is - purely voltage.

I would try and set a first goal for us.  Let's say getting 10 or 20 mA at 1.2 or more volts.  This would allow us to use the circuit i posted earlier for a practical application:  garden lights running off earth energy.  We could then figure out how to scale up, but for those experimenting this would at least give us a target.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 16, 2007, 10:42:23 PM
akashh, I believe the earths energy is based on frenquencies.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 16, 2007, 10:42:34 PM
just got back from the hardware store and here in cumming there is definately 8 ft grounding Rods of copper and a galvanized steel i believe. the rods are about a half inch thick and perfect for hammering into the ground. they look soo beautiful! HEHEHEHE   oh yea if you need some copper wire i found some bare copper nice roll of it in the welding section.  no graphite rods tho :(
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 16, 2007, 11:13:37 PM


@all:  the copper pipe video is good, but according to me that's purely galvanic - notice the way the plastic is insulating the copper from the ground.  Also the fact that he can get double the voltage by putting 2 in series indicates that it is not connected to the earth.  The same voltage will be present if you were to remove the 2 rods and place them on a table (I tried it some time ago) but that's all it is - purely voltage.

I would try and set a first goal for us.  Let's say getting 10 or 20 mA at 1.2 or more volts.  This would allow us to use the circuit i posted earlier for a practical application:  garden lights running off earth energy.  We could then figure out how to scale up, but for those experimenting this would at least give us a target.

Hi guys,
I asked 2toxic4u to post his video here because it is a replication of the paper referred to on this thread a while ago, I think this thread.
Take a look at all 10 pages.

http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/earthbattery/ebpage1.htm

On the one hand it seems purely galvanic but as he says and I experienced, if two of these cells are put in the earth as a series set up the voltage drops to ZERO (!) And I only got .7 or .9 volts from each one before I put them in series. I is too odd.

So, please let me understand you. You made 2 cells each using a copper pipe, and filled with damp earth with a zinc plug which you connected in series on an inside table and you got 3 volts?

At this moment I am watching as 2 probes stuck directly into sand wetted (only damp) with 5% salt solution show an increase in volts from 0.001,  35 minutes ago to 0.086 volts now and still rising. This is a control for the pyramid thread and I think this thread too but it is inside the house not either under the pyramid or stuck deep in the ground.

It is funny I was just wondering if my presence was doing something. Thanks Hans for that terrific quote from Stubblefield.

OOPS, not Hans but tishatang

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 16, 2007, 11:29:57 PM
Remove double post
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 16, 2007, 11:30:53 PM
@akash and all of rest of you new to this thread... The reason some of the freq activity has stopped here , well snow in my neck of the woods..and the same in others. Anyways you guys need to read the whole thread we've stumbled across a lot of things here and there all not the same.  as far as our basic earth battery bill has gotten the best results thus far with his graphite rod or carbon i cant remember which  but its here upwards of 1.7 to 1.8 v and a few  milliamp s.   Just two rods, i use a  nice zinc skrew an i mean a quarter inch diam 8 inch long zinc skrew and a peice of quarter inch copper pipe... the cells do work in series and the work better separated further from each other.. As well you need to align them with a compass to magnetic poles read this whole thread and you will see the progress thus far... My intrest lies in single line conductors and earth energy modulation as a carrier base. But i am working hard to devolp a small device for campers that will have abuilt in compass for easy alignment and you just stick it in the ground .. .no bigger than say a 20 soda bottle... with the use of that step circuit i plan to use the 5 v for a usb connector thinking that would be the most versatile thing to make for the socket. It would power either a few led's for a light or a usb socket for ipod/ cell recharging ect.
                                                                                            Keep the good work comming folks
                                                                                                                         Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 17, 2007, 12:08:46 AM
Localjoe, I think you need to wrap a magnetic field around you poles while ordering certain frenquencies using a wire wrapped around the magnetic field. I believe once you do that, you will find that you will have much higher readings as well as the cure to all our energy needs.

 I believe the ordering will require to be done with pulses.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on December 17, 2007, 12:30:03 AM
@All,
Is there any place I could buy copper wire insulated with cotton or silk? I know it is antic stuff, but I need it to replicate Stubblefield coil battery as close as possible. 
George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on December 17, 2007, 02:56:28 AM
The experiment I had done was actually this:  I filled a couple of flower seeder trays with earth (topsoil) and put copper & zinc (and I think i used copper/aluminium too).  By putting them in series I was able to get 2 V which was enough to light an LED dimly.  I was very happy, but the next day the LED was very dim and the day after it had gone out.
From my own experiments I don't remember being able to get more out of the earth by putting batteries in series, but I'll have to try again.

@localjoe - I have been following the thread from the beginning, and I do recall all the experiments that did go on.  What I was trying to say is that free energy is definitely out there.  However, it may take some more time to find it.  Now, if we already have and can easily duplicate a small earth battery of 10 mA or 20 mA @ 1.2 volts, then we *already* have an application for all the research so far, and we can make a product / gadget that works and can be improved upon.  I'd have done this already but have a broken arm and am unable to go digging/experimenting.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 17, 2007, 06:35:25 AM
@ Localjoe:

Good to hear from you.  Yes, it's cold here too. (27 degrees f as I write this)  Almost too cold for experimenting...ha ha.  Best of luck to you on your device, pretty ambitious but, not out of reach in my opinion.  My leds from China have not arrived yet!!!  My goal is to see how many I can light with what I have, and then, to explore a series circuit, and then, to attempt the op amp or whatever circuits that have been posted with the use of coils and pulses.  I could use a little help with the series set up though.  I tried it once and, although I know what series and parallel are in theory, I am not quite sure how to apply that to 4 electrodes in the ground with 2 positive and 2 neg.  If I cross over and tie the left cell + to the right cell - it will be a short.  Should I tie the +'s together and then the -'s and then take a reading?  Or, should I put leads on all of the electrodes and bring them together on my meter?  I am learning as I go here but, I have made circuits in parallel and series before so I know what that is.  I just don't know how to apply that with my electrodes.  Any help would be appreciated.

My original led still lights from the single cell and yes, I am using a carbon rod mail ordered from a welding supply shop here in town.  I am not a chemist but graphite and carbon are very close to the same I think.  I believe the carbon is more "pure" for whatever that is worth.

@ akashh:

I am just guessing but using flower pots, or trays with dirt would be leaning more toward galvanic action rather than obtaining any additional input from the telluric currents alleged to be in the earth.  I am watching closely for any deterioration of my electrodes which would mean that they are being used up as in a normal battery.  So far, none observed but that does not mean it is not happening. Again, I saw the best result when I aligned the electrodes with the + to the north and the - to the south on the north/south meridian which is different from magnetic north and south.  How much different depends on your location on the planet.  For me, here in Kentucky at my location, there is a 3 degree difference between magnetic north and polar north.  I read this on the internet as part of our research and it is posted in the earlier part of the thread somewhere.  It does work for me to do this however, if someone else posts results that are better east and west, then who am I to argue?

@ Jeanna:

I am also following the pyramid experiments as well.  I am intrigued by the use of silica/quartz/sand as this also ties into other research being done by Hutchison and others.  There is quartz in the earth all over the world as it is the number one most naturally occurring mineral on the planet.  Maybe for a reason?  Who knows.  I read the post, I believe Hans put up (link to 10 pages or so) and I feel like 2toxic4u's video was an excellent example of a good replication of that information.  I wish I lived near a beach as I would love to try my cell there and see if it would work in dry sand and just tap into any available telluric currents.  That would be a great control experiment to do.  Dry sand without any electrolite present...water, salt, etc.

@Artic Knight:

I have seen those grounding rods here in town and no one could tell me what type of metal they were.  One guy said "copper" but it was obvious to me they were just plated on the o.d. (outside diameter)  He asked how I knew that and I told him..."the price".  They were like $8 and if they were solid copper would be more like $100.00.  A guy in an earlier posted video used one and a copper pipe and said he was getting 2 amps!!!!  I hope this is correct.  I have not obtained any real amps as of yet.  I do believe that with all of these great minds here, we will press on and figure this all out.  Then what?  Who knows.....

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 17, 2007, 06:44:11 AM
Also, @ Nightlife:

I agree with your theories about magnetic fields.  How this might benefit us is anyone's guess at the moment.  I would suggest that you attempt a simple earth battery cell and apply your ideas to it.  I think you might be on to something but I am now following a "plan" based upon my past results and readings.  That is what this is for, this forum, I believe.  No sense in everyone doing the exact same experiments unless it is for the purpose of replicating/confirming others results.  Try it and please let us know of your results.  If promising, I have shifted gears before and will do so again and will follow.  Thanks.

@Georgemay:

I am not sure that you would need that early example of an insulator to replicate Stubblefield's device.  I don't see what would be wrong with using today's, advanced, insulated wire for this.  That is what is amazing to me about all of this.  Can you imagine what Tesla, Stubblefield, Helmholtz and other might do with the materials and devices available to us today?  Let others more up to speed on this advise you but I don't think it would change anything for the worse, only better in my opinion.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on December 17, 2007, 12:24:52 PM
@Georgemay:

I am not sure that you would need that early example of an insulator to replicate Stubblefield's device. 
Bill

Bill,
The only difference between todays and earlier insulators was ability of the moisture to penetrate it.  I read somewhere that coil needs sometimes more than a week to be buried to allow for the "saturation".  What saturation we don't know.  That could be moisture saturation.   If  Stubblefield bifillar coil act as capacitor on the on the other hand (Thanks Hans for suggestion)  then todays magnet's wire insulation might be to thin to allow for the proper spacing.  I have seen movie on YouTube where a guy use magnet wire and sand off insulation to expose copper wire.  The experiment didn't bring any significant effects.

If I won't find the right wire then the only option left would be to wind both wire bare with a fishing line or cotton string between them to act as insulator.
George

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 17, 2007, 07:19:35 PM
@ georgemay:

I see what you are saying.  I also agree with Hans that possibly this acting as a capacitor of some sort and by "saturate" Stubblefield might have meant with electricity, building up a charge.  As I have stated many times, I am not an electronics or electrical expert by any means and am still learning every day but, please correct me if I am wrong, if you have a cotton insulator that becomes wet with a conductive fluid (water) would that not just short the works as if there were no insulator at all?  I know that you can buy cotton tubing in various sizes (I.D and O.D.) and it comes on a roll.  We used to have some at our machining facility years ago.  You could thread some of that over a bare wire to replicate the older type wire assembly.  The size we had would have been perfect for covering say a 16 ga. bare wire.  I can not remember what the heck we ever bought it for but we were doing some weird stuff in those days. (1975-1994)  Possibly an electrical supply house could order it if you can't find it on the net.

So, maybe the cotton acts as an insulator or semi-insulator when wet and when between the conductors...presto...capacitor.  As you start to make your coil, I would love to see pictures of it if you could post some.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 17, 2007, 07:42:10 PM
G'day all,

I am not at all certain that the galvanic action is necessary for the operation of the coil. If it is there is a way to make the coil without having to resort to cotton sheathed wire.

You MUST use bare copper and iron wire!

Wind your two wires on a coil former one layer at a time making sure the wires don't touch.

Make up a small batch of paper mache and paint the layer with that. Leave to dry and paint again if necessary to make sure there is a layer of paper mache between the wires everywhere, wind your next layer and repeat the process. This will give you your galvanic element.

Toilet paper makes an excellent paper mache.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 17, 2007, 09:31:24 PM
@ Jeanna:

My original led still lights from the single cell and yes, I am using a carbon rod mail ordered from a welding supply shop here in town.

 I wish I lived near a beach as I would love to try my cell there and see if it would work in dry sand and just tap into any available telluric currents.  That would be a great control experiment to do.  Dry sand without any electrolite present...water, salt, etc.

Bill

Bill

What I don't get is how that LED of yours lights up.

Here is some of my experience: I was frustrated with my inabilities to follow Teslas papers a few years ago and took a high school electronics class that was open to adults, In the class I made a bunch of LED candles to learn about circuits and to use. I had to make them for 2 AAA batteries with a resistor because one 1.5v battery won't light a LED. A LED needs 1.65v  sometimes more just  to begin lighting.  The same LED will actually burn up and char with 3 v. I think 33ma is the amperage I aimed for with full batteries but that was a mixture of lasting and brightness. (I bought my LED's from allelectronics.com.  good  cheap  timely.

OK so how did you get that diode to start up with what you got from one cell??? This is serious new stuff, I think.
--
Good thought about the beach. I used to live near a beach. I may be able to get a friend willing to try that out.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 18, 2007, 12:11:58 AM
ok so copper plated steel sounds better to me than just strait copper :p then you have essentially a copper pipe with a iron core for a more magnetic conducting or resonating experience?  damn,..... now i have to try! making a trip later i guess to lows :D  on a side note if i can find some steel i might try to solder that to the pole later (depending on results) and see if wrapping iron around copper electrode helps? iron conducts magnetics which in theory is just electricity to a certain extent, so both wires soldered onto the electrode if it gets any magnetic current should i would think do a nice magnetic inductance and if theres any electrical potential in it, just add that too :-p

what kind of crazy invention am i coming up with? iron around copper 8ft pole with a crippled tesla coil haha i wonder if it will work! ohh crap im drooling......  :o

edit:  oh and why bills cap and poles work? i think because somehow there is a "resonating frequency" or a modulating frequency, rather its amps or volts i think that our readings are just an average because the volt meter cannot read them that fast! i am VERY interested to see what a scope will read like the old school kind with the monochrome screen and the little dot scrolling up and down :p i loved it in school too....

the question is ... does the earth have a heart beat?

if a lightning bolt strikes in tokyo do we get a wave of electricity that bounces in a circular pattern around the world till it finally dies or meets its resistance quota?

maybe what we are getting is a constant lightning bolt trickle effect down our rods? theres a lot of metal in the earth to tap it and we need to find the sweet spot! well im out wife is waiting
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 18, 2007, 12:58:53 AM
@ Jeanna:

Well, I wish I could explain it to you in an intelligent manner but, I don't really know.  I do know that when I first hooked up the cell with the carbon rod and magnesium block the led lit but maybe about 25% bright.  Then, I soldered in a small cap (which is made in China and I cant read the specs, about the size of a hearing aid battery) which I shorted out by getting the polarity wrong on the first try.  I tested it....dead...no volts.  When I hooked that up the led was now maybe 50-60% bright and, it was charging the cap while lit.  After about 30 minutes, I removed the "circuit" and brought it inside.  The led lights off that cap and, still does today even though it has been weeks since I had it hooked up to the cell.  No, I did not leave it burning for all this time, total time illuminated is probably in the neighborhood of 4-6 hours.  what I am really amazed at is that the cap does not appear to "leak" down like I have read that they do.  When my new leds come in from China, I want to see how many I can light up with, and without a larger cap.  I am still trying to figure out how to wire the cell in series for two of them.  I know it should be simple but, I can't seem to get it. As I said in a previous post, there are all types of leds with different ratings.  I paid $5 for this ONE at Radio Shack and now have ordered 40+ from China for $8 which includes shipping!!!!!! (That's total cost)  The rating on the box of the led says..."1.7 volts, 20 mA, 3000mcd."  I don't even know what the mcd is except I think it refers to the brightness?  I also don't know if 1.7volts is the minimum or the maximum or how they rate these things.  I can light it from a single AA bat. (1.5 vdc) but it is not as bright as when hooked to the cell outside.  I have to say that Artic Knight makes some good points about the possible limitations on modern digital voltmeters, ammeters, etc.  My guess is that if I use a larger capacitor and the same thing happens where it will charge while lighting, I believe I can get 2-5 leds burning, maybe more.  I guess this shows what a boring person I am because this is my idea of fun. Ha ha.

Artic Knight:

Did you see the video near the beginning of this thread with the guy with the ground rod and a large, bright led running off it? (He used it to light his bathroom at night as a nightlight)  If not, check it out.  You may be really able to pull some amps out of the earth like he said he did.  I live in an apartment and if I drove an 8 foot rod into the earth, I don't know how I would ever remove it.  Of course, when I move, I guess I could just hammer it down below the surface? I seriously doubt that you will be able to solder anything to the grounding rod as it will act as one very large heat sink and draw off the heat faster than you could add it.  That's why I fashioned a ring out of copper strand wire and tinned it making the inside diameter just the right size to slip over (friction fit) the carbon rod.  I know they make grounding straps that are kind of like a hose clamp that attaches to the ground rods so a wire can be attached, you could try that.  And yes, the earth does have a resonant frequency, I have seen several number as to what it is but it is very low.  Do you think this is "fooling" the capacitor into charging while having a load on it?  Maybe it is like charging the cap with an ac component? Or pulsed dc?  So many questions, so many experiments to perform. You are right about the scope, I would love to see what it looks like with this voltage and current. I don't even really know how to use one but I will learn.  Someone posted that I could rent one which would be cool, as soon as I get some money.

Just a thought...what if the earth is a very large capacitor?  I mean, we have an isolated body that consists of both conducting and insulating materials all mixed together don't we?  Continually being charged by millions of lightning strikes a day and....what about all of those electrons being pumped into the "ground" from everyone's household circuits??  And, on the battery side, we have a planet that is 3/4 water but, not just water, seawater or....an electrolight.  So, it may be both a battery and a capacitor?????

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 18, 2007, 02:36:05 AM
@ Jeanna:

Well, I wish I could explain it to you in an intelligent manner but, I don't really know.  I do know that when I first hooked up the cell with the carbon rod and magnesium block the led lit but maybe about 25% bright.  Then, I soldered in a small cap (which is made in China and I cant read the specs, about the size of a hearing aid battery) which I shorted out by getting the polarity wrong on the first try.  I tested it....dead...no volts.  When I hooked that up the led was now maybe 50-60% bright and, it was charging the cap while lit. 

It is not sposed to be able to do that. When I did the LED off a cap in a self designed experiment in that class, I had to unhook it and juice the cap then rehook it. because I was told that the cap would let the juice out the way it came in only. I had this question when I saw that video too. I wondered how big a set up that guy had to power so many leds in his bathroom.
I think this is potentially something really big. well, subtle too.

I think it was this thread where I got the link to a guy talking about radionics and short wave radios coming from the earth where the signal got better over time. etc. subtle and very big too.

Quote
After about 30 minutes, I removed the "circuit" and brought it inside.  The led lights off that cap and, still does today even though it has been weeks since I had it hooked up to the cell.  No, I did not leave it burning for all this time, total time illuminated is probably in the neighborhood of 4-6 hours.

wow!  Maybe you could see how long it will run if you leave it on.
Quote
 
 what I am really amazed at is that the cap does not appear to "leak" down like I have read that they do. 

Not really, they actually recharge and you have to be really careful with the big ones because you can get a big shock when you thought the thing was drained and it can last for a very long time. (I wanna say years.) but they don't discharge by themselves.
Quote

 When my new leds come in from China, I want to see how many I can light up with, and without a larger cap.  I am still trying to figure out how to wire the cell in series for two of them.  I know it should be simple but, I can't seem to get it.
You should just solder the short leads to the long leads and chain them. Use LEDs from the same batch because if some have fewer atoms of doping than others some will take the juice and not the rest. I think parallel is the ticket for a string, but I never tried it.
Quote
As I said in a previous post, there are all types of leds with different ratings.  I paid $5 for this ONE at Radio Shack and now have ordered 40+ from China for $8 which includes shipping!!!!!! (That's total cost)  The rating on the box of the led says..."1.7 volts, 20 mA, 3000mcd."  I don't even know what the mcd is except I think it refers to the brightness?  I also don't know if 1.7volts is the minimum or the maximum or how they rate these things.  I can light it from a single AA bat. (1.5 vdc) but it is not as bright as when hooked to the cell outside. 

So, 1.7v is the minimum start up, but don't pay any attention to that because you are invoking some kind of (magic) just ignore that.
20mA is how many mA the light needs to shine its brightest. I think more than this won't make it brighter??
3000mcd is minicandelas or microcandelas for its maximum brightness.
One thing really interesting about leds is that if there is less juice they will use less. I had a rack of experimental candles going for about a month 24 x 7. Finally I couldn't see the light anymore and stopped the experiment.

Please describe for me how exactly you have put this together. I want to make one. I have lots of leds left over from that class and I need some outdoor lights and I'd love to make them with earth batteries and caps. It is too dark too often and my solar path light doesn't glow enough.

Quote
I fashioned a ring out of copper strand wire and tinned it making the inside diameter just the right size to slip over (friction fit) the carbon rod.
Is that one lead? what did you attach to the copper or was it magnesium that you used? then which side of the cap? + or - and where did you attach the led?  eesh!  please describe.


So many question is right. Who needs to sleep?  ;D

and oh dear I was thinking the earth was a big electric motor not a capacitor, maybe a pot cap? more when there is a sun spot.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 18, 2007, 03:25:23 AM
Jeanna:

This is the third time I have attempted to post this!!  It keeps telling me I have already posted this but it does not post it so..I re-write it and...it says I have already posted this.  So...one more time.

I am trying to post 3 pics.  The first is just a pic of the magnesium block (minus) in the ground with a jumper wire clipped on to it.  The second is the carbon rod and copper wire ring (postiive) and the third is the led circuit. The red wire, + comes off the + side of the cap. and will reach the + side of the led but is only soldered to the cap for now.  The blue wire comes off the - side of the cap and is soldered to the - side of the led.  when I want to light the led I just move the red wire to the + led lead and presto.  When attached to the cell the clip from the carbon rod jumper keeps the red wire and the led lead together along with the copper ring.  The - side of the cap is attached to the jumper coming off the mag. block (-).  If you watch my video maybe it will make more sense to you.  If not, let me know and I will answer any questions you may have.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 18, 2007, 03:43:33 AM
Jeanna:

Now that I got the pics up, finally, I will try to answer some of your other points.  Actually, the second pic. was supposed to be the rod but was the circuit but...oh well.

Yes, I read on the Dr. Stiffler topic (I think ) about the batch thing with leds.  Thanks for pointing that out.  Of course, with the quality control in China, or lack there of, there is not telling what I am going to get anyway.

I know how to wire the leds in series, that is not what I meant.  I want to know how to wire the cells in series as I am building another cell next to the first one and I want to get like 3.6 volts or so out of it in series.  It is not like sticking D-cells in a flashlight, I tried it that way and it was a dead short.  I am sure I am doing something wrong because the way I did it would not have even worked with 2 car batteries and I know they can be hooked in series as well.

Thanks for the warning on the larger caps.  I already know that.  Want to know how I know?????  Learned the hard way.. ha ha.  A TV technician friend of mine many years ago warned me, too late as it turnes out, to unplug my set overnight before working on it.  He said the caps would discharge overnight.  They did.  (after I did it his way after my shock)  So, I was thinking that these smaller ones would do the same.  Another guy told me this was called "bleed down".  That is why I am amazed that it still has more volts reading on it now than I was getting with the cell.  More experimentation needed.

The guy in the video with the led in the bathroom used only one led.  You can see it in the video near the start.  I think he mispoke himself possibly when he said he was getting 2 amps...maybe 2 milliamps?  I know it is hard when you are the camera man, director, actor and producer as I have mispoken a few times in my vids. I hope he really did get 2 amps.

The small cap I am using came out of a shake flashlight. (you shake it to charge it)  I sacrificed it as it only cost $5 and I also got an led, and a great coil and a very strong neo magnet out of it as well.  Let me know if you have any more questions.  I very much appreciate all of your input. Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 18, 2007, 04:36:39 AM
Quote
I want to make one. I have lots of leds left over from that class and I need some outdoor lights and I'd love to make them with earth batteries and caps. It is too dark too often and my solar path light doesn't glow enough.

OOPS Sorry localjoe. I remember that is your idea. Itsagoodone!

don't worry. I won't make a business out of it. (I already did one business thats enough!)

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 18, 2007, 05:07:50 AM

 Let me know if you have any more questions.
Bill

I will have more but I need to eat some dinner first.

I wanted to get this link to you.
http://www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/superior_radionics.htm
also
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/earthbattery/

It was here before. I had the experience you had trying to put these earth cells in series. I don't know how one would do it either. One or the other of these pages addresses that you will not be able to add to the voltage by putting them in series. You just get zero. So, you and I both got zero by that so, see if  the ideas of the array might help. Sorry, I need to eat. I will try to find it if you can't now I know there are 2 of us that got zero, I know I am doing this OK.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 18, 2007, 05:17:32 AM
bill

its hard to predict what the earth will do, it has all the elements we use today in our batteries antennas solar pannels and capaciters. its got bio electrical generators and god knows what else! 

my theory is the earth itself will not make much electricity but will store it well and collect it well. i think that the major influence on our experiments thus far some proven some theory is that the lightning is striking the earth in china and its creating a pulse over here but that our amp meters cannot read it to its fullest extent. how many lightning bolts strike the earth any given moment? LOL yea enough. so i think your capacitor is getting charged by a pulsed dc current from the earth and that our .9 or 1.5 volts at 2 miliamp is just an average. im willing to bet we would see some great stuff in a storm !   

now as for a capacitor. i learned from the web (wiki pedia) its like a bucket with 2 spouts, theres the in spout high on the bucket and it has a flow control to stop the water coming in after it reaches that high inlet spout. then theres the outlet spout low on the bucket, with ac current or pulsed dc, it will be a fluctuating input into the bucket, it gets full it gets half full it gets full it gets half full but because the out is in the bottom of the bucket it remains constant.

whats the capacitor rated? 22 farad?  it should say on it. and i believe the voltage out is what ever the voltage in.

now for the pair (capacitor and led)  since we have a 1.5 v in on the capacitor we get that out. its not the full 1.7 so its not a fully bright led.  with the capacitor our variable amps is now constant. before it was averageing too low to be a full load for the led but now with the capacitor its a full load and its much brighter.  hope this helps if not check wiki pedia they got a really good article!

on a side note my wife is being very resistant twards my experiments, looks like im going to have to please the gods with some house work to get what i want  :P
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 18, 2007, 05:56:36 AM


now for the pair (capacitor and led)  since we have a 1.5 v in on the capacitor we get that out. its not the full 1.7 so its not a fully bright led.  with the capacitor our variable amps is now constant. before it was averageing too low to be a full load for the led but now with the capacitor its a full load and its much brighter.  hope this helps if not check wiki pedia they got a really good article!


The thing is Arctic_Knight that the led should not even begin to light unless there is 1.7v.. Try it. put a led between the ends of a AA battery and see. the only times you can buy a led flashlight or candle or whatever that has only 1,   1.5v battery is when the engineer has added a chip that makes the led flash so fast that the eye misses it.

It is possible that this is what is happening with Bill's circuit. but I don't know. (I mean flashing fast)  Given that a diode is a one way entity and a cap is one way in and same way out, I can't get how the charge is circling around to keep the diode lit.

Another thing is that a capacitor has a bizarre speed of filling and emptying. There is a curve that describes each function. It fills up to 66% full very quickly then continues to fill slower and slower for EVER... Then The same curve happens when it empties 66% right away then lots of time to finish emptying. The engineers use this and have most of the activity happening in the first part of the curve both ways to approximate something smooth enough to be imperceptable.

Wow, I didn't realize I had learned so much in that class!
Hope it helps.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 18, 2007, 06:02:50 AM
Artic Knight:

Very good explanation of the capacitor I believe.  So, if I read you correctly, the pulsed dc and/or any ac component will not drive the led as well as with the cap which "smooths out" the pulses and feeds back straight dc.  This makes a lot of sense to what I am seeing here.  I do believe you are correct that a cap. will max out on the input voltage, I have read this in my electronics books.  My question is this about caps which I can not seem to find anywhere.  What do they do to the amps/milliamps?  If you put in 2 mA over time is that what you get out?  Or, do they "build up" somehow?  It seems to me they should be constant like the volts but I believe I am getting more power out of the cap than what was put in.  I can not read the markings on this small cap, but you see it in the picture.  I have another larger on that says it is " 200 volt 820 uf"  It is almost the size of a "D" cell battery.  I want to hook this one up to see what happens.  Maybe it won't do anything other than store more juice to burn the led even longer once removed from the system.  Your ideas on the earth are right in step with what I believe.  I wish I had the balls to be out there in an electrical storm with my meter but, something (survival instinct?) tells me it is not a good idea to mess with well grounded conductors in those types of conditions...ha ha.  Did you tell your wife that you are trying to help the world by participating in projects like this?  Well, my ex-wife didn't care anything about stuff like that.  You need to keep her happy.

Jeanna:

I read fully the second link when it was posted earlier and I will now read the first one.  Thanks. I am also learning Google Sketch up so that I can post a diagram of my series attempts so maybe some of the electronics people can point me in the right direction. Did the pictures I posted help you to see what I am doing any better?  I don't have much time these days for experiments and the weather is cold but, I will make some time and brave the weather here at Ice Station Zebra for the good of the project.  Just wish my leds would get here already.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 18, 2007, 06:11:37 AM
Jeanna:

My led will light off of one AA battery.  I tried it that way to make sure it was working correctly and that I had the polarity right.  It was not as bright as it is on my cell outside, even before I added the capacitor.  Hope this helps.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 18, 2007, 06:22:05 AM
Bill

does this
Quote
and I want to get like 3.6 volts or so out of it in series.
mean that your carbon magnesium is giving you 1.8volts? I missed that because I missed a bunch of pages while I was trying to get up to speed on that pyramid page. !

I want some of that stuff if it is.
I remember your waiting for the carbon rod (I took a welding class last month and I can probably get some from the teacher) but I don't remember the magnesium. It looks like a brick. I am sorry if you covered this already. Where does one get that or what is it called?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 18, 2007, 06:25:07 AM
Bill
Quote
My led will light off of one AA battery.

How amazing. I wonder how radio shak did that.

cool.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 18, 2007, 06:54:51 AM
bill and jenna,

the only thing i can figure is that the voltage is higher than the amp meter reads and same for the amperage, however its pulsed, that explains why the capaciter can keep it steady (constant discharge until empty).  capaciters are good for when the voltage or current is not even, like ac or from a hand crank generator like bills savaged flashlight (i have one too) in bills case the flash light would recieve pulsed dc current spuratically and needed to be stored (arm would get tired fast trying to shake that fast enough to keep constant light!)  so really it just smothes things out. but it has its limits. as jenna said it will reach a majority charge and then basically stop accepting any charg at all. but be careful, if the pulse exceeds the capacitors ability to accept and stor a charge it will blow the cap, like a fire cracker! seriously!  its fun but can be expensive entertainment! LOL

about those 8 foot rods, i want to use them but im not starting with them, once they are in the ground i can only imagine they are impossible to pull out  :P would be bad for experimenting unless we had a generally good idea how we wanted them :P but i bet they will double our amps! maybe more considering they will be deeper and there might be some multiplier effect.... who knows? after all the top soil is very different from the next layer.. i think its 100's of feed down to next layer tho... god i wish i paid attention in geography now :P

heres a little chemistry lesson. 
the more water that is between the electrodes the more resistance we will have for our battery because all the electricity potential in the battery area will want to produce hydrogen and oxygen by splitting the water and it takes energy to do that so resistance. if it rains we are probobly screwed.  but on a side note, i obtained a radical increase in electricity out put by "charging" my quartz cell batteries.

salt water + sand = .04 volt
salt water + sand + charge from car battery = .75 volt

remember the current is reversed when charging so if you try this put the positive battery head to the negative earth battery head.  this might give you a great "jump start" to your battery bill :D

i seen the video on that dude with the leds in the bathroom, i cant imagine what would be giving him all that current unless his appliances are leaking! or maybe he had a thunderstorm near by? dunno, but one amp is to say the least going to be hard for us. and making any useful current out of 2 volt one amp is going to be tougher.  my ionic breeze takes 6 watts an hour and its the least hungry device i think i have!  and using more of these cells will eventually become more pain than gain. after all how many people wants to walk through a yard of metal spikes? we have to limit the use of them. and find a way to generate some good current.... or tricks around it. i still want to see what my half brained half crippled tesla wireless amp is going to do. probobly nothing usefull.. but what else am i going to do with all this wire? :D 

if i can light some florecents from it i would be... well crazy happy!  but hey maybe we can get this amped or something so we can make free non solar yard lights for a 3 watt halogen bulb? that would be really cool too! i wonder if they come in 3 watts? hey bill feel like another experiment? :P
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 18, 2007, 07:20:33 AM
The current produced is highest when the two metals are most widely separated from each other in the electropotential series, and when the material nearer the positive end is to the north, while that at the negative end is towards the south. The plates, one copper and another iron or carbon, are connected above ground by means of a wire with as little resistance as possible. In such an arrangement, the electrodes are not appreciably chemically corroded, even when they are in earth saturated with water, and are connected together by a wire for a long time.

It had been found that to strengthen the current, it was most advantageous to drive the northerly electropositive electrode deeper into the medium than the southerly electrode. The greatest currents and voltages were obtained when the difference in depth was such that a line joining the two electrodes was in the direction of the magnetic dip, or magnetic inclination. When the previous methods were combined, the current was tapped and utilized in any well-known manner.

In some cases, a pair of plates with differing electrical properties, and with suitable protective coatings, were buried below the ground. A protective or other coating covered each entire plate. A copper plate could be coated with powered coke, a processed carbonaceous material. To a zinc plate, a layer of felt could be applied. To use the natural electricity, earth batteries fed electromagnets, the load, that were part of a motor mechanism.
---------------------------

it would appear that we are following this verbatim. so in that respect, shall we try an electric motor? i would imagine a special electric motor with an iron core at the windings would be most effecient for pulsed dc and usually not hard to find (old style from rc cars)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 18, 2007, 07:34:15 AM
i just looked at stubblefields wound battery and its very interesting, we are dealing with what scientists think is magnetic currents (doubt that since magnetic currents have to move to generate electricity) whats interesting is there is an iron bolt through the middle, a coil of wire around that bolt and another coil around that coil (the two coils seperated) it looks like the bolt is intended to be exposed and if thats the case i would like to see it aligned with the bolt tip to top north to south. so the magnetic current flows through the bolt :D what do you guys think?
 i bet i could get away with that here :P  i think ill try it :D
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 18, 2007, 08:32:04 AM
Hi Arctic night
Quote
so the magnetic current flows through the bolt  what do you guys think?
 i bet i could get away with that here   i think ill try it

yes, please try it.

I just got up to speed here. I apologise for the uninformed comments I have made.
I think I stopped looking in around the time that rude guy was around.

I will be away for a couple of days.
But i will check in on thursday

and yes, please try it.

Bill,
I watched your videos. I think I get it. It is an interesting and beautifully simple circuit. bravo!!
I will try some of this when I get back.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 18, 2007, 10:32:57 AM
 You all should read the comments from the "What is elctricity" thread in the half baked ideas forum. My conclusion may have the answer to your problems here.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 18, 2007, 06:28:43 PM
@nightlife
     I like your ideas man but unless they directly apply to your exp it doesent help much. 

Ok folks when i said they could be connected in series... i ment additive voltage but not in the hookup sense were use too...  as opposed to putting carbon to zinc then carbon to zinc making 2 cells
   
only connect one lead from 1 of each metal to your load.  the reamaing copper or zinc in the ground connect to other metal of the same so for instance copper to copper to load and zinc to zinc to load thats what gave me the results... sorry for not being clear earlier... Ive had a lot going on. And as far as anyone devolping a device similar.... Its open source keep it that way, and if you try to patent it i do have lawyers in the family.... this shit is staying free .   I had a guy recently messge me and ask why i didnt want to patent my camping device idea to make money...  And i told him once its finished and compacted.... its going to be freely sent to as many places as i have time and money .  But at no charge... ususally has the effect of people being happy and sharing... Hopefully all works out well.  all i have to say is if you could charge your phone ipod ect anywhere you could stick this thing in the ground ... and have a light... it would cool real cool.  Dam you mintyboost for starting a revolution.
                                                                                                                           Joe

PS at this point were still dealing with replications not fine tuning so any of the frequencey ideas i would appreciate if left till later... once  we have the basics then we can use coils and all there inductive properties. But for now we need to find our best arrangement of electrodes and determine if the amperage will be high engough to run the boost circuit. Thanks again folks.
                                                                                                                    Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 18, 2007, 07:43:37 PM
The current produced is highest when the two metals are most widely separated from each other in the electropotential series, and when the material nearer the positive end is to the north, while that at the negative end is towards the south. The plates, one copper and another iron or carbon, are connected above ground by means of a wire with as little resistance as possible. In such an arrangement, the electrodes are not appreciably chemically corroded, even when they are in earth saturated with water, and are connected together by a wire for a long time.

It had been found that to strengthen the current, it was most advantageous to drive the northerly electropositive electrode deeper into the medium than the southerly electrode. The greatest currents and voltages were obtained when the difference in depth was such that a line joining the two electrodes was in the direction of the magnetic dip, or magnetic inclination. When the previous methods were combined, the current was tapped and utilized in any well-known manner.

In some cases, a pair of plates with differing electrical properties, and with suitable protective coatings, were buried below the ground. A protective or other coating covered each entire plate. A copper plate could be coated with powered coke, a processed carbonaceous material. To a zinc plate, a layer of felt could be applied. To use the natural electricity, earth batteries fed electromagnets, the load, that were part of a motor mechanism.
_________

@ joe
ok the information above is a repost however i believe that will most likely hold true for our best results that we should begin using for reproduction. i will give it a test at a later time when i can but i strongly believe thats going to be our base :)

@ Bill

bill i had a crazy idea that the voltage and current your reading strait from the volt meter might be only half of what it actually is, either that or its the best we have but its pulsed? either way i think you should measure from the cap to the other pole and see what you get. bypass the diode for this.

PS:  rumor has it Diodes are photovoltaic. so if your diode is holding a charge check to see if it is generating a current!

@ all

it appears here that the basic setup is to have the positive pole or plate an inch or two deeper then the negative.  also they should be kept atleast 3 feet appart, according to what i have read the farther the better per the telegraph people. they seem to need to be just slightly off from magnetic north and we also want the most dissimilair metals possible and apparently as bill discovered a big fat cap to smooth things over!.

if i missed anything let me know :) im taking notes hehehe.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 18, 2007, 08:18:16 PM
@artic Yea most of that info is dead on but it seems you copied it out of a wiki or a patent i recognized the wording.  Well additionally i found this to be true and i think bill did too ... the results stay the same if you put your pipe in parallel to the ground about 6-12 inches down so  ___________________________Earth
                                                                                                                            horizontal
                                                                                                                 ___________________________                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                {___________________________}    COPPER PIPE

You still missed what i said  as well in my post.   you can take 3 peices of copper and 3 peices of zinc and hook like metals together think parallel buss on a battery bank       so the load is only powered by one set of leads from the outer or inner most peices of copper and zinc.. well  in my case. 

@ Bill idea struck me for you to try this ,  Take your carbon and hook a peice of copper to it with jumper and take your zinc screw or whatever neg you decide to use and put another peice of that metal to it.  this is basicly the same as what i described above but i wanted to see if using 2 different things in the positive case made it better or worse. If the weather permits :)
                                                                                                               
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 18, 2007, 08:54:41 PM
your right about the copying part joe, its strait out of the wiki for earth batteries, but it seems to be dead on from what we are doing thats why i copied. i think its going to prove to be the best thing available since those old school boys knew what they were doing for the most part.  i think the wiki is going to have the best method, and from there we are going to have to tweak it in wierd ways to get home current.

but we were talking about a standard method i thought so :) it was just my thought.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 19, 2007, 12:19:46 AM
@ All:

I don't have much time to post now and will address the earlier posts after a while.  I just wanted to say a few things.  The Wiki stuff I believe I posted on or about page three of this topic and have been following that ever since.  That is why I try to stress the POLAR north south alligned with the MERIDIAN which is way different from magnetic north.  And my angle from the bottom of the magnesium block (Which Jeanna, is a fire starting block you can get at any camping supply place for about $4.) to the bottom of the carbon rod about 4 feet away is about 60 degrees.  Probably too much of an angle to be ideal, I am hoping to find a larger, longer magnesium pipe or tube that I can place deeper.  My best volts thus far is 1.8 and I agree with Joe who said a long time ago that this was probably pulsed dc of some kind.  I also very much agree with Artic Knight's thoughts on why the capacitor is working like it is. (I did find a small marking that said "22 F" on the side of it.)  That can't be 22 Farads can it?  That thing is so small.  I think that so many people believe this is just galvanic action they pass this by.  If Joe is correct about pulsed dc with possibly an ac component, we might be able to do all kinds of things as this progresses. We have better materials and more efficient circuits and...transistors to play with than Mr. Stubblefield and the others had.  Once I get my reports caught up from today's surveillance cases, I will get back on and address the past few pages of questions and ideas.  Oh also, yes open source all the way for me as well.  I have seen some on this and other forums that, after getting a lot of good minds to help them along...delete all of their posts and run to the patent office.  And I'll bet they didn't name everyone that helped them on the patent either.  Patents are a waste of time and money in my opinion based on experience. Free energy should be just that....free.  Of course, a little fame might be ok. Ha ha.  I'll see you all later on here.  Keep up all of the good work.  See what you started here Joe??????  Cheers.

Bill 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 19, 2007, 12:35:05 AM
G'day Bill and all,

Checking for AC or pulsed DC is really easy, you don't need any sophisticated instruments.

Simply feed your input into say an audio transformer, you know the miniature things you can buy at electronic stores for a couple of bucks. If you get any electricity at all on the secondary you have the proof.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 19, 2007, 02:13:02 AM
im not sure about plain magnesium but from what i read its a common alloy for automotive aluminum. 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 19, 2007, 05:34:09 AM

You still missed what i said  as well in my post.   you can take 3 peices of copper and 3 peices of zinc and hook like metals together think parallel buss on a battery bank       so the load is only powered by one set of leads from the outer or inner most peices of copper and zinc.. well  in my case. 

Hi localjoe,

First I want to say I appreciate how you are running this thread. Firm and polite.

now, I just bought a pipe cutter. I plan to cut my 24" pipe into 3, 8" pieces and solder them together as you recommend. I will also solder the zincs together . I am planning to use copper wire for the connecting wire and tin antimony solder (plumbing solder instead of electronic solder) to make the connections. I am seeing a lot of different metals here and I am not sure, but I will do it,  I will do it as much like your drawing as I can.

Then I will report.


Quote
Checking for AC or pulsed DC is really easy, you don't need any sophisticated instruments.

Simply feed your input into say an audio transformer, you know the miniature things you can buy at electronic stores for a couple of bucks. If you get any electricity at all on the secondary you have the proof.

Hans, I need some help with this one. Please explain what the input would be and how I put this audio transformer into my (or Bills, for that matter,) circuit.

And how does the proof work? What would the AC look like and what would the DC look like?
------------

 I just mail-ordered some parts and I will make a copy of Bills circuit with my metals, then after I  get his materials together, I will use his cricuit using the same materials. These both seem very promissing.

As wet and windy as it can be here in the Northwest the ground is rarely frozen and I can continue to hammer pipes into the ground for a while now! ;D

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 19, 2007, 09:05:34 AM
It's simple jeanna,

In order to generate a current in the secondary the primary needs to be fed with pulsed DC or AC. If you feed DC into the primary nothing happens in the secondary.

Look up how transformers work, its all in there.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2007, 02:45:22 AM
@ Hans:

That's a brilliant idea!!!  If ANY voltage shows up on the secondary it must be pulsed!!!  I have not seen the cheap audio transformers around.  I am sure radio shack has them but, at least at this store, if you don't know exactly what you are looking for, they are not much help.  What or how is the audio transformer used?  What I mean to ask is....is this device used for hi-fi equipment? Or some other application?  If I can identify one I will try it.  Excellent!!!

@ Joe:

Here is the problem with what you propose.  I tried two "positive" metals and two "negetive" metals and guess what?  It makes a subcell between the two dissimilar metals and then shorts.  I tried this a while back when first trying to up the volts using series.  I did not have two exact metals for + and -.  Now, what I think will work is your idea to tie say 3 positive metals of the same type and then have 3 negetive metals of the same type and tie them to a load.  This may not up the volts but should be seen by the earth as a much larger single north and south and therefore maybe up the amps, or milliamps.  I will try this.  If my explanation does not make any sense, let me know and I will try to explain it better. It's like if I use carbon and copper for the plus side, the carbon becomes plus and the copper becomes minus.  Thereby creating a subcell situation.  But hey, my leds came today so I have something new to play with.  I will try your idea of tying an "array" of + and - together to see what happens.

@ Jeanna:

I was playing around with my larger capacitor this afternoon (inside) and it performs like you said it should.  I charged it with a D cell for a few moments and, it lit an led but only for a second and very bright.  It seems it dumped the volts out all at once.  What type of cap is my small one that does not do that?  I would like to get the same type only larger.  I don't see anything in the specs on them that would tell how fast it discharges.  Also, would putting a resistor of the proper value in line slow down this voltage dumping?  Back to my electronics books to see if I can figure this out.  If you or anyone can tell me, I would appreciate it. And yes Jeanna, that guy giving everyone a hard time was banned by Stefan for raising hell on Dr. Stiffler's thread.  It was a shame as he appeared to be an intelligent fellow. (Not a shame he was banned, a shame he could not contribute in a positive manner) Joe evidently knows a lot about computer systems so if anyone else steps out of line, he might just make them disappear into the world of ones and zeros.

I will check out Hans's idea (which is way better than waiting for an ocilloscope to show up at my door) and experiment with a few other things as well.  By the way, if there is voltage in the secondary on the audio transformer it should be higher than input right? (if it is pulsed)  So, we could still use this device to boost our volts. (probably cuts the milliamps though per Ohm's law)

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 20, 2007, 03:30:36 AM
@Bill
      Yea your dead on i said trying that config earlier in the post like the pic shows the idea i had for you was just an idea to see if it worked so thanks for trying even tho it didnt work.  Theres snow everywhere here..... The config with the three metals of the same on either side worked and showed mixed results none worse but higher voltage in some cases for me.
                                                                            Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 20, 2007, 04:54:30 AM
@Bill,

These are the little transformers they use in cheap transistor radios, but if you have any old transformer lying around it will do, I only suggested these because they are dirt cheap.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 20, 2007, 04:58:26 AM
@ Hans
           Ive got one here its just this frozen white powder problem everywhere outside.... Either one of them C Eye A jets lost some of their product en route at high altitude or were having a nice snow storm .. I'm leaning towards the later tho   :)
                                                                                                                                                                     Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 20, 2007, 05:06:04 AM
I used to have this problem when I was a youngster. Growing up in mountainous country in Germany in the winter is an experience just like you are having now. :-)

Thank God the only place where I have seen that white shit you are talking about for many years now has been in the fridge, where it belongs.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 20, 2007, 05:10:00 AM
Yea theres snow everywhere and don't mind the other comment. It's just i feel like our country is acting like that kid your parents wanted you to stay away from when you were a kid.  More and more scandalous affairs in America ... Just plane embarrassing .
                                                                                                                                                             Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 20, 2007, 05:16:05 AM
And that stupid Al Gore wants to STOP global warming.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 20, 2007, 05:21:08 AM
I posted this in the 2012 fourm but people need to know this planley and pass the word along.     


Why can scientists just come out and say hey ... The artic is melting... India is getting snow and the oldest folks there say theve never had snow in india, the us is getting colder... All these things are due to a magnetic pole shift... and no i dotn mean the south pole is now the north pole i mean there axis is getting skewed and is goin to cover different parts of the world .  So in English  OUR MAGNETIC POLES ARE SHIFTING AND CAUSING CLIMATE CHANGE THIS IS SPEEDING UP. SO next time someone says hey there about that global warming or global cooling.. Tell them why its happening.  All this 2012 doomsday shit is nuts the public needs to know that there is a way to evaluate star charts to anticipate this magnetic shift and thats what the pyramids and some of the great incan and myan monuments probably wanted to point us to.Meaning the calender and the zodiac . I think humanity has already done this a time or two....Hopefully third times a charm.... just go with it.
                                                                                                                                   Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 20, 2007, 05:42:28 AM
some scientists did comment on the magnetic polar shift, what we know now as our magnetic north used to be our magnetic south. according to the scientists i seen on the discovery channel this has happened and been recorded in the earth setiment layers a dozen times.  they say that its a normal fluctuation just like the ice caps melting. but they also say our green house gasses are not helping :-p

bill, something to look at with your other cell and why it held a charge, i remember some talk about leds being photovoltaic, or generating small amounts of electricity. check it out, maybe its why the cell maintained a charge?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2007, 06:17:41 AM
@ All:

Global (some parts) warming is real.  MAN-MADE global warming is a farce!  As some respected scientist have said...if it is man caused than man can stop it, and guess what? We can't.  From what I have read the sun, which operates in 11 year cycles is in a low (supposed to be) cycle right now.  The problem is, this low cycle is very, very much hotter and with more activity than in the past 5 "hot" cycles.  And, mars is heating up the same as the earth.  Exactly the same amount.  Well, I don't see SUVs or coal burning plants on mars, so common sense tells me the one thing the earth has in common with mars is....you guessed it...the sun!!!!  Remember Greenland?  It's on all the maps right?  Well, Greenland used to be GREEN and farm land.  Now, it is like artic conditions on most of it.  The earth is dynamic and has changed, and will change.  We just need to adapt.  Now I am against wasting energy and resources which is one of the reasons I am here on this site.  I don't polute and wish others did not either.  But Al Gore is full of shit, plain and simple.  I am just surpirsed to see so many uninformed people following him like lemmings.  He has 5 mansions and just the one near me, which is in TN has a nearly $5,000/month electric bill.  That is one of his houses!!!!  A Nashville radio station got one of his bill and published it.  So, he wants us to use candles while he flies in his jet and wastes energy.  So much for my rant.  Forgive me.

@ Hans:

Thanks for the clarification.  So, the best way to get one of the transformers might be to purchase a small $3 transistor radio and use it for parts?  If so, I will do that.

@ Joe:

Yes, I was once a geology major in college and pole shifts (magnetic) are well documented throughout history and should be well known.  The news makes it sound like the end of the world for crying out loud.  Oh, and I love when people say.."We need to save the planet."  I have news for them.  The planet was here long before man arrived, and will most likely be here long after.  What they should say is we need to save humanity.  My response would be "Why?"

@ Artic Knight:

I mostly run my led circuit at night so I doubt if it is gaining anything from the photovoltaic aspect.  But, has anyone researched to see how efficient, or not, leds are in this area?  I guess I could stick one in the sunshine and hook up my meter to it. I was trying to see why my small capacitor sends out the volts in a slow manner while the larger one dumps it all at once it seems.  I have read in Popular Mechanics that Sears (who never make their own tools) is now selling cordless screwdrivers that only run for 2 hours but, charge up fully in less than 5 minutes!  No batteries, they are using capacitors.  Interesting isn't it?

I now have my led shipment and I am looking at them not knowing what to do next.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 20, 2007, 08:19:30 AM
well if you have a bread board or one of those electronics test boards that are plug and play (radio shack) then you could connect the curcuit and then add the leds in series uh wait i think i mean parellel and see how many get used :D

too brain dead to know which is needed at the moment, series or parallel 

im interested to see the current you are pulling with the use of that cap, and to see if a larger cap will reveal theres more current than your currently tapping.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2007, 06:50:30 PM
@ Artic Knight:

I don't have a bread board but I know what they are and a small one should not be too much money, I will look into it.  I think they need to be in parallel, but, I'm never sure of anything in electronics, ha ha.  Just a quick thought.  I will check on the power output of these various leds by light input to see what is there but, in following the Dr. Stiffler topic and the micro tpu topic, what if when all those leds are illuminated some of them begin to generate some volts from the light of either themselves or the other leds.  I am not saying that it would be self powered at all just thinking that if a single led take x current to run, then maybe 10 won't take 10x but something less, maybe 6x because they start to contribute a little back due to photovoltaic properties. Could this be possible?

Maybe I could go to Sears and try to see what kind of caps they are using for the screw gun?  They sound like they would have to release the power slowly over time like my small cap and not dump all the power in like 2 seconds.  Heck, if I could charge up one of them for a day on the cell outside, who knows what I could hook up to it?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 21, 2007, 12:22:59 AM
yaknow Bill,

What I think is that the cap you first used has some kind of resistor built into it. There are so many really creative people working in electronics anything is possible.

If you were to create a circuit that has a resistor in line with the cap and that continues to have the light attached in a way that looks parallel like the one that you have already wired, you might get the same bizarre result. It isn't how the books tell you to do it.

I'm on my way outside to try the battery again. It finally stopped storming here and I will report later

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 21, 2007, 01:52:42 AM
Jeanna:

As far as a built in resistor in the cap. I can't really say.  It is so small already I don't know where they would put it but, anything is possible.  What size resistor would you suggest for my large (almost "D" sized) capacitor?  I have many that I have desoldered from various circuit boards in case I needed them someday.  Did you learn anything outside from today's experiments?  I leaned that it is very cold and raining!!!!  Now I have my led collection and can't do much until I can get outside and play.  I do have a few ideas though.  I also ordered some flashing leds and was playing with one on my existing circuit.  When linked in parallel, my cap will still light the original led and, the flashing one as well.  Fairly bright too.  This is inside using only the volts stored in the little cap from a few weeks ago.  Once I have something, anything, interesting to show, I will make another video.  I still want to play with my array on my tree as I am getting 1.25 vdc just from it.  Now, if I could just find some uranium.... ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 21, 2007, 03:10:11 AM
my understanding of caps was that they released their voltage into a load until they were used, if this is true then that would make your smaller cap more effecient than your larger :P i dont doubt that but all caps have a farad mark on them like 22uF which would me micro farads? any hoot the amount of usable voltage stored in a cap is marked by farads. perhaps you could take a quick look at the caps and see what they say? i will look into it in more detail later unless someone beats me to it. for now im too busy :( no fun for me.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 21, 2007, 03:11:53 AM
Finally some results. Replication results
here goes:
Materials and orientations
"Cu"  means => North and (+)2 1/2 foot long Cu pipe 3/4" pipe hammered 1 1/2 ft down
"Gr"  means =>Graphite carpenter pencil 3 in down
   
"Mg"  means =>South and (-)  Magnesium firestarter 3 in down
"Zn" means => South and (-) Zinc rod 1/4 in diameter hammered 1 1/2 ft down

Cu - Mg 1.305v
Cu - Zn   0.98v
Gr - Mg  1.243v
Gr - Zn   1.020v

So, for me Cu - Mg is the winner but not as deep as yours, Bill, and not as far apart either. I have asked the welding teacher for some graphite rod. I may need to order one too. It was very close.

Oh yeah, I also put the probes on 2 pieces of copper and I saw some voltage. It is dark now and tomorrow I will check out the copper to copper voltages and also what they are at different distances. (unless it rains of course.)

@Stefan
I just re-read some of the earlier posts. Did you ever find a glue sealer for graphite powder? The local hardware store has powdered graphite but no rods.
I have some sodium silicate from another group of experiments I am doing on earthen cements. (geopolymers.org) I wonder if this which only dissolves in a strongly alkaline solution will bind the graphite together. hmm. maybe act as a conductor at earth voltages too? This is probably too many variables, but maybe worth a try.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 21, 2007, 03:26:56 AM
Quote
It is so small already I don't know where they would put it but, anything is possible
have a look at the 555 timer. there is a lot of talk about it on electronics tutorials pages. It has many capacitors drawn in the silicon inside the chip. this is very small :D

I'm not recommending that you spend too much time on those tutorial pages, but maybe a glance will show you how different your circuit is from the others.

Look up 555Timer  you will get a lot of explanations of what it is and how it works. but the capacitor is always parallel to a resistor and the load is in line just before or after the cap/resistor.

I have some undecipherable notes from the day I got a led to shine off a supercap. I will transcribe exactly what I made as it appears in my notes. (If I can find something intelligable)  I'll do that in a couple of hours.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 21, 2007, 03:27:16 AM
Jeanna:

Great work!!!  Is it not amazing that that small magnesium block gives the best volts when coupled to the carbon/graphite material?  When you said north and south did you probe and find the best volts which should be alligned with the meridian in your area and not magnetic north?  And, correct me if I am wrong, but way back in the thread where some folks were saying "galvanic reaction" I tested two similar (same) metals, copper and copper and I got some voltage, not much but it was there when alinged on the meridian.  If you took two copper pipes and put them in salt water or any other electrolite there would be NO voltage...correct?  This is what spurred me on to continue because that told me something else is happening here.  And Jeanna, your best results are with a pencil (graphite) and a very small mag. block.  This is impressive.  Yes, I have this big carbon rod (which I need to sink deeper) but what would I get if I had a similar sized mag. rod?????  This may not ever amount to anything but it amazes me that you can light a few leds for nothing.  I always think in scale and if you can light one, or two...then......?  My carbon rod is 100% pure and has no cladding.  It was about $20 and yes is used in the welding industry but not very much anymore so they had to order it.  Keep up your experiments Jeanna.

Artic Knight:

I can barely read the print on the small cap but it does say "22F"  That sounds way too huge for this size but, what do I know.  I have many others and some say 22000 uf which, if I read my book correctly really means 22,000 1/1000 of a fared which would be 22 farads also right??  I don't know why they do it this way.  All I know is my small cap STILL light not only one led but another flashing one as well.  It has not been connected to the earth cell in weeks.  The larger caps just really lit up the led for like 2 seconds and then, nothing.  More experiments to come.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 21, 2007, 07:35:18 AM
Bill and all,

Here is the circuit that I made that lit the light with only the cap:

2 super caps soldered in series. each capacitor says 5.5V also  FS 0.047F. (?)
The resistor is 1,000 ohms

First I connect neg to neg and pos to pos cap to battery. I hold it there for 5 or 6 seconds.  This gives the juice to the capacitor.
Then I connect the pos side of the cap to the pos side of the led then the neg side of the led to the 1,000 ohm resistor, then the other end of that goes to the neg side of the cap.

The 1,000 ohms gives me about 30 seconds of good light and 2 to 12 more very dim. This will vary with leds. The one I used is green which if I remember, takes the least energy of the leds.

In my notes is a bunch of figuring with the conclusion that says "so, the place to add it is the capacitor... try 36,000 mF

Here are some of the more intelligable lines from those notes:

t=RC Now this aparantly means 1 time constant = 1 mega ohm times 1 microF.  or again:
1 sec=1M ohm*1uF

[ if I want 1 second at 15mA per second then I need 15mA. To get 15mA I need 9 Volts and 600 ohms. If 600 ohms gives me 1 second, then will 36,000 ohms give me 60 seconds? -- The  light won't work cuz 9/36,000=0.3mA -- So, the place to add it is in the capacitor- try 36,000]

I am afraid that is all there is. He didn't understand why I wanted to do this. He thought I should be happy to plug it in, I think :-\  In away I am glad he wasn't so interested in my projects cuz I had to do the figuring myself.


So, this little circuit I did doesn't amount to much but it is the reason I know there is promise to what you did.

I may (I had better) clear off some space (???) and solder up another circuit to be like this one you made and see what happens with some different voltages and see if I can get it to work the way you have. I just ordered a variety of parts that may fill in what I need from my little electronics box of goodies.

fun
Is there anyone else in this group that wants to duplicate Bills circuit too?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 21, 2007, 07:43:07 AM
@Bill i have a idea that might work since you are able to light multiple led's, if you have a chance see if you can find a disposable camera you dont really care about or if you can find one from the local drug store they usually keep the chassis they take the film out of for garbage so they will commonly give you a few if you ask.. or at least in my dealings . this circuit runs off of 1.5 v and is a great boost transformer.  It steps the battery juice up from 1.5 v to up wards of 300 to fill a cap then the circuit lights its neon so you know its charged, this may be a simple one to see if we can get to work with your 1.7 to 1.8 v readings just clip the leads on plus and minus terminals where the battery would have been and your there, hold the charge and see what happens, probably best to diss assemble the thing and take a live meter reading off of the capicator inside it but be real careful if it charges it will arc weld a skrew driver. http://web.instructables.com/id/Disposable-camera-coilgun/ (http://web.instructables.com/id/Disposable-camera-coilgun/) is a simple coil gun but it shows the camera flash board nicley.  Just a thought and if anyone else has at least a volt and a half or so i would recommend trying
                                                                                                                                    Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 21, 2007, 08:08:06 AM
Is it not amazing that that small magnesium block gives the best volts when coupled to the carbon/graphite material? 

When you said north and south did you probe and find the best volts which should be alligned with the meridian in your area and not magnetic north? 

Bill
yes magnesium and carbon thats the ticket.

The question of N S is curious. I would have to pound the rod into the ground then check then take it out then pound it in another place. I sort of checked the alignment. It is something I will do with the mag carbon combo since they are the easiest to move around. Here on the west coast the declination is about 18 degrees east. It is a lot. This question is worth answering. Patrick Flanagan proved that it is the magnetic field that affects the pyramid. but we may be working with something else here. underground currents may relate to different influences from what we are used to.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 21, 2007, 08:28:52 AM
@ Jeanna:

Actually...no.  Joe taught me from the very begining of this thread that, once you place one electrode in the ground you can "probe" around with the second one and move it to whatever allignment works best.  That is what I did.  If you are using the mag. block then I would position your + electrode (carbon/graphite) wherever you want and then push the mag. block part way into the earth and take a reading...and so on and so forth.  That is what I did and it is funny that I am about 3 degrees off of magnetic north and that just happens to be the declination for this area. (I know this from my time flying airplanes here, I still have the charts)  This is facinating about your using multiple caps.  I would not know how to do so but your description will now allow me to give it a go. I am impressed with your experimentaion Jeanna, keep up your efforts.  Is it not amazing that there is ANY voltage at all?  and Free???

@ Joe:

I think I have a few of those cameras lying around here as we speak.  I would have never thought of that.  I enjoy tearing things apart so, I will get started. My only question is, by design, the cap or caps in the camera are meant to charge up and....dump.  Will we need resistor/s in line to slow this down?  Every other cap I have here does what Jeanna said caps should do.  Charge up and.....dump!  I am seriously considering buying another shake light to destroy just to get the cap out of it.  Then I can wire it like Jeanna did and maybe get more storage.  But hey, if I try it and it does not work, at least I got to take something else apart. Ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 21, 2007, 08:43:06 PM
On my way out to move the probe but first:

I hit the neg side of my super cap and left the pos side open to the air. then attached the cap to the light/resistor again and there is light.

Yes, I checked this first by hooking up the light without charging the cap to make sure there was no recharge on the cap and the light was off .

I did this again outside and it didn't work and then again inside and it didn't work again. I will try again I just want to report this right away. arrgh

I got this idea while reading Bill Beaty's stuff.    So, it worked - weakly.

 I guess it won't matter if we are using earth power but Tom Bearden makes a nice description of how to not use up the power in a battery by separating the fill stage from the use stage of a power set up. This is how he sets up his circuits. but his circuits are still over my head. (but I am getting taller every day ;D)

 Bill,

Did you ever read Bill Beaty's description of how a cap works? his site is http.amasci.com. His site takes weeks to read it is so big. also good site. but the page about caps is especially useful, I think.  If that link doesn't work tell me I go and find the right spelling.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 21, 2007, 09:49:49 PM
@bill
            nahh it shouldn't dissipate that bad bill ive taken readings off the cap before. In the coilgun i made i just put a momentary switch off - on cap leg, connect the coil on one side of the switch and the other leg of the coil to the + on the cap. when the button gets hit it dumps the current through the coil. So being that i can charge it and let it sit for a min or so i i think it shouldnt dissapate that quick.
                                                                                                       joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 21, 2007, 10:43:31 PM
@bill
            nahh it shouldn't dissipate that bad bill ive taken readings off the cap before. In the coilgun i made i just put a momentary switch off - on cap leg, connect the coil on one side of the switch and the other leg of the coil to the + on the cap. when the button gets hit it dumps the current through the coil. So being that i can charge it and let it sit for a min or so i i think it shouldnt dissapate that quick.
                                                                                                       joe

joe
It isn't a battery is the reason. It is pure charge. There are no chemicals to be made or broken down for the intake or outflow of charge on a cap.  (T-RC)
And the charge will last in there for a really long time, but as soon as it is hit it dumps 66% of its charge in 1 time constant and is nearly gone in 5 time constants.
Can someone help explain time constants?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 21, 2007, 11:02:24 PM
Brrr! Its cold outside
So, with frozen fingers I have some more results.

This time I checked for the strongest alignment by using the Cu pipe from yesterday and moving the magnesium block around then put everything on that axis. Plus I did some control type elements.

Cu/Cu 0.047v
Cu/cement  0.179v  then I looked again and it had gone to zero so I did it again
Cu.cement  0.264==-->0.15v and still dropping
Cu/Mg  1.232v
Cu/Zn   1.003v
Graphite/Zn  1.020v
Graphite/Mg  1.189v but the mg block was getting dirty so I held the probe hard in place and got
Graphite/Mg   1.388v

all voltages held steady except for the one with cement.

I am intrigued by Stefan's Idea to put the powder onto some material and make a compressed material in the shape of a rod.  Is anyone else intrigued by this? Is there a way to make a longer rod.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 22, 2007, 01:07:22 AM
@jenna
 If i remember right when a cap dumps its load there may be a time constant created by the ESR of the circuit, Its a fun concept to get used to and i dont fully understand it but think of a sharp increase that can only go so high until a on off cycle or bounce back was completed to let  the remainder through it may create a phase differencial because its going through the resistor which slows the second output by 90 degrees.
                                                                             Joe

PS- Thanks for weathering it i would be if every stupid part of my lawn wasen't covered
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on December 22, 2007, 02:22:26 AM
jeanna, just wanted to congratulate u with the experiments.  I am sure many of us are watching what you do.  The results with the voltages are very helpful and make you think.
I have some activated carbon lying around, I wonder if that would work...
Did you notice any difference between lying the rods horizontally vs putting them vertical?
Also, could you check the voltages between the items while they are lying on a kitchen table or some other wooden surface?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 22, 2007, 03:31:27 AM
This should be a terrible sketch of what I want to try next. (Thanks to Localjoe for the circuit suggestion)  I will have to obtain more materials which will take some time.  I feel, from my experience, that they have to be the same "dissimilar" (is that possible?? ha ha) metals on the north and south.  You know, three carbon rods, three mag. blocks, etc.

I have been reading all I can about capacitors and, except for Sears using them as quick charging batteries for their screw guns, I can't find anything that says they will work like a battery like my little cap has been doing.  Still learning here.


@ Jeanna:

Great work out there!!!  Thanks for the info on Beaty.  I will look that up and read.  I love to read. I don't think messing with powdered graphite or carbon is going to work, and if it does it will not work as well as the isopressed and sintered rods.  The binder, in this case, some sort of conductive glue, will make up a certain percent of the mixture and thereby weaken the properties.  Of course, I never tried it and maybe it won't be the same as a condensed rod of the same size but still might be more than a carpenter's pencil.  Who knows?  Hey, stupid question here.  I have seen where I can buy, pretty cheap, carbon/graphite powder by the pound.  what if someone were to dig a hole and say fill it almost up with this powder, no glue, just the powder.  Could one stick electrode pick-ups into the pile and take the volts off of that?  I guess the rain would raise hell with it after a while but, if it's cheap.....????  Just a thought.

@ Joe:

I am going to rip one of those cameras apart here soon and see what happens. I'll let you know.

@ akashh:

That's a good suggestion about testing out of the ground.  I never did that.  I would assume there would be NO voltage between them in air but, since I did not do it, I don't really know do I?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 22, 2007, 07:55:27 AM
@jenna
 If i remember right when a cap dumps its load there may be a time constant created by the ESR of the circuit, Its a fun concept to get used to and i dont fully understand it but think of a sharp increase that can only go so high until a on off cycle or bounce back was completed to let  the remainder through it may create a phase differencial because its going through the resistor which slows the second output by 90 degrees.
                                                                             Joe

PS- Thanks for weathering it i would be if every stupid part of my lawn wasen't covered
What do you mean by 90 degrees?
What's ESR?
Are both of those things to do with coils?

anyway I think we're talking about the same thing but I don't know but you may be talking about a more complex and "engineered" version of it.

 I'm gonna try to find a graph on line. If I can't find one, I will make a hand drawn version on my tablet. There are 2 graphs. One for the charging and one for the discharging. In the simple way the charging follows one of the graphs and discharging the other. The curve describes the charging and discharging in ohms and farads.  T=RC T in seconds, R in ohms, C in farads.

The inductor has exactly the same shape graph which describes current increasing and decreasing in ohms and henries. T=L/R T in seconds. R in ohms, L in henries


I will see what I can find and pass it along.

Quote
Did you notice any difference between lying the rods horizontally vs putting them vertical?
Also, could you check the voltages between the items while they are lying on a kitchen table or some other wooden surface?

I could do it again. I remember when I did this the first time some weeks ago, the voltage was not as high. I can do it again.
Also, yes I did check out the voltage dry in the house - nada
And today since I brought the mag inside for cleaning and checking out I checked it against some copper and some steel. (I had left the pencils in the shed) The reading was 0.000v

This is all very exciting. The earth is making a big difference. I think the big challenge for us is to figure how to double and redouble it. In that regard, I suspect the depth is how we'll get it. I will however, make a set of connected cells like the one joe drew, since that may do it also.

Thank you all for your encouragement! I'm so accustomed to doing these things in a vacuum, it is really nice to be in a think tank.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on December 22, 2007, 01:24:16 PM
I stuck two copper rods in the earth about half a foot today and managed to get about 36 mV out of them at no current.  However, I began to wonder whether the voltage was in fact a reaction between the copper an my probe.  Sticking both probes in the earth resulted in 0V most of the time but I also did manage to get a very small voltage (20mV) with just probes in the ground.  Then I did something interesting - I put the multimeter on resistance and started to measure the resistance between my probes.  I got values of over 20k and sometimes 5 k depending on how well the probe was stuck in the ground.  I then did the same with the small copper rods and got about 5k and 10k depending on how deeply I put them in the ground.
I think, although I am not sure, that the resistance between the rods is what gives us the voltage.  When u bury 2 copper rods deeply, I am sure there will be no volts (well,not sure, but I think).  But the higher the resistance the more the voltage (and less the current).  Does this make sense? 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 22, 2007, 04:38:36 PM
on normal science terms the greater the resistance the less the voltage however i have seen a couple free energy devices that claim raising the resistance or load increases their devices ability to increas its output to match... perhaps something twisted like that may be occuring but i dont see why it would work like that.  when your measuring resistance from one pole to the next your measuring as if your passing a voltage from one through the ground to the other, in this battery if im not mistaken we need 2 poles only because the voltage has to have a return path (but does not need to reach the other pole) because the voltage from the return path does not need to reach the collecter there is no increase in resistance and thus as bill says he has experienced or was it joe? the farther the poles are from each other the greater the electrical potential, but the greater the resistance as well! however remember voltage has to have an in and an out, with that considered the ground provides the current but when it returns to ground it does not return to the other pole (unless a chemical reaction is occuring)   

my question is has someone tried to take a car battery or other 12 volt high power battery and "charge" their earth battery? it only needs a second or two to activate or in my case with the sand batteries increase the voltage by a rediculas 200% ! from .04 volt to .76!
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 22, 2007, 08:42:28 PM

@ Jeanna:

Great work out there!!!  Thanks for the info on Beaty.  I will look that up and read.  I love to read. I don't think messing with powdered graphite or carbon is going to work, and if it does it will not work as well as the isopressed and sintered rods.  The binder, in this case, some sort of conductive glue, will make up a certain percent of the mixture and thereby weaken the properties.  Of course, I never tried it and maybe it won't be the same as a condensed rod of the same size but still might be more than a carpenter's pencil.  Who knows?  Hey, stupid question here.  I have seen where I can buy, pretty cheap, carbon/graphite powder by the pound.  what if someone were to dig a hole and say fill it almost up with this powder, no glue, just the powder.  Could one stick electrode pick-ups into the pile and take the volts off of that?  I guess the rain would raise hell with it after a while but, if it's cheap.....????  Just a thought.

G'day Bill,

How about drilling a hole in a lump of coal, insert a wire into it (insulated and stripped where it enters the coal to avoid galvanic action) and burying that. It would be cheap and it might just work  :)

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on December 22, 2007, 09:07:49 PM
To connect graphite rods electrically it is best to use silver wire or silver coated wire, cause it will not give any big difference voltage due to low dissimular metals...
you could also use a stainless steel screw screwed into the graphite, but the ss screw will be consumed after a while, cause graphite is etching the stainless steel away...
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 22, 2007, 09:27:39 PM
on normal science terms the greater the resistance the less the voltage however i have seen a couple free energy devices that claim raising the resistance or load increases their devices ability to increas its output to match... perhaps something twisted like that may be occuring but i dont see why it would work like that.
That is sort of what I am looking to find

I am guessing that it is possible because this earth is a giant motor, with the metal magnet inside a magnetic field. The magnetic field looks just like the shavings around a dipole magnet on a table. OK so, the part that all the scientists (not all) seem to ignore is that this magnet is careering through space. So, this magnet with its charge (from the sun )  is moving and spinning.  Since motors can be turned into generators I am interested in finding a way to do this.

The biggest problem here is not if we can get this power (lightning rods  ;) ), but how to make it small enough that we survive getting this power.

I like this earth battery cuz it seems a way to get a confined amount of electricity in an orderly and useful way.

One day in that electronics class, I realized that you can't get useful power without a resistor. Too much and it stops everything, but without it you just get a blast of voltage and SINCE it expressed itself as all voltage there were no amps. Also a wire is a resistor. The thinner the wire the greater the resistance. Bills device shows that we are indeed getting amps as well as volts

My electronics teacher never allowed me to use the amp meter. He said it was too confounded by the workings of the meter itself. It is probably there for electricians testing wall plugs etc.

 
 
Quote
when your measuring resistance from one pole to the next your measuring as if your passing a voltage from one through the ground to the other, in this battery if im not mistaken we need 2 poles only because the voltage has to have a return path (but does not need to reach the other pole) because the voltage from the return path does not need to reach the collecter there is no increase in resistance and thus as bill says he has experienced or was it joe? the farther the poles are from each other the greater the electrical potential, but the greater the resistance as well! however remember voltage has to have an in and an out, with that considered the ground provides the current but when it returns to ground it does not return to the other pole (unless a chemical reaction is occuring)   


or maybe unless there is another pole and something that draws the power away, thus "directing" this charge to the other pole. (the meter may be just the draw that is needed to direct it to the pole.)

Or, maybe it is because there is more resistance that there is more voltage when the poles are farther apart??

Quote
my question is has someone tried to take a car battery or other 12 volt high power battery and "charge" their earth battery? it only needs a second or two to activate or in my case with the sand batteries increase the voltage by a rediculas 200% ! from .04 volt to .76!

Does it stay there? If you charge an area of earth through 2 poles does it stay charged?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 22, 2007, 10:34:15 PM
G'day all,

Just found this one, http://www.mondovista.com/meyers/ really weird but reminiscent of Stubblefield in a way, except is is not buried in the ground.

Have fun

Hans von Lieven

PS. Still struggling with Helmholtz and Pamenides that is why my promised next essay is so long in coming. Still working on it though.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 22, 2007, 10:57:18 PM
hansvonlieven, "Just found this one, http://www.mondovista.com/meyers/ really weird but reminiscent of Stubblefield in a way, except is is not buried in the ground."



 Absorber,  hmmmm, LOL  What does my theory consist of? What did my design consist of?

 His design didn't even need to attract any certain frequency, it seemed to have worked off all frenquencies. hmmm It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 22, 2007, 11:04:33 PM
What design? Can you post a sketch?

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 22, 2007, 11:14:17 PM
 I will try but I seem to have a hard time posting pictures here. I could probably add it to my web site and post the link if you are really interested enough.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 22, 2007, 11:33:31 PM
just create your post as normal, then go to the bottom where it says Attach click on the Browse button and locate the picture on your computer, double click on the graphic you want to send and post. Simple as this. You can post more than one picture if you want.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 22, 2007, 11:41:00 PM
hansvonlieven, ok, thanks. Give me a few because I am slow at drawing using a computer.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 23, 2007, 12:22:06 AM
@ Hans:

I'm trying to catch up here today.  First, fantastic idea with the coal, easy to get, easy to try and cheap.  I wonder if anthracite or bituminous coal makes any difference?  And if it does not work, so what?  If it does work, then very very easy to make multiple "positive" electrode cells out of them.  I wish I had thought of it.  Second, that story and patent info on the "Absorber" seems to me to be right in line with all of this.  I will go back and reread it as I can't really grasp how it operates after the first reading.. A lot of info there.  I don't know where you find all this great stuff.  At first glance with the magnets and the zinc plates (in the simple version) it looks a bit similar to the device being experimented with in the pyramid topic.  Not the same, but maybe a distant cousin?

@ Jeanna:

Good job in testing the materials in "air".  I suspected no volts but, now we know for sure.  Always better to know. I still think the earth is a large capacitor but maybe, it is a motor of sorts too?  And a giant magnet?  All of the above?

@ Artic Knight:

Somewhere near the early part of this topic, one of the posts of an early patent (or a link to it) spoke of just that.  "Priming the pump".  It may have been mentioned on the Stubblefield stuff, I can't remember.  Pretty easy to try and I don't see it cutting down on anything.  It would either improve things, or stay the same I should think.  Well then again, it might short out or drain my car's battery....oops.  Because, in a way, it would be like hooking up both battery (car) terminals to "ground".  Of course one is a positive ground and one neg. but both might function as earth grounds to the car battery's operation.  Who knows?  Maybe I could try it with a nine volt radio battery first just to see?

I only have a few days left to get my outdoor Christmas lights (a few different colored leds) to run off my earth battery.  I don't know if I am gonna make it or not.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 23, 2007, 12:34:01 AM
@ Hans:

I don't know where you find all this great stuff. 

It's called diligent research  :D

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 23, 2007, 01:02:17 AM
@ nightlife:

I have been thinking about a way to convey this to you in a nice manner as I always attempt to get along with people on this forum, and I am not into flame wars.  You have this all encompassing theory, I am well aware of it as I am sure most are as you started I don't know how many topics dealing with it.  It is so all encompassing that, no matter what anyone comes up with that works it "fits" your theory.  That's all fine.  A theory of everything is great but only as far as a theory can go.  I think I speak for most of us here in saying that we all have what we think is a pretty good understanding of the way things work.  Do we know everything?  Of course not.  Could conventional science have missed something along the way through history that might help the world now?  I believe the answer is yes and I think that is why most of us are here.

I like some parts of your thinking but until you can post drawings of devices that work, or almost work, or pictures, or videos, I don't think you will get very far with it.  Just look at poor Lawrence on his thread.  Lawrence is "all theory" and he even says so himself.  I think most of us here are hands on types and if we saw you post something that held any promise at all, many people on this forum would dive in and help you to make it work, or prove that it does not, in which case you could try something else.

A great example is this topic here.  Joe posted some crazy stuff about sticking some rods into the ground to get free electricity.  I read it and was totally working along another line for over ten years.  I gave it a try, even though I kinda thought it was a waste of time.  But, and here is the difference I think, Joe not only told of this crazy idea, he told of how he went about testing it in a way that anyone could replicate, which I, and now others, have done.  If Joe just said, "I think you can get free electricity out of the earth," and kept repeating it here, and in other topics all over the forum, I don't think many would have paid him much attention.  I would not have.

So, please take this in the spirit in which it is intended.  Design some experiments based upon your theory...come up with a possible device....and post it.  Let others try to replicate it or help you with it.  There are a lot of very intelligent folks here that I have seen dive into others work to help push it along.  If you turn out to be wrong, better to know sooner than later so you can work on something else, right?  Maybe others have a different opinion but this is mine and I am responsible for the contents of this post. (Sounds like a political ad)  Best of luck on your projects.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 23, 2007, 01:15:32 AM
It is raining again, :-[ ,  so no meter outside.

So, I collected all the electrodes from the shed and truly checked them out on the wooden table inside.
Cu & Graphite on the + side
Cu, Graphite, Mg, Zn and some steel on the - side

everything came up as zero.
well, no the Cu+ to Mg- showed 0.003v

jeanna

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 23, 2007, 03:54:11 AM
G'day Gentlemen,

This is the bare bones "Absorber" patented by Roy J Meyers in 1913. Even though there are far more complex versions in the patent, Meyers is adamant that it works like this without the embellishments.

Probably quite a few of you will want to try this since it is a model of simplicity and cheap to make.

I have created another one of my priceless works of graphic art  :D to show you what is involved.

(http://keelytech.com/overunity/myersabsorber.jpg)

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 23, 2007, 04:05:26 AM
@ Hans:

Great graphics!!!  The thing that jumps out at me right away is the north/south alignment  We have seen this before have we not?  I think he said in his patent wording...."Alignment with the geographical north" or something like that.  That's back to Stubblefield and the alignment with the north/south meridian. (as opposed to magnetic north/south)  Well if Jeanna can brave the cold, I have no cases scheduled for Sunday so, I may as well drift outside and play around a bit.  What did you use to produce the graphics Hans?  I attempt to use both ms paint and google sketch up but both seem to require drawing and the only way I have to do that is using my mouse which, will NOT follow where I want it to go most of the time.  I am printing out your circuit and it is on my list of experiments now.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 23, 2007, 04:09:04 AM
This one was done with MS paint. I find it is very good for basic graphics, when it gets beyond what it can do I use Paint Shop Pro.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 23, 2007, 04:21:51 AM
Pirate88179, thank you for keeping your words kind and I was only trying to get some of you to reason with common sense to help steer everyone in the right direction. Hans seems to have the concept for the most part and I was replying to a post he left here.

 Since you were so kind, I will do you all a favor that is working on this earth battery theory and that is to tell you all that you must use 2 sets post, 2 Zinc and 2 copper. The first sets copper will have to have one lead attached to the other sets zinc and the first sets zinc will have to have a lead attached to that to be the ground. The other sets copper post will be the positive.

            1st set of post
 copper (positive)   zinc (to second sets copper)

            2nd set of post
 copper (to first sets zinc)    zinc (negative)


 Not sure how much power it will create but the do sell kits to build these to run clocks using two flower pots as the power source and you can buy them at Hobby Lobby for about $20.00 

 As for my theory, I am again sorry to aggravate you all but as I said, you must rely on common sense when dealing with things that no one as ever seen. Most here want to think of a electron as a solid but yet wants to think it can go through brick walls. Then we have everyone here wanting to make electricity or some other form of energy but then they don?t want to start with the basics and find out what energy is. I started several threads to try and get you people to open your minds and let some common sense take over to help you all achieve your goals. Big money has painted the picture most of you have in your heads and I am just trying to get you all to understand that you cant always believe what you read or even what you have been taught because believe it or not, big money controls what you can be taught as well as most of what you read.

 Just think about that and I will from now on post drawings of my ideas now that Hans has explained to me how I can post them. I just started a Youtube account so the I can do some experiments and video record them and post them for all to see. I again am not here to piss anyone off but at the same time I am not here to waste my time with ignorance. When I first started I explained to you all that I am a mechanical problem solver by trade. I solve problems that people with years of schooling could not. I achieve my goals by using common sense. I know this is a far cry from what I am used to but I am getting to know what is going on and what is needed to solve our problems with this particular situation.

 Good day to you and I wish everyone happy holidays.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 23, 2007, 04:34:36 AM
G'day nightlife,

You are talking here about a simple galvanic cell which is what they use in flowerpots. This is NOT what we are talking about here though. We appear to be dealing with a totally different phenomenon here though there will always be some sort of galvanic action as a component.

Galvanic action is independent of alignment. What we are doing apparently is not. That should be enough to raise eyebrows, alas not many seem to grasp the significance of this.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 23, 2007, 07:14:38 AM
tell you all that you must use 2 sets post, 2 Zinc and 2 copper. The first sets copper will have to have one lead attached to the other sets zinc and the first sets zinc will have to have a lead attached to that to be the ground. The other sets copper post will be the positive.

            1st set of post
 copper (positive)   zinc (to second sets copper)

            2nd set of post
 copper (to first sets zinc)    zinc (negative)


 Not sure how much power it will create

Nitelife,

We had a link a couple of weeks ago to theverylastpageoftheinternet.com (Don Adsitt's site) where an extensive array is proposed to produce 120 volts by doing something like your suggestion using 120 copper tubes arranged 12across x 10deep. each copper tube had a zinc nail inside it with earth inside the copper tube, all buried in the earth with a few other details.

I just put a couple of pieces together which I hope will hold up long enough to try this outside the next time the rain stops. I will only be using 2 or maybe 3 sets of copper pipe with zinc inside wired in series like this. I expect to see about 3 volts if it works.
The last time I did this I got zero volts from the combination where I had had around 1 volt from a single cell. I wanted to check it out again being more careful this time and following those details more carefully.

we'll see I bought the torch but I have never soldered using a torch before. It should be easy enough, but we'll see. I will of course report any results here.
Stay tuned.
 ;)
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 23, 2007, 08:35:15 PM
jeanna, I cant wait to hear about your results. I personally will be testing a few things after the holidays. Good luck to you and all and I do hope everyone has a fun filled holiday season.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 23, 2007, 09:31:19 PM
@ All:

Below is copied and pasted from something I just read about a use for some of the new supercapacitors:


"The new Coleman Flash Cell screwdriver can recharge in 90 seconds flat and it doesn?t use a single battery to do it. How can that be? Rather than rely on rechargeable batteries that can take up to an hour and a half to charge up, the Coleman design relies and a high energy capacitor. Unfortunately, while it can recharge lickety split, users will be charging their screwdriver more often than it?s lithium or NiCad cousins. A basic rechargeable battery powered screwdriver can handle around 35-40 screws between recharge cycles, while the FlashCell gives out after a little over half that (22).


Now while having recharge the capacitor so often may sound like a royal pain, the advantage the FlashCell has is that the capacitor doesn?t have to deal with dying over time (it has a rated charging life of about 500,000 charging cycles) or dealing with memory issues due to inactivity. After remaining idle for months, the maker of the Flash Cell - Products International ? claims that the FlashCell will retain about 85% of its charge. That?s pretty impressive.

What?s cool about it is that while this is a new technology, since tools like this stay idle for a long time with the average household user. And while the power needs of other tools probably render this concept impractical, it could be the next step in focusing on more green technologies that can do the job and keep the environment healthier.

Cost is about $99."


I am pretty sure my little cap. is a super cap.  I have looked them up and found several that appear identical to mine.  I read that one of the suggested uses for the supercapacitor is to light leds over a long period of time. So, somehow these must not "dump" 66% of their charge at once.  This is possibly why they are being used in small hand tools now.  No memory problems like batteries and over 1/2 million charge/recharge cycles. I am going to see if my Local RadioShack has some.

@ Jeanna:

Best of luck with your experiments out there.  My impression is that you won't get any where near the volts you would get using carbon and magnesium, but, we will see.  Best I did here with copper was something like .8 volts or so.  Going for three volts eh?  I hope I beat you there but, I am not taking any bets on it ha ha.  I am wasting a lot of time trying to figure out what to do next while I should just be doing it.  I am going to try to crack the 2 volt reading as my next goal.  If you hit 3, I guess I'll have to re-think my approach.  Best of luck.

Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it and to all of the others I wish whatever is appropriate for this time of year in your country.

Bill


Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on December 23, 2007, 10:06:49 PM
Hello to all,
Just found this group last night. Finally got registered just after trying out a rod of carbon encased in very thin copper, it's what is used to arc-gouge (sp) with a welding machine. The other rod was a plain steel piece. They were placed about 16 inches apart, short leads on my meter, I was instantly amazed by the fact that I got .96 VDC @ .995  amps. This is so far out, I can just see it now, my back yard will look like a porcupine!
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hartiberlin on December 23, 2007, 11:10:07 PM
Hi sid10,
welcome,
how did you measure exactly the amps ?
Is this a short circuit current with your DVM meter ?
Or analog amp meter ?
On what max settings of your meter did you measure it ?
Does it change on another settings of your meter,
e.g. 2 amps setting or 10 amps setting ?


Current level seems abit high for such a setup...

Do you live near a transformer station or a High voltage line ?

Please try on a real load like a 1 Ohm, 10 Ohm and 100 Ohm resistor.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 24, 2007, 02:24:03 AM
Hello to all,
Just found this group last night. Finally got registered just after trying out a rod of carbon encased in very thin copper, it's what is used to arc-gouge (sp) with a welding machine. The other rod was a plain steel piece. They were placed about 16 inches apart, short leads on my meter, I was instantly amazed by the fact that I got .96 VDC @ .995  amps. This is so far out, I can just see it now, my back yard will look like a porcupine!

Welcome Sid10,

This carbon rod encased on copper sounds interesting to me. As you have probably read, Pirate88179 (Bill) has achieved excellent results using carbon and Magnesium. I asked the welding "teacher" last evening for some of either and he told me he has no access. He teaches in a high school which is where I found him teaching adults to weld. Does this rod have a particular name? Are you in the US?

So, did you try your test with different N-S compass directions to find the best one? (I suspect these will vary according to our location.) Its good to include that in your tests so we are all doing the same sort of thing all around the globe.

At the moment we are trying to add to the effect we are getting from one cell. I had the very surprising result that the voltage went to zero when I tried to put them in series.

Joe made an excellent suggestion which Bill is planning to try. I am too. It rained all day so I did other things. FYI on my list is to use 3 copper tubes and wire them together then tie them to 3 zinc rods that are also wired together and measure the voltage. (That is Joe's suggestion) Also, and using the same pipes and rods I will link up 3 cells of zinc inside copper pipe with dirt also inside the pipe and red paint   (?)  on the outside of the copper pipe plastic underneath and all wired together in series.  (I am not sure who gets the credit for this one, but if it works, I will try to find that person to give credit.)

But I don't want to mess up my meter in the rain so I will do it next non raining day.

Did you set up a control for your test? just do the same thing in the house on a table. and also in water. Thus you have a control for  just the metals not touching and a regular wet cell. water or acid or what you think.

welcome to the fun.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on December 24, 2007, 02:25:22 AM
I guess you must have measured milliamps by mistake... unless copper/carbon is something we did not try yet.  Did anyone else test copper coated carbon rods?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 24, 2007, 03:09:44 AM
 
Quote
next while I should just be doing it.  I am going to try to crack the 2 volt reading as my next goal.  If you hit 3, I guess I'll have to re-think my approach.  Best of luck.

Right, Bill

I just want to make sure (?) that this series type thing is nothing but galvanic before I give up on it. The 10 pager from Don Adsitt's site claims 12v multiplied to 120v, but at the bottom of the page is written, I assume by Don, that he tried it and it doesn't work. Not much info and it is easy. I can try to get 3 cells to give me 3 v. easy.

I am very impressed with the magnesium carbon results. I bought the last fire brick the hardware store had and these pencils prove the point but are so breakable, I see these as the best combo, but for the series concept the copper zinc will show it. And  it will be easy to check the copper for changes.

So, If you put a bunch of glass christmas balls in the shape of a tree and shine a single red led at them will you get a lit up tree? Maybe it needs to have needles ;D


also, I am wondering why the wire between the 2 horseshoe magnets had to be uninsulated?

jeanna



Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on December 24, 2007, 03:49:40 AM
This carbon rod encased on copper sounds interesting to me. Does this rod have a particular name? Are you in the US?
jeanna

Hi Jeanna,

It is called Air Carbon-Gouging Electrode You can find it at www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com) search for 'gouging'.  It is on page 3267 of their catalog.  They sell them copper coated or plain.
George

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 24, 2007, 03:50:54 AM
Hello all:

Well today, I actually did a little more experimenting.  (cold)  I wired my tree array,(I have pictures of it posted somewhere way back) which is -, to the neg. side of the meter and also used a jumper to the neg. side of the meter (probe) from the magnesium block which is also -.  The + probe of the meter went to the carbon rod.  1.6 vdc.  Disconnecting the magnesium block from the mix it went down to 1.25 which is common for the tree array.  Hooking the magnesium block back up and testing just between it and the carbon rod it was back up to 1.8 vdc which is what I have been getting lately.  So, adding the tree array into the mix on the - side raised the volts from it but lowered the volts from the carbon rod/mag. block setup.

I am still not giving up on the series stuff just yet.  Hans's idea with the coal is great.  But, although Kentucky produces a lot of the coal for the US would you believe no one around here even sells it?????   I have made many inquiries with no luck as of yet.  I am sure I can find some somewhere.  The test to do, from my point of view, would be three blocks of coal drilled and wire implanted into it wired together and buried in the ground.  Three magnesium blocks wired together and also buried separately in the ground.  Then test for potential between the cells as suggested by Joe.  I think this is promissing.

Welcome to Sid10.  I also think you were possibly reading off the milliamp scale so it would be good to double check that.  If not, this would be a huge leap ahead and we, I am sure, would be very interested in your experiments.  As Jeanna said, welcome to the fun.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 24, 2007, 07:22:16 AM
@ all ... small bit of good news,
            I spoke with emdevices from the micro tpu forum and explained to him what our readings were about a week or less ago and he confirms that the potential we have as long as we dump it into a parallel cap bank should be enough to start oscillations in the micro tpu without stepping it up first.

So concept for usable power here is that we fill say 5 to 10  5v large farad number caps... 36000 mfd or higher and connect their terminals in parallel with the electrodes off the other end of the cap bank we would feed this micro tpu-  the output of this device should be enough to light a few led's while charging a battery... some of the folks in that fourm have led's running off of one cap and this device for over 2 hrs on a single charge to the cap...

We have a indefinite supply as opposed to this single charge so i see this as being the next goal .. im getting a new soldering iorn with a base and temp control for Christmas ...  Then these small soldering projects wont be such a nightmare...

I had my  radio shack tip break in half off of the iron while i was barely pushing on some pcb .. i spilled my soda when my arm smaked the table and at that point i broke the iron in  half at the plastic joint and threw it.... freakin rs crap. :o
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 24, 2007, 07:55:28 AM
G'day all,

I have not been sitting idle in spite of some difficult circumstances. I am still working on the Roy Meyer device. There are a number of strange aspects to it. I have almost finished another one of my "stunning graphics"  ;D to show what I mean. I should be able to post this within a day or two.

Merry Christmas to you all, Muslims, Hindus, Jews and Christians alike even to you Atheists. There is nothing wrong with wishing others well no matter what religion they believe in, so I will NOT do the politically correct thing and qualify it.

I wish you all well, and hope there will be peace on this f*cking globe one of these days.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 24, 2007, 08:25:35 AM
the potential we have as long as we dump it into a parallel cap bank should be enough to start oscillations in the micro tpu without stepping it up first.

So concept for usable power here is that we fill say 5 to 10  5v large farad number caps... 36000 mfd or higher and connect their terminals in parallel with the electrodes off the other end of the cap bank we would feed this micro tpu-  the output of this device should be enough to light a few led's while charging a battery... some of the folks in that fourm have led's running off of one cap and this device for over 2 hrs on a single charge to the cap...

We have a indefinite supply as opposed to this single charge so i see this as being the next goal

Hey Joe,
good work on the other thread. Whats a tpu? I didn't get too far on google, I will look some more but...

Would you be willing to draw this nice parallel circuit that gives oscillation? Are you talking astable multivibrator here? or a coil? I need to be studying  oscillators. some help would be great.

Quote
But, although Kentucky produces a lot of the coal for the US would you believe no one around here even sells it?????

Darn!!! I was hoping you would be able to tell me.

Well I'm gonna buy a carbon gouging stick. I'll try that.--Thanks George

So, earlier I was walking around with my meter and I tried this pebble thing I made. It gave me a wild reading up and down I could barely read it. I was reading just voltage. From 0.12v to 0.001 volts and up and down. It was crazy.

  A few minutes ago I was at a thread nobody seems to be looking at anymore about John Hutchison effect. There was some talk about his picking up dirt and hinting that he starts there.

Now, backing up some more, last summer I started to learn about sodium silicate and how this french man named Prof. Davidovits first dissolved  clay in NaCo3 and water then added crushed limestone and made limestone which hardened at normal temperatures and was indistinguishable from mined limestone. His research continued the work of Kuhlmann another frenchman from 1866 who coined the term "silicatize".

To silicatize something - kuhlmann started with a ball of clay- he painted it with sodium silicate (water glass).

I wasn't getting very far in my replication of making limestone when I read this so I painted some of my too crumbly not really limestone with this sodium silicate.  It dried shiny and hard. Kuhlmann added several coats. I only added 2.  It didn't seem to have much to do with earth batteries until today.

Hutchison I guess treats his rocks with high voltage as they are solidifying and they retain some charge.

I know this isn't really on our subject and I won't continue, but I thought you guys might be wanting this information so there it was.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 24, 2007, 10:29:19 AM
@ georgemay:

I used to buy from Mcmaster-Carr all the time.  I never thought of looking there for our materials.  Thank you for directing us to them.

@ Jeanna:

I have always said that Hutch is either a genius or an idiot and I have always leaned toward genius.  Interesting that he says in his videos that he has to "juice" the mix to get it going.  This sounds familiar.  Priming the pump again like some have done with their earth batteries.  I have not tried that yet...it is on my list.

@Localjoe:

I finally used two magnifying glasses and read the label on my cap.  0.22F and 5 volt.  .22 F is still large so I still think this is a supercap or ultra cap. (you have seen the small size of it) I would like to buy like 5 of these and wire them as you suggested.  I have not yet tried to see how long it will burn my led but I suspect it will be longer than 2 hours, and, with no added circuitry.  I will time it.
I mean, this thing has not been hooked to my outside cell for weeks and, when I connect the + wire to complete the circuit....still very bright.  I know this just means it holds it well but I will time the constant running of one led to see.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 24, 2007, 08:34:49 PM
jenna where did you get the water glass? i want that for my sand batteries! (hutchison batteries)

im working on making a tesla coil now (not sure if i said this) i will be able to post some neat experiments in a few days. my verison of the tesla is the main conducting coil grounded to a single pole earth cell and the secondary (charging) coil hopefully will produce large currents. 

also on my list is to add a regular cell to charge the tesla and see how this effects things :D
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on December 24, 2007, 08:42:23 PM
Ho Ho Ho and Merry Christmas. Track Santa with your Kids at this Norad site:
http://www.noradsanta.org/
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 24, 2007, 10:23:47 PM
Led/capacitor test results:

2:18 p.m.  I connected the led to the small cap. after charging the cap. on the cell outside for about 20 minutes.  I let it burn on my bookshelf inside to see how long it will stay illuminated.

3:20 p.m.  Led is still lit but growing very faint as I type this. I can still see it in the dark.  It was what I would call bright for well over 45 minutes.  This was just with my one cap. (5v .22f)  I wonder what would happen with 5 connected together as Joe suggested?

Tomorrow, I might give a few ideas of mine a go outside on the cell.  If anything interesting happens I will post a video.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 24, 2007, 11:25:24 PM
Bill ... awesome! were making great progress
            So now think of this... Your starting to realize the potential we have available here ... The folks in the micro tpu thread started out charging a single cap that was much smaller than bills and letting just that energy oscillate through this device and it allowed led's to be lit for anywhere from an hr and a half to 2 .. thats with a single charge.  If This device is supplied power through a few caps in parallel we would be able to light at least 4 ultra bright led's and trickle charge a battery that could be used for a number of things. So say you have these rows of carbon rods in your back yard with some mg blocks  running parallel like our latest exp feeding a cap bank consisting of a 3- 5 caps of a large mfd raiting bills are great mine arent even half that big ... .22f is sweet5 of those would give you almost a farad..  That can do some work ... or some sparking .. ha your choice
                                                                                                                            Joe                             
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 25, 2007, 04:10:32 AM
jenna where did you get the water glass? i want that for my sand batteries! (hutchison batteries)




I got the water glass from the chemistry store in South Carolina. It cost about $10 but the shipping was about $20! Lehman's Non-Electric also sells it.( In the 1800's it was commonly used to extend the life of eggs without refrigeration.)  also frostic.com has it.  I searched google to find these.

Quote
im working on making a tesla coil now (not sure if i said this) i will be able to post some neat experiments in a few days. my verison of the tesla is the main conducting coil grounded to a single pole earth cell and the secondary (charging) coil hopefully will produce large currents. 

Excellent. If you decide to post it on a tesla coil thread, please notify me here when you do.

@Joe,
I really can't find the tpu thread you are talking about. Please send me the link so I might read along.
thanks

Also, did I missunderstand?
Quote
So say you have these rows of carbon rods in your back yard with some mg blocks  running parallel like our latest exp feeding a cap bank


I thought Bill was up to now still working with just the one cell? If his single cell is enough to stimulate the charge through a micro tpu with parallel caps etc. Please put it all out including the tpu circuit. 

Also, did you make this tpu for yourself yet?
I have a small "astable multivibrator " that I made in that high school class. It was made to run on a 3v or 9v battery (I don't remember) but it should be easy to change if that is all. But, I think your other group must be using a chip ? Please give the details? -or where to find them.

nevermind. I think I found them

The night is still young, I will look some more before R and the sleigh come  to pick me up  :D
Have a good one.

thanks

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 25, 2007, 05:08:33 AM
@ jenna
        Here is the link for you http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3599.585.html and a kind member named groundloop has already posted a circuit diagram for us in that thread... sweeet
                                                                                                                                    Merry christmas
                                                                                                                                   WHAT DO I WANT .... I WANT SAMSON
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on December 25, 2007, 05:09:28 AM
[img]Hello again,
Hartiberlin, I have a el-cheapo digital meter Actron had it set on DCV side of scale on 20 to get voltage and 200 m to get amps. I'm thinking that 200 m means millamps. So does the reading that I got mean nearly 1 amp it was something like .997 ?
Yes there is a power pole in the back yard about 50 feet from my test site. Does this cause problems? Don't mean to sound dumb just haven't had time to read all of the post.
No Jeanna I didn't try for a control but I will before bed tonight.
Thanks Georgemay, it's been a long time since I saw a couple of guys cutting a rather large piece of underground pipe with these rods, didn't really know what they were called and now that you've mentioned it there was a large air compressor being used at the same time.
It's funny that I would come across that piece of gouging rod in the storage shop of the place that we just bought.
Jeanna, we're in SW Louisiana just move here from Mobile Al, Gulfport Ms before that thanks to Katerina.
Can some one tell a dumb cajun how to post a pic of meter and rods?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 25, 2007, 06:49:35 AM
I promise not to call you dumb but i reserve the right to say "press any key to begin",Hey wheres the any key..


Welcome and hello,
   If you look below the text window while you reply you will see the Attach:_________________ thing with a browse button next to it on the right, just hit that and then find the file you wanna attach in the window it pops open for you.  Then after you select the file and confirm it just hit post like normal
                                                              Thanks and Merry  HO HO Day     
                                                                 Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2007, 07:18:23 AM
sid10:

My understanding of your meter reading would be .997 milliamps if on the 200 milliamp scale.  That's the scale I was on when I got about 2 point something mA.  If I am wrong about this please, others correct me.  If correct, that's still good because we hear all the time that you can get volts and NO amps.  Well, you got amps, mA which is nothing to sneeze at in my opinion.  Did you also try the ac scale to see what you get?  I believe the jury is still out on this one.  Some books I read say all meters (digital) will read some ac on dc voltage.  Others say no, if it reads ac, there must be ac there.  I did check a AA battery and it showed a reading on the ac scale so, I am not sure about this at all.  We may be seeing pulsed dc, or possibly an ac component.  This is why it is good to have many experiment here to find this stuff out. I look forward to hearing of your experimetal results.

@ Joe:

Which key is the any key?  My keyboard does not appear to have one.  Can I order one from ebay? (just kidding)

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 25, 2007, 07:42:02 AM
I think this lady would be a reliable source to help you find the any key

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: 4Tesla on December 25, 2007, 07:59:47 AM
I have been following the Micro TPU thread, but saw Joe's post and decided to check out this thread.. I see that you have both electrodes in the ground.. what would happen if you have one high, like on top of a flag pole and one in the ground??

4Tesla
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: 4Tesla on December 25, 2007, 08:03:59 AM
@Joe
LOL.. Is that your great grandmother?  ;D

4Tesla
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2007, 08:15:12 AM
@ 4Tesla:

In response to your question, I will quote the legendary Albert Einstein and say "I don't know."  My guess would be nothing but, since I have not tried it, I can't really say.  We have tried "air" tests of the electrodes and got nothing.  But, one in the ground....hmmmmm.

Welcome to this topic.  I believe we are making some progress here. Unlike a lot of the other topics, this is very easy and cheap to replicate to obtain some results.  We need all of the experimenters that we can get.  Yours is a good idea, I am just trying to think of how I can test it.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 25, 2007, 01:44:47 PM
G'day all,

I have just finished my latest essay in the Stubblefield series, this one looks at Helmholtz and the Meyer device in detail. All I have to do now is format my graphics, upload them to my website and post. Sometime tomorrow perhaps, as it is getting very late.

Wishing you all a merry Christmas and all the best for the new year

Hans von Lieven.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Thaelin on December 25, 2007, 04:09:42 PM
   Hey now, you wouldn't want to be talkin about my great grand ma that way. She has a really ugly 12 gauge right next to the sofa. Still meaner than a badger too.

 ;D ;D ;D

thaelin
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on December 25, 2007, 05:34:02 PM
I was just thinking, perhaps the ground is acting as a capacitor, so if we take the energy too fast, we drain that capacitor.  Maybe if we take the energy in pulses, from each module producing current, then pair all those pulses together into one line.  Perhaps the energy will replenish itself fully before the next pulse of energy is taken.  Just an idea, I could be way off.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 25, 2007, 07:15:53 PM
@freezer
The mini tpu would draw from the cap bank at the rate we designed it to .... so thats what it does in a very efficent way. but mind you if our cap bank was even only .22 f worth of capactiance the mini tpu would not drain the cap even close to half from its first needed input so i see this as a logical way to go. 

@jenna
           Good thinking 99 with that multivibrator circuit, bentzer from that thread had wanted to try that but not for our scenario.  So yes try it ! And they are not using an ic 555 or anything like that there are transistors and mofsets tho not real bad stuff to deal with ...   Bill is still using one cell but i guess my point was regardless of our starting tension/voltage the current we can store is as big as the resivor we give it to go into , and a device like that mini tpu or a regenerative boost transformer would probably be ideal to get some usable power... ON a small scale we can build this so its back yard worthy and a portable device to bring wherever device.. PLUG AND PLAY

But on a large scale i do not want to pay niagra mohawk for the rest of my life thats why im saying if this initial prototype goes well over what im guessing will take the better part of the next month or so , i will seriously consider an array of cells and multiple boost transformers connected to a battery bank then inverter.  The caps needed to make that work may have to be home made ones for that kinda storage so im waiting till a bit down the road to get that ambitious. But thats the game plan.

                                                                                                                                            Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 25, 2007, 08:23:08 PM
Stubblefield continued:

G?day all,

Here is my next essay in the Stubblefield series. As you might remember, what started out as a simple project looking into Earth Batteries turned up Stubblefield. It became evident that the Stubblefield device was more than a simple galvanic battery using the earth as an electrolyte.

The main proof of this was that Stubblefield took his energy from a secondary coil, which indicates the presence of an alternating, or pulsed current, which galvanic action cannot generate. He was not the only one that did this. (see earlier posts)

Following that line of research and trying to track down the origin of these oscillations turned up a number of devices where inventors allegedly made use of this phenomenon in different ways, unconnected with earth batteries. There appeared to be a principle at work that so far is unacknowledged by conventional science.

Starting with the assumption that all these people could not have been ?pissing in the wind? as it were, as many of them had demonstrated working devices which science was at a loss to explain, I felt it necessary to re-examine the laws of conservation of energy.

The concept of conservation of energy was first expressed in detail by Hermann von Helmholtz (1821-1894) in his seminal book ?Ueber die Erhaltung der Kraft? (On the Conservation of Force) published in 1847.

Helmholtz? paper rests squarely on the philosophical considerations of Parmenides (ca. 510 ? 450 BC). Parmenides is best known for his famous statement, here in Latin, which is the famous version, ?ex nihilo nihil fit? (out of nothing comes nothing).

Parmenides reasoned further: Since nothing can come from nothing and since there are evidently things in existence, a nothing as such (a perfect vacuum if you wish), cannot exist in nature. Modern quantum mechanics says the same.

The corollary to this is, that if a something cannot come from a nothing, and since a nothing cannot exist, a something cannot turn into a nothing and therefore must be eternally present.

This applies to everything, matter, energy, thought and whatever else. These things must have an eternal existence though they can change form.

This is the philosophical foundation of the conservation of energy laws. Incidentally, this is also the foundation for Socrates? (ca. 470 ? 399 BC) famous dissertation on the immortality of the soul.

But back to Helmholtz.

Helmholtz, by way of a number of examples of real devices, shows that all of the energy in a system can be accounted for.

This is all well known, so why am I bringing this up here?

Because this is not all that Helmholtz said. In seeming contradiction to his entire dissertation he makes, in the same volume, the following statement:

If the natural bodies also exhibit forces (Kraefte) which depend on time and speed or react in directions other than the straight lines joining each pair of acting material points - eg rotary ones ? then systems of such bodies would be possible in which energy (Kraft) is either lost or gained ad infinitum.  (page 19f)


This has been termed by many ?Helmholtz? exception to the rule of the conservation of energy?.

Needless to say that, whilst accepting the body of Helmholtz? work, science refutes this. It is also said that Helmholtz later retracted this statement. This is not true. He merely qualified it in 1881, by saying that this holds only true if Newton?s Third Law of Motion is generally valid.

So what was Helmholtz really saying here?

I do not believe for a minute that Helmholtz meant that there is an exception to the rule of the conservation of energy. His entire dissertation would be pointless otherwise. You do not put out a paper of that magnitude and then invalidate the whole thing with one sentence in the same breath.

Helmholtz was no ordinary academic. He was an experimenter and inventor. He invented amongst other things the Helmholtz resonators, Helmholtz coils and the ophthalmoscope, a device that can look at the retina, which is still used today by doctors worldwide in almost unchanged form. In other words a practical man as well as an intellectual giant.

Because of his outstanding contribution to the sciences the German Kaiser bestowed upon him the inheritable aristocratic title of  ?von?, an honour rarely bestowed for reasons other than political or commercial.

Helmholtz never gave any reasons for this statement; if he did, nothing has been recorded, but he would not have said something like this lightly.

Somewhere in his experiments he must have found evidence of this, though probably he could not gather sufficient proof to demonstrate the principle to his peers.

What he meant, in my view, is, that under certain circumstances when forces meet on specific vectors a gate opens which allows energy of enormous magnitude to escape from, or to, an underlying energy field (the ether if you wish) that has the potential of being exploited. Thus, the conservation of energy laws are still operational, though seemingly violated.

This is the mechanism I am trying to track down. There is evidence that this phenomenon is real. Since we do not understand the precise conditions that must be set up for this to occur, many of the discoveries that have been made in this area are not reproducible and have come about by chance.

I have just come across a device which, if real, might give us an opportunity to investigate this very thing and nail down, at least in part, some of the requirements for successful exploitation.

The device is remarkable for its utter simplicity. It was invented by Roy J. Meyers and patented in 1913. He called it an ?Absorber?. It has an interesting history.

Robert A Nelson writes:

Almost 100 years ago, Meyers served a 3-1/2 year sentence in the Arizona state prison at Florence. Before his incarceration, he had already invented an improved trolley wheel head that prevented it from jumping off the wire. While he was imprisoned, he was inspired to invent a device that would draw electricity from the atmosphere. He conferred with Superintendent Sims and Parole Clerk Sanders, and convinced them to give him the opportunity to develop his idea in a wooden shed on the grounds of the penitentiary. Within a few weeks, using easily available materials (chrome steel magnets and iron wire), he constructed the first crude working model, and used it to spark the gas engines of the prison's pump house. His second model developed 8 volts.

Miss Kate Barnard, who was State Commissioner of Charities and Corrections of Oklahoma, was a guest of Superintendent Sims at the time, and she saw the machine in operation. Miss Barnard was so impressed by it and by Meyers' essential integrity (despite the lapse that had gotten him imprisoned) that she told the story of Roy Meyers when later she appeared before the Arizona legislature to address them concerning prison reform. The legislature and Governor Hunt were convinced to grant Meyers an unsupervised leave of absence for 30 days to travel to Washington DC in order to apply for a patent.

Meyers gave this account of his trip:

"When I arrived in Washington and laid my plans before the patent office experts, they merely smiled and told me that I would have to build a model and demonstrate my claims --- that it seemed strange that I, unknown as I am in the electrical world, should have accomplished the things for which Edison, Tesla and other experts have been striving for years.
"They could not grasp the meaning of my drawings nor the explanation I tried to make to them. There was little time to spare, as I had only 20 days left of my leave, but I set to work in a few days was able to take a crude model around to the patent office to make a demonstration.
"Arriving at the patent office I telephoned to a friend who had been so kind as to introduce me and aid me in reaching the proper officials. The absorber was hoisted on two short poles and made to work. While they were as yet unable to understand the principles involved and hardly willing to believe their eyes, they were forced to admit that I had something new and different, and they told me that there would be no further objection; that I might file my application without further delay.

                                                                                                                                                  (Technology World Magazine, 1912)


I have tracked down the patent and already published it here in the forum in an earlier post. This is my analysis:
Meyers shows two embodiments in his patent. A basic version that is said to work and a more sophisticated version, somewhat different in design. The drawings in the patent are rather crude and untidy and because of this difficult to understand. I have created new graphics that show more clearly what is involved.
This is the bare bones version:

(http://keelytech.com/overunity/myersabsorber.jpg)
 
The diagram is self explanatory. Meyers says nothing about the length of iron wire between the magnets though they do not seem to be critical and can be quite short, say 3 or 4 feet. Alignment with the earth?s magnetic field is essential within a few degrees. It does not have to be perfect. The device is said to work better if somewhat elevated but it is a difference in performance, not workability.
The second drawing is far more intriguing and revealing. Here it is:

(http://keelytech.com/overunity/myersabsorber1.jpg)
 
In this device we see a departure from the original layout. The left hand side shows the ?antenna? in diagrammatic form, the left is the rectifier circuit as schematic.

The ?antenna? can be used on its own or as part of an array. The units (as drawn) can be arranged horizontally, vertically or both. The zinc plates should be folded as shown and arranged with ?their mouths open? towards North and South. It does not matter which way the magnets face, South to magnetic North or South to magnetic South, the effect is the same. The zinc plate circuit must be electrically insulated from the magnet circuit.

The rectifier circuit is a standard bridge rectifier with a difference. In the patent Meyer uses mercury vapour valves but states that other elements can be used. What makes the circuit different are his ?intensifiers?  which consist of bifilar wound coils wound on an insulating coil former or a steel tube. I am not an electronics engineer but I would venture to suggest that the coils, wired as shown, would act as a condenser rather than a coil. If substituting the coils with condensers would give the same effect I cannot say at this stage.

Comments:

The first thing that comes to mind is Meyer?s unorthodox use of magnetism. He insists that his wires are magnetic conductors such as iron wire and then connects them to a point on his magnets where there is no magnetism.
Let us have a closer look at his ?antenna?

(http://keelytech.com/overunity/becomeone.jpg)
 
It is well known that if you join two magnets they become one. Similarly if you cut a magnet in half you will not get one south magnet and one north magnet but two magnets with south and north each. By joining the two magnets with an iron bridge they become one as in the diagram above.

Now let us have a look at the magnetic fields of his two designs:

(http://keelytech.com/overunity/midpoint.jpg)
 
This is where my analysis of Meyer?s device becomes speculative. Meyer is evidently connecting the neutral zones between the poles of his magnets with a magnetic conductor. It is as if he is creating some sort of  ?neutral channel?. He is clearly expecting the flow he is channelling to have at least partly a magnetic nature. This flow would have to be perpendicular to the magnetic flux of the magnets because this is where the channel is.

If Helmholtz is right with his assertion this is exactly the kind of place where the phenomenon he talks about is likely to occur.
We know Helmholtz invented the Helmholtz coil. It looks like this:

(http://keelytech.com/overunity/helmholtzcoils.jpg)
 
There is some odd behaviour associated with this coil arrangement when the coils are moved to a specific distance from each other. Perhaps he discovered something strange there. From a magnetism point of view there is no difference between the coils and Meyer?s magnet. The arrangement is the same.

In the Helmholtz device as in the Meyer device something strange occurs at the midpoint.

There is another well known device where something strange happens at the midpoint between poles.

The Faraday disk.

(http://keelytech.com/overunity/faradaydisk.jpg)

 
The Faraday disk presents a paradox that has never been satisfactorily explained.
The paradox is this:

If you turn the disk as shown at the midpoint of a magnetic field an electric current is generated between the axle and the rim of the disk.

If the disk is stationary and the magnet is revolved around the disk there is no electricity, though the relative movement is the same.

And now it gets really weird. If you revolve the disk with the magnet there is electricity again, even though there is no relative movement between the two components.

The question is, where is the electricity coming from?

When you really look at it Meyer?s device looks very much like a Faraday disk except it is stationary.

Maybe in Meyer?s device the earth does the spinning for you.
 
You see, when you align the device north ? south, as you must, the earth?s spin is perpendicular to the magnetic flux and in line with the ?channel?, just like a Faraday disk spinning with the magnet!


Perhaps, just perhaps, Helmholtz is right and we are on the right track.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 25, 2007, 09:16:11 PM
Hans .... dam you for being so good.. Stellar report absolutely stellar  the end with the paradox is my favorite its physical evidence of vortex theory ...

So your three examples of Faraday's disk show proof of an ether and even more that thats where the energy is released from....

The disk has to spin to move the ether as far as i can tell.  And a magnetic field must be present thus the example with the cb antenna magnet with the soft iron shell. That would be the same as example 3

Im picturing a vortex at a 90 degree angle from the disk in between the magnet poles for the first example ...

The second doesent work because the disk has to do one of two things to open the vortex!

Either move by itself and break an existing flux field thus the one existing between the poles of the permanent magnet shown in example 1 from Hans

 OR

Move with the flux feild of the magnet in synchronous orbit... Shown in example 3 from hans  On this example i guess i would have to say the vortex would be above and below the disc surrounding the perimeter.

Thats my explaination of the paradox if i have solved it merry christmas

Now example 4 for instance im making this one up because i feel it is left out. Just like the disk like in example 3 has the magnet moving around it and it is spinning on its axel but by a motor at a much faster speed and the magnet is kept moving along a circular linear track i think we have antigravity.....

For every action there is an equal and opposite re action wow hans I'm blown away, this really helped me understand some concepts better.  My ideas on where the physical vortex placement may be wrong but i believe that the rest is dead on.
                                                                                                                    Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 25, 2007, 09:37:57 PM
G'day Joe,

Thanks for your kind words.

Did you know that Helmholtz wrote a book called "?ber Wirbelbewegungen (1858)" (about vortex movement) which is the foundation of hydrodynamics and modern vortex theories. Unfortunately I have only found the German original, though translations must exist. I haven't found one yet as I don't know the English title.

As you quite rightly point out, this is exactly where our investigations are leading and in one of my coming essays I will try to get into this subject.

Incidentally, Victor Schauberger's work is based on Helmholtz.

Hans von Lieven

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 25, 2007, 10:41:15 PM
Ok Hans... We need to establish an exact or close time line.. of people an physics direction of their research ether or non ether and people they may have drawn from and discoveries in that timespan  .. This may yield even more from our current findings.. Bill as an investigator, I'm sure you would agree.  Much easier to follow changes and developments with that tool. 

To anyone new to this thread or newer please don't take some of our physics discussions as thinking were not doing the same experiments or changing our direction... We often like to keep this thread open for experiment and  Relative theory in an happy way and it has thus far worked exceptional. 
                                                                                                                                                         Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2007, 10:51:48 PM
vdc record of 2.19 volts!!!  I have tried to post these pics and had written a very long reply that get dummped into the aether when I try to post!! It says," cannot locate overunity.com"  Then I hit my back button and try to post and it says"this is a dublicate post" which it is not because it did not post the first time!!!!  If this picture comes up ok, I will re-write my other posts.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2007, 10:52:14 PM
duplicate post.  5 attempts to get a post on here, Stefan something is going on.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 25, 2007, 10:55:32 PM
The Pic is there. The website is acting fruity .. who knows... awesome bill this is getting better by hr If you cant get your post up you can e-mail it to me at that address i sent you and i will try to post it for you. Merrrrrry Christmas!
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2007, 11:09:06 PM
Merry Christmas all

I am attmpting to re-write this post I have tried many times to get up but keep getting kicked out of the site for some reason.

I wanted to post something special here on Christmas so I took my carbon rod (17" long) and dug it up and cut it in half (2 pieces 8.5" long)  I did this because I could not sink the rod any deeper without risking damage and still had about 6" or rod sticking out.  Now, I have both rods sunk all but 1/2" to tie on to.  I only have one mag. block, looking for another but for today, I used 2 12" long zinc coated spikes.  I created two cells side by side (about three feet apart) alligned on the n/s meridian as before.  The zinc and the carbon are about 5 feet apart on this line.  I tied the two carbons together with a jumper off of each to the plus probe on the meter.  I did the same with the zinc to the neg. probe on the meter.  1.10 vdc!!!!!!  That's all.  But, on each cell alone I get 1.45 vdc and 2.4 mA (Not .24)  So, I am sitting there still not knowing how or why this type of series setup is not working when I get an idea.  The idea was suggested here a few times by several and I also believe Stubblefield mentioned it a time or two.  I took an old 9v battey I had lying around and wired it to my new cell. (the one on the right)  I let it charge for about 45 seconds and then waited.  I took a reading. (the one in the picture in the above post)  Now, don't get too excited just yet.  there is good news here and a little bad.  The level began to fall off (bad news) but appeared to stabilize around 1.83 vdc.  So, now I am thinking about hooking up my car battery charger to the house current and pumping in some 12 vdc and some heavry amps.  Maybe the cell will go up to 9 vdc and then drop down to 3 or 4 and STAY there?  Maybe I will short out my neighborhood?  Oh, the mA actually went down a bit after the 9v battery boost to 2.1 mA.  I have a picture I took of the carbon rod after I cleaned it.  It showed NO sign of deterioration of any kind after being hooked up in the cell for a few months.  This is good I believe.  I will post that pic. in a seperate post as I really don't want to write all of this again for the 3rd time!!!

@ Hans:
Great post man, I will go back and read it carefully, I just wanted to get this news up as fast as possible and have been having a heck of a time with the site for some reason.  Anyone else having trouble?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2007, 11:14:00 PM
Carbon rod showing no visible deteriation after two months in the cell.  This is right before I cut it in half.  I tried posting this several times so hopefully it will show up.

Thanks for the offer Joe, I think it is working now...or...we'll see.

Merry Christmas all!!!  Today, I will drink a toast to all of my fellow experimenters here on overunity.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 26, 2007, 12:06:24 AM
@ bill when was the meter reading from ?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: pese on December 26, 2007, 01:08:28 AM
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/stubblefield.html

pese
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: duff on December 26, 2007, 01:47:50 AM
So, I am sitting there still not knowing how or why this type of series setup is not working when I get an idea. 

Hi Bill,

I did experiments a couple of years ago with electrodes in soil and was frustrated by the fact that I could not get series circuit to work.

What you've got is a common medium so there is no way to setup a series circuit. You have to isolate the medium in one segment from the other.

I also plotted voltage over 500' foot straight line runs sampling voltage every 10 feet with reference to one point and observed reversal in polarities occasionally. If I'm remembering correctly it turned out the clay will cause a reversal of polarity which is interesting.

I mainly used copper clad welding rods and zinc coated rods in the experiments. I also tried 30oz  copper plates 15" x 15".

I think if you run your electrodes east and west you will observe something interesting. I believe that the west electrode will always give you a positive polarity (I may not be remembering the correctly).

I also ran across a fairly extensive study pertaining to mapping polarity of regions of the earth. I'll try to find it and send it your way (not at my computer at the moment).


-Duff
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 26, 2007, 02:09:47 AM
@ pese
   Thanks but we posted that link in the thread earlier somewhere. There is some great info there if anyone hasn't seen it. As well the modulated earth current and using it as a carrier is a great idea were just not there yet . All with good time thanks again and merry christmas
                                                                                                               joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 26, 2007, 02:53:38 AM

What you've got is a common medium so there is no way to setup a series circuit. You have to isolate the medium in one segment from the other.[
-Duff

Sorry Duff,

 but this is not correct. In your typical 12 V car battery you have several galvanic cells in series sitting in a common electrolyte. This is not where your problem is.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on December 26, 2007, 03:01:43 AM
@hans: great work on your last post!  It's nice to see various technologies using similar concepts, and gives hope to me that we will get to the bottom of it.

I had a thought about the faraday disk - I think the disc itself is made of copper.  When there is a changing magnetic field then a current is generated.  By rotating the disc there is a changing magnetic field because the outer rim is spinning faster than the inner rim and the whole thing is rotating so even though there would probably be no torque we'd still get current.  I remember reading that the faraday disc gave huge amounts of current and about .6 volts (actually, that's the N machine, but isn't the concept similar?)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 26, 2007, 03:05:33 AM
@ Joe:

The high meter reading (2.19vdc) was taken just after I charged the right cell with the 9 volt battery.  I disonnected the battery and then took that reading.  Do you think the 12 volt side of the car battery charger is worth a try?  I.m sure I'll be back to better regular reading once I get another magnesium block.

@Duff:

Thanks for the info.  I look forward to getting the other information as well.

@Hans:

That is an excellent point about the 12 volt car battery.  I know you have mentioned that before.  So, knowing you are correct on that, can you think of any reason that I can't get this series setup to work over here?  I am simply tieing the two plus carbon rods together and then the two minus zinc spikes together and the meter reading is LESS than either cell alone. I am taking the reading from a lead off of each + and minus side after they are connected together.  I am totally stumped by this.  It should be reading in the 3 volt range with the two cells.  I am still not done reading your post but I am amazed on what I have read thus far.  Excellent research!

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 26, 2007, 03:26:51 AM
@ Bill,

if you connect the carbons and the zincs together respectively you are setting them up in Parallel, not in Series. Series would be copper to zinc to copper to zinc. Furthermore I think you should be measuring your output differently.

If you have, as is likely, an AC component in your flow the meter would not give you an accurate reading. I suggest using a bridge rectifier between your earth battery and the meter, to make sure you get all DC. You only need 4 silicon diodes at around 10 cents each and you are in business. Suitable circuit diagram is on the bottom of this page.

@ akash

Bruce de Palma had been playing around with the Faraday disk for some time. It was him that called it the N-Machine. It never went anywhere.

I do not believe the current scientific theories (there are two main ones) to be correct. There is something else in play here which I am trying to nail down.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 26, 2007, 03:34:06 AM
@bill mabey each cell meaning pair + - needs a cap so you would retain the 1.45 on each cap and the we could discharge them how ever.. theres a few ways anyways hans  has a good idea about the bridge rectifier but i still think the resivor so to say the cap should be connected to the leads and then from that cap into the the retifier.  Now hans correct me if im wrong but bill should probably try a non polarized cap .  Not sure here but will find out..
                                                                                       Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 26, 2007, 03:44:53 AM
@ Hans:

Thanks for the diagram!

First, I want to say that I finally read your latest installment post.  I wanted to give it the time your effort to write deserves.  That is mind blowing! All different devices yet exploiting the same phenomenon.  I agree with your idea that the rotation of the earth might be where the required movement is coming from.  Makes perfect sense to me.  Thank you for your research and hard work.  I know we are all benefiting from it immensely.

Now, about my "series" connections.  You are correct of course but I don't see a way to connect it any other way.  what I mean is if I  go from carbon (+) to zinc (-) I have a dead short.  that is what I tried a while back.  I go from carbon on one cell to the zinc on the other and it does not know it is two cells and it is like hooking up a wire from the + on your car battery to the -, not good.  Maybe I am missing something basic and simple here (probably) but that is why I tried to just tie all the plus and all the minus electrodes together which is, of course (now that you pointed it out) a parallel connection.  Any thoughts on how to connect the + of one cell to the - of the other without a short?  Thank you.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: duff on December 26, 2007, 03:45:12 AM

What you've got is a common medium so there is no way to setup a series circuit. You have to isolate the medium in one segment from the other.[
-Duff

Sorry Duff,

 but this is not correct. In your typical 12 V car battery you have several galvanic cells in series sitting in a common electrolyte. This is not where your problem is.

Hans von Lieven

Are you sure about that Hans? -

You pop the cap on a cell and check the fluid level or measure density level with a hydrometer  of individual cells....


-Duff
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 26, 2007, 03:45:36 AM
G'day Joe,

Perhaps a bit premature thinking about caps. We need to establish first if there is an AC component. If there is, the cap is useless.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on December 26, 2007, 03:47:01 AM
another cajun question, a car battery has 6 cells in series to give 12 volts,but when you check the level of water in the battery it can be lower in one cell than it's neighbor. wouldn't this say that it's not a common electrolite?
sid
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on December 26, 2007, 04:00:15 AM
I was showing everyone at the Christmas get together how a earth battery works and got a reading of 1.2 volts at 1 amp on one of hte test sites. This was about 100 feet from a power line in my inlaws front yard, really wet ground.
If the any button works there should be a picture of my meter there showing the position for reading amps? as well as showing position for reading DC volts.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 26, 2007, 04:00:31 AM

Are you sure about that Hans? -

You pop the cap on a cell and check the fluid level or measure density level with a hydrometer  of individual cells....

-Duff

The reason why you top up each cell as it were is that the separators are microporous and it would take a long time for the fluid to fill the entire battery if you only topped up one. The reason for the porous separators is  to stop particles building up in one section of the battery and shorting it. The electrolyte is common to all.

(http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/Eurobat.jpg)

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 26, 2007, 04:01:57 AM
@ Bill

Nice experiments!  Hans is correct about wiring in series.  I have read the entire thread, start to finish, and my number one question was why no one has attempted to wire in series for more voltage and parallel for more amperage...after all, the ground it the limit!   ;D  I also think that anyone testing this should indeed use a full bridge rectifier to measure the output.

Now, if it does not allow you to wire in series or parallel, as Duff suggested in his last post, It would make me think "ocean".  For example, an ocean battery with say zinc and the other electrode of carbon, will also give a small voltage.  But if you put another one next to it and attempt to wire in series it will not work.  Now, if you take an egg carton, place small holes into each of the egg holders, add a small sponge and place each electrode in it's own cell, then it will work just fine.  The whole point is there still may need to be designed a way to individualize each earth cell.

Also, another thought I have, is after looking at the patents through the thread, the ones that actually seemed to draw real power from the earth all seemed to do so through induction.  Perhaps wrapping a coil or even ferrite or iron core, and tapping off of that with a secondary and see if the output is any different, would be a useful experiment.

Anywho, I am on holiday with the family until after the first of the year.  The first thing that I will do when I return home, is to make my micro TPU self run forever, using a ground battery.  It has me very excited.  I am waiting on Litz wire to wind a SM TPU, and this will keep me occupied until it's arrival. 

Has anyone tried simple wire, instead of rods?  If it is a function of surface area, which still needs to be proved IMHO by more experiments, then using bundled copper wire and bundled carbon or zinc would would give you MUCH greater surface area, than one large piece.  Again, here, think of bubbles.  One large bubble verses five small bubbles that fit inside the big bubble, which has the greater surface area?  The small bubbles.  If you used a bundle of copper wire, tied together and placed into the hole the surface would be larger.  Of course, if you can find a way to wire in series or parallel, or both, that is the way to go.  If it does not allow you to, find the distance you would have to go to do so.  That too would be interesting.

P.S.  If it is a function of surface area and you prove this beyond doubt, I would suggest using nano particles.  These come in zinc or nickel and the company can bake it onto metal objects, pipes, plates, etc.  Anywho, these can give you the surface area of several hundred yards on one square foot of material.  Just a thought towards the future.  Your carbon rod should already have incredible surface area, by its very nature.  You may want to take a gander at a little piece under a microscope, if you have one and see what its surface looks like.

Well, Merry Christmas, and thanks localjoe for the idea.  I am itching to return home and hook this to my oscillator!    ;)

Keep experimenting!

Bruce 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on December 26, 2007, 04:03:45 AM
darn any button!
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 26, 2007, 04:15:09 AM
Sid10,

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on December 26, 2007, 04:16:20 AM
maybe i should read to the bottom of the page before i try to correct someone who's been at this probably much much longer than me. I'm still trying to figure out how to read this meter.
I did get a chance to read Stubblefield's patent today and it sent my mind reeling.
Please forgive me if I am just repeating what others have already said, if you could get a steady 1.5 volts at 1 amp out of his electrical battery and feed it to the pulse timer, that was just posted, then feed the output from the timer to a bank of capacitors and use the capacitors to run some super efficient led type home lighting system, or charge a bank of deep cycle batteries that would feed a inverter....
does any of this make sense? or am I wayyy off base?
Sid
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on December 26, 2007, 04:19:23 AM
whadya no any button worked, That you need to use a fiel format as small as possible to prevent time outs didn't occure to until my 11 yeas old told me so.
Kids what will they come up with next
Sid
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on December 26, 2007, 04:26:15 AM
someone asked if a led can be photovoltaic the answer is yes if its green. I came across a site that sells sun tracking devices for large PV arrays and it was using a set of three green LEDs as a means of turning the tracking motor on and off.
Humm spell check button wonder what that one does?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: duff on December 26, 2007, 04:28:58 AM
@Hans


Ok - you are correct. I arrived at an incorrect conclusion...

Perhaps I should have said that I was never able to accomplish was a series circuit using rods in a common medium.


-Duff
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 26, 2007, 04:30:48 AM
(snip)

Now, about my "series" connections.  You are correct of course but I don't see a way to connect it any other way.  what I mean is if I  go from carbon (+) to zinc (-) I have a dead short.  that is what I tried a while back.  I go from carbon on one cell to the zinc on the other and it does not know it is two cells and it is like hooking up a wire from the + on your car battery to the -, not good.  Maybe I am missing something basic and simple here (probably) but that is why I tried to just tie all the plus and all the minus electrodes together which is, of course (now that you pointed it out) a parallel connection.  Any thoughts on how to connect the + of one cell to the - of the other without a short?  Thank you.

Bill

@ Bill

If you take a hypothetical, of two batteries and connect a lead from the positive of one and the negative of the other, and measure output there, or tie them together, it will alway look like a short, until you measure the output from the negative of the one the the positive of the other. 

It may indeed not work as I posted earlier, but it must be tried.  Just  connect carbon to zinc and then measure the output  of the other carbon and zinc and see if you have garnered more voltage.  You also should attempt an amperage reading while you had them wired in parallel and see if it was increased.

Christmas Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 26, 2007, 05:40:16 AM
Yikes! three pages in one day as I looked away!  where to begin?
First Thank you Hans for a superb article.

I took my wired copper pipes and wired zinc nail outside in the snow flurries today. In a very brief amount of time I checked a few things and then I had to leave for the day, which is why this post comes afterr all those very useful ideas discussed today.

Results report follows:
I have 2 copper pipes and 1 zinc coated spike to which I soldered one copper wire each.
I arranged these elements together to see if I could see any voltage above the zero that I got 6 weeks ago (and again more recently) when I tried to put them together in 'series ' style.

So, the first was another  control that I get about o.9v with the cu - zn cell.

Then I put 2 cu pipes with their wires next to the cu pipe that is still in the ground (that's 3 cu pipes connected) and then put the zinc with its soldered wire up against the last cu pipe and I got 0.45v. WHAT? Is that what one leg of a parallel circuit shows? I really want to repeat this with photos. It started to rain so I stopped. I sure hope the sky lets up a bit tomorrow. I am not satisfied that I have done justice to this since I ran it only once before it rained.

I will also repeat something else, ?I think ? I had cu - zn - cu and got a lot of fluctuations from 0.45v to zero and back up to 0.25v -- very active.

Last night and today, I was thinking that if I could set up a cap for each cell and then have the caps somehow join their charges into a single cell, or an array of some kind,  it might get us somewhere. (And I come to find out you have been talking about this all day)  I find this whole group is thinking together.  And THAT is how we will succeed!!!

I also think we should do some coils along with this. Hans has given us a lot to work with and if there is a tesla coil person (was that you Arctic_Knight ) it would be great. It won't be straight up I suspect, but some tesla coil experience in here might help.

I don't know that I ever used a rectifier but it should be easy enough to find out how. It may indeed give some extra voltage.

I also re-read Tom Bearden's treatice about how to get charge from the source and then use the charge without depleting the source. It is so simple and brilliant. In it he makes the point that the amperage doesn't "happen" until there is a way for it to move in a direction. We need only look for voltage in our meters and the amperage will be something we can get from it by running a circuit properly from it.

looking forward to more,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: duff on December 26, 2007, 06:12:03 AM

@Duff:

Thanks for the info.  I look forward to getting the other information as well.


Bill,

I could not find the exact document I was thinking of but here something you might find interesting.

Patent 3,361,957
Telluric current response device having spaced conductors for positioning adjacent the earth's surface.


-Duff
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 26, 2007, 06:26:28 AM
Wow! So many great posts here on Christmans day.  What a dedicated group of experimenters and researchers we have here.

@ Bruce:

I'm glad you joined us.  I have been following your work on the micro tpu topic with much interest.  Very nice work over there. I will follow your suggestion and see what happens.  It is an easy experiment to do.  I will also check the amps reading in para. also.  I just thought that if I connect + to the - it would short the cell and I would get nothing.  I beleive I attempted this a while back but, now that I have 2 exactly the same cells to work with (same materials and same surface area on same allignment) it might turn out differently.  What I was picturing in my mind was like taking two car batteries and  running a lead from + to _ on each and then measuring volts but, if I did that the wire would melt.  In my scenerio I guess one would go from + on one bat. to - on the other and visa versa. That works as this is how they run golf carts on multiple batteries in series, right?  But, no way to know without trying and I will do so.  Your tpu knowledge will come in handy for us here before it's over I'm sure.

@sid10:

Nice photo of the meter.  That is the setting I used (mA) when I measured my amps and I believe my figure of 2.5 (or thereabouts) was in milliamps. I don't recall the figure you had, I think it was like .9 amps?  This, on this scale would be .9 milliamps.  You electrical guys can correct me if I am wrong about this.  Otherwise this would mean I am getting 2.5 amps which I do not believe to be true.  Your point about leds being photovoltaic is correct. I tested a few of my red and blue ones and got several millivolts by just using a maglight flashlight shinning on it.  Amazing little things these leds.  you may be right about the green maybe a better yeild.  I don't have any of those and could not try it.

@ Jeanna:

Wow, you are doing a lot of work out there!!!  According to the galvanic chart I have here, which was posted way, way back, you will probably get .9 vdc from these materials.  I am not saying that this is galvanic, or just galvanic at all.  I am doing a bit better than what the chart shows but it is a good base reference.  So maybe you will get about 1.1 or so.  But, if you are able to hook into series, then, who knows????  The fluctuations you mentioned interest me.  This might be exactly what Hans is speaking of when telling us to measure using the rectifier bridge. (Gee, a year ago, if you told me I would be typing the words rectifier bridge, I would have thought you were crazy as I didn't even know what one was)  Could it be that my led circuit with the cap is almost acting like a rectifier of some sort?  You know, a diode and a cap.?  I only have one cap. but am getting more in the near future. (hopefully)  I also think that checking for ac using Hans's idea of the audio amp. is a good one to really see if any volts are on the secondary.  If so, ac present.  I wish I had more money for these experiments.

I hope everyone continues to come up with these great ideas.  The more experimenters we have, the better we can do.  I am seeing some confusing things out in my little garden, but it is trying to tell me something.  Once I understand what is really going on, there is no telling what might happen.  More experimentation to come.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 26, 2007, 07:14:20 AM
@ All

I am sure that you all have seen this already, but I decided to highlight the parts I feel are most relevant for experimenters.  No sense in reinventing the wheel.

From Wiki:
"To obtain the natural electricity, experimenters would thrust two metal plates into the ground at a certain distance from each other in the direction of a magnetic meridian, or astronomical meridian. The stronger currents flow from south to north. This phenomenon possesses a considerable uniformity of current strength and voltage. As the Earth currents flow from south to north, electrodes are positioned, beginning in the south and ending in the north, to increase the voltage at as large a distance as possible. In many early implementations, the cost was prohibitive because of an over-reliance on extreme spacing between electrodes.

It has been found that all the common metals behave relatively similarly. The two spaced electrodes, having a load in an external circuit connected between them, are disposed in an electrical medium, and energy is imparted to the medium in such manner that "free electrons" in the medium are excited. The free electrons then flow into one electrode to a greater degree than in the other electrode, thereby causing electric current to flow in the external circuit through the load. The current flows from that plate whose position in the electropotential series is near the negative end (such as palladium). The current produced is highest when the two metals are most widely separated from each other in the electropotential series, and when the material nearer the positive end is to the north, while that at the negative end is towards the south. The plates, one copper and another iron or carbon, are connected above ground by means of a wire with as little resistance as possible. In such an arrangement, the electrodes are not appreciably chemically corroded, even when they are in earth saturated with water, and are connected together by a wire for a long time.

It had been found that to strengthen the current, it was most advantageous to drive the northerly electropositive electrode deeper into the medium than the southerly electrode. The greatest currents and voltages were obtained when the difference in depth was such that a line joining the two electrodes was in the direction of the magnetic dip, or magnetic inclination. When the previous methods were combined, the current was tapped and utilized in any well-known manner.

In some cases, a pair of plates with differing electrical properties, and with suitable protective coatings, were buried below the ground. A protective or other coating covered each entire plate. A copper plate could be coated with powered coke, a processed carbonaceous material. To a zinc plate, a layer of felt could be applied. To use the natural electricity, earth batteries fed electromagnets, the load, that were part of a motor mechanism."

I learned a bunch from those few paragraphs and think to implement this as soon as I return home.  Goal:  Forever running micro tpu.

Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Reisender on December 26, 2007, 07:14:36 AM
.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 26, 2007, 07:59:13 AM
@ Bruce:

Yes, I believe we have seen that before, I know I have because, except for using the plates, that is exactly what I am doing. (as far as I know) + to polar north, - to polar south.  The greatest potential is seen when moving the electrodes apart, to a point, at least for me. I have a very small area to work with here at my little apartment. Possibly, if I moved them 200 feet away it might improve yet again and to a higher degree.  I have no way to know or find out.  I did some testing involving placing the north elecrrode in deeper than the south and did see some improvement, but not a lot.  My best is with the carbon rod (now 8.5 inches long) and the magnesium block (only three inches long) I want to get another mag. block to put into the series tests but for now, I am using 2 zinc coated spikes.  They are actually deeper than the carbon now, but I had my meter on them when pushing them in and it got better the deeper I went so I kept going.

@ Hans:

A thought just occured to me about Stubblefield.  After reading your research post I began to think about a picture I saw of some of Stubblefields earth batteries all laying in a barrel or bucket.  It seems obvious to me that he was using them in series to get useful electricity as they appeared to be wired together.  So, what if there turns out to be no ac component or even pulsed dc and his "coil" arrangements are nothing more than an efficient "antenna" to receive the telluric currents?  As Bruce posted, the way to get more surface area easily is to use coils.  A ten turn coil has probably more surface area than an eight foot long piece of metal.  What do you think?  I know he used two different types of metal in his arrangement and he did that for a reason as well. I don't know why at this point.

@ Duff:

Thanks for the patent info.  I will look at it and see what it is.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 26, 2007, 08:19:20 AM
@ Duff:

That patent info is great stuff!!!!  The first part of the device just looks like a chain-link fence though, ha ha.  The one thing at the begining of the patent wording struck me. The telluric currents have diurnal characteristics and move up vertically from the ground toward the sun.  I had to look up diurnal and got three different but similar meanings all having to do with the center of the earth and the sun. IF this is true, then my poles should be horizontal not vertical and we should probably be using plates not rods. (harder to obtain)  How does this guy "know" this I wonder? Has this been proven do you think?  Does anyone here know about this?  Thanks again for the info.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 26, 2007, 09:54:34 AM
G'day Gentlemen,

I am glad you like my essay, there will be a few more if you wish.

I have noticed that all of you are using digital multimeters. They are terrific, I own one myself, but they are not very well suited for the kind of work you are doing. For what you are trying to find out you absolutely need an analogue meter. It's the next best thing to an oscilloscope.

Let me explain.

A digital multimeter takes a sample of, say a voltage, every second and displays the result. The result is very accurate, and that is where those meters shine. The reason why the sampling rate is so slow is that the display would be unreadable if there were any fluctuations in say the voltage. The figures just would whizz up and down with the voltage and you could not read the numbers.

In an analogue meter the needle moves with the current in real time. This gives you the opportunity to observe fluctuations and trends. The values are not as accurate as in a digital meter since you have only two inches or three of scale to work with, therefore the resolution is poorer. But for observing movement in the current there is nothing like it. In the old days we had a lot of nicknames for certain needle phenomena. There was the tick, the fall, the long fall, the hiccup, the floating needle and so forth. They all meant something.

I would strongly suggest you guys go out there and get one of those things. It does not have to be an expensive one since all you want to do with it is to observe trends. For precise measurements you have your digital one.

You should be able to find something reasonable for about twenty bucks or so. I guarantee you will never regret it.

Have fun

Hans von Lieven
Title: More Earth battery expermients
Post by: pese on December 26, 2007, 12:25:13 PM
http://www.icehouse.net/john34/stubblefield.html

on end of this paper.

Pese



P.S.
i am very sceptic about this)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 26, 2007, 03:44:11 PM
(snip)
It had been found that to strengthen the current, it was most advantageous to drive the northerly electropositive electrode deeper into the medium than the southerly electrode. The greatest currents and voltages were obtained when the difference in depth was such that a line joining the two electrodes was in the direction of the magnetic dip, or magnetic inclination. When the previous methods were combined, the current was tapped and utilized in any well-known manner.
(snip)


Hello all,

Magnetic Inclination:
What is Inclination (I)?

At a given location, the Inclination is the angle between the magnetic field vector and the horizontal plane (the plane is tangent to the surface of the Earth at that point). The inclination is positive when the magnetic field points downward into the earth and negative when it points upward.

Online calculator to determine true North and South for your location.  Just enter your zip code:

DECLINATION CALCULATOR AND INCLINATION CALCULATOR:
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/IGRFWMM.jsp

What is Declination (D)?

Declination is the angle of difference between true North and magnetic North. For instance, if the declination at a certain point were 10? W, then a compass at that location pointing north (magnetic) would actually align 10? W of true North. True North would be 10? E relative to the magnetic North direction given by the compass. Declination varies with location and slowly changes in time.

Note:  Inclination is the angle you want between the bottom of your North electrode and the bottom of your South electrode.

Example:  For me, my declination is 3 degrees East and my inclination is 61 degrees.  So, to start I want to find my true north, by offsetting my compass by 3 degrees West and there it will be. 

I want to set the angle between my bottom electrodes at a 61 degree angle.  I hope that helps!   ;)

Holiday Cheers,
Bruce

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 26, 2007, 04:14:44 PM
Bruce,

The calculator is broken?

I had true north.  If I had the rest (angles), I can get the polls the lengths I need before I drive them in.  Will try it again.  I would love to see current over voltage.  But so far no current on the analog meter..

I was shocked the iron and copper worked best voltage wise.

Thanks!  It works now!  ;)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 26, 2007, 06:01:24 PM
@ All:

In case some of you newer fellows have not read all of the previous posts here, of which there are many I know, my best readings are 1.82vdc and 2.5 milliamps. My total highest reading was 2.19 vdc but that was after I charged the cell from a 9 volt battery for about 40 seconds.  I believe Hans is right about these digital meters.  I have an old analog meter in my electronics toolbox that I used years ago.  I will dig that out and re-check some things later today if I get a chance.  Possibly, it will not read any milliamps at all...we will see.

@ Bruce:

My angle is 3 degrees (declination) here in Kentucky, USA and my angle on the bottom of the electrodes is about 60 degreees, roughly speaking.  What I did in the begining as per Localjoe's suggestion was to place an electrode in the ground and then placed my meter probe on it and stabbed around in the ground with the other probe on angles slightly off of magnetic north and, low and behold, my best reading with the meter was 3 degrees.  I sank my other electrode along this line, but farther away which also helped. The meter probes only have a limited reach as we all know, but once I established the line, I just stayed aligned with it only at a greater distance.  Also, from what I have read, I should not be able to get more than 1.5 vdc if just pure galvanic action here.  Plus, check out my picture posted earlier of the carbon rod after being burried in the earth cell for over two months.  No sign of destruction as of yet.  Could there be microscopic destruction?  Sure, but I don't have a microscope to check this.  I'll bet if I had it immersed in salt water for that time period with another dissimilar metal, there would be obvious damage.

My list of tests to perform is growing each day.  I will try to get out there and knock some of these out and report back.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 26, 2007, 08:30:30 PM
G'day Bill,

You should be able to read mA on your meter.

Years ago I did some work in a factory that built these things. Always curious, I had a good look at what they were doing and asked some questions. From memory they were using meter movements that had a full scale deflection of 100 mA. I was told that this was the type of movement most manufacturers used in their multimeters.

So you should be right.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 26, 2007, 10:19:47 PM
G'day Gentlemen,

Have a look at this patent. It is a patent for an orgone, motor granted in 2006.

The fascinating thing is the perpendicular arrangement of the coils. The sort of thing I have been discussing lately. I have included one of the drawings from the patent to give you an idea what I am on about.

The plot thickens.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 26, 2007, 10:19:52 PM
I finally purchased some aligator clips on long leads.

I got a solid steady voltage from my set up which is now 3 copper pipes connected to 2 zinc things. Kinda flaky maybe, but it was not any more than just one but for the first time the voltage didn't drop to zero for some reason?? I clipped the graphite pencil to the mag block and got a usual 1.09v.

Bill, did you get a multiplication from multiple pieces of graphite without the charge? I think not. But you also did not get zero .

I am frustrated that I don't have enough for a led. (I must live in a low conduction area or something) so, I found a little piezo buzzer. I was able to hear the most remote click when connected between the copper and zinc.

Ahh - something!

But not much. I don't want to waste this sunny day but I think I will read the patents.

jeanna

Oh and I moved the mag block around. It didn't make much difference but it was its highest in the East - west as well as the north - south directions. Interesting?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 26, 2007, 11:01:22 PM
double zip on these last 2 experiments.

I don't have red enamel to paint on my pipes, so, for now, I wrapped the pipes and zinc in plastic bags and I got zero volts. Now, there was no earth inside the pipes and the zinc was not inside the pipes, just 4 inches apart but in series. == zero just like inside the house.

then with no plastic bags (just to be sure) just a series of cu zn cu zn and zero v

Thing is it isn't a short I don't think. a short on my meter shows an "I" for infinity over on the far left of the screen.

I am going to have to buy a graphite rod, I guess. I want to find some coal. maybe charcoal will work...

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 26, 2007, 11:16:21 PM
Just a thought on your experiments.

How about using your water pipes as one of the terminals. There are many miles of steel pipe buried in the ground that are electrically connected to your pipe system in the house.

You would not be able to connect your batteries in series, as one side of the circuit uses a common terminal, but a parallel arrangement could work.

As I said, just a thought.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 27, 2007, 12:16:17 AM
@ Hans:

I just popped in for a minute and read your last post.  Do you mean to say to use the miles and miles of underground pipe already there to "soak" up this telluric current on one side of the battery????  That is an excellent idea!!!!!  I guess we would have to figure out if it was + or - but that would depend on the materials we are using on the other electrode.  My carbon rod would still be + I am guessing.  One quick thought, what about all of the ac being dumped into the ground via the water pipes in residential houses?  I wonder what we will see?  I am going to have to make up a pretty long lead to reach from my plumbing to test but...wow. Great idea.  I think we all owe you a beer for this one.

@ mramos:

No, I don't think anyone has hit higher than 2.5 mA SO FAR.  Ha ha, we are just getting started.  And, that is IF the digital meters are reading it correctly.  I am going to check with the analog meter but it was too dark when I got in to do it today.  I can already light 2 leds...that's something anyway isn't it?  If Stubblefield did it, I believe we can do it.  I hope your equipment is ok, sand can be a real pain sometimes.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on December 27, 2007, 02:38:18 AM
@jeanna:  Coal won't work.  I tried it, but what does work and gives some interesting results is activated carbon (used in filters, etc).  It has a huge surface area like a carbon rod, but it comes in powdered or granular form.  I sprinked some on the earth and stuck my probe in it, it did give me a voltage when measuring against a copper rod.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 04:20:59 AM
We most certainly would like to see your pics mramos so we can compare to our setups. Who said we wouldn't want to see them? Any insight or help is always welcome so if you have a chance post your pics and setup. Thanks
                                                                                                  Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: cub3 on December 27, 2007, 05:07:48 AM
G'day Ladies & gentlemen,
                                          I came across this thread prior to Christmas and it has taken some time to read in it's interity. The numerous links and downloads did not help, especially when one only has dial up  :-[
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 05:32:21 AM
@Cub... how would you like me to respond to that?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 27, 2007, 05:40:06 AM
mramos:

I know the power is low, thus far.  Thanks for the info on the different styles of meters being the same.  That is information we did not have to this point.  My led, single is as bright or possibly more bright than one of those keychain led lights.  Now, with 2 leds, no, not as bright but, the funny thing is that I can short the cap (discharge) and light 1 or 2 leds and the cap charges, or seems to and lights the leds at the same time.  After running them a while, I can remove the circuit and carry it into the house and it will still light 1 led very bright (in my opinion) for about 45 minutes off of the cap. alone.  It will continue to light for over an hour but, very dim at this point.  That is using a small supercap that is the size of a hearing aid battery.  I am amazed at this.  I am also amazed that you can pump volts into the ground with a battery and, for a while anyway, continue to get a much higher voltage reading off the cell/s.  I was telling a friend of mine about this experiment, which I saw as a failure, and he, who had worked for 20 years at IBM repairing computers and office equipment, said that the ground should never hold any energy like that.  So, I may continue with my attempt to dump amps as well as volts into the cell using my car battery charger.  He said the cell was working like a capacitor and this should not be at all. (my cap circuit was not involved in this experiment)  He thinks this is more interesting than lighting a few leds for a while.  What do you think?  and yes, please post any and all of your information here.  You are working in sandy soil which might mean what?  Who knows.  the pyramid people are using sand in their cells along with graphite/carbon to produce free electricity.  And the angles that Bruce posted, I have already been using, since I read about it in the begining of this topic.  I can't really say if it helped as I started out doing it that way.  I did really enjoy the NOAH link he posted, that is a great tool. My personal opinion is that we all need to max out the volts and the amps the best we can and then, we can move on to coils, tpus, and who knows what else? I respect ANYONE who is out there trying stuff.  I think we all do. We need all the help we can get and I would value your input on this project as I know others would as well.  Did you get a chance to read any of the Stubblefield stuff from way back?  There were a few references to how he was operating numerous arc lights, a telephone system and heating his house all from earth batteries.  Is this fantasy or bad history?  Possibly...who knows.  I just like it because it's easy/cheap to replicate...fairly easy to get better results by tweaking, and I don't think anyone knows were this might end up.  Have you tried the tree experiment yet?  If you have a decent sized tree, you should be able to get about 1.25 vdc from that to a ground.  Come to think of it, I don't believe I ever checked the amps on that one myself.  OK, another item on my list.

My point of the original post I made to you was that I feel it is too early to draw any conclusions as of yet.  Jeanna is out there experimenting her butt off in the cold.  Who knows what she will discover.  Anyway, I hope to see your pictures and results of your tests.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 27, 2007, 06:02:07 AM
welcome cub. Are you joining us in this grounding adventure?

 I agree with joe
Quote
We most certainly would like to see your pics mramos

Thanks for the confidence, Bill, I was feeling discouraged today.

I'm not sure if I want to buy red laquer and paint those pipes. especially if mramos did it just right and got nothing. I am thinking hard about caps in parallel and series and adding inductors to the trip.

 I put together a circuit like Bill's this evening. It is amazing how well it works. No, I don't get the time Bill gets but there is no resistor on this setup I'm trying just a green led and 3 volts and that double supercap. I ordered a single one and I will see if that works when it gets here. Somewhere I think there is a way to make a loop of some sort that circles around and gets bigger. It can be fed each time by the earth battery and just grow steadily. It's what my mind is doing.

I will look away for a while (read a book about something else) sometimes that works best.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 27, 2007, 06:43:37 AM
@ Bill

You need not worry about this being galvanic reaction causing the voltage.  This is well known in science as someone mentioned earlier, called Telluric Currents.  This is used to locate minerals, leaks in pipes, etc.  Also, in Texas, it has in the past caused problems with some of our dairy cows.  Them poor moo moo's walking around with voltage at their hoofs.   ;D  Besides, we could increase the power and sell the earth batteries as hillbilly fishing aids.  Just add leads to the pond!  LOL 

In all seriousness, with the bit of reading time I have squeezed in, late at night, it would seem that there are also free electrons in the ground.  This I think is good news.  I have considered your test with the little battery, and it caused the received voltage to increase after the battery was removed.  I will tell you what I am thinking, and I can hear a few groans now,  ;) I am thinking Electron tube.  This is what I mean by that:

To put it very simply, electrons are released by the heater.  They are repelled by a negative plate.  But then potential is added to the positive side, and all of those electrons come running over to the positive plate.  The greater the potential, the greater the flow of electrons.

If in the ground, (and I have no way to test any of this until I arrive back home in January) we set our Southern electrode for the negative and travel a distance (I own a farm and have a lot of room) and place our positive electrode in the North.  We then complete the circuit with resistor, load, whatever and like a tube, place a high voltage potential on the positive plate, perhaps from stored current in a cap, through a circuit, and it releases this pulse of high voltage on the positive plate.  This higher potential will attract free electrons in the ground and increase the overall power.  Perhaps this is the part of Stubblefield's patent, not there.  Add a high potential to them coils and perhaps all kinds of power starts increasing in flow.  It also sounds like some of the reports I have read on the incremental increase of power in his system.

But before we think that big, we need to test this theory.  Apply a higher voltage, low current to the positive electrode for a short time and see if the overall power increases as I think it should.  If it does, then for how long.  Then we configure a circuit to pulse HV from a cap that has stored our captured ground current.  And use it to multiply power.  This is my thoughts and a path that needs to be tested.

Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: cub3 on December 27, 2007, 07:09:54 AM
My Apologies to all this is what should have come through.

G'day Ladies & gentlemen,
                                          I, came across this thread, prior to Christmas and it has taken some time to read it in it's entirety. The numerous links and downloads did not help, especially when one only has to use dial up  :-[

This thread appears to the most stable with input and respect from members, compared to some of the other threads and discussion topics that I have read.

Today, unfortunately I sensed some doubt. This should not be so. Collectively, you all have to put a lot of thought into this project.

Owing to my dial up connection, I have been unable to read and hence understand any of the patents, let alone enjoy many of the video's. Rather, at present my limited knowledge relies upon the post's on this thread.

OK What was the potential of the EARTH/AETHER in the past?

Why, should it be any different today, than in the past?  IT has been given (the earth) more over the years. What Do we know now? Whom have we followed! WHY? How do we learn again. What are we doing different!! ??

What, do we no longer know, recognise or see. Surely, we must come back to when their was an empathy with this planet.

There was a time where wo/man kind lived a different life, where we were not so pressured by every day hassles, had time to see and observe the world around us To feel, what we were and why existed.

It is our collective loss, it is not only Science, Government but something more!! Perhaps, a connection with this Planet we call home, how we view it, sense it, feel it, absorb it, are to be one with it, call it home, A sense of belonging and simpatico, we must learn to be part of this planet part of it and not merely walk upon it.

Apologies I digress, and indeed will again our mindset compared to those that we are endeavouring to at present to replicate or see from their point of view ad indeed science of the time. Sit back gentle folk, gather up your thoughts and battle on for their are many perturbations to yet be met and overcome. There was an old saying loose yourself before you find youreself.

In parting, for those that are interested in magnesium, if you have access to an Automotive wrecking yard, in the late 60's to late 70's a lot off high quality after market wheel rims were magnesium, if vehicle wrecked with a damaged rim yours for nix, a lot of Mag. for very little.

Unfortunately life very hard at present, I wish you all the very best and will keep an eye on you. :-*

Keep on Keeping on.

Den.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 27, 2007, 09:18:10 AM
I came up with this design thinking it may work on towers or above ground, maybe it will for what you all are doing here. Just turn them upside down and bury half of them.



Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 27, 2007, 05:43:58 PM
G'day nightlife,

could you please tell us: What is the rationale behind your "frequency attraction device"?

Why is it supposed to do what?

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 27, 2007, 06:03:38 PM
hansvonlieven, attract and collect frequencies and or sound waves. The picture is kind of a cut out version of the design I have stuck in my head. The design would be a circle meaning all the components would be wrapped around each other. It should create a turbine affect.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 27, 2007, 07:40:55 PM
Yes, but how does it do that, what is the scientific principle behind your layout?

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 27, 2007, 08:17:54 PM
hansvonlieven, I revised the picture because I had the polarities wrong. The design is based on the magnetic flux flow. It flows from the ends to the middle and the downward flow is what I based this design on. The downward flow would create a turbine effect and the ferromagnetic material would limit the upward flows attraction to help allow the frequency and or sound waves to flow thru with out a strong resistance. The cores are used to attract the flow. Copper is used for the positive because frequencies flow more freely using copper then the do using Zinc. Zinc is used as the negative because of it's greater resistance capability. 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 08:29:17 PM
@nightlife i told you once please don't pollute this thread with nonsense ...  Go get a account on instructables.com or something and post there or in another thread please your ideas just don't seem to mesh with our gameplan.        Thanks
                                                                                              Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 27, 2007, 08:33:02 PM
Localjoe, this thread is based on extracting energy from the earth and all I did was post a design that I thought may help do that.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 08:35:50 PM
We dont post things we dont have evidence for tho ... so my point is in YOUR HEAD Doesn't count unless your one of the senior electronics members and you have a brain storm... say one of the folks at the micro tpu thread...  or hans for instance ..
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 27, 2007, 08:44:22 PM
@ mramos:

Great shots!  You sure have the right equipment for measuring this stuff. One small correction on your post, I ran 45 minutes off the supercap, not 45 seconds.  Actually over an hour but the led was very, very dim by that point.  The charge time was about 10 minutes or so I believe. (on the earth cell)  I will be glad to "attempt" a drawing of my small circuit with the cap specs and led specs and the cell as well.  It will look like a drunken third grader drew it however.  I really must learn how to use these sketch programs better.  I will post it though. Your 60 Hz makes me wonder.  No scope here so I don't know what I have.  Sounds like Tesla's ac frequency for residential power though does it not?  We have read that the earth's freq. should very very low, like 4Hz to 15Hz I think it was. Thanks for posting your work for us.

@ Bruce:

Interesting.  I charged the one cell (using old 9 volt bat.) on the neg. electrode.  Now I will have to try doing that to the positive side. Hutchinson's crystal batteries are one-time charged with high frequency burst.  I wonder if we need that as well?  I was going to try to pump some amps down there but maybe just volts is better?  A lot of experimentation needed here I think.  Electric cows...? Really?  That's amazing. Your electron tube concept makes as much sense to me as anything else we are talking about.  I mean, why not? Anything is possible in my opinion.  I gave up trying to use reason when I saw electricity coming out of my little tree in the front yard.

@ Jeanna:

I was disappointed that my cell did not hold the charge from the 9 volt battery very long, and was slowly dropping but, according to my friend, it should not have held anything at all.  So, there is hope and a lot of experimentation to do for everyone I think.  Can you reach a water pipe to try Han's idea?  I need to make up about a 50 foot lead to do so...lots of resistance there.  My plumbing in my little apartment is about as far away from my cells in the garden as it can get.

@ cub3:

You have my sympathies trying to follow this on dial-up.  I just obtained dsl about 6 months ago and then discovered this forum, and youtube, and all sorts of things I had no idea existed even though I have been on the internet from its early beginings. I have ATT dsl here in Kentucky, USA for only $10/month USD.  That is exactly what I was paying for dial-up. I tweaked my software and made a few hardware changes and now I run dsl (light) 300kbps at 900kbps download speeds and sometimes a little faster.  What a difference. You might check into it in your area.  You can go to ATT .com and can check your number to see if it will work with dsl.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 08:54:11 PM
@mr amos
 Thank you so much for going outside with a scope ;D ive been wishing i had one this whole time.. The rusty iron bar i saw in your pic barley worked for me i was using 12" zinc skew/ carriage bolt  and a copper pipe.  Our amprege readings were from dead short not off of a resistor so i dotn know how accurate, but when i put the cap hooked to my leads and then the led directly off of it it does light constantly so thats where my ideas for a biger resivor so to say came from, the rate at which the cap is charged is pretty fast and the rate at which the micro tpu would draw from that might not be as fast as the cap recharging itself. Meaning it would have an indefanite supply.  My logic could be flawed but thats what i have so far. :)
                                                                                                                                 Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 27, 2007, 08:58:56 PM
Localjoe, I am a trouble shooter by trade so if i was you, I would consider what I suggest before thinking I am just some idiot. There are plenty of designs posted here that have not been tried and I don't see you telling those who posted them that they shouldn't post things that haven't been tested already.

 I was only trying to help and I in no way am here to get in a pissing match with anyone. If you would rather I didn't post in your thread then just say it and I will stop posting in your thread.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 27, 2007, 09:09:36 PM
@ Bill,

Most apartment buildings have an outside tap. Use this. Failing this, the gas or water meters are connected to underground pipes. There are many places where you can tap into the system.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 09:10:01 PM
Its not that i mind you posting.. but all the other ideas here are from patents, previous experiments that worked, or our own replications.. if you had done that exp and told us what the results were. we could then compare it to ours and evaluate but i do not have time to just start guessing based on your frequency's theory... no offense the last post was harsh its just getting outa hand.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: nightlife on December 27, 2007, 09:24:58 PM
Localjoe, I can respect that and please note my electricity theory is what I was referring to as a frequency and what ever electricity may be, that design should be able to attract it based on the fact that magnetic fields attract and move electricity.

 I am not saying it would work and i was only throwing it out there for others to consider and or to help give them a brain storm that may be able to utilize the concept.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 27, 2007, 09:42:55 PM
@ mramos:

With any luck, here is a diagram (crude) of my phase I single cell.  If I can't also fit the circuit picture in this post, I will do it in a seperate one.  If anything is not clear, please ask me.  I am sorry for the terrible graphics here.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 27, 2007, 09:48:23 PM
@ Hans:

Good suggestions but, we have no outside water outlets or gas here.  There is even no water meter for each apartment which is why we don't pay a water bill. I will figure something out because I really want to try your idea.  An entire network of conducting material placed underground alligned every which way, including some polar north and south no doubt, and running for many, many miles. It has to be tried.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 09:51:09 PM
@Bill

>>> how does that work .. i missed someting when jenna was asking all those questions.. hmmmmm i was sticking my led in parallel with the cap and thats waht i told mr amos to try but yours puts it inline hmmm this is different good too cause its another route for me to try  ;) ;D
                                                                                                                                         Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 27, 2007, 10:03:58 PM
OK Bill,

very good, now try this:

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 27, 2007, 10:09:43 PM
@ Joe:

I should have been more clear on my photo of the circuit, sorry.  I just went from minus side of cap to minus side of led.  The reason for the open plus side wire is so I can use it as a crude mechanical switch.  When I connect it to the plus leg of the led, it lights.  When I charge it on the cell, I can leave it open. (unconnected)  What you can't see in the photo is that on the minus side of the cap. I soldered a very small extension.  This way I have somewhere to connect my alligator clip to.  When I want the led on and to be charging the cap. I just pinch the circuit closed by connecting the led plus leg to the wire using the alligator clip from the lead from the plus side of my cell.  It holds it together ok.  I didn't think about it but I guess this is wired in series afterall.  It is such a simple circuit that I can get easily confused.
If this does not answer your question, please let me know.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 10:15:49 PM
@ Bill if your bending the lead back to the plus side of the cap its in parallel same polarites to each other ... Um but does it work the way the pic looks like carbon to  led + lead and mg to the cap plus lead.Thats what i thought you were telling me before and why i asked how is this working? :)  But Han's setup is a real good idea to try hopefully that works for us to increase our voltage potential.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 27, 2007, 10:30:39 PM
Hi all,the book was boring, of course.
I woke up with the next idea.
I am in the middle of making cement "cups" out of big yogurt tubs. I will fill these with earth and use the pots to hold individual electrodes. Maybe there will be enough separation to get some added voltage.

Hans, isn't your last drawing what we have done before? as soon as we put a second set of cells into the earth the voltage goes down , usually to zero. Maybe I missed something in your drawing?

Joe, I think Bills circuit IS parallel. he has the neg leg of the led attached to the neg side of the cap and the pos side of the cap is hanging out in the picture, but it will attach to the pos end of the cap.

I wish my components would get here soon, (I plan to make something with the wires soldered so it is easier to tell.)

Bill,
I wonder about this charging the cell thing. You are only using 12 volts and getting an effect, maybe  the AC wires from the grid really are charging the earth? I am out in the country. The grid is here but my set up is easily 100 ft from any power company wires. I get better results with the same better elements, but I don't get the numbers you are getting. I don't remember ever getting a reading higher than 1.09v. ? I will check.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 27, 2007, 10:34:38 PM
@Jeanna,

I am thinking here of a test with polar alignment of the whole array. I do not know if this has been tried

Hans

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 27, 2007, 11:10:24 PM
but when i put the cap hooked to my leads and then the led directly off of it it does light constantly so thats where my ideas for a biger resivor so to say came from, the rate at which the cap is charged is pretty fast
                                                                                                                                 Joe

I missed that you also got a led to light. (so many posts so little time) How many volts are you getting?

Maybe we just need to make a home made cap so we can hold enough voltage. ?

I may try this charging thing too. I never saw much last winter when I was playing with static E. Could be I was doing something wrong or my materials (Al foil and plastic cups) were too weak. Hmm. More likely I totaly forgot to get out the led set up.

Magnesium rims what a great thought! I think I have them on my own car. (late 80's)

jeanna

Hans I will look carefully
I didn't realise it but I missed a whole page before I made my last post
(Yes, 9 volts from Bills battery not 12.)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 11:12:13 PM
@Mr Amos
 Well what works works.. i had the exact same one from the garden as a post but i only chewed off a little rust with my gator clip i didnt sand it so i may not have had a good connection ,  the zinc screw astounded me at being only a foot and working so well but i may go back to steel and double check.  Thanks for the insight

@ jenna no we havent tried that setup yet because it shows a sub cell in between the two existing ones shorted to each other

... And the last post you had me roaring in laughter... you think i would have sent bill and all the rest of you good folks out on a wild goose chase without actually trying the things myself.. I guess I understand because some threads here are all nonsense but dont think your alone out there as soon as i have a dry spot i'm going back out to continue.
                                                                                                                                Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 11:41:58 PM
Theres the Spirt !... Mr amos bill said he it stays bright for a while and is still lit dimly at 45 minutes not seconds.. just a note ;D
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 27, 2007, 11:43:49 PM
@Jeanna,

I am thinking here of a test with polar alignment of the whole array. I do not know if this has been tried

Hans


Thanks Hans,   It is what I have been doing. In fact it was yesterday when I finally got snap hooks on wire leads that I got the true reading of zilch. no up and down just zero.
There is something here but it is not what we are used to so we need to make our collective boxes very large and try wierd things.

I like the pipe idea. I need to re read it.
Also, I thought of the britta filter that needs to be changed anyway. It may give me a good source of carbon.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 27, 2007, 11:53:40 PM
The LED is 20mA, so on the EB does it seem to be bright?  Can you take a shot of it hooked up?

 
Right, and it works on Bill's and I guess joe's but I am not getting enough, I better try again, maybe I missed something before

Quote
I would probably put in many of them side by side (parallel) and a second row in front of them (series).  Ramp the volts and current.

good, please try. I have not been able to increase this by adding in series, yet, please come and join the fun.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 27, 2007, 11:57:46 PM


@ jenna no we havent tried that setup yet because it shows a sub cell in between the two existing ones shorted to each other

... And the last post you had me roaring in laughter... you think i would have sent bill and all the rest of you good folks out on a wild goose chase without actually trying the things myself.. I guess I understand because some threads here are all nonsense but dont think your alone out there as soon as i have a dry spot i'm going back out to continue.
                                                                                                                                Joe
I'm glad you laughed. I just forgot or missed it.
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 28, 2007, 12:23:46 AM
Wow, I went out on an assignment and came back and look at all the posts.  I will answer some now and work backwards and post other answers later.

@mramos:

I have a video of the led burning at night on youtube.  It is somewhere way back in this thread (the link) or later, I will post another link to it, or you can search youtube for 0WildBill0 and or earth battery experiments. Sorry I don't have the link handy at the moment.  You can dead short the cap.  No charge on it.  Then hook it and the led onto the cell and the led lights and the cap also charges.  Leave it hooked to the cell for about 1/2 hour + or - and then, take the circuit inside (disconnected from the cell) and it has burned bright for the better part of 30 MINUTES, and gets pretty dim by 45 MINUTES and will light for over one hour but not very much light at all. (Sorry for the emphisis but I am proud of this, ha ha)  What really amazes me is that it lights the led AND charges the cap at the same time.  I can also run 2 leds off of the cap when inside the house and disconnected from the cell. Not near as bright as one though.  That is why I want to get more caps just like this one, if I can find any.  Let me know if you can't find the video and I will look it up and post another link.  I am glad that we have EE guys like you here as my knowledge of electronics is getting much better, but still limited. (Very limited)  Thanks.

@ Hans:

I tried that same set up a while back and here is the thing.  Even if I go from + on the left cell to - on the right, I can measure voltage there, between the two cells.  Not as high as the polar alignment but the electrodes appear to think they are a cell and just not alligned as good.  So, when I did that, I got a dead short (or I believe I did) between the left cell + and the right cell -, the same with the right cell + and the left cell -.  Does this make any sense?  Both cells are polar alligned.  What I have not tried was to place them all on the exact same meridian as opposed to left and right. (but still polar alligned)  What I am afraid this might do would be, we would have a + to the very north and then a  - south say 5 foot away (on the alignment) and then another + and then another -.  This would appear to go against keeping the plus material to the north and so on.  I have not tried it but can.  Did I explain this in any understandable way at all? Thanks for the updated sketch.

@ Joe:

The carbon + goes to the cap + and the mag. - goes to the cap. minus.  I guess this is parallel isn't it?  That exposed + wire makes it look more confusing than it is but if I soldered it to the + leg of the led I could not charge with and without the led on.  I could just put in a switch but I didn't want to add anything that might increase resistance at this point.

I went to three stores today and ALL were sold out on the magnesium firestarter blocks!!  The word must be getting out. Ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 28, 2007, 12:39:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9ZKDKDclY)

@mramos:

Above should be a link that works to the video.  I made this a while ago and am getting more volts now.  1.8 vdc is the highest by me so far without charging the cell with anything. I was only getting 1.59 vdc when I made the video. So, the led is brighter now than in the video is what I am trying to say.  At the end of the video, there is a nightshot of it.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 28, 2007, 12:46:38 AM
So Bill,

I soldered a plain green led - no resistor- to my double cap and it is NOW under the tree in a parallel arrangement between graphite pencil and mag block. I took a reading which is showing 1.6V _ this is very high for me as you know, but this tree is about 5 ft from my power meter and line to house (just beyond the mag block in the same S position).
I am letting it sit for 20 more minutes. I have not yet seen the light on, but the meter says it is going ???

Did you EVER hook this up for a shorter time?

BTW my super caps are.045F which is a whole lot less than yours even in series. (which I read yesterday is like parallel with resistors).
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 28, 2007, 12:50:36 AM
@ Joe:

Sorry for the multiple posts but I have found that if I only place 1 photo in a post and not much else, it appears to work.  This is a shot of the other side of my little circuit.  Here you can see the little post for the minus side of the capacitor where I hook an alligator clip from the magnesium block. The blue wire also is soldered to the minus side of the diode. (led)  The rest is as I explained with the red wire connecting to the plus side of the led and also to the jumper wire from the carbon rod.  This should make it more clear to see both sides.  Sorry.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 28, 2007, 01:04:42 AM
OK I just got nothing again. I put it out as just described. It was hooked up for 25 minutes. I never saw the light and now that it is disconnected, I get a reading of 0.040v across the leads.

So Mramos and Jeanna both get zero and Bill and Joe get a light.

Bill, have you been able to get the light on with another cap yet?

Joe, what is your arrangement that got you a light. what kind of cap were you using? a resistor? Was that on the tree?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 28, 2007, 01:48:53 AM
@jenna
 No im not going into the tree but for my meter to show anything more than a few micro amps i had to go near a tree... and started getting like 600 to 700 microamps and after alignment aroudn 1.2-1.3 ma in a dead short on my meter nothing but the leads and the meter.  Sometimes pulling one rod up or down in the ground will show an increase or decrease in current .. hence the dip.  And Jenna what is the ma reading on your setup before or after a resistor? now i know your not suspost to be able to measure current this way but the readings still work so mabey mr amos would be able to tell us a better way to measure the speed the current fill the cap or is that directly proportional to the voltage built up in it.  thanks folks great work
                                                                                                                                          Joe

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 28, 2007, 02:09:05 AM
what is the ma reading on your setup before or after a resistor? now i know your not suspost to be able to measure current this way but the readings still work so mabey mr amos would be able to tell us a better way to measure the speed the current fill the cap or is that directly proportional to the voltage built up in it.  thanks folks great work
                                                                                                                                          Joe


Well, I have never read the amperage. It is just cuz I was following the rules that the only actual person teacher I had in electronics told me to do. He said it would always be very inaccurate because of what the meter does to get it. I need to jump out of that box, I see. I will check many of my readings with amps. But it is dark now so that will have to wait.

I just got my super caps. I got 2 that are 1F and 5.5 volts and one can type non-polarized that is 1 microF at 100V (seems like wishfull thinking now)

Joe, What voltage did you get from your arrangement?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 28, 2007, 02:13:29 AM
@ jenna

Anywheres from 1.2 to 1.4 v with the cu and zinc, and i was the same way about the ma reading and then i said skrew it and just put the leads on it .. funny think is its measuring someting wether its accurate or not the span of ranges ive seen from the micro amp range into the mille amp range means something, even tho its not proper :)
                                                                                                                           Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 28, 2007, 02:40:10 AM
@ Jeanna:

I only have one capacitor at the moment. (5.5v .22F, not pico fared or micro fared, .22F)  I have seen some others on line but this one works so much like a battery I don't want to get something else that just dumps the charge all at once like all of my other ones here that I have salvaged from some power supplies.  I charged up one of my larger ones, larger in size not in Fareds, and it blew out one of my new leds by dumping everything all at once.  Fried the poor little thing. So, I am trying to stick with exactly what I found by accident by taking apart my "shake light".

@mramos:

If you go back to the previous page and look at the close-up of the cap. you can almost read the numbers.  Do you know where I might find these exact ones?

Thanks!

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: cub3 on December 28, 2007, 03:02:49 AM
Hi all, I just came across this, have not read it yet but may be pertinent, better minds than mine to read it.

Sorry, but better now than later.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Scalar_Winding_Around_Supercap

I was going to write, in my original post the difference in sound, of a valve radio/amplifier to a transistor driven device.
Tesla's little box with GLASS tubes versus semi conductors.

I would, love to read, an inventory of goods supplied to various past free energy pioneers.

Den

PS I goggled      cap. 5.5v .22F
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on December 28, 2007, 04:05:18 AM
Just came across perfect graphite rods for our experiments.  About 1/4" diameter and up to 8B soft.
http://www.pearlpaint.com/shop~ocID~5999~parentID~5992~categoryID~5988~layoutIndicator~vertical.htm
Check you local art stores.
George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 28, 2007, 05:57:11 AM
@ mramos:

Wow!  1.0 Farad?  Would this act "like" a battery as mine appears to do?  I have seen ones like these online but I hessitate as I don't know enough about caps to know why mine works like it does, and the others I have do not.  Also, my carbon rod was ordered from a company called Airgas.  They are here in town and I think on the web. Friday, I will at least post their phone number and/or website.  I believe I paid around $20.00 USD for my original rod which was 1" od x 17" long.  that included shipping.  I have cut it in half now for series experiments as I did not have the funds for another one.  With 1.0 Farad, I think I could store a lot of volts, correct?  Would that be about 4 times what I am storing now?  Also mramos, a question.  Why is the "larger" in size cap rated "smaller" in Farads?  I have a cap here the size of a D cell battery and it is rated way lower than my little supercap.  Is there something in the design of the supercap that allows it to perform almost like a battery?  I had posted where Sears, and others, are using caps now instead of batteries for their cordless screwdrivers.  Recharge fully in like 5 minutes as opposed to 3 hours.  Forgive my ignorance, but this is how I learn.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 28, 2007, 06:36:59 AM


I have caps.  Will these do it. 

Mramos,
The 2 that I have soldered together in "series"  are exactly the smaller one on the right

The one I just got 2 of are exactly the one on the left. I got 2 hoping one each will do. I will order more if they work.
I am glad to have the same thing to try. It might help understanding.
I got these things from allelectronics.com shipping $7 flat charge.

I didn't get any light today. I purposely used a led without a resistor so I could see even the littlest bit. The resistor is key to a useable light. That is why I think Bill's cap somewhere inside has that function built in, although so far I haven't seen one for sale.

My set up is with 2 caps in series which I think ups the volts and halves the farads, though I can't figure it out now and a 1,000 ohm resistor. So it takes a moment to show the light when I put it up to a battery and it lasts for about 30 seconds bright then continues for another 20 getting less and less.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 28, 2007, 06:47:04 AM
I was just looking in the catalog they sent me along with todays order. The Memory back-up "supercaps" says this: "High capacitance capacitors. Slowly release charge to provide back-up power in temporary shut down situations." 

So, they have a design feature just made for us!

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 28, 2007, 07:46:19 PM
 

Also, in parallel, capacitors add in value.  So Jeana, put the two caps in parallel with each other, then the cap pair in series with the LED.



I will try that. What is so cool about Bill's circuit is that in putting the load in parallel to the cap is that he was able to charge the cap and run the load simultaneously.  I have now done that with a battery which has about 2 volts charge in it, but not the earth battery yet.

Please explain what it means add in value. in amps? or volts? or maybe something else?

Thanks,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 28, 2007, 07:47:30 PM
@ All:

I finally found my receipt for the carbon rod

Airgas-Mid America
3000 Industrial Drive
Bowling Green, KY 42101
270-842-9486

Carbon Rod 1" X 17"  Item #ARC 4716-4000         Price=$21.77

They may have other locations across the U.S. but you could call and ask.  Hope this helps. They also have other sizes.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 28, 2007, 08:03:41 PM
@Jenna
  Something weird I experienced was the Dead short showing on the meter... So i guess as far as a flow diagram by having the cap and a diode after the diode/led may be forming a recursive loop not found in most circuits... *** Brings up the idea to put one led on either side of the cap.. mr amos may have mentioned this or hans i cant remember ... but I think that should light both led's and charge the cap if done right..?
  Like in one of my first  posts i was able to run a battery in series with the ground and light an led from one copper rod to the positive of the led and the battery's negative to the led neg or grnd,  but in between the copper rod was the earth and then a zinc screw attached to the plus of the battery.   It worked very inefficiently but did so it was an interesting exp.  May this exp will give you more ideas conceptually to try with this.
@All-  thanks again for all your hard work this project and all the research has been not only mind expanding yet humbling at the same time.
                                                                                             Salute to those who came before and those who will continue on..
                                                                                                                                   Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 28, 2007, 09:32:54 PM
http://www.globar.com/ec/maxcap-double-layer-capacitors.html (http://www.globar.com/ec/maxcap-double-layer-capacitors.html)


Above is a link to some really SUPER caps!  5.5 volt and 5.6 farads!!  Yes, 5.6F  It says they can keep RAM operating for WEEKS.  I think we need these.  Have not checked the price yet but will.  You electronics guys please let me know what you think about these.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 28, 2007, 11:06:10 PM
G'day everybody,

Just a quick one for now, seemingly off the topic (sorry Joe) but it does seem to be further substantiation of my theory about perpendicular fields and their ability to increase substantially the energy flow in a system.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=anandaadhar

This guy is using a small magnet that he uses to create perpendicular pulses in a magnet arrangement. This is not a fake. The principle is known (see Stephen Kundel's motor) but here is a dramatic demonstration of a possible increase in power. I think we are on the right track. A lot further to go yet though.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 28, 2007, 11:53:34 PM
a couple of notes and i will post more later, as i am still catching up, when i referred to "charging the battery" i intended to hook the positive to your negative pole and the negative to positive earth at the same time, this however promotes electric current between the poles i think, but hey since we are experimenting wanna find out?

i googled farad and the definition is " farad is the amount of a columb of energy obtained by a cap from 1 volt current."

i have a 600 farad cap that is 200 wats from a tv... can you say fun? :D

so in short a farad is how effecient a cap is? im assuming?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2007, 12:31:53 AM


@Jenna
  Something weird I experienced was the Dead short showing on the meter...
Do you mean when the probe touched any part of the earth or even some dirt near the earth? 

Thanks


I will look back at some earlier posts to review.



jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2007, 04:00:43 AM
34
12

I guess no tables  :'( oh well
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 29, 2007, 04:20:36 AM
@ Jeanna:

What?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 29, 2007, 04:39:16 AM
(snip)
To put it very simply, electrons are released by the heater.  They are repelled by a negative plate.  But then potential is added to the positive side, and all of those electrons come running over to the positive plate.  The greater the potential, the greater the flow of electrons.

If in the ground, (and I have no way to test any of this until I arrive back home in January) we set our Southern electrode for the negative and travel a distance (I own a farm and have a lot of room) and place our positive electrode in the North.  We then complete the circuit with resistor, load, whatever and like a tube, place a high voltage potential on the positive plate, perhaps from stored current in a cap, through a circuit, and it releases this pulse of high voltage on the positive plate.  This higher potential will attract free electrons in the ground and increase the overall power.  Perhaps this is the part of Stubblefield's patent, not there.  Add a high potential to them coils and perhaps all kinds of power starts increasing in flow.  It also sounds like some of the reports I have read on the incremental increase of power in his system.

But before we think that big, we need to test this theory.  Apply a higher voltage, low current to the positive electrode for a short time and see if the overall power increases as I think it should.  If it does, then for how long.  Then we configure a circuit to pulse HV from a cap that has stored our captured ground current.  And use it to multiply power.  This is my thoughts and a path that needs to be tested.

Holiday Cheers,
Bruce

@ Bill and All

Bill, your little nine volt battery you tied into your negative electrode will not leave my brain..  ;D

I quoted myself, talking about putting a higher potential on the positive plate, creating a dipole and encouraging more free electrons to be attracted to our voltage output.

Well, I also found this, from a link that Pese gave out some time ago.  Again, I will highlight the key parts that shouted at me.  I will be ordering my carbon tomorrow.  Thank you for finding that link.  It should be on my stoop, when I return home.

I have a plan formulating in my mind.  I predict that I will have that micro tpu, ground powered by January 14th.   ;)

Quote:
"The induction coil which bears his name is equipped with three coils which are wrapped around and upon a heavy iron core. Bare iron wire and cotton-covered copper wire are wrapped side by side, comprising a primary coil body. Each layer of the primary coil  body is covered by a band of cotton insulation, bringing four wire leads to the coil terminus. Two leads of iron and two of copper are external to the coil. Commercial electrical power is obtained through these connective terminals.

In addition to this bimetallic winding, there is a third winding: the "secondary". This third coil is insulated from the primary bimetallic coil, serving as a trigger device. Presumably, a stimulating impulse shock was introduced into the tertiary coil, after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils."

From:
 http://www.icehouse.net/john34/stublefield1.html

"...after which the upwelling electrical ground response brought forth powerful currents in both iron and copper coils." 

I think this will be the secret to gain more power!!  IMPULSE SHOCK  :o

Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 29, 2007, 05:01:27 AM
@ Bruce:

Yes, exactly!  Just to be clear, I didn't come up with that idea, I read it either from where you posted from, or elsewhere.  Actually, I remember reading this in several places, possibly on the patents? I believe they called it "priming the pump".  What I don't get, with my somewhat limited knowlege, is why the earth responded a bit like a capacitor when I did this?  I mean, we pump all sorts of power/volts to ground every day, right?  Mostly ac ok, but some dc as well right?  So, where does this go?  I searched all over town today for another magnesium block and every store was sold out.  I can't believe this.  These things are usually all over the place.  K-Mart had the exact one I am using on cell 1 for $1.99 but, they were sold out! I really want to do some more research on the "priming the pump" method.  Once I have my other mag. block, I will have 2 cells identical in every way.  I can use one for a control and pump volts and or amps into the other and see how high it goes and how long it stays there, etc.  Without the coil arrangement Stubblefield had, or the TPU device, I don't think it will stay forever in my garden.  But, isn't the fact that it stays there at all a little amazing? And, this from a 9 volt. (old one too)  I mentioned my car battery charger in several posts.  With your experience, do you think this is something to try also?  I don't remember what it is rated but, runs off ac of course, and will charge dead car battery (enough to crank over) in like 20 minutes.  Should be some amps there I would think.  Can you see how Joe's original post got me hooked into this?  I more I think I learn about it, the more I find that is not known about it.  BTW  when you order the rod, it had to be shipped here (to Bowling Green) from their supplier.  You might be able to have their supplier drop-ship it directly to you and make payment arrangements with the Bowling Green, Ky people.  Would save double shipping.  They were very nice to me and easy to deal with.  I told the guy I only wanted one piece, not 10,000 and he said "hey, an order is an order." I liked that. Now, if we could find magnisum plates or rods of decent size...who knows?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 29, 2007, 06:20:36 AM
@ Bruce:

Yes, exactly!  Just to be clear, I didn't come up with that idea, I read it either from where you posted from, or elsewhere.  Actually, I remember reading this in several places, possibly on the patents? I believe they called it "priming the pump".  What I don't get, with my somewhat limited knowlege, is why the earth responded a bit like a capacitor when I did this?  I mean, we pump all sorts of power/volts to ground every day, right?  Mostly ac ok, but some dc as well right?  So, where does this go?  I searched all over town today for another magnesium block and every store was sold out.  I can't believe this.  These things are usually all over the place.  K-Mart had the exact one I am using on cell 1 for $1.99 but, they were sold out! I really want to do some more research on the "priming the pump" method.  Once I have my other mag. block, I will have 2 cells identical in every way.  I can use one for a control and pump volts and or amps into the other and see how high it goes and how long it stays there, etc.  Without the coil arrangement Stubblefield had, or the TPU device, I don't think it will stay forever in my garden.  But, isn't the fact that it stays there at all a little amazing? And, this from a 9 volt. (old one too)  I mentioned my car battery charger in several posts.  with your experience, do you think this is something to try also?  I don't remember what it is rated but, runs off ac of course, and will charge dead car battery (enough to crank over) in like 20 minutes.  Should be some amps there I would think.  Can you see how Joe's original post got be hooked into this?  I more I think I learn about it, the more I find that is not known about it.  BTW  when you order the rod, it had to be shipped here (to Bowling Green) from their supplier.  You might be able to have their supplier drop-ship it directly to you and make payment arrangements with the Bowling Green, Ky people.  Would save double shipping.  They were very nice to me and easy to deal with.  I told the guy I only wanted one piece, not 10,000 and he said "hey, an order is an order." I liked that. Now, if we could find magnisum plates or rods of decent size...who knows?

Bill

Hi Bill,

I do not think the earth is a capacitor.  I agree with your friend.  I am now thinking of it as a storehouse of free electrons waiting to be attracted...I hope to our electrode.

Again, I think of electrons attraction to a positive plate in a tube.  But all the power goes to heat the filament, and that released the electrons.  Positive is powered up on the plate and those electrons shoot over to it.  Now, with the earth, in this North (positive) - South (negative) allignment, we seem to have all of these free electrons.  If we create a "positive plate" more electrons are drawn into our circuit.  That is my thinking.

Now, how to safely do this.  I would not use a car battery. We do not need amperage. 
Check this out:
"Vacuum tubes require two power sources: a low-voltage, high-current supply for the filaments and a high-voltage low-current supply for the plates. ... "

Notice it says the low-voltage, high-current supply for the filaments, this is what is heated to release the electrons in a tube.  We don't need that because the electron are already released for us in the Earth... ;D  Now look at the next part..

High-voltage low-current supply for the plates!!   :o  So this is what we want for the Positive electrode in the North!  (positive on battery to positive to electrode.  You could also test it in reverse and see if there is a difference.)  How to get it.  Well if you were localjoe, or mramos I would say build a circuit.  But the easiest way for you would be to take or I, is to take several 9volt batteries and wire in series.  Keep a log and post it.

Example:  9 volts positive to positive for 1 minute and then released.  After, voltage reading was n for x amount of minutes before dropping.  Then try 18 volts, 36, etc.  If we see some real result, we can shoot for stun guy mode and look at Kilovolts.  But let's see if there is something to this before we go there.  LOL

Lastly, again, think of it not as a capacitor holding charge, but as an electron tubes positive plate attracting free electrons!

P.S.  Another idea that I just had, is using some static electricity.  Static electricity is about 1000 volts, but no current at all.  Maybe figure out a way to produce some of that on the positive electrode.

I can't wait to get home and help out!  LOL 

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 29, 2007, 07:10:11 AM
@ Bruce:

Forgive me for my absentmindedness, I have a lot going on at the moment.  I went back over my notes from the other day's experiments and, yes I was sitting near the negetive electrode at the time, but I noted that I had used the 9 volt battery as a complete circuit.  What I mean is, I had my lead from the carbon rod attached to the + side of the battery, and the other lead was attached to the negetive side and went to, in this case the - zinc spike.  I need to be more clear on posting my results and I am sorry.  The cell still held a higher voltage charge for about 10 minutes or longer, thanks to the battery.  I tested and posted my picture about 10 seconds after disconnecting the battery from the cell.  I still think this means something, I just am not sure what. I believe the reading was 2.19 vdc after the "pulse" from the 9 volt.  I did not check amps, or rather mA.  I also did not hook up my led/cap. circuit to the cell after this pulse from the battery.  If the rain quits here any over the weekend, maybe I can repeat some of this and keep better track of my results.  I do have access to a 200,000 volt stun baton.  I would not begin to know how to "wire" that to the cell without knocking myself out, ha ha.  I like the static idea.  Van Degraf generator would be handy for this. Of course, I don't have one.  So, car battery charger not a good idea then?  I don't recall what Stubblefield used as there was not much grid electricity available in his area at the time of his experiments.  I will think about this while I am not sleeping.

@ Jeanna:

Can you reach a water pipe from your cell experimet area to attempt what Hans suggested?  I can but need to buy an additional 50' of wire and solder two more alligator clips to it.  I think this is a great thing to try.  If not, can anyone else?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 29, 2007, 07:47:05 AM
@ All:

If anyone else is considering purchasing a carbon rod, here is a photo of a way I devised to attach the leads to them.  It appears to work well, although I am sure there are better ways.  I first thought about a hose clamp but I wanted something not very reactive and good in the weather.  I figured the lead in the solder would not be so bad as having the copper strand wire attached directly.  It may not matter, I don't know. I just wanted to save you all from going through what I did to get it done.  The one on the top left has been outside in the weather (ice, snow, rain, etc.) for over 2 months.  I think it is holding up well. (They are friction fit with a 1" I.D. to fit over the 1" O.D. of the rod.)




Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: tishatang on December 29, 2007, 09:22:17 AM
Hi all

Regarding connecting wire to carbon rod or other difficult connections:

I think there is heat shrink tape instead of tubing.  You could just wrap bare wire first around rod and then wrap the heat shrink tape around the connection and then apply heat.  Should shrink down tight and be waterproof?

Just an idea.

Tishatang
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2007, 02:01:03 PM
The cell still held a higher voltage charge for about 10 minutes or longer, thanks to the battery.  I tested and posted my picture about 10 seconds after disconnecting the battery from the cell.  I still think this means something, I just am not sure what. I believe the reading was 2.19 vdc after the "pulse" from the 9 volt.  I did not check amps, or rather mA.  I will think about this while I am not sleeping.

@ Jeanna:

Can you reach a water pipe from your cell experimet area to attempt what Hans suggested?  I can but need to buy an additional 50' of wire and solder two more alligator clips to it.  I think this is a great thing to try.  If not, can anyone else?

Bill
I seem to be thinking about this WHILE I'm sleeping! I have been awake since 3: 30 thinking about this.

The question I have for you and for Joe is did either of you test the battery after you charged the earth? I am pretty sure neither of you mentioned it. I gather you did not get an extra 9 volts (or Joe didn't get an extra 1.5 volts) from the battery into the cell. That in itself is saying something. So, I am wondering if it really took all the juice from the battery or just a little that showed up in the earth battery?

No water pipes. just septic tanks and private wells around here.

I better get some more sleep.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 29, 2007, 06:50:20 PM
@ tishatang:

That's not a bad idea.  I wanted to isolate the copper wire from the carbon though which is why I used the solder. I didn't want a reaction between the bare copper wire and the carbon. I suppose I could wrap the set up now though.  Thanks.

@ Jeanna:

No, and no.  But, I only had it connected for about 20-30 seconds.  I did not test the battery after, I did not think about it. I should have.  I will be doing more tests in this area and will see how high it goes on the cell with leaving the battery connected for like 1 minute, 2 minutes, etc. If long enough, it may well go up approaching 9 volts, who knows? I will check the battery after each test. Good idea.





Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 29, 2007, 08:14:34 PM
@jenna im not home for the weekend so this will be quick

The battery meaning a battery not rods in earth was a 12 v dewalt one and it was a completely separate exp to see if i could run a battery in series with the ground meaning using the ground as a conductor and power a load on the other side.  This is not pertinent for you to understand, just a side exp, our results came in no way from hooking up batteries and that is just being tested now for the priming the pump concept from stubblefeild work so stick with the basics im not trying to lead you a stray.  Again i took a 12 v battery just to see if i could use he ground as a  single line conductor and i used my copper rod on he load side and a terminal directly from the negative of the battery
the plus on the battery was connected to the zinc rod in the ground the ground served as the link between the zinc and the copper as far as i could tell i.. If this is confusing dont bother with that aspect,  the led exp i had mentioned was yet another different experiment i will try to organize my thoughts further .
                                                                         Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2007, 08:50:30 PM
Again i took a 12 v battery just to see if i could use he ground as a  single line conductor and i used my copper rod on he load side and a terminal directly from the negative of the battery
the plus on the battery was connected to the zinc rod in the ground the ground served as the link between the zinc and the copper as far as i could tell i.
                                                                         Joe

Oh I see. What a fabulous idea. Thanks for explaining it. So, you used the ground as a very long conductor and picked up the charge at a distance? Even if it wasn't as good as a direct hit off the battery, I see. kinda like tesla-grounded.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2007, 09:17:00 PM
High-voltage low-current supply for the plates!!   :o 


P.S.  Another idea that I just had, is using some static electricity.  Static electricity is about 1000 volts, but no current at all.  Maybe figure out a way to produce some of that on the positive electrode.

I can't wait to get home and help out!  LOL 

Cheers,

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Last winter I was playing around with static electricity some.  In the attempts to make a good supply of static E but to not have to make a generator, I learned to make a very simple one.

Here goes:
Take a plastic plumbing pipe around 3-4 ft long (1 meter +) and a woolen or mohair glove. Now, wrap your gloved hand completely around the pipe and run your hand down the full length of the pipe and back again. Do this until the little hairs on your arm start to dance. You may hear some pops. Depending on the humidity of the day this will take 1 to a few times.

I had made a capacitor-Leyden jar  by covering a plastic drinking glass with Al foil covering the bottom, and also the inside. The foil stopped about 2 in (6cm) from the top on both sides. Each piece of foil has an Al electrode sticking up about 1 in (3 cm ) above the top of the glass. (If you put some water into the glass it will hold even more charge.)

So to get all that charge onto one of the electrodes start near your gloved hand and gently touch the electrode while you pull the pipe toward you. You can build up more charge with the pipe and repeat the transfer many times- just be sure to always touch the same electrode and always pull the pipe toward you.

You can get a spark that hurts your finger when you touch it.   Somewhere there is a figure for the relashionship between the length of the spark and the voltage. I will edit this post if I find it soon.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 29, 2007, 09:19:10 PM
certain iron ores or steels have high carbon content such as "pig iron" rebar made from left over iron and steel that was not deemed top quality. i think the rebar is the best steel or iron to use personally. i have a special box my grandfather made for me that can generate frequencies in electricity and alter voltages ect,. i am going to use it later today on the poles i have one steel one copper. tell you about it later.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 29, 2007, 09:22:56 PM
@ Jeanna and Bruce:

So, would you hold the plastic pipe (great idea Jeanna) to the positive electrode while rubbing?  Or, would you build up a charge of several thousand volts and then dump it into the positive electorde as a pulse? I watched a physics seminar on the web and the guy from MIT said that if a spark can jump 1/2 inch it is at least in the several 10's of thousands of volts range. (20,000, 40,000)  Ouch.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2007, 10:17:17 PM
@ Jeanna and Bruce:

So, would you hold the plastic pipe (great idea Jeanna) to the positive electrode while rubbing?  Or, would you build up a charge of several thousand volts and then dump it into the positive electorde as a pulse? I watched a physics seminar on the web and the guy from MIT said that if a spark can jump 1/2 inch it is at least in the several 10's of thousands of volts range. (20,000, 40,000)  Ouch.

Bill

No, you pulse it. I guess that is the right term.  The main thing is not to go in the opposit way or touch the opposite electrode. (which is easy at a distance of 3 1/2 feet.)  The polarity will change if you go the opposite way, I think. 
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 29, 2007, 10:28:34 PM
Well folks,
Todays experiment looks like a bust. Let me explain.

I put cement pots - think flower pots without the little hole- in the ground. I filled these with dirt and added one electrode each. I put these into the ground between the cu pipe and zn rod that have been in the N-S orientation for some days.

There is no voltage anywhere. not between the pots and not between ground electrodes and pots.

I expected something because of the basil plants in separate pots (?) and the person in Texas (?) who used sand in a pot off the ground connected to the in-ground electrode.

This was nuthun. just like putting 2 sets of cells in series, but it was 1 cell.

There is information in this. I don't yet know what!

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on December 29, 2007, 11:35:55 PM
There is information in this. I don't yet know what!
jeanna

there is a patent of a multi cell battery having common electrolyte.  Maybe information is there?
us patent 4626481

George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 01:55:39 AM
@ George:

"What is claimed is:

1. A common electrolyte manifold battery, said battery including at least one module having a plurality of cells, at least one common electrolyte manifold traversing said cells for transporting an electrolyte, an anode and a cathode, said one cell comprising
an anode plate having an end proximal to said manifold and an end distal to said manifold, said distal end being connected to said anode;

a cathode plate, positioned parallel with said anode plate, having an end proximal to said manifold and an end distal to said manifold, said distal end being connected to said cathode; and

a layer of insulator enveloping each of said proximal end of said anode plate and said cathode plate, said insulator layers being contiguous with said common electrolyte manifold, whereby

short circuiting of said one cell is minimized."


The above is quoted from the patent you listed.  If I read this right it says the anode and cathode are connected in parallel.  I don't see how this would generate any more than 1.5 vdc.  They mention, very interestingly I think, sea batteries which have been discussed or mentioned here a few times.  Maybe someone who knows more than I can look at the patent and see if there is anything we can use from it.  Thanks for finding it George.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: todd.hathaway on December 30, 2007, 02:45:10 AM
Hi Bill,

Thanks for intro'ing me to this blog topic.  I'll have to peruse through the other topics for techs of interest later.  What is the best proof of concept Earth battery (and other adv energy techs) discussed in the overunity forums for show-n-tell at the event on June 28-29, mentioned online at www.green-salon.com?  Once the public knows they're real, it will be easier to secure funding for open source projects.

Thanks, Todd
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 30, 2007, 03:04:43 AM
Ummm I dont trust people in general .. Thats like making a list of thinks to snuff....  Unless anyone else here really thinks we need funding i say stay the hell clear of this convention thing... Let me make this clear again ... any developments in this thread are open source and will be defended as open source .. i have a large Italian family.  This topic is not for personal gain or profit, and whatever may come from it will be credited to every member who has contributed .. I say thats the easiest way to put it...
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: todd.hathaway on December 30, 2007, 03:11:45 AM
Ummm I dont trust people in general .. Thats like making a list of thinks to snuff....  Unless anyone else here really thinks we need funding i say stay the hell clear of this convention thing... Let me make this clear again ... any developments in this thread are open source and will be defended as open source .. i have a large Italian family.  This topic is not for personal gain or profit, and whatever may come from it will be credited to every member who has contributed .. I say thats the easiest way to put it...

New Energy Congress posts articles on advanced in alternative energy techs.  That's a good way to get the word out.  Posting all over the freakin Internet if you don't trust anyone works, and will allow our network to independently validate new open source techs via this forum and other web sites.  www.green-salon.com is just a web site...those interested in snuffing out adv energy techs already know what tects are out there and where they're being developed.  My little web site doesn't resolve that issue.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 30, 2007, 03:19:11 AM
Hi again,
So it rained for the rest of the day and I had an idea to put my brand new biggo supercap in parallel with the now-soldered 2 caps in series and LED that has no resistor.

I then charged it with 2 AAA batteries which were giving me a reading of 2.83V. I charged it for 20 seconds then pulled the battery leads away and counted. It went on for 2 full minutes as a good light then continued...

Now, I know one of the things about the LED is that if there is less juice it will use less and so use up what is there slower, so time is not the best gauge when it is running out - but it is impressive to get out 3 times the output in terms of time to charge and discharge.
.( but it is better than zippo outside with the cement pots! ;D)

I made a little avi file to show. It is 10 seconds charging and 20 discharging.
 wana see it?
Its boring and hard to see but it does  show proof. I may try to make another movie that is longer. I see I have room for 12 mb max.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 30, 2007, 03:21:26 AM
Ummm I dont trust people in general .. Thats like making a list of thinks to snuff....  Unless anyone else here really thinks we need funding i say stay the hell clear of this convention thing... Let me make this clear again ... any developments in this thread are open source and will be defended as open source .. i have a large Italian family.  This topic is not for personal gain or profit, and whatever may come from it will be credited to every member who has contributed .. I say thats the easiest way to put it...

I completely AGREE with you, Joe well, I do trust people in general. It is just this topic absolutely must be open source.

Jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 30, 2007, 03:24:18 AM
If you and your group would sign a disclaimer that stated in no way you could take these technologies and patent them for yourself  i would think about it , you just have to be careful now days.  I say let hans and bill evaluate your integrity if your good enough for them i'll trust you... But i am serious about the large Italian family. I dont like scammers and feel it a personal mission after getting ripped off a few christmas's back for 2 grand to hunt down scammers... so if your legit cool.  Otherwise i might have a striation-less projectile with your name on it..  ;D
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 30, 2007, 03:29:59 AM
Jenna
 If you have a chance completely discharge the caps and hook them to your earth battery even if its just copper and zinc  make sure not and i repeat not to insulate these and see what readings you get  after that try what bill has done with the resistor and the led and see what kind of lasting time you get from it ... As well his led may be a 1.5 v one and yours may be a higher rating could be why your not getting light try a diff led maybe.  Good work
                                                                                             Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: todd.hathaway on December 30, 2007, 03:52:10 AM
We have no intention of patenting anything ourselves but inventors usually put that check in the box with their own patents...don't think open source techs can be patented once the info is posted online, though Tom Valone at IRI is the expert in the patent field since he's been working at the USPTO and fighting with them in court for years until recently when he won his case, so you could ask him about that.  Anyway, Nora and I are more than happy to affirm and sign documentation stating that we'll keep open source techs and even potential open source techs out there for all to reproduce at will, since that's what we do with the techs we're funding out of our own pockets for inventors who are willing to open source their projects.  It's a small world this adv alternative energy field, so it won't take long for anyone with a phone and email account to determine our intent by making a few phone calls...just talk to people we interact with on a regular basis.  A lot of them are with the New Energy Congres and New Energy Movement.  Many more are listed online at www.green-salon.com.  It's better for researchers to work directly with other researchers than with us, as we can only help network technologies with prospective sources of funding, and it's hard to fund open source projects via investors since they can't lock in projected profits.  We can help by providing public awareness to new technologies so open source R&D can garner additional support from the public.  The only event coming up where inventors can present techs to our network directly is on June 28-29, mentioned online at www.green-salon.com, and we mention there no RSVP is required so anyone can bring anything they want, and even scope out the place to determine whether it's for them or not.  The idea for a tax credit for independent R&D is a good one, and some form of credit for alternative energy R&D may already be available...not sure about that one.

We're involved with DoD because we all have allies within DoD now - www.energyconversation.org is the web site that posts the dates for upcoming events where anyone can show up and meet with those working in DoD.  See also www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/040306_discussing_energy.shtml for info on one of the first meetings.  It's held at 300 Army Navy Drive at the Doubletree Hotel on Mondays around 6 p.m. - 9 p.m.  Speakers vary widely from one month to the next.  Even Nora's dad is talking at an upcoming event at Mitzi Wertheim's house in D.C.  She's mentioned in the fromthewilderness article somewhere, and helped start the Energy Conversation meetings and the Energy Consensus Group nonprofit.  Her house is where Nora and I met over a year ago. 

The pendulum is swinging in our favor in D.C...finally.  There are too many of us to control, and now we're infiltrating gov't circles in order to gain support for adv energy tech R&D.  It's impossible for the U.S. gov't to control open source techs since this is an international initiative, and the more we collaborate, the quicker the adv energy techs will be made available via open source.  We are no longer the minority as far as we're concerned. 

FYI - I added this www.overunity.com blog in the "Discussion Groups" section a few minutes ago to help get the word out. 

Todd & Nora
301-320-3716
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 30, 2007, 03:55:24 AM
Jenna
 If you have a chance completely discharge the caps and hook them to your earth battery even if its just copper and zinc  make sure not and i repeat not to insulate these and see what readings you get  after that try what bill has done with the resistor and the led and see what kind of lasting time you get from it ... As well his led may be a 1.5 v one and yours may be a higher rating could be why your not getting light try a diff led maybe.  Good work
                                                                                             Joe
Where are you getting these LEDs that work with so little voltage?

Thing is, my cu-zn isn't giving me that much voltage. It is giving me 1,003v. This nice cap set up shows both side of the parallel caps to say 1.18v so that is where the light stops glowing. I am using green. Maybe I should try red, but I think I remember that green is the one that needs the least for start up. see the start up of a green led otta be 1.65v but with these caps whipping the charge back n forth the light is staying on. well, that is my explanation anyway. I will look up to see if I can find some kind of LED that uses less than 1.65v.

I was outside yesterday with carbon - mag under the tree and the meter said 1.65v. Maybe it wasn't well connected  or maybe the leads touched the ground or something. cuz I got no light no charge. but it is the reason I soldered the leads of the light to the double cap. I will do it again  I need to try it with this parallel addition too.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 30, 2007, 03:57:56 AM
@ todd

Thanks we'll be in contact if were interested otherwise.. you could on a sunny weekend grab a few peices of metal trot out to the yard and tell us your results.. thanks for the input and make sure to read the whole thread if your going to advertise or replicate  ;D
                                                                          Thanks
                                                                                      Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: todd.hathaway on December 30, 2007, 04:05:37 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 30, 2007, 04:58:09 AM
144 k of awesome .. thanks
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 30, 2007, 06:07:14 AM
OOPS wrong color
Thanks Joe for pointing the way.
I will change to red right away. corse it still wants 1.6 or 1.9v
thanks
jeanna

I did and it is now going on and on. a 30 second charge has given it enough charge to keep lighting for maybe 4 or 5 min.

Now to the earth battery.
Next sunny day.

Joe, What are you meaning by not insulated?  I know to take the plastic off the cu but are you saying no insulation anywhere?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 06:09:45 AM
@ Joe:

Just to set the record straight here, my "invitation" to Todd came about in a way that I feel needs explaining.  If you read Hans's topic about being angry, Todd posted and asked something about why we were all complaining about his energy cartel and yet not doing anything to help promote free energy.  I took exception to this comment and you can read my response over on that topic but, basically I told him to look around the forum, and at the earth batteries topic.  I feel like we are all doing something by actually attempting to succeed with OPEN SOURCE.  His monopoly ideas do not gel with mine and the "invitation" was not extended as if they did. I won't go into more detail here but you can read over on Hans's topic and make up your own minds. I don't trust anyone that wants to buy my technology and then, sell it back to me.  Besides, they have Lawrence listed as one of their "experimenters".  You all have seen Lawrence's topic have you not?  Need I say more? Joe, sorry about the off topic but I felt this needed clarification.

Also, to everyone.  I have not used any resistors in my circuit.  I have some, many actually, but I would not know which one to use and, I don't think I need one.  This supercap discharges very slowly on its own.

@ Jeanna:

This is funny.  I have read that the red leds require the least amount of voltage to light.  I have also read that about green.  Somewhere, someone will write that it is the clear ones that take less.  I am using red for now.  It's hard to know what to believe sometimes.  If you can, order that carbon rod I posted the contact info for.  Your volts will go up, I promise you.  You should get 1.65-1.82 vdc or thereabouts.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 30, 2007, 07:13:23 AM
Hans's topic
Also, to everyone.  I have not used any resistors in my circuit.  I have some, many actually, but I would not know which one to use and, I don't think I need one.  This supercap discharges very slowly on its own.

@ Jeanna:

This is funny.  I have read that the red leds require the least amount of voltage to light.  I have also read that about green.  Somewhere, someone will write that it is the clear ones that take less.  I am using red for now.  It's hard to know what to believe sometimes.  If you can, order that carbon rod I posted the contact info for.  Your volts will go up, I promise you.  You should get 1.65-1.82 vdc or thereabouts.

Bill
Bill,

How would I go about finding Hans' topic? Do I look up Hans in some way? I am new to forums

Someday I will make sense of those notes on how big a resistor to use to get the charge to go out slowly. It was so difficult to get the information in the first place I am annoyed that I didn't take notes I can understand 3 years later. If I can figure out how to think about I will share it. It combines 2 very commonly used formulas that are rarely if ever put together.

You know, I was out this morning while the sun was shining and after those cement pots didn't work I didn't think about the carbon. It was to be next. I rolled some newsprint paper around my copper pipe (just as a form)  then filled it with carbon granules out of my old brita filter. I made 2 of these. so, I will give them a go next sunny hour. I also need a second mag block. Ultimately I will probably buy a carbon rod. Later

Also, I left the cement pots in the ground. Maybe they were too raw. Maybe they need to build a charge. 

THAT LIGHT IS STILL ON!

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 07:22:02 AM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3828.0/topicseen.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3828.0/topicseen.html)

@ Jeanna:

Above should be a link to it.  The way I find the topics is by selecting the "Home" button near the top left of the page.  Scroll down and you can see like the last 50 or so topics that have been posted in. It constantly changes.  Mostly, I just hit the "show replies" selection under my picture to check the topics I am interested in.  Good luck with your experiments.  How long has your light been on now???  These little things are impressive are they not?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 30, 2007, 07:37:06 AM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3828.0/topicseen.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3828.0/topicseen.html)

@ Jeanna:
  How long has your light been on now???  These little things are impressive are they not?

Bill

Thanks.

I last charged it at 5:53 german time and when I saw tha light was still bright it was I think 6: 13 so it was bright for about 20 minutes on a 30 second charge. I am very impressed.
Mostly I am impressed with the fact the cap can be charged and the light can shine at the same time. This means there is no need for fancy switching. Fancy switching is fine, but I don't want to be dependent on it. I have 18 or so LED lights that I use all the time. They are in every room. I use rechargeable AAA batteries which last anywhere from 1 week th one MONTH on a recharge. The difference between the week and the month light is merely the difference between a 33 ohm and a 47 ohm resistor.
I love these lights. You can't read by them but soon...

Thanks

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on December 30, 2007, 11:49:17 AM
Hi All - I found a link with some guy's theory that is fantastic: http://www.geocities.com/terella1/

Basically he took Faraday's paradox and thought about it - there are some strange unexplainable things that happen with a Faraday disc.  He then does a couple of other experiments and concludes from that something interesting: A magnetic field CANNOT BE ROTATED ON ITS POLAR AXIS.

Which means that although the earth is rotating, the magnetic field is not!  Therefore, telluric currents are nothing other than the current induced by the earth rotating around it's stationary polar magnetic axis!!  This bring a whole new light to the phenomena and may help us in understanding how to use it.  I'm gonna spend some serious time thinking about it.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 30, 2007, 02:00:11 PM
Hi All - I found a link with some guy's theory that is fantastic: http://www.geocities.com/terella1/

Basically he took Faraday's paradox and thought about it - there are some strange unexplainable things that happen with a Faraday disc.  He then does a couple of other experiments and concludes from that something interesting: A magnetic field CANNOT BE ROTATED ON ITS POLAR AXIS.

Which means that although the earth is rotating, the magnetic field is not!  Therefore, telluric currents are nothing other than the current induced by the earth rotating around it's stationary polar magnetic axis!!  This bring a whole new light to the phenomena and may help us in understanding how to use it.  I'm gonna spend some serious time thinking about it.

@ akashh

Thank you for posting that link.  I for one, find it of utmost importance.  It also confirms what I have been thinking about Stubblefield.  I believe he figured this out, so long ago.  I am also convinced that this is the only possible explanation for why his device worked.  He only tapped it through induction, and the electricity being generated in the coils were a result of a magnetic field moving over his coil.  This would allow him to tap that, through induction.

What we have been doing with the earth battery is tap the electrical current, inducted into the rotating Earth, in a moving magnetic field.  We will see, but it makes absolute and perfect sense.  And this is the way I will experiment, once I arrive back home.

The following segment is the part that speaks to me:

"For all those scientist, who searched for reasons of telluric currents and explanations of geodynamo process that is creating Earth's magnetic field, please take this fact in consideration. It is of utmost importance. Feel free to forget all theories and hypothesis you know. Just perform these five simple experiments and conclude by your own mind and reason.

To me conclusive experiment is more than any even so beautiful theory. Facts are facts.

"We do leave in sea of energy. Free energy. For if we would be able to construct a simple coil in which only one half would be sensitive to induction and other half noninductive, we could gain almost limitless quantities of electrical energy just from fact that we rotate and move in Earth's magnetic field.


Please do not confuse the rotation of magnetic poles around rotational axis of Earth. Earth's magnetic poles relation to any point on the globe does not change with the rotation of the planet. Position of poles rotate of course. But the magnetic field does not."

New Year's Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on December 30, 2007, 04:21:33 PM
Hi All - I found a link with some guy's theory that is fantastic: http://www.geocities.com/terella1/

Basically he took Faraday's paradox and thought about it - there are some strange unexplainable things that happen with a Faraday disc.  He then does a couple of other experiments and concludes from that something interesting: A magnetic field CANNOT BE ROTATED ON ITS POLAR AXIS.

Which means that although the earth is rotating, the magnetic field is not!  Therefore, telluric currents are nothing other than the current induced by the earth rotating around it's stationary polar magnetic axis!!  This bring a whole new light to the phenomena and may help us in understanding how to use it.  I'm gonna spend some serious time thinking about it.

Akashh,
Thanks for the link.  I did following experiment:
Put some iron filings on piece of paper,  put magnet under the paper rotated with fingers while holding the paper, rotated with drill.  The magnet filings didn't move!
It proves that magnetic field cannot be rotated on its polar axis.

Next project:  Stubblefield coil.  Last Friday I got iron and bare copper wire from McMaster.  All I need is to build some support  for spools.  I will use my lathe to do windings.

George

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 06:12:39 PM
@akashh:

Great find!  This theory makes a lot of sense to me as well. It would explain a lot of things. I am going to start reading up on induction.

@Bruce:

Forgive my ignorance but does the TPU (What exactly does TPU stand for? I have never seen that posted) work by induction?  If so, I believe you are at the right place here. And again, if so, maybe you can educate us on the basics of the TPU theory?  I have followed some of the TPU topics with great fascination but little understanding.

@ George:

Nice experiment!  All of this is telling us something. I think this theory might be why the cells do not appear to enjoy being wired in series.  Now if we use inductive coils, as Stubblefield appeared to use, I'll be they can be wired in series for as much energy as you want. This just gets better and better.

Bill

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 30, 2007, 06:53:24 PM
Bill when you get a chance could you tell us how long a 30 second charge on your capicator lasts for the led.. Meaning hook it to the carbon and mg and just let it sit for 30 seconds then see how long that will run your led .. Im trying to figure out the time differential of charge to last time off the earth battery not a double a or any thing like that. By finding this information it will let us build something to draw off some power and have the cap recharging.  Wether we build the mini tpu for this purpose a battery charger or just the camera flash circuit. As well a second idea ... if i were to use a small spark gap powered by dc motor ... and put that with a small primary coil.  Could i make some hf low voltage dc that could be stepped up tesla style meaning a nice secondary to capture the impulses.. ... That would seem to be an unlimited source of power....  All the spark gap does is set the timing for the pulsed dc if anyone is unfamiliar. Mr amos being the EE, Do you think this would be an good route to go?
                                                                                                           joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 30, 2007, 07:13:25 PM
Hi All - I found a link with some guy's theory that is fantastic: http://www.geocities.com/terella1/

Basically he took Faraday's paradox and thought about it - there are some strange unexplainable things that happen with a Faraday disc.  He then does a couple of other experiments and concludes from that something interesting: A magnetic field CANNOT BE ROTATED ON ITS POLAR AXIS.

Which means that although the earth is rotating, the magnetic field is not!  Therefore, telluric currents are nothing other than the current induced by the earth rotating around it's stationary polar magnetic axis!!  This bring a whole new light to the phenomena and may help us in understanding how to use it.  I'm gonna spend some serious time thinking about it.

G'day all,

This agrees with my findings on the Meyer apparatus.

"When you really look at it Meyer?s device looks very much like a Faraday disk except it is stationary.

Maybe in Meyer?s device the earth does the spinning for you.
 
You see, when you align the device north ? south, as you must, the earth?s spin is perpendicular to the magnetic flux and in line with the ?channel?, just like a Faraday disk spinning with the magnet!"


Page 30 Post 436 in this thread.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on December 30, 2007, 07:28:52 PM

Maybe in Meyer?s device the earth does the spinning for you.
 
Hans von Lieven

Hans,
I've been thinking for some time already and I want to build it.  However I hate to read patents.
George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 30, 2007, 07:35:26 PM
hey guys i did only a moments of experimenting but i have some results

i live north of atlanta GA, here my amprobe is sensitive enough to find that there is a small electrical charge in the air! not sure why thats happening since i thought it was a fluke and added a new battery it still doing it so i ran some base tests, yep a 9 volt battery is 9 volts! ok so i measured the copper and steel rods i aquired for free, (well thats just a guess of the metals)  i accidentally put them in the ground at a reverse polarity + is south, they are only 2 inches deep and not properly aligned, roughly north south. i am getting .6 volt and no amps. i checked and my new amprobe meter does read amps so i will try to rig a more proper setup later when its not raining. also for giggles i connected the 200 watt cap to it, no sparks :( so im guessing its not charged, but i will sacrifice my old amp meter to see the voltage later :-p   i have not checked for AC current yet. but im interested to hear if a bridge rectifier makes a difference on the battery :D 

i have not finished the tesla coil yet to test on the ground battery but will keep you posted on new results.

on a side note, i would say when we get something substantial, we should fax copies to the media and post it on various parts of the net! no doubt this over unity webside will want to make it front page news as well.  i like the idea of living without having to work from an invention but electricity should be free, or almost free at the very least. thats my idea about it.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 30, 2007, 07:45:21 PM
I agree totally artic knight,

                       When you find grandparents that have worked there whole lives and cant pay their heating bill and their rx's you start thinking fixing that scenario is more important that making money.. ya know.

Anyways i got similar readings with the steel doesent work well.. You need zinc or mg  Bill posted the chart with the values near the beginning of the thread.  The current will depend on your depth and distance from one another.  I cant believe your not even getting micro amps...  Recheck your connections.  Thanks
                                                                joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 30, 2007, 07:45:55 PM
Hans,
I've been thinking for some time already and I want to build it.  However I hate to read patents.
George

You do not need to read the patent George. Everything of importance in relation to this patent is in my post on page 30 in plain easily understood English with simple diagrams to illustrate its function and modern components.

Studying these old patents, or any type of patent, is a tedious matter. That is why I only take the essential elements and publish in a less cumbersome format.

If you have any questions just ask, either here in the forum or by dropping me a note.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 30, 2007, 08:29:18 PM

You do not need to read the patent George. Everything of importance in relation to this patent is in my post on page 30 in plain easily understood English with simple diagrams to illustrate its function and modern components.

Studying these old patents, or any type of patent, is a tedious matter. That is why I only take the essential elements and publish in a less cumbersome format.

If you have any questions just ask, either here in the forum or by dropping me a note.

Hans von Lieven

Yes, Hans you make them quite understandable. I thank you for that work.

I asked this qyestion the other day but no one has yet answered. I am wondering why the line from coiled magnet to coiled magnet MUST be  uninsulated? Does it become an antenna this way?

Thanks,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 30, 2007, 08:37:01 PM
The sun is shining so I will be brief.

Carbon brushes material is a suggestion made on the TT pyramid site as a source for carbon.

I've been wondering why it would not work to make a ferris wheel out of parallel caps with lights attached to each for a little draw. and movement. then charge up just one of them and leterrip. Don't you think there will be a magnetic field that moves around the ferris wheel growing each time? or maybe not growing because the lights would throw off some, but would the magnetic field allow the re-filling of the charge? or just a little from the earth battery.

My head is in a swirl with this.

I'm outside with my shovel.planting electrodes for spring fruit!  ;D

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 08:45:54 PM
@ Joe:

The results I posted somewhere earlier were from doing just that.  I want to do it again anyway, under more controlled conditions and pay more attention to the details this time.  Last time it ran for around 30 minutes reasonably brite, died down at about 45 minutes (not so bright) and was still illuminated at 1 hour but not much at all.  Let me do it again but it may not be as good as this time I would be using the carbon rod that was cut in half. (but burried deeper)  I guess I could tie both carbon rods together in paralell and go to my single, one only mag. bllock.  that would be interesting to try because with the two shorter carbon rod halves, there is more rod in the ground now than when full length. (when tied together.)  I am working on some paperwork here in my home office today but I need a break and will brave the cold to do a few experiments later this afternoon. I will post results.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 30, 2007, 08:52:14 PM
joe i believe both metal rods i have are covered in a anti corosion agent which may be stopping my amps, i swapped the poles and got the same reading no difference, granted i have not aligned them properly!  but no amps. the one rod is either copper or aluminium coated with a coper color.

ok so the magnetic field of the earth and the earth equals a faraday disk? sounds perfectly resonable. how can we tap this principal better?  i doubt copper coils suspended in air will do that well seems the earth is doing a much better job for us if you ask me.  perhaps we should combine the faraday principals with the earth battery principals? 

we know how a faraday disk works so my question since i joined this forum is what about plates instead of rods? according to science you get more current from a battery when there is more surface area on the electrodes so im thinking we need to play with plates now eh?  i have not probed for the best results from my rods yet but from what i gather from the work done here we are going to need to go deeper however not too deep, i believe those 8 foot poles at lowes would be the best but they would not lend them selfes well to being readjusted in the ground so one would have to get it right the first time.

hmm whats the best way to get your hands on a copper metal plate? guess im googleing

yea the steel might be bad even worse if aluminium is what i have for the other but its free and proves a valuable point to me :) now i know and i can hopefully use freebies to find better results without needing other metals just yet,
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 30, 2007, 09:01:37 PM
G'day Jeanna and all,

To answer your question, quite frankly, I do not know why Meyer insists on uninsulated iron wire. It was simply a specification stated in the patent that I took as read.

Only experiment will determine if it does make a difference using insulated iron wire. My feeling at this stage is that Meyer wanted as little interference with magnetic forces as possible. That is of course just an idea I have, not necessarily what he had in mind at all.

At this stage I feel I have taken the subject as far as theoretical considerations and research allows. It is now time to set up some experiments that will validate or invalidate the findings so far.

In my next essays I will show my idea of how such experiments should be set up and what they are supposed to determine. This will take a little time, but I am working on it. I have already started to procure the necessary materials since I want to run the experiments myself, perhaps with some of you joining in so we can compare results.

I love working with you all, you are good people and God willing we will get somewhere with this.

Greetings from Aussie,

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on December 30, 2007, 09:11:27 PM
I think that TPU stands for Toridal Power Unit,
not sure of the spelling
Sid
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 09:14:17 PM
@ Joe and all:

I just wired up the cell for the experiment Joe asked me to run. I will post those results shortly but first, I wanted to post my testing of the volts in this setup today.

As I explained about the carbon rod cut in half, I wired the cell as follows:

8.5 " long carbon rod (+) to the north wired to the other carbon rod 8.5" long (+) 3 feet to the east.
Magnesium block (-) to the south aligned ONLY with the left caron rod.

1.90 vdc
2.00 mA (Steady, not falling off like before!!)
3.2 vac

These are some pretty good numbers to start Joe's test.  I discharged the cap. Dead. I drained it by hooking my meter to it in the 200 mA setting and watched it drain down to 0 from 1.8 mA.

The test will be how long the led stays lit after a 30 second charge on the cell.  If that time is not very good, I will do longer charges and keep track of the results.  Man, it's a little chilly out there, but not too bad.

@ Hans:

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we are very lucky to have you working with us on this project.  Your research and insights have been invaluable.  I really look forward to working your experiments with you.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 30, 2007, 09:15:26 PM
ok i found out i am using galvanized steel and copper painted aluminum, so after some filing and 3-4 inch depth i have gotten .4-.6 volts at 1 miliamp  so if i remember right im operating at half to a third of what others have seen with better materials. i will try a cap to see what i can get i did not measure ac at this time but i did before i stripped the pipes and got .06 volt ac its raining here so hard to experiment but will do more later
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 30, 2007, 09:40:25 PM
Hi, I'm in from the rain for a minute,

A_K U think you are doing close to what I was. Do what Bill did. Get a magnesium fire brick, I found mine in the hardware store.  (The only reason I use the cu-zn is because it is such a sure connection and I know the base result.) for results get a carpenters pencil and a magnesium fire brick.

Quote
my question since i joined this forum is what about plates instead of rods?
I guess you have to try it. I have a copper plate that looks more like brass to me... You could get copper flashing for roofs. Maybe the hardware store has that too. or junk yard next to the mag wheels.

Thanks Hans. Yes, I too look forward to experimenting with your ideas.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 10:00:50 PM
@ All:

While I am waiting for my cap. to run down I will post a few pics.  I need to do this in several posts as when I attempt to post more than one, it does not appear to work.  I may be exceeding the file size.
This should be a picture of how the cell is wired for this experiment.  Not too clear (Lens was fogging a bit) but you can see the two carbon rods hooked together and the mag. block toward the bottom charging the circuit.


Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 10:08:46 PM
This should be a photo of the charged circuit sitting on my table in the dark.  I began the led light test at 2:39 Central time. (USA)  At 3:03 p.m. led is still lit but has gone down quite a bit.  I don't give it much longer.

@ Joe:

I went with a 5 minute charge as the 30 second charge did not get the capacitor charged up enough to fully light the led. So, we are looking at a 5 minute charge to run about 23 minutes or so, depending where you say the led is off.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 30, 2007, 10:09:32 PM
edit double post
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 30, 2007, 10:13:07 PM
Good deal bro.... Well consider this a half breakthrough ... this should confirm to any doubters out there..... that there's some real potential here.... Great work
                                                                                                              Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 10:15:53 PM
Sorry, I forgot to post the results after the charge.  The cell had:

1.8 vdc
2.0 mA

This was after charging the led circuit for 5 minutes.  A bit of a drop but not too bad.  The led was NOT connected in the circuit while charging the cap.

You should be able to see that here. The light that is reflecting is off the bottom of the cap.  The led + lead (red) was not connected to the circuit. The red jumper wires are off the carbon (+) and the blue jumper wire is off the mag. block,
(-)

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 10:26:23 PM
@ sid10:

Thanks, I was assuming it was something like that, but never really saw it explained.

@mramos:

You said you would really like to see an led lit up in the ground using two elements? (electrodes?)  Did you mean a picture of it?  Or, did you mean at your location?  I was going to hook the cap. back to the cell and fully charge it up.  I can tie in the led and take a photo of it for you.  I may be obtaining more mA than my meter is showing. (digital)  I dug my analog meter out but have not tested with it.  I will.  Also note I am not using a resistor, just the supercap. It definatley lights brighter using the supercap on the cell than without.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 10:54:23 PM
Sorry for all of the posts but, I have a little more info.

Hans suggested a while back to test using analog meter.  I have finally done that:

Side by side test of the cell in its current confiuration shows exactly the same on all three measurements.

1.8 vdc
3.2 vac
2.0 mA

Now, I have read about digital meters showing ac when none present. I was not sure about analog but I tested a "D" cell battery with both meters and they both read ac on it. Exactly the same.  mramos, what does this mean? I really wish I had a scope, or used Hans's idea of the audio amp. to check the secondary for and volts at all to prove/disprove ac.

I am attempting to fully charge the capacitor as I type this.  I am in typing where it is warm and almost time for a cold beer. (All these tests make me thirsty)

As far as the plates theory goes, some of the patents listed throughout the topic involved the use of plates.  IF one could find, and afford, carbon and magnesium plates, I am almost sure that, due to the increased surface area, all readings would be better. I would have a question after reading the post about the diurnal charecteristic properties of the telluric currents (mentioned in the patent that looked like a chain link fence) weither to install them horizonally (like some) or vertically. (like others)

I kind of like the picture of the led buring in the dark on my kitchen table. I may use that as my wallpaper on my desktop for a while.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on December 30, 2007, 11:03:13 PM
I was reading about NoPoPo cells which use carbon and magnesium.  They are getting somewhere around 500mah in there AA cells.  I wanna try these in plate form if I can find it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-activated_battery
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/peripherals/0,39029462,49292553,00.htm

I was also wondering since we can use copper as a positive electrode, does using copper wire connected to the negative electrode deter the flow somehow?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on December 30, 2007, 11:29:31 PM
I love working with you all, you are good people and God willing we will get somewhere with this.
Hans von Lieven

Hans, I am very thankful, that you are here.   I think with your help we can succeed.   Maybe you should setup a separate thread for Meyer device to replicate it (just a suggestion) Or if Joe has nothing against it we can run it in parallel with Earth Batteries here.
George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 11:38:36 PM
@ Freezer:

Interesting links.  Thanks. I am pretty sure these materials are available somewhere for a decent price.  We just need to find what industry uses them, and then find a good supplier. Example, the carbon rod I bought is a gouging rod used in the welding industry.  It was about 1/10 the price (about $20) than quotes I received on similar rods. I am in the process of finding some magnesium in different forms very cheap.  I know someone mentioned auto wheels but, they have to be an alloy as magnesium is way to soft for it to be pure in that application.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 30, 2007, 11:57:02 PM
New mA record!!!!

This will be hard to explain, but I will try.  I was just outside and got an idea to tie my two 12" long zinc coated spikes into the cell.  The spikes are still in the ground from other experiments and are on the south end, spaced about 3 feet apart.  So, I had on the north side (+) two carbon rods spaced three feet apart.  South side, polar aligned with the left carbon rod, magnesium block. (-) And now, added two zinc spikes which were jumped together. Oh, and north and south electrodes seperated by about 5 feet.

1.45 vdc
3.8 mA and steady!!

Volts went down but mA went up to a new personal record.

Sorry for the multiple posts but I wanted to announce this.  Some progress made here today.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Ariochdm on December 30, 2007, 11:59:29 PM
Well I took the first steps towards replicating the Meyer Absorber Patent.  I used the simpler form that Hans von Lieven had posted on this thread.  The one that uses two horeshoe magnets.  Initially I have only done a very quick and dirty test of the setup and I dont have all of the components yet to complete as near a match to his original setup.  I have two 6 inch horseshoe magnets (not exactly what Meyer's was using these are steel and each end features a super-strong Neodymium magnet) and two zinc plates.  I dont have any iron wire, but Im going to order some.  At this point all I have is magwire and soldering wire (lead based).  The magnets were only about a foot distance from each other.  The zinc plates were were a little longer than the magnet and would stick out past the ends of the horseshoe so at some point Im going to try cutting them down so they are flush to see if this has any affect either.  The experiment was done on the 2nd floor of a house so they were not in contact with the earth ground.  Anyhow when I tried the magwire I was only seeing around 5-6mvDC and I was not able to see any amps.  When I used the soldering wire however the voltage jumped up to 25mvDC but still no amps.  So at the moment there appears to be something to it, but the question is can amps be produced as well as volts?  I'll be interested in seeing once the iron wire arrives it makes any difference and I may purchase a different type of magnet as well later on.  I was having trouble finding any magnets of the type listed in the patent.

I've been replicating the earth battery experiments as well and finding similiar results to what most have posted (stable voltage but no apparent amperage).  However I see in the past few pages it looks like some of you might be getting amps out of the earth batteries now so I will have to go back through and re-read how your doing it.

Regards,

David
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 12:56:23 AM
@mramos:

When I say it is brighter with the cap. here is what I mean.  If you just take an led and hook it to the cell, it lights to a brightness level we can cal "x".  When you use the cap. and do the same, the brightness level of the led is near 0, at first.  But then, and this is what I have been seeing here, it begins to light and almost right away the level is maybe x +2, then +3 etc., untill it is about 1.5 or so times the brightness level with no cap.  This is why I have been saying that the cap. charges while the led is lit.  I was very surprised by this. And, if you just charge the cap. off of the cell for a while and then disconnect it, hook up the led, very bright, although probably not maximum rated brightness, but still, to me very bright.

Yes, $20 for the rod is expsensive but that is nothing compared to the prices I was getting before someone posted on here about gouging rods.  Possibly there is another industry that uses truckloads of these things and we can get them even cheaper? Like Radio Shack, for example, I paid $5 for ONE led and later bought 30 from China for $8 which included shipping!  We just have to know where to buy is all.  Some people are speaking of uses copper plates.  OK wait until they see the price for a copper plate 1' x1' x 1/4" thick.  I'll bet it is well over $100 or more.

The more people that are working on this, the better prices we will find I think.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on December 31, 2007, 01:04:24 AM

Yes, $20 for the rod is expsensive but that is nothing compared to the prices I was getting before someone posted on here about gouging rods. 
Bill

Bill,
from McMaster:  12" long x 3/4" Diameter - 5 pieces cost $12.70  ( =$2.54 each)+ shipping :)

George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 01:23:31 AM
@ George:

Excellent!!!  Are these bare or coated with copper?  Even if coated with copper, it would be easier to strip off at those prices.  Way to go George!  That's exactly what I was talking about with everyone working on this together.  Now, can we find some decent magnesium rods or tubes or blocks or plates?  Thanks George.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 31, 2007, 01:29:04 AM
@mramos:

When I say it is brighter with the cap. here is what I mean.  If you just take an led and hook it to the cell, it lights to a brightness level we can cal "x".  When you use the cap. and do the same, the brightness level of the led is near 0, at first.  But then, and this is what I have been seeing here, it begins to light and almost right away the level is maybe x +2, then +3 etc.,Bill
Bill,
Thanks for that.  I wanted to ask this. I have my set up outside now. The cells are too close together but it is raining so I am under the tree. so, I am watching the meter which has been steadily rising from 0.041v to 1.002v so far.  the light is connected to the set up in series and in parallel to the double cap.   So, from a totally discharged cap, does it do this rise for a while? It has been 5+ minutes. to get to 1v. I disturbed the set up and it began again. I think that is strange.
I don't register any mA. at all so far. I think this is right. how could there be any mA if nothing is happening beyond charging the caps?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 31, 2007, 01:37:42 AM
Mramos
the LED is in parallel to the cap. This you are seeing is astonishing. The cap can charge and the light can shine at the same time. You can check this out with a 3 volt battery inside. Wire a LED and a cap in parallel to each other; then charge them for 40 seconds. you will see something you were not taught about.!!
check it out. It makes me smile- even though my hands are really cold :D

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: georgemay on December 31, 2007, 02:17:59 AM
Now, can we find some decent magnesium rods or tubes or blocks or plates?  Thanks George.

Bill

Ebay   -  Buy Now  # 120203082134  -  AZ31B Magnesium Plate .250" x 2.5" x 9"  $4.54 + $8.40SHP
there are some bigger more expensive plates.  Search ebay for magnesium

George
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 31, 2007, 02:28:13 AM
First to mramos:
 please try this. put the neg of the LED to the neg of the cap and charge. you need to use more than 1.5v for most LED's to light up. the forward voltage is the way it is called. unless I am wrong. Don't worry about 3 volts or use a slightly used pair of AA batteries. I have been using 2.85 volts for mine. NiMH rechargeables is what I use and there has been NO problem.
If you study Bills picture from an older closeup picture you will see that it is in parallel. anyway go for it.

Today's report.

Raining so I used the under the tree spot. leads were about 18" (1/2 meter) apart.
Carbon pencil wired to caps and LED then to Mag block.

With one set of green light and caps after 45 minutes voltage rose to 1.002v

with other set of red LED and 2 caps all in parallel, voltage started at 1.3v and in 10 min rose to 1.5v

(but it was too dark to see and just touching this arrangement made it drop to zero again when it then began to rise again. So, I stopped for the night.)

I never had any amperage. always zero.

Inside the first set of caps with green led was at 0.53v after being charged 45 minutes; and the second red was at 0.39v after 10 minutes.

more later,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on December 31, 2007, 02:32:14 AM
@ Freezer:

Interesting links.  Thanks. I am pretty sure these materials are available somewhere for a decent price.  We just need to find what industry uses them, and then find a good supplier. Example, the carbon rod I bought is a gouging rod used in the welding industry.  It was about 1/10 the price (about $20) than quotes I received on similar rods. I am in the process of finding some magnesium in different forms very cheap.  I know someone mentioned auto wheels but, they have to be an alloy as magnesium is way to soft for it to be pure in that application.
Bill

An interesting related article on magnesium anodes.
http://www.anodesystems.com/pro5.html

@Jenna, are you sure your meter is not blown.  You should get current from a 1 galvanized nail, and a piece of copper.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 31, 2007, 03:11:26 AM
@Mramos ;) I will make sure not to split em up

bills picture of what he has may be deceiving if you don't read his post carefully ... He Connects the led in parallel wtih the cap and it yeilds a brighter result .... not in series... Im next to sure of this.. jenna was just giving you an example... MY point is the larger the resivor ... cap the better results we seem to be getting with a constant load even tho a small light ... it doesent logically make sense
                                                                         Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on December 31, 2007, 04:11:25 AM
@Mramos
    Thanks for the quick reply. I was just touching on the point that if we hook the led directly to the ground electrodes and it glows a little, why does it glow brighter if we add a cap in parallel to that arrangment >? should make no difference. Thats the answer were after .
Thanks for the advice as well we all appreciate it.
                                                                                                       Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 31, 2007, 05:14:37 AM
after watching a movie i had gotten a few mental pictures. someone once posted here about what materials and methods were available to the people in the older days and why did they have better luck? 

Hans maybe you can help most of all with this.

talking from vague memories please correct me if im wrong, in the older days i believe they operated from easily smelted items such as copper and iron.  in their crude smelting processes piles of charcoal or regular coal would be topped with iron or copper ore and set ablaze!  this yielded a high carbon iron alloy known as tool steel or pig iron. pig iron is usually used for iron that has so much carbon and impurity in it that the outer "skin" of the iron is nothing more than carbon!. this is how im sure the older spikes were used for grounding, as they would be easy to cast and as they hardend the excess carbon (steel doesnt like too much carbon) would bleed out forming a skin.   

also at thier disposal was the copper and teslas wonderful coils, im sure there was some old forms of coils being used on the telegraph lines right?  so if this is true then i can only assume we are indeed getting ac or a form of it and through these old "transformers" they were adding voltage to the lines,  i read a report i think it was posted here how after a while no more batteries were needed for the telegraph only ground spikes.

hope this makes some maddening sense.  i think they used 2 steel or iron which happens to be magnetic ;) rods coated in carbon essentially miles appart :D 

i would imagin these spikes would be very similar to rail road spikes? maybe square one inch thick and a foot long.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 31, 2007, 05:33:30 AM
@Mramos
    Thanks for the quick reply. I was just touching on the point that if we hook the led directly to the ground electrodes and it glows a little, why does it glow brighter if we add a cap in parallel to that arrangment >? should make no difference. Thats the answer were after .
Thanks for the advice as well we all appreciate it.
                                                                                                       Joe

@ Joe

My guess is because the cap is perhaps filtering the "ac" picked up and this is being add to the output power.  Which brings me to my next point.  ;)

@ Bill

The simplest way to explain induction, is a magnetic field, "inducing" current into a wire.  The big magnet makes makes the electrons that are on the surface of the wire, move.  This can be accomplished one of several ways.  Moving a coil, through vibration, (or rotation) in a magnetic field.  Or moving a magnetic field over stationary copper wire.  The TPU is a bit of both.  It has rotating magnetic fields that induce DC current into the collectors, with a little AC overriding and it has a lot of coil vibration.  If you want to know more about the TPU, go to the thread, and the link that says "Start Here".  But be warned, it is like starting a very loooooong game of Monopoly, it just keeps going!  LOL

Stubblefield's earth battery was not a battery.  It was an induction coil, with a secondary wound on top for greater gain and increased voltage, IMHO.  He was probably using the Telluric current, but also, the earth's magnetic field.  So, how did we get to the earth's magnetic field?  It is part of the cause for the Telluric current, as well as lightning.

Now if that very smart theory is to be believed, which I do, it would explain a whole lot.  So we have Earth (induction coil) moving inside of a magnetic field.  Now this is where it gets tricky and we have to use our brains.

The earths magnetic field strength is only .5 gauss.  .5 gauss is 4 field lines per inch.  This is very weak and bad news.  BUT there is some good news.  The earth's rotation, moving in this magnetic field is rotating at 465.11 meters per second, which is about .46 Kilometers per second.  And it is moving all of the time.  (Obviously!)

The induction coil has to be designed properly, so that the 4 field lines per inch cut perpindicular to the coils to induce current.  We need surface area in our coils, low resistance and Iron in the middle.  Similar to Stubblefield.  If we can get 1 coil to produce some small wattage, then we can put as many of those in the North/South magnetic line, wire them in series, parallel or what ever.  The perhaps will also pick up the Telluric current and that too would be added to the output.

When I get home, (Late next week) my first goal is to repeat your progress on the earth battery to keep my oscillating micro tpu running 4 ever.  During this time I will attempt to build an induction coil, that I am even now studying and planning out.  I also am going to use my then forever running micro tpu oscillator, to pulse a different type of coil arrangement, looking for more power.  That is my game plan for now.

The advantage I see, if we get induction current out of the earth, is the ability to pull out as much power as we want.  I am also still interested in seeing what happens if we smack the earth battery electrodes with some higher voltage!  (Besides causing all of the earthworms to the top of the soil.  ;) )

Lastly, Bill, I would suggest going to Radio Shack and for $2.00 USD purchase a full bridge rectifier, to turn any AC into DC on your output.  It is simple to use and the diagram on the back of the package tells you how.  This way you will be measuring all of your output as DC and it will be more accurate.

I hope this explanation has helped.  Great experiments and great news about the increased amperage.  A little drawing of that new circuit would help!  Thanks!

Happy New Years to All!!


Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 05:45:18 AM
@ mramos and all:

Did you not see my just recent post about the 3.8mA I got this afternoon?  That's almost twice what I had before.  Not a bad increase.  The led is at about 75% brightness as you can see from the pictures I posted of this test.  I do not short out the cap.  I just place the annode of the led back into the circuit.  Let it sit on my table and after a 5 minute charge on the cell outside (after being dead shorted and tested at 0) burned almost 30 minutes. This feels to me like we are getting somewhere. This led is just as bright, if not brighter, than any of my red led keychain lights that I use in my business.  I can read with this in a dark room by shining on a page of writing. I realize it is not 100% but, I have no way to measure that.  The led is rated at 20mA (maximum) and I am reading almost 1/4 of that, but, I think there is more than I am able to read here, or it would not be near so bright.  Would you agree?  It would not be pulsing off and on at 60hz or whatever hz when running on just the cap would it?  This led is brighter than my neighbors solar garden light, I just don't know how much jusice is really out there.  George priced the carbon rods atlike $2.50 ea. for 3/4 dia. from Mcmasters.  Check an earlier post, you can save some money.

Series or parallel?  That is the question.  I thought the capacitor was wired in series but I am not sure now that there is a question. It's all just positive to positive and neg. to neg. (see photo)  If this is different, please tell me. the only confusing thing about the photo is the copper wire that goes to nowhere.  That is my mechanical switch that I close to the + side of the led to complete the circuit. I hope this helps.  All I know is I started with .85vdc and have 1.9. I started with .5mA and now have 3.8mA.  If we can keep this up, we will get there. (the blue wire is-, the red wire is+)

Bill

Darn it.  It says I have already submitted my post and I did not!  I changed the name of the picture so this would not happen and...oh well.?????
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 31, 2007, 06:16:35 AM
Thanks Bill,
Great work!
I (I was too busy with my own documentation to stop and reply)
so the line of electrodes went from N to S 2 graphite rods linked -1  Mag block - 2 zn spikes linked together?

It is so brilliant and so out of the box. Bravo.

I will replicate with my materials in a couple of days. Hopefully it will be clear on tues.

Happy New Year Everyone

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 06:20:42 AM
@ Jeanna:

Thank you, and Happy New Year to you as well!

@ Bruce:

Thank you for your explanation.  Here is yet another very crude drawing of todays cell arrangement.  Please feel fee to ask any questions as this may be the single worst drawing yet.

HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone!!!

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 31, 2007, 06:28:14 AM
bill i noticed you are using png picture format, this is a relatively uncompressed and very large format. try opening your pictures and resaving them as .jpg  this will drastically cut the file size of the pictures and you should be able to post a couple (if the forum permits) in one posting.i seen one picture at 3 meg in here, jpg could reduce it 6 times to .5 meg.

to the person attempting some coils, i have seen some diagrams of flat coil tesla coils, i wonder if that would perform better than the wire wound around an iron core?  if it was bare wire and wound flat it would be a large copper plate sort of speak and would conduct electricity like our pipes is but also tap into the magnetic field perhaps? it would most likely do best burried as ours is.

my replication of a tesla which i will use with my iron pipe is using very fine wire and wound around a wooden pole roughly 1/4 inch thick, its tedious but i think it will produce a wonderful antenna type as tesla was famous for, and i think it may be directly based with the earth batteries and currents, i think it may let us draw more current but we will see what the tests show.  at this time im mostly playing with the ground poles as the others have done :)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 06:40:32 AM
@ Artic KNight:

Thanks for the advice but, I just checked the properties of my pictures and they are saved as jpegs. They originally come out of the camera as bitmap which this site does not accept so now I save them all as jpeg.  Why would this change when uploading????

@ All:

I was just outside looking at the cell in the dark.  A couple of things.  First, I just remembered that when I first tested with the arrangment as seen in my crude drawing posted earlier, a 6" long earthworm came up out of the ground about 5" from my magnesium block like his ass was on fire! I didn't think they could move that fast.  Then, about 2 seconds later, a 3" long centipede came up a few inches away.  What does this mean?  Or just coincidence?

One big question I have is why did my mA increase when I am tieing my electrodes together in what is basically a parallel arrangement? (2 on the +, 3 on the -)  I have one idea.  as we have guessed, amps I believe are tied to SURFACE AREA.  I think these tests make a good case for it.  What do you think?  Only thing that does not fit is the volts went DOWN using this setup like you would expect in series.  Very strange.  does this have something to do with why the earth battery cells do not like series?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 06:47:08 AM
@ Artic Knight:

I just checked the pictures as posted here and they say jpeg.  But, I checked the photo as posted on page 42 and it says PNG. I checked the same photo in my pictures and properties says jpeg.  This is weird.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 31, 2007, 06:48:11 AM
@ Jeanna:

Thank you, and Happy New Year to you as well!

@ Bruce:

Thank you for your explanation.  Here is yet another very crude drawing of todays cell arrangement.  Please feel fee to ask any questions as this may be the single worst drawing yet.

HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone!!!



@ Bill,

Thank you for the drawing.  It would appear that you have wired your Earth battery in parallel.  This would explain the increase in amperage, and is very good news.  It shows proof of concept to increase power output.  It should let you wire in series also, then, but if not, it is simple to turn amps back to more voltage.  By looking at your picture I see three Cathode electrodes (negatives, your Mg and 2 Zn)  A simple and easy experiment would be to add three or four more Zinc cathodes, and see if you continue to see more amperage.  Of course, true parallel is to increase the number of carbon rods accordingly. 

In the original dry cell battery, the zinc is normally the anode (positive) and the carbon and magnesium was combined for the cathode (negative).

What are your present ground conditions?  On a scale of say, 1 being dessert and 10 being mud with standing water on it.

Lastly, what is the PH of your soil?  This could also have a positive affect, if your soil is acidic. (Like mine is back home.  ;D )

Thanks!

Bruce

@ Artic KNight:

Thanks for the advice but, I just checked the properties of my pictures and they are saved as jpegs. They originally come out of the camera as bitmap which this site does not accept so now I save them all as jpeg.  Why would this change when uploading????

@ All:

I was just outside looking at the cell in the dark.  A couple of things.  First, I just remembered that when I first tested with the arrangment as seen in my crude drawing posted earlier, a 6" long earthworm came up out of the ground about 5" from my magnesium block like his ass was on fire! I didn't think they could move that fast.  Then, about 2 seconds later, a 3" long centipede came up a few inches away.  What does this mean?  Or just coincidence?

One big question I have is why did my mA increase when I am tieing my electrodes together in what is basically a parallel arrangement? (2 on the +, 3 on the -)  I have one idea.  as we have guessed, amps I believe are tied to SURFACE AREA.  I think these tests make a good case for it.  What do you think?  Only thing that does not fit is the volts went DOWN using this setup like you would expect in series.  Very strange.  does this have something to do with why the earth battery cells do not like series?

Bill

EDIT:
Bill, it means the earthworm and centipede feel the electrons moving and they want out of the way!  LOL  Have none of you guys ever pulsed the ground after wetting it to get worms to the top to grab and fish with?   ;D  City Dwellers!  ;)

EDIT 2:
Bill, parallel increases amperage, and series increases voltage.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 31, 2007, 06:57:31 AM
earth worms will jump out of the ground like that if there is a current run through it. so my question to you is was this earth worm between the poles?  you must be drawing the current and because its now moving through the earth instead of standing still that excited the worm. 

i wanted to note something i might not have mentioned from my sand battery experiments.  when i made a battery mixture, sand water and salt with the poles inserted, it started to generate a low current that gradually grew, if i jumped it off with a battery it started high and gradually went down.

i believe this is due to the particles in the ground need to be aligned for conducting or something, they eventually find a happy medium and stay there until the energy is depleated and that happy medium would be somewhere between the starting current and the charged current.  i will try tomarrow to get my poles properly aligned and see what happens when i run a charge with my portable car starter :D should see some worms hehehehe. 

on a side note, get a hand crank generator and 2 skinny long metal ground inserts and you can scare dozens of worms out of the ground, good for fishing so you dont have to tote them around, just get them from the river bank. essential for every outdoorsman kit.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 07:09:41 AM
@ Bruce:

on your scale, I would say about 6.5 to 7.0.  Pretty wet.  I have seen where my volts increase when it is more dry than it is now. I have no idea what the ph is at this time.  It rained a couple of days ago.  I knew volts or amps could drive worms up, which is why I noticed.  I just didn't think we were getting anywhere near enough for them to feel, maybe we are. I would love to drive them ALL up!!! Ha ha. (Makes me feel like a mad scientist) I also knew that parallel boosted amps. but did not know it also cut volts. (Ohm's law?) Yes, I guess it is.  I can be dumb, sorry.

Sounds like Artic Knight is really going to boost his cell.  I can't wait to hear the results.  Good luck with that. I still want to try something similar with either static like Bruce suggested (Jeanna's method seems easiet) and or some other "high voltage" method.

I have a few other crazy things I want to try when I can.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 31, 2007, 07:35:53 AM
@ Bruce:

on your scale, I would say about 6.5 to 7.0.  Pretty wet.  I have seen where my volts increase when it is more dry than it is now. I have no idea what the ph is at this time.  It rained a couple of days ago.  I knew volts or amps could drive worms up, which is why I noticed.  I just didn't think we were getting anywhere near enough for them to feel, maybe we are. I would love to drive them ALL up!!! Ha ha. (Makes me feel like a mad scientist) I also knew that parallel boosted amps. but did not know it also cut volts. (Ohm's law?) Yes, I guess it is.  I can be dumb, sorry.

Sounds like Artic Knight is really going to boost his cell.  I can't wait to hear the results.  Good luck with that. I still want to try something similar with either static like Bruce suggested (Jeanna's method seems easiet) and or some other "high voltage" method.

I have a few other crazy things I want to try when I can.

@ Bill,

Thanks for the wetness reading.  Parallel should not cut volts from what you had.  We are trying to increase over all power (amps x volt = watts) not transform.  I wonder what would happen if you added a third anode (+) to the two.  This would give you three and three.  Perhaps your volts would be back up if it is balanced, but unknown.

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 07:43:06 AM
@ Bruce:

That's what confused me.  Volts down from 1.9 to 1.4 but mA up from 2.19 to 3.8.  I don't have any more carbon but, if I can get some money, I want to order some more rods from where Geaorge said. (McMasters) About 1/10 the price I paid!!  I think you might be correct about the balance 3+3 instead of 2+3. I would have thought all would have gone up a bit. Many experiments to do but I think with this increase, there may not be a limit like some have said early on. I want to max out both mA and volts and then...move into coils.  This is going to be fun!!!!!!!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 31, 2007, 08:09:07 AM
@ Bruce:

That's what confused me.  Volts down from 1.9 to 1.4 but mA up from 2.19 to 3.8.  I don't have any more carbon but, if I can get some money, I want to order some more rods from where Geaorge said. (McMasters) About 1/10 the price I paid!!  I think you might be correct about the balance 3+3 instead of 2+3. I would have thought all would have gone up a bit. Many experiments to do but I think with this increase, there may not be a limit like some have said early on. I want to max out both mA and volts and then...move into coils.  This is going to be fun!!!!!!!!!

Bill

Hey Bill,
My last post of the night. ;)
1.9 volts x 2.19 mA =0.004161 watts

1.4 volts x 3.8 mA = 0.005320 watts

Watts is total power.  As long as we are increasing that number, we are in good shape!

Good night,
Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 31, 2007, 08:14:20 AM
G'day all,

Try this for size:

You?ll find out that earth batteries work in a very different way that

typical chemical reaction. When I began my testing (using dissimilar metals) I decided to separate the plates, zinc & copper, by a distance of thirty-two feet. The soil was BONE DRY as we were in a drought. The plates worked equally well whether placed next to each other and wetted or thirty-two feet apart in BONE DRY earth.

They will also work if made from similar plate material. Thirty two feet is far too distant to maintain ion stripping as in a standard chemical battery. This is generally how I know whether or not someone is talking "hands on" or "blowing smoke". You certainly CAN cause a chemical reaction with moist earth and dissimilar plates, but the Earth Battery effect transcends standard chemical ion stripping theories.

Try your own experiments and you?ll see!

-------------------------------end of email---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again this is nothing new. Poor soil conditions result in a difference of potential. This is why in communications one has to run ground tests. Also another reason some places has to put in a ground field.

-------------------------------end of email---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I wonder if depending on your soil if two dissimilar materials can be

put in the soil and the chemical reaction between the two would

produce a small voltage? But can enough be made to be useful if this

is possible.

    *
    * Firstly, ZINC is not hard to come by at all. Any "galvanized" sheet metal
    * is zinc coated and available in hardware stores and roofing supply stores,
    * metal siding suppliers, etc. You can also find large sheets of copper at
    * the same suppliers. If you wish to supplement a chemical reaction, pour
    * liquid bleach over the area of your EB.
    *
    * Excepting minor diurnal fluctuations, my Earth Batteries are quite stable thru 4
    * seasons. I am making use of the "power" as we speak! I live on natural
    * energy, the nearest power lines being ? mile away. As far as
    * configuration, place them as close to a tree as you can if possible,
    * experiment with different configurations. I have found the greatest
    * potential by establishing the plates at right angle vectors. I have used
    * several combinations, copper, zinc zinc, copper zinc, and have found
    * NO difference of potential! But then I?m not trying to re-invent the wheel
    * by using the earth as a chemical battery, I?m trying to attract and utilize
    * the subtle energies found in all of nature.


found on :  http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/earthbatteries.htm

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 04:35:28 PM
@ Bruce:

Thanks for the information.  Wow, that is lower watts than I thought. Heading the right way but, I never calculated the watts before.  and yes, I agree, power is everything.  So, as long as watts are going up, it does not matter about anything else. Great point.

@ mramos:

Again, forgive my ignorance, but I was looking over some of my electronics textbooks and I agree that my "circuit" is in series.  So, when I remove it from the cell and connect the red + lead to the + anode of the led it then becomes parallel? I am not arguing as I have no knowledge foundation here from which to do so. Can you elaborate a little on that?  I know this should not be "Basic, elementary electronics 101" but I am missing something here on this as I think some others may be as well as there has been a little debate (debate is good) over which is which in this circuit.  I would greatly appreciate that. I see now from Bruce's post that the watts are still very low here.  My point was that at least we are going the proper direction, we just have a lot longer way to go than I had thought.  I am liking the induction coil cells ideas more and more.  I still think it is good that we approached it this way because if not, we might have built an improper induction cell and got .25 vdc and thought that was good.  I mean, the poor fellows over at the pyramid experiments are dealing in milliVOLTS and are happy when they get some.  I am still puzzled by the possible (definite in your case) ac component here.  Still a lot to be sorted out.  Also, why is my cell arrangement as now being used (as per my very crude sketch posted a bit earlier) not in parallel?  Would it be if I had added another carbon rod to the mix?  I guess I am missing more basic information than I thought.  Thanks for your help on this project.

@ Hans:

Another excellent find!  So, this guy is running off the grid using similar techniques to ours?  Stuff like this is good as it gives me hope.  and he does not appear to be using coils.  Hmmmm.....Great post!

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 31, 2007, 04:49:43 PM
I'm going to post a drawing of the circuits that I we are talking about. I hope it is legible and small enough. I go to the co op today so I can not keep on it, but

 I am asking which one is series and which is parallel. I have been calling #1 the series and #2 the parallel.

The calculations for caps are opposite those for resistors so I may be calling it the wrong thing. mramos please clarify this for me and/or all of us.

thanks,

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on December 31, 2007, 05:52:25 PM
#1 is a series C R LED cap resistor and LED

#2 is a parallel cap(s) and LED.  So if you had two 1F caps, you have 2F in parallel with the LED.

Hope that helps. 

Yes, it helps a lot. It is how I have been thinking. So, now that it is clear I will quote myself.

Quote
I've been wondering why it would not work to make a ferris wheel out of parallel caps with lights attached to each for a little amperage draw and movement. then charge up just one of them and leterrip (=let her rip, means let it get started).  Don't you think there will be a magnetic field that moves around the ferris wheel growing each time? or maybe not growing because the lights would throw off some, but would the magnetic field allow the re-filling of the charge? or just a little from the earth battery?

I need to buy more caps for this but I have been working on this idea for a long time (since 1991 or so) My electronics teacher was so annoyed by my persistance he started to give me distance. He did admit that this had never occured to him (I mean drawing #1) so after I had made that first series cap-LED- resistor circuit I put it away .

It was when Bill created it in parallel and it worked, that I recognised it and the whole thread heard my excitement.

a magnetic field that moves around in a ring but with no moving parts sounds like a thing that can be tweeked to make power. Maybe not. I will try it myself and see. But I am a biologist. I don't really know how to make a generator or a motor. I also will not mention it again in this thread unless someone else wants to talk about it since we are working with the earth battery.

Again, mramos, thanks for your help.

jeanna

Oh, please tell me the name or web link to that capacitor company down the street from you. Mine cost me $3.50 in bulk.  -thanks
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 08:08:21 PM
@ All:

Here are a few photos of my latest wild idea. I am low on funds and I have to use stuff I have lying around so, I made this "array" of sorts from 49 16D x 3.5 " long galvanized nails.  I am going to add this to the minus side of the cell and see if mA goes up a little more.  I know I need to add also to the + side for best result probably, but, the only thing I have for that is my carpenter's pencil sharpened on both ends.  I may add that to the mix as well if I can find another jumper long enough.  I made the photo size smaller and it is in jpeg, but may not upload in jpeg.  We will see.  I will let you all know what happens. (Looks like a lot of surface area there so, who knows?)

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 31, 2007, 08:14:39 PM
Sorry, I see it still uploaded as a png!!  I have no idea why, if anyone knows, please tell me. On my hardrive-properties it is jpg.  I saved it as jpg.  Many of my other photos uploaded as jpg.  So what is going on???

The top end of the nails are hot glued to help hold them in place while soldering.  I left the tie-wraps on for added strength.  The connector ring is made same as my other ones and is spot soldered three places around the o.d.  I will bury this in the garden today and report back...maybe nothing...maybe something.  It's all I have at the moment.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 31, 2007, 09:44:49 PM
I have noticed that too Bill,

The overunity server will not accept .jpeg files, it will accept .jpg

Must be one of those server programmes that can only handle three digit file extensions.

Hans von Lieven

EDIT: you have uploaded a file with the extension .JPG It does not like that, should be .jpg (no capital letters) The server that handles my website goes apeshit if it encounters capital letters in a file extension.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on December 31, 2007, 11:50:03 PM
guys i just purchased from radio shack a 4 amp 50 volt ac-dc converter i used it on my cell and here are the results,

my cell is currently producing .25 volt at no amps. was a bit higher during the rain at .6 volt and .1 miliamp, after attatching the bridge rectifier it dropped to .017 volt and no amps. not sure what happened here but just something to be considered, the rectifier was less than 3 bux at rat shack
 
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 01, 2008, 12:40:35 AM
Hi All,
I may have figured a way to add to the battery series-like. I made some cement pots the other day. In a hurried cursory trial with clips and raindrops I got nothing. Today, with the sun shining I did the following.
I linked up Cu In the ground to Zn in a pot then Cu in a pot to Zn in the ground.
I have 2 angles that are better than anything else and I used them. They are N-S and NE-SW
 |_
    |
Maybe that set of lines will show it. I wanted to have a little separation hence the cement pots and I also wanted to be in different magnetic lines if indeed there are such distinct lines of path from n to s.

Taking just the first N-S leg Cu to zn in a pot the reading is 0.838VDC and 0.9 VAC

the next leg is 2 pipes in pots and there is nothing today. They are both in pots SW-NE.
The last leg is Cu in a pot and Zn in the ground N-S .
Now, all four of these pipes give a reading of  0.934VDC and 1.2 VAC !

So, it isn't much of an increase but it is .1VDC increase and 0.3VAC increase. both increased.
no amps. Maybe I am doing something wrong I have never seen amps.

I will go back later to see if 4 pots in a row will still short out like the other day. I want to repeat this and separate the placement factor from the separation factor.

Another experiment I ran was inspired by Bill's from yesterday:

I had Carbon to Mg running N-S. It gave me a reading of 1.64VDC  0.0VAC
Then I added the caps and LED and the voltage dropped the way it did yesterday under the tree.
 It dropped to 0.392VDC   0.2VAC.
Without changing anything else, I pushed a deeply sunken cu pipe into the Carbon to touch it and
the readings changed to  0.678VDC  0.7VAC
Pretty low, but  the DC voltage went up by 73% and  AC voltage went up 3 1/2 times.

Joe, You are quite right to add the ac voltage. it seems to be showing something.??

I'm glad the co-op didn't need me today!

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 01, 2008, 12:48:51 AM
guys i just purchased from radio shack a 4 amp 50 volt ac-dc converter i used it on my cell and here are the results,

my cell is currently producing .25 volt at no amps. was a bit higher during the rain at .6 volt and .1 miliamp, after attatching the bridge rectifier it dropped to .017 volt and no amps. not sure what happened here but just something to be considered, the rectifier was less than 3 bux at rat shack
 

What cell is that?
I looked back a little.
Would you please put it all together when you report? It makes reading the reports much easier.
Thanks,
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on January 01, 2008, 12:58:29 AM
Hello everyone,
The following photos are from this afternoon. Could someone PLEASEE help me to decifer what they mean?
I think this one says that I have 956 millivolts.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on January 01, 2008, 01:07:36 AM
Does this one say .95 volts DC? or almost 1 volt
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on January 01, 2008, 01:10:44 AM
almost certian this is 1.3 volts AC
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on January 01, 2008, 01:20:55 AM
Not sure what this means,
All test were taken by switching the meter without changing anything else. The probes were installed about 16 feet apart in fairly moist soil in the back yard. probes are copper coated carbon in the north and plain steel on the south end.
Hope someone can help.
Thanks in advance
Sid
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on January 01, 2008, 01:36:20 AM
i will test the rectifier on a battery to see how it performs but my guess from my experiments today is  there is no ac current. and if there is we will need an antenna to get it.  i used the rectifier and my voltage dropped from .25 to .017 and there were no amps present, not sure if its my meter or what im doing as i got amps the other day.  i will perform more tests and report back.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on January 01, 2008, 02:19:45 AM
Not sure what this means,

Seems your readings are normal.  ~1volts/ ~.5mA  Try downsizing your images, right now they are 3000+ pixels.  640x480 is a good resolution.  What materials and setup are you using?  I got some copper and galvanized sheet metal to construct a small earth cell for comparative results.  I'm gonna try the stubblefields stacked cell.  I also have some capacitors and will give those a try.  Now if we could light a 5w cree led that would be something. :D
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: sid10 on January 01, 2008, 03:23:25 AM
My probes are copper coated carbon arc gouging rod on the north end and plain steel on the south end. Still looking for a capactior to try out. I have a few leds that are installed on a board of a fire alarm that went bad on one of the guys at work. Them were free and all still work at about 2.5 volts. I tried a cap that came from the same board it would charge to about .42 volts whit a 1 minute charge and drain down really quickly when tested on the meter.
I'll have to see if the Christmas camera is adjustable for formatt size.
Does .5mA mean that is about one half of an amp showing up at 1 volt?
Thanks Sid
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: akashh on January 01, 2008, 03:33:30 AM
This is an excerpt from some website:
You can demonstrate to students that the Earth?s magnetic field lines are orientated in a particular direction using a long piece of wire (3-5m) as a skipping rope. When a wire cuts across magnetic field lines a current is produced and can be measured using a galvanometer (sensitive ammeter). The longer the wire and the faster you spin it the bigger the current you will produce. If you align the wire in a north-south direction it will cut through the field lines at right angles and you will see a (maximum) current register on the galvanometer, if you then realign it in an east-west direction you will not be cutting the Earth?s magnetic field lines but will be travelling ?along? them and will not produce a current. If you orientate the wire anywhere in between you will be partially cutting the field lines and will produce a smaller current. Finding the maximum current will therefore find the north-south direction

Just researching ways of getting current from the earth's magnetic field :-)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 01, 2008, 09:35:36 AM
Retracted post.  I misread the numbers.  Sorry.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 01, 2008, 10:05:59 AM
@ sid10:

I beleive you are correct on your readings.  The last reading looks to me like .5 mA. (1/2 milliamp)  I think the only difference between your first two is you were on a different scale so, it added and extra place to the number. (better accuracy)  I have been measuring my volts on the 20 v setting. Yes, that's almost a volt. (both readings) Good job.  Why not post some pictures of your cell?  If I am not correct about any of this, anyone feel free to tell me.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on January 01, 2008, 10:58:33 AM
Well my attempt at my first real dirt cell.  :)  I might make some more to pair in series or parallel, but I will find easier ways to construct it.

(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/337/dceller3.jpg)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on January 01, 2008, 04:08:34 PM
you said you had the positive plate aligned north south and the neg east west right? hmm, that sounds like it was aligned to receive best magnetic current from earth on positive and best discharge to positive with the neg. plate.  thats interesting.  all this makes me eager to attempt my tesla reciever. i think i will use the magnetics of the earth as a factor in creation of it.

now that the theory of the earth as a faraday disk has been mentioned i think we can all agree thats whats happening here! so what method would best tap this energy is the question?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Ariochdm on January 01, 2008, 06:31:57 PM
@Artic Knight - if the earth were acting as a faraday disk wouldnt burying one of the poles of the earth battery deeper into the ground create more current?  One pole as close to the center of earth as you could get it and one pole close to the surface?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on January 01, 2008, 07:59:21 PM
hey guys i know we are exploring the earth battery only at the moment but i just got another great idea to try.  if you spin the copper disk of a faraday disk with the magnet it supposedly still generates current right? but at this point the magnet is not stationary creating friction so theoretically you could pile on a bunch of these disks onto the shaft of a low volt low current motor and power the motor off the earth battery, now you got a lot of amps at a voltage similar to what we already have 2 volt :-p we just need a good glue some magnets and copper plates :-p LOL

any hoot i just wanted to throw that out there as an idea. i cant wait to go home and play with the battery!

for the earth battery to raise the current we need to have more surface area, that means deeper and wider.  im not sure how deeper will affect it but there are 8 ft copper and zink or galvanized? rods at lowes i believe it was, maybe home depot. they would be great!
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: tak22 on January 01, 2008, 08:24:25 PM
@Artic Knight

you might save some $s and not buy large rods until you prove to yourself that "size matters". I've seen nothing yet that conclusively correlates surface area, depth, or distance to energy collected.

I'd get a known stable setup using magnetic inclination and declination first, then start throwing in the variables (close to tree, wet/dry, depth, metals, surface area, distance, depth, etc).

yes this project is on my list come better weather!

tak
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on January 01, 2008, 08:25:40 PM
G'day Artic,

What you are talking about has been tried many times, though perhaps not with an earth battery powering the Faraday disk. Have a look at the work of Bruce de Palma and his "N Machine".

http://antigravitypower.tripod.com/FreeEnergy/depalma.html

and the overunity thread on the device:     http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=626.msg66777

Hope this helps

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 01, 2008, 08:26:36 PM
I tried a cap that came from the same board it would charge to about .42 volts whit a 1 minute charge

Thanks Sid

Interesting that your cap fills to .42 volts. that is what mine has done on 2 different locations even when the voltage before I put the cap in line was 1.64volts.  And way more than 1 minute charge. it stayed at that level and never rose after the minute. Does this mean anything?
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 01, 2008, 10:45:44 PM
Here are some pictures of today's efforts.  I added the graphite carpenter's pencil and my new nail "cell" to the mix.

At first, I got:

1.05 vdc
4.2 mA

Then, since it is so cold, going to 9 degrees here today, I decided to hook up the old 9 volt to the cell and charge it for a few minutes.  Results:

1.64 vdc
6.24 mA

I made these pictures in the smallest format my camera allows.  We will see what happens.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 01, 2008, 10:57:28 PM
Here should be a labeled picture of the set up as used and tested today.  Not very clear but you should
get the idea.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 01, 2008, 11:20:28 PM
I just calculated today's results in watts. .01025 watts, does this sound correct?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on January 01, 2008, 11:28:42 PM
Nice work.  I would plug it in the ground first and take some reading before making many more.

I came home about 1AM (New Years).  The LED was not lit for me.  Gonna pull my copper out of the ground and clean it and wrap it in plastic.  hehe..

Keep us posted on your progress.  I when for two large pieves about 6" in the ground.  Did not try small strips.  You will probably have to rotate it for the best readings.  I did.  Oddly, my copper was in line with N/S and the zinc was E/W. Both aligned N/S

Yea, I was wondering how to align it, as there's so many combinations you could do with respect to n/s, +/-, and width/ hieght.  I wonder if we should try not only north, but using angle to the north star.  Where I live, I think its around 37.5.  I think I will make a single cell and try these out first, so I won't keep having to dig stuff up.

@Pirate, 4.2mA pretty good!
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on January 01, 2008, 11:37:19 PM
its either .01 or .1 but it sounds like an improvement!

i cleaned the rods off. reminder im using aluminum and steel (its free) and i got .5 v  at .1-.2 amp it fluctuated between 1 and 2   i connected the AC rectifier and again my voltage dropped dramatically to almost nothing and amps nada. connected back to dc and it was back to normal.

even tho we read a AC current in these experiments i have to say from what i have seen there is no ac there in the 2 rod cell. i will test again depending on my results from the earth battery tesla coil combo when that is finished.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: stallman on January 02, 2008, 01:22:42 AM
@ everyone

Hey this might be a stupid idea but has any one tried to charge their Earth battery with radiant energy? It would be interesting if some one could hook a bedini engine or any other RE generators up to their Earth batteries. Mabey some how it could help you cell grab more radiant energy from the ground. This might be the secret to stubble fields inventions. Mabey a lighting bolt hit near his Earth batteries, lightning is a huge RE burst, Making his battery sync with the earth radiant energy. Also radiant energy charges batteries differently than hot current. Its just an idea.

What do you guys think

Stallman (c)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 02, 2008, 03:37:55 AM
Here are some pictures of today's efforts.  I added the graphite carpenter's pencil and my new nail "cell" to the mix.

At first, I got:

1.05 vdc
4.2 mA

Then, since it is so cold, going to 9 degrees here today, I decided to hook up the old 9 volt to the cell and charge it for a few minutes.  Results:

1.64 vdc
6.24 mA

I made these pictures in the smallest format my camera allows.  We will see what happens.

Bill

Hi Bill,

First, good job experimenting.  I would again say, that as long as experiments continue to increase wattage we are moving in the right direction.

Now, the big question for you.  After using your 9 volt to charge it for a few minutes, you took a reading.  Both volts and amperage were up.  For how long did the voltage stay up?  Do you know how to wire batteries in series?  If not, I can draw a diagram.  If so, please wire 2 or three batteries in series, and repeat the same exact test for the same amount of minutes and take a reading.  IF the reading goes up, then we know that it is the voltage causing this, and that would be confirmation and great news.  Batteries in series, will give you the amperage of one battery, but the voltage addition of each battery.  Three nine volts in series, give you about 150 ma at 18 volts.  Please be sure to see how long you read that higher output on your earth battery.  Then, if it drops back down, repeat the same test, but this time put a load on the earth battery and see if it stays up for the same amount of time.

I will be home by the weekend and will be in the fray in no time at all.  I ordered one, half inch by 48" carbon rob.  This I will cut into several electrodes.  I also ordered 2 magnesium blocks.  This will get me started.  I also have what I need at home to test out my induction coil theory, etc.  I also ran across carbon fiber cloth.  This will be helpful, should we find that we indeed do need surface area.  The guys who ran the telegraphs, claimed that the larger the "disc" in the ground, (in the horizontal plane, not sticking out of the ground,  ;) the greater the increase in power, also the greater the distance.  I will try all ways.  Having a ranch, I have a lot of land to play with. 

Happy experimenting,



Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 02, 2008, 04:11:33 AM
Here are some pictures of today's efforts.  I added the graphite carpenter's pencil and my new nail "cell" to the mix.

At first, I got:

1.05 vdc
4.2 mA

Then, since it is so cold, going to 9 degrees here today, I decided to hook up the old 9 volt to the cell and charge it for a few minutes.  Results:

1.64 vdc
6.24 mA

I made these pictures in the smallest format my camera allows.  We will see what happens.

Bill
Bill,
How long did this increased vdc and mA last? did you go back out after a while and check?
(1.64vdc x .00624A=0.0102vdc  all right. )

Bill,
Did you / would you check the voltage across the LED with cap while it is charging on your earth battery? Twice I got only 0.4 vdc.. Mine never did light but I don't have a carbon gouger rod yet.
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 02, 2008, 04:16:31 AM
@ Bruce:

Thanks.  And yes, I THINK I know how to wire multiple batteries in series but let me make sure.  + to - and + to -...etc., correct? (like in a maglight flashlight) It bleeds down failry fast from what I have experienced.  It was so cold and the wind was blowing about 25 knots that I did not check after my initial readings.  Last time I "juiced" the cell it bled down to a "stable" reading after about 5 minutes.  This reading was higher than the readings I took prior to the 9 volt addition to the circuit.  This is what amazes me with my limited knowledge of electricity.  I mean, I used to work with CNC grinders and we made seperate earth grounds for all of them to keep the computers happy.  Any spikes were dumped into the earth, never to be heard from again. (or so I was taught)  The fact that you can "charge" the cells and still have time to disconnect the battery and take some readings, just amazes me.  The books I read say it (the charge) should just dissapate into the earth instantly.  Why does it stay here?  How much will stay and for how long?  Which leads to the experiments that you suggested.  I can try to do them but it might be a while.  I would like to know the answers to this myself. I am looking forward to your experiment results. Best of luck to you.

@ mramos:

I believe that we have almost proven that surface area is important.  The pictures you posted showed a lot of surface area but most of which was not in the ground.  Some have suggested trying the "plates" lying flat on the ground, or burried underneath it.  You are dealing with a lot of sand there and I have no idea what this means as far as results go.  The more surface area of electrodes I use, the more amps (mA) and volts go up.  Still not much power here, yet, that is agreed.  But, we are moving in the right direction even before entering the phase using coils and other circuits to boost output.  Do you have an area where you can place those large sheets a few inches under the ground? (horizontally) I would place a bet that the output goes up.  Somewhere in the first 4 pages of this thread is a post about the Russians that tested and gave results of a lot of power per square meter.  This is why surface area is important. Your soil (sand) might not be helping, or maybe, would be better with different materials and configurations?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on January 02, 2008, 05:36:25 PM
G'day all,

Have a look at this:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3857.new.html#new

Some of this work cuts right into what we are doing here. The pdf file Dogs offers for download is very good.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on January 02, 2008, 10:35:27 PM
I tried a 4 plate cell in water to test the voltage and milliamps.  Plate measures 2.5"x4" ~30gauge.

Initial mA - 10.21mA |  0.82 volts

mA drops immediately

At around 3.5mA it will drop .01mA every 10 seconds, so the drop was slowing and stabilizing. (Dropped to 3.5mA within ~3 minutes)

It seems surface area definitely matters, although there might be a lot of other ways to maximize the power.  What was interesting is that you can move the cell within the water, and the mA would go right back up.  Frictionless generator?  Perhaps you could create some water vortex and concentrate it into a collector.  I think if you use this in a stream, it would be a stable 10mA generator.

(http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1159/4pecmv2.jpg)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on January 03, 2008, 12:31:57 AM
i apologize for the miss information i was getting 1-2 miliamp
i know a led uses 20 at 1.7 volt thats what my clear red led is rated at most likely the same as bills since it was the cheapest on electricity i could find from electronic store.

i can get a steady .52 volt at 1-2 miliamp, and its rate of fluctuation is a pattery, it would switch twice a second i think.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2008, 02:26:21 AM
@ Artic Knight:

That's a nice looking cell.  I have an idea...maybe.  I like the way you used plates to multiply the surface area.  What if, you made a cell with one type of metal, and another with another type of metal, ie carbon plates on one and put it in the north position, and magnesium plates on the other?  Or, substitute any opposing metals (as far away from each other on the galvanic chart) that you can obtain?  What I am getting at is that you have devised a way to get a whole lot of surface area in a small package.  I believe that if you used them like we are doing already, you might easily surpass any reading we have to date. If  I was not so low on funds at the moment, I would love to try that out.  This way, you would have the north/south thing in your favor as well as the distance between the two disimmilar metals which will boost the output.  What do you think?

No problem on the readings, it is very easy to mix up while doing this stuff.  That is why when I see someone post that they are getting 2 amps, I question it, not that they are lying, but, possibly misread the scale.  Let me know what you think.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2008, 02:37:59 AM
@ Hans:

Thanks for posting the link.  I read the pdf and saved it for later ref.  So, you think that this type of circuit would increase our power? There is a lot about that circuit that I don't understand but, our old friend resonance is involved. Maybe someone else that knows more about this than I can comment.  So many ideas here, and so little time.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on January 03, 2008, 02:57:05 AM
@ Artic Knight:

That's a nice looking cell.  I have an idea...maybe.  I like the way you used plates to multiply the surface area.  What if, you made a cell with one type of metal, and another with another type of metal, ie carbon plates on one and put it in the north position, and magnesium plates on the other?  Or, substitute any opposing metals (as far away from each other on the galvanic chart) that you can obtain?  What I am getting at is that you have devised a way to get a whole lot of surface area in a small package.  I believe that if you used them like we are doing already, you might easily surpass any reading we have to date. If  I was not so low on funds at the moment, I would love to try that out.  This way, you would have the north/south thing in your favor as well as the distance between the two disimmilar metals which will boost the output.  What do you think?

No problem on the readings, it is very easy to mix up while doing this stuff.  That is why when I see someone post that they are getting 2 amps, I question it, not that they are lying, but, possibly misread the scale.  Let me know what you think.

Bill

Bill i think it was Freezer who posted the cell your talking about :)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on January 03, 2008, 03:48:03 AM
well im interested in running some more tests, one is with the tesla coil as a antenna, another is to get another aluminium rod and cut the steel in half, now mind you i have done all i can at this point based on what we have here to optimize my output with 2 poles,  i probed for best voltage they are only 6 inches roughly in the ground and i sanded the aluminium. the steel is galvanized. these rods are roughly 1 to 1.5 inch thick.  i need a proper capacitor and i will make a transformer to step down the voltage and that should light a led for me nicely. but i have not gotten there yet. i can say that to tie a led strait to this cell does nothing for me! no light! i believe its mostly due to the voltage at 1/3 required for the led.

i have read an article about the faraday disks that hanz posted and in it they made mention of waves of electricity carrying more potential than just the electricity. this i believe is relevant to this thread and i will elabrate.

you have one pulse wave of dc (what we are getting) it is rated at 1 volt at one amp. well the volt is how high the wave is and the amp is how long the wave is, riding on this wave is another bit of energy for some reason not seen by our volt meters but harnessed by our capacitors perhaps it is the collapse of the magnetic field of the wave? or maybe just the collapse of the wave just of itself?  this wave has that extra energy that turns it from a 1v 1a reading to a 1v 3a potential.

this is something that would be unproven as it is not easily measured and would require a radical invention to prove, hmm i see no shortage of them here all one would have to do is look at the TPU? coil device made mention of earlyer in this thread. it would create a magnetic field and harness the potential from it then the field would collapse violently creating another magnetic wave generating more potential!  i believe these waves are of high amplitude and low voltage which would go along with what i have seen on my amp meter, if one of the magnetic "lines" of the planet crossed my battery every second then i would get an amp, after it left and the field collapsed i would get 2 amps and over again!

just for reference i am using aluminium and galvanized steel if anyone has those metals and wishes to try, it was spaced 3 feed apart roughtly and the aluminium was an inch deeper roughly. i by force of my hand stuck the aluminum against the ground firmly till i found the place of highest voltage then hammered into the ground.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2008, 06:17:43 AM
Apology to Freezer and Artic Knight.

I am sorry.  I did not mean to confuse the two of you guys.  It was a very busy day here and it is now 8 degrees F outside. My brain, what is left of it, was not working very well.

@Joe:

Thanks for pointing that out. What do you think of the idea though?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 03, 2008, 07:26:25 AM
well the volt is how high the wave is and the amp is how long the wave is, 

Arctic_Knight
Thanks for this explanation. It helps. I understand frequency in music etc but this may be what I need to be able to translate it into circuits.

I can't understand what it is that you tune when you are tuning a circuit for frequency.

I did a little indoors experiment today. It is sort of my next step to Bill's circuit.
I put together the 2 LED circuits that I have. (I drew both of them the other day.) One has a green LED and a series cap made of two 0.047F supercaps in parallel to the light, and the  other one  has a red LED with two 1F supercaps in parallel. I ran these neg to pos neg to pos then an 8 " piece of wire making a ring back to the first neg. I put the leads of a battery with 2.7V between the legs of just one LED-Caps unit.
Both lights lit up and stayed lit for an hour on a 60 second charge. I repeated this 4 times and checked the voltage on the battery before and after each application. It went down by about 0.01v with each application. Sometimes it went down more than that just after the application but was recovered later.  The battery started with 2.73 volts and now is 2.71 volts.

The other thing is that making a loop in the same way but with only the {red plus 2 caps all in parallel} set., the connecting wire got hot and started to burn. Then when I added the other one, the {green LED with one series cap in parallel} set, everything is as I described.

If this is too hard to follow I will make a drawing.

Please understand that the reason I am resorting to using a chemical battery for now is that I have just under what I need to start my circuit with the earth battery and I am just getting my circuit ready while I wait for the carbon rod.  And I thought you should know because the results are so promissing.

I think mramos's jule thief might help move things along the earth battery too. I will be putting one of those together to try.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2008, 07:44:33 AM
@ Jeanna:

Great work.  Good idea to test your circuits with the battery before going outside to freeze.  What is a joule thief?
I have seen this mentioned a few times on the forum and I have no idea what it is, or what it does, or how to make one. It sounds like a very effieicent circuit but, what do I know?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 03, 2008, 09:05:08 PM
@ Jeanna:

Great work.  Good idea to test your circuits with the battery before going outside to freeze.  What is a joule thief?
I have seen this mentioned a few times on the forum and I have no idea what it is, or what it does, or how to make one. It sounds like a very effieicent circuit but, what do I know?

Bill
Bill,
It is a small circuit that extracts the unused juice remaining in a battery. It seems to greatly enhance the useability of any voltage/amperage that is there. It may enhance our earth batteries.

Take a look at these 2 sites for a joule thief.

http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/joule.htm
http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/joulethief

The second one is a little video that makes it look easy. (Now that I have a "helping hand" to hold some of the parts while I solder!)

I just saw something strange in my new circuit. I will see if I can figure it out before I describe it. Sometimes I don't trust my meter, then sometimes it seems perfect. I think I expect it to do odd things.

I have a request.
Would you please (did you already?)  measure the voltage across the 2 leads of your LED? I am asking for these when it is no longer connected to the battery and is closed in a loop.
 The other number I want to know from your circuit is the voltage of the rest of it. The voltage across everything that is excluded from the led-cap part.
thank you,
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on January 03, 2008, 09:31:45 PM
Stubblefield continued

Here is another article I came across on the net that I feel is relevant. It is about an experiment trying to replicate some of Dr. Hooper?s work on what he termed ?Motional E-Fields?.

The author is only known as ?Sparky?.

                                           The Motional E-Field.

This is one of my most interesting projects that I have kept private. While experimenting for several years on this project, I decided to release what information I have concerning this extremely exciting subject. The experiments I will explain could Kill you. Use Extreme caution. You have been warned, proceed at your own risk.

Lots of folks have tried in vain to build a machine that exploits the Motional E Field. The problem is a basic understanding of HOW it works. Notice, I did not say why it works. I don?t have a clue as to WHY it works. I have read everything I could find on the subject, it is vague on what?s out there about it. I will leave WHY it works to Bearden, Sweet, Kaluza-Klien and others who profess to know this. I do recommend reading "Nothing is Something" by Floyd Sweet found with a good search program. But even then he is trying to explain where this mystery potential is coming from, instead of explaining how to actually build a device to produce it.

A normal wound coil has induction. A Bifilar coil connected in reverse-Parallel {Ends Tied} has very little. We will use both in a device to exploit the MEF. The experiment will be just that, not a full time working device ready to power your house or car. Purchase {3} rolls of 24 gauge at 100 feet each magnet wire. I use the GC brand part# L3-612. Gather {2} empty plastic spools with a 1 inch bore. The GC brand comes on these 1 inch bore spools, very handy. Take {2} rolls of the 24 gauge wire and wind them on a empty spool. We are making a bifilar coil. Take your time and wind it carefully keeping the wires together as you wind. You need good balanced bifilar coil. Make sure the wires are the same length, 100 feet. When you get through, clip the ends equal and tie them together. Now test your bifilar wire. It must NOT conduct any electrical potential and or current. Hold it next to a spinning magnet assembly of sorts with a good meter set on AC. Nothing.... it must not conduct anything, this is very important. The bifilar coil will be your pick up coil, but NOT as NORMAL electrical conduction. Take your last roll of wire and leave it on the spool and we will use it as the exciter coil. These coils have no cores, and you will see why later.

Find or purchase {2} ferrite magnets 2" x 6" x 1" will do. We are only doing an experiment.

You will not have a continuous output, so go this route first. Do not use Neo's, their lattice domains are very tight. You will have to demagnetize these magnets to about 10 to 20 gauss. How you do it is up to you. One can wrap the magnets with magnet wire and dump cap voltage against the fields, or use heat. This is common, so I won?t go into that procedure here. Once the magnets are demagnetized, we need to treat them. We need to impress a 60 Hz field in the now loosened domains of the magnets. Wrap the magnets separately with 100 feet of #19 or #20 wire each. Wire these in series and connect them to a veriac on the lowest level. Go do something else for 2 or 3 hours. You can build conditioning coils on forms that slide over the magnets for easy removal and installation. After 2 or 3 hours remove the coils and check the magnets with a scope. You should see a weak 60 hz signal on the magnets. Carefully place the bifilar coil and the exciter coil between the {2} magnets. Space them as far apart as possible without the spools hanging off the edges of the magnets. use plastic ties to keep them in place.

Connect the Exciter coil to a generator at 8 to 12 volts at 2 to 3 ma at 60hz. Place a load across the bifilar coil, such as a light. See if the bulb will flash. If it does, place more bulbs in line with the load. It may even blow the bulb. This field is regulated by load. You may have to experiment with the exciter voltage to get the effect to occur. All one wishes to do is vibrate the magnet. do not overdrive the magnet with the exciter voltage. This will not last long, the magnets will loose the 60Hz signal. Perhaps Barium ferrite IS needed to keep the 60hz signal or the whole design is not shielded properly or it will always run down. Barium has high electron emissivity and promotes electron scattering when excited. The point is: Something of the electrical nature lit the bulbs from a non-conductive coil. The bifilar coil was not connected to anything but the bulbs placed between the {2} treated magnets.

Now, HOW it works. As current flows through a wire the electrons act like magnets when they MOVE. Now if they don?t move, they just have a electrical field around them. If we move this current through the bifilar coil, the magnetism cancels. But moving the electron magnetism will actually add. The magnet domains have been loosened. Their domains are not locked in a position they can shuttle some what within the structure. But they still have a very small amount of magnetism. It is like billions of small magnets vibrating about the domains because of the 60hz exciter coil. They also have a 60hz signal that we supplied to the magnets. Because they have a slight charge on top of being small magnets the E-Field will manifest into the bifilar coil. But this is not the normal conductive current. In fact any normal conductive current abounds, it will cancel the effect. This is the reason the bifilar coil must be made so carefully. You MUST have the least amount of induction in your bifilar coil as possible. This is the reason I use no core. I want a small exciter signal that does not interfere with the bifilar coil, so the exciter coil has no core either.

All the exciter coil does is vibrate the domains which have the 60hz signal placed on all those billions of atoms already that are very slightly magnetized in the domains. Moving a electrical charge against another charge by separate wire cancels the magnetism in both wires and adds.

 This is the Motional E-Field.

I have added this graphic to show the experimental arrangement.
(http://keelytech.com/overunity/e-field.jpg)
   
This experiment is of interest because here we see again the creation of a perpendicular field similar to what Stubblefield, Barbat and others are relying on, in line with Barbat?s interpretation of Helmholtz.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 03, 2008, 11:17:00 PM
@ Jeanna:

I just measured the volts on my circuit which has been sitting in the house since this weekend's experiments posted earlier. (led + lead not connected)  From the - side of the cap, which is also the - lead of the led to the pluse lead of the led I got 1.62vdc.  I checked mA just for the heck of it and got 6.12mA but it began to fall off as I guess the meter is basically shorting it.  It falls off when I check a battery for mA.  I am not sure I understand your other question.  Tell me what you want to know, and I will check it.  Thanks for the great info on Joule thiefs.  Just when I think I am learning something, along comes so much more that I need to learn.  But, learning is fun!  Thanks again.

@ Hans:

This motional E field theory is fantastic.  This is the first time I read of a bifilar coil arrangement where they actually tell you what to do with all of the ends of the wires from the windings.  I have several coils lying around here but have no idea what to do with them.  More to study now.  Thanks for finding this great information.


Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on January 03, 2008, 11:30:36 PM
@ Bill,

There are a number of ways to connect bi-filar coils, each with different properties. More in further posts.

Hans
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 03, 2008, 11:50:36 PM
@ Jeanna:

I just measured the volts on my circuit which has been sitting in the house since this weekend's experiments posted earlier. (led + lead not connected)  From the - side of the cap, which is also the - lead of the led to the pluse lead of the led I got 1.62vdc.  I checked mA just for the heck of it and got 6.12mA but it began to fall off as I guess the meter is basically shorting it.  It falls off when I check a battery for mA.  I am not sure I understand your other question.  Tell me what you want to know, and I will check it.  Thanks for the great info on Joule thiefs.  Just when I think I am learning something, along comes so much more that I need to learn.  But, learning is fun!  Thanks again.
Bill
Well it may not be an issue with the single set that you have. I think what I am seeing is something that is an interaction between the 2 sets.

If I check the voltage across either set ( cap end to cap end of either the green set or the red set) I get a voltage and they are both exactly the same. However if I check the voltage across  "outside of those caps in just the wire that hooks them together, there is nothing. So, I am interpreting this to mean that since there is no load to draw current there is no more movement of any kind. I plan to add a LED just by itself across the plain wire to check this, but I first need to go to radio shack. And I would like verification from your single cap type of circuit set.

Just the wire alone. The part that doesn't do anything but touch the LED/cap circuit.

I will make a drawing, I think.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: cub3 on January 04, 2008, 12:57:52 AM
Jenna

A good article on LED's and Joule thief circuts.

http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/LEDTorchCircuits/LEDTorchCircuits-P1.html

Den
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 04, 2008, 01:59:34 AM
Jenna

A good article on LED's and Joule thief circuts.

http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/LEDTorchCircuits/LEDTorchCircuits-P1.html

Den
Thanks, Den

I just bought the list for another joule thief. And since it is now pouring rain again, I may just build it. :)

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on January 04, 2008, 02:20:15 AM
i dont know how much knowledge of this topic is known to the people of the forum but the jule thief works because A. it ups the voltage through the coil and lowers the amps, (when voltage is raised this way the amps gets lowered) and B because it is pulsed. 

i like coils, for instance since i have .52 volt and need 1.7 roughly to operate my led i could take a coil and on the led side wrap 3.5 times the wire that i wrap for the battery input this will allow my led side with 3 times the wire have 3 times the volts that was put in, but then i will be left with .75 miliamp which means i will need to pulse it to power the led. i dont fully understand how to pulse but thats what the transistor is for. this curcuit could be more effecient i think with a cap but not certain of that.  for instance take the current and pipe it strait into a cap then take it out in pulses, this will only work if the cap is going to have the output voltage of 1.5 1.7 volts that i need not sure about that either if a cap can change the energy or not. 

what they are using is simply a step up transformer :D they could tap even more current if they add more windings and slow the pulses. then they could light the led after the power is seemingly gone.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 04, 2008, 02:30:44 AM
i dont know how much knowledge of this topic is known to the people of the forum but the jule thief works because A. it ups the voltage through the coil and lowers the amps, (when voltage is raised this way the amps gets lowered) and B because it is pulsed. 

Thanks Arctic Knight
I want to see. I sort of thought it was the pulses that made it use less but seem like more. But if it reduces the already almost non existent amperage of the earth battery, it won't work. but on the chance I will make one. If nothing else, I will be able to squeeze the juice out of dead batteries to run my LED 'candles'.

I am having trouble understanding what is happening with oscillating currents. I think it is important so I want get my hands on them. I think it is the only way.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 04, 2008, 02:38:07 AM
@ Jeanna:

I just measured the volts on my circuit which has been sitting in the house since this weekend's experiments posted earlier. (led + lead not connected)  From the - side of the cap, which is also the - lead of the led to the pluse lead of the led I got 1.62vdc. 
Bill
I think if you connect the thing into a ring it will be what I am looking for??
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 04, 2008, 02:51:51 AM
@ Jeanna:

Ring?  What do you mean by ring?  A frined of mine stopped by today (he is also a PI) and I turned off the lights and showed him my led circuit.  His direct quote was "Holly Crap!"  He said the led was very bright, as do I.  But, according to the numbers, as mramos said, this should be nowhere near full brightness, but, he shined it around my kitchen and said it was brighter than his keychain led that he also uses on surveillance.  That keychain light uses three, like mine, hearing aid type batteries.  So, this leads me to believe that possibly there is more power here than we are measuring.  I know this sounds like false hope, and I try not to do that, but, my led should not even begin to light until 1.7 vdc and I posted ( in response to your question) a voltage lower than that.  That is the voltage used when my friend viewed the light output.  "Very bright" he also said.  I realize that this is very subjective but, interesting non the less.  I also showed him how I can power three leds on the circuit, well, the original one and two flashing ones.  He was impressed.  I could have put this out for my Christmas lights but tried it too late. So, you are getting a carbon rod?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on January 04, 2008, 03:05:40 AM
Quote from article -

[How to cheat!
There is a secret way to make a lemon-cell light up an incandescent bulb. You have to cheat. Buy yourself a "super capacitor" or "memory backup capacitor" via mail-order surplus. They cost a few dollars. You want a value between 0.1 farad and 0.5 farads. Try one of these suppliers:

    * All Electronics
    * Electronics Goldmine
    * Jameco Electronics

To light a bulb, first build a lemon battery and connect it to the terminals of the supercapacitor. (Me, I use alligator clip-leads bought from Radio Shack.) Wait for a few minutes. Now connect your flashlight bulb to the supercapacitor terminals and it should light brightly for a few seconds. (If not, then remove the bulb and try connecting your lemon cell to the capacitor for 15 minutes to make sure the capacitor gathers enough energy.) The capacitor slowly collects electrical energy from the lemon battery, then it dumps that energy into the flashlight bulb over a very short time. You can even use this trick to let your lemon battery run a low-voltage buzzer or turn a small motor (look for "solar cell motors" from various mail order suppliers or Radio Shack.) As with the bulb, you must charge up the capacitor for many minutes, then use it to run your bulb or motor for a few seconds.]

http://amasci.com/miscon/miscon4.html#lemon

I built 4 sets of 4 plate cells in series and tried them in water.  It gets about 4.2mA at around 3.2volts.  It lights one of my leds pretty bright, and some at medium brightness, which run at 4.5volts.  I used a 5.5v | .022f capacitor and it increases the power on only one of my lower power leds.  You notice a little increase in brightness, but It didn't work with other leds.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on January 04, 2008, 03:40:09 AM
jenna and all

if i implied that this jule thief would not work then i apologize because it will work. how well is the question, and jenna you are right pulsing is part of the way it conserves energy and lights a bulb. 

what this device does is raise the energy available to a usable voltage (doesnt matter how many amps you have if the voltage isnt high enough. to do the work) now we pulse it and it turns on and off. but if it does it fast enough it will save power because its not a constant draw and give us the current needed to create a percieved constant light. what the amps is good for i dont know i really cant explain it. in fact with my current knowledge i cant explain why anything draws the amps it does. seems like you could drop the amps to me and it would still work. but then im not a electritian either. my grand father is and he cant really explain it either  :P

what im saying is if you want a jule thief take an iron nail and with some math you can up the voltage to what ever you want, but its going to lower your amps.  this is a induction coil or transformer of sorts. i will be making one to attempt to light my led later.

bill since you have achieved 1.8 volt at several miliamp i would suggest trying to run several led's in parallel.

if you want to "double" your watt output you can pulse the current, if its off for a second then on for a second you will have stored X amount of power in a cap so when its on you can draw XX amount of current to power your device. however this means the light will flicker, if its fast enough you can "double" the usable power and make it look like the light never turns off.  they really should use this curcuit in light bulbs  ;) ;D  its a gimic but for certain apps like Lights it works considerably well.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 04, 2008, 04:05:04 AM
@ Artic Knight:

Great information.  This reminds me of a device marketed in the 70's which was a simple disc that you put in the base of an incandecent light bulb fixture.  They "claimed" that a 100 watt bulb would still be just as bright (to the eye?) and use 50% less power.  Looking back I now believe that possibly this device pulsed the light, on and off like you are saying, and it "appeared" to be just as bright.  I am now messing with leds that flash.  If I could get them in sync then I could have two lit, for the power of one.  One off, and one on...etc.  Look at Tesla's 60 cycle ac that we still use in our homes today.  Any incandecent bulb in our houses turns off and on 60 times per second, right?  We don't see that do we?  And to me, with my limited but growing knowledge of things electrical, if I have a light and it is off just as much as it is on, would that not mean a 50% power savings?  My plan was to sync several flashing leds so some were on while the others were off.  Possibly double the light output with the same power.  What do you folks think?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on January 04, 2008, 04:24:21 AM
@ Artic Knight:

Great information.  This reminds me of a device marketed in the 70's which was a simple disc that you put in the base of an incandecent light bulb fixture.  They "claimed" that a 100 watt bulb would still be just as bright (to the eye?) and use 50% less power.  Looking back I now believe that possibly this device pulsed the light, on and off like you are saying, and it "appeared" to be just as bright.  I am now messing with leds that flash.  If I could get them in sync then I could have two lit, for the power of one.  One off, and one on...etc.  Look at Tesla's 60 cycle ac that we still use in our homes today.  Any incandecent bulb in our houses turns off and on 60 times per second, right?  We don't see that do we?  And to me, with my limited but growing knowledge of things electrical, if I have a light and it is off just as much as it is on, would that not mean a 50% power savings?  My plan was to sync several flashing leds so some were on while the others were off.  Possibly double the light output with the same power.  What do you folks think?

Bill

http://www.techass.com/el/docs/m4zman.pdf

The flashlights these guys sell run on the same principle of using a circuit to adjust the pulse frequency of the leds.  It can last a lot longer and appear to have similar brightness, but as you pulse slower it lowers in intensity.  Its actually a pretty interesting light, as its fully adjustable.  I think if we made some really simple circuit which limits power, and lowers the pulse but not to much, and that would atleast conserve power.  I think the goal would be figuring out how to amplify, and if there's some way to speed up the flow by way of pulsing at certain ranges.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on January 04, 2008, 04:26:44 AM
bill

to start lets discuss ac. ac is a constant current or constant voltage similiar to dc only that it changes the positive and negative poles 60 times a second. the incandecent light is a wire that gets white hot basically melting but 60 times a second the current reverses in this bulb, it never stops sucking juice and never turns off.

now as far as saving electricity with pulsing that depends on how you work it. if you need XX current then you will turn off the light for X current then turn on for XX  so that it can be powered. and this will not save any power but mearly double the workload for the available power.  if however you have a light that takes X current and you turn it off as much as it is on or pulse it then when its off it saves X current. in the case of the incandecent bulb if you pulsed it assuming it worked for those bulbs (dont see why not) then you would essentially get a 50 watt bulb for 100 watt brightness. however im fairly sure in the incandecent case it would just become dim. maybe not if its pulsed fast enough.

my goal here is to light the smallest halogen light i can buy, if thats a 5 watt halogen then i want it lit! if i can find a trick to help me like the jule thief transformer then why not?  it might not power a house but i get free outside lighting!
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on January 04, 2008, 04:43:47 AM
maybe this explenation is better:

i have .52 volt at 2 miliamp if i make a step up transformer (the wound wire) i would need 4 windings on the battery side and 14 windings on the led side that would give me 1.82 volt at .75 miliamp (the ratio is 3.5 which adds to voltage and takes from amps) now if i pulse it equal on and equal off it can draw 1.82 volt at 1.5 miliamp when on without draining the cap or exceeding the input. that is what the jule thief does. if you use a variant of this on the batteries (more inportantly the pulsing) you can double the run time.  the rate at which you pulse does not affect it as long as it has equal off and equal on.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 04, 2008, 05:04:18 AM
OK to save on words here is a picture
I charge my circuit by putting the battery leads between points D & E on the upper right. Both lights shine brightly. I hold that and count 60 seconds. Then let go. With the circuit still joined in a loop (ring), It glows brightly for longer than the green circuit has ever kept going, about 10 minutes. Then the green light looks dim but the red one still looks good. I think there are 2 reasons for this.
1- The green light's caps have a much smaller capacity and
2- there is only one cap in parallel to the green light. I believe this makes the green light run the power out faster.
I checked the various attachment places this morning and was surprised.
The voltage is the same exact measurement 1.5V between the legs of the green set and the legs of the red set. This makes sense.
Also between B - D or E - C there is 1.5V
BUT there is no voltage between B - E , A - F, A - E, F - B.
In a way I can see that all charge has stopped moving because there is no unbalance anywhere.

So Bill,
This is the reason I wanted to check your circuit closed in a loop. Close the open points and check all connections for voltage while the light still glows then I assume but please check to see that there is still voltage between some of the points after the light goes out.
I hope this picture helps. It is very hard to describe.

here goes picture
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 04, 2008, 05:23:29 AM
@ Jeanna:

The figure I gave you in my earlier response to your question was with the led illuminated and the circuit "closed".  Now, to get a reading after the led goes out, by that do you mean to let it burn for an hour or so off of the cap, and then check?  Or, do you mean to break my circuit by removing the + lead from the annode of the led and then check?  I am sorry to appear so stupid but I want to be clear on what you would like to know.

@ Artic Knight:

I understand what you are saying.  The only thing I might not agree with is the ac (house) current at 60 Hz.  I , like a lot of people, can actually see some 60 cycle effects.  For example, when I got my new computer monitor, it's default refresh rate was 60Hz.  I used it for less than 10 minutes and got a bad headache.  I then adjusted the refresh rate to 85 Hz and now, no problem.  I can't see it in incandescent bulbs but I can see it in flourecent light fixtures. I don't mean the flicker from a bad ballast, I am talking about the on/off of the 60 hz ac.  Now, you say not on/off but rather reverse of current flow, which I know is true but, I believe it also has the effect of essentialy turning on and off as well. I don't know this to be a fact, I am only bringing it up for discussion.  What do you think?  Interesting that you said it does not matter the frequency as long as off as much as on.  This makes perfect sense to me.  If you were in the woods at night with a flashlight, and so was I, and you pulsed your light on and off at whatever cycles, it would last longer than mine would being on all the time.  Like you said, the trick is to find the proper "rate" that gives the "same" light output with extended life. and now enter the joule thief.  I have no idea what might happen with one of these on the cells outside, but, I want to find out.  Thanks.

Bill

Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 04, 2008, 05:52:15 AM
@ Jeanna:
The figure I gave you in my earlier response to your question was with the led illuminated and the circuit "closed".  Now, to get a reading after the led goes out, by that do you mean to let it burn for an hour or so off of the cap, and then check?  Or, do you mean to break my circuit by removing the + lead from the annode of the led and then check?  I am sorry to appear so stupid but I want to be clear on what you would like to know.
Bill
I mean for you to check all the points including with the circuit broken open. I think you have it clipped? I am not asking you to unsolder it, I think.
A - B closed and open
C - D but be sure to get INSIDE the leads so you capture what is going on between the light and cap. and do this with the loop closed and open.

See, what I am thinking is that when you have closed the loop the charge that leaves the light can continue around the loop and recharge the cap. While the cap is recharging the light is still lighting (sooo cooool) then when the cap gets full it begins to discharge and it lights the light and then the charge goes around the loop one more time to refill the cap (while it is lighting the light).

The green one that I have that is made like yours discharges in about 20 seconds. It is really too fast to fumble with meter leads in time to make a reading. This is why I am asking you to do it.

thanks a lot,
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 04, 2008, 06:18:35 AM
@ Jeanna:

OK, I got you.  I never really thought about this but I think you are right.  If the cap. has x power and the led only uses x-whatever, then the rest of the juice continues round back into the cap.  A brilliant circuit.  Too bad I have to admit I just stumbled into it. (sigh) And, you have said that leds will use some power and when the power decreases they will use that.  I have read that elsewhere as well.  This is really fun you know it?  I will do the tests you requested and get back to you.

A side note:  I had this cigarette lighter (cheap, made in China) that had flashing leds on the outside of it.  I just wanted a lighter but, it was chaep and it worked, for a while anyway.  Well, it tore up and I took it apart. (salvage)  I found 2 leds of different colors mounted on a printed circuitboard.  They are very small but will flash alternately from the cap.  And, my regular led will also light while this happens.  I have not yet tried this attached to the cells outside. (18 degrees F here right now)  If I can get them all lighting and flashing outside, I will make a short video and post it on youtube.  Keep up your thinking and experimenting.  I will let you know about the tests on my circuit.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 04, 2008, 07:19:34 AM
@ Jeanna:

OK, I got you.  I never really thought about this but I think you are right.  If the cap. has x power and the led only uses x-whatever, then the rest of the juice continues round back into the cap.  A brilliant circuit.  Too bad I have to admit I just stumbled into it. (sigh)

But see that is the part about the forum think tank. I have been LOOKING for this for years and when I had begun to get close in that class I got distracted and never even tried it. Maybe the teacher told me to forget it it wouldn't work. I had not considered it was possible anymore. And the all of a sudden thanks to you there it was!!
And, you have said that leds will use some power and when the power decreases they will use that.  I have read that elsewhere as well.  This is really fun you know it?  I will do the tests you requested and get back to you.

  Keep up your thinking and experimenting.  I will let you know about the tests on my circuit.

Bill

Thanks
Yea this is really fun. I look forward to the measurements AND the video.

I just put together my joule thief. I hope the rain lets up enough tomorrow so I can use it for a light between carbon granules and Mg block. It is set up with a white. I will make it with a red which I just found.

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: cub3 on January 04, 2008, 08:21:10 AM
Hi All,

I may be very far off topic. Trying to find purity ie %  of Magnesium in fire starters. 

In Aussie land. the last thing we need are fire starters !!

What is the magnesium composition / % of various automotive components

A site which id rather long, do not dismiss immediately.

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/frontend.php/question?qid=20071016194934AA0QBBc

Den
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 04, 2008, 09:42:28 PM
@ All:

I found this on the net today.

http://www.anodesystems.com/pro5.html (http://www.anodesystems.com/pro5.html)

Look at this quote from the anode site:

"A 17 pound magnesium anode can produce 1 amp of d.c. current for 1 year; therefore, if it produced 1/10 amp, it would last 10 years compared to 3-1/2 years for a 5 pound anode. A 17 pound anode placed in 1,000 ohm-cm clay would generate 170 M.A. of current and would last only 6 years. If the clay's resistivity is 2,000 ohm-cm, it would last 11 years. In 10,000 ohm-cm dry sand, it would last 52 years. A normal current output is under 100 M.A. However, this engineer has seen the natural current output of a magnesium anode reach 200 milliamps (M.A.)"

Evidently these are used when installing underground tanks but check out that it gives 1 AMP!!  Even the 200 mA figure sounds good to me. 

I will go back and see if I can find any pricing on these.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: IndianaBoys on January 04, 2008, 10:02:39 PM
http://www.anodesystems.com/order.html

19a ANODE, 17 lb. Magnesium
With 10 ft. wire - Shipping Not Included ea $ 54.50

IndianaBoys
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 04, 2008, 10:08:12 PM
@ IndianaBoys:

Thanks, I saw that when I went back.  I am still checking around and have found some even cheaper.  They make magnesium anodes for hot water heaters (rod shape) and they should not be all that much.  I wish I knew this a while ago. Thanks for posting it.

This might be a great step forward in upping our power.  That 1 amp output for a year quoted on the anodesystems site did not say anything about a cathode spaced away from the anode on the n/s meridian so, maybe we can get even more???  I need to check into this.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on January 04, 2008, 10:30:16 PM
G'day everybody,

To make it easier for those of you who are following my current line of research (the Stubblefield series) I have just uploaded my posts on the subject onto my website. This way everything is presented as a total project in sequential form. I will keep it updated as the need arises.

the URL is  http://keelytech.com/stubblefield.html

any comments are appreciated

Greetings from Down Under

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 04, 2008, 11:35:52 PM
@Bill   What a fabulous find!  I have a lot of clay in my soil here. (But not up in my mountain where all this is going.  :) )
Did you see or does anyone know how to calculate the resistivity of one's soil?
I have some mason's lime in the shed. Perhaps if I mix that into the soil I will get more charge?

Hans,   Thank you for re-providing your link.I finally got there. Great work and information.

I called Don's welding which I found in the phone book. Don is retired and wouldn't take any money for the 4 carbon rods he GAVE me. So, they are 1/4" and covered with a light coating of copper which I will get off somehow. I will take advice on that from anyone who knows.

Bill, Did you ever take a separate reading on that composite of nails you made? did it seem to be as strong as its surface area would predict?

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on January 04, 2008, 11:50:59 PM
Thanks for the flowers Jeanna,

Go to an electronics store and get some ferric chloride, they use it to etch circuit boards. Just immerse the rods in it, it will take the copper off without damaging the graphite. It is cheap.

Hope this helps.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Artic_Knight on January 05, 2008, 12:00:16 AM
Hey Guys you gotta try this!!!

i got 0.05 volt at 0.1 miliamp  i took a iron nail (plain slightly rusted) wrapped 15 turn copper wire around it, on one end of the copper coil (around the same nail that is in the ground) i attatched the neg to my amp meter, the positive i attatched to the nail itself, it got that reading above!!! why? the coil alone and nail alone did not get these readings but when the coil was around the nail it did this!

on a side note i origionally tried the 2 coils around this nail to get a step up transformer, i got nothing for some bizzar reason. i stripped the insulation off the wire but nada. however while playing with these coils the ground voltage went up (afterwards) by 0.08 volt... odd.

i need to finish that tesla coil, i wonder how it will work.

also i wrapped a piece of wire insulated once around both of my poles and attatched the amp meter, it generated 0.02 volt. that is wierd too!  i think maybe the nail was acting as an antenna to tap the electricity and allow it to move more freely into the atmosphere. that makes me feel a little more confident using a coil+antenna like the tesla version.
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: hansvonlieven on January 05, 2008, 12:08:11 AM
G'day artic,

Looks like you found that elusive AC component that Stubblefield and Bryan are talking about. Well done.

Let's see where this one will lead.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on January 05, 2008, 12:47:42 AM
Hey folks make sure to check this out it doesent directly apply to us but some really interesting things in this page.. http://magnetism.otc.co.nz/EarthGrid.htm (http://magnetism.otc.co.nz/EarthGrid.htm)
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2008, 01:54:52 AM
This should be a picture of this evening's experiments.  Very hard to tell but it is 2 leds flashing, a red one and a green one.  I have uploaded a video to youtube which is processing as I type this.  I will post the link when it's ready.  the video is terrible but you can see two leds flashing.

Thanks Jeanna.  I have not done a test using just the nails.  I have just been dumping that into the whole deal and it does help with the mA reading.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2008, 02:00:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vixrFpm0p_g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vixrFpm0p_g)

Above is the link to the video I just submitted to youtube.  the leds (flashing) were operating off of the capacitor circuit attached to the earth battery cells.  I finally obtained another magnesium block, actually, I bought 2 more, so now I am back to using the two carbon rods tied toether and now two magnesium blocks tied together as well.  Good volts and decent mA.  (1.8 vdc at about 2 mA.)

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on January 05, 2008, 02:34:56 AM
Great work Bill!!!
  So thats two led's in parallel with the cap hooked to your electrodes?
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2008, 02:54:13 AM
@ Joe:

Thanks.  Here is a picture of the circuit I took during the experiment using the flash on the camera.  This is a small printed circuit board containing 2 leds. (1 green, 1 red)  I salvaged it from a cigarette lighter (made in China) that quit working.  It is wired with the minues lead from the circuit board to the - side of the cap., and the + lead from the circuit board to the + side of the cap.  The jumper wires you see in the photo are attached to the earth cells. (Red +, blue -)

Joe, did you check out that magnesium anode I posted a few posts back?  1 amp.!!! For about $50.00 (USD) and it already has a copper wire lead built into it.  A guy could make some serious power using this in the earth battery configuration that we have been attempting to perfect.

@ Jeanna:

Excellent job locating your carbon rods!!  With Hans's suggestion on the chemical to strip them, you should see some big improvements on your cell when tied to the mag. block.  Excellent!!  Hans is a great guy to have on the team.  We are very fortunate.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 05, 2008, 03:48:48 AM
@Bill
Thanks for the video. And a good idea. I think I will look for my 2 way LED or solder a second LED backwards into my crazy looping circuit to see if I can watch what is going on.

Wasn't the other red LED still in your circuit? It looks to be there in the flash still.

@Arctic Knight
Quote
one end of the copper coil (around the same nail that is in the ground) i attatched the neg to my amp meter, the positive i attatched to the nail itself,

Does this mean that one wire is attached to the meter and the other wire is tucked into the coil? Did you attach anything to the pos lead of the amp meter?  I'm sorry if I am being a pest. I can't replicate this without knowing these things!

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on January 05, 2008, 03:49:22 AM
@ bill that looks cool  ;D I couldn't find where  it said 1 amp and how it was used in there corrosion protection sys but it looked huge....  ;D

Hopefully all you folks with good weather are enjoying it.. im in about 6 - 8 ft of snow accumulation . Keep the good work rolling.. and im happy we are all steering towards a jule theif / mini tpu  type devices as a simple solution to take small pulses from the cap get some usable power from it.  Although with larger plates and or rods and or whatever style electrode your using readings are sure to increase as well so i say both paths be continued by those that have the way or means to. Thanks again folks ;D
                                                            Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2008, 04:00:58 AM
@ Joe:

The below is copied and pasted from my reply (734) on the previous page.  This was copied and pasted from the link I posted.

Look at this quote from the anode site:

"A 17 pound magnesium anode can produce 1 amp of d.c. current for 1 year; therefore, if it produced 1/10 amp, it would last 10 years compared to 3-1/2 years for a 5 pound anode. A 17 pound anode placed in 1,000 ohm-cm clay would generate 170 M.A. of current and would last only 6 years. If the clay's resistivity is 2,000 ohm-cm, it would last 11 years. In 10,000 ohm-cm dry sand, it would last 52 years. A normal current output is under 100 M.A. However, this engineer has seen the natural current output of a magnesium anode reach 200 milliamps (M.A.)"


And they were not even considering the stuff we have already learned.

@ Jeanna:

In the photo I took tonight (and posted a few posts back) you should be able to see, maybe, that the positive lead (anode) of my original led is open and not involved in the circuit. (my mechanical switch, crude, but effective) It looks like it is there bcause it is, just not connected to the circuit. I have it soldered and didn't want to heat everything up like the cap and led by desoldering and resoldrering, so I used the + lead to make or break the led (original ) circuit.  This help in charging the cap. faster.  I should have had this on during Christmas!!!!

BIll
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 05, 2008, 04:41:48 AM
Bill
Quote
In the photo I took tonight (and posted a few posts back) you should be able to see, maybe, that the positive lead (anode) of my original led is open and not involved in the circuit. (my mechanical switch, crude, but effective) It looks like it is there bcause it is, just not connected to the circuit.
Got it.

Thanks

jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2008, 04:57:40 AM
@ Jeanna:

I think you posted that you got 4 (free) carbon rods?  1/4" dia?  Once you strip the copper off them you could band them together and have more surfce area than my 1" rod.  How long are they?  You might even be able to mask off about 1/2" at the top of each rod to save the copper so then you can solder your leads to them.  Or, you can make a ring type device like I did.  I really think you are going to like those rods with your mag. block.  I would bet you will have no problem lighting an led using one of your caps in the "crazy" circuit configuration.  I am seriously considering obtaining one of the 17 pound magnesium anodes with the bag of chemicals surrounding it.  It would be a big hole to dig in the garden to bury it but, can you imagine what we could do with any where near an amp coming out of the cell?  Then we bring in the tpu and the joule thief and possibly other coil arrangements.  We will probably be shut down from the electric company.  Ha ha.

@ Artic Knight:

I am glad you are finding results with coil configurations. I think we will be moving that way soon and will will need all of the hands on experience that we can get.  I have no idea what was happening there.  As Hans said, this is possibly close to what Stubblefield knew would work.  Keep up the great work.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 05, 2008, 07:09:44 AM
@ Jeanna:

I think you posted that you got 4 (free) carbon rods?  1/4" dia?  Once you strip the copper off them you could band them together and have more surfce area than my 1" rod.  How long are they? 

Bill
Thanks for mentioning that I could leave the tops copper. I may not have thought of that in time. They are about 12" long.   

I got the ferric Cl that Hans suggested. I didn't get it into the shed before dark, however, and now there is a wild storm outside. I may have to wait another day or so. I will be watching you with that Mg anode. It looks really promissing. Look at what we are doing for 2 volts!!

This is going to be good for me to learn about coils. I don't really know more since I wound that toroid in the joule thief yesterday but I feel differently about it. I am ready to wind a nail. Maybe AK can explain that last unhooked wire to me or maybe I will make something up ;D Ha! That is always fun.

Do you have any thoughts about changing the ionic constitution of the soil?  Adding limestone is good for plants and good for the soil in general. It sounds as though it may create a more moveable charge as well, according to the anode folks.

Thanks,
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2008, 07:27:37 AM
@ Jeanna:

Quote below from the anode website

The backfill consists of 75% powdered gypsum, 20% powdered bentonite clay and 5% sodium sulfate. This mixture is a low cost, nonhazardous, electrically conductive earth backfill.

I don't know the answer to your question.  They said they are using this mixture surrounding the mag. anode in a bag to lower resistance in the earth.  I don't know if we really need that or not.

I too am excited by the thought of getting into coils.  The problem I have always had with coil schematics and drawings is that, if you wind a bifilar coil (two disimilar metals, like Stubblefield) by definition that gives you 4 ends of wire to be connected somewhere but I can never figure out where.  Do you tie them together?  Do you tie the same metal wires together and then have 2 wires for connection leads?  I know this is my ignorance showing but, I have never pretended to know more than I do and I am not going to start now, ha ha.  I also don't understand when someone says "make a coil with 60 windings (turns) on a form."  OK, now do theses windings go from one end to the other like a barber pole?  Or, do you start at one end of the form, and when you get to the other, then start back over the first layer of wire? (Like a bait fishing reel)  And, to add to it, in Stubblefield's design, I believe he said to insulate the two disimilar metal windings from each other. (He was using bare wire I believe)  How the heck do you wind a coil like that?  I am sure others here can answer these questions which are probably coil winding 101 but I am lost.

It will take me a while to find the $$ for the mag. anode and chemical bag but, the potential (no punn intended) is too good to pass up I think.

One thought to change the conductivity of your soil might be to add some rock salt to it. (like sea water)  Or, you could do what Stubblefield did and add some ground up pitchblende, (uranium ore) but I would not advise it.  I will be dreaming about that huge anode tonight.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 05, 2008, 03:57:21 PM
Well, I have finally arrived home, and my carbon and magnesium have not yet arrived.   :(
So, I am going to the local hardware store and pick up a few other things to try in the mean times, and will also test some coil ideas, etc.

@ Bill,
I thought the idea was to garner as much energy from these telluric currents and not have to add ingredients to the ground to garner more power, besides electrodes and coils?

I for one would want something that can be used anywhere, by anyone, without having to purchase large magnesium blocks and additives. Just my two cents.   ;)  There are all sorts of ways to make your own battery, that would provide some power, but I am interested in only garnering these telluric currents and/or the earths magnetic field. 

There are still so many things to try and experiment, with your present setup, before moving on to something new.  IMHO.

Keep up the great work!

@Hans,

That last find was a jewel.  Notice the Stubblefield patent, where he talks about connecting the iron and copper windings at one end.  This would form that exact same bifilar coil written about, but the earth provided the source current perhaps through the secondary windings of the Stubblefield coil.  Food for thought.



Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on January 05, 2008, 05:53:11 PM
@bruce

Fully agreed, i want a small device in the end that anyone with enough strength to open a cap off of a two litre can push into the ground.. I imagine in the compact device i will sharpen the ends of the electrodes in the ground for easy insertion. Or possible two little electrode inserts to space however one would like with strong connectors to go into a main unit. In hopes of keeping this little guy self contained and Still continuing the larger electrode path for permanent home install or camp ;D
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Localjoe on January 05, 2008, 06:00:54 PM
@ Hans quick question on the wrap that is the outermost on the Stubblefeild coil .. say the third one that is always in debate.. It was noted i think that it was steel wire or iron.. If this outer thrid layer connects to the core of this sink... the iron core or steel whatever was used... It is very reminiscent of leedscalins supposed ultra efficient electromagnet.. the key was tying the metal core to a cylindrical metal housing outside the the normal coils... Stublefield may have just used wire so as to excite it ...   This seems much too interesting to pass by....
                                                                                                                          Joe
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: yaz on January 05, 2008, 06:20:57 PM

Awesome work everyone!

I can't wait until the snow melts around here, so I can join in the experiments (fun)!!
I ran across a site today, with 5, "Lost Science" patents from the 1870's on how to make/improve earth batteries. They were making enough electricity to run signaling apparatus and alarms!?

Number 2  patent states that "zinc and copper partly embedded in sulphur, a more intense current will be created". Reminds me.. I read in an old chemistry book somewhere that, "If we pour melted sulphur into an insulated metallic cup, we shall find, after it concretes that the sulphur and cup will be both electrified."
Where can I get sulphur? Same patent also uses magnets wound with coils!
Definite must read!  I love "out of the box" thinking!

http://giuli.com/earthbat/
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2008, 06:35:40 PM
@ Bruce and Joe:

I don't disagree with your points, they are good ones.  I just want to get the power up to something anyone could view as useful, and then work on consolidating and compacting it.  Kind of like computers, if they tried to build ENIAC (which took up a large room) to fit on a desktop as a design parameter, we would still be waiting for them to build it. I don't have any extra $$ at this time so it may be a moot point.

I had a dream last night that I took my two magnesium blocks and drilled two holes  in each block such that my zinc spikes could go through the holes and make a frame. (Kind of like what Freezer was doing)  then, I was going to wrap the zinc with bare copper wire, which would give me 4 wire ends , or two, depending if I jumped the wire over to the other zinc spike or not.  I am not sure what do do with these ends unless I use them (tied together) as an attachment lead?  My thoughts are that both the mag. blocks and the zinc are on the extreme minus end of the scale and possibly the coil arrangement with the copper wire (with zinc cores) might "gather" more mA.  You guys think this is worth a try?

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2008, 07:01:59 PM
Here is yet another really crude drawing to hopefully explain what I was trying to describe in my last post.  I have the stuff here to try this today if I want to.  It won't cost anything but time.

     ps I did not get Freezer and Artic Knight confused again (Ha ha)  I borrowed Freezer's plates cell idea and used
              Artic Knight's wire wrapping coil test idea as well.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: jeanna on January 05, 2008, 08:41:58 PM
Here is yet another really crude drawing to hopefully explain what I was trying to describe in my last post.  I have the stuff here to try this today if I want to.  It won't cost anything but time.
Bill

DO IT
jeanna
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 06, 2008, 02:45:01 AM
@ Bill

That looks like a great idea to try.  I look forward to hearing the results.

While waiting on my magnesium and carbon rod, I tried several experiments today.

I tried using a carpenters pencil, sharpened at both ends as one electrode, and a zinc nail for my other electrode.  The reading was 750 mv.  No ma.  Zero!

I then tried a mini Stubblefield type coil that I wound.  I saw 1.2 volts on the primary, which was five layers of thirty wraps each, bifilar 20 awg magnet and uninsulated steel wire, around three zinc nails.  Secondary was of 20 awg magnet wire.  I am thinking now I should maybe overwrap that with more steel wire.

It only registered voltage, as it went under ground.  But, still, NO ma.   ::)  And that was sad.

So, I think there is something to the bifilar copper and steel, but still missing amperage.  I hope that the carbon 1/2" rod and magnesium blocks will provide better.


2008 Cheers,



Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 06, 2008, 03:53:35 AM
@ Bruce:

That's very interesting.  Were you alinged on a global orientation? Or just picked a few spots?  I would have thought you would have seen at least some registration of mA.  But, interesting that you achieved a pretty good volt reading with the primary.  So, in the really terrible sketch of my latest crazy idea, where would you connect the wires from the windings?  I guess, all bets are off here anyway so maybe a few guesses and several different configurations are in order.  The way I see it, I will have two zinc rods wrapped and I can either join them at one end by jumping over to the next rod, or, keep them isolated.  If isolated, I will then have 4 wire ends to do what with?  I can make it like series and just continue on down the second zinc spike while winding but then, I will have 2 wire ends.  Do I tie them together?  Do I "ground" one to a magnisium end block?  Should I tie them together (like in the picture) and use them for the connection lead?  I guess this is what experiments are for.  Any advice you might have would be appreciated.  Thanks.  P.S.  Where is a good source for copper wire?  the home stores around here don't carry it unless I buy romex and strip the ground wire out of it.  Or, should I use steel wire?  I know, too many questions and not enough answers.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on January 06, 2008, 04:11:12 AM
@ Bill

That looks like a great idea to try.  I look forward to hearing the results.

While waiting on my magnesium and carbon rod, I tried several experiments today.

I tried using a carpenters pencil, sharpened at both ends as one electrode, and a zinc nail for my other electrode.  The reading was 750 mv.  No ma.  Zero!

Bruce

Did you try wetting the ground around the metals?  I believe water might be responsible for the current, while the soil acts as a capacitor.  In the pics you posted, the soil seems very dry, while Bill's soil seems moist.

Bill, you can also try to power alarm clocks or digital clocks, as they take small current.  Ive managed to power a small digital alarm clock by 4 of my plate cells in series.  The clock I'm using uses two AA's in series (3volts).
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Bruce_TPU on January 06, 2008, 04:28:32 AM
@ Bill
I was setup polar North and South.  When you checked your amperage, did you simply connect the leads to your voltmeter and turn to ma's? 

I was disappointed that all I got were zero's.  I spent a number of hours working on this.  I will try again tomorrow.

How deep are your electrodes in the ground?

@ Freezer
My ground was moist already.  And I posted no pictures today.  Nothing worth taking a picture of.  ;)


I need some amperage.  I will try a new spot tomorrow.

Bruce
Title: Re: Earth battery expermients
Post by: Freezer on J