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## Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: hartiberlin on October 11, 2007, 11:28:41 PM

Title: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 11, 2007, 11:28:41 PM
Have a look at this:

Amazing !

I hope Dr. Stiffler will publish the exact circuit.

Regards, Stefan.

P.S:His website is at:
www.stifflerscientific.com
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: FreeEnergy on October 11, 2007, 11:33:05 PM
need a diagram for this  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 11, 2007, 11:46:11 PM
Seems to be a factor of around 170 x more output than input.

If you apply 2 Volts peek to peek via a 10 KOhm resistor
(if it is high frequency, the 10 pF cap mentioned,might just
be conducting..so I neglected it..) so the input power
is around 400 mikroWatts.

The output power is 2.73 Volts x 25 miliamps = 68.25 milliWatts.

So ouput / input is around 170.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Super on October 11, 2007, 11:56:34 PM
Quote
The next vid in the next 48 hours will be of great interest. I will post circuits on my web site so that I am covered under my disclaimer for people that try it that do not have the tools or experience to do so. You are a member so check the site...

... can somebody please give me a link to his web site (pm or post) ?

thx, super
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 12:00:04 AM
Okay, here:

http://www.drstiffler.com/

He also invented a super electrolyzer !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Super on October 12, 2007, 12:14:53 AM
Thanks Stefan  ;D

... don't know why, but this guy is a little bit suspect to me,
anyway, looking to find his circuit.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 12:41:48 AM
MR. Amos,
he stated, that in series with this signal generator he has a 10 KOhm
resistor and a 10 pF cap.
Assuming the cap will conduct at his used frequency,
there is still the 10 KOhm resistor as a preresistor.
So, 10 KOhm at 2 Volts is 400 mikroWatts,
probably less, beacuse you have to calculate in the duty
cycle.

So do you think you can run the LED this bright with just 400 mikroWatts ?

He stated on his description that this is a blue LED
with 2,73 Volts and 25 mA.

Maybe these are just the normal specs of the LED and
not the actual measured data at the LED, but the LED at least
looks brighter than just driving it with 400 mikroWatts.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 12:53:27 AM
Dr.Stiffler just answered to me regarding the choke:

"It is in series on the drain side. It is necessary."

Regarding the ferrite transformer:

"... it happens to cause the core to ring at the 4th (of 3.58mHz) and the
MOSFET starts up as a parametric pump. I adjust the phase with the FE beads
and the circuit is totally AC under its own power. Complicated to view the
thing, but with care is possible. Has a field around it that is quite large.

This is a core thing and causes a parametric feedback."

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: callanan on October 12, 2007, 01:40:42 AM
This is Sweet.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: TheOne on October 12, 2007, 04:19:13 AM
this is impressive, i would like the plan I try it !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 12, 2007, 04:59:21 AM
Yes. This would be nice. I really want to see a control schematic. It is not difficult to charge small NiCads with the circuit they are driving -also light an LED while doing it but frequency control when disconnecting the batteries must be a trick.

Also he publishes the same opinions I have on time and other subjects. His 'time' in the spotlite is probably limited.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on October 12, 2007, 05:11:33 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 01:05:22 PM
Hans,

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 01:15:57 PM
Dr.Stiffler just replied to me(he has no account overhere yet):

>> He stated on his description that this is a blue LED
>> >>with 2,73 Volts and 25 mA.

He may be right from a spec sheet statement, I think mine are spec of 2.76
and 20mA. Yes it is measured across a 1 ohm 1% with a floating digital
scope.

If he is so inclined I would suggest to him that he power one at 400uA and
25mA and see the difference. Additionally he must consider that the input
signal is also limited by the gate capacity of the MOSFET, which is less
than the input cap used.

Looking forward to the skeptics, I think its call jealousy rather than
science.

Regarding downtime of the webservers:
Denial of Service
My web sites have been shut down twice already.

www.drstiffler.com was first followed by www.stifflerscientific.com

Seems like someone is unhappy...

Both sites back up for now.
Title: Feature Page at PESWiki
Post by: sterlinga on October 12, 2007, 07:14:07 PM

Feel free to use this page to summarize this circuit, its performance, instructions, replications, theories.

Sterling
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 08:00:10 PM
I received this email from Dr. Stiffler and he asked me to forward it to over here:

Exactly what have I claimed in any of my YouTube videos that should subject
me to what has started with the release of CE4? If one wants to discredit me
or attempt to in some way, fine, that is your option and your right to
opinion or interpretation of fact or non-fact. I have no control over
anyone's thoughts, yet I wonder why people get so upset when someone does
not even make a claim.

What I am very upset about is the perverts that have taken my web sites down
and the ones that capture the YouTube automated response page and try to get
me to go through their covert envelope to obtain my passwords. Hey if you
don't like the video, just don't watch them, there are plenty other funny
ones out there. You do damage to my sites, I get upset, you send covert
redirect email, I get upset, what is your point. Where is you video, put
yours on, go ahead and attempt to discredit me, but stop with the damage.

Before you bring my sites down again, read the reason I closed it off unless
I can track you, the reason is very clear.

I HAVE NOT CLAIMED OU! OU does not exist, the universe has a finite amount
of energy in various forms, some of which we are privileged to currently
understand and use, others that tempt and tease at out logical senses, yet
we can not create energy. All we can do is find, understand and hopefully
make use of the other forms of energy yet untapped and yet only dreamed of.

Give me a break. I don't sell books, cds or anything else to the general
public, except for some pdf papers that are very cheap and the \$4 to \$5 cost
only covers the conversion from original form to pdf and the sending to
those that want them. IN FACT I do not sell anything on CE4 and will not. If
I can't be allowed to release what I want to, in my way and over the time
period I want, then I have in the past just said its not worth it and closed
it off, giving plenty of info to call me a kook and shame like others
accused of the same.

So whoever you are, "CUT THE CRAP", you don't like, don't look, go pursue
you other interests, I'm not making you do anything and I am not harming
anyone.

It's your choice, take it or leave it on face value. I'm old, retired and
answer only to myself, so put me in whatever envelope you want.
Title: Re: Feature Page at PESWiki
Post by: linda933 on October 12, 2007, 09:34:38 PM

Feel free to use this page to summarize this circuit, its performance, instructions, replications, theories.

Sterling

Thanks, Sterling and Stefan for presenting this and giving Dr. Stiffler a safe place to disclose this work.

I hope that Dr. Stiffler will follow up and publish the full schematic and materials details for his blue LED experiment (Video #4).  It looks pretty simple yet seems to have amazing results.  A simple schematic and some information about the special transformer core material and windings, along with some information on the drive frequency would make it possible to replicate this, I would think.

It would be too sad if he just left us all guessing and speculating after such a neat and mysterious demonstration!

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on October 12, 2007, 09:50:46 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 12, 2007, 10:08:58 PM
and I own a bat, just tell me whose legs need breakin.  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on October 13, 2007, 03:22:56 AM
Does anybody know what frequency and waveform he's getting out of the signal generator?

Thanks,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: lancaIV on October 13, 2007, 03:49:32 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 13, 2007, 06:27:18 AM
Can't wait here either for the schematic. I had a neat little toy that met the same description - just a few days ago I turned it off. Apparent charging of batteries and closed loop for days on end (power supply was the same batteries). I walked away one morning with the volts showing at .6 (six tenths) from two series AAA NiCads. I came back that night and they were at 2.6. So I added a flashing LED for load. The batteries were down to .95 the next morning and it ran for two more days before the voltage was so low the oscillator quit.

So, I'm hoping he has a secret he can share.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 13, 2007, 07:11:52 AM
im sure that this is simply a tesla one wire transmision line, hence the free end of the coil. There is no majic frequency he is using, its probably faster than 500kh and im sure he was frequency sweeping to find the sweet spot on his particular coil.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: b0rg13 on October 13, 2007, 09:10:03 AM
So, I'm hoping he has a secret he can share.

is it just me or do secrets only come out when something can be used for war to make a threat(nukes)..or to tax us ?(big list)

..but any way good luck on the secret :)..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: exnihiloest on October 13, 2007, 11:17:15 AM
Thanks Stefan  ;D

... don't know why, but this guy is a little bit suspect to me,
anyway, looking to find his circuit.

Me too. It is extremely easy for a ham radio operator to power any setup at a distance of some meters. You just have to put a resonnant circuit (as this one with the ferrite in the video) near an antenna or near another resonnant circuit connected to your TX.
In video part I, we see the used frequency is 3.57 Mhz which is just in the ham radio band of 80 mtrs. Coincidence?
Without shematics that would allow us to duplicate the circuit, I remain suspicious.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 03:53:30 PM
Dr.Stiffler has posted now the circuit at his website:

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

www.stifflerscientific.com

There are also some scopehots at his website.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 03:55:42 PM
Dr. Stiffler posted this as the parts list:

R1     1 ohm 1% 1/4W Carbon Composition
R2    10K ohm 1/4W Carbon Film
R3    50 ohm 1/4W Carbon Film
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: c0mster on October 13, 2007, 04:24:07 PM
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

C
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 04:30:59 PM
Okay,
C2 is 10 pF as he already told us.

The coils B1, B2, B3, B4 are just these

C1 is the cap that stores the "virtual power supply voltage".
I have to watch the video again to see, what kind of cap this was.

D3 is the blue diode with R1 being a shunt resistor to measure the
current through it. ( not seen in the CE4 youtube video)

D1 and D2 are probably the 1N914 he spoke in the first video
or 1 N4148 diodes he spoke of in the second video.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 04:38:47 PM
Here are the scope shots.
Dr.Stiffler gave the okay to copy it to over here.
But he will soon update the page again, so also
have a look at his webpage.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Super on October 13, 2007, 04:40:53 PM
Quote
*The statements that this circuit may be a manifestation of Cold Electricity may be in error. Continued testing of the circuit has not detected particular artifacts that should be observed in a 'Cold Electricity' circuit.

hmm, did he revoked his claims about CE ?

Ok, seems that all needed parts can be found in a common cheap radio,
wondering because it is nothing else than a Avramenko setup?!?

:o
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 05:15:11 PM
Dr.Stiffler just updated his page with added parts list:

R1     1 ohm 1% 1/4W Carbon Composition
R2    10K ohm 1/4W Carbon Film
R3    50 ohm 1/4W Carbon Film

C2    10pf 500V +/-5% Dipped Silver Mica

D1    1N4148 100VRRM 0.5A (Switching)
D2    1N4148 100VRRM 0.5A (Switching)
D3    Blue LED 2.76V @ 20mA

L1    2.2uH, Core Diameter 6.49mm Coil Width2.80mm Wire 0.58mm enamal coated    Picture below

L2    Transistor radio loop antenna coil and core, origin unknown, manufacture unknown most likely China.

59uH free of core +/- 15%
686uH on core +/- 15%

The wire is to multi-strand, size smaller than a human hair, inter-woven with Cambric or Cotton and bundle is corron covered.
Picture below

B1,B2,B3,B4

0.551" Length
0.140" Diameter
0.025" core dis.

I guess C1 is the 400 pF cap he spoke of in his first video.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 05:16:50 PM
Here are the 2 pics of
L1
and
L2
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 13, 2007, 08:02:41 PM
who called it??? ONE WIRE TRANSMISION, no point in even looking at this, we already know about it. Tesla did it a while ago, its being done on the pyroclay thread, tesla coils use it. It DOES have OU implications if pulses are short and quick, but maybe 10 posts on teh same topic is good, more people will listen..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 08:39:05 PM
Dr.Stiffler updated his page further.

Now the missing parts:

C1     0.01uf 1kv +/- 20% ceramic Z5U temperature coefficient

L3     9 turns of 0.018" enamal coated wire over the top and in the center of L2. L2 is covered with one layer of paper tape.
Care when winding, not to tight to damage L2.

M1     2N7000

Attached are the pictures of L3 wound over L2 on the ferrite core
and the circuit  board and the parts locations.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Super on October 13, 2007, 11:06:18 PM
hmm, i think this guy has really bad problems with his server, can't open the sites again  :(

My tip to him:

Would be good if Dr.Stiffler talks to his provider and let them do the legal work on his
website problem - if it's really a DoS attack!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 14, 2007, 12:21:18 AM
Hmm,
well maybe he is over his
daily traffic limit as this circuit is on page one
on the Freeenergynews website !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 14, 2007, 01:34:00 AM
Dr. Stiffler updated his page again.

Plug Board Capacities

The two power rails that are parallel have an inner capacity of 40.8pF, additionally each rail has a capacity to the aluminum back plate. When components are connected they also have an inner strip capacity as indicated.

These capacities are a part of the overall circuit and must be accounted for in its design. If the circuit is not constructed on a similar board with similar capacities then additional capacitance may be required to replace that not supplied by the board.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: sveinutne on October 14, 2007, 10:22:23 AM
It would be more convincing if Dr. Stiffler could remove the two connections to the scope. I know it should not give any power, but it would be better to have no wires going to the board. If it still light up, it must be some radiation he is picking up.
Svein
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Super on October 14, 2007, 01:10:03 PM
hmm, i'm still iffy about this because the frequency is very high (short wave, haarp uses 3,39 mhz).
while doing the test, try to use an faraday cage and no outgoing connections ...

maybe we can use haarp to power the led  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 14, 2007, 06:23:48 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on October 14, 2007, 10:59:05 PM
Well, the video was pretty cool, but now that we have the schematic and parts list, it's easy to see that the circuit is powered by the signal generator.Ã‚Â  It's capacitively coupled through C2, bypassing the 10K resistor, and then through the input capacitance of the 2N7000 MOSFET, which is quite high.

R2 keeps the gate-to-source voltage around zero, and the data sheet for that MOSFET (http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/vishay/70226.pdf, for example) shows that the added 1V p-p signal from the signal generator is not enough to make it conduct at all, so capacitive coupling to B4 and L1 is its only function.

The inductances, C1, and other capacitances form a resonant circuit through which the signal generator drives the step-up transformer formed by L2 and L3.

L3 transmits the power to the LED at high voltage through one wire, which is pretty cool, and the D1+D2+D3 circuit picks it up.Ã‚Â  I'm not able to analyze this part very well, but I'd guess that it uses the stray capacitiances beween the parts of the breadboard that Dr. Stiffler has already mentioned.

All in all, this circuit is pretty wierd.Ã‚Â  I wonder why anyone would build such a thing?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Perraultium on October 14, 2007, 11:37:01 PM
"All in all, this circuit is pretty wierd.  I wonder why anyone would build such a thing?"

Um... Maybe he is searching for a way to create a free energy device? Maybe that search would require something outside the box?

I feel so sorry for Mr. Stiffler. He is so down to earth, experienced and helpful and he asked for nothing in return.

There are people, such as Bruce Perrault claiming they were playing with something like that the other day and writing things like "His time in the spotlight will be short". Wow... That flavor of crazy only comes with one name.

Here is a reality check for Bruce Perrault. Remember the photo of your Perraultium element discovery? You know, when the picture was enlarged turned out to be a lemon with two probes shoved into it?

And you have the balls to question someone else's integrity?

This site is crawling with people like that and I doubt Ron will be helping out any more. Now ask yourself, Are the people that detract without building the circuit just psychos needing attention or do they earn their living making sure nobody credible ever steps out to help? Ask yourself why Hartman does not run them off? He will run off someone like me that exposes con artist and nuts though.

Mr. Stiffler is real, he is credible, he has a great deal to share and he damn sure never discovered Perraultium. Now back off psychos! If you have something to say, say it with a breadboard, meter scope and be prepared to be sliced to pieces if you are wrong or misquoted by others.

Me

"When life hands you lemons, make perraultium. - The high energy drink."
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 15, 2007, 12:59:09 AM
Dr. Stiffler somemore notes on his page.
Here they are:

History

The immediate questions are: What is this device (circuit)? What can it do? Is it Free Energy? Is it OU?

First let me explain my view on a couple of topics that most people have heard or read about at one time or another, they are; OU or Over Unity, FE or Free Energy, COP or Coefficient of Performance.

The two that are most relevant to this device are OU and FE, let me explain. The standard meaning applied to OU or Over Unity is that you get back more than you put in. A simple example is you go to the bank and deposit \$10 and return another day to withdraw it. The bank gives you back \$15, OU in a simplistic form.

The concept of FE or Free Energy is that you obtain energy to power your car, home, tv or whatever and do not incur a cost for the energy, zero power bills. In keeping with our first example, you go to a bank you have never deposited money with and they give you \$10.

Let me now explain my view on Over Unity and Free Energy.

In my view of the Universe, it contains a finite amount of Potential Energy, I fully side with the current scientific view that you can not create or destroy energy. Additionally I believe as man continues to evolve and science expands it horizons that we will find many ways to tap into and utilize sources of energy that some only dream of.

Man will find doorways to energy sources far exceeding fossil fuels or nuclear sources that currently support our existence. This new energy source will not be Free; it will not fit the definition of Free Energy. In reality man did not pay for fossil fuel sources, but he must pay to obtain them, therein explains why the term Free Energy has no meaning, Fee does not exist, nowhere in the Universe will you ever find Free Energy, you will always have a cost.

Now for OU or Over Unity, well again in my opinion this idea is in error. If you think you are getting something for nothing then you have not looked back far enough in the chain of events leading up to the specific observational point in time. Simply stated in a Law derived by Newton, 'For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction'. This most certainly applies to potential energies of all forms, current and hypothetical. Conversion of energy into a kinetic form does indeed ripple in effect both forward and backward in time.

So now that I have explained that I do not adhere to the concepts of OU and FE lets move forward with the understanding that OU and FE are erroneous views on what will eventually become a common straight forward method of accessing and using a new form of energy. A form that already exists, that is intimately entwined with all other forms and passes through multiple conversion processes to return to its original potential form after being manifested in a kinetic form.

Now to this specific circuit and what it does and is.

Alexander V. Frolov{1} , titled "The Work that is Created by Means of Potential Field", taken from the Report on the International Conference ?New Ideas in Natural Sciences? St.-Petersburg, June 1996.

The paper covered work by it originator S. V. Avramenko{2} , titled "The Measuring of Conduction Current That is Stimulated by Polarization Current",  published in the 'Journal of Russian Physical Society, No# 2, 1991'.

At approximately the same time, (shortly thereafter) JLN Labs{3} ,posted experiments which followed more closely the Avramenko single line transmission work.

Some work was also done and available on a website by Stefan Hartmann{4}  ,although these pages appear to no longer be available.

Stiffler Scientific, Plasma Power
http://www.drstiffler.com/plasmapwr.asp

Test Equipment (used in this research)

Oscilloscopes

Tektronix 2445, Probes - 10:1, 10M/10.8pf P/N P6131
Fluke PM3082, Probes - 10:1, 10M/12pf P/N PM9010/091  1:1. 56pf P/N PM9001/001
Velleman HPS40 - 10:1/1:1 integral 10M

DVM

Extech 430
Extech MA200
Fluke 8022A
MasTech M-830B

LCR

Elenco 1810

Signal Generators

Wavetek 181
B&K 3017A

Laboratory & Environment

Our lab is located in a bioresearch facility build in the mid-nineties. The lab was not constructed with RF or sensitive electronics work in mind, it therefore has no RF shielding or integral grounding bus bars. The lab is located in close proximity to a 50kw AM transmitter operating on a frequency of 1520kHz. Additionally there are high RF levels from an FM radio station in range of 98mHz. To the best of our knowledge all internal noise generation equipment has been identified and accounted for in the electronics lab.

Normal 120V/240V service wiring within the lab has been identified as a ground loop generator and is accounted for in experiments in which such ground loops will have an effect.

{1}Alexander V. Frolov

Power for Nothing

Sources of Excess Energy

Power from Nothing

http://keelynet.com/energy/frolov2.htm

http://www.skybooksusa.com/time-travel/physics/enersour.htm

http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrg/frolov2.txt

{2} Avramenko's US and foreign Patents.

United States Patent Aug. 15, 2000 Avramenko et al.

also see from November 25, 1993

http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?CY=ch&LG=fr&DB=EPODOC&IDX=US6104107&DOC=dcb65d04ab6820d7924a01bf873fe6b65d

http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?CY=ch&LG=fr&DB=EPODOC&IDX=WO9323907&DOC=deb45b02a96923dc96560dcb934bf2c269

{3} Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump ( AFEP v1.0)

By Jean-Louis Naudin created on November 1st, 1999 - JLN Labs - Last update November 3rd, 1999

Single-Wire Energy Transmission test By Jean-Louis Naudin created on November 3rd,, 1999 - JLN Labs - Last update November 5th,

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep01.htm

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep01.htm
{4} Stefan Hartmann       http://www.overunity.com

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 15, 2007, 03:43:31 AM

There are people, such as Bruce Perrault claiming they were playing with something like that the other day and writing things like "His time in the spotlight will be short". Wow... That flavor of crazy only comes with one name.

I have no idea who this Bruce Perrault is but I am the one that made the statement about spotlights. This was not made to defame the man. I don't know him. The reason for it was because his website contents are in agreement with my thoughts and beliefs AND previous experimental results. Those thoughts and beliefs have certainly turned the lights off for me and done the same to many others.

As far as posting very little experimental detail - why should I bother repeating something I did 20+ years ago? If you don't believe something said then either ignore it or prove/disprove it to yourself.

the B and the P in BEP stands for something you wouldn't understand and most likley wouldn't believe. As in callsigns - BEP was a substation of a network. The B stood for Berlin............

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fleubis on October 15, 2007, 05:21:45 AM
I'm a bit confused about the use of Barium in  this device. Please  correct  me if  I'm wrong, but the only Barium I see in this device is in the ferrite tuning beads.  Right? The old radio antennas contain no Barium, or do they? Am now  trying to source that very thin multi-conductor wire used in the coils....not so  easy to find. Will  post a source when I find one.

Would like to remind everyone of Dr. Stiffler's clear disclaimer about his environment NOT being setup with proper shielding and grounding, and the presence of a nearby radio transmitter might easily explain everything.

James
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: redorman on October 15, 2007, 05:58:17 PM
The way I see it, the key to the powering of the bulb IS the signal generator.  The energy of several (or many, depending) low power pulses from the signal generator get stored and then released as one relatively large pulse to blink the LED or lamp.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 06:16:34 PM
I think people are confusing and assuming things that are not claimed by Dr. Stiffler. Part of the problem is, from the time we watch the video to the time we type, we modify what may be claimed.

Best to watch the video again and see what is claimed. Look at the scope shots and look at things like frequency and voltage and then replicate it and see how it works for you.

The part of this last video that confused me is that he did not use the 90 degree opposed secondary coil, instead used three coils on the ferrite.

Another thing that may be confusing is that he called the video CE4 (Cold electricity 4) but in a previous video he said that the key to creating cold electricity was the counter opposed coil on a barium ferrite core.

I am sure that with time and patience all these issues will be resolved. I am looking for a barium ferrite cores and the closest thing I can find is barium ferrite magnets.

Mostly what the video showed me is the use of the plug at the end of the circuit which he clearly cites to the inventor. It is all good.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 06:43:46 PM
Here is something else I found interesting relative to an experiment he (Stiffler) did on his web site regarding electrolysis using just the input from a single LED powered by a cold electric barium ferrite core setup.

It appears that barium resonates at almost exactly ten times the resonate frequency of hydrogen (H1)

Mr. Stiffler talked about not being interested in recreating the Meyer process and instead developed the CREC - Charge recycle circuit which does work as advertised. Then while doing that experiment where a tiny bit of light was cracking water, he asked the question (paraphrasing) "Is this related to the Meyer process"

I about jumped out of my chair when I noticed that the two elements had such a close match.

Source of information was Texas Nuclear Magnetic Resonance something or another - Sorry, I lost the URL.

Note: Resonance frequencies are quoted relative to a resonance
frequency of exactly 100 MHz for 1H.

Isotope: 1H

Spin:                         1/2
Natural abunance:             99.985%
Magnetogyric ratio (rad/T s): 26.7520 x 10^7
Relative receptivity:         1.00
Magnetic moment               4.83724
Resonance frequency           100,200 and 300 MHz

Isotope: 135Ba

Spin:                         3/2
Natural abunance:             6.59 %
Magnetogyric ratio (rad/T s): 2.671 x 10^7
Relative receptivity:         3.28 x 10^-4
Magnetic moment               1.080
Resonance frequency           9.984 MHz

This indicates, if I understand correctly, that barium resonates at 998.4 MHZ and hydrogen at 100MHZ
Almost a perfect harmonic.

I know this much for sure, Meyers "State Space Change" could have been referring to the state change of a field effect transistor and perhaps a barium vessel surrounding the anode may have something to do with that patent and I am damn sure going to be playing with it soon!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 07:17:42 PM
I'm a bit confused about the use of Barium in  this device. Please  correct  me if  I'm wrong, but the only Barium I see in this device is in the ferrite tuning beads.  Right? The old radio antennas contain no Barium, or do they? Am now  trying to source that very thin multi-conductor wire used in the coils....not so  easy to find. Will  post a source when I find one.

Would like to remind everyone of Dr. Stiffler's clear disclaimer about his environment NOT being setup with proper shielding and grounding, and the presence of a nearby radio transmitter might easily explain everything.

James

Thin multi-strand  wire is called litz wire and it can be found on the web.

Ferrite tuning beads? No those are ferrite beads for decoupling and are easy to find but they do not do tuning. If anything, they DE-tune.

The antenna core looks like the same cores used in earlier videos and he stated that they were barium cores from an AM radio probably produced in China. I remember the little AM raidios from 20-30 years ago did have a core like that in them.

Hope that helps
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spewing on October 15, 2007, 08:08:39 PM
where is the schematic? the working schematic? why has it not been posted, why do i go in circles looking for it??? why talk about the parts used and how it is possibly constructed? why not just post the schematic so we can test it????

what is the guy claiming? if it is overunity or power from electronic waves in the air, or a resonance inside a LC, whatever it maybe why has he not came into this overunity forum of the world and laid the schematic down like i did?

post after post and still talk, what are you all doing, trying to figure out how he has it working? i don't understand where this thread is going, someone please explain.

the peskwikia sites his videos on youtube direct you to goto, why is there no schematic there? it directs you here, and still no schematic, i no theres one a few pages back on this thread, the inductors are not listed in detail etc,,,, no point wasting time if you dont know how to assemble it.

can someone explain what is going on here???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 08:35:49 PM
@ Spewing

Why don't you start at the beginning of the thread and start reading. Than at about page two you will see the schematic. You might just run into some links to video and his web site along the way too.

To just jump to the end and demand everyone fill you in on what you are too lazy to read is insulting and makes you look like a child.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spewing on October 15, 2007, 08:41:21 PM
@ Spewing

Why don't you start at the beginning of the thread and start reading. Than at about page two you will see the schematic. You might just run into some links to video and his web site along the way too.

To just jump to the end and demand everyone fill you in on what you are too lazy to read is insulting and makes you look like a child.

Lazy??? i have read the threads, i have went to his website wich has no schematic, only stuff to by, and i have also watched his videos, i don't see anything other than "a video".

i also tried to registor over there at his site but for some reasone you cant, dont work.

i would have not posted, but i am agravated that i have watched the videos read the thread and whent to his site, still i have found nothing, where is the meet and potato's ????

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 08:50:40 PM
"Lazy??? i have read the threads, i have went to his website wich has no schematic, only stuff to by, and i have also watched his videos, i don't see anything other than "a video

i also tried to registor over there at his site but for some reasone you cant, dont work.

i would have not posted, but i am agravated that i have watched the videos read the thread and whent to his site, still i have found nothing, where is the meet and potato's ????

thats all i was asking... "

2. If you had watched the videos, you would have know what is claimed.
3. If you had gone to the web site, registered, waited to be approved and then logged in you would have know anything else that is known.

I used the term lazy to be kind. Don't make me get all medieval on you ass. :-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spewing on October 15, 2007, 08:57:08 PM
well, a few post up if you would have read, you would see that i did know there was a schematic on page 2, his website said it was not allowing anyone to registor, so i assume that is fixed now?

"Maybe the other HALF of the circuit is on his website", And yes i know what he is claiming, but cold energy and Overunity is 2 different things, i guess he is getting overunity with cold energy with a resonating frequency fast charging a capacitor. just wanted to confirm, no need to go hostile

Thank you...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on October 15, 2007, 09:28:41 PM
G'day all,

Periodic table, resonant frequencies:

http://www.eclipse.net/~numare/nsinmrpt.htm

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 09:47:02 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 12:04:53 AM
The schematic is here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg54343.html#msg54343

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 16, 2007, 01:27:08 AM
@ mramos

I assume by the note at the end you saw that relative to 1H part?

I don't know if this has anything to do with OU or Meyer or anything at all but I thought that is was interesting and perhaps someone can beat me to answering the question.

Is the water itself triggering the state change of a transistor?
I.e., was the movable probe in the Meyer notes a transistor on a stick with the gate exposed to the water?
Was the chamber itself surrounded by a barium ferrite core?

In the photos of the final Meyer water car, there is a large space between between the water cavity and the outside device. I have been puzzled by what occupied that space.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 02:01:37 AM
Dr. Stiffler updated his page again.

Here are the new parts:

B1,B2,B2 & B4 with C1 form a delay line.

Removal of C1 will stop circuit operation and extinguish the LED.
Replacing C1 with a wire will reduce the LED output to barely visible or extinguished.
Removal of B1,B2,B2 & B4 and C1 and replacing with a short wire will extinguish the LED.

Pay special attention to the supplied scope pictures of this circuit in operation and not that the Peak-to-Peak voltage present at the junction (+rail) of B2 and L2 is ~8 (Scope{4}) volts. This voltage should always be higher than the input when the circuit is properly tuned into operational mode.

Tuning for maximum power at the LED is subjective if you use human visual reference for the amount of LED light output. This can get you close, but is not the most accurate way to find the three peaks available. I use a Lutron light meter and a black isolation tube around the LED. The circuit can be tuned for maximum light output, although this can also be in error due to the way LED's react to excitation at different frequencies, yet this can be an acceptable preliminary observation.

The most accurate I have found so far is using a small form factor (small size and mass) DVM (accuracy not important) with leads as short as possible connected across a 10k ohm resistor, bridged with a 5uf capacitor at the output of the rectifiers. With this configuration one can tune input for maximum voltage indication. The down side to this method is that the added L and C of the meter and connections do indeed shift the optimal peaks.

During tuning using both of the methods indicated above, the peaks (excluding LED frequency response) fall with in ~+/- 200khz of each other.

The peak frequencies have been derived by scope and counter measurement, with the most accurate being the frequency counter. This circuit appears to 'Hunt' and therefore even the counter cannot be considered totally accurate, as the readings will vary over many kilohertz as the circuit 'Hunts' for stability.

The following chart shows the frequency versus relative power from a test run on Circuit (4), using the DVM method of measurement and reading the frequency with a counter with 0.001% accuracy.

The following table shows the measured frequency peaks and their first three harmonics.

Measured (MHz)        3.9866     10.4230        12.3340
X2                        7.9732      20.8460     24.6680
X3                        11.9598    31.2690    37.0020
X4                        15.9464    41.6920    49.3360

It is noted at this point that in the scope traces (for #4) included below show scope-measured frequencies of 6.99MHz, 7.14MHz and 10MHz. The trace was not expanded as it should have been to obtain a more accurate reading, yet there can be seen a correlation with the counter readings.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 02:11:02 AM
Dr. Stiffler just did send me a link,
where you can buy the ferrite core and the
coil around it on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150089628196

He further said:

"Be aware that not all coils are created equal. Out of 15 I have ten that
work? May be due to the material content."
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spewing on October 16, 2007, 02:42:08 AM
cool
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: minesapint on October 16, 2007, 05:20:24 PM
Sorry to burst the bubble....

This is not overunity.

What your are doing is using a tuned circuit to pick up RF from a strong local radio station.
Couple of years ago a HAM radio friend of mine set up a similar circuit and powered a LED, charge ni-cads etc...
Ok so he was probably caused a huge RF shadow across Reading (west of London) at the time!!!!

Put it in a faraday cage and see if it still works or find out what the tuned frequency is and see if theres a local station close to it.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 16, 2007, 05:36:07 PM
Maybe you ham xmitter idea is busted

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 16, 2007, 05:43:27 PM
@minesapint

I think you are off base, while this is possible, the fact that he is sending power through one wire screams longitudinal waves, but, I think that the pulses are not shapr enough to create the aplitude to see the wire cutting trick. Remember, the on and off as quick as possible equates to amplitude in longitudinal waves.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 07:36:39 PM
Maybe you ham xmitter idea is busted

Hi Ron,
very well done !
Now we can actually see the
power amplification and it is not
caused by the local radio station !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 16, 2007, 07:45:09 PM
I just get emal from Dr Stifler and I ask him where was transistor.

He tell me, no need transistor and only one wire each coil.

What this this is?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tinu on October 16, 2007, 07:59:59 PM
Maybe you ham xmitter idea is busted

Maybe yes, maybe no. Time will tell.
What I know is that I can measure about 2,7V and above on a properly tuned very small antenna and I?m not living next to a 50kW station.
I also know that any radio will work just fine as long as its antenna is not caged. In the above movie I see at least two wires that both may act as antennas. Why don?t they light the led by themselves? Because they are not tuned on the proper frequency.

Just some thoughts. Like I said, time will tell.

Tinu
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 16, 2007, 08:00:10 PM
This is becoming another one of these moving target projects.  While it is nice that the invention has been simplified now to an extreme degree (looks like three or four total parts now), it is a bit hard to follow.  We need a new schematic, it looks like...and some scope shots taken in real time while the LED is running, showing the generator output.

Could it be the copper traces in the plug-board are acting as quarter-wave lines and providing transformer action so the rf gen sees a low impedance and thus puts out more power?  Probably the frequency is too low for that...the quarter waves would be much longer...

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tinu on October 16, 2007, 08:03:53 PM
Maybe you ham xmitter idea is busted

Hi Ron,
very well done !
Now we can actually see the
power amplification and it is not
caused by the local radio station !

To quote a famous member here, these are things that make you go hummmmm?  ;D

Tinu
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 16, 2007, 08:13:19 PM
schematic:

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 16, 2007, 08:20:26 PM
Dear All,

Some weeks ago I had the pleasure to measure
the input transformer of a legendary 60ties tube preamplifer:
V76 from tab/telefunken.
This transformer is straight overunity - which
reflects in its price on the retail market.
Its so overunity that the original manufactorer refuses
to repair or rebuild the stuff. (somehow the special machinery
get lost)
By replacing the transformer of this circuit with
the v76 transformer - you get ultimate overunity.
believe me  ;-)
It should be even possible to blow the LED  and get some arc?s.
We can even remove one wire of the primary coil if we keep the
mu-metal shield grounded. (famous shielded 2 pin transformer)

Measuring the input resistance of such transformers
leaves high precision multimeters in an astonished mood
for up to 6hrs (if daylight).

believe me ;-)

(sorry, couldn?t resist being funny, btw: great transformer)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 16, 2007, 08:48:20 PM
According to their site:

http://www.tab-funkenwerk.com/id21.html

They have rebuilt at least one of them...
Do you have a reference for an accurate measurements showing overunity.

Otherwise, why should anyone believe someone whose  high precision multimeter languishes in an astonished mood for up to 6hrs (if daylight).?

BTW -- what does a Clarke-Hess power analyzer do in such a circumstance ?

Answer - grins and winks at the silliness of high precision multimeters  ; -)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 09:15:04 PM
schematic:

Hmm, are you sure this is the circuit ?
I see still a resistor connected to the black connector holder,
which comes from the signal generator...

we have to measure also the output current of the signal
generator and its voltage in both cases...

This circuit surely could also work as an impedance matcher
for the LED and as the LED has a different impedance
directly connected to the signal generator,
the impedances could be mismatched and the LED
will light weaker.

But when you apply this LC network with the ferrite core,
you could match the impedance better...
So there still needs to be done very exact measurements
of the output power of the signal generator in both shown cases
until one could tell a final conclusion.

Not too easy to do these measurements at these low
power levels and at this RF frequency of around 10Mhz !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 16, 2007, 09:27:10 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 09:40:21 PM
schematic:

Hmm, are you sure this is the circuit ?
I see still a resistor connected to the black connector holder,
which comes from the signal generator...

I just got a message from Dr.Stiffler stating it is just a 50 ohm
load resistor for the signal generator to match the impedance.

Well in this case it seems more likely,
that we really see here more energy out than in.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 12:22:39 AM
I was just reading over this thread to see if I missed something and I hope Dr. Stiffler reads this post.

I have successfully recreated one wire transmision, and the circuit will never display RE cold effects with an AC signal that floats over and under 0 volts. If yo have a normal AC signal, you will be both sucking and emiting energy from the enviroment. What you need is positive pulses only, I would do this with a single rectifier diode or with the generator set to "pulse" mode.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 12:25:12 AM
read this, the writings of Frolov led me to my one wire transmision circuit, and he explains the perameters needed very clearly. this was an invlauble document.

http://keelynet.com/energy/frolov1.htm
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 17, 2007, 12:31:26 AM
schematic:

Hmm, are you sure this is the circuit ?
I see still a resistor connected to the black connector holder,
which comes from the signal generator...

I just got a message from Dr.Stiffler stating it is just a 50 ohm
load resistor for the signal generator to match the impedance.

Well in this case it seems more likely,
that we really see here more energy out than in.

I don't see how identifying a fifty ohm terminating resistor disproves any theory that the sig gen is supplying the power to light the LED.  We still need to see a direct scope shot or other accurate power or current measurement on the signal being supplied by the generator.

Just because there is a fifty ohm resistor stuck on the signal doesn't mean it (the input signal) might not be "seeing" five or ten ohms total including whatever loading impedance the coil(s) and LED circuit impose in parallel.  Many if not all quality sig gens can pump big current into high VSWR loads well below 50 ohms!  Many are guaranteed to run into 20 or 30:1 VSWRs at any phase angle.  That could be a total complex load as low as two ohms or less.

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 17, 2007, 12:40:43 AM
Linda sez:  "Just because there is a fifty ohm resistor stuck on the signal doesn't mean it (the input signal) might not be "seeing" five or ten ohms total including whatever loading impedance the coil(s) and LED circuit impose in parallel.  Many if not all quality sig gens can pump big current into high VSWR loads well below 50 ohms!"

So what you are saying, in effect, is that Dr. Stiffler cannot measure and match impedance - and consequently he is expending all of this effort - and sacrificing 40 years of experience in RF engineering in order to trick some unsuspecting circuit builders?

Most of the commentators here (if they are not waiting for parts) have wasted more time in belittling this effort than they would have expended to replicate it and show their own results.

Including me  ;-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 17, 2007, 12:54:44 AM
There is no belittling going on at least in my mind.  What is happening is a normal, standard, scientific effort to try to explain what appears to be happening using only purely conventional known phenomena.  Why is this considered to be taboo and odd and mean, somehow?  99.9999999% of all purported and reported OU and "free energy" has turned out to be measurement error so far.

That's what we do as researchers if we are scientific about it.  We seek to find an explanation that fits the facts!  Before concluding that excess energy or free energy is being observed, doesn't it make common sense to measure the input and output energy accurately?  At least?

Let's keep our feet on the ground here, people!  Leaping to glorious "mysterious energy" conclusions without first making any accurate measurements whatsoever seems to be in very much vogue here!  I'm not suggesting anyone is trying to fool anyone...it just seems like the avoidance of accurate measurement is rampant and a "cornerstone" in so many of these projects!  What's up with that attitude?

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 17, 2007, 01:42:45 AM
We would need 4 scopeshots to determine
the power out / power in relationship:

1. Voltage at the 50 Ohm resistor
2. voltage at a 1 Ohm shunt going to the 50 Ohm resistor

3. Voltage at the LED
4. current through the LED via a 1 Ohm shunt

Then we can definately say, what is going on.

of course all sweep times usec/div
and amplifier settings must be provided : Volts/div.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 17, 2007, 02:03:00 AM
linda933: "Leaping to glorious "mysterious energy" conclusions without first making any accurate measurements whatsoever seems to be in very much vogue here!  I'm not suggesting anyone is trying to fool anyone...it just seems like the avoidance of accurate measurement is rampant and a "cornerstone" in so many of these projects!  What's up with that attitude?"

Indeed. There are many "attitudes" being displayed here, and without making value judgments, it would seem that yours is based in Academia or from a Corporate-Culture where cost and equipment is no object. Lovely - but that is not the case here, where expediency and practicality often dictate that more can be accomplished with a handful of replication attempts costing a few hundred \$ each- than with the extraordinary expense of  whizz-bang 1000X probes to see what's going on without scaring away the genie doing the work (as a colleague has opined) -- maybe a P6015a, 100M impedence, 3 pF capacitance, 75 MHz bandwidth (shabby bandwidth but enough for this application). Darn things are kind of expensive, unfortunately: http://www.valuetronics.com/vt/assets/pdfs/TEK_P6015A,P5100,P5102,P5120.pdf

Wish Ron and the rest of us had the luxury of that step first - but in point of fact a totally self-powering device is even more impressive than meter readings that someone will always quibble over anyway - even if requires more hands-on work and repetitive disappointment than what "should be" the case in a perfect world of adequate funding... and even if this one, like most of the rest - does not pan out. About the only hope for a major contribution from those of us without Corportate, National Lab or Acedemic sponsorship is to ferret out that one-in-a-million anomaly which they stumble on - hopefully a crack in the LoT - and pursue that with a vengeance- and with the help of other hands-on types who are similarly inspired.

Given the urgency of the energy crisis, I see no other hope but to pursue every "decent" lead and every reported anomaly- even if 999,9999 out of a million do not pan out. This one appears to be on the upper-end of that 'decency' range, as of now - your (imaginary?)  high-current SigGens notwithstanding...

Jones

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 17, 2007, 02:22:17 AM
linda933: "Leaping to glorious "mysterious energy" conclusions without first making any accurate measurements whatsoever seems to be in very much vogue here!  I'm not suggesting anyone is trying to fool anyone...it just seems like the avoidance of accurate measurement is rampant and a "cornerstone" in so many of these projects!  What's up with that attitude?"

Indeed. There are many "attitudes" being displayed here, and without making value judgments, it would seem that yours is based in Academia or from a Corporate-Culture where cost and equipment is no object. Lovely - but that is not the case here, where expediency and practicality often dictate that more can be accomplished with a handful of replication attempts costing a few hundred \$ each- than with the extraordinary expense of  whizz-bang 1000X probes to see what's going on without scaring away the genie doing the work (as a colleague has opined) -- maybe a P6015a, 100M impedence, 3 pF capacitance, 75 MHz bandwidth (shabby bandwidth but enough for this application). Darn things are kind of expensive, unfortunately: http://www.valuetronics.com/vt/assets/pdfs/TEK_P6015A,P5100,P5102,P5120.pdf

Wish Ron and the rest of us had the luxury of that step first - but in point of fact a totally self-powering device is even more impressive than meter readings that someone will always quibble over anyway - even if requires more hands-on work and repetitive disappointment than what "should be" the case in a perfect world of adequate funding... and even if this one, like most of the rest - does not pan out. About the only hope for a major contribution from those of us without Corportate, National Lab or Acedemic sponsorship is to ferret out that one-in-a-million anomaly which they stumble on - hopefully a crack in the LoT - and pursue that with a vengeance- and with the help of other hands-on types who are similarly inspired.

Given the urgency of the energy crisis, I see no other hope but to pursue every "decent" lead and every reported anomaly- even if 999,9999 out of a million do not pan out. This one appears to be on the upper-end of that 'decency' range, as of now - your (imaginary?)  high-current SigGens notwithstanding...

Jones

I'm not trying to discourage replications; far from it.  Why are you using really bad arguments and excuses to try to discourage making measurements?  Whatever gave you the idea a special 1000X high voltage probe would be needed?  We are talking a measly 10MHz and a couple of Volts here!  All I'm suggesting is to stick a couple of one ohm resistors (take ten ten ohm 1% surface mount types in parallel for high accuracy and super-low inductance) in the circuit and take a peek at how much current is flowing in the input and the output.  Total cost maybe \$3.00...use standard run-of-the-mill 10X probes and any low-cost low-bandwidth 'scope.

In order to be of any use in solving real energy needs, I'm afraid any workable approach will have to stand up to actual measurements unless it can be freed from needing any external input at all!  Just a fact of life, not really anything to get upset about.  Don't you think so, really?

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 03:21:11 AM
What happens ?

Imagine that the beads have a low resistance for
the 10MHz switching frequency and high resistance
for the L1,L2,..LED discharging frequency (lets say 50- 100MHz).
On switching off the DC(<=10MHz) part of the L1,L2 reverse voltage charges C1,
the AC part(>=10MHz) is consumed via L2,LED.
This means the pulse generator operates against the negative
voltage of C1 which might be up to 100 Volts.
The pulse generator works with 10kOhm against this
voltage, resulting in a current of 10mA peak - which is the
approx. energy needed to operate the LED.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 17, 2007, 03:35:46 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 11:27:59 AM
If we stop looking at the trees and look at the forest for a moment, there is not enough current to saturate that huge chunk of core mass in the slightest. Ron states it won't work without the core and there is only one wire off the secondary to boot. Where is the 25ma of induction?

As I pointed out in my mail above - the 25mA are from the generator.
"Normally" this energy cannot be consumed with 10k input resistance
and 2Vpp. The circuit generates an "inner" negative resonance voltage
which makes the signal generator work against these voltage.
The inner voltage maybe somewhere at 50 V (peak).
This means that the power sucked from the generator is
(50+2)^2 / 10kOhm - which is in the some hundred milliwatt range.
This (getting more power from the generator) is achieved by using C1.
L2,L3 transforms the high voltage/low current/100MHz(fundamental) peak pulse into
a low voltage/ high current pulse.
Because of the high frequency/lots of harmonics (probably up to some 100MHz),
its no problem to couple the power using some parasitic capacitor of the breadboard.

The level and art of tricking around with rf circuits is of a high degree.
Discussing the most funny 2048 best rf tricks will keep us busy for years ...
(this was a warning)

Measuring the heat emitted by the 50 Ohm output resistor of the generator
would be the immediate proof (whats going on here)

rgds,

wolfgang
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 17, 2007, 01:23:33 PM
fritz, Hi
How you tell what go into circuit by measure heat on resistor across that is across source and not inline?

I can not do, how?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 03:43:54 PM
OK,

2Vpp square equals 1Vp equals 1Vrms is the generator
The generator source resistance is 50 Ohms.
The maximum power you can get out is if terminated with
another 50 Ohms.
Means we have a generator with 1Vrms on 100 Ohms gives
10mA output current if terminated)
20mA output current if shorted

You see - even a shorted generator provides less current
as needed for a bright led.

The output resistor of the generator dissipates 20mA^2 * 50 Ohms
= 20mW. (if shorted)

The LED needs with 25mA@2.73V 68.2kelvin 5mW
Means we would need 68.25mA current from a 1Volt
supply to have equal power.
This 68.25mA would induce a power dissipation of 68mA^2 *50 Ohms
= 232mW on the output resistor.
To have 68.25mA@50 Ohms, you need 3.4125 V on this resistor -
means that the circuit must generate a voltage of -2.41V to
achieve this.

A 1/2 watts resistor can have up to 50 kelvin temperature rise

This means - if happens what I suppose - the generator output resistor
gets measurable hot. - hotter than if generator is shorted.

The 10kOhm resistor should definitly get hot, too.

rgds,

Wolfgang

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 17, 2007, 03:57:25 PM
fritx, Hi again.

What circuit you look at? 10K in parallel with input cap?

He show 1ohm in series with input and only 0,0004 mv acreoss it?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 05:05:47 PM
Nice post, one has to respect a post backed up by numbers.
I did all the math and you are definitely correct in your assessment,
Of the circuit, but I think that something has been missed. I could definitely be wrong on this one, and im sure ill be corrected. But, you cannot just simply stick a 50 ohm resistor across the inputs of the circuit and expect that to solve your impedance matching issues. According to the equations for adding resistances in parallel (counting one resistance as the 50 ohm resistor, and the other as the whole circuit behind it by Theviens Theorem) if you have one low resistance and one extremely high resistance the total resistance will be close to the low resistance, which should be intuitively correct. But I doubt that the resistance of the circuit is very high even with that 10k ohm resistor in place. The resistor is in parallel with the capacitor, and we all know that capacitive reactance is inversely proportional to frequency, and we are driving this set up at high frequency so the electric signal would bypass the 10k resistor. Now there are a lot of inductive elements in the circuit for which the opposite is true, but we would need to know their inductive values to know how many ohms of reactance they have at each frequency.

Basically, what im saying is that the resistive nature of the circuit at each frequency changes, and im not totally convinced that throwing a 50ohm resistor across the inputs will give you accurate enough results to base all of your math on, which by the way was correct, and I wish more people would take the time to work out the numbers! GOOD POST!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 05:27:54 PM
Also this brings up something interesting that I have not thought of before. Many cores have a resonant frequency based off of their physical dimensions, I never really thought about looking for resonant points related to the molecular makeup of the core. What is the resonant frequency of the iron in the core? What if one were to have high power frequencies driven over the same core one at irons frequency and one at bariums frequency, would we see a disassociation of the material much like what Hutchison saw? I have no idea, Im definitely going to have to do some research on this one.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 05:43:17 PM
Well, the video was pretty cool, but now that we have the schematic and parts list, it's easy to see that the circuit is powered by the signal generator.  It's capacitively coupled through C2, bypassing the 10K resistor, and then through the input capacitance of the 2N7000 MOSFET, which is quite high.

R2 keeps the gate-to-source voltage around zero, and the data sheet for that MOSFET (http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/vishay/70226.pdf, for example) shows that the added 1V p-p signal from the signal generator is not enough to make it conduct at all, so capacitive coupling to B4 and L1 is its only function.

The inductances, C1, and other capacitances form a resonant circuit through which the signal generator drives the step-up transformer formed by L2 and L3.

L3 transmits the power to the LED at high voltage through one wire, which is pretty cool, and the D1+D2+D3 circuit picks it up.  I'm not able to analyze this part very well, but I'd guess that it uses the stray capacitiances beween the parts of the breadboard that Dr. Stiffler has already mentioned.

All in all, this circuit is pretty wierd.  I wonder why anyone would build such a thing?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

I guess alot of what I said was already said.
If this is negative energy, entropy, then we should be able to remove the ?Plug? part of the circuit from the bard, and it will still light the LED distance not really being an issue.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 05:51:31 PM
mmmH,

Lots of things to bring together....
The impedance of the 10pf cap is 318Ohms at 50Meg
and 160Ohms ato 100Meg (thought it would be higher).
So this means a 5mW load which reduces the amount
of resonance voltage needed to suck even more power.

Another thing came to my mind:
The blue LED is operated pulsed with a frequency of
10MHz and a very short pulse duration.
Could be that the visual effect of such operation is
higher than the equivalent rms value DC operation
would be. Even the video camera can make the LED
shine brighter (on the recording).
My instinctive voice tells me that the losses increase
dramatically in this 1N4148/914/LED if operated in the
100 MHz range - a normal 4148 is slow as hell and stores
more charge than it switches (;-)))).
Maybe the state of the art blue LEDs have different behaviour.
So my contribution to that will be that I make an investigation:
Blue LED pulsed vs. DC, measuring the light intensity and
envelope with my highspeed photodiode.
Could be that the secondary voltage is rectified in the diode
itself, the transformed charge stored in the diode, 4148
works just as protection "resistor" hihi, hoho, hihi

rgds,

Wolfgang
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 17, 2007, 05:58:03 PM
armagdn03 HI!

I had it all wrong, I do 50ohms transmitter with 50 ohm line and put 50 ohm load on it. Now I see, it is really 25 ohm, no wonder standing wave there.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 06:03:38 PM
Just to clarify:

Measuring the voltage on the output resistor (inside the
pulse generator) with a scope (using  2 channels vs. gnd)
- or simply measure its temperature - is what I ment.
Output power can be calculated graphically - wouldn?t
trust ANY rms meter in this setup.
Or measure the power consumption of the pulse generator
output stage (DC) with open, shorted, or cirucuit attached... -
and than estimate....

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 17, 2007, 06:45:18 PM
If this type of circuit really does involve so-called "cold electricity" then why would you Fritz (Wolfgang), or anyone else expect a "conventional" meter or scope to give an accurate representation of what is happening?

Let me say up front that I do not know what cold-electricity is, nor do I know if it is a total fiction or not, nor do I know how to measure it otherwise. Until a few days ago, I would probably have chimed-in with the rest of you with a resounding "balderdash- no such thing as cold electricity" refrain.

That is precisely why this circuit begs to be replicated by those coming from differing backgrounds and perspectives. If others see the same thing, then perhaps it will allow a bit more credence, or confidence - to the entire concept of "cold electricity".

Otherwise Wolf and Linda, who are generally correct wrt conventional EE- are spinning their collective wheels in the mud of mainstream-limited-horizons.

Of course, even if cold electricity does not exist, the idea of a SigGen heating a resistor to such a degree is laughable.

Jones
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 17, 2007, 07:24:08 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 17, 2007, 07:45:38 PM
My definition of cold electricity:

It is when your 10 Watt 1 ohm resistor, wired in series to the test circuit gets noticeably cooler than it should be. You freak out and check it with your IR thermometer and it shows much cooler than the bench area - even though it has been setting there all day and it is carrying current. Then you give up and have a cool one to clean the wild thoughts from your head. (Notice I didn't say 'another cool one'.)

After clarity arrives you decide to keep it to yourself because you are still bruised from the last time you made something like that public for replication.

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 17, 2007, 07:46:10 PM
Let me add one further thing into the mix - i.e. there is a distinct possibility of driving an LED to full brightness with a circuit which indicates absolutely *zero power* (measured with a conventional dedicated power analyzer) yet this circuit need not violate the sacrosanct Laws of Thermodynamics.

Just  today this story appeared in the science press
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/533411/?sc=dwhp

... where an RF circuit is used "cool" a tiny silicon cantilever?  similar to the tuning forks used in 'quartz' watches but smaller ? and vibrating at 7 kHz its natural ?resonant? frequency and not far off from the loopstick. Well, this is a conversion, or transfer of one form of energy to another, and it is conservative - but it can offer some insight on how other resonant circuits might operate to "bootstrap" thermal or natural magnetic vibration into a separate electrical circuit - and give the appearance of overunity, when in fact the circuit is merely taping into a bit of ambient energy, not necessarily thermal.

In this case above the experimenters cooled the miniature lever from room temperature down to -228 C - quite impressive. I mention this experiment in the context of a ferrite core, where an (unnoticed) one degree or less, delta T change in entropy could perhaps- be converted into milliwatts of another form of energy ? We simply do not know what is going on.

Even if this explanation is way-off (it probably is since it is not well-thought out yet) the important point is that there are many hidden sources of ambient energy, there is a massive flux of solar neutrinos, Dirac energy and so on--  and a circuit which "appears" to extract 50 milliwatts from "nowhere" may be limited to whatever can be cohered from the hidden source.

IOW this circuit in question need not violate sacrosanct Laws of Thermodynamics, but it may 'violate' that EE degree, if it is frozen-in-time, and cannot be defrosted (even with RF irradiation ;-)

Jones

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 17, 2007, 07:55:42 PM
Hi All

Hey Stifler not take site down they remove you log in - now very simple yes?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Perraultium on October 17, 2007, 08:11:08 PM
My definition of cold electricity:

It is when your 10 Watt 1 ohm resistor, wired in series to the test circuit gets noticeably cooler than it should be. You freak out and check it with your IR thermometer and it shows much cooler than the bench area - even though it has been setting there all day and it is carrying current. Then you give up and have a cool one to clean the wild thoughts from your head. (Notice I didn't say 'another cool one'.)

After clarity arrives you decide to keep it to yourself because you are still bruised from the last time you made something like that public for replication.

Just my opinion.

Why do you make these posts? You don't answer the question what OU device you have created? You make claims of being experienced but never back them up. Post your cold electricity circuit and I will validate whether it works or not.

Your egocentric need for attention does not serve a useful purpose here. You claim to be from Berlin but seem to use American slang and write like an American.

Now either put up, or shut up mister been there done that.

When life hands you lemons, make Perraultium - The high energy element made from a lemon with two probes shoved into it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 17, 2007, 08:20:53 PM
@Perraultium

'from Berlin'? I don't recall typing that.

Hmmm.... it seems only certain folks are allowed opinion here. Very well. I think I'll create an alias for myself and argue with myself for a while. That should be more productive than picking someones work apart without building it first.

It is obvious you want action. That type of action is best not posted here. Neither is a continuation of this conversation.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 17, 2007, 08:21:04 PM
@ EDORK

Hi - Maybe one more post - He did take down some parts of the site. There was a part about an experiment where he was using his transformer to do electrolysis that was interesting.

He was hanging it out there as people tend to be critical of him and he had nothing to gain. I don't blame him for not wanting to hear from people. He sure does seem like an intelligent and nice person that I could learn a lot from.

What? No comment on the fundamental difference between the Meyer and Stiffler circuit? Compression vs decompression?

Cap, inductor, inductor verses inductor, inductor, cap? I really think the compression aspect of the circuit is something that is overlooked. But then I don't know jack about RF.

BIG OLD EDIT HERE

Hey - his BeFe core electrolyzer circuit is still there. I was wrong. He take down his papers for sale which is a bummer cause I wanted to but them and he did take down the ability to send hi a message.

Which I suppose is a message.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 08:46:00 PM
If this type of circuit really does involve so-called "cold electricity" then why would you Fritz (Wolfgang), or anyone else expect a "conventional" meter or scope to give an accurate representation of what is happening?

Of course, even if cold electricity does not exist, the idea of a SigGen heating a resistor to such a degree is laughable.

Jones

Well - what goes in must come out and vice versa -
if everything is shielded and nothing degrades during
operation ..... if not - we have a strange effect - if there
is more useable output than input we have overunity.

Using the temperature (generated heat) at termination
resistors is a typical method of measuring rf rms power.
Especially if the frequencies are very high.
The thermal output gives an exact measure for the rms
power involved. I think the equipement used for that is
called calorimeter (!?) not sure.

If a resistor gets hotter than calculated for the maximum
passive load - the unexpected heating gives the evidence
that the generator operates agains an active circuit or against
a back voltage - could be AC or DC.

This gives you a quite short and easy proof - without changing
the original wiring - because everything you connect might operate
as antenna and may emit em radiation.

So measuring the temperature of a resistor is a quite clever rf
measuring technique.

regards,
Fritz (thank you for pointing out that I  had some nick
inconsistence)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Perraultium on October 17, 2007, 09:06:50 PM
@ BEP

Not looking to start a flame war here but maybe this will refresh your confused memory:

As far as posting very little experimental detail - why should I bother repeating something I did 20+ years ago? If you don't believe something said then either ignore it or prove/disprove it to yourself.

the B and the P in BEP stands for something you wouldn't understand and most likley wouldn't believe. As in callsigns - BEP was a substation of a network. The B stood for Berlin............

And in both instances you suggest that I replicate the OU circuit you won't post. Kind of a catch 22 don't you think?

Oh, and you do go my multiple identities to congratulate and promote yourself and we have watched you do that for years

My comment stands and you stand corrected.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 17, 2007, 10:30:08 PM
This really becoming a bore.

I still don't see the word 'from' in front of the word 'Berlin'.

You are insulting someone I don't know thinking he is me.

You say I've suggested you replicate something when I all I've done is try to provide advice (granted I was too loud and free with theories and past experiences in the beginning).

What OU circuit, that I won't post, are you talking about? I've said many times I haven't succeeded in creating OU. Since I allowed my thoughts about this stuff to go public, JUNE THIS YEAR, I haven't succeeded in anything that hasn't already been posted by folks here.

The recent one that I related to this failed after 4 days when I closed the loop (WITH 2 AAA BATTERIES). That is just about as long as the batteries should last. Why should I post scope shots on that?

This is only the second username I have used. The only way that can be confirmed is for Stefan to starting looking at server logs. I'm not going to bother the man about that.

Enough. I have better things to do. What's up? You didn't like my opinion of what a magnetic field was?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 11:13:17 PM
I think we can all agree this is neither the place nor the time. Respectfully stop please. No hard feelings either way towards anybody.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on October 18, 2007, 05:15:21 AM
All of these circuits have several themes in common. Incidentally i highly suspect that ANY ferrite or even a coil wound around a paper tube will work given enough turns its just a simple transformer and there is no need to go looking for special cores.

For example the bedini circuits use coils and blocking diodes to minimize current drain on the primary but rely on the wheel rotation to produce the coil spikes. Well instead of that this circuit runs the output coil into RF resonance and works very similar to how i suspect the tpu works. Certainly the frequencies used in the couple of megs range are precisely where i would expect these effects to happen given the size of the coils and caps used which is why i suggested several times those banging with audio range pulses may not get anywhere when stable RF is required in the low megs range. In addition the use of open ended coils has been demonstrated many many times and patent in some cases Tesla of course and other like the Russian single wire longitudinal transmission system which has an open collector coil and the German scalar wave demo which also a simple PCB 200:1 transformer running to open collector Xmas tree ball antenna :)
The latter for those that seen that video use 4.2 meg RF carrier and i think 7 megs to produce the scalar and the received energy has been calculated and replicated to be a least 180% and in some cases reportedly 1000%. Now in each case the skeptics argue that the input power is not measured properly to cover the suggested output power and John Bedini followers know this problem all too well despite the fact it been shown several times that an RF generator fed into a wave guide of at least 3 nodes will produce longitudinal scalar waves and the output voltage AND current is higher at the output even when fed into a carbon resistor and temp calculated.  Now the problem with all these circuits is there is no feedback and the excess power tends to be very low.  There will always be loses but non of the useful gain is fed back to the input. There is no such thing as a lossless circuit his control circuit and coils may need 50 or 100 Milli amp to run all the time. Only the tpu can be seen to have true feedback because once you work out how to do this the device is then free running and the arguments then change from "he is not measuring the input correctly" to "must have a dozen pp3 batteries inside".

Likewise its no accident that Meyers water split almost certainly used a Bedini open collector type circuit floating output coil connected to resonant tubes through wave guide longitudinal chokes setup as nodes. When you do this and everything rings just right the power on the tubes will appear MUCH more then an equivalent DC circuit. Its unlikely he ever made a self powered tpu but very likely he achieved gains of over 500% compared to DC.

So these circuits are real they do exist but for most of the they don't concern anyone too much as they have little real practical use other then lab tests and if they threaten to leave the lab then MIB pop round.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 18, 2007, 04:32:46 PM
Now he be funny guy!

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 18, 2007, 05:00:45 PM
Very good post, everything you mentioned does have all of that in common. But lets not say they have no practical use??..I think that maybe sending energy to any distant point down one wire without losses is a pretty good practical use.  And if you are correct, then the feedback could be built into the system, and suddenly you have something similar to a TPU just disguised as something else.

Also, Faster frequencies are only one way to go about this. The goal is to compress and decompress the electron gas inside the conductor before it moves, we don?t have to go faster and faster though, we can also restrict the movement of the electrons, and use dielectrics instead of conductors. Ones with a high enough K values will have nice springy electron gas clouds that are very responsive, and will work even at lower frequencies. Also, we cannot be using sine wave frequencies! This is known, they are too soft and far from abrupt. Look at everybody who has successfully done one wire transmission, where they using sine waves? Or were they using a spark gap or pulse generator? Stiffler is an exception, but he is in the MHz range, Frolov has accomplished the same but at a 10Khz range, using pulses. These pulses are strong enough to rip electrons from neutral metal object.

Plus you will never see the electron sucking effect if you are using waves that oscillate between negative and positive, then you set up a situation where your one wire is sucking electrons from neutral metal, and giving them back in the same spark. We only want to collect them, one direction. This means using dc pulsed power.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 18, 2007, 05:23:50 PM
The cat is scratching to get out of Schr?dinger's bag...

EXCELLENT new vid with some cynical humor from Ron Stiffler (in response to negative quips by some naysayers) will be up on YouTube very soon.

Dr.S keeps chopping off the skeptic's legs from under them, and they are now grasping at straws.

What will be their next objection to the looming possibility that there is new player in the field of EE: "cold electricity" ...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 18, 2007, 06:44:15 PM
Wow,
now it is clear that really the ferrite cores do the power
amplification.
Just using one wire would not be possible to do this otherwise !

The on/off  of the LEDs ir probably done by tuning the frequency
a bit up and down and each core has a slightly different resonance frequency
and Q factor, so be detuning too far away one LED is already going out.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 18, 2007, 07:24:09 PM
DARN! i wish I could see the video, im at work though and my world is filtered.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tao on October 18, 2007, 07:48:55 PM
Thats better, BUT, it's time he did some real LOOPING or small battery testing.

Avramenko himself could send 1 KW down a single wire easily, even through non conductors, but that is TRANSPORT.

I reference Avramenko, because Stiffler is showing only the single wire connecting to his circuit and almost implying that because of this 1 wire, OU is evident. I am only saying, sure, there might very well be OU, and even OU in Avramenko's setups (WHEN CONFIGURED RIGHT), but until we get something more concrete like powering his circuit off a very small battery for a long time, or looping, then his LED lighting effect might be nothing other than simple Avramenko 1 wire energy transmission.

2 cents for now...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 18, 2007, 08:12:48 PM
Well, I forgot to see,
that he did not show the amplitude driving this time
the circuit, so I assumed, he still used only 1 or 2 Volts...
but we don?t know this now...so TAO is right,
it depends on the amplitude on the one wire, if we see
something special here or, if it is just a one wire power
transmission ala Avramenko.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 18, 2007, 10:52:30 PM
.....
Even the "shield" used is only a poor "electric" shield.
The ferrite coil is a "magnetic" antenna.
Even the "input" wire might catch enough em -....

What I want to see:

This circuit, soldered together in a "compressed" way,
hanging from the ceiling of an absorber hall with a nylon wire
(1m), input supplied via a single(not shielded wire) - 3m long,
connected to a pulse generate with a symmetric output
(or a balun) attached right at the generator; no other equipement
in the room.
...
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 18, 2007, 11:10:22 PM
...
Even a not properly grounded pulse generator
could induce the needed energy.
-> generator ground + signal "riding" - means
coupled by parasitic capacity to line voltage.

The "single" wire led (grounded by the fingers
of the experimenter) - would act like a
screwdriver with discharge lamp as used by
electricians ...

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on October 19, 2007, 06:46:39 AM
I think its pretty neat lets face it he has demonstrated more then anyone else in this forum especially against those running power supplies of 12 volts and 6 amps lighting bulbs and claiming they are getting extracted power LOL.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 19, 2007, 04:38:50 PM
Self-power or earth power?

...or Dr. Stiffler's magnetic personality?

Hey folks - he is being a little cute here, but if it
has not dawned on you yet- this is the most important
video on free energy that any "earthling" has ever witnessed!

Someone better call an ambulance for Fritz - he looks quite ill and
possibly has choked on something ;-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Hoppy on October 19, 2007, 05:27:22 PM
There appears to be a 'wire' of some nature dangling down under the table at the back. Look under the tray, and it is clearly seen to move about and could be connected to his body! Is this the pink bunnies tail I wonder??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 19, 2007, 05:43:27 PM
I understand skepticism, but lets not turn away a legitamate find here. I think its time to stop asking Dr. Stiffler to change his setup around so that we are satisfied! He has given us his info and been very kind in
Letting us see the results, He has jumped through hoops for us. Every time we have something that cannot be immediately disproved, its like people make it their mission to scare the inventor away with accusations! We can ask for accuracy sure, but don?t assume deceit!

Personally, Thank you Dr. Stiffler for your results. I have been working on Single wire transmission for a bit, but never really thought of the resonant frequency of the core (molecularly speaking)  to have a large part in the process. I always just strived for minimal induction losses with laminated steel cores, Bravo on finding the barium idea! If only my sig gen didn?t cap out at 5MHz! Grrrrrrr. Looks like another expenditure to put on the books!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 19, 2007, 07:03:34 PM
Just a thought, I donno if anybody reads my "tangential" posts anyways but...

What would makes barium ferrite act in this particular manor??? Good thing you asked, ill give you my interpretation of it, which is actually long and drawn out, but I will make it short and sweet.

We have to compounds, barium, and iron chemically bonded. There are magnetic domains, associated with the barium molecules. These domains don't become magnetic until they are given a reason to be.

If we were to wind a coil around this material, the current induced through the wire will create a magnetic field which will orient the magnetic domains in some arbitrary direction. Now if the induced current is oscillated at a frequency near the ressonant frequency of barium, perhaps this creates additional movement within the magnetic domains, causing more delta flux over delta time resulting in increased output. If this is the case I don't think that the core really could distinguish between primary and secondaries wound on it and I would speculate that this thing might actually be trying to feed some energy back into the signal generator as well! It would be interesting to use a rectified signal to feed the barium farrite transformer get it to resonance, and then stick some measuring equipment in between the generator and the core, and find if there are any additional fluctuations heading the "wrong way".

Barium works particularly well for this because it is known to have a frailly high Q when in resonance,

What would happen if we were to run this at 3.231MHz?....the resonant frequency of iron. Or what would happen if we were to feed with a combination of the two frequencies?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 19, 2007, 07:49:34 PM
Self-power or earth power?

...or Dr. Stiffler's magnetic personality?

Hey folks - he is being a little cute here, but if it
has not dawned on you yet- this is the most important
video on free energy that any "earthling" has ever witnessed!

Hmm,
no more signal generator anymore ?

Is there still the radio transmitter nearby
and you draw power from this, or do the
60 Hz induction via the ground wire maybe
excite your ferrite cores at the Mhz resonance ?
Hmm, pretty strange, if it is not just your local radio station via resonance...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 19, 2007, 07:50:31 PM
Well, we really need to see scope shots,
otherwise really nothing can be said..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on October 19, 2007, 10:15:53 PM
Hi All,
This experiment is interesting in that it brings up the subject of cold electricity.
So in "cold electricity part 7" he is able to power 8 LEDs from touch alone.
I wonder if he has his other hand on the function generator output and he is standing on something insulated?
I can see some connections between this device and the TPU.
Also its possible that there has been no success on the TPU front because of the missing final conversion process.
I think I have all the parts to make this including the big Proto board, just missing the parasitic beads, I knew that LW/MW coil would come in handy one day - time to dust it off I think.
I would be good to see this on a PCB, see him walk outside into the garden say, then touch it and show the LEDs being lit.
The next question is, can this be scaled up?
Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 19, 2007, 11:41:01 PM
@Dr Stiffler

Thank you for sharing your experiments with us. I am awaiting the arrival of my coil/cores and hope to soon replicate your work. I am sure there are others who would love to join in constructively.

I really think that people who are just heckling should start their own thread where they can be smart all day.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 20, 2007, 12:27:29 AM
Self-power or earth power?

Someone better call an ambulance for Fritz - he looks quite ill and
possibly has choked on something ;-)

hmmm spent my day in an ambulance car.,..
what next?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 20, 2007, 07:33:20 PM
In the second schematic that was published, it shows an aluminum plate. Do you suppose the pan is the aluminum plate and the wire that goes under it is connected to a sheet of aluminum and touching the plate?

Some things that are clear:
1. The man is not an idiot or fool.
2. He has a beef with egocentrics, detractors, government disinformation experts and magical thinkers.
3. He is mad as hell that people that have suggested he is a fraud.
4. If he had planned to set up the people he has a beef with, he could not have planned these videos any better to allow them to be who they are so he can crush them in the end. He just keeps removing components.
5. He has an agenda that is more social than technical in nature. The technology is just the medicine that he is using to cure the social problem.

I think you should get some cores and replicate it before you suffer an overdose of your own words.

How many of the people that have claimed he was a fraud have replicated his CREC circuit or even watched it and verified that it was 1.6 OU? I replicated it and it really does work. Using the law of probability and a mind that is capable of recognizing truth, I would be a fool to suggest he is a liar.

Here is what insanity looks like:
A belief is accepting something that is true though you have no experience of it.
A disbelief is rejecting something as true though there is experience to be had.

Here is what sanity looks like:

There are things that I know and things that I do not know. I do not know what I do not know.

If you were Dr. Stiffler and you tried to give the coolest free energy device you ever came across in your career to people searching for free energy and they instead of being thankful, called you a fool and a liar... Now wouldn't that piss you off all the way? It pisses me off all the way watching some of you do it.

Stiffler and I are not so different in our utter disdain for some of the people that claim to research OU. There is a reason that it has not been, is not being, and will not be discovered here, or most other free energy web sites. It is because of the people he described in his user agreement on his web site.

Now he is stuck in the middle. Mainstream science on one side, fringe science on the other. I stand with him until I know, or don't know if it works. In the end, I will know. I ordered 60 cores.

Science, fringe or mainstream, has become worse than anything wacko religion ever created. It is no wonder these sites attract so many people high on Jesus.

Also, to who ever suggested this was not the place to shout down the liars, con men, egocentrics, believers and disbelievers, YOU ARE WRONG! This is the perfect place, the ONLY place, to shout them down.

No wonder people like Stiffler don't help us.

It is O.K. to notice the wire under the pan. It is not O.K. to suggest he is a fraud until you know what the wire does. The wire is most likely connected to nothing in order to allow you to shove your foot in your mouth further, if that is even possible at this point.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 20, 2007, 07:53:11 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 20, 2007, 08:59:35 PM
Dear All,

Some people in this forum know my complete name, my profession
and where I live. Even Wolfgang is my first name and Friedrich (fritz)
is my middle name(nickname).
As long as I make general technical statements here - I see no reason
why everybody should know me !!??
I think Dr. Stiffler is a funny guy, which plays out the #10 funny analog
tricks to the public - this is a quite educational thing.
At least I think its a good training to analyze things - to train our
perception to differentiate between believe, fact and science.

I think the original intention of the circuit was to play around with an
"inverted hysteresis" setup. Having a resonator with nonlinear C(FET)
and nonlinear L (ferrite) envolved.
Such stuff should swing forever if excited once if properly biased.
It should be no problem for such a competent player to operate
such circuit without any wire attached using feedback.

Even if no LED attached - just selfoscillating forever - he could easily
proof this by putting a frequency analyser at his bench. (using tiny
wire to catch oscillation emmitted by this oscillator)

Because of the fact that he uses no proper prototype - and shows
no effort to make the stuff work on its own - I have the feeling that (...)
Its up to you. Funny guy.

rgds,

fritz
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 20, 2007, 09:11:20 PM
"It is O.K. to notice the wire under the pan. It is not O.K. to suggest he is a fraud until you know what the wire does. The wire is most likely connected to nothing in order to allow you to shove your foot in your mouth further, if that is even possible at this point."

well said ... except please don't dignify that silly 'wire under the pan' comment with another reference. The original poster of that inane observation was obviously too lazy to look at the previous YouTube  video where it is blatantly obvious that this wire is his ground connection. Duh.

And yes - it is true that, so-far, the system does requires a ground as a substitute for the signal and cannot be floated. Is that where the powers coming from? Surely everyone must realize that the goal is to float the system withs its own onboard timing - but this is an ongoing, evolving project. Look how far it has come in the week since the CE4 video was posted.

Doubtful that his ground could be doing this, but before the next skeptic genius chimes in, let me mention "resonant rise" as being a possibility for at least understanding how the voltage gets pumped up- but still ask yourself how can any ground connection provide about .3 v on a regular basis ;-)

At least the 'joule thief' device (site below) --- IF it does represents the limits of how far you can take resonant-rise, would indicate that you need ~.3 v of potential from somewhere, correct? ... and remember that Dr. S is now up to 20 LEDs on this same circuit.

He would still be posting these updates, and answering intelligent questions, instead of me relaying them, if some of the posters here had a little civility and respect. He wants to understand this as much as you do, and a wide number of replications and inputs is the only way to get anywhere without adding a large staff.

Here is the 'joule thief' URL:
http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/joule.htm

Jones
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 20, 2007, 09:45:38 PM
Dear All,

Ok, some suggestions:

1st:

Make the stuff work on a proper prototype:
Use a tiny copper pcb, solder the stuff in a way you
do it for rf (no cables, no wires, just components as
close as can be. (30 minutes)
Maybe(make the stuff work then) will take longer;-))

2nd:

Replace an LED by a tiny DC/DC converter which powers
a tiny RC pulse oscillator in HCMOS which operates the circuit.
(Still use external power to startup, then disconnect) (2hrs)

3rd:

Operate the stuff outside, start up with battery and move
around to proof that no radiation around. (avoid visble tranformer
houses and powerplants on the video).
You can even hold the stuff == ground it - no problem with that (2hrs)

(...)
If I discover something, I track it down to the rootcause.
Adding more LEDs is interesting - but not the way to prove the setup.
If magical things happen on my breadboard - I verify that - and dont
mystify it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 20, 2007, 10:09:01 PM
@ jonesbeene

Interesting link to the joule thief. That is something I can build today - Thanks.

To develop this friendly discussion further regarding the last CE7 video, it is worth noticing that the pan is propped up on a piece of insulating plastic. The wire is long enough to go AROUND the pan but it does not.

As long as everyone is speculating, (including me) I wonder if the wire is not connected to a piece of foil that is touching the pan and he didn't want to give that away yet. The circuit shows an aluminum plate.

I speculate  in the end, you will see that the circuit DOES float and run on it's own. Everything I have seen thus far suggests that.

I for one am very excited about this and think it is the best thing I have seen in years. A person would have to be cynical to a psycho level to think that Mr. Stiffler would go on you tube, identify himself and then play some kind of hoax on people. It is clear he is intelligent and credible.

Maybe this should be the speculation rule:
If you don't have at least 5 of those cores on order, you should not be speculating on this and if you do have them ordered, you should give Dr. Stiffler the respect and kindness we all deserve.

There is no crime in being stupid. All of us are at times in our life, including Dr. S. but exhibiting belligerence and ignorance at the same time will always be perceived as an injustice to the receiver because it is just that.

No offense to fritz or anyone else, we all know things that even Dr. Stiffler does not know. I for one can pack a parachute with blind folded or loop an airplane with a glass of water in one hand without spilling any. I'll bet Ron Stiffler can't do that! :-) But then he would be smart enough not to try... :-)

The important thing is that we share what we know and when we are wrong, we are gentle with our fellow man when it is deserved. I hope that Dr. Stiffler will be gentle with us as well, we are a "group" of individuals.

I am going to order ten more cores and get them shipped overnight air. Another week is too long to wait to start figuring this out.

Also I talked to the seller of the cores and they do come from China and they sell other shapes and sizes. Let's get this replicated and then improve it possibly with a more efficient toroid and work constructively together while we do.

Wouldn't it be something if we took this idea and replaced the crank generator in the One laptop per child laptop? The generator is the most expensive parts. If we work together on this we can do that. I live in a world of possibilities, not impossibilities.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 20, 2007, 10:16:46 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 20, 2007, 10:38:36 PM
Hey fritz - Is there really such thing as a "proper" board in the search for something that classic EM can not produce or explain such a sOU? EDIT Does cold electricity and regular electricity work the same? Do they have the same current level? Etc.

Different metals exhibit different electron affinities. I think we should replicate what is being displayed and not tell Ron what to do. Otherwise, that comes across as being a bit egocentric.

You can order some cores and put it on a "proper" board and tell us how it works.
Work things out:

If I want to know what I have found - I track it down.
1.) What is essential for the operation (Ground?)
2.) What is exchangeable (can I use green LED!?)
3.) If I "reduce" the setup shortening wires, does it influences
the circuit ? - If yes try to replace parasitary caps with real
ones ...
4.) Is it reproducible,
5.) Everytime ?
6.) Everywhere ?
7.) Temperature ? Air Pressure ?
8.) Does it work with another pulse generator ?

"Is there really such thing as a "proper" board" ?
Yes there is.
As long as you invent a "magic board" - no need.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: b0rg13 on October 20, 2007, 11:29:45 PM
hi , is anyone able to get there crayons out and draw the circut?...in a simple way with everything listed?
..there is some kind of core?..with is it cardbord or paper wraped around it ?..what kind of wire is coiled around it?..where does each end of that coil go to ?..etc ( yes im talking about a drawing a 10year old could read with everything listed and made clear).

..and how might it work ?...the core does,what?.......vibrates?,humms?(how?)..the coil around the core then picks up the vibrations and and electrons flow to make a led light up ? ( i have noidea as you can plainly see,but id like to know).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 12:02:57 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 12:05:32 AM
@ B0rg13

The circuit has 2 versions. Both are listed in this thread. He also has a web site http://stifflerscientific.com

The ebay auction where you can get the cores is listed in the thread.

hope that helps.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 12:15:45 AM
And just in case anyone was thinking about trying this.... I was bored last night.

Fugifilm makes a new video tape made of BeFe nanocrystal material. I bought one and wrapped about 100 layers on a 1" plastic tube. Since I had no way of knowing how many windings on the secondary, I wrapped for about 2" with #36 wire. (Single strand) and then placed about 20 turns of #24 on for the primary.

I hooked a scope to it and pulled off windings, hooked a 555 to it, etc. nothing aver created anything unexpected. I.e., it didn't work. I didn't have litz wire but that probably would not have mattered much.

I am looking into getting more core shapes and sizes from the same company to experiment with. Also I found a good source for Litz wire and they sell sample spools.

If somebody knows exactly what form of barium is in a core please specify. I am thinking about getting the chemical and trying to make my own as I want to experiment with pancake coil layers to build multiple cells, if this thing pans out.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 21, 2007, 12:52:26 AM
One more thought...

Dr. Ron Stiffler is not some made up user name like fritz, BEB, SPEW or even mine. He is a real person, has a real web site, has a real lab and has a real reputation.

If you are going to suggest that a real person is a fraud, you should be willing to to use your real name to do it in this public forum.

I could not agree better,
so please stop hammering on Dr. Stiffler.

I am looking forward to see his 20 LED unit.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 21, 2007, 03:51:38 AM
Hello,

If you need the BaFe cores like the ones seen used by good doc stiffler just find any AM radio or an alarm clocks with an AM radio, from 5-10 years ago. It is possible that even newest radios/alarm clocks employ the same kind of cores. In any case surely there are garage sales, pawn shops, or surplus stores in your neighbourhood that would have these kinds of items for cheap.

As far as doc stiffler, he might want to consider putting up clear instructions on how to replicate his experiments rather than posting teaser videos and having everyone take sides on the whole thing, or is that his ultimate intention?

I would personally drop the comic relief attempts and focus on the explanation of how to achieve the effect and how to replicate it with precise instructions and good schematics. There's nothing stronger than truth and facts, they will speak for themselves without a need to be a comedian...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 05:38:14 AM
Hartmann, are you drunk on fine German beer? This is the first time in ten years you have agreed with me.

@ Amego - I like the comedy. You would be a little defensive too I you were him. I am surprised he still has a sense of humor. Also he has clear instructions on his web site.

As for the source of "exact same cores". As much as I would like an excuse to rip the guts out of my alarm clock, he (Stiffler) found that only 10 out of his 15 cores worked.

That is why I bought 60 cores. So that I can replicate EXACTLY what he is showing. Otherwise, someone will probably say that HIS idea does not work. My BaFe magnetic tape experiment did not work but I'll bet you a dollar it would work in my clock radio.

I noticed that in the two schematics provided thus far, the diodes are arranged differently. I think that the diode position on the first was correct?

Can someone clear that up? I was going to redraw that schematic and include a parts/source list and get everything compiled into one document or zip file for people since this thread is getting long.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 21, 2007, 05:49:02 AM
Freenrg4me,

Not starting an argument here or anything but you say that doc stiffler's instructions are clear on his site, yet two paragraphs later you are asking about diodes in the schematics. That to me sounds like the instructions were not clear and confirms what I have written prior, so I stand by what I wrote :)

Otherwise, if we have to buy 60 cores to find a good one to replicate this experiment then we might as well drop the whole thing and go do something else, maybe enjoy our lives...that's like finding an easy solution to anti-gravity that anyone can build, but you need to get ore from the Moon to replicate it.

In any case I am looking forward seeing all the (positive) replications based on his current instructions. Also, that fellow on eBay must be making a killing selling those cores now :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 06:17:02 AM
@ Amego - I stand corrected on the diode and clear instructions statement.

But then you have to ask the question, does it matter or did he change it on purpose? The reality is anyone with half a functioning brain would have found the instructions on his web site or in in this thread and noticed the diode change and would try both directions. I was just trying to clear that up for those that don't have half a functioning brain.

Also - you don't need to buy sixty cores and I think anyone with half a functioning brain knows that. I plan to give them as Christmas gifts to the kids I know in an effort inspire them to search and discover things on their own during their lives so they don't grow up to be like... Well, enjoy your trip to the moon.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: passion1 on October 21, 2007, 07:20:01 AM
I was going to redraw that schematic and include a parts/source list and get everything compiled into one document or zip file for people since this thread is getting long.
Freenrg4me

Thank you Freenrg4me!
Myself (and I am sure most of the other following this thread) will really appreciate such an effort.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 21, 2007, 09:03:49 AM
Fritz, you missed my point again and so this is probably pointless but I will try one more time because I value you.

When you use the word "proper", you are suggesting that he is improper.

If you want a proper circuit, go buy a LED flashlight. Until then, stop suggesting to Ron what he should be doing or speaking to/about him in a condescending way. That is one of the reasons he does not come here. We wish he would come here or somewhere but I don't blame him.

Just stop. O.K.?

I never called somebody a liar, I don?t expect a fraud,
I believe that everything is "as is".
Throwing the first stone is not my hobby - people who worked
with me know this.
Maybe his way of working is not the way I would do it (I?m used to),
maybe the way how he does the videos is not my style.
Anyway I?m busy with other stuff, I spent a serious amount of time
on this stuff so far - I did this "in bona fide" with no interest to hurt
somebody personally. If you suggest me to stop this - no problem.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 09:14:19 AM
Thanks Fritz.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 21, 2007, 09:21:35 AM
I plan to give them as Christmas gifts to the kids I know in an effort inspire them to search and discover things on their own during their lives so they don't grow up to be like... Well, enjoy your trip to the moon.

@Freenrg4me
Which Christmas will that be? These project normally get exiting when the thread gets to page 100 then the thread splits. As an example look at the TPU or Meyer threads!

For the moment I hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 09:54:43 AM
This Christmas - Being an old retired guy myself, I have a lot of time. Ron has given enough detail to replicate this in an hour once I have the cores.

Stan Meyer patented his technology and then apparently sold it to the merchants of death. He took the secrets to the grave with him and in the end, he achieved nothing, he left behind nothing and he gained nothing.

Ron Stiffler has generously and openly shared an anomaly that shows promise and a CREC invention that has been proved to be OU. Ron has not patented any of it to my knowledge and he does this open source. Ron is alive, he has my undying respect and he is leaving something behind.

As far as "interesting" Meyer threads are concerned, I would love to know about that. We still have people creating mark space circuits to "enhance" production... Meyer needed the space to limit production and that is exactly what it does. I swear, the over unity movement is a gathering place for people that suffer from ADD. (Mercury poisoning AKA - Attention Deficit Disorder)

There is a goofball on youtube replicating the "Dave cell alternator method" because he wanted to prove you don't need a battery to produce electrolysis. I congratulated him on his amazing discovery that an alternator produces electricity...

The reality is that I am primary interested in this technology because I have read all the nearly 300 pages of Meyer stuff, built several cell configurations, many of the circuits including the toroid transformer, and none of it did anything.

What I want to know, and the question was asked by Dr. Stiffler in another experiment, is this related to the Meyer process?

Example - Meyer shows a cell (electron extractor) formed from a semiconducting material in a binder. Could that material have been barium ferrite since barium resonates almost exactly ten times that of H1? Notice that there were two coils of wire on one of the Meyer cell configurations?

The more you know about Meyer and Stiffler, the more the dots start to possibly connect. I think Stiffler knows more than he is letting on and would prefer we "discovered" it ourselves. Nothing good could come to him from connecting some dots for us.

Besides, most people are so inverted, if it is true, they think it is a lie, black is white, up is down. Most people (Americans) have been so chemically dumbed down from aspartame and MSG, they only have 30% on the neurons they would naturally have. Aspartame and MSG are excitotoxins and they cause your neurons to upload calcium until they burst. Chemicals added to your food to keep you a slave courtesy the Zionst, neocons and Nazis (all same thing) that hijacked America.

That's my answer and my final rant for the day. Goodnight.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 21, 2007, 11:35:40 AM
Besides, most people are so inverted, if it is true, they think it is a lie, black is white, up is down. Most people (Americans) have been so chemically (...)

I think the underlying problem is the existence of black/white, up/down, true/lie
topology itself.
Working together(as European) with my colleagues in San Jose was quite thrilling.
If you agree, they love you, if you dare to raise some critical comment they feel
personal offended.
Don?t know if that is a language or cultural problem. (wrong input or unexpected response)
I prefer the "grey" topology.
For me, a critcal comment means that somebody is interested - no comment or just blind "yes"
- not (really) interested.
What is black / white for if its used by so different, individual people ?

rgds, yes this is off-topic.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 03:03:55 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 21, 2007, 03:41:01 PM
For the benefit of those who are actually working to replicate, or to try variations of cores LEDs etc, or to improve on this circuit, it would be better NOT to begin with the old CE5 or earlier incarnations, in my opinion.

The old one does work, but the newer circuit will drive at least 20 LEDs (now way more than that) so why go backwards? It is simple, and copyrighted to Dr.Stiffler so do not post it elsewhere. Please do post your results - positive or negative.

The only way to make huge strides quickly is cooperation and openness. Knowing what doesn't work is almost as helpful as knowing what does. I will not bore you with yet another requote of Edison's famous quip about incandescent lamp filaments.

Jones
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 21, 2007, 03:53:27 PM
The sling and double-sling effect are discussed on the German site here:
http://www.evert.de/eft708e.htm

There are probably other names for this effect as well, but the reason it is mentioned here now, wrt a completely different subject, is that it suggests a mechanical way that a purely passive blocking system for one form of energy, can boost the total output in another form, so long as net losses are minimized. IOW one can block linear motion to increase circumferential (angular momentum) and so forth. To me it is an apt analogy for an EM systems, but only valuable in either type if the
net gain does not include low grade heat, as is most often the case, and is able to boost ambient energy in someway into the alternate form.

In effect, a dielectric or semiconductor which presents an impediment to electron flow can possibly
boost the net energy available in photons, so long as there is little waste heat, and if ambient energy has been cohered.

All of this came up in response the mention of 'resonant rise' and the observation that the Imris
patent presents a similar 'resonant rise' principle to the Stiffler CE7 circuit.

US Patent # 3,781,601   Canadian Patent # 951836

"Optical Generator of an Electrostatic Field having Longitudinal Oscillations at Light Frequencies for Use in an Electrical Circuit"

Pavel Imris was awarded this expired patent in the 1970s. The patent is most interesting in that it
claims a device having an output power nine times greater, in photons, than the equivalent input power.
The device uses a series of xenon tubes- quartz glass envelope which contains xenon gas under pressure (the higher the pressure, the greater the gain of the device).

The same kind of resonant rise apparently is at work in the CE7.

Each Imris lamp can work to its full specification on less than one-fortieth of its rated input power.
However, these tubes are not nearly as efficient initially, in terms of lumens per watt as the LED; but
even so- the claimed light output power of more than nine times the input power should have made it a
commercial item, despite the exorbitant cost of xenon. Or else the claims are overblown. Does anyone know for sure?

Anyway, from the point of view of any individual lamp, before using this Imris series circuit, it required 40 watts of electrical input power to give 8.8 watts of light output, an efficiency of about 22%. In one test, the input power per lamp was 0.9 watts for the 8.8 watts of light produced, which is a lamp efficiency of more than 900%. Quite an impressive performance for so simple a device, but FAR FAR less so than the Stiffler LED circuit which is now driving an enormous # of LEDs with almost no input.

I is just a matter of time before the light from a future incarnation of Stiffler's circuit is focused to
a solar cell so that the device can 'float,' and remove all possible doubt that ground, or a tiny signal can
be powering the large array of LEDs.

Jones
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 21, 2007, 04:24:57 PM
@Freenrg4me

I believe the idea here is not to play games or teach "students" new things through puzzles. If those of us with 1/4 of a brain have to figure out how to positively replicate this instead of a straight forward put this here and there, then it leads me to believe good old doc has purposely obscured it.

At this point of time it should be more important to allow everyone to replicate the effects as easy as possible, instead of giving them somewhat incomplete details and hoping they figure it out on their own. A positive replication from dozens of people would stand out as an undeniable proof of validity of claims from the doc. So far I haven't read about anyone yet confirming this to be working...

Oh, and you forgot to add Fluoride as a neurotoxin in water that keeps people docile. It worked for Stalin to keep his prison population at bay, and it surely works on most Americans as well :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 09:16:02 PM
@Freenrg4me

I believe the idea here is not to play games or teach "students" new things through puzzles. If those of us with 1/4 of a brain have to figure out how to positively replicate this instead of a straight forward put this here and there, then it leads me to believe good old doc has purposely obscured it.

Oh, and you forgot to add Fluoride as a neurotoxin in water that keeps people docile. It worked for Stalin to keep his prison population at bay, and it surely works on most Americans as well :D

The information is really quite complete but the project is evolving, the information is spread out and nobody has cores to replicate with yet. I am working with fritz to get it all in one basket and now see we have another schematic with yet more LEDs. That is cause to celebrate!

You are right, it must be the fluoride in the water. They are also adding aspartame to vaccinations that babies get. I read an interesting article the other day online where the pentagon plans to fall back to a "legitimate government" if people rise up in rebellion. These are different times and people need to wake up if they can. Glad to see you are.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 22, 2007, 04:03:35 AM

I understand consistency being a large factor in replication attempts, but if the key is the resonance of barium, then size of the core should have nothing to do with it. Any size core would still display the same affects simply because it is barium ferrite, not because of its physical size.

I'm sure you all have a bit of the stuff around,

if not, demagnetize some magnets in the oven and start playing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 22, 2007, 05:51:30 AM
I believe I have the right core, and it did come from the old alarm clock. It looks just like the ones on eBay, yet I am still unable to light even one LED. Perhaps my psi powers are not as strong as doc stifflers? ;)

I am not sure what the trick here is, so I might as well wait till others replicate this so it works then try it again...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 22, 2007, 07:27:26 AM
@ amego

I believe I have the right core, and it did come from the old alarm clock. It looks just like the ones on eBay, yet I am still unable to light even one LED. Perhaps my psi powers are not as strong as doc stifflers? ;)

psi powers???

Amego, do I need to verbally rip you in half and wear your lower torso for pants in order to set an example?

Are you working over an aluminum plate? The schematics clearly show the aluminum plate below the circuit. Is your core  680uf? Did you make the proper choke? Etc.

I did try the barium magnet idea withing hours of seeing the first video but had no luck with that. And so we will get some cores and let the science take us where it does. Nobody knows for sure including Stiffler from the sound of it. He was wanting to show us what he had and get some help replicating it and figuring it out and how to make it better. What in the hell is this place for if not for that? Why can't that be done without being insulted by empty idiots?

Be constructive, not destructive. Otherwise, all you do is teach anyone with original ideas to keep it to themselves. That is what I have learned from this. If I discover something and want help in figuring it out, I won't use one of these forums after seeing what happened to Dr. Stiffler.

Have you looked at his CREC stuff? He took down the videos but that was really informative in regards to measuring output. The extra pulse (recycled energy) was about 80% of the input on my scope and that is a cool idea. He also has a circuit to provide a quick reverse pulse to clear the electrodes and that is what was making that pulse of gas in his bucket video - another original idea. Clean electrodes make more gas.

He has original ideas and hangs it all out there. I like that because it takes intelligence and balls. It takes zero intelligence or balls to sit back and make cracks about something you have little or no first hand experience at. I wonder where we would be right now if we all went forward like Stiffler? Posting experiments and results. Way ahead of where we are now, that is for sure.

The reality is, we don't know what Stiffler has discovered and I doubt he fully does either. But what this has taught  us is what we do not want, what we can not tolerate in the search for OU if we are to be successful.

It is one thing to make observations, it is another thing to make insults.

Every time you do that I am going to confront you and I don't care if the cowards that agree with me sit there and say nothing. I am my own man and I am comfortable in my old skin and can deal with the likes of you anytime.

Why do you work against the over unity research amego? You have invested nothing but you wise cracks into this. Are you a counter intelligence agent? Do you have a personality defect or both? Do you have a nice lab like Doc Stiffler packed with equipment? Do you have original ideas? Do you hang it out there? Nope, you just attack those that do. Don't piss me off, unlike Stiffler, I don't have such a good sense of humor.

Now grow up and act like an intelligent adult or go do something else. We are researchers, not character assassins.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 22, 2007, 02:24:49 PM
whoa wait a second, I think you are way out of line.

I know you are being upright in protecting what you think is just and fair, and I too applaud DR. Stifler for his efforts,
however I believe amigo was just trying to say that he had no luck.

There is a famous report by the united states gov where they evaluate John Hutchisons work. They see the results first hand, are sure it works, but nobody is able to replicate it, thus they came to the conclusion, and this is documented, that Hutchison himself was the magic ingredient, and they said that he could influence the experiment with his mind.

THUS if you cant get a replication to work, you dont have a strong enough mental influence, JUST A HARMLESS JOKE, NO HARM. Lets put those weapons down, I think we have established that stifler is no fake.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 22, 2007, 07:48:27 PM
JUST A HARMLESS JOKE, NO HARM. Lets put those weapons down, I think we have established that stifler is no fake.

I think what this has experience taught us is that a "HARMLESS JOKE" DOES CAUSE HARM and serves no purpose but to cause harm. Amego is the same person that was suggesting in a previous post wrote

"I would personally drop the comic relief attempts and focus on the explanation of how to achieve the effect and how to replicate it with precise instructions and good schematics. There's nothing stronger than truth and facts, they will speak for themselves without a need to be a comedian..."

and furthermore, I am not out of line.

I will give you an example, last week I tried a bunch of harmless chemicals and elements to enhance electrolysis production that won't cause the cell to scum up like salt. I found two that work nicely and both of them are ingredients that humans consume and are inexpensive.

Did I post that anywhere? Hell no!

Yesterday I figured out how to make a cell that makes the output production and effecency of EVERYTHING I have seen so far look pathetic and it does that for a tiny fraction of the cost of stainless tubes or plates. Do you see me posting that anywhere? Nope.

Now why do you think that is? The answer is simple. I don't need the hassle from someone that can't follow instructions and replicate a circuit with 5 components and why would I give anything to the worst enemy of over unity research?

amego with his brand new username and 5 posts is most likely a disinfo agent. My sole purpose until they are exposed and chased away is to do just that. You would think Hartmann would have a vested interest in making an example of a few people to accomplish that task.

This forum has been running for close to ten years in various incarnations but has produced nothing but hassle and fear for anyone that has discovered anything interesting or much less OU. They have relegated these forums to being useless and pointless. My only purpose here is to make a whole hearted attempt to replicate something I find of interest from someone else created, I.e., validate that person with a good idea, and or, suppress the detractors, egocentrics and disinformation experts.

If I ever want to share something, I will do it privately and I will share it with someone with a long history of being serious and showing courage in draining the pond of scum.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 22, 2007, 08:31:33 PM
Perhaps you are not familiar with eastern philosophy which coincidentally leaks into fundamental western views on morality and life in general.

Should the individual stated be a disinformant, he is welcome. He poses a different point of view and represents the opposition we all need. Without dark how can we know light exists? How hot is hot without reference to cold? Why do we work on decreasing friction in machinery when we need that friction to function? Because we need a balance of everything. We need opinion from all sides.

You my friend are free to pick and choose what you believe, that is the gift we have as humans.

I believe a fundamental error has been committed by many. Knowledge is knowledge and is voluble weather correct or incorrect. Who among you can say you have replicated every device you have learned something from? I have learned a lot from things I have read about, and never actually tried myself. Much of what I know may be incorrect, if I find this out to be true in the future, that piece of knowledge will also be added to my arsenal, and again my base of information will grow.

You serve nobody but yourself in keeping knowledge. You may have made many significant discoveries within the last week, I do not doubt you, unfortunately you have condemned humanity to a rank of incompetence, and decide to keep your info to yourself. Basically you have made judgment upon another for an act not yet committed.

Ever heard of a preemptive strike? (USA?.Middle east?cough cough) this is one of the fundamental fallacies listed in many texts concerning logic and argument.

This is not to say that you are without right at being upset at the many people who ?nay say? much of the research that happens here. I to do not post all I learn, but I do so because I don?t feel I can present it in a irrefutable way yet. (and partly due to the nay sayers, nobody is perfect) You are within your rights.

I would simply like to make a request of the entire community.

Please, limit conversation to productive avenues. If you disagree, awesome, let us know. If you are disagreed with?.you didn?t see it coming? How will you respond? I don?t think I need to spell out proper discussion decorum in a room full of adults.

For the love of a higher deity of your choosing??.RESPECT your fellow man, even if he has disrespected you. You believe yourself superior no? then act in accordance.

We are all guilty of falling out of line yourself included.

Why do you think DR S does not post himself? id take a shot at awnsering, but I think deep down you all already know the awnser, finger off the trigger guys.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: rburley on October 22, 2007, 09:44:29 PM
Hi
Try series resonance you get very high voltages across the cap and inductor.
All the Best
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 22, 2007, 09:47:54 PM
armagdn03 Whatever... If you value someone who gets paid to cause disruption and drive away real researchers, well...

As far an being free to choose the God of my choice, mine told me "don't throw your pearls to swine."

And so I will be offline for a while because unlike some of you, I actually build things, do research and produce original ideas nearly every day. I spend roughly \$300 hundred a week on this for materials and gear and I am beginning to have something to show for it.

But trust me pal, nothing I create that is original will be thrown to the swine that swims here and that is the same reason Stiffler does not, just to clear up your last line...

So feel free to pontificate whether the cat is in the box or some guy melts metal with his mind but I am too busy doing research for your nonsense. BTW - That report on Hutchinson was surely true since that honest US government documented it for you. Make up your mind.

Final thought - If you are going to attempt to use higher order thinking in an attempt to defend what is probably your partner, don't leave out the thinking part. You only expose yourself for who and what you are.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 22, 2007, 10:33:55 PM
I wish you the best, and I hope your experimenting goes well! hopefully we will here from you again and you will find it in your heart to share what you have worked so hard for.

Perhaps there are swine among us, I have found negativity around every corner I cross in life, even this one, what one does with that is what defines them.

@All
come on guys, we all know what is right and what is wrong. We know what helps the cause and what is a waste of time. You are not swine. You have taken the time out of your day to attempt to solve a problem that plagues your fellow man.

p.s. thanks for clearing up my last line on the previous post, I think that after your kind words it rings loud and clear.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 23, 2007, 01:55:58 AM
@Freenrg4me

I truly respect what you say, but then again I will respect what everyone says as well, as long as it is said with conviction. Person who stands behind what s/he believes in is worth two that don't use their heads to think for they believe what they are told by someone else.

I did not come here to start a flame war, I only joined this forum recently, and no armagdn03 is not my partner in some sort of a conspiracy against you or anyone else, matter a fact I do not know armagdn03 more than I know you.

But here are the facts. Doc Stiffler did not clearly describe how to replicate his experiment, instead he video it as a tease if we are to decide by the audio commentary. Maybe what he posted makes sense to you but it does not to me, nor to dozens of others who have posted their vows here for more information, scope screenshots, etc. It is not that I do not believe doc is a man of character of integrity, I grant that to anyone I meet or hear from the first time because I believe everyone (should) have some in them.

Or am I making a fatal mistake to have too much faith into humanity, because what you have said truly disturbs me:

Quote
But trust me pal, nothing I create that is original will be thrown to the swine that swims here and that is the same reason Stiffler does not, just to clear up your last line...

Is this how you really feel? Because if that's the case than I see another intelligent person that has fallen down into the vortex of have and have nots. This planet is riddled with such beings, minority of those who have and majority of those who have not.

I ask rhetorically, are those of us here, and elsewhere, who are seeking the answers into Free Energy doing this for our own interest or for the betterment of human kind as a whole. Granted there are those who wish to profit from it, but I would hope that majority is genuinely interested in helping this world progress beyond the primitive dark ages (of both the body and the mind) that we are living in.

If you are unwilling to share your insights and knowledge with the rest of us when you re-discover something of importance because you consider us "swine that swim", then perhaps you belong to some other (elite) group elsewhere that is closed to the public and has their own agenda of world domination or whatever other evil plan they have in their twisted perverted minds.

Last words of wisdom, if I may share them with you on this subject, are that our "overlords" see us as human resource, expendable crew (red shirts ;) ) and useless eaters. The only way we could possibly fight them is to stand together - united, as human kind against the evil they represent. Please have that in mind next time you decide to scold us over our words, and when the time comes remember to forgive - not judge.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 02:47:12 AM
amigo my friend (no pun intended) leave it alone.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 03:52:25 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 03:53:29 AM
But here are the facts. Doc Stiffler did not clearly describe how to replicate his experiment, instead he video it as a tease if we are to decide by the audio commentary.

Did you watch all 7 videos? In each video the circuit is clearly shown on video, he has released 3 schematics, a complete parts list and in many of the videos, he takes you step by step through the circuit. Are you insane or a complete idiot?

As for the rest of what you say, I agree with some of it, unfortunately it is in contradiction to some of your previous posts. There is a little button called quote and if you need me to go through your short posting history under your brand new user name and quote you, I will. That is where the rubber meets the road.

Notice there is nobody here working on this? Maybe they took a trip to the moon to get some of that antigravity technology you spoke of in an earlier post.

And I didn't call everyone here swine, just you and your buddy.

And one other thing counselor, we met in another thread, your writing style is very distinct, it is the reason you only have a few posts on your brand new user name and I already exposed you for who you are.

If you knew what you don't know, you would know why a bunch of people are falling out of their chairs laughing at you right now. Enjoy your little party. I have other things to do.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 03:55:17 AM
But here are the facts. Doc Stiffler did not clearly describe how to replicate his experiment, instead he video it as a tease if we are to decide by the audio commentary.
Did you watch all 7 videos? In each video the circuit is clearly shown on video, he has released 3 schematics, a complete parts list and in many of the videos, he takes you step by step through the circuit. Are you insane or a complete idiot?

As for the rest of what you say, I agree with some of it, unfortunately it is in contradiction to some of your previous posts. There is a little button called quote and if you need me to go through your short posting history under your brand new user name and quote you, I will. That is where the rubber meets the road.

Notice there is nobody here working on this? Maybe they took a trip to the moon to get some of that antigravity technology you spoke of in an earlier post.

And I didn't call everyone here swine, just you and your buddy.

And one other thing counselor, we met in another thread, your writing style is very distinct, it is the reason you only have a few posts on your brand new user name and I already exposed you for who you are.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 06:03:20 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 01:18:38 PM
@ b0rg13

There is nothing going on in this thread. I am only here because I enjoy exposing government counter intelligence agents - call it a hobby.

As far as the research, you can go back a few pages and find the latest schematic. He is up to around 16 LEDS now.

Due to these people, many closed forums have been set up in different countries. Make intelligent posts, do research and be helpful and they will invite you to join them. I belong to several and believe me, it is a different experience than you will find here.

As far as overunity.com goes, because the counter intelligence community finds such this such a welcome home, most people don't trust this site and do not want to share anything new here.

Dr. Stiffler is a real scientist and so they attack him in an effort to train other people from the science community to not help out so I defend him.

They use routines based upon the psychological theories of Marty Seligman, among others. (Seligman introduced the theory of learned helplessness in the 1960s, after shocking beagles until they cowered, urinating, on the bottom of their cages.)

I stuck around to toy with them and defend Stiffler. It's been fun Nazis!

Now I must find that unsubscribe button. Hey Harmann, delete my account. I though with it. :-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 02:08:10 PM
@ AhuraMazda Ha Ha Ha! Elvis couldn't resist and slipped in the back door. Hum... That was an unfortunate choice of words. No offense to the king. :-)

I exposed her private detective buddy in another thread. It took me two days to get him so unglued he told me enough to to determine exactly who he is, where he lives and his phone number. It's posted.

As far as this circuit goes, one of the brighter people here just emailed me a really good explanation and a replication built on a crow bar of all things. I'm serious, I about fell out of my chair laughing when I saw that. A \$2000 + dollar scope sitting on his bench and he built it on a freeking pry bar. He probably had a core laying around but was showing off I suspect. :-) RF guys are competitive. :-)

Anyway, I will hook him up with the Doc and let them work it out. RF is over my head.

I am more interested in Stiffler's other stuff like the CREC and learning how to do science more professionally. I also want to know if this odd circuit is how Meyer was creating a bunch of gas at mw power levels, or thought he was.

I just had a thought, since platinum is a catalyst for hydrogen and will make the hydrogen explode on contact, why not make a water injector that sparks the water with a plasma from platinum contacts. Basically the Meyer injector with the business end of the resonant cavity plated in platinum? Uses less plasma and better reaction.

I talked to Zigarous racing (miss-spelled) and they say you can feed H2O2 into the intake of a internal combustion engine with no problem. I have a new electrode design that should cost about 5 cent on the dollar of tubes and work way better, last just a long and be lighter and easier to build. PM me and we will hook up.

There you go lawyer lady, run down to the patent office and lock up that technology!

Don't you think we notice that a lawyer with no tech. experience is hanging out here 8 hours a day? Don't you think we  and ask ourselves, what's up with that? Don't you think we analyze things like writing style, words used, etc.. Perhaps counter intelligence is an accurate title.

God I'm going to miss this place, so fertile... Like shooting fish in a barrel.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 04:22:58 PM
Hey something of interest,

I have had some marginal results with the circuit so far, bit of fine tuning yet to be done.

But you mention that someone has replicated over a crowbar? Now thats interesting! was he using the same frequencies? did he use the resonant frequency of iron instead?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 23, 2007, 05:42:25 PM
Please can we come back to a normal pure technical discussion please ?

I got a picture from Dr. Stiffler lighting up 15 LEDs,
but he siad it is not for publishing.

Also he did not state anything else,
if there is still used the signal generator near it or
if it is tuned to the nearby radio station he told us
he is having in his neighbourhood.

But he also clearly shows us his measurements results in his chart.
(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce4chart01.gif)

where you can see a power amplification of about 3:1 at 12 Mhz...
So I guess he is using this effect somehow.

Just give him some more time to check it all out and prepare for more documentation.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 06:57:43 PM
I was visiting his website a few days ago and found this graph, looked at it a while and now I think there is a contradiction.

First interesting choice of axis labeling, should the independant not be on the x axis? Are we to read that on the fourth point we have the highest power around frequency 0???

also

If we are basing the results off of the barium ferrite core resonanting at a frequency of 10Mhz, then why is it a linear growth on the graph, with no decernable change in characteristics floating around the 10Mhz resonant point? In fact the graph seems to cruise past 10Mhz without anything happening. From this I would think that the core maybe has less to do with this than we previously thought. If this were an effect due to the excitation of the barium ferrite I would assume the graph would look more like this....

(http://www.countis.com/graph.gif)
the axis labels and units would be different of course, but you get the idea

(which I found typing "resonance graph" into google, and coincidentally the first site was on resonance of barrium products, lol, think god is pointing at something)

Instead what I think is happening is we are making the periods shorter and shorter as we increase the frequency. This crams more and more of the energy in to a capacitive coupling form of energy. This is consistent with teslas findings where he tried desperately to create shorter and shorter spark time lengths with magnets, blowers, flame, moving fluids.

Im not sure if he is using the sine wave output, but I have had more luck with abrupt shut off times comming from either pulse mode, or a rectified suqare wave mode (which saturates the primary a bit better). Short pulses mean more power extraction, and the more short pulses there are the more cycles we have to gain energy from, hence the high frequency.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 23, 2007, 07:48:56 PM
Hi

Great day today

Stifler put part 2 on his web site now maybe some eat their dog

www.stifflerscientific.com/ce4.asp
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: starcruiser on October 23, 2007, 07:52:25 PM
try a colpitts or maybe a blocking osc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 23, 2007, 08:24:55 PM
Alternative Circuit:

->Important to use state of the art high efficiency leds.

Ground Setup:
No special grounding, groundwire connected to "house" ground -
all my equippement seen here is plugged into the same multiple
socket with grounding.

If I touch the hot end of the oscilloscope probe with my thumb,
(leaving the gnd of the probe unconnected)
you see the following:
->"Ground Finger" picture

Means the potential difference between oscilloscope(mains) ground
and my fingertip is 100Vpp. If I lift my right or left foot the voltage goes
down slightly - if I jump into the air - there is still lots of potential difference -
because my whole body is a capacitor.
(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)

I wont say that my ground is too bad - normal condition.
If I would use a grounded conductive table and a conductive grounding
carpet(like you have it in special labs) this picture would look different

Ok, first I check how many LEDs I can light
with my fingertip and a ground connection:
The audio analyser socket here is grounded, the analyze is turned off,
This analyser is very heavy, completly shielded and grounded - a good gnd.
First I tried one LED - but you can probably use up to 20 LED in series.
The current in such a case is controlled by the resistance of myself
to ambient ground. This resistance is very high - thats why "I" am acting
as current source. It doesn?t matter if you connect 1 - or  4 as in the
video - the brightness of the individual LED is the same (due to me as
current source)
-> "Ground Fingerx" Video

The interesting part is - who pays for this ground-ground electricity ?
My electricity counter isnt grounded ;-)))
Does it end up on the counter of some neighbour ?
This is of course not overunity - but maybe free energy (!!)

Anyway, grounding is an issue.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 23, 2007, 08:41:44 PM
Comments on Dr. Stifflers Part2 circuit:

What is not currently understood is why the addition of a capacitor in place of the LED reflects an increase of current through R2 ?
Thats simple, it decreases the inpedance of the overall circuit towards the generator.
This increases the current on R2.

I did a nice experiment with my generator:
I connected 2 green LEDs in series to a 5 Volt square output of my Generator:
The 2 LEDs are glimming very low. (because the 2*2.7Volts are barely reached)
If I separate the 2 Leds by 2 30cm long wires - the intensity is up to 10 times brighter.
Even if I connect the oscilloscope probe to the LEDs in series - there is an increase
in brightness.
Hmmm. The wire transforms the impedance, in this case the extra impedance from
the scope probe increases the voltage on the setup.
(normally, in DC you would expect the opposite)
well, thats rf,

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 09:05:18 PM
@fritz

so you are saying that we have an impedance matching issue? if thats the case here is one to consider,

does the impedance of the plug affect the driving circuit? (excluding the generator)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on October 23, 2007, 09:06:13 PM

If we are basing the results off of the barium ferrite core resonanting at a frequency of 10Mhz, then why is it a linear growth on the graph, with no decernable change in characteristics floating around the 10Mhz resonant point?

It's because there's nothing in the core that resonates around 10MHz.   That 10MHz figure you have is for nuclear magentic resonance imaging.  At the atomic level, that means:

- You apply an enormous magnetic field.

- Like a clock spring attached to a flywheel, the magnetic field keeps the atoms aligned in a particular direction.

- If you disturb the alignment, they'll oscillate back and forth at some frequency, again like the flywheel+spring.

- If disturb them with an oscillating force at that frequency, they'll resonate and their oscillations will grow (relatively) large.

Now, in exactly the same way that the resonant frequency of a wheel+spring depends on the strength of the spring, the resonant frequency of an atom in NMR depends on the strength of the magnetic field.

That is why the figures were quoted relative to H at 100MHz.  It means that if you apply a magnetic field of the strength that makes H resonate at 100MHz, then barium will resonate at 10MHz.

If you don't apply an enormous magnetic field at all, you don't have any of this kind of nuclear resonance at all.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 23, 2007, 09:45:49 PM
Hi fritz!

Hey nice but where you built Stifler circuit? So what you mix good fruit with bad?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 23, 2007, 11:09:02 PM

If we are basing the results off of the barium ferrite core resonanting at a frequency of 10Mhz, then why is it a linear growth on the graph, with no decernable change in characteristics floating around the 10Mhz resonant point?

It's because there's nothing in the core that resonates around 10MHz.   That 10MHz figure you have is for nuclear magentic resonance imaging.  At the atomic level, that means:

- You apply an enormous magnetic field.

- Like a clock spring attached to a flywheel, the magnetic field keeps the atoms aligned in a particular direction.

- If you disturb the alignment, they'll oscillate back and forth at some frequency, again like the flywheel+spring.

- If disturb them with an oscillating force at that frequency, they'll resonate and their oscillations will grow (relatively) large.

Now, in exactly the same way that the resonant frequency of a wheel+spring depends on the strength of the spring, the resonant frequency of an atom in NMR depends on the strength of the magnetic field.

That is why the figures were quoted relative to H at 100MHz.  It means that if you apply a magnetic field of the strength that makes H resonate at 100MHz, then barium will resonate at 10MHz.

If you don't apply an enormous magnetic field at all, you don't have any of this kind of nuclear resonance at all.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

The self resonant frequency of an AM ferrite antenna is around 10MHz.
This resonance is given by the inductivity of the coil and the parasitary
capacity of the winding. Every winding builds somewhat capacity to the
next winding. This distributed capacity forms a parallel LC circuit - in this
case with resonance around 10MHz.
The primary coil on top of the original coil forms another parasitary capacitor -
in our case around 20-40pF

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 23, 2007, 11:20:11 PM
@fritz

so you are saying that we have an impedance matching issue? if thats the case here is one to consider,

does the impedance of the plug affect the driving circuit? (excluding the generator)
Even if you see no ground here on the schematic of part2, there is straight
ac/rf path from the led to the generator. Any change in this path - including
a measurement with the scope or a change in the connection to the generator
changes the load from the perspective of the generator. This is why a replacement
of the led against a big capacitor changes the current from the generator, the voltage
on series resistor R2.
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 11:22:14 PM
I am very confused now.

I have been reading up on alot of NMR and MRI just to make sure I have the science correct, and it seems that maximum spin happens after two variables are colide if you will. One is a minimum magnetic saturation (which is kinda like bias, as if you were to use a transistor you have to have a bias) and the other is frequency. From what I understand the bandwidth of activity in the elements is not very high at all, which is good in the medical field since it allows us to selectively see things.

here is a graph of an experiment where we would keep the magnetic field constant and vary the frequency

(http://www.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/chap-3/images/cw-swb.gif)
http://www.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/chap-3/images/cw-swb.gif
and here is one where we would vary the magnetic field

(http://www.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/chap-3/c7-2.htm)
http://www.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/chap-3/c7-2.htm
the last animation does not work so I added the links in

as you can see we need to reach a certain magnetic field strength to see results.

But if  we have a narrow window of magnetic field strength and frequency,

how are we able to see results at super low power? I wouldnt think this is enough to bias the element
How come our output is not in some way connected to the graph of the spin (up to saturation) of barium since that is what is suposedly the key?

something is not adding up here. Definitly NOT CRYING FOUL, just saying I dont think we are even close to understanding the role of barium yet if any role at all.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 23, 2007, 11:24:13 PM
Hi fritz!

Hey nice but where you built Stifler circuit? So what you mix good fruit with bad?

Well, here is a little bit more of a similar circuit,
I?m not able to replicate it because I don?t have the right
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 11:24:38 PM
an interesting thought with no science to back it up.....

what if very little energy is needed to resonate atoms in a capacitive manor rather than a magnetic one? what implications would this have?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on October 23, 2007, 11:46:47 PM

The self resonant frequency of an AM ferrite antenna is around 10MHz.

Hi Fritz,  have you measured that to be around 10MHz or you judged?  If you only judged, I would say you are probably correct if you remove the ferrite rod from the coil and  refer to the self-resonant frequency of the now air core coil, right?.

Because the high permeability of the ferrite core would still dominate the inductance of the coil at 10MHz (even though the permeability certainly gets reduced with increasing frequency) so the presence of the core would not let such a high self resonant frequency.  Do you agree?
My understanding is an AM ferrite antenna coil has approximatly  600-700uH of self inductance around 0.5-1MHz. Suppose it still has about 70uH inductance left at 10MHz, right?  This 70uH needs  about 1.5pF (distributed and parasitic capacitance) to resonate at 10MHz, right?  And the AM coil on the ferrite rod surely has higher than 1.5pF distributed cap due to the many turns of wire, this surely has to lower the self resonance frequency of the ferrite antenna well below 10MHz.

Kind regards
Gyula
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 11:51:01 PM
@dork - Fritz is just doing what he can to try to figure this out and produce an explanation. That is a good thing, no? He has good intent and experience. At least he is doing experiments and posting results. I will defend my friend Fritz or Ron as long as they are trying to do science. (right or wrong) If they make a mistake, we will be kind to them for trying to explain something interesting or find something new. Neither of them have ill intent.

@ Fritz - Hey in one of the pictures with the crowbar (When I expand it to full size) where you are holding the LEDS, I noticed that the primary is not connected at either end but the signal is going through the secondary to the LEDS in your fingers. How is that a replication of the Stiffler circuit since Stiffler has an open end on one coil? Are you just trying to show that you can hold an LED and get it to light by touching the right power source and your body being a good impedance match? You mentioned the importance of impedance matching - Just curious.

Also, that ebay site sells variable capacitors  - do you think that would be helpful in tuning? Stiffler used a silver dipped mica cap. Do caps have reactance speeds?

The reason I ask is in the Meyer circuit, US patent 4798661, Meyer describes what looks like an air plate capacitor submerged in distilled water. Now why would someone go though the hassle of creating that if a simple off the shelf capacitor will work? Could someone teach me about charge/discharge speed of a capacitor?

Sure electricity goes through water quite fast but the charge or bond angle change is about 1mm per second. I am trying to take what I learn from this in regards to distributive capacitance on a transmission line and apply it to Meyer circuit since I keep seeing and hearing similar terms.

Glad to see this forum go back to the CE circuit too.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on October 23, 2007, 11:57:38 PM

(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)

rgds.

Man on a wire ???

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 24, 2007, 12:17:54 AM
Hi fritz!

Where White LED, Green LED lower voltage drop?

When you light 150 White LED like Stifler I shake your hand.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 12:20:33 AM

The self resonant frequency of an AM ferrite antenna is around 10MHz.

Hi Fritz,  have you measured that to be around 10MHz or you judged?  If you only judged, I would say you are probably correct if you remove the ferrite rod from the coil and  refer to the self-resonant frequency of the now air core coil, right?.

Because the high permeability of the ferrite core would still dominate the inductance of the coil at 10MHz (even though the permeability certainly gets reduced with increasing frequency) so the presence of the core would not let such a high self resonant frequency.  Do you agree?
My understanding is an AM ferrite antenna coil has approximatly  600-700uH of self inductance around 0.5-1MHz. Suppose it still has about 70uH inductance left at 10MHz, right?  This 70uH needs  about 1.5pF (distributed and parasitic capacitance) to resonate at 10MHz, right?  And the AM coil on the ferrite rod surely has higher than 1.5pF distributed cap due to the many turns of wire, this surely has to lower the self resonance frequency of the ferrite antenna well below 10MHz.

I measured (my) coil with LCR meter at 1kHz -  has about 400uH - but it
has less winding than the "original".

To measure the self resonance frequency - I operated the primary coil (9 turns)
with my siggen from 1-20MHz.
I connected the tip of my osc probe to one end of the AM coil. (....)
There are regularly resonances with 120% nominal amplitude every 1.5Mhz (est.)
and a 300% resonance overshoot around 10MHz.

I agree with your estimates for the values at 10 Mhz - to measure this exactly - I
have to repair my other LC meter which is capable of measuring even with 10MHz
frequency ...

By moving the ferrite coil in and out at resonance frequency - shows a variation of
amplitude at the AM coil with a factor of lets say 5. On doing that - you can additional
watch the capacitiv coupling between both coils:
Very nice:
Hold one end of the AM coil (yes this side gets grounded by your finger than) - and move
the ferrite core in and out. You see precisely that the dominant coupling changes
at some point from capacitiv (ferrite out) to inductive - ferrite enters part where both
coils are on top of each other. Nice phase change, looks very good.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 12:31:36 AM

(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)

rgds.

Man on a wire ???

This man is wearing feather-alike clothes, the wire is not that with
the real high voltage (look at the insulators).
I wont do that naked ;-)))
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on October 24, 2007, 12:32:12 AM

I measured (my) coil with LCR meter at 1kHz -  has about 400uH - but it
has less winding than the "original".

To measure the self resonance frequency - I operated the primary coil (9 turns)
with my siggen from 1-20MHz.
I connected the tip of my osc probe to one end of the AM coil. (....)
There are regularly resonances with 120% nominal amplitude every 1.5Mhz (est.)
and a 300% resonance overshoot around 10MHz.

I agree with your estimates for the values at 10 Mhz - to measure this exactly - I
have to repair my other LC meter which is capable of measuring even with 10MHz
frequency ...

Hi Fritz,  ok, thanks for your answer, I understand and agree most but please consider the oscilloscope probe has got a 13-15pF loading capacitance in parallel with its 10MegaOhm input resistance and that self capacitance significantly detunes the ferrite rod coil, right?  The best way to measure the self  resonance frequency would be to use a Grid Dip Meter (GDO for short) you surely know this calibrated LC oscillator that shows energy transfer to a passive tank circuit when it is near or at the resonant frequency of the passive tank.

Thanks, Gyula
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on October 24, 2007, 12:36:45 AM
Could someone teach me about charge/discharge speed of a capacitor?

Hi,

Here is an explanation on your question:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capchg.html    or see this:

http://www.tpub.com/neets/book2/3d.htm

Gyula
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 01:56:22 AM

I measured (my) coil with LCR meter at 1kHz -  has about 400uH - but it
has less winding than the "original".

To measure the self resonance frequency - I operated the primary coil (9 turns)
with my siggen from 1-20MHz.
I connected the tip of my osc probe to one end of the AM coil. (....)
There are regularly resonances with 120% nominal amplitude every 1.5Mhz (est.)
and a 300% resonance overshoot around 10MHz.

I agree with your estimates for the values at 10 Mhz - to measure this exactly - I
have to repair my other LC meter which is capable of measuring even with 10MHz
frequency ...

Hi Fritz,  ok, thanks for your answer, I understand and agree most but please consider the oscilloscope probe has got a 13-15pF loading capacitance in parallel with its 10MegaOhm input resistance and that self capacitance significantly detunes the ferrite rod coil, right?  The best way to measure the self  resonance frequency would be to use a Grid Dip Meter (GDO for short) you surely know this calibrated LC oscillator that shows energy transfer to a passive tank circuit when it is near or at the resonant frequency of the passive tank.

Thanks, Gyula

mmmh, I didn?t connect the scope ground lead -
checked that, if I remove the tip slightly - is still in resonance.
I could measure it with my analyzer, well, know GDOs, but don?t
have one.
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 02:10:26 AM
Circuit #7 Photo:

I would be highly interested what happens if there is only
a single ground wire going to the al shield and to the circuit.
Right now there are 2 grounds - and if you keep in mind that
we have 18 MHz - these 2 grounds have not the same potential.

....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 24, 2007, 02:52:06 AM

(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)

rgds.

Man on a wire ???

This man is wearing feather-alike clothes, the wire is not that with
the real high voltage (look at the insulators).
I wont do that naked ;-)))
rgds.

Feather-like clothes lower the human body's capacitance?  This thread is really bringing out the (bird) brains, I guess.  Maybe Dr. Stiffler is wearing special feather-unlike-clothes?  I've heard some non-scientific arguments in my day, but this one is close to taking the cake!

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 02:56:09 AM

@ Fritz - Hey in one of the pictures with the crowbar (When I expand it to full size) where you are holding the LEDS, I noticed that the primary is not connected at either end but the signal is going through the secondary to the LEDS in your fingers. How is that a replication of the Stiffler circuit since Stiffler has an open end on one coil? Are you just trying to show that you can hold an LED and get it to light by touching the right power source and your body being a good impedance match? You mentioned the importance of impedance matching - Just curious.

Also, that ebay site sells variable capacitors  - do you think that would be helpful in tuning? Stiffler used a silver dipped mica cap. Do caps have reactance speeds?

The reason I ask is in the Meyer circuit, US patent 4798661, Meyer describes what looks like an air plate capacitor submerged in distilled water. Now why would someone go though the hassle of creating that if a simple off the shelf capacitor will work? Could someone teach me about charge/discharge speed of a capacitor?

Sure electricity goes through water quite fast but the charge or bond angle change is about 1mm per second. I am trying to take what I learn from this in regards to distributive capacitance on a transmission line and apply it to Meyer circuit since I keep seeing and hearing similar terms.

Glad to see this forum go back to the CE circuit too.

Well - if you look at the name of the picture "coil as conductor" -
this is NO stiffler replica NOR impedance matching.
It?s just a picture with the leds, the ground, ambient ground from my finger.
(and the coil as connection); quite happy that somebody caught me ;-)
I don?t have the needed material so far (toy radio am coil) as well as I
don?t have the same type of breadboard/plate shield assembly.

I expect that the original circuit catches the energy in the same way I
do it here - with the difference that the coil + parasitary capacitors form
a parallel LC circuit wich oscillates with 18MHz. This is the reason why
the energy can be transfered using the parasitary capacitors - in my case
I have 50 Hz - no way to do it "one wire". Additional the impedance is matched
which gives this high output.

As long as the stuff is build on this breadboard - its quite difficult to judge,
where you have to put in the variable capacitor. Some of this stuff is forming
an LC circuit - if you put the cap in parallel to that you can of course change
the resonant frequency.

Almost any adjustable cap is designed for rf operation (at least for the frequencies
used here). There are ceramic and foil based trimmers  with up to 50pf maximum
capacity.

The resonance frequency is calculated by f = 1/(2*pi*root(L*C))
f in Hz, L in Henry and C in Farad.
In case you put an extra C in parallel Cnew = C+Cadded

I think that Meyer uses this C submerged in water to get somehow
a C with dielectric behaviour as a C in water. This C is used in a setup
where water is treated by use of electrodes - another capacitor of course.
If one C changes its properties (water temperature or whatever) the other
C will experience the same effect... does this make some sense to you ?
If you would need an adjustable C which should be tuned in a controlling
loop - this would be the easiest sollution - instead of measuring something
and tune a capacitor with motor or whatever.

Another idea is - that Meyer was so used to water caps as Keely to resonators;-)))
Why taking a traditional cap if there is so much water around ?

The last idea - and maybe thats the reason - that tuneable caps are for rf and not
for high energy pulsed designs.

rgds.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 24, 2007, 03:08:10 AM
Duh, I'm sorry I was unintentionally feeding the troll here, while not being aware that doc stiffler had expanded his experiment page and added detailed photos and more information.

I appologize to the rest of the readers of this thread if they found my remarks about lack of clarity inappropriate, I should've checked doc stiffler's page first. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 03:15:26 AM

(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)

rgds.

Man on a wire ???

This man is wearing feather-alike clothes, the wire is not that with
the real high voltage (look at the insulators).
I wont do that naked ;-)))
rgds.

Feather-like clothes lower the human body's capacitance?  This thread is really bringing out the (bird) brains, I guess.  Maybe Dr. Stiffler is wearing special feather-unlike-clothes?  I've heard some non-scientific arguments in my day, but this one is close to taking the cake!

Linda

If you have a human in an overall with lets say 15 layers of isolator-conductive shield-isolator..
then this lowers or even zeroes (if faraday cage alike) the amount of polarization current which effects the human being (his skin)
in a "human capacitor" setup.

I expect that the reduced size of skin in combination with feathers reduces the polarization
current of bird skin .....

Do I really get the cake ?? very hungry.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 24, 2007, 06:04:38 AM
Yes...chocolate or angel food?  Of course, either one you choose will be covered with bird-feathers!

Linda

Seriously...I find this thread fascinating, but only because of Dr. Stiffler's experiments which I do not pretend to understand.  Too many variables and unknowns and the setup keeps changing.  It is certainly interesting but it's too helter-skelter and uncontrolled for me to start really learning anything very solid yet.  I await the settling down of this batch of experiments to a basis that demonstrates a clear principal.  If that has happened already, my bird-brain must have missed it!

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 08:50:58 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 24, 2007, 12:16:46 PM
I figured it out! I figured it out! Nener nener nener! and two of Stifflers own scope shots prove it! Ha! Take that you dogs!

Email me Fritz, you were the closest of all of them. Keep it to yourself, feed these "bird brains" nothing. If you can't keep it to yourself, don't email me.

Ha! You lose trolls!

@Freenrg4me

I sincerely hope you are joking.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on October 24, 2007, 12:55:25 PM
My web pages has thoughts about Tesla's transmitter.
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07.html)
I try understand this (Stiffler) circuit.
Near his places is 50 kW AM station.
In basic (from his pages), this circuit is dipole, and LED's are on one side of that dipole (two diode with its capacity is rectifier of this left/right dipole flow).
When some Tesla's style transmitter transform energy, it has two output frequency. Second can be very high, and depend about k (coupling coefficient). It is important, because it is not well know phenomena.

If here is some 'free energy', it's source could be human or natural phenomena. But it is only HF receiver.
Ground is important with ionosphere, and it is path for all that energy.
Tesla was talking about radiant part in his transmitter, and ground current. His device is optimize for 90% of ground current. Places for antenna is irrelevant (horizontal or vertical). It is just capacity.
Basic Tesla's receiver are two grounding plates (on some distance) with mechanical rotating rectifier. Here is self induction with high Q, which make possible build rectifier with diode.

I have some new equation for mathematical understanding Tesla's work.

Good luck for seeking on 'free energy'.
Maybe replacement for Tesla's mechanical rotation receiver switch?
All that thundering around Earth, has ground currents, and who knows, maybe here is some natural source, but that 50 kW AM is my concern.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 03:37:17 PM
@ Branko

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 03:40:26 PM
@ AhuraMazda What? You didn't want it figured out? It's hardly the kind of thing I would joke about. It was patented back in the early 90's
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 06:33:45 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 24, 2007, 06:50:23 PM
@Elvis!
Thanks. That was very good deduction. If you have replicated Dr S's circuit, you can easily prove your finding by using a black and white film and holding it near your BAFE and see if the film got exposed. Of course you may have a giga counter in which case problem solved.

Long time ago, Dr Stiffler gave me the cold shoulder. He said he would not work with any one who did not have at least 50K worth of test gear!
I am still waiting for my cores and have bought a new scope just for the occasion!

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mmcgen.htm

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 24, 2007, 08:31:59 PM
Freenrg4me

I applaud your efforts! You have great ideas, and are a wonderful observer.

However we are dedicated to the peaceful dessemination of information that could lead us away from oil dependancy, which does not seem to resonante well with you nametag, which is in itself a bit selfish.

I really do hope you stick around and continue to help the cause, but please dont encurage others to stray from it through secracy, we have enough of that inherent in the system we live.

@ all

Could we please exercize a little restraint and focus on the issue at hand without such large damaging tangents? I think that 90 percent of us here strive for the same cause, so why do we fight? what happened to constructive criticism? what happened to taking comments with a grain of salt. Dont be so hypersensitive!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 08:35:09 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 08:48:35 PM
@ armagdn03

I think the "Issue" is being examined and I think it has been explained by my post regarding this circuit.

@ Doctor S. I noticed you have removed the "Cold Electricity" claim from your web site suddenly. Is that how you let people know that my explanation of the circuit is correct without that 50k in gear?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 24, 2007, 09:03:37 PM
Time this nonsense stop. For those that are really interested in my work I will answer questions as best I can to those really wanting to see what it is about.

I made a big mistake in taking someone into an inner circle where 'He' was privileged to see advance information before being given to the public. He abused that trust by informing me that 'He' and Fritz were working together? Fritz I don't know, and it makes no difference, you are one of the few that has posted anything close to engineering and looking at the circuits and offering input. Should you be a friend of 'He', maybe you should rethink that.

Ground rules for me staying in the forum and trying to explain and help in replication.

1) I can not waste time if you do not intend to 'Duplicate'. I have no room for talking theory. Work with the electronics as I am presenting or we have nothing to talk about. Once replication is accomplished we can move to theory.

2) Don' think you are going to jump right into what you all seem to call "Free Energy" I have already stated all over the internet I do not believe in such things.

3) Start your work with the single coil, one LED and a neon, driven by a signal generator as shown on my web site. When you can indeed get this basic circuit working we have very much a common ground to move forward from.

4) I will not answer anyone by private email, would have except for 'He'.

5) As soon as the "CRAP" starts up from whoever I'm out of here and you all can go back to your whatever.

SO LETS BEGIN?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 24, 2007, 09:06:10 PM
@Freenrg4mee

Perhaps this could be discussed in another thread, just so not to clutter things up?

Also, very interesting ideas about the source of the power in this circuit. I was under the impression though that to get the kind of NMR you are speaking of, it took many Teslas of magnetism to bias the atoms. This is why nothing ferrous can be in the vicinity of an MRI machine, or it will become a lethal projectile sucked into the center. Do you think that this can be overcome somehow? Is he doing it at 1 volt somehow?
Also if this is the case, do you think this circuit still uses capacitive coupling to send this power down a single wire?
I?m just trying to paint a full picture here, but unfortunately Lora is right, this experiment has become very complicated in that many new variables are introduced / observed. This should be very simple! But allas I only have several thousand worth of measuring equipment, Ã¯ÂÅ’ I guess im not in the same league as the big boys.

Wonder how science made it through the centuries without ten thousand dollar multi trace digital capture scopes and signal analyzers? Miracle of chance if you ask me.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 24, 2007, 09:09:49 PM
Wonderful!

I have a replication, I would like to throw on the table, but am going to be out of town for a bit.

LET THE REPLICATIONS BEGIN!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Joh70 on October 24, 2007, 09:17:29 PM
@Freenrg4me: sounds interesting and maybe plausible. Do you say, this circuit is a little nuclear power station? This is a free energy and (not from the sun in any kind). Unfortunately it would polute environment and we already have it everywhere in the world whith its disadvantages.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 24, 2007, 09:22:22 PM
One important thing, I can only check a few times a day and most likely will respond in the majority at night CDT.

So please be patient, I have a vested interest in a group REALLY working and 'Duplicating' this.

Oh! stop with the Radio Station close to the Lab concern. Gentleman I have been a Ham radio operator from the 70's and yes I had to learn code, WA7RTQ I hold a General Class License. I held a Radio Telephone 1st Class License until the FCC  changed it to a General Class at which time they grandfathered me to a Life Time General Class License.

I was a Broadcast Engineer for many years, TV, AM, FM Stereo and Common Carrier, I was involved with the reception of the Moon Walk video and microwave communications during the Vietnam war, I know how to be sure what I am doing is not from a Radio Station, Please lets not go there and waste time.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tak22 on October 24, 2007, 09:43:25 PM
@Rstiffler

Thank you for participating here. I have cores on the way and will replicate your basic circuit.

As for the 'noise' in this forum it's about as good as it's going to get considering the type of forum it is, and you can quickly learn to tune/filter it out. You've got everyones attention here so I hope you will continue to participate, and I second the suggestion that you start your own replication thread.

Serious replication attempts will draw in the serious people from this group.

tak
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 24, 2007, 10:36:52 PM
For those that are or have purchased coils, I have heard that some are receiving them in different configurations and some with center taps.

I have included a couple of pictures that show what they should look like. The coil does not have a center tap and there is what I feel is a stiffener on one side that has a red paint dot on it. I checked this bar and it has a measurable resistance, although high. The coils do not display any residual magnetism, they are not biased. If you receive a different coil, all may not be lost. Compare the L of the coil with what I specify. If it has a center tap, check from the center to either end. It could be that the coil is larger or smaller. Should you have a coil question post it and we will see if we can make it work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 24, 2007, 10:51:12 PM
@Freenrg4me,
I can see you have a lot of energy and imagination! Please can you focus on replicating the circuit? I am sure we can all learn from Dr S.

I dare say you are beginning to sound a bit like Bruce Per...
I have been a member of overunity for a long time and have seen people with talent to genuinely contribute being driven away by pointless chatter. I ( as well as many others ) am very happy that Ron has decided to actively help and this is a wonderful opportunity for all of us to investigate something.

This thread is "Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler". If you choose you can start a thread of your own. I suggest "self defeating pointless banter from Freenrg4me"!

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IronHead on October 24, 2007, 10:53:36 PM
I second that motion !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 24, 2007, 11:08:52 PM
@Ron
Some of what we know is second hand knowledge. Please confirm, in your opinion does the Barium element play a part in this and if it does, is there a way of characterizing the core. I have boxes full of old and new cores of all shapes and sizes but none like the specified samples. I am expecting the ones suggested any day now.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 24, 2007, 11:59:35 PM
@AhuraMazda

Two things are no longer of significance until shown otherwise.

1) Effect caused by Ba content in the cores. This was built upon from another group where one of my circuits was shown. Because of frequencies an how the circuit responded it was a viable idea, for awhile. I have not run spectral analysis on any of the cores, I am taking  what was told me by the supplier that the cores were BaFe among other things.

2) I have posted on my web site and have stated I am not sure this has anythis to do with so called 'Cold Electricity'. If I knew how to identify it for sure I might still lean in that direction because of how the current reacts. There are many that state they know what CE is, selling books and CD's, but I have never seen a present day circuit.

As it stands I do have some ideas and will talk about them, but as I have said, this comes after some duplication. Knowing what it is does not help in creating it.

Short answer, may not be Ba and may not be CE, by whatever guideline is used for the identification.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 25, 2007, 02:41:45 AM
Quote
I exposed her private detective buddy in another thread. It took me two days to get him so unglued he told me enough to to determine exactly who he is, where he lives and his phone number. It's posted.

@Freenrg4me:

My company name is all over the internet so wow, it was real hard for you to find it, great researching buddy. With research like this it's a wonder you can find your ass to clean it.  I thought you said like 3 times that "this is my last post on this forum"  Why don't you do all of us a favor and stick to your word.

Unglued? You don't know me pal....ha ha.  Take a hike.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 25, 2007, 02:42:19 AM
@Freenrg4me,

please shut up in this thread until you have built the circuit from Ron.
Otherwise I will put you on read only.

It is not useful to speculate where the energy comes from
and play your games over here ,if you did not
built it yourself.
Just build it and measure it and post your results.

Many thanks for understanding.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 25, 2007, 03:41:14 AM
Quote
God I'm going to miss this place
Quote
[
quote]Now I must find that unsubscribe button. Hey Harmann, delete my account. I though with it
Quote
It's been fun Nazis!
Quote
Final thought
Quote
That's my answer and my final rant
Quote
C-ya
Quote
I am out of here - good luck.

All above quotes from Freenrg4me.  Why isn't he leaving already then?  He should so we can go back to O.U. research without the stupid remarks and threats of his leaving.  Leave already.  Don't say it...do it.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 04:10:48 AM
Stephan,

I have no interest in building something radioactive now that I figured out how it works. I stayed around to clear that up for some of the less intelligent people that may try to replicate.

However, after reading Bills last few posts, I must ask myself the question why did he suddenly pop in here and why would I care if he built something that can harm him. :-)

Bill, if you promise to build all 60 of them and sleep with them, I will ship them to you for free. :-)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 25, 2007, 04:18:03 AM
Stephan,

I have no interest in building something radioactive now that I figured out how it works. I stayed around to clear that up for some of the less intelligent people that may try to replicate.

However, after reading Bills last few posts, I must ask myself the question why did he suddenly pop in here and why would I care if he built something that can harm him. :-)

Bill, if you promise to build all 60 of them and sleep with them, I will ship them to you for free. :-)

Otherwise how would every AM radio otherwise function ?
Please stop hammering onto Dr. Stiffler and start building
or sell me a few cores.
Otherwise, please shut up over here.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 25, 2007, 04:35:00 AM
Why don't we just put it to a vote:

All of you who are for banning the "radioactive man" and his paranoid, delusional and trolling comments from this thread (or heck, from this site altogether) say "AYE".

Then the rest of us who are honestly interested in replicating doc stiffler's experiment can continue to do so without being sidetracked.

Here's my AYE !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 05:22:56 AM

Otherwise how would every AM radio otherwise function ?
Please stop hammering onto Dr. Stiffler and start building
or sell me a few cores.
Otherwise, please shut up over here.

Dear Stephan,

I guess you didn't know that AM radio does not operate at 21MHZ. They operate in the KHZ range. I suppose you also didn't know that the coil with those power levels at 21MHZ is far more power than AM band since we need to count the pulses and then add up all that energy.

Maybe you can buy a crystal diode radio and learn about coils, diode, ground, antenna and earphone too!

Maybe you can try placing an aluminum sheet under it so now you have two ground to see if that doubles the frequency like Fritz says?

Thank you for asking the question, I hope that helps you out.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 06:02:21 AM
@ mrramos

The cores were like 2 bucks each and they come with the Litz coil on them. You might want to wait a few days to see if I get mine. Shipping was about another 5 - 10 bucks.

How will you measure the alpha and beta output?

The fact is I kept that patent for about 8 years now because I planned to build it. It is simple and a well known technology. The difference between me and most people here is I also have nuclear power training from the military. Another difference is that I KNOW what I am playing with but it would be immoral and a fraud to tell someone that something does not emit radiation when it is well known that if resonated as the scope shots clearly showed, it will will be.

I am not hammering on anyone or anything for that matter, it is just that kids and inexperienced people come here, learn tricks and then try them. They should be fully informed, not disinformed, they should have training on things like shielding and half life, they should work in a place that is away from children or others, the area should be well marked with the proper signs, proper clothing/gloves should be worn, the ability to measure and detect radiation levels, eye protection and that list just keeps going.

Ferro resonant transformer - Larger aircraft use a 400hz frequency for ground power so that the core mass of the components on board can be smaller/lighter. Notice the patent shows 400hz output?

I'm both a helicopter and fixed wing pilot and learned about it from a mechanic a long time ago. I have spotted an article on the web on converting ground power to OU a long time ago, don't remember where and it was a MG set with a transformer as I recall.

As far as creating OU? Hell yea, it is no secret that this works. But then there are lots of ways to create OU that are totally safe and fun. I just ran into another one yesterday that is so simple that someone that does not even know how a radio works could build it and understand it. Good for the kids to play with, simple and a real brain teaser.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 25, 2007, 06:44:18 AM
help what?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 07:09:17 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 07:14:02 AM
@ armagdn03 Wow, Just a few hours ago, you stated that you had replicated and wish you could just throw that up on table and show us but had to leave town for a few days.

I could understand why you might think about leaving town, it's good to away when you can.

But hey, as long as you are here, throw that bad boy up on the table now! I want to see that replication and then, mramos won't have to buy any of those special cores, a signal generator and about 20 of the LEDS.

So that would help and I hope that answers your help what question. Whip it out.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 25, 2007, 08:23:40 AM
@Freenrg4me
Even if radioactivity is involved in this, that would not deter me. I would learn how to handle that. I am sure lots of other people are not put off either. I remember a guy who left the hydroxy group when he discovered hydrogen can explode! As for patenting a free energy device, look at the history, You can not sell it. I can remind you of Stanly Meyer.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 08:32:55 AM
Wonderful!

I have a replication, I would like to throw on the table, but am going to be out of town for a bit.

LET THE REPLICATIONS BEGIN!

Still waiting for that replication.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on October 25, 2007, 08:49:54 AM
I see on net ( http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1589323258906115584 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1589323258906115584) ) some working replica of Steven Mark device. It has lamp (around 100 W I think) and it was on full light. Input was around 40 V, and instrument (analog) think that too. Amperes was less than 1 A (digital instrument say that). First mistake was measuring high frequency with digital instrument, not build for high frequency. Its numbers are not real. How I know? Signal generator say that input is around 40 V and 3 A. It is more than 100 W and it is easy to light up that bulb. But how lamp light on, with 40 V and it is for 220V (or 110V, I write from my memory now)? Here is self induction HF transformer. If some coil (inductive) has frequency input on coil, voltage can go up (U=2PIf*L/R). Tesla use third coil for increase voltage, and input was 'frequency driver'. In equation R is not same like DC. It need HF equations for R (Medhurst). If instrument measure 10 ohm, it could be 100 ohm. I have some good equation on my web (my own investigation with Tesla's transformer).

If this device work, it need understanding. I try understand. I know, great electric power is on ionosphere-earth, and great power is inside Earth. We are between this two energy source.
Maybe this device is capture some 'cosmic energy' (Tesla talk about that). But it need more than LED's, and if it light up bulb, it must be out of generator on input, because generator can do that alone. Tesla talk about capturing energy from cosmic ray (it work day and night). And this device is maybe right direction on Tesla's forget science.

But, please try understand what device is. We don't want energy source, without understanding. Great energy can do explosion. Tesla try open path to ionosphere in 1900. Is he know that 1800A of great voltage will come down? Like Tunguska explosion where some asteroid open that electric path and discharge Earth capacity (my thoughts about that explosion). Maybe nature is rescue his head. If he knew that, maybe he is try use that electric source.

Don't ignore my point, because maybe you work on new energy source... What will you do if LED's become atomic bomb? I think it will not, but understanding is important...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 08:59:56 AM
@Freenrg4me
Even if radioactivity is involved in this, that would not deter me. I would learn how to handle that. I am sure lots of other people are not put off either. I remember a guy who left the hydroxy group when he discovered hydrogen can explode! As for patenting a free energy device, look at the history, You can not sell it. I can remind you of Stanly Meyer.

Well, here is the problem we have.
1. Stiffler and Hartman have denied radioactivity.
2. Most people do not have training in this area.
3. Underage people can learn how to do that here. Can they be held responsible for their actions? Nope, but Stiffler, Harman and the cabal can.

I think Madam Currie and Floyd Sweet both learned safe nuclear handling techniques on the job through trial and error. They knew what not to do just before they both died.

I applaud your enthusiasm though. It is a well known fact that you can just go to your nearest nuclear power plant after dark and tell the guard at the gate you "will not be deterred." They usually keep a big box of weapons grade U236 there in 1 kilo chucks to hand out as samples to the tourists.

Try and pick one out the glows the greenest, that means it is the "freshest" just picked sample. Never mix the good fruit with the bad so to speak.

Anyway, wrap your coil around that and trust me, (remember only 9 turns with a half turn on each end) you are going to be amazed! So be sure to take lots of friends with you. Peer pressure will break your average weak knee man in a minute.

They give the pretty girls plutonium, it just isn't fair is it? I guess the girls are more careful not to drop plutonium. I wouldn't want to imply that the guards are sexist. But remember to look that guard in the eye and be firm when you tell him "I will not be deterred." Salesmanship baby, it's everything in this biz right?

"As for patenting a free energy device, look at the history, " Yeah, like I said, you just have to ask and be firm. Let me know how that works out O.K.? The group is behind you on this one all the way.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 09:44:55 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: b0rg13 on October 25, 2007, 11:03:54 AM
@Freenrg4me, I think youve done a fantastic job of convincing all of us that your a nut-job,maybe you can piss off now ?. ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 25, 2007, 11:37:46 AM
@Freenrg4me
Either I need lead underpants for this project or you need a doctor!

I still think you can contribute positively to this thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 25, 2007, 11:50:11 AM
@Freenrg4me,
it is enough now.

This is the last warning.
Built the thing and then come back with your results.....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 25, 2007, 12:51:23 PM
Dear All,

I discovered this platform and thought:
oh, what a nice place to share information
and to get/give advice on certain issues.

Well I didn?t realize that I enter a quite
complex global role game with inventors,
gurus, priests, followers, replicators, thinkers
and whatever.

I?m up to start a new thing - will post it here -
and if somebody is interested - we can do
something.

I?m not interested in replicating such setups -
if I look at the weird stuff I have at home - we can
play this game forever - no interest.

I thought the major task of free energy is the
fight against entropy.

Well, if I look at this thread and how we communicate -
thats not simply entropy - thats entropy to the power of
something ...

regards,

Fritz
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on October 25, 2007, 12:58:47 PM
Barium is like tungsten (electric interesting elements). Great energy from Sun in form of 'neutrino' going through us (see Wikipedia). Neutrino can transform neutron/proton system (and anti-proton too). If someone can capture that neutrino energy, and transform in useful form (electricity), it will be new energy source. Greatest than nuclear.

If some new source of energy is here, we need understanding, before releasing energy. Stay on low energy, and do experiments. And don't do it alone. Share it. It could be good protection for some mistake.

When voltage go high, it can make X-rays (electron in vacuum). If that 2 Vpp is make 'neon' light to fire up (high voltage generation), what we will have with high voltage on input?

I will advise caution with barium and tungsten experiment.

All water or acid soluble barium compounds are extremely poisonous. (from Wikipedia). Lot of Ba isotope are stable, but Ba133 is 10 years radioactive. Is that BaFe from China clear of 133? Some ferite work, some not. Why? Think about that...

High electron acceleration can release atomic energy.

It is OK with low voltage. But understanding is important, if we go up with energy (and voltage too).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on October 25, 2007, 01:35:32 PM
Before understanding as the device works understanding as make it work to the best, according to the Stiffler indications is necessary.
Has Stiffler thought it would mount the device on a printed circuit or "in air" ? To verify if the hrdware used by him is binding or they can there be an alternative constructive solutions.
I would like to ask also a question to Stiffler:
the producer and the code of the components, especially coils and block of ferrite, so that it can do some tests.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 25, 2007, 03:31:35 PM
Before understanding as the device works understanding as make it work to the best, according to the Stiffler indications is necessary.
Has Stiffler thought it would mount the device on a printed circuit or "in air" ? To verify if the hrdware used by him is binding or they can there be an alternative constructive solutions.
I would like to ask also a question to Stiffler:
the producer and the code of the components, especially coils and block of ferrite, so that it can do some tests.

I have listed a complete parts list on my web site.

The antenna loop sticks were ordered from ebay and all I can supply you is the link under which they were ordered;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPT.dll?ViewItem&item=150076605464 They were \$1.45US at the time.

These coils were at the time ordered for a very mundane project not connected to this one.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 25, 2007, 04:11:34 PM
DR. Stifler

By your estimate, how many turns would you say the primary has on AM antennae?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 25, 2007, 04:22:35 PM
Dr. Stiffler just updated his website with interesting new
measurements.
Have a look:

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 25, 2007, 04:51:35 PM
@RStiffler

Have you ever tried your circuit out of your lab, may be somewhere a few miles away?
I for one am looking for overunity but I don't want fall over myself.
With the two transmitters in the vicinity of your lab some related weird phenomena may be at play.
Although in your videos you shielded the circuit and disproved RF pick up, still there is an area of doubt
which should be removed.

Best Regards
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 25, 2007, 05:12:00 PM
DR. Stifler

By your estimate, how many turns would you say the primary has on AM antennae?

I have addressed that the best possible on my site. The Primary is hand wound by the user and is 9 turns. The number of turns in the secondary is unknown, although as I have stated when tested it appears to be a 1:1.7 step up ratio.

I also list the Z (impedance) of each winding, off and on the core. You can use the following formula to look at it however you wish for turns ratio.

Tr -> turns ratio
Ns->#turns secondary - Np->#turns primary
Vs ->voltage secondary - Vp-> voltage primary
Ip->current primary - Is->current secondary

Tr = Na/Np  ...... Tr = Vs/Vp  ...... Tr = Ip/Is

Impedance ratio

Tr = sqrt(Zs/Zp) where Zs and Zp are respective impedances of of secondary and primary.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 25, 2007, 05:19:48 PM
@RStiffler

Have you ever tried your circuit out of your lab, may be somewhere a few miles away?
I for one am looking for overunity but I don't want fall over myself.
With the two transmitters in the vicinity of your lab some related weird phenomena may be at play.
Although in your videos you shielded the circuit and disproved RF pick up, still there is an area of doubt
which should be removed.

Best Regards

I understand your concerns, yet this is outside of the guidelines I established for participation in this forum.

If you can not accept my ability to know if this is or is not a factor, I do not see how you could not question every aspect of this work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 25, 2007, 06:19:02 PM
Thank you for pointing that out, I must have missed it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on October 25, 2007, 06:39:17 PM
Unfortunately the link on ebay which you have sent me is not active:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPT.dll?ViewItem&item=150076605464 They were \$1.45US at the time.

The information on your web site are really complete and is possible to replay your experiments.
The biggest problem, for me, is to obtain the loop sticks aerial. I think that the best thing is to know the diameter of the thread and then the number of coils, trying the building.
I Know that reduce the possibility of success, but I do not know thing other do.
Is it possible to use a red LED to replace the blu LED ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 25, 2007, 07:46:14 PM
Unfortunately the link on ebay which you have sent me is not active:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPT.dll?ViewItem&item=150076605464 They were \$1.45US at the time.

The information on your web site are really complete and is possible to replay your experiments.
The biggest problem, for me, is to obtain the loop sticks aerial. I think that the best thing is to know the diameter of the thread and then the number of coils, trying the building.
I Know that reduce the possibility of success, but I do not know thing other do.
Is it possible to use a red LED to replace the blu LED ?

As far as cores all I can do is direct you to earlier in the thread where another eBay address is posted. I have no idea what the seller is selling, best you find that link and contact him. There are picture of the cores I use in this thread, use them when you talk to the seller to insure what you are getting.

Early in the research I tried other cores, torus, transformer E sections and some pot cores. I did not get them to work. That does not say you may not, but I can not assist on this.

Other LEDS yes, I like White because they produce a useful light output, where as the Red, Blue and Green would be in my mind novelty usage. Remember the the forward drops on the LEDS may be quit different and of all of them you will get quick success from the Red's, yet it may be false success as Red LEDS can show display from static electricity or from 60Hz induction.

Good Luck...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: rburley on October 25, 2007, 09:31:50 PM
Hi
An idea to find out the power out of the circuit.
Remove the LED's and replace with a resistor.
Run the circuit and read the temperature of the resistor.
Then remove the resistor place it on a DC power supply and get the resistor to the same temperature as it was in the circuit.
The DC power supply will give you the DC current and voltage, so you have the DC power needed to get the resistor to the same temperature as when it was in the circuit.

You can check the DC current flow to the oscillator with and without the circuit connected, and so you can find out the power in to power out.

Just an idea.
All the best Roger
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on October 25, 2007, 11:05:41 PM
In e-bay i have found the "FERRITELOOP STIK ANTENNA" (thi is the keyword in google to find it), is difficult for me to be able to make it to me send, I will now look for something of equal in Italy.
Thank Stiffler for the help!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IronHead on October 26, 2007, 12:54:09 AM
Search for  "Ferrite Loopstick Antenna"

Here is the dealers store on ebay
http://stores.ebay.com/Hard-to-find-Electronic-Parts

Here is a 680uh

Here is a 470uh
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 26, 2007, 11:54:57 PM
I just made a few tests with this principle circuit
You just need a ferrite choke , a signal generator and 3 blue or
white LEDs and a big metal mesh.

You can use the 3 LEDs to build the Avramenko plug,so you don?t need
the 2 x 1N4148 diodes.

This has the advantage, that the current through the 2 Avramenko rectifier diodes
also puts out light.

The whole thing is a resonance effect and probably a parasitric capacitive coupling to
the signal generator ground.

But with the right ferrite choke you can enhance the effect.
I have recorded a video and will try to upload it now here or
It is pretty long, so I guess I better put it to youtube.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 12:29:58 AM
The video was a Quicktime MOV with AVC codecs
from my new Aiptek AHD-200 camera with 720x480 30 frames/sec

a 100 MB and 10 minutes limit.
I am also trying to convert it to a smaller AVI video and
put it onto overunity.com directly.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 27, 2007, 12:37:20 AM
I just made a few tests with this principle circuit
You just need a ferrite choke , a signal generator and 3 blue or
white LEDs and a big metal mesh.

You can use the 3 LEDs to build the Avramenko plug,so you don?t need
the 2 x 1N4148 diodes.

This has the advantage, that the current through the 2 Avramenko rectifier diodes
also puts out light.

The whole thing is a resonance effect and probably a parasitric capacitive coupling to
the signal generator ground.

But with the right ferrite choke you can enhance the effect.
I have recorded a video and will try to upload it now here or
It is pretty long, so I guess I better put it to youtube.

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan;

So if you are using only LEDS are they all polarized in the same direction? Or is it a standard 'Plug' design and you have reversed one LED and it does not light? Don't the rectifiers on the plug take on the form of a full wave rectifier?

Waiting for the video.. Glad to see someone working on it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on October 27, 2007, 12:38:43 AM
I have bought, through ebay, the "ferriteloop stik aerial" and hope to be able to receive them in a short time.  I have rediscovered the work done by JLN in 1999 (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm ), is very like as Stiffler experiment and while I wait for the aerials, I will retry the JLN experience.
tefan, also you have made the JLN experiments ? If yes, can give me some advices ? Have the idea that there are many elements in council with the Stiffler experiment, elements which are not evaluated carefully of 1999.
The bigger difference between the two experiments is the frequency used for the oscillator, JLN uses 10 KHz, Stiffler, if I do not mistake, uses frequencies about 5-10 MHz.
How for almost all the JLN experiments, when the experiment giving the first interesting results, JLN cut off him,  having further details has not been so possible.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 01:19:03 AM
My small ferrite transformer is called:
EFD 30/15/9

It has as core material N27 ferrite.
The coil I am using from it has 650 milliOhm DC resistance.
This ferrite transfomer has several coils on it,
but I am just using this one, as this gave the best light output.
So it is basically a ferrite choke.
I don?t use a transformer with 2 coils as Dr. Stiffler did.
You will see it all on the video.

My function generator normally only goes to 200 Khz ,
but I used a setting between the knob raster, so there the frequency
was much higher and I could go up to about 3 Mhz.

So all one has to do to scale this effect up now is
to use a very sharp edges pulse generator with very fast rise and
fall time and using just one wire output to go the right big ferrite choke
and then in series with the ferrite choke going to a few LEDs arranged as an Avramenko plug and then to a big metal mesh
or metal screen hanging isolated in the air, so it can catch free electrons from the air.

You will see it all in the video.
I have now converted the video also to an about 37 MB AVI file with DIVX.com codec
and MP3 audio sound.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 01:57:46 AM

Stefan;

So if you are using only LEDS are they all polarized in the same direction? Or is it a standard 'Plug' design and you have reversed one LED and it does not light? Don't the rectifiers on the plug take on the form of a full wave rectifier?

Waiting for the video.. Glad to see someone working on it.

Yes,like the normal Avramenko plug configuration.

I am then using a wire at the one pin of the "output" LED to go to the mesh.

You will see it in the video, when I finally get it uploaded.

Google video did not seem to like my AVC codec from my camera,
so 170 MB upload was wasted. It can not convert it to FLASH.
Okay, now I upload it directly to overunity.com as the AVI.
Stay tuned.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 02:17:50 AM
Okay, here already 3 pictures of the test attached.

Now my FTP program to upload the video is also "choking.."...
Murphy?s law again... Grrr... :o
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 03:05:52 AM
My provider just has server problems, so the Control panel
Filemanager upload is also not working and also the FTP is not working.
I am now trying to upload the video to Google Video in the new AVI format,
which has DIVX codec and MP3 audio and is 37 MB big.

I hope this time it will work...

Well, I just tried this setup now with just one instead of the 3 Avramenko-plug setup-LEDs
but that did not work.
Also if I turn reverse the one LED.
Only if I use 2 LEDs in antiparallel (one conducting and the other nonconducting)
then it also works with just 2 LEDs.

Also with more than 3 LEDs it also works.
Just put several more LEDs in parallel with the output LED at the Avramenko plug.
Surely then the brightness of all LEDs goes down a bit.
But if you are at resonance, then it is not much, if you just add 2 more diodes= 5 diodes in total.

Have not yet tried yet to put them in series.

Also I don?t seem to have so high voltages as Dr. Stiffler,
as I don?t get a neon bulb to light up anywhere near or at my circuit..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IronHead on October 27, 2007, 03:15:37 AM
I can put it on my Spiralmatrix server Stefan . you could email it to me through gmail.
Message me if you want to do this.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 03:40:00 AM
Hi,

but when I try to view it it just comes up with:

This video is not available...
Can you see it already ?

Maybe it takes some time for them to convert it and put it
in their database ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IronHead on October 27, 2007, 03:43:06 AM
The video & sound are working
Thank you
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 27, 2007, 04:03:55 AM
Stefan:

Great video!

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 04:11:41 AM
The video & sound are working
Thank you

I can not see it yet myself,
but I uploaded the original AVI now also over here:

There you first have to paste in this 3 Number code into the form,

Hope this works out now for most of you.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xilusma on October 27, 2007, 04:18:10 AM
@Stefan,

Can't watch the video at you tube as of 27/10/2007 3.17 a.m.

???

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IronHead on October 27, 2007, 04:18:16 AM
@Stefan
Touch the wire that goes to the mesh,  to the  ferrite core .
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 04:25:02 AM
Here is my first n00b attempt in replication. Yes, I know I've done some things wrong but I was just too anxious to get some results... :)

I had to quickly build a signal generator so the cyan rectangle is the MAX038 driven ~10MHz sine signal generator (pathetic one as well used the spec. sheet circuit so it's pretty noisy as well)

Yellow rectangle is the Fig.01 circuit from doc. stiffler's webpage. My L1 is I hope around 2uH (grey cylinder thingy lower right corner of yellow rectangle). Since I do not have a precise LCR meter (Masterch DMM I have is pretty lousy and won't measure that low) I just picked something close enough, I'm sure if I had the right 2.2uH the LED would light up brighter.

My AM core is around 700uH taken from an old alarm clock with radio. I think you can use any kind of an old alarm clock with radio and butcher it up for the core, as long as the physical dimensions match.

Now, at first I did not have anything underneath (aluminium plate) but I noticed that it seems to be an integral part (most important?) of the circuit because after putting a small piece underneath and aligning it a bit, the LED lit up brighter. :o

Next step will be to put this on a real breadboard (I was lazy to do it originally since I already started the circuit on this tiny one). But hey, it works for what's it worth - just proves that you can make a terrible hack and still get something out of it. Thanks to doc. stiffler for making us use our heads... :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 04:34:30 AM
@Stefan,

Can't watch the video at you tube as of 27/10/2007 3.17 a.m.

???

Hmm,
I myselfcan also not watch it yet over here in
Germany via the Versatel Internet provider,
where I have my DSL line...
Hmmm...

Seems Google Video might have different
server throughout the world and it has not gone
through all of them.

Ironhead, when I touched a few cables at different places, the light got weaker...

Instead of the metal mesh I justcan also run it versus my grounded scope.
The signal generator is not grounded. It is floating !
It has no ground connection.

I measured the voltage directly at the LEDs and it is
almost a sine wave with plus 5 Volt and about minus 3 Volts peaks
at the resonance frequency.
So although I put in a 0 to 12 Volts square wave via single wire from
the signal generator, I get almost pure AC
at the LEDs.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 04:48:35 AM
Okay, now also at my place the Google video is showing,

The scope in the video was always connected directly across the
signal generator output, so you always see just this output there.

Of course I had connected also the scope ground to the
signal generator ground.

So you see the damping of the output wavefrom from this
choke and LED load going into the stainless steel mesh via this one
wire setup.

I had the camera on a tripod, so it would be not so shaky,
but sometimes it was then hard to film the right parts of the table,
when I wanted to film the whole scene.

Will get better next time.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 04:53:16 AM
@amigo

well done.

Try to put a ground cable or a big alufoil
or metal mesh against one pin of the LED
( does not matter which one)
then the LED will be much brighter at the right
resonance frequency.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 05:01:41 AM
@stefan

Thanks !

That's what I first tried, and it made it brighter, but I noticed I do not get any change now that I have the Al foil underneath it...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 05:28:44 AM
I have problems measuring with my grounded scope now the current coming from
the signal generator at a shunt.

Have to isolate the scope from the ground first and then try again.

Stay tuned for this.

@amigo,
when is your LED the brightest ?
With the alufoil below your experimentation board ?

Or with the alufoil just connected to one LED pin ?

Can you try to measure how much current flows from your
driver circuit via the one wire to your ferrite transformer  ?

So the main problem is with these circuits,
how do you design a very low power very fast rising square wave
or pulse generator ?

Would be interesting to see, if shorter positive pulses will
still give the same brightness if you change the duty cycle.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 05:30:33 AM
I have made a video, especially for that paranoid delusional freak who's name I won't mention and his followers, but everyone is welcome to watch it...it's educational !

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 05:36:50 AM
Hihi,
that was a good one with the Geiger counter ! ;) ;D

What frequency are you running it amigo ?
Do you have to tune it for the right frequency, so the LED
lights up this bright ?

Many thanks for this video.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 05:51:43 AM
Hihi,
that was a good one with the Geiger counter ! ;) ;D

What frequency are you running it amigo ?
Do you have to tune it for the right frequency, so the LED
lights up this bright ?

Many thanks for this video.

Regards, Stefan.

:D

I get 11.21MHz on my Fluke 124 scope, but the frequency is all over the place because the signal generator is not filtered of noise. I did have to tune it so the LED lights up most bright, it's pretty fineky at best.

I tried measuring current but am not sure if my equipment is sensitive enough. Fluke scope shows 0.4mV across the 1ohm resistor, as described by doc.stiffler in Fig.09, but I do not know if that's real or not.

Also, I do not have the high voltage effect present on the other end of the coil. Not sure if I wired it in a wrong way (geesh how many ways are there) but the neon bulb does not light. If I touch the end the LED goes out...

I'll keep at it, thanks for the encouragement :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 06:00:09 AM
Just wanted to add, frequency seems to change a bit, depending on which end of the coil I use and also if I reverse the L2 and L3...still no HV on the free end.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 06:28:54 AM
@amigo
what is your voltage peak to peak output at your oscillator circuit
before going into the coils ?

I also wonder how Dr. Stiffler gets so high high voltage outputs
at his ends of the unconnected coil wires..?

He must  have a very high Q of his resonant circuit.
Maybe he really has very good cores and his Q is very high.

P.S: I tried it with a 220 to 15 Volts transformer made from
normal iron and this also works , if you ground
one side of the output LED.
I used the 12 Volts winding as the one wire choke.

Then it also works with lower frequencies at around 1 Mhz.

But the light output with the ferrite choke is still higher
at its resonance frequency.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 27, 2007, 06:34:09 AM
"I have made a video, especially for that paranoid delusional freak who's name I won't mention and his followers, but everyone is welcome to watch it...it's educational !"

@ amego

Dearest amego,

Delusional paranoid freak here, I noticed that your frequency generator chip only goes to 10mhz, not 21mhz. I also noticed 4 wires going to the board, not 1 wire. So you have not activated the core and that should be evident by the fact that you admit it.

Maybe if you activate the iron at 21MHZ you could do better than barely lighting 1 LED? Hardly a replication of a circuit that has not been verified by anyone including you.

Also, when Stiffler was logging in as other users and pretending to be someone else, he sort of blew his credibility forever with anyone that has some. How do I know that you are not just one of Stifflers minions or Stiffler himself? If Stiffler is even his real name... That we shall know soon enough, it is under investigation.

Is that one of those home made counters that you make from a phase locked loop? Impressive. Hit the core with 21MHZ like Stifler claims and shows with his scope shot and at a high enough power level and it just might detect something, if it works.

Until then you have not replicated anything and only proved that you have poor reading comprehension skills.

Believe me, I really wish I was wrong, I want to be wrong. But here is a reality check:

Stifler claimed few will show you a working cold electricity circuit.
Stiffler claimed it was over unity.
Stiffler claimed barium core necessary.
Stiffler claimed 90 degree opposed winding key.
Stiffler claimed this and that and every claim Stiffler has made, Stiffler has retracted.

Congratulations, so far that you proved a coil can induct with one wire if the frequency is high enough. Sorry to bust your bubble but that has been known for nearly 100 years.

Nice false attack but you only exposed yourself more.

Nice try.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 06:41:50 AM
user:
Freenrg4me
was now banned.

I let his last posting stand here, so everybody knows why he is banned
now.

@Amigo,
maybe you still can try it again at 21 Mhz,
but I guess you will not see any radioactivity again there...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 06:50:06 AM

I tried measuring current but am not sure if my equipment is sensitive enough. Fluke scope shows 0.4mV across the 1ohm resistor, as described by doc.stiffler in Fig.09, but I do not know if that's real or not.

That would mean 0.4 milliAmps going through the LED
or
from the output of the oscillator circuit into ferrite transformer ?

I guess from your visual output it could be 0.4 milliamps through the LED,
as your LED seems to be not very bright and these modern LEDs
already put out such brightness as these current levels...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 08:55:04 AM
My God, what is that guy's problem, he seemed intelligent and knowledgeable from posts I read in the past. What a shame that he has these severe paranoid thoughts that the world is after him to get him. :(

Haven't I written that it was my first attempt in replicating, never claimed it was THE replication, just an attempt. My signal generator is built around MAX038 which is up to 20MHz capable chip, where does he get 10, maybe because I said the coil tuned at ~10. And it's a bastardized version of a signal generator, yet it works so it's a proof of concept.

The output of the MAX038 chip is routed through a 50ohm resistor to the 390pf mica cap which is part of the main circuit. I don't have any op amps after the chip to amplify the signal. The output signal is about 800mVp-p according to my Fluke 124 scope and it seems to be pretty noisy. I should really make at least a better output stage with higher p-p.

0.4mV measured was across the 1ohm resistor between the signal generator and 390pf mica cap, so basically before the ferrite core or the choke actually. So I guess it's 0.4mA current if we are to believe Ampere law. :)

I am not sure what mcd rating my white LEDs are, but they are not the brightest you can get nowadays. It's what I had handy...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 27, 2007, 03:37:29 PM
My God, what is that guy's problem, he seemed intelligent and knowledgeable from posts I read in the past. What a shame that he has these severe paranoid thoughts that the world is after him to get him. :(

Haven't I written that it was my first attempt in replicating, never claimed it was THE replication, just an attempt. My signal generator is built around MAX038 which is up to 20MHz capable chip, where does he get 10, maybe because I said the coil tuned at ~10. And it's a bastardized version of a signal generator, yet it works so it's a proof of concept.

The output of the MAX038 chip is routed through a 50ohm resistor to the 390pf mica cap which is part of the main circuit. I don't have any op amps after the chip to amplify the signal. The output signal is about 800mVp-p according to my Fluke 124 scope and it seems to be pretty noisy. I should really make at least a better output stage with higher p-p.

0.4mV measured was across the 1ohm resistor between the signal generator and 390pf mica cap, so basically before the ferrite core or the choke actually. So I guess it's 0.4mA current if we are to believe Ampere law. :)

I am not sure what mcd rating my white LEDs are, but they are not the brightest you can get nowadays. It's what I had handy...

Great Work!

You are to my knowledge the first person to make a public announcement of a great job in close replication of the basic circuit.

If I might, I would like to offer you some points that may help in moving forward;

1) Have you read on my web page the problem with the direction of the coil winds, both must match, one can not be clockwise and the other counterclockwise. Some strange and undesired things happen if this is not correct.

2) Do no connect any external mass to any of the circuit. When you add metallic mass to increase LED brightness you are moving into a totally different theory of operation and will be limited by capacitive coupling to the environment, back into the equipment. Your current circuit is close to the floating light shown at the top of my web page.

3) You most likely are not seeing the HV because you are not at the correct resonance. This is way a good function gen. comes in handy to find the correct frequency. I have found as many as three frequencies where the LEDS were (to the eye) the same brightness. I have shown on my web page one of many methods that could be used to improve on the eyes response. If this is your case then you would find the correct frequency by first finding the beat ones (noting them) and then with the Neon attached move through these spots to find the correct one.

4) The Al plate does not worth the same as mass does in Stefans example. When using a proto-board with the backing Al plate it need not concern you until you wish to use it as a parasitic amplifier, in which case you would drive the circuit by applying your signal to the outer most plate.

You do need the ability to tune the signal source, I have tried IC's and they do not offer the flexibility to trade off the complexity. A good old LC oscillator with a tunable coil works best.

5) The circuit will 'HUNT' the problem is to be sure it is not caused by your oscillator shifting from thermal changes in the components. But when a search coil is used to explore a working coil you will see a wide bandwidth of frequencies.

6) The more LEDS you add in series the higher the voltage will rise in the coil, don't hold back, start adding and retuning, when its right you will well know.

Continued good luck and coming advances.....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 27, 2007, 04:00:21 PM
@amigo

Short note, I forgot to thank you for doing the radiation test. Peers have asked for this but my Beta counter would not work here.

Looked at the video, why not put it up on YouTube?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 06:22:54 PM
Hi Ron and Amigo,
thanks for all the new infos.

I really must get such a core and see myself these extreme
resonances.
Also my function generator goes only with the trick to about 3  Mhz,
so it is not good enough for these things.

I also had an old ferrite core, with some coils handwrapped around it already
from former experiments, but there the output of the LEDs still
was lower...

So I guess we really need special core with the Litz wire
and the exact same setup as Ron has to get these very high Q resonances
and extract the power this way.

It still puzzles me, how Ron can extract this free energy with just a ground
wire.

Where is the excitationcoming in then from?

I have read an article a while ago, which stated, that some
LEDs or diodes have some kind of negative resistance
region inside the current flowing direction and thus
can oscillate in the conduction direction.
It was not a tunneddiode or something like this,
it was a special sort of LEDs when I remember correctly..

So Ron,could you please try this grounded wire
experiment with some other LEDs and also with
some other core ?
Will this also work ?

We have to see exactly how only with a ground wire
we can generate this power without any batteries...

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: terry1094 on October 27, 2007, 09:35:55 PM
@stefan

Thanks !

That's what I first tried, and it made it brighter, but I noticed I do not get any change now that I have the Al foil underneath it...

Hi, Amigo,

Can you tell us how many windings you have on your primary and secondary.

Thanks!

Terry
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 28, 2007, 12:44:29 AM
@RStiffler,

Thanks for the support and the guidance, I will go and re-read the entire page again because there were updates in the mean time while I was working on this.

I did make sure that my secondary coil is wound in the same direction as the primary. That was the problem with my first attempt week ago until I read on your page that they have to match directions.

I have switched now to a full breadboard with the metal backing and only placed your circuit on it, while keeping the signal generator on the smaller board. Sadly now my LED barely lights up, though the frequency is about the same ~10.7MHz. If I touch the gnd (-) on my signal generator board the LED lights up brighter but that's not what we are looking for. :)

I feel I'm back to square one now since the LED is barely illuminated (hard to see) and my signal generator does not seem to be working as one would hope. You are right that one needs a good instrument for things like this, but...

Perhaps if you have time, could you please consider posting on your page a simple tunable LC oscillator that everyone can build. That way we will all be on the same "page" when it comes to sources of the signal?

Regarding the video, I did not like the lo-res quality of YouTube thus I made my video at 480x360 so that details are clear. :)

Do you know if litz wire is absolute necessity on the coil or could we wind a similar full copper primary instead though I suppose all this has to do with capacitance, no? Would be great if we did not have to special order coils, since I have found a bunch of cores in a local surplus store, but without the coils on them and would like to wind my own if possible.

@hartiberlin

I must say that the margin of error is very narrow here when it comes to frequency control and it is necessary to strike the right one to get the best results. An oscillator with fine tuning (down to KHz or better) would come very very handy. I'm also interested in the no generator ground only experiment because there was no tuning involved there, it appeared to simply just work on its own. :)

@terry1094

I do not how many windings are on the primary, I just used the existing ferrite core I pulled out of an old alarm clock with radio. The geometry matched so I figured I got nothing to lose by trying it. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 28, 2007, 01:34:12 AM
@RStiffler,

Thanks for the support and the guidance, I will go and re-read the entire page again because there were updates in the mean time while I was working on this.

I did make sure that my secondary coil is wound in the same direction as the primary. That was the problem with my first attempt week ago until I read on your page that they have to match directions.

I have switched now to a full breadboard with the metal backing and only placed your circuit on it, while keeping the signal generator on the smaller board. Sadly now my LED barely lights up, though the frequency is about the same ~10.7MHz. If I touch the gnd (-) on my signal generator board the LED lights up brighter but that's not what we are looking for. :)

I feel I'm back to square one now since the LED is barely illuminated (hard to see) and my signal generator does not seem to be working as one would hope. You are right that one needs a good instrument for things like this, but...

Perhaps if you have time, could you please consider posting on your page a simple tunable LC oscillator that everyone can build. That way we will all be on the same "page" when it comes to sources of the signal?

Regarding the video, I did not like the lo-res quality of YouTube thus I made my video at 480x360 so that details are clear. :)

Do you know if litz wire is absolute necessity on the coil or could we wind a similar full copper primary instead though I suppose all this has to do with capacitance, no? Would be great if we did not have to special order coils, since I have found a bunch of cores in a local surplus store, but without the coils on them and would like to wind my own if possible.

@hartiberlin

I must say that the margin of error is very narrow here when it comes to frequency control and it is necessary to strike the right one to get the best results. An oscillator with fine tuning (down to KHz or better) would come very very handy. I'm also interested in the no generator ground only experiment because there was no tuning involved there, it appeared to simply just work on its own. :)

@terry1094

I do not how many windings are on the primary, I just used the existing ferrite core I pulled out of an old alarm clock with radio. The geometry matched so I figured I got nothing to lose by trying it. :)

@amigo

I have often been called on the carpet because of as some say (Rude, Curt etc.,) but often you just need to cut to the chase. It is a shame everyone does not have a lab full of equipment, it sure does make a difference. I can not really help on the generator as what I was making reference to is an oscillator that is built to match your required frequency for your coil(s),as currently seen at the bottom of my web page. The oscillator is a Colpitts driving a MOSFET. The values of C and L are selected for the desired frequency which must be known. The coil has a ferrite core which allows maybe 1MHz of tuning which is not enough to be used for finding the resonant points.

You will see on my page where I built a cheap and dirty circuit on a bit of cardboard, this shows that when it is working a proto-board is not even needed. I would think something very simple has changed in your porting to the bigger board.

The reason I insist on starting here is that to move on, one must be able to understand the little strange things that can make it work or not. The ground only circuit is a highly tuned set of coils that are matched to each other. I show a similar example in the section of my page where I explain the winding sense problem. Consider I have been working on this for over 7 years, so it is not something I can just write about and you can do it. I have that feel and understanding and you and all that move forward will need to gain the same insight. This is a case of crawling before you walk.

Maybe I need to look back and see just how hard it was to get here, also your coils may not work. I really can not offer much more.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 28, 2007, 02:13:43 AM
@RStiffler

Please forgive us, I feel most of us are just anxious to jump right into it instead of taking small baby steps towards the final goal of walking upright. :o

Some people do not have scopes and function generators, others might not even have DMMs. In this case this is quite an impediment and is a show stopper, but we can only do with what we have available to each of us. I believe it's important to keep working and trying, if we give up or never try then the battle is already lost. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 28, 2007, 02:42:19 AM
Hi Ron,
is it okay to just use a sinewave with around 10 Mhz or do we need
a square wave at this frequency to excite the cores ?

As you show a sine frequency on your scopeshots, I guess
you used also your singal generator on sine function, right ?

Please try to find out what resonancefrequency works best
and what the ferrite core with the 2 coils around
it has for its own resonance frequency and how high the Q is.

We really have to nail down the parameters to see, how we
best extract the energy.
At least we have here a first circuit that runs
without any power input and puts out already a few hundred
So to scale this up we need to find the right parameters.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 28, 2007, 04:17:50 AM
I do not believe there is one single resonant frequency that we can nail this down to. Every coil is different and so with each one it will require some specific tunning. That's what the last circuit on the experiment page is about, it's a fine tuned oscillator but only for the core doc has with him. Our cores would probably be slightly different, depending on other components as well. But this is just my half-educated guess :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 28, 2007, 04:59:01 AM
@ Stefan:

I have followed this topic for a while now and I have a question.  You guys are all much better versed in electronics than I am.  I have a basic, working knowledge, but that's about it.  This circuit, you said, is putting out electricity as evidenced by the three LEDs illuminated in your video, without power input.  When you adjusted the frequency dial on a piece of your equipment I saw the LEDs get brighter, then dimmer.  Excuse my ignorance but, the piece of equipment you were adjusting was plugged in to the grid, correct?  I assume this was just adjusting the frequency as you said in the video (which I enjoyed by the way as I said in an earlier post) but, is there no "energy" passed from that device to the circuit?  I guess I am thinking of it like a radio tuner/amplifier that adjusts the frequencies of the broadcasts and amplifies.  Of course, there are just receivers that do not amplify but, I am just wondering if any energy is entering the circuit from that device?

Also, you stated the frequency that showed the best result as you tuned several times, would it be possible to design a circuit that resonates at this particular frequency such that, you would not need that piece of equipment?

As I said, please forgive my ignorance as to you guys that know, I probably sound like an idiot.  But, at least I know what I know, and I am not afraid to admit when I don't.  Thanks.

By the way.....good decision on the ban. (my opinion.)

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 28, 2007, 07:51:43 PM
Hi Ron,
is it okay to just use a sinewave with around 10 Mhz or do we need
a square wave at this frequency to excite the cores ?

As you show a sine frequency on your scopeshots, I guess
you used also your singal generator on sine function, right ?

Please try to find out what resonancefrequency works best
and what the ferrite core with the 2 coils around
it has for its own resonance frequency and how high the Q is.

We really have to nail down the parameters to see, how we
best extract the energy.
At least we have here a first circuit that runs
without any power input and puts out already a few hundred
So to scale this up we need to find the right parameters.

Regards, Stefan.

@Stefan

The reason I put these circuits out to the public, was to ask for help in duplication so that the answers can be found. These devices are not off the shelf and are FAR from being able to be manufactured and heal the world. I was under the impression that Overunity had a group that were willing to experiment and build circuits in an effort to reach something productive?

If this is not the case then of course these devices do not need to be discussed here. There is NO hard fast rules or MASTER parts list to build from that gives the Holy Grail device. Experimentation is required in order for others to see if they arrive at the same place that I have. I have disclosed and am continuing to disclose all information I have on my web site.

You can use sine or square wave as the driving signal, sine does not produce the same number (less) resonant points as the square wave. In some coils if you use sine you may never obtain the high voltage as indicated by the neon.

I also disagree that just any old coil will do this. You may get a LED or two to light, but see the top of my web page where I show 40+ LEDS from a single wire coil.

I do not believe there is one single resonant frequency that we can nail this down to. Every coil is different and so with each one it will require some specific tunning. That's what the last circuit on the experiment page is about, it's a fine tuned oscillator but only for the core doc has with him. Our cores would probably be slightly different, depending on other components as well. But this is just my half-educated guess :)

@amigo
You are 100% correct in your understanding.

@ Stefan:

I have followed this topic for a while now and I have a question.  You guys are all much better versed in electronics than I am.  I have a basic, working knowledge, but that's about it.  This circuit, you said, is putting out electricity as evidenced by the three LEDs illuminated in your video, without power input.  When you adjusted the frequency dial on a piece of your equipment I saw the LEDs get brighter, then dimmer.  Excuse my ignorance but, the piece of equipment you were adjusting was plugged in to the grid, correct?  I assume this was just adjusting the frequency as you said in the video (which I enjoyed by the way as I said in an earlier post) but, is there no "energy" passed from that device to the circuit?  I guess I am thinking of it like a radio tuner/amplifier that adjusts the frequencies of the broadcasts and amplifies.  Of course, there are just receivers that do not amplify but, I am just wondering if any energy is entering the circuit from that device?

Also, you stated the frequency that showed the best result as you tuned several times, would it be possible to design a circuit that resonates at this particular frequency such that, you would not need that piece of equipment?

As I said, please forgive my ignorance as to you guys that know, I probably sound like an idiot.  But, at least I know what I know, and I am not afraid to admit when I don't.  Thanks.

By the way.....good decision on the ban. (my opinion.)

Bill

@Pirate88179
What Stefan has is very similar to what is called a Bucking Driver for LEDS where the inductance aids in powering the LEDS when the field collapses from the signal gen. as it moves through a complete cycle. If you look under LED Drivers on the internet and look at the bucking systems it may help in understand. A Red LED for example can put out a dim light if a person stands insulated and touches one end to a large mass. In this case it is being excited by ambient 60hz or 50hz.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 28, 2007, 07:54:04 PM
Hi Bill,
I still needed power input from my signal generator,
but as I could only go up to 3 Mhz, this resonant point there
was not yet the best one.
Probably there will be a better one at around 10 to 20 Mhz,
where I would not have needed a ground wire to the metal mesh.

To get this frequency for a specific core, first you have to find
out the core-coil resonant frequency by different measurements
and then you can build for instance a quartz controlled divider
circuit , maybe also with a Phase Locked Loop circuit,
which exactly hits this resonance frequency.

But the best thing would be, if we all could design
bigger coil-core combinations, that could
just be excited with a ground wire only,
as Ron has shown it and which will
then selfoscillate at the right frequency
and produce free energy like Ron did.

But for this case you need a very high quality Q
LC circuit, which will selfoscillate at this frequency
just by the smallest ground currents..
Maybe Ron?s circuit was also excited by the local
radio stations, so the coil-core combination was
just receiving a bit RF power from the radiostation
or a nearby mobile phone transmitter and amplified this then
and did ring at its own resonance frequency...

I hope Ron can find this out and also try it outside his town, where no radio
stations are located.
We really have to see, what the ground wire is inducing into the
circuit, so it will oscillate and light the LEDs up.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 28, 2007, 08:02:46 PM
P.S. Before I am continueing with this circuit concept,
I still have to get a better frequency generator and also need
these special litz wire coils and cores.

I really want to replicate the exact setup as Ron has built it
or very simular at least.

This will need a few days.

Coming week I will continue with the tests of the other circuit:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3475.msg55362#msg55362
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 28, 2007, 08:12:26 PM
Hi Ron,
another question:
What happens, when you shortout the coil L1
in the Fig: 14 - Circuit #7 Diagram ?

Will the LEDs still light up with just a ground wire and using
no signal generator ?

2. What will happen,
if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
Fig: 26

Will you still get these high voltages, that can light neon bulbs
at the core-coils ?

At around 2 Mhz my Avramenkp plug diode also lighted up
without my ground (metal-mesh) wire, but I never got the high voltages
yet at the coils of my ferrite transformer.

Probably I could have got them only around 10 to 20 Mhz.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 28, 2007, 08:16:06 PM
P.S. Before I am continueing with this circuit concept,
I still have to get a better frequency generator and also need
these special litz wire coils and cores.

I really want to replicate the exact setup as Ron has built it
or very simular at least.

This will need a few days.

Here's how I started. I opened my closet and found an old alarm clock with a radio. Upon closer inspection it had a similar core so I pulled it out. All in all it took me 5 mins to find a core. :)

Surely you must have an old alarm clock or an old radio or a garage sale over the weekend or some place with surplus items that sells stuff cheap (\$1-\$5) where you could pick one up. I know I was way too anxious to get this on the go because it was so impressive that I could not have possibly waited for eBay purchase and delivery. :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 28, 2007, 08:26:53 PM
@RStiffler

You can use sine or square wave as the driving signal, sine does not produce the same number (less) resonant points as the square wave. In some coils if you use sine you may never obtain the high voltage as indicated by the neon.

Duh. Let me smack myself behind my neck since there's no one around to do it for me :)

I kept using Sine waves and wondering why my effects are so diminutive or why I do not see several peak resonant points. I am going to mod my signal generator to output square wave and see what happens next.

Would saw tooth waves work better perhaps, something like slow rise, sharp drop?

What Stefan has is very similar to what is called a Bucking Driver for LEDS where the inductance aids in powering the LEDS when the field collapses from the signal gen. as it moves through a complete cycle. If you look under LED Drivers on the internet and look at the bucking systems it may help in understand. A Red LED for example can put out a dim light if a person stands insulated and touches one end to a large mass. In this case it is being excited by ambient 60hz or 50hz.

When you say Bucking Driver, do you mean those Joule Thief kind of circuits, here's my "Bedinified" version of it:
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 28, 2007, 08:55:56 PM
Hi Ron,
another question:
What happens, when you shortout the coil L1
in the Fig: 14 - Circuit #7 Diagram ?

Will the LEDs still light up with just a ground wire and using
no signal generator ?

2. What will happen,
if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
Fig: 26

Will you still get these high voltages, that can light neon bulbs
at the core-coils ?

At around 2 Mhz my Avramenkp plug diode also lighted up
without my ground (metal-mesh) wire, but I never got the high voltages
yet at the coils of my ferrite transformer.

Probably I could have got them only around 10 to 20 Mhz.

>What happens, when you shortout the coil L1
>in the Fig: 14 - Circuit #7 Diagram ?

One side stops operation.

>Will the LEDs still light up with just a ground wire and using
>no signal generator ?

Which circuit? What Diagram?

>2. What will happen,
>if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
>Fig: 26

The LED is a bit dimmer. The cap is not forming a series resonant tank.

>Will you still get these high voltages, that can light neon bulbs
>at the core-coils ?

If you are at the correct frequency. I explain fully that you can get a LED to light at maybe three freqs. with no HV and only one gives the HV.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 28, 2007, 09:22:03 PM
Hi Ron,
will figure 22
with the picture:
(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce7dblwingcir.gif)

still light up all the LEDs,
if you shortout L1
just have a ground wire going to it there at L2 ?

Quote
>2. What will happen,
>if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
>Fig: 26

The LED is a bit dimmer. The cap is not forming a series resonant tank.

So it seems it is just the coil-core resonance
which are doing these effects, not the
external caps together with the coils.

I will build myself a square wave generator up to around 20 Mhz
and see where the resonances are with my ferrite transformer
and a few other ferrite cores I still have laying around.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 28, 2007, 09:44:24 PM
Hi Ron,
will figure 22
with the picture:
(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce7dblwingcir.gif)

still light up all the LEDs,
if you shortout L1
just have a ground wire going to it there at L2 ?

Quote
>2. What will happen,
>if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
>Fig: 26

The LED is a bit dimmer. The cap is not forming a series resonant tank.

So it seems it is just the coil-core resonance
which are doing these effects, not the
external caps together with the coils.

I will build myself a square wave generator up to around 20 Mhz
and see where the resonances are with my ferrite transformer
and a few other ferrite cores I still have laying around.

Regards, Stefan.

In this configuration, shorting L1 will reduce the amount of energy to the LEDS. They will light but very dim.

In this configuration the two Al plates are forming a parasitic amplifier in between the generator and the circuit. They allow for a very low drive from the generator. Removal of any one plate will kill the effect.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 29, 2007, 01:38:23 AM
So the signal generator
was always running in the background ?

Also in this figure 14 case ?

(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce7cir01.gif)

What did energize the coil-core  combination then ?

Just some 60 Hz "noise" from the ground wire ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 29, 2007, 01:48:12 AM
So the signal generator
was always running in the background ?

Also in this figure 14 case ?

(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce7cir01.gif)

What did energize the coil-core  combination then ?

Just some 60 Hz "noise" from the ground wire ?

Getting somewhat concerned about what you do not understand, or do not want to. Where in this diagram do you see a parasitic plate or a signal generator.
Please stop trying to change or put works in my mouth because I will not just jump to the end.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 29, 2007, 02:19:19 AM
Thank you Dr. Stiffler and Stefan for your replies.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 29, 2007, 03:00:59 AM
@RStiffler

I'm still having a hard time with lighting anything more than one LED and even one does not shine as bright. I have modified my mock-up function generator to be able to fine tune the frequency, so with that I found another resonant frequency for me at 8.59MHz where the LED lights up but not as bright as at 10.07MHz. Still looking for the third resonant frequency but I'm afraid that without a real function generator I will not be able to get there.

So in the mean time I have built your oscillator from Fig: PL01 at the bottom of the page, figured let's see what kind of a wave it produces and at what frequency. Turns out on my scope it looks like a sawtooth slow rise sharp fall at around 6.96MHz.

What I'm wondering about is how did you make it so that it tunes to your exact resonant frequency, because I might as well use this circuit to tune mine in?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 29, 2007, 03:48:59 AM
@RStiffler,

Interestingly enough I have hooked up my hand held frequency counter to the PL01 circuit, and it shows ~7.179913MHz before the 400pf capacitor, and ~5.178899MHz after it.

So my fluke scope isn't as accurate as I'd hope since it missed by 220KHz, but that's beside the point, what bugs me is how come the frequency is below 10MHz and yet it is a best resonant one for that circuit?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 29, 2007, 04:47:06 AM
@RStiffler

Alright, I'm lost now. :)

I got the PL01 circuit built (just the oscillator) and thought: I'll plug my core in and see what happens, worst case nothing does. Lo and behold the LED lights up pretty bright, so I plug in two more and the brightness diminishes but they are still lit. :o

Why is this happening, if the circuit was tuned to your cores and not mine? Is it because it appears to be auto-tuning into the resonant frequency for the circuit it is connected to?

It does not light the LEDs bright here and I cannot drive more than couple of, or they will not light up at all (tried 10 which was too many). I guess I'm still missing something...

Thanks!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on October 29, 2007, 10:00:08 AM
Tesla's experiment from Colorado Spring has a problem with good grounding, and he put lot of water soaking to overcome it for make good ground point. If some HF oscillator was work on one side, this signal was going through this line hundred of meters (lot of device has build HF oscillator inside, HF lump for example). When he switch on his HF transformer, every nail was making spark, and in one experiment he burn out lot of standard Edison bulb, without wire, on around 10 m of distance.
If some HF source is near, it will actuate your device. You can see on my web:  http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02.html) my investigation. I have receive energy in my house, but not when I go out. If some energy from inside of Earth exist (from thundering or something), it will be in less than diodes barrier signal form. Your coil can do Q=2PIf/R amplification, and overcome this diode-barrier problem.
Only with wire I have around 10 V in 5 minutes, and with 1 m2 plates I have 40 V, and good spark. Maybe transformer in my oven generate that energy, and it is only connect with one wire.
I think diodes without barriers (or mechanical rotating switching) will be important to receive that Earth energy.
I just want to help...
You need good grounding (and testing yours, which you use), and it must be only device which use it. Maybe some tree with nail inside, will be enough (just one of idea for nature grounding point). You can do it easy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 29, 2007, 02:20:17 PM
@amigo

You might want to communicated with me direct in order to save bandwidth here and then you can present your findings. I now see a number of things in your circuit that can be causing a problem. I will state a few here.

1) In a coil the things to consider are Inductance (L), Impedance (Z), Inductive Reactance (Xc), and any mutual inductance. In your circuit L1 is wrong. It may very well have an L similar to my specification but the physical structure is all wrong. The Xc must be much higher than what I use. You are so close, finish by doing a good L1.

2) You show three LEDS, what happens when you add a fourth and fifth?

3) Your oscillator PL01. This is of Colpitts design and two things again determine frequency, the coil in the collector and the two caps, from collector to emitter and emitter to ground. If the L is large in order to be the major determinate of frequency then the C's will be rather small and any temperature or parasitic capacity will change the frequency and the oscillator may become unstable.

4) Because the two caps in the oscillator are part of the equation to set the frequency, also the coupling cap and the capacity of the MSOFET are in parallel with these components. You may have to figure if you need to reduce the value of the coupling cap. Use 1/(2*pi*f*C) to get reactance. I would not want much more than Xc=100.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 29, 2007, 02:25:11 PM
@amigo

Forgot to add, the reason the LED brightness falls is the LEDS have changed the resonate point of the coils, you have to retune to the max point again. If in tuning your oscillator the freq. changes rapidly you may not be able to find the exact point. I know this is a fine line, an oscillator that will swing over a wide bandwidth and yet be adjustable in a small bandwidth. So goes experiment.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 29, 2007, 08:09:51 PM
Dear Ron,
so what exactly is exciting the coil-cores,
if you use just a ground wire ?
Can you try to find this out please ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 29, 2007, 10:56:31 PM
New video;

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Localjoe on October 30, 2007, 12:26:19 AM
Rstiffler said both these quotes on this thread ... Stefan wasn't off base at all for asking that question about the ground noise and single wire conductor

Getting somewhat concerned about what you do not understand, or do not want to. Where in this diagram do you see a parasitic plate or a signal generator.
Please stop trying to change or put works in my mouth because I will not just jump to the end.

4) The Al plate does not worth the same as mass does in Stefans example. When using a proto-board with the backing Al plate it need not concern you until you wish to use it as a parasitic amplifier, in which case you would drive the circuit by applying your signal to the outer most plate.
??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 30, 2007, 12:46:07 AM
Rstiffler said both these quotes on this thread ... Stefan wasn't off base at all for asking that question about the ground noise and single wire conductor

Getting somewhat concerned about what you do not understand, or do not want to. Where in this diagram do you see a parasitic plate or a signal generator.
Please stop trying to change or put works in my mouth because I will not just jump to the end.

4) The Al plate does not worth the same as mass does in Stefans example. When using a proto-board with the backing Al plate it need not concern you until you wish to use it as a parasitic amplifier, in which case you would drive the circuit by applying your signal to the outer most plate.
??? ??? ??? ???
If you want to say something, say it, why extend the thread by some form of insinuation?

If you want to pursue the work great otherwise one could infer you to be another distractor  ????
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: starcruiser on October 30, 2007, 01:17:11 AM
;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 30, 2007, 01:43:05 AM
Amazing Video !

What happens if the generator ground is connected
to the Al plate of the Jameco board ?

BTW: The ground impedance of the signal generator
connected to mains ground would be interesting..
The signal of the generator still rides on this impedance
vs. ambient electrical potential.
Every operating switching mode power supply without
power shaping "feeds" the mains ground.
The wave lenght at 10MHz is 30 meters.

If the power is transported via al plate and ambient potential
vs. signal generator ground - I would say that this can?t
be achieved with 60 Hz. Options could be that grounded
devices like switching mode power supplies produce overtone
harmonics on the ground line.
Even the complete ground system of the building could
operate as antenna for the nearby radio stations.
By tapping these antenna on the right point....
10pf @ 60 Hz -> GOhms
10pf @ 10 Megs -> 1k6

Even if the coil has inverse hysteresis and/or the led
has an operating point with negative resistance - how do
you achieve the needed polarization current on the air-al
plate without rf involved or overunity ?

amazing.

rgds,

Wolfgang
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 30, 2007, 01:59:12 AM
@RStiffler

Those were very constructive remarks in your previous post and I will take them seriously. I know my L1 is not correct - I am struggling here with what I have. :)

Right now I do not have access to a good LCR meter (perhaps you could suggest one to me please?) The Mastech DMM I have has LC option but it is pretty crude and does not measure down to uH as I would like to.
I saw some on eBay but not sure if they are any good: for example this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PROFESSIONAL-10KHZ-HANDHELD-DIGITAL-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190167757680QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)) or this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/PROFESSIONAL-NEW-10KHZ-DIGITAL-BENCHTOP-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190166121744QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).

As far as taking the conversation private, if you do not mind, could we keep it in here? I feel that my limited success so far will encourage others to start experimenting and reporting their findings here. This thread is already a solid repository of knowledge about this subject with many excellent remarks made by you and the others, so anyone else interested can easily refer to it, beside going to your web page.

I'm off to watch your latest video now and then to see if I can make a new better L1...

Thank You.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Localjoe on October 30, 2007, 02:06:32 AM
Sorry Dr Stiffer , I'm a cryptic writer and I meant no harm.  It just looked like you were trying to keep Stefan on base so he could discover things like you did, but by keeping it basic still, so to understand what was making them happen and why.  But since you had brought up the parasitic capacitor, signal generator thing before Iin the thread  I was assuming that it might be something to play with later in the game but not for now since were still understanding the elements of what is happening. Again no harm intended sorry.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 30, 2007, 02:13:53 AM
@RStiffler

Those were very constructive remarks in your previous post and I will take them seriously. I know my L1 is not correct - I am struggling here with what I have. :)

Right now I do not have access to a good LCR meter (perhaps you could suggest one to me please?) The Mastech DMM I have has LC option but it is pretty crude and does not measure down to uH as I would like to.
I saw some on eBay but not sure if they are any good: for example this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PROFESSIONAL-10KHZ-HANDHELD-DIGITAL-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190167757680QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)) or this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/PROFESSIONAL-NEW-10KHZ-DIGITAL-BENCHTOP-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190166121744QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).

As far as taking the conversation private, if you do not mind, could we keep it in here? I feel that my limited success so far will encourage others to start experimenting and reporting their findings here. This thread is already a solid repository of knowledge about this subject with many excellent remarks made by you and the others, so anyone else interested can easily refer to it, beside going to your web page.

I'm off to watch your latest video now and then to see if I can make a new better L1...

Thank You.
Well we may keep it here for a bit yet, although I am getting tired of using my time to play the games going on, like the so called RF issue. Rhetoric is not what I agreed to here by joining the list. If they (and they) know who they are can not get the idea this is my technology and we will proceed under my terms or I will no longer be a part of it, plain and simple.

Build, explore and then understand. If all we do here is want the end first and harp on RF or local transmitters then move on to one of you more productive technologies.

Sorry for the rant.

Meters yes, but anything good costs bucks, so I don't want to be put in that position, that would be a personal decision.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 30, 2007, 02:40:51 AM
Well we may keep it here for a bit yet, although I am getting tired of using my time to play the games going on, like the so called RF issue. Rhetoric is not what I agreed to here by joining the list. If they (and they) know who they are can not get the idea this is my technology and we will proceed under my terms or I will no longer be a part of it, plain and simple.

Build, explore and then understand. If all we do here is want the end first and harp on RF or local transmitters then move on to one of you more productive technologies.

Sorry for the rant.

Meters yes, but anything good costs bucks, so I don't want to be put in that position, that would be a personal decision.

I understand your frustration, but perhaps you can ignore those voices altogether since there will always be those who do not believe, it's like that in any field not just this one. So, let's not worry about them, but about us and others willing to do something new and different. :)

I showed the last video to my girlfriend who's just standing over my shoulder right now and she believed it. She does not know anything about RF or electronics and does not care, as long as you turn it on and there's light it's good enough for her. And she is the kind of people that we want to make these devices for, normal people, not RF skeptics who will be nitpicking and looking for a hidden wire or a midget in a black box turning the gears. :D

About personal preference in meters, I agree though I'm seeking an advice from someone with more experience using them. I saw you have the Elenco LCR-1810, is that a good LCR meter, have you used it to make your coils with?
Don't worry, I will not buy that or something else and then say "Dr. Stiffler told me to get this one and it doesn't work well". It will still be my decision and my money at the end. :)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on October 30, 2007, 03:13:26 AM
Amazing stuff Dr Stiffler, and well done Amigos.
I have been following this thread with great interest. I 'm a little out of my league here regarding
detailed analysis of high frequency RF style experiments, but I think I grasp the main concepts here and
I definitely find the subject fascinating and motivating. Makes me want to go out and buy some parts right now!

Keep up the great work, and please don't go private with the info you are gaining.

Your work is precious at this moment in time. There will always be detractors in any field of research.
They are often a good "barometer" for determining what not to do! (LOL) Forget them and keep investigating.
What you are achieving is priceless!

Cheers from the Toad who Hops

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 30, 2007, 06:25:40 AM
Hi Ron,
many thanks for the new video.
Can you please let us know,
what frequency and what amplitude did you drive it with
via the single wire ?
Was it a sine or a square wave ?

Many thanks.

P.S: If you have problems with the slow

www.vtunnel.com

This kind of proxy server can stream the youtube videos much faster.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on October 30, 2007, 08:31:59 AM
I believe that RStiffler has capture some energy.
I understand Tesla's system of sending energy through Earth. Every standard HF station has two part (bad from Tesla's point of view):
2. ground current (~10%)

It is standard radio transmitter system. If voltage on output antenna is high, that 10% can go to all part of Earth.
In Tesla's transmitter he use 90% of ground current and more, and his system don't radiate energy in radio wave form.
Receiver for that 'ground' transmitting is in his patents: 685 953 and 685 955.
You can found it on my web page: http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07.html)

I think that we have lot of energy signal in ground. For receive you need two plates in distance in ground, or one in air, and other in ground, or inductance in air and ground... And system for accumulate that low energy in some time interval for magnification, and useful work.

I know that this device can work, but where is the source? Is it natural, or is human powered Tesla's style transmitter?
Ionosphere-ground system has lot of energy. If you somehow capture that energy, it will be great. But if you capture human powered, you just prove Tesla's energy transmission.

RStiffler, I think that you has done good work! It could be embryo for something new...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 30, 2007, 09:49:47 AM
@RStiffler

Those were very constructive remarks in your previous post and I will take them seriously. I know my L1 is not correct - I am struggling here with what I have. :)

Right now I do not have access to a good LCR meter (perhaps you could suggest one to me please?) The Mastech DMM I have has LC option but it is pretty crude and does not measure down to uH as I would like to.
I saw some on eBay but not sure if they are any good: for example this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PROFESSIONAL-10KHZ-HANDHELD-DIGITAL-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190167757680QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)) or this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/PROFESSIONAL-NEW-10KHZ-DIGITAL-BENCHTOP-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190166121744QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).

As far as taking the conversation private, if you do not mind, could we keep it in here? I feel that my limited success so far will encourage others to start experimenting and reporting their findings here. This thread is already a solid repository of knowledge about this subject with many excellent remarks made by you and the others, so anyone else interested can easily refer to it, beside going to your web page.

I'm off to watch your latest video now and then to see if I can make a new better L1...

Thank You.
Well we may keep it here for a bit yet, although I am getting tired of using my time to play the games going on, like the so called RF issue. Rhetoric is not what I agreed to here by joining the list. If they (and they) know who they are can not get the idea this is my technology and we will proceed under my terms or I will no longer be a part of it, plain and simple.

Build, explore and then understand. If all we do here is want the end first and harp on RF or local transmitters then move on to one of you more productive technologies.

The rf issue ....
I never raised the question that the circuit itself is receiving rf in a classical way.
But its connected (even if only hot wire of the generator connected) to mains ground
via the generator output resistance. (and such connection is essential - so far)
And as long there is no LC filter between generator output and al plate (as "local" ground),
or there is a measurement with (ground lifted) spectrum analyzer and high voltage probe between
main ground and al plate - we dont know it(if rf is involved).
The operating frequency of the circuit is rf - means that all effects related to rf
apply - so its an issue. (maybe your technology/approach is different)
I respect your technology and what you have found by a high degree,
but I still believe in the possibility of scientific discussion -.
If there is no interest in such discussion - no problem.

I?ll analyse my main ground vs. ambient potential in my lab with
a spectrum analyser - because its an interesting topic.
I?ll discuss my findings with myself - so no need for any action -
There will be no AM coils involved, no leds, so your technology
is not touched in any sense.

So please ignore this post - I will open up another thread (if not
possible on this platform than on another platform) for
grounding issues  - and you continue here with your project
and under your terms and conditions.

rgds.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 30, 2007, 04:16:16 PM
Please do open another thread, I would love to read your findings, You are much more knowlegeable than I and am always eager to learn. Ill provide whatever feedback I can, but dont just discus with yourself, the arguements always seem to be biased that way  ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 30, 2007, 08:25:25 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

I was told about your work today.  I have been remiss on keeping an eye on Overunity.com lately.   Downloaded the base article from your home site and digested it.   Built it up (the simple circuit somewhat modified) and it works as advertised.  I believe this is the same device as shown on YouTube.

As I didn?t have the specified coil/core, I used a Ferrite magnet from a Bedini bicycle wheel motor, wound 300T #32 secondary, 50T primary. I have no idea if this is optimal or not.   1N914's feeding 10uf, LED in series with iron core MA meter across cap.  I left both other ends of primary and secondary floating.  NO measurable DC current in input side of circuit. I don't have an RF Ma meter to check the RF current but from other test, it would appear to be very low.  The circuit is excited via a small coil/470 pf in series from my HP-3312A sig. generator using only + output set to as high PP output possible and from there to the Ferrite coil.  Output around 27 ma @ 6MHz, second and third peak @ 8 and 10Mhz. Output is 30% higher using square waves.  Have tried every method of grounding, base plate, output, input, generator, etc.  All end up with degraded output.  I even put two diodes back to back in series with the input and it still works...a 50ua meter in the input shows no input current.  I realize we are working with RF here but this is something new.  I will say that the most simplified circuit is the 2-1N914's/cap LED circuit connected directly to +++ lead of the generator but only 6-7 ma that way peak and I suspect the base current without the ferrite effect.

This is most interesting work and I want to say thanks for taking the time to show it to us.  I also enjoyed the other research on your site.

Ben K4ZEP

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 30, 2007, 08:57:05 PM
Newbie here. My first post. I have been reading this one project since the beginning. I have tried a variation of Dr's project and and up with something absolutely ultra simple. No other components but LEDs, all sort of colors and sizes and different specs. About 50+. All fully bright.

I use only a bread-board, function generator set to around 9Mhz. Only positive probe connected to circuit. No resistors, no transistors, no coils, nothing. One ground wire to neutral of house-power. Function generator powered by house or battery 12v with 300w inverter so that I could make sure there is no connection of the house ground with the probe.

I will post pics and video if anyone is interested. This was very surprising for me since I was looking to replicate this project and start very small and as I was doing I was simplifying even more to the point that only the function gen and LEDs are enough.

Measure power in = 0 current ma. Power draining to ground around 100ma 4+v. Some of the LEDs are in series and some in parallel. Very interesting indeed.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 30, 2007, 10:08:51 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

I was told about your work today.  I have been remiss on keeping an eye on Overunity.com lately.   Downloaded the base article from your home site and digested it.   Built it up (the simple circuit somewhat modified) and it works as advertised.  I believe this is the same device as shown on YouTube.

As I didn?t have the specified coil/core, I used a Ferrite magnet from a Bedini bicycle wheel motor, wound 300T #32 secondary, 50T primary. I have no idea if this is optimal or not.   1N914's feeding 10uf, LED in series with iron core MA meter across cap.  I left both other ends of primary and secondary floating.  NO measurable DC current in input side of circuit. I don't have an RF Ma meter to check the RF current but from other test, it would appear to be very low.  The circuit is excited via a small coil/470 pf in series from my HP-3312A sig. generator using only + output set to as high PP output possible and from there to the Ferrite coil.  Output around 27 ma @ 6MHz, second and third peak @ 8 and 10Mhz. Output is 30% higher using square waves.  Have tried every method of grounding, base plate, output, input, generator, etc.  All end up with degraded output.  I even put two diodes back to back in series with the input and it still works...a 50ua meter in the input shows no input current.  I realize we are working with RF here but this is something new.  I will say that the most simplified circuit is the 2-1N914's/cap LED circuit connected directly to +++ lead of the generator but only 6-7 ma that way peak and I suspect the base current without the ferrite effect.

This is most interesting work and I want to say thanks for taking the time to show it to us.  I also enjoyed the other research on your site.

Ben K4ZEP

Hi Ben,
welcome back.
Glad to see you over here and confirming the Dr.Stiffler experiments.

I hope you can also post a few pictures or videos of your experiments.

I havenow got myself a few 74AC14 hex Schmitt trigger ICs that can go up to over 20Mhz
in a simple square wave oscillator and also found an old radio I can rip apart.

Stay tuned for more test results from me too.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: FreeEnergy on October 30, 2007, 10:10:20 PM
Newbie here. My first post. I have been reading this one project since the beginning. I have tried a variation of Dr's project and and up with something absolutely ultra simple. No other components but LEDs, all sort of colors and sizes and different specs. About 50+. All fully bright.

I use only a bread-board, function generator set to around 9Mhz. Only positive probe connected to circuit. No resistors, no transistors, no coils, nothing. One ground wire to neutral of house-power. Function generator powered by house or battery 12v with 300w inverter so that I could make sure there is no connection of the house ground with the probe.

I will post pics and video if anyone is interested. This was very surprising for me since I was looking to replicate this project and start very small and as I was doing I was simplifying even more to the point that only the function gen and LEDs are enough.

Measure power in = 0 current ma. Power draining to ground around 100ma 4+v. Some of the LEDs are in series and some in parallel. Very interesting indeed.

Fausto.

hi and welcome.

please post videos and pictures and diagrams if possible. thanks :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 30, 2007, 10:11:31 PM
@Fausto,

But if you don?t have a coil around a core you don?t have the power amplification,
right ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: SpongeDave on October 30, 2007, 10:12:30 PM
Yep. Tesla.  Been there.  Done that.  Snazzy logo on your page Doktm. ;-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 30, 2007, 11:42:14 PM
welcome dave!

I see you have considerable experiance in this area. Would you care to give us some guidance? Actually this would not be the thread, but if you would like to start your own it would be appreciated. Some of us have studied tesla for decades and are still learning new things all the time.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 31, 2007, 12:28:42 AM
A move coming to YouTube in the next 24 hours. CE Part 9, Reaching the end of the road.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 31, 2007, 12:56:16 AM
@ Dr. Stiffler:

Wow!  I can't wait to see the video.  That looks impressive.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 01:43:46 AM
Hi Stefan,

Not sure exactly how to use this site, bit rusty.  Here is a photo of my first try at this.  I'm attaching a photo, learning here.  15 LED's, show about 27V @ 3 ma in the circuit.  Note red and black lead at top, that is from sig. gen.  Notice only red lead connected.  No ground anywhere in circuit.  It is pretty well what the Good Doctor specified.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 01:49:28 AM
Hi Ben,
many thanks for the pictures.
Looks great and also the new picture from Ron.

Ben, what, if you just use 2 LEDs instead of the 1N914 diodes ?
Does it also work for you as it did for me ?

What, if you just drive the ferrite "transformer" directly without the
choke and cap before it ?
What frequency works best for you ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 01:51:00 AM
P.S. Ben,
do you also get a small neon bulb glowing as Ron has got around touching his core coils ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 31, 2007, 02:04:59 AM
I havenow got myself a few 74AC14 hex Schmitt trigger ICs that can go up to over 20Mhz
in a simple square wave oscillator and also found an old radio I can rip apart.

I have tried that route but to me the frequency isn't stable enough or it is very hard to adjust - was fluctuating all over the place. I tried using trim resistors and caps in a simple circuit and still not good. Do you have some better circuit you are building this on?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 31, 2007, 02:08:06 AM
@Ben

Great work. It looks like you have the free ends of the coils plugged into connector strips. You might want to pull them out and let then float. The capacity between then thru the board will kill some of your power. Holding a neon on the secondary while tuning thru the freq. range will show you the HV point.
Normally the more leds you use the better it likes it and allows the voltage to climb across the coil.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 31, 2007, 02:08:45 AM
Hi Stefan,

Not sure exactly how to use this site, bit rusty.  Here is a photo of my first try at this.  I'm attaching a photo, learning here.  15 LED's, show about 27V @ 3 ma in the circuit.  Note red and black lead at top, that is from sig. gen.  Notice only red lead connected.  No ground anywhere in circuit.  It is pretty well what the Good Doctor specified.

Ben

Hi Ben,

very nice, but have you tried this without the ground lead from the signal generator being so close to the board and to the main red lead?

In my experiments I have noticed that they can interfere with each other and produce anomalous unwanted effects which are not indicative of the true state of the circuit, or it's intended operation.

Just wondering...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 02:20:40 AM
Hi Ben,
many thanks for the pictures.
Looks great and also the new picture from Ron.

Ben, what, if you just use 2 LEDs instead of the 1N914 diodes ?

Operation is severely reduced.  You can drive LED's directly as in a AV plug but this circuit works differently than that in the RF front end

Quote
Does it also work for you as it did for me ?

What, if you just drive the ferrite "transformer" directly without the
choke and cap before it ?

Without the L/C network driving the Ferrite "Transformer", it works very poorly.  That coil/cap. is very important if you look at what happens to the high impedance input waveform.
Quote
What frequency works best for you ?
It totally depends on the resonance of the circuit, my circuit using the coil/cap that I had in my junk box resonates @ around 5.3 Mhz. I also get considerably more output using a square wave rather than a sine wave but both work. I realize my homemade "ferrite" transformer is an abomination (forgive me Dr. Stiffler) but AM ferrite coils ordered off Ebay have not arrived and will not arrive for a few days so make do with what I have)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 02:29:08 AM
Hi Stefan,

Not sure exactly how to use this site, bit rusty.  Here is a photo of my first try at this.  I'm attaching a photo, learning here.  15 LED's, show about 27V @ 3 ma in the circuit.  Note red and black lead at top, that is from sig. gen.  Notice only red lead connected.  No ground anywhere in circuit.  It is pretty well what the Good Doctor specified.

Ben

Hi Ben,

very nice, but have you tried this without the ground lead from the signal generator being so close to the board and to the main red lead?
In my experiments I have noticed that they can interfere with each other and produce anomalous unwanted effects which are not indicative of the true state of the circuit, or it's intended operation.

I just moved it to a woden chair 3 feet from the signal generator and am feeding it with two 2' clip leads in series, (see photo) works the same.  Had to tweek the frequency a few Khz.
There is obviously anomalous couplings in this device relative to large mass objects (our bodies, etc) and is to be expected I think.

Ben

Just wondering...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 02:38:34 AM
@Ben

Great work. It looks like you have the free ends of the coils plugged into connector strips. You might want to pull them out and let then float. The capacity between then thru the board will kill some of your power. Holding a neon on the secondary while tuning thru the freq. range will show you the HV point.
Normally the more leds you use the better it likes it and allows the voltage to climb across the coil.

Darn, I almost missed and your post, went back up to get better idea what is going on.  Your suggestion to let the ends float.  Just pulled them out after the last picture I posted, retuned, considerably more output!!!!!  The impedance in that front end is HIGH! You are also correct on the more LED's in series, the more the better! My junk box only had red ones! I look forward to your Video #9!!!!!

Thanks
Ben

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 31, 2007, 02:40:33 AM
I just moved it to a woden chair 3 feet from the signal generator and am feeding it with two 2' clip leads in series, (see photo) works the same.  Had to tweek the frequency a few Khz.

Thank you for the test, no doubt in my mind now that I have done something at the time that caused interference to happen.

There is obviously anomalous couplings in this device relative to large mass objects (our bodies, etc) and is to be expected I think.

Would be funny if some day it proves that we (our bodies, beings) are the key to everything and causing all kinds of things to happen :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 02:46:44 AM

There is obviously anomalous couplings in this device relative to large mass objects (our bodies, etc) and is to be expected I think.

Would be funny if some day it proves that we (our bodies, beings) are the key to everything and causing all kinds of things to happen :)

[/quote]

Actually it is capacitive coupling between you and me and the front end of the circuit, detunes it as we move around, I'm sure Dr. Stifflier could be much more specific in addressing this problem.....Probably need decoupling chokes in the circuit or shielding......although this is about as simple as you can get.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 31, 2007, 02:49:55 AM
Actually it is capacitive coupling between you and me and the front end of the circuit, detunes it as we move around, I'm sure Dr. Stifflier could be much more specific in addressing this problem.....Probably need decoupling chokes in the circuit or shielding......although this is about as simple as you can get.

Ben

I did notice that happening and it was irking me because my crummy make-shift function generator is not good, so every time I'd adjust the resonant frequency the circuit would go out of resonance when I moved my hand away from the board.

Although my comment was related to more aetheric matters :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 02:57:01 AM
Actually it is capacitive coupling between you and me and the front end of the circuit, detunes it as we move around, I'm sure Dr. Stifflier could be much more specific in addressing this problem.....Probably need decoupling chokes in the circuit or shielding......although this is about as simple as you can get.

Ben

I did notice that happening and it was irking me because my crummy make-shift function generator is not good, so every time I'd adjust the resonant frequency the circuit would go out of resonance when I moved my hand away from the board.

Although my comment was related to more aetheric matters :D

Amigo,
do you use any blocking caps on the power supply lines ?

Use a few 100 nF caps and also a 100 uF cap on the power supply
lines at your circuit, so the power supply voltage stays stable.
This will help to avoid the frequency to get detuned.

This is very important with RF circuits.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 31, 2007, 03:02:58 AM
Amigo,
do you use any blocking caps on the power supply lines ?

Use a few 100 nF caps and also a 100 uF cap on the power supply
lines at your circuit, so the power supply voltage stays stable.
This will help to avoid the frequency to get detuned.

This is very important with RF circuits.

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan,

Actually, I am knowingly using Gel and standard batteries so these kinds of problems shouldn't occur, no?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 03:18:17 AM

Quote

Hi Stefan,

Actually, I am knowingly using Gel and standard batteries so these kinds of problems shouldn't occur, no?

Thanks.

Surely you need this also with just using batteries !

Even more, cause batteries have higher inner resistances !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler-BATTERY ADDED
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 04:46:34 AM
Hi All,

Speaking of batteries, have replaced my 15 LED's with a 5Ah 12VDC Gel Cell battery.  Starting voltage is 12.44 VDC. In 30 min, voltage has risen to 12.47VDC.  Iron vane meter indicates 3+ milliamps in the 2-1N914/meter/battery circuit. Just to see if the current was real, it is!  Just a peanut whistle but still a start!  Will let it run all night, Its late, going to bed.  What fun......Lots to try tomorrow.  Need to build a real driver!

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 05:01:09 AM
I am using a HP 3312a Function generator at 10v PP. One lead connected to the whole circuit and one house ground. The other lead from the Fun.Gen is connected to NOTHING.

Please, if someone will criticize me, please, do a good job because I dont care. It works very nicely thanks to Dr. Stiffler for helping me to get here.

This is a very simplified and interesting thing. I would like to know why it works though if anyone can explain, after replicating only. This is SO SIMPLE that NO ONE  can complain about how to do it!

In this video and pics I did not show input and output measurents but would be willing to show in the next setup, or even better, could someone replicate (since it is so simple) and post it?.

It also works with other function generators such as  PM5131 from Philips at around its maximun 2Mhz. I also did this simple setup without the ground connection using a coil but for simplicity sakes I posted this one with nothing but LEDs and the function generator.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 05:08:54 AM
Picture 2 of 4
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 05:24:20 AM
Picture 3 of 4
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 05:33:21 AM
Picture 4 of 4

(Sorry for some many posts. I dont know Yet how to do everything in one post). I pronnouced Drs Stiffler's name wrongly on the video and my apologies. I totally respect this gentleman for his work and willingness to post his work on the net. I hope we progress in this technology.

For the others that will shoot me for my ignorance, dont waiste your time please. Show me where we are missing the point and the erros on the system. That would be helpfull. Do not ask to change this and that and test this and that. I think that reading 100 posts to get to this point is not helpfull after you critics fill this pages with nothing but criticism. Do it yourself, get some results, some experiences and experimentations and ONLY THAN criticize constructively.

@everyone
I really respect everyones here in this forum concerning real questions and quests for the truth.

I only posted here because I thought what I have shown to be relevant to Dr. Stiffler's work. If i am making grave mistakes about this design, please correct me.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 06:10:34 AM
Thanks for the video and the pictures, plengo.

Maybe your connection cables are already having enough inductance to get the LEDs to resonate at  about 8.5 Mhz
together with the board stray capacitance ?

Please try it with a ferrite choke in series with the signal generator output .

Please test then if you can get a neon bulb to light up,
this will then be a high voltage uptransforming.

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

P.S: You are using 10 Volts peak to peak.
Dr. Stiffler is just using much less inpt voltage and
gets a gain power amplification from his ferrite core-coils...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 06:33:13 AM
Hello hartiberlin ,

I tried, as you asked, with 3 different coils in series with func.gen. (picture shown). All it did is change the frequency that the LEDs light up. Ex:one will be at 900khz, the other at 13MHz and the other at many different points. No brigthness difference. Concerning the neon, no high voltage anywhere. This is as simple as it can get.

Fausto.

ps: you're right. He is showing lots more than just LEDs lighting up, hight voltage and all. My design was just a simple experiment that allows you to use a reasonable amount of power with ONE wire and nothing else and still it is not coming from the FG (at least I think so).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 08:20:45 AM
Hi plengo
and all,
as long, as we don?t get the high voltage from a neon bulb
on another coil end ,so long we will not have any
power amplification.

I just tried a few more different cores and coils  with my function generator
going only up to around 3 Mhz, but all failed
to get me any high voltage on a neon test bulb.

NowI am going to sleep and whenI wake up I will
build up a 74HC14 oscillator which can go up to 20 Mhz with
square waves.
Then I will be able to finally see, if I can get the cores
better to resonate.

As long as I don?t have the right frequencies, there is
really no way to get it done otherwise...

Maybe Ron can still try his circuit on a different core-coil
setup, so we can see, how important this is.
Maybe he is also getting it to run on a standard ferrite
choke or a standard ferrite transformer with the right frequencies ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 08:32:06 AM
Hi Ron,
try to wind your own primary coil with normal copper wire( not litz wire)
around it and check, if this then also resonates so well
and gives you the same output power and neon test bulb glowings ?

What are the requirements to get the power amplification ?
Must it be this special ferrite core you have or or is it its flat shape
or is it the Q bandwidth quality factor of the litz wire coil ?
So, we really need to find this out now to scale the effect up.

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: rickMave on October 31, 2007, 08:36:12 AM
Hi Fausto,  Maybe your function generator ground is actually connected to earth through the chassis and plug of the generator.  If this is the case then you have actually provided the second function generator connection in a roundabout way via your earth lead.  If you measure the resistance between the mains earth pin and the function generator ground with an ohmmeter you may find a direct connection.  Even if there is no DC connection (measured with your meter) there may be a capacitive connection which would do the same job at RF.

I wonder if Dr Stiffler is around to answer a question about his circuit #7 in figures 14, 15, &16?  I notice that there is of order 200mA (RMS) flowing through the earth lead.  This suggests strongly that power is flowing somewhere.  The question I would like to know is - is it flowing into the circuit from the outside, or out of the circuit from the ferrite core etc, or simply resonating back and forth (ie with power factor zero).

A simple measurement that would settle this question would be to simply show as a second trace on the CRO, the voltage on the aluminum pie can (which presumably couples quite well to the circuit via the backing plate etc).  The phase between any voltage appearing on the can and the current passing through the 1 ohm sensing resistor should tell us whether significant power was actually flowing, and in which direction.  It would also be important to know which end of the 1 ohm resistor was connected to the CRO ground for the measurement - as this should be made a common ground for both the voltage and current sense - as we would need to know whether to subtract the current sensing voltage from any voltage appearing on the pie can.  (I am sure you know Dr Stiffler how to keep the CRO grounds as short as possible to avoid inductive pickup - using the little earth rings near the probe tips is best and making sure the common earth point on the resistor is very close to the pie can connection).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 31, 2007, 09:19:09 AM
I will build up a 74HC14 oscillator which can go up to 20 Mhz with
square waves.

Stefan,
The oscillator you are trying to build, will have will not have a 50-50 duty cycle so you will need to put a flip flop after  it and
divide it by 2.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on October 31, 2007, 11:12:47 AM
@ Plengo
I was looking at your last pic and see the ferrite antenna but no coil wrapped around it. In the circuit, it has a 9 turn coil on the outside of the antenna. This being an open ended drive on the coil with square waves. So this would make your circuit different than the one posted which makes it uncomparable to the original. Just what I am seeing.

thaelin
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on October 31, 2007, 11:54:24 AM
@HartiBerlin

Please check this site http://www.sci.fi/~llatva/tekniikka/funcgen/   it is a Low cost 20MHz function generator [using MAX038]

We need to find out rising and falling time of the square wave generator of Herr Dr. Stiffler.

Also do you think VCXO http://www.bliley.com/index_065.htm#VCXO can be utilized as signal generator?

@Herr Dr. Stiffler

1. Can you please try your experiment without using any core? I mean just pull BaFe core out and see the affect?

2. If BaFe is critically important on High Voltage Generation, then Could you please investigate dual or triple BaFe cores?

3.  When play with duty cycle, at which percentage or ratio do you catch maximum Voltage Output?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 02:14:53 PM
Hi All,

I slept on all I did yesterday and did some serious thinking.  What bothers me the most about the experiments with this device is I am trying to prove to my own satisfaction that there is POWER gain in the circuit and not just voltage gain which is obvious.  The reason I say this is as I linearly increase the input drive voltage, I get a linear output change to the 2-1N914's from the Main coil.  While I get a very defined resonant peak from the input circuit, and coupling to the output, I'm not getting the multiplicative power boost from the core.  Possibly my use of an unknown core material is the fault here.

The basic problem I must address is how to determine the base resonant frequency of the ferrite core where it pumps or multiplies the power presented from the series resonant input circuit.  How to determine this frequency must be determine as no core is created equal give or take.

Dr. Stiffler, can you give us any help on how to determine the frequency of any particular core (assuming you have a pumpable core) to get the power gain and then the obvious resulting resonance frequency of the input circuit in this strange little device?  I feel the need to back up and do some basic research into this so I understand what is going on.

Respectfully
Ben K4ZEP

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 31, 2007, 02:38:58 PM
I am going to try to answer a number of questions at once and may or may not direct to a single individual.

@k4zep

Because all coils, signal generators, mounting boards, feed line length and the required L1 being off impedance or having to much inner capacity, there is no magical frequency. The frequency depends on the setup and unless they are replicated exact (as would be in a production line) they will all be different. On your replication I think you added the long feed (single line) in response to all the talk about the generator being coupled back, although this is self defeating. This long line forms a radiator (antenna) and not only does excitation escape, but it can couple back into the circuit out of phase and reduce your output, this is why in later circuits I use an onboard osc. and impedance matching driver.

I am quite surprised at what you stated about a battery maybe charging. I gave direct charging up a long time ago as it so upsets the circuit that it was not a viable direction.

The input impedance is Very High! this is why any measurement is difficult at best. Not using a ground return on the generator causes real pain in getting accurate readings of any series resistance in the single input lead. All test equipment must be floating (portable, battery operated, no mains) otherwise be prepared to go in circles.

Video #9 will show the best evidence on how to see potential results, although don't sit back and expect to jump in at the end. It takes feel and a personal understanding of the circuits to move on.

@All

I do not want to offend anyone, but I am not here to perform your experiments. If you want to go off with other coils and not use my circuits, you of course are free to do so. But it is not my research direction to do experiments that are not in my plans and end goal.

I hope you all do not forget about the first videos where the circuit is driving an incandescent light. This circuit is worth looking at as well as LEDS. The incandescent circuit will produce Heat in a load, where the LEDS cool. If you wish to stay with light, stay tuned, yet it takes few parts to also look at the other circuit once you have a working LED system.

Two hypothesis at this time exist on how the LED system is working, one will stay withing the Laws of Thermodynamics and the other (mine) will not, yet when looked at in total does end up not being a violation if looked at from the back forward, more on that later on my web site.

The circuit when properly designed emits a very interesting radiation field, this can be explored by probing the surroundings with a sense coil on an oscope. For those into the EE mathematics you will see at once that this field is not standard in its fall off from the radiator. This work is best left to those wanting to put some addition work into it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MT on October 31, 2007, 03:16:03 PM
Hi guys,

i just stumble upon LTC1799 low cost precision oscillator square wave. Costs 6.40euros at Conrad. Frequency range from 1khz to 30Mhz. One supply voltage ~5volts, one resistor to set frequency. 5pin package.

all the best,
MT
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 04:30:58 PM
@Thaelin
you right. I only put the coils because someone asked. But my design is ONLY to show that one wire IS powering the whole circuit. No high voltage. This is not a replication of Dr. Stiffler. My input current is zero (right at the one probe from the func gen) and the output is about .40ma (less than one milliamp) at the ground cable.

@rickMave ,
Quote
Hi Fausto,  Maybe your function generator ground is actually connected to earth through the chassis and plug of the generator.  If this is the case then you have actually provided the second function generator connection in a roundabout way via your earth lead.  If you measure the resistance between the mains earth pin and the function generator ground with an ohmmeter you may find a direct connection.  Even if there is no DC connection (measured with your meter) there may be a capacitive connection which would do the same job at RF
Hello rickMave. No there is absolutely no connection between the func gen and the ground or anywhere. On the youtube video i am using the house power BUT I also tried with the func gen being fed by a battery via an inverter which makes the whole thing an isolated circuit. Besides if I connect the other probe to the ground cable and and not use the ground the LEDs will not light. The one wire with the high frequency and the ground is the secret. In another variation of this designed I used a coil and no ground connection to achieve the same effect (LEDs lighthing up) and It showed some RF interference in my other equipments.

This circuit is only to show the one wire trasmission of "something" with almost no current being used. In other words, this circuit (which ANYONE can replicate in 10minutes, no excuses) shows one point about Dr Stiffler design.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 04:38:22 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Thank you for your most excellent reply.  I realize you must be inundated with question.  You have given me more direction in reproducing your circuits and I thank you.

Without a good driver on the board, the battery charging circuit only put about 4 ma into the battery so while it works, it does not seem practical at this time.  I am very interested in the ground driven circuit with no external excitation.

I look forward to your next video.

Thanks again so very much.

Ben K4ZEP

I am going to try to answer a number of questions at once and may or may not direct to a single individual.

@k4zep

Because all coils, signal generators, mounting boards, feed line length and the required L1 being off impedance or having to much inner capacity, there is no magical frequency. The frequency depends on the setup and unless they are replicated exact (as would be in a production line) they will all be different. On your replication I think you added the long feed (single line) in response to all the talk about the generator being coupled back, although this is self defeating. This long line forms a radiator (antenna) and not only does excitation escape, but it can couple back into the circuit out of phase and reduce your output, this is why in later circuits I use an onboard osc. and impedance matching driver.

I am quite surprised at what you stated about a battery maybe charging. I gave direct charging up a long time ago as it so upsets the circuit that it was not a viable direction.

The input impedance is Very High! this is why any measurement is difficult at best. Not using a ground return on the generator causes real pain in getting accurate readings of any series resistance in the single input lead. All test equipment must be floating (portable, battery operated, no mains) otherwise be prepared to go in circles.

Video #9 will show the best evidence on how to see potential results, although don't sit back and expect to jump in at the end. It takes feel and a personal understanding of the circuits to move on.

@All

I do not want to offend anyone, but I am not here to perform your experiments. If you want to go off with other coils and not use my circuits, you of course are free to do so. But it is not my research direction to do experiments that are not in my plans and end goal.

I hope you all do not forget about the first videos where the circuit is driving an incandescent light. This circuit is worth looking at as well as LEDS. The incandescent circuit will produce Heat in a load, where the LEDS cool. If you wish to stay with light, stay tuned, yet it takes few parts to also look at the other circuit once you have a working LED system.

Two hypothesis at this time exist on how the LED system is working, one will stay withing the Laws of Thermodynamics and the other (mine) will not, yet when looked at in total does end up not being a violation if looked at from the back forward, more on that later on my web site.

The circuit when properly designed emits a very interesting radiation field, this can be explored by probing the surroundings with a sense coil on an oscope. For those into the EE mathematics you will see at once that this field is not standard in its fall off from the radiator. This work is best left to those wanting to put some addition work into it.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 05:48:12 PM
Now Ron?s new video is online and he makes
me very exciting to see,if he can disconnect the battery
and the LEDs stay ON.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 06:06:08 PM
Now Ron?s new video is online and he makes
me very exciting to see,if he can disconnect the battery
and the LEDs stay ON.

Ron has a sense of humor......waiting for #10 now......talk about a clifhanger!  How about disconnecting the battery AND the ground?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 31, 2007, 06:12:28 PM
Now Ron?s new video is online and he makes
me very exciting to see,if he can disconnect the battery
and the LEDs stay ON.

Ron has a sense of humor......waiting for #10 now......talk about a clifhanger!  How about disconnecting the battery AND the ground?
Of course I'll disconnect the ground. It's only there to T off certain people that are look for shells to hide under. Thought it was time to do some feedback as they have nothing better to do.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 06:15:45 PM
Yes, Ron?s humour makes me very exciting now ! ;) ;D

What about disconnecting the battery and the ground wire and
put all the circuit again in the alu pan and just only watch through the
hole again, if the circuit still runs ?

This would be the definate answer, that there is no
power coming in via the 50KWatts AM radio station not too far away...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 31, 2007, 06:31:02 PM
Yes, Ron?s humour makes me very exciting now ! ;) ;D

What about disconnecting the battery and the ground wire and
put all the circuit again in the alu pan and just only watch through the
hole again, if the circuit still runs ?

This would be the definate answer, that there is no
power coming in via the 50KWatts AM radio station not too far away...

@hartiberlin
Okay you have insulted my ability for the last time on this damn RF issue. I'm off your list.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 06:54:23 PM
Ron,
I am sorry.
It was not meant to be an insult, but just to check for Murphy?s law
with the wording:

"What can go wrong will go wrong..."

There really could be some kind of induction into your ground cable
via the about 1Meter long ground cable,
especially, when there is a 50 KWatts AM station around your neighbourhood.

Okay, it might not be lamba/2 or Lambda/4
for the right voltage, but you never know.

As you never stated exactly, what you did to
be sure that this was not the case, I just wanted to point this
out.
I believe you that there is a power amplification coming through the
coil-core, but for the hardcore skeptics on this board,
it would be wise to disconect the ground wire and
do again the alu pan faraday cage test then.

So I am sorry again, when I have hurt your feelings,but I
guess this is just a missunderstanding as we don?t know
what measurements you have already done to
know, that it is not a RF induction.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 10:43:33 PM
Now Ron?s new video is on line and he makes
me very exciting to see,if he can disconnect the battery
and the LEDs stay ON.

Ron has a sense of humor......waiting for #10 now......talk about a cliffhanger!  How about disconnecting the battery AND the ground?
Of course I'll disconnect the ground. It's only there to T off certain people that are look for shells to hide under. Thought it was time to do some feedback as they have nothing better to do.

Dr. Stiffler, I hope you don't leave, it is most refreshing having so knowledgeable a person to watch at work..  The reason I mentioned the ground is because of that fascinating circuit in your original group of schematics that had two coils, two sets of LED's and was ground driven, with .5 amp peak in the ground wire!!  Now that got my attention.

Your latest device with the on-board Colpitts Osc. is most refreshing!  There is so much to experiment with and so much to learn, I'm spinning my wheels as fast as I can.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on October 31, 2007, 11:18:26 PM
Dr. Stiffler has done an experiment with all the device inside a metal container, it was clear that the LED was remaining on ... If Stefan has some doubts it is good that he places them with clearness so that Stiffler can define a new set of experiments. However, if the phenomenon described by Stiffler is reproduceable, it will not delay to come outside other. Stiffler has the advantage to have done experiments for many years and therefore he obtains better results.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 01, 2007, 12:18:50 AM
Nice flurry of activity in just one day, I'm glad doc stuck around when I asked him to, but I'm worried with the last developments he won't be coming back :(

@Stefan

For GOD'S SAKE what are you doing man? As a moderator and an admin even, you should be the first one to set an example not to do what you are doing.

When someone starts a thread on any subject, posts in that thread usually stay on that subject and if they don't MODS make sure they do. Granted, some digressions are permitted but in this case you do not go banging on all doors insulting the person making the claim by questioning their intelligence, especially in a situation like this where the goal and purpose of all of us being here is to find alternative sources of energy. We are all on the same side here, if that's not possible then we might as well disband and go our own merry ways.

If an OP starts a thread and makes a claim (or an original inventor is brought into the thread), then discloses a principle and practical replication guide, he's asking everyone to try to replicate his claim and report back on the success (or failure). Instead there were half a dozen other attempts in butchering the original claim (one by yourself included) which swayed from the original claim ultimately leading to a disaster as evident from the last post by Dr.Stiffler.

To make matters worse, latest posts have nothing in common with the original claim and do not belong in this thread whatsoever. Yes it's cute to see dozens of LEDs light up on a pulsed DC or work in any other way, but that's not the principle of the claim. You as a mod/admin should step in and do your "job" - moderate - tell the posters to stay on topic or kindly start their own threads.

All that has been accomplished here was bomb the thread after 26 pages and make the inventor leave it, insulted.

@all

I'm sorry to preach about this, but it seems to me many of you do not know or understand what "Netiquette" is or how to act accordingly. Have you all just learnt about the Internet recently or what?

I will repeat for absent Dr.Stiffler: The main claim circuit principle (to best of my understanding) is based on a decoupling link of C1 and L1 in the primary - they are mandatory. You do not remove them and plug ground or signal generator without those components. That's not the basic claim and you are doing a dis-service in your feeble attempts of replication without them.

Once you stand upright then you can walk, so once you achieve the basic circuit operation as outlined in the primary claim, then you can move on to removing parts and experimenting and posting your findings here. Just because Dr.Stiffler has removed them in his other circuits does not mean that everyone should jump in and butcher the circuit out. He had said that he expects everyone to first replicate the basic circuit and report on their findings and positive outcome.

Otherwise start a new thread and call it "Dr.Stiffler's circuit - modification experiment"...

My 2c.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: rickMave on November 01, 2007, 02:35:23 AM
Dr. Stiffler has done an experiment with all the device inside a metal container, it was clear that the LED was remaining on ...
Is this true?  The video I saw with the circuit in a metal container was not all inside - it had a lead coming out of it and going to earth.  None of his circuits seem to be able to work without some similar sort of "earth" or aerial.  We know from Dr Stifflers measurement on circuit #7 in figure 15 and 16 that there may be ~200mA RF flowing in that earth lead.  That would be enough to light ~20 LEDs in parallel (10 pointing one way and 10 the other) if there was enough voltage also on the lead.  So maybe the circuit #7 would light an additional 20 LEDs wired in this earth lead!  Unfortunately Dr Stiffler did not see fit to look for a voltage there.

If only he could provide this measurement (as I requested earlier) then we could know what power flow this current represents.  But maybe that is part of the tease to get others experimenting.

Maybe even he himself doesn't want the answer to that question - it might be very discouraging to find that all the power was flowing in from outside.  But I think that such a strange effect would be just as interesting to investigate and probably just as useful from a power generation point of view. Who cares where the power is coming from as long as it is easy and free!

Such an easy measurement, and so useful an answer.  How sad that he is gone now.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 03:52:11 AM
Dr. Stiffler has done an experiment with all the device inside a metal container, it was clear that the LED was remaining on ...
Is this true?  The video I saw with the circuit in a metal container was not all inside - it had a lead coming out of it and going to earth.  None of his circuits seem to be able to work without some similar sort of "earth" or aerial.  We know from Dr Stifflers measurement on circuit #7 in figure 15 and 16 that there may be ~200mA RF flowing in that earth lead.  That would be enough to light ~20 LEDs in parallel (10 pointing one way and 10 the other) if there was enough voltage also on the lead.  So maybe the circuit #7 would light an additional 20 LEDs wired in this earth lead!  Unfortunately Dr Stiffler did not see fit to look for a voltage there.

If only he could provide this measurement (as I requested earlier) then we could know what power flow this current represents.  But maybe that is part of the tease to get others experimenting.

Maybe even he himself doesn't want the answer to that question - it might be very discouraging to find that all the power was flowing in from outside.  But I think that such a strange effect would be just as interesting to investigate and probably just as useful from a power generation point of view. Who cares where the power is coming from as long as it is easy and free!

Such an easy measurement, and so useful an answer.  How sad that he is gone now.

I sure hope he keeps on with this at least on his home site and YouTube anyway.  I have this weird suspicion that the whole device in Circuit 7, Fig. 15, 16 is acting as sort of a top loaded antenna reference to ground and somehow, the LEDs and coils are a form of Osc. if you read all he has to say about that circuit!, Just look at the scope shot, the damn thing is burst oscillating.  I also suspect if you added a 3rd coil set same as L1/L2 at the top of the schematic and fed it in reverse with a simple long wire broadband antenna, output would be shall we say LARGE? I have also seen the circuit before on a crazy Texans site who said he generated Kw's of energy from an outside antenna referenced to ground!  He didn't have a clue as to how it worked, just said it did.......at the time I thought he was nuts.  I also read an article several years ago about an "energy sucking antenna", I think this circuit and its brothers are basically this!  More "Power" to this type of circuit........What a Pun!

Remember what Ex President Clinton said Ron when he was heckled..................."If you will shut up and listen, I'll talk" or something like that!

Later,

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 01, 2007, 06:47:33 AM

Dr Stiffler,
This list does not belong to one person. On the whole, I would say people on this thread are fascinated by your circuit and are all intelligent enthusiasts and naturally have questions.  I know you have a lot more tricks up your sleeve with this so, where would you direct your fans?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 01, 2007, 07:13:54 AM
@all

A certain Russian scientist called Stanislav Avramenko in 1993 has performed an energy transmission experiment without return to mass, that is with an only cable, with very low losses and very high energy density respect the conductor's area.
The experiment is very simple, from a side is a generator with perticolar characteristics which finishes with an only thread, this, much thin and completely isolated by earth, there it takes the current (if we can so call her) towards the utilzer. A rectifier system by fast diodes and a condenser complete everything. Some time ago the experiment was much advertised, French Jean Louis Naudin has been repeated and documented by a researcher (JLN).

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm

Since the beginning of the Stiffler experiment I have thought to a similitude between this experiment with Avramenko experiment. This similitude can help us to reflect on the characteristics of the experiment and the better one road to reproduce and optimize it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 01, 2007, 07:37:03 AM
@ All

I add also the USA Stanislav Avramenko patent. Must however pay attention to the thin explored fact that she has never been at the end the Avramenko experiment. For instance few researchers have worried of the fact that the thread of transmission of the current can be extremely thin, it calls of one little passage of electrons.
This would confirm the experiment with an oscillator and the 9V battery. I would like to know whether other have done the experiment with the oscillator and 9 V battery and they have observed a greater duration of the battery.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 01, 2007, 08:57:55 AM
@all

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm

Since the beginning of the Stiffler experiment I have thought to a similitude between this experiment with Avramenko experiment. This similitude can help us to reflect on the characteristics of the experiment and the better one road to reproduce and optimize it.

So Do You Think Dr. Stiffler actually replicated a Russian Scientist work?

Dr. Stiffler, you are a good man World will know you as a good man, life is short and you have very good respect and honor within this international community. You have very creative soul and please try to be more open...,

All

Please check http://www.cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~wwieser/elec/oscillator/LTC1799/ adress for a very compact low cost oscillator based on LTC1799. this design is a small footprint 50% duty cycle square wave oscillator with variable frequency from 10kHz to 30MHz

Best Regards from Turkey
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 01, 2007, 12:07:06 PM
I want to remind you that Stiffler calls his experiment (http://www.drstiffler.com/): "Single Wire Excitation and Amplification", Avramenko entitles his patent as: "Method and apparatus for single line electrical trasmission". The difference of the two names is born of the fact that Avramenko concentrates his research in a system of current transmission with only one wire, Stiffler, tries the transmission of the current and also to obtain his amplification.

There are very much difference between the Stiffler experiment and Avramenko experiment, for instance:

1. The frequency of the oscillator in the Stiffler experiment is 1000 times more high.
2. The form of the envelopments that Stiffler uses for L2-L3 is completely different. The Stiffler envelopments have an only connected terminal, the other is left free!
3. How for the wires which transports the current in the Avramenko experiment, the L2 thickness is extremely thin and is theoretically not sufficient for the current necessary to power 50 LEDs (50 * 20 mA = 1 A).

@plengo
Is it possible repeat your experiment using a much thinner wire which connects the generator of signals with the device and verify his heating for Joule effect? Actually the adopted disposition in your experiment is the most like that of Avramenko, however it lacks the transformer.

@k4zep
Like the experiment of Stiffler, but with a few not clear differences, can you do us an electric scheme?

@amigo
Your experiment is the several equal to the one realized by Stiffler with the oscillator, have fact of the progress?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tinu on November 01, 2007, 12:12:47 PM
...
3. How for the wires which transports the current in the Avramenko experiment, the L2 thickness is extremely thin and is theoretically not sufficient for the current necessary to power 50 LEDs (50 * 20 mA = 1 A).

What?!
The LEDs are series connected, aren't they?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Joh70 on November 01, 2007, 12:21:09 PM
as long as a power supply or external powered signal generator is connected, i beleave nothing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: emitremmah on November 01, 2007, 02:09:02 PM
I am but a simpleton. I am still at a loss when I see one lead of a LED connected and it lights. I have laways been instructed that a circuit must come from somewhere and go somewhere. It doesn't. It is being lit by back EMF caused by the signal generator/oscilator because it seems to me that if you have a sine wave that the top is positive and the bottom negative then you are actually reversing the flow of electrons when you cross the base line. so what you are doing is then just exciting the electrons and that is enough?

Lost in the space between my ears.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 01, 2007, 02:10:56 PM
Ops... :o
3. How for the wires which transports the current in the Avramenko experiment, the L2 thickness is extremely thin and is theoretically not sufficient for the current necessary to power 50 LEDs (50 * 20 mA = 1 A).
Is true... Clear this point...
But a little problem, why the LED or coil not burn ?
@Stiffler
Some time are the LED or Coil burned ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 01, 2007, 02:17:50 PM
@All

I am trying to understand and analyse the principle behind Dr. Stiffler's circuit in depth;

http://www.byronnewenergy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ambient_Energy_Collection_Device
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Ambient_Energy_Collection_Device

Dr. Stiffler has a lot of know how on this, und as I can understand he wants to go step by step and speak same language in the end. So it is very important to understand and analyze his previous videos and circuits.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 02:35:22 PM
Hi All,

Well the troops are stirred up for sure.  Lets clear up a few things.  First, go to his site and read the whole article on his series of experiments and a lot of things will be pretty clear.  I believe Dr. Stiffler has a few theories that he is developing to explain how these devices work......time will tell.

The LED's are in series.  Current in my device is more in the 3-4 Ma. area.  I will know more when I get the correct coils.  Using his coil, I don't know what current he can force out of the packets of energy pumped through the 1N914's or equivalent.  Total voltage drop across the string times the current is the power developed in the string.

This is probably the best series of experiments using extremely high impedance and  possibly longitudinal waves in the RF region that I have ever seen!  Its all about matching impedances and something strange in the Barium Ferrite coil/coil configuration.  Theoretically, it gets complicated fast, way above me!

I want to thank the gentleman in Turkey for the heads up info on the LTC1799.  Sure wished they made it in standard configuration.  Does anyone make a small board/Osc. using this device out there as this should be a perfect driver for this device?  A resistor, a chip and a switch, how much more simple can it get and VERY low power too!!!!!  As is, you are going to need a magnifying glass to build this thing, my old eyes and shaky hands might be able to do it!  This should drive directly off a rectified output of a Stiffler device and with good decoupling, feed back and hence self run?  Hope so, sure would be fun to see it in my lifetime.

Anyway, lots of work to do.  BS is cheep, building and making it work is where the rubber meets the road.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 02:52:21 PM
Hi All,

Just one more thing.  WHAT IF IT IS POWERED BY RF or whatever portion of the bands of energy that are all around us and it is tuned to(Sea of energy!)?

If It can "suck" or produce X amounts of energy out of the background RF/AF/LF noise around me, who cares..........................It has to suck something from somewhere and/or produce it via excitation of the core in the coil.  I'm more of a results type person.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Joh70 on November 01, 2007, 03:19:51 PM
if it sucks energy from RF the MIBs come to your house an switch of the magic lights very soon. They can measure it without coming in your house (when above hundreds of Watts or so - living such nearby makes people sick). Less RF-power decelerates signal strength of the station resulting in poorer radio quality. But maybe it is not RF!? Stiffler always states that. So then what is it? I cannot see what prevents it consuming power somehow from the supply or signalgenerator-supply!!! I think its possible, that a stimulated core can produce energy. In this case: Until it is not running completely disconnected by its own, i beleave nothing - but hope the best.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 01, 2007, 03:30:03 PM
But maybe is not RF!? Stiffler always states that.

1. We all might know the Stanley Meyer, Bob Boyce and Newman circuits, Meyer and Boyce directed HV kicks to electrolyzer cell, they have utilized thoze anomalous kicks as highly efficient electrolysis,

2. Where as Newman and Bedini used those kicks as magnetic explosions to utilize as mechanical movements.

3. I beleive Dr. Stiffler is now utilizing HV peaks or kicks as BACK EMF to the primary side back. I call it hydraulic bauncing effect during electromagnetic explosion and implosion processes. I beleive this is the SECRET of Herr Dr. Stiffler.

This effect can be further increased via playing with the core design. That's why I have asked Dr Stiffler to remove BaFe core just once. But he did not, inner and outer coupling of the core may be enormously important.

So if BaFe has the coupling affect, then we need to put spare BaFe cores around ? Am I correct Dr. Stiffler?

Best Regards from Turkey!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tinu on November 01, 2007, 03:48:44 PM
if it sucks energy from RF the MIBs come to your house an switch of the magic lights very soon. They can measure it without coming in your house (when above hundreds of Watts or so - living such nearby makes people sick). Less RF-power decelerates signal strength of the station resulting in poorer radio quality. But maybe it is not RF!? Stiffler always states that. So then what is it? I cannot see what prevents it consuming power somehow from the supply or signalgenerator-supply!!! I think its possible, that a stimulated core can produce energy. In this case: Until it is not running completely disconnected by its own, i beleave nothing - but hope the best.

Believe nothing if you like but it?s more then nothing there. It?s something and it is surely exciting.
I felt posting the above in exchange because I was also among the firsts questioning about the RF issue. (hmm, detractors?)

However, until now despite the almost unbelievable visual impact, one has to remember that the overall power is maybe at 0.8-1W. This is a fact, which is clearly achievable using one wire, conventional electric theory. Nonetheless, the work is still in progress. So any verdict would be just a bad guess. And probably like many others here, I am quietly watching the advancement, and also still waiting to see some solid proof about longitudinal waves (which imho do not exist) and of course about OU/FE. This would be science. Good science. And I?ll take my hat off in front of you Dr. Stiffler if you can keep the good road on. But it seems we are now in a dead end and I don?t entirely understand Dr. Stiffler at this point. Almost everything is on the table to show at least an estimate of power balance: dc in, light out (and some loses, of course) and to go solid. But subjects are taken personally and questions are taken as insults. Why?

Anyway: user hartiberlin, you have disturbed this thread. Please ban yourself for at least a weak! Lol
(This is just to make a point about banning. By the way, how is Humbugger?)

Last, but not least: Ben, I remember you are an excellent experimentalist. Glad you are here! Hope the old story about Mike/Bedini is over and some serious subjects may now be brought around the table.

Tinu
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 01, 2007, 04:05:18 PM
@abassign
I will repeat it with a very thin wire as you requested and you're right I think my experiment is very indeed like Avramenko. I also tried Dr Stiffler experiment and it worked somehow. I could light a few leds and I also got the high voltage with the neon light, BUT, my setup works better so far (still testing different things).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: SpongeDave on November 01, 2007, 04:44:09 PM

one has to remember that the overall power is maybe at 0.8-1W. This is a fact, which is clearly achievable using one wire, conventional electric theory.

Congrats, you have a crystal (light emitting) diode radio for a shortwave station in Mexico.
Run it in a Faraday cage with no external wires and report back to me. ;-)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 05:06:38 PM
@All

Let me post some worst case figures for you to look over. My single coil, driven by a Colpitts Oscillator drawing 5mA into an impedance converter drawing 20mA from 12 volts.

12 x 2.5E-2 = 0.300 or 300 mW input.

Driving 75 LEDS in series with a forward drop each of 3.2 -3.8 volts with 4mA in the series chain. Lets use the low forward drop;

75 x 3.2 = 240 volts therefore 240 x 4E-3 = 0.960 or 960 mW

Do you all understand? and this is worst case.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 01, 2007, 05:19:32 PM
@plengo  (Fausto... is more simpatic)

Thanks for doing the test with the thin wire, but how much was thin ?
I have verified your scheme, you really have a set of LEDs fed in parallel, so the current should not be little. When you use a thin wire, can you measure the current with the oscilloscope ?
Is it possible do you tries with longer wire, at least 2/3 mt. and you do again the test.

Best regards,
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 05:29:25 PM
@samedsoft

Friend! I enjoy the acronym. How is the family doing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 01, 2007, 05:34:11 PM
Ron
With 28 posts you have made it to Elite member. I think Stefan is sorry!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 05:46:21 PM
Ron
With 28 posts you have made it to Elite member. I think Stefan is sorry!

That's not the reason, I was going to start a closed thread until I found that some decent people do exist on this list.

Stefan and I go back many years and this is not the first time we have butted heads, Right Stefan?

But lets not go there.......

Has anyone seen the postings on Vortex where I am now referred to as a Con-Artist?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 01, 2007, 05:59:05 PM

Has anyone seen the postings on Vortex where I am now referred to as a Con-Artist?

I think people are saying they are suspicious because you get ticked off when people mention that this or that mundane explanation may account for the power.

Maybe you just have a short fuse when criticized, but you can't blame them. After all, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I hope you will keep right on going with this. I'm looking forward to what the solar panel will produce.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 06:21:19 PM

Has anyone seen the postings on Vortex where I am now referred to as a Con-Artist?

I think people are saying they are suspicious because you get ticked off when people mention that this or that mundane explanation may account for the power.

Maybe you just have a short fuse when criticized, but you can't blame them. After all, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I hope you will keep right on going with this. I'm looking forward to what the solar panel will produce.

Suspicion and Con-Artist are to very different points of view!!

I do not apologize to anyone for my attitude as I have paid my dues and spent most of my life trying to absorb knowledge. If I get frustrated by those that might want to avoid the work and be handed something without effort on their part then indeed I do get livid.

This list and the people that have and are working on replications may very well be the people that make a difference for billions of people, which I can not do without their help. I am most adamant about a step at a time and not wasting time going into some radio transmitter myth.

Those that wish to, lets move forward, be a part of History, don't sit back and wait for #10, it can not come without support by the simple replications and removal of the basic objections. Scientists do not want to touch this. It should only takes days, not months or years once you commit and do.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 06:29:06 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

DAMN good to see you did quit us.  I agree with your measurements and thank you for the "worst case" numbers. I understand perfectly. My lousy board appears to be running at about a worse case as it can but the current and voltages I see across the LEDs agree with your numbers perfectly.  I'm sort of busy today with family matters so experimenting time is short.  More of that tonight.

It would appear that with the basic ON BOARD RF Osc. driver, you have the ability to generate 3X as much energy through/into the LEDs as the Osc. uses.  Your numbers are absolutely worst case! A really good question that you have addressed before and is very difficult to measure, is:  How much of that 300 mw do you actual use in the conversion process?  From what I can tell, it is almost nil!  I also assume the impedance converter you are talking about is a step up RF transformer to get as high a p/p RF to the BF xformer.  In you basic L/C input circuit, this seems to do that also at resonance.  Keep up the great work!

Now how much current @ 12VDC does that darn solar panel put out when illuminated via thos LEDs?  There is so much loss here.   I know patience is a virtue!

Ben

@All

Let me post some worst case figures for you to look over. My single coil, driven by a Colpitts Oscillator drawing 5mA into an impedance converter drawing 20mA from 12 volts.

12 x 2.5E-2 = 0.300 or 300 mW input.

Driving 75 LEDS in series with a forward drop each of 3.2 -3.8 volts with 4mA in the series chain. Lets use the low forward drop;

75 x 3.2 = 240 volts therefore 240 x 4E-3 = 0.960 or 960 mW

Do you all understand? and this is worst case.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 06:41:14 PM
Hi Tinu,

Glad to see you around again too and as I recall you aren't no slouch at expirementation either.  Lets help make this thing work.  Replications is the best form of flattery for any inventor and puts a lot of BS to rest.  Got lots of part on order to try and make this thing fly now that I have a slight feel for what is going on!  Remember Dr. Stiffler has been working on this for Many years!!!  It all takes time.............................Bedini is another story at another time....life goes on.

Ben

if it sucks energy from RF the MIBs come to your house an switch of the magic lights very soon. They can measure it without coming in your house (when above hundreds of Watts or so - living such nearby makes people sick). Less RF-power decelerates signal strength of the station resulting in poorer radio quality. But maybe it is not RF!? Stiffler always states that. So then what is it? I cannot see what prevents it consuming power somehow from the supply or signalgenerator-supply!!! I think its possible, that a stimulated core can produce energy. In this case: Until it is not running completely disconnected by its own, i beleave nothing - but hope the best.

Believe nothing if you like but it?s more then nothing there. It?s something and it is surely exciting.
I felt posting the above in exchange because I was also among the firsts questioning about the RF issue. (hmm, detractors?)

However, until now despite the almost unbelievable visual impact, one has to remember that the overall power is maybe at 0.8-1W. This is a fact, which is clearly achievable using one wire, conventional electric theory. Nonetheless, the work is still in progress. So any verdict would be just a bad guess. And probably like many others here, I am quietly watching the advancement, and also still waiting to see some solid proof about longitudinal waves (which imho do not exist) and of course about OU/FE. This would be science. Good science. And I?ll take my hat off in front of you Dr. Stiffler if you can keep the good road on. But it seems we are now in a dead end and I don?t entirely understand Dr. Stiffler at this point. Almost everything is on the table to show at least an estimate of power balance: dc in, light out (and some loses, of course) and to go solid. But subjects are taken personally and questions are taken as insults. Why?

Anyway: user hartiberlin, you have disturbed this thread. Please ban yourself for at least a weak! Lol
(This is just to make a point about banning. By the way, how is Humbugger?)

Last, but not least: Ben, I remember you are an excellent experimentalist. Glad you are here! Hope the old story about Mike/Bedini is over and some serious subjects may now be brought around the table.

Tinu

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 07:09:59 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

DAMN good to see you did quit us.  I agree with your measurements and thank you for the "worst case" numbers. I understand perfectly. My lousy board appears to be running at about a worse case as it can but the current and voltages I see across the LEDs agree with your numbers perfectly.  I'm sort of busy today with family matters so experimenting time is short.  More of that tonight.

It would appear that with the basic ON BOARD RF Osc. driver, you have the ability to generate 3X as much energy through/into the LEDs as the Osc. uses.  Your numbers are absolutely worst case! A really good question that you have addressed before and is very difficult to measure, is:  How much of that 300 mw do you actual use in the conversion process?  From what I can tell, it is almost nil!  I also assume the impedance converter you are talking about is a step up RF transformer to get as high a p/p RF to the BF xformer.  In you basic L/C input circuit, this seems to do that also at resonance.  Keep up the great work!

Now how much current @ 12VDC does that darn solar panel put out when illuminated via thos LEDs?  There is so much loss here.   I know patience is a virtue!

Ben

@All

Let me post some worst case figures for you to look over. My single coil, driven by a Colpitts Oscillator drawing 5mA into an impedance converter drawing 20mA from 12 volts.

12 x 2.5E-2 = 0.300 or 300 mW input.

Driving 75 LEDS in series with a forward drop each of 3.2 -3.8 volts with 4mA in the series chain. Lets use the low forward drop;

75 x 3.2 = 240 volts therefore 240 x 4E-3 = 0.960 or 960 mW

Do you all understand? and this is worst case.
@k4zep

You are correct that it is very difficult to measure input, that is a sticking point with the so called geniuses. Let me address something in this same sentence  so it will not stand out and get all worked up. I have many times seen the energy flowing back into the impedance driver from the coil. More energy than going in, but wasted as it is dumped. So do not be at all surprised if you see this condition, your not nuts.

No, what I mean by impedance driver is the MOSFET that drives the coil that is in turn driven by the oscillator. The load on the oscillator if you tried to direct couple it is to great and it will not stay in oscillation and/or tune properly. The MOSFET forms the buffer between the oscillator and the coil and also better matched the coil input.

The solar cell, well I have been trying to keep my web site in sync and it is close, but still catching up. That first solar cell is a JOKE and I told the manufacture as much. In full sun the TOY could only generate 30mA. I do have the start of the info on my site at the bottom of the page. In short, to make it work you will need the best cell you can get, I will give examples and you will need to play with some small mirrors to use all the light, but that is later right?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: SpongeDave on November 01, 2007, 07:55:49 PM
I do not apologize to anyone for my attitude as I have paid my dues and spent most of my life trying to absorb knowledge. If I get frustrated by those that might want to avoid the work and be handed something without effort on their part then indeed I do get livid.

This list and the people that have and are working on replications may very well be the people that make a difference for billions of people, which I can not do without their help. I am most adamant about a step at a time and not wasting time going into some radio transmitter myth.

Those that wish to, lets move forward, be a part of History, don't sit back and wait for #10, it can not come without support by the simple replications and removal of the basic objections. Scientists do not want to touch this. It should only takes days, not months or years once you commit and do.

Thank you, you are generous to post your research so openly, and I agree with you on the difference it will make.  Do you place all of your research in the public domain, and relinquish any claim on the apparatus and its variations?  You say "simple replications" and you are even careful not to frame the 'validators' as 'contributors', but what about those who stumble upon more complex improvements.  Is not your work an improvement on anothers?  Isn't your device an accident?  Can you explain the principle of its operation?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 08:24:13 PM
I do not apologize to anyone for my attitude as I have paid my dues and spent most of my life trying to absorb knowledge. If I get frustrated by those that might want to avoid the work and be handed something without effort on their part then indeed I do get livid.

This list and the people that have and are working on replications may very well be the people that make a difference for billions of people, which I can not do without their help. I am most adamant about a step at a time and not wasting time going into some radio transmitter myth.

Those that wish to, lets move forward, be a part of History, don't sit back and wait for #10, it can not come without support by the simple replications and removal of the basic objections. Scientists do not want to touch this. It should only takes days, not months or years once you commit and do.

Thank you, you are generous to post your research so openly, and I agree with you on the difference it will make.  Do you place all of your research in the public domain, and relinquish any claim on the apparatus and its variations?  You say "simple replications" and you are even careful not to frame the 'validators' as 'contributors', but what about those who stumble upon more complex improvements.  Is not your work an improvement on anothers?  Isn't your device an accident?  Can you explain the principle of its operation?

>> Do you place all of your research in the public domain, and relinquish any claim on the apparatus and its variations?
I most certainly DO!, if I had planned to make money from it you would never have been told about it.

>>You say "simple replications" and you are even careful not to frame the 'validators' as 'contributors', but what about those who stumble upon more complex improvements
Oh a linguist you are, how can we twist words. You know exactly what I stated. How can anyone construe this to mean I would take any achievement from anyone else?

>>Is not your work an improvement on anothers?
Some others and I make full disclosure on my web site.

>> Isn't your device an accident?
Oh yes of course I just happened to stumble across a silly configuration of a circuit as I have presented.

>>Can you explain the principle of its operation?
I do think so and a paper will be offered for publication when I am ready.

Oh by the way, are you a vortex member???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: SpongeDave on November 01, 2007, 08:30:20 PM
Well it looks like I misjudged you!

Let me be the first to say that you ROCK!

Also, you are certainly not a fraud.

(But c'mon, that logo...)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 08:39:18 PM
Well it looks like I misjudged you!

Let me be the first to say that you ROCK!

Also, you are certainly not a fraud.

(But c'mon, that logo...)

>>(But c'mon, that logo...)
So what is wrong with my bird? That I will sell to you.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 01, 2007, 08:44:40 PM
Welcome back Dr.  Let's keep moving forward like you said.  It's about the work, not the people anyway.  Overall, I think this is a good group, you will see.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: SpongeDave on November 01, 2007, 08:55:45 PM
Well it looks like I misjudged you!

Let me be the first to say that you ROCK!

Also, you are certainly not a fraud.

(But c'mon, that logo...)

>>(But c'mon, that logo...)
So what is wrong with my bird? That I will sell to you.

You are like me in that I also suffer from only hearing the negative.
Actually, you are what drew me to this site.
I believe strongly in the 2nd Law of thermodynamics and probably wouldn't be caught dead here...

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 08:56:08 PM
Welcome back Dr.  Let's keep moving forward like you said.  It's about the work, not the people anyway.  Overall, I think this is a good group, you will see.

Bill
Thank you, we will get there even though we have moles that carry back to other groups false statements.

But I have decided to let other people clean that disgusting mess up.

And Please do continue the Dr., I earned it and when all comes out in the wash the moles will eat their words.  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 01, 2007, 09:25:11 PM
Thanks for the request. I will do a series of tests on that level tonight. But, since you mention about the current I am very puzzled by it which comes to my question directed to

@Dr. Stiffer,
thanks for not leaving us and showing your work and even putting this effort for us to learn and may be improve on it. I did my simplified test (a few posts ago) only to eliminate many variables and be able to measure each individual step (I dont have the experience you have). I also tried one of the most simplified versions you posted with only the radio coil, the choque, cap, resistor and one led. I did succeed somewhat and I got the High voltage on the neon light and the led being lit.

My question: measuring the input current on my design (with only the leds and func gen) it was only about less than .10ma (one tenth of a 1 milliamp) and output current being .40ma and you just showed the math that implies a much higher current and voltage is necessary to light the leds, how is it possible that my design still lights 50+ leds? I measured the voltage accros all the leds and is still about 4.3volts. (I understand that somewhat my design is similiar to yours without the amplification, I think)

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 09:35:40 PM
Thanks for the request. I will do a series of tests on that level tonight. But, since you mention about the current I am very puzzled by it which comes to my question directed to

@Dr. Stiffer,
thanks for not leaving us and showing your work and even putting this effort for us to learn and may be improve on it. I did my simplified test (a few posts ago) only to eliminate many variables and be able to measure each individual step (I dont have the experience you have). I also tried one of the most simplified versions you posted with only the radio coil, the choque, cap, resistor and one led. I did succeed somewhat and I got the High voltage on the neon light and the led being lit.

My question: measuring the input current on my design (with only the leds and func gen) it was only about less than .10ma (one tenth of a 1 milliamp) and output current being .40ma and you just showed the math that implies a much higher current and voltage is necessary to light the leds, how is it possible that my design still lights 50+ leds? I measured the voltage accros all the leds and is still about 4.3volts. (I understand that somewhat my design is similiar to yours without the amplification, I think)

Fausto.
If you would please post a circuit diagram I will look at it and see if I can offer meaningful response to your questions.

The example I gave was from a worst case of the work I have done, (well maybe not the worst but close). Anyway there may be many things involved, certain LEDS are very sensitive and you can often get them to flash from the static you pick up when walking on a rug, holding one end and touching the other to a metal mass or ground. But I doubt that is you case, not for 50+ LEDS. I need to really see what you have to offer much. As far as input, it is a moot point if you use some on-board oscillator and worry only about the DC voltage and current supplying it. You can solve any problems from people claiming spikes by hanging a 0.01, 0.1 and 1,000 in parallel across the DC input. For the external oscillator this is where I get so much flak. I think my site explains the methods I have used and I think I may have talked about it earlier in the thread.

Like I say, can you provide a diagram and or picture.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 01, 2007, 09:37:20 PM
This is starting to look like people playing with the OU.COM people now.  Would not be the first time.

But thank god we aren't being sent on unexpected business trips...

;)

Dear All,

I dont know what is going on with my posts, anyway I am in the airport HSBC lounge, my trip is already planned dont worry about it. I was tracked by CIA when I was living Boston.. But why now again? Any way..

My posts those are asking for using air core rather than BaFe are wiped off???

Please dont worry for me guys I am safe..

Regards, have a good night...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2007, 09:49:48 PM
Hi All.
I have just ripped apart my old AM radio and recovered the ferrite coil from it.
Now I am seeing also the neon bulb to light up. Still have to build the new oscillator. More soon.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 10:15:15 PM
Hi all,

Look at pix attached.  1 led in series with the input, 10 LEDs on the output. Input and output single wire.  Oh, I live in a reinforced concrete building and I am in the middle of it.  FM or AM radio just don't work where my mini shop is (Worlds smallest lab). I have been through about 100 variations in the last hour and half, learning as I go. My Sig generator is 27V pp output floating as I have removed the ground connector on plug but of course there is inductive coupling to ground but all is floating right now.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 10:31:45 PM
Thank you Dr. Stiffler,

I understand about the follower to keep the Osc. isolated and provide drive downstream.  You been around the block a few times!.....most excellent.

Also, I have seen lots of those little 12VDC trickle charger Solar panels and as you say, they are junk!.  I have 3 big Siemens 50 W panels on my sailboat.  Now if we could light about 10K LED's, may have something!  Again as you have noted, output is so subjective on LED's unless you put a meter in there, it is a WAG.  As you say, a lot to try down the line...........so many experiments, so little time!

I'm still messing around.  Tried a full wave bridge driven by both ends of the secondary and manage to get about 12 ma out @ around 18 volts across 10 LED's...haven't followed it very far.  Just trying things now to get a feel for what I am working with.  I'm working on comparative innies and outties,  gives you something to think about.  I'm going to try and get a spark gap Wimshurst RF osc. working tonight and drive this thing! Stability will be a bitch. Wonder If I can get it to convert the very HV RF down to a usable voltage and current in your circuit!  Just something else to mess with.

Keep at it, man your post are most excellent and I look for each one as I learn something from them all.

Ben

The solar cell, well I have been trying to keep my web site in sync and it is close, but still catching up. That first solar cell is a JOKE and I told the manufacture as much. In full sun the TOY could only generate 30mA. I do have the start of the info on my site at the bottom of the page. In short, to make it work you will need the best cell you can get, I will give examples and you will need to play with some small mirrors to use all the light, but that is later right?  You Bet!
[/quote]
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 10:57:16 PM
@k4zep

I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.

You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.

I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2007, 11:36:04 PM
Message Removed by HSCIA

As I am the only moderator,
if this is not a joke,

The forum is not hacked.

@All,
The last offtopic non technical postings have been deleted by me.

I can see now in my new AM coil , that only 1 core out of 3 gives
a neon bulb lighting up at the unconnected coil wire end.
But I have to recheck this.
But one core was definately better than another one.

I also now have a litzwire coil and wound  10 windings of about 0.5 mm
diameter copper wire around it.

I did not yet build up the new oscillator,this comes next.
But with my old function generator going up to about 2 to 3 Mhz
I see now a resonance at around 2 Mhz, but the brightness
of the LEDs is still best, when I just use the 10 windings coil
and not putting the square into litz coil and using the 10 windings coil
as the outpt.
So the just-choke solution is still  better than the transformer solution.

But I can see, that using the ferrite core enhances the light output a bit,
when I remove or insert the ferrite core again.

So I see some gain already versus just driving the LEDs with just only
the signal generator output.

So now I am going to build up the 74AC14 oscillator and will see,
how this behaves at frequencies around 10 Mhz.
Stay tuned for pics and new video.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 12:13:44 AM
@Stefan

Thank you sir. With you now on board I think we are on a road to something that just may have a meaningful impact on humanity.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 02, 2007, 12:52:50 AM
@Dr. Stiffler
At http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg56857.html#msg56857 (10vpp square waves from the func gen) is the diagram and at http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg56860.html#msg56860 is the 50+ leds lid. THere is nothing on this circuit really but it still lights up pretty well. I tested this over the wall VAC or using a battery with an inverter and same results. I put a ampmeter at point A (on the diagram) and ground (not shown on any of the pics) and thats where I got the output measurement. I also tried with the ampmeter between the lead of the func gen and the first led on the left where I got the input measurement. Notice that it is only one wire going to the leds and one going to the ground. I show it on a video at you tube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-WGgUkOvY.

Dr, the only reason I am asking this is because I really do not understand how is it possible to just using the signal from the func gen to light up all this LEDs. This off course is without the amplification but still and the currents that I am getting back from the amp-meters are way too low for even lighting up one led. (I am a little ashaimed to even ask you this Dr. with such a stupid diagram of mine). I end up with this simple test after trying your design (at http://www.drstiffler.com/ and part #2 Fig: 01 - Basic circuit diagram ) and changing things to the point that it is now.

Oh another thing, if connecting the other lead of the func gen to the point A and/or removing the ground connection the LEDs will NOT light up. Very strange indeed.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 02, 2007, 01:00:29 AM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Took me a while to find a way to make viable measurement with LED as indicator/diode in front end and get rid of capacatance effects and to think through exactly what is going on voltage and duty cycle wise in the circuit..

Found with common ground of signal generator/scope, all floating allowed good measurement.

Circuit is identical to basic circuit with L/C on input except a resistor added directly to sig. generator input then a diode connected to L/C circuit all in series..  Thats is all.  See abbreviated schematic attached......quick hand draw

Resistor 150 ohm carbon non inductive.
Signal:  5.8MHz square wave.
Signal input TP-A:  27 V Peak to Peak square wave +/- around ground.
Signal after Resistor TP-B = 23 V Peak to Peak.
Difference across resistor 4V
Actual difference seen from load due to diode 2V
I=E/R=2/150=.0133 MA.
P=EI=2X.0133=26.6 MW/2 for duty cycle=13.3 MW input.

LED Output" 18V across LED's with 10uf also across them for filtering.
Series Current with DVM in series with LED's= 1.8 Ma. (lousy coil!)
P=EI=18X.0018
Power out=32.4 MW.

I'm pretty confident of these readings.  It only gets better with more LED's on the output.  This thing seems a constant current source till it runs out of voltage..........

Your knowledge of how this thing works I Will not question as to bridge mucking up output.  I haven't tested that..............but I suspect you are right.  There is some funky phasing due to the AV plug working both ways and the virtual ground.

Ben

@k4zep

I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.

You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.

I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:13:36 AM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Took me a while to find a way to make viable measurement with LED as indicator/diode in front end and get rid of capacatance effects and to think through exactly what is going on voltage and duty cycle wise in the circuit..

Found with common ground of signal generator/scope, all floating allowed good measurement.

Circuit is identical to basic circuit with L/C on input except a resistor added directly to sig. generator input then a diode connected to L/C circuit all in series..  Thats is all.  See abbreviated schematic attached......quick hand draw

Resistor 150 ohm carbon non inductive.
Signal:  5.8MHz square wave.
Signal input TP-A:  27 V Peak to Peak square wave +/- around ground.
Signal after Resistor TP-B = 23 V Peak to Peak.
Difference across resistor 4V
Actual difference seen from load due to diode 2V
I=E/R=2/150=.0133 MA.
P=EI=2X.0133=26.6 MW/2 for duty cycle=13.3 MW input.

LED Output" 18V across LED's with 10uf also across them for filtering.
Series Current with DVM in series with LED's= 1.8 Ma. (lousy coil!)
P=EI=18X.0018
Power out=32.4 MW.

I'm pretty confident of these readings.  It only gets better with more LED's on the output.  This thing seems a constant current source till it runs out of voltage..........

Your knowledge of how this thing works I Will not question as to bridge mucking up output.  I haven't tested that..............but I suspect you are right.  There is some funky phasing due to the AV plug working both ways and the virtual ground.

Ben

@k4zep

I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.

You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.

I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Do not be afraid to ask, this is why I am here and what I am asking you all to do, that said lets look at what you have.

If the generator will not drive the LEDS direct and you have no inductance, one thing comes to mind. Place 4.7K ohm resistor from your generator to you ground connection, exclusive of the LEDS. In other words the generator Hot lead to one end of the resistor and the other end of the resistor to your ground connection. With a VOM or DVM or DMM measure the voltage across the resistor. Measure both A.C. and D.C. Don't worry about the meters frequency response, I expect to see a high A.C. voltage across the resistor. Even though you tried the inverter arrangement I suspect low level A.C. versus the generator signal.

How all of what I just said is rubbish if you can adjust the frequency to either side and the LEDS dim or go out. Should this be the case I might try a different outlet strip as the one you are using contains harmonic suppression inductors or varistors which could be bleeding into the A.C. hot side.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 02, 2007, 01:25:33 AM

Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Circuit very resonant around base frequency of 5.8 MHz, tune for max lighting/which shows up as max differential across resistor.  Bandwidth is a few hundred Khz wide.  We are looking at the pure IR drop across resistor @ RF frequency.  Further down in circuit waveforms identical to yours as shown in your scope shots.  Much higher peak to peak voltages after L/C circuit before and feeding BF open ended coil.  Can show scope shots if you need.

Ben

Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Took me a while to find a way to make viable measurement with LED as indicator/diode in front end and get rid of capacatance effects and to think through exactly what is going on voltage and duty cycle wise in the circuit..

Found with common ground of signal generator/scope, all floating allowed good measurement.

Circuit is identical to basic circuit with L/C on input except a resistor added directly to sig. generator input then a diode connected to L/C circuit all in series..  Thats is all.  See abbreviated schematic attached......quick hand draw

Resistor 150 ohm carbon non inductive.
Signal:  5.8MHz square wave.
Signal input TP-A:  27 V Peak to Peak square wave +/- around ground.
Signal after Resistor TP-B = 23 V Peak to Peak.
Difference across resistor 4V
Actual difference seen from load due to diode 2V
I=E/R=2/150=.0133 MA.
P=EI=2X.0133=26.6 MW/2 for duty cycle=13.3 MW input.

LED Output" 18V across LED's with 10uf also across them for filtering.
Series Current with DVM in series with LED's= 1.8 Ma. (lousy coil!)
P=EI=18X.0018
Power out=32.4 MW.

I'm pretty confident of these readings.  It only gets better with more LED's on the output.  This thing seems a constant current source till it runs out of voltage..........

Your knowledge of how this thing works I Will not question as to bridge mucking up output.  I haven't tested that..............but I suspect you are right.  There is some funky phasing due to the AV plug working both ways and the virtual ground.

Ben

@k4zep

I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.

You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.

I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Do not be afraid to ask, this is why I am here and what I am asking you all to do, that said lets look at what you have.

If the generator will not drive the LEDS direct and you have no inductance, one thing comes to mind. Place 4.7K ohm resistor from your generator to you ground connection, exclusive of the LEDS. In other words the generator Hot lead to one end of the resistor and the other end of the resistor to your ground connection. With a VOM or DVM or DMM measure the voltage across the resistor. Measure both A.C. and D.C. Don't worry about the meters frequency response, I expect to see a high A.C. voltage across the resistor. Even though you tried the inverter arrangement I suspect low level A.C. versus the generator signal.

How all of what I just said is rubbish if you can adjust the frequency to either side and the LEDS dim or go out. Should this be the case I might try a different outlet strip as the one you are using contains harmonic suppression inductors or varistors which could be bleeding into the A.C. hot side.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 02, 2007, 01:39:49 AM
I cannot say how happy I am to see all this activity happening and the good doc back as well. :)

@Dr.Stiffler,

does your site server support php/mysql because you could run a CMS (Content Management System) on it and greatly ease the way you update your pages? I could help you out with the setup if you need assistance...

@Stefan,

please post your oscillator circuit here so that others may use it, if it proves to produce necessary drive. We really want everyone to be able to easily replicate all the findings so that naysayers have nothing to say. :)

I have built a new simple square wave oscillator (another hack job) by using a combination of two NAND (from 74HC00) and couple of hex-inverter schmitt triggers (from 74HC14) as the output boost. I find it working better in this configuration than flip-flop on its own or the hex-inverters on their own. I'm attaching a mock-up schematics...with this values I get around 10MHz, use your own judgment on filtering the DC power signal, I'm pretty bad at it. Matter a fact if someone can improve on this would be greatly appreciated.

Has someone tried that LTC based oscillator that was posted here couple of pages back yet?

Lastly could someone please tell me how to (properly) wind a 1.1uH L1 because I have not had much luck doing it so far with various online air coil calculators? I find it that using a commercial choke (of unknown inductance value) I had, makes the circuit work, while my own coils don't, grrrr.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:49:34 AM

Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Circuit very resonant around base frequency of 5.8 MHz, tune for max lighting/which shows up as max differential across resistor.  Bandwidth is a few hundred Khz wide.  We are looking at the pure IR drop across resistor @ RF frequency.  Further down in circuit waveforms identical to yours as shown in your scope shots.  Much higher peak to peak voltages after L/C circuit before and feeding BF open ended coil.  Can show scope shots if you need.

Ben

Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Took me a while to find a way to make viable measurement with LED as indicator/diode in front end and get rid of capacatance effects and to think through exactly what is going on voltage and duty cycle wise in the circuit..

Found with common ground of signal generator/scope, all floating allowed good measurement.

Circuit is identical to basic circuit with L/C on input except a resistor added directly to sig. generator input then a diode connected to L/C circuit all in series..  Thats is all.  See abbreviated schematic attached......quick hand draw

Resistor 150 ohm carbon non inductive.
Signal:  5.8MHz square wave.
Signal input TP-A:  27 V Peak to Peak square wave +/- around ground.
Signal after Resistor TP-B = 23 V Peak to Peak.
Difference across resistor 4V
Actual difference seen from load due to diode 2V
I=E/R=2/150=.0133 MA.
P=EI=2X.0133=26.6 MW/2 for duty cycle=13.3 MW input.

LED Output" 18V across LED's with 10uf also across them for filtering.
Series Current with DVM in series with LED's= 1.8 Ma. (lousy coil!)
P=EI=18X.0018
Power out=32.4 MW.

I'm pretty confident of these readings.  It only gets better with more LED's on the output.  This thing seems a constant current source till it runs out of voltage..........

Your knowledge of how this thing works I Will not question as to bridge mucking up output.  I haven't tested that..............but I suspect you are right.  There is some funky phasing due to the AV plug working both ways and the virtual ground.

Ben

@k4zep

I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.

You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.

I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Do not be afraid to ask, this is why I am here and what I am asking you all to do, that said lets look at what you have.

If the generator will not drive the LEDS direct and you have no inductance, one thing comes to mind. Place 4.7K ohm resistor from your generator to you ground connection, exclusive of the LEDS. In other words the generator Hot lead to one end of the resistor and the other end of the resistor to your ground connection. With a VOM or DVM or DMM measure the voltage across the resistor. Measure both A.C. and D.C. Don't worry about the meters frequency response, I expect to see a high A.C. voltage across the resistor. Even though you tried the inverter arrangement I suspect low level A.C. versus the generator signal.

How all of what I just said is rubbish if you can adjust the frequency to either side and the LEDS dim or go out. Should this be the case I might try a different outlet strip as the one you are using contains harmonic suppression inductors or varistors which could be bleeding into the A.C. hot side.

You have no idea how much I appreciate your work. Great professional job.
When you feel comfortable with what you have done and your understanding which is very, very close to being right on, then you need a decent coil, because the next phase is to move from milli-watts to watts. Just imagine how it will feel to see your calculations showing watts 'OU' ?  But, are not the milli-watts a thrill?

The next phase is driving the incandescent. Then the cream on the cake.... Boy am I happy for you and my selfish self.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 02:03:09 AM
I cannot say how happy I am to see all this activity happening and the good doc back as well. :)

@Dr.Stiffler,

does your site server support php/mysql because you could run a CMS (Content Management System) on it and greatly ease the way you update your pages? I could help you out with the setup if you need assistance...

@Stefan,

please post your oscillator circuit here so that others may use it, if it proves to produce necessary drive. We really want everyone to be able to easily replicate all the findings so that naysayers have nothing to say. :)

I have built a new simple square wave oscillator (another hack job) by using a combination of two NAND (from 74HC00) and couple of hex-inverter schmitt triggers (from 74HC14) as the output boost. I find it working better in this configuration than flip-flop on its own or the hex-inverters on their own. I'm attaching a mock-up schematics...with this values I get around 10MHz, use your own judgment on filtering the DC power signal, I'm pretty bad at it. Matter a fact if someone can improve on this would be greatly appreciated.

Has someone tried that LTC based oscillator that was posted here couple of pages back yet?

Lastly could someone please tell me how to (properly) wind a 1.1uH L1 because I have not had much luck doing it so far with various online air coil calculators? I find it that using a commercial choke (of unknown inductance value) I had, makes the circuit work, while my own coils don't, grrrr.

Thanks.
One note that I must make for you, your IC drivers are basically current drivers and the output impedance my not be good enough. I tried using SN7400 and no cigar. If you drive from the drain with an inductor by MOSFET may be better. Keep it in mind in case you get poor response.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 02, 2007, 02:14:51 AM
One note that I must make for you, your IC drivers are basically current drivers and the output impedance my not be good enough. I tried using SN7400 and no cigar. If you drive from the drain with an inductor by MOSFET may be better. Keep it in mind in case you get poor response.

I notice that I can connect only so many LEDs until the light gets dimmer than I'd like it to be. Perhaps a combination of the 74HC00/74HC14 for the signal generation and 2N7000 output buffer might work better?

Thanks
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 02, 2007, 02:22:29 AM
@Dr. Stiffler

What I also noticed is this: when I use my driver, if I touch my BaFe core on the edge of the primary side most of the time extinguishes the light from the LEDs. If I use your driver from PL01 circuit then I get the opposite, the LEDs shine so bright they burn my eyes.

Also, since this is driven by a 9V battery if I touch the casing of the battery using your PL01 circuit, the LEDs light up again so bright. Am I grounding the whole circuit by touching the battery casing or the BaFe core?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 02, 2007, 02:37:05 AM
Sorry to go off topic, but has anybody made a backup or mirrored this thread? The last thing we'd want is for some unfortunate "accident" to make it all disappear...

I'm planning on trying a replication myself in a few weeks when I finish uni exams, and I'm just kinda worried that when I get around to it the thread will be inaccessible.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 02:37:36 AM
@Dr. Stiffler

What I also noticed is this: when I use my driver, if I touch my BaFe core on the edge of the primary side most of the time extinguishes the light from the LEDs. If I use your driver from PL01 circuit then I get the opposite, the LEDs shine so bright they burn my eyes.

Also, since this is driven by a 9V battery if I touch the casing of the battery using your PL01 circuit, the LEDs light up again so bright. Am I grounding the whole circuit by touching the battery casing or the BaFe core?

Thanks.

I (think) you are not properly driving it, which could be an impedance match, the coil in the drain of the 2N7000 could be wrong, or you are at the wrong frequency for the coil. What is taking place is the coil is trying to suck in energy, but it is not being supplied by the driver. You are (body) adding a large capacitor interface to the environment and supplying what the coil requires. It may not make much sense yet, trust me, the coil wants energy (that is if it is running at all). Think Source and Sink, the coil is a Sink.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 02, 2007, 03:01:04 AM
Thanks Dr. Stiffler,

All I am try to do is verify the operation, Milliwatts, Watts or more, theory and understanding is what I am doing now.  I will say if you are not exactly on the primary resonance frequency, probably NOT OU......it is possible to drive on 2nd and 3rd harmonics or by direct coupling but then nada or no joy.

Got out my #2 (better scope that has good probes and calibration), might get out the big boat anchor later that is a very good scope but it is in another storage closet and a pain to get out unless I really need it.

Verified numbers again, OU for lack of a better word ratio is very close to my old "don't care if I fry it scope"said......I see the voltage @ resonance rise in the series L/C circuit feeding the BF coil from my 21 volts to about 40 volts @ input. I see the increase in voltage drop across the input resistor as the resonance comes in with voltage rise and current pulls voltage down across resistor......It really is so straightforward that I am amazed.  ANY grounding of the other ends of the coils or core or ground plane and/to each other or ground and voltage is still there but NO current and LED's don't light!  Funky. My core is so poor, I can't drive a NE-2 but been there before, done that so no problem.  With a square wave, I see the integration and back reflection of the power pulse from the BF core into the system which is at max at resonant input frequency.  It simply works as you say it does.  I'm just lucky my "magnet core transformer" works at all.  Have good coils coming. I like the analogy of the core being a SINK!  We won't get into the source theory yet ................Each time I play with the circuit, I see it a bit more clearly.......

I look forward to the Lamp driver circuit as I remember you saying a 1k across that cap across the AV plug circuit was too hot to touch, now that is power! .5 watt +++  Then a HIGH POWER CIRCUIT you say??????????????????that will be fun!

First time in my life I actually see an OU effect that I can repeat and verify!  Gotta sleep on it, I must be dreaming.

Later and grinning,
Ben

You have no idea how much I appreciate your work. Great professional job.
When you feel comfortable with what you have done and your understanding which is very, very close to being right on, then you need a decent coil, because the next phase is to move from milli-watts to watts. Just imagine how it will feel to see your calculations showing watts 'OU' ?  But, are not the milli-watts a thrill?

The next phase is driving the incandescent. Then the cream on the cake.... Boy am I happy for you and my selfish self[/quote]
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 02, 2007, 03:06:11 AM
I tested using a 8 feet super thin wire, smaller than human hair, and nothing, no heat at all and ALL 50+ LEDs are lit brigthly.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 02, 2007, 04:02:21 AM
I tested using a 8 feet super thin wire, smaller than human hair, and nothing, no heat at all and ALL 50+ LEDs are lit brigthly.

Fausto.
In all the years I've spent looking at and reading about different so called O/U devices (nearly 30 years), very few, if any, till now, have
actually looked truly promising to me. Closer inspection and analysis always reveals the flaw/s.

Dr Stiffler, you really seem to be onto something very special here. Great replications by Amigos and Plengo and K4Zep serve to further the advances in understanding this strange effect.

I just found and viewed the video "part 9". Fantastic progress!

I am waiting in great anticipation for "part 10". Dr Stiffler, you've been very open with your discoveries, and I have no doubt,
that your contributions will one day soon, benefit humanity. I only hope that humanity will be be grateful and also reward your endevours.

Great Stuff, I'm staying tuned to this thread, and looking forward to each and every lesson, from all of you!

KneeDeep from The Toad who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 02, 2007, 05:01:22 AM
Has anybody got a link to a low-cost oscillator circuit, with easy-to-get parts? The biggest problem for me (and many other electronics noobs) is going to be getting hold of a ~12mhz square wave generator.

The LTC1799 circuit posted before is problematic, because the LTC1799 is hard to come by where I live (Australia).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 07:19:05 AM
Hmm,
I am back, buttoo tired now to post pictures and make a video.

I also have no luck it seems.

It seems I  bought the wrong part.
The 74AC14 hex schmitt trigger inverted can only be
used with maximum 6 Volts supply voltage and I thought,
that I could use 15 Volts...

Which is the right part for 15 Volts supply ?
Is it the 74 HC14?

So I get now only around 4 Volts peak to peak
AC high frequency voltage from this generator.

I am using the attached circuit diagram
and am driving the rest of the inverters in parallel to get
a better current output.
( The circuit diagram is from a 74HC14 type PDF file,
but I have only here now a 74AC14)

Also it seems I always get better results with just
a choke from the 10 windings wired around my AM Litz coil.
When I put the ferrite core into the coils, the brightness of the LED
gets worse,also if I retune the oscillator !
I tried 3 different ferrite cores, but none will give me
any amplification in this moment.
Well I used a trimmer capacitor to change the frequency and
the range is not very big now.
Maybe around 8 to 12 Mhz now.
I need to use a potentiometer for to change the resistor value
to get a better range and  be able to tune the circuit much better..

Sorry, but in this moment I can not see any OU effect and even
a 10 winding aircore coil as choke in front of the Avramenko plug
just works best at around 10 Mhz.
This just gives me the brightest light from the LED.

By the way, I changed again back to a normal Avramenko plug
having 2 x 1N4148 diodes and 1 blue bright light LED.

When I used the 3 LEDs I don?t get them to light up,
you need much higher voltages then...

I tried all combinations of coils and cores I had, but this the
10 winding aircore choke gives me the best light output.

One pin of the Avramenko plug LED must be grounded or
was connected to my stainless steel mesh.

Then I get very good light at around 10 Mhz from the Avramenko plug LED.
But I did not measure yet the input power from my batteries into the 74AC14
circuit.
I am driving via the 5 parallel inverter outputs a 6.8 nF cap and then the 10 winding
aircore choke (about 1 cm diameter) and then via one wire to the Avramenko plug with the
LED.
One LED pin is then connected to the stainless steel mesh hanging isolated in the air.

This gives the best light right now...

Also I only have round cores, no flat ferrite cores.

Okay, so far my oberservations.
Next step is to enhance the oscillator to be able to tune
from around 1 Mhz to 20 Mhz with a pot
and have a higher peak to peak output voltage.

But I guess, I just don?t have the right cores !

can you check, if also other cores work for you
and how your circuit behaves, when you remove the core
from the coils ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 02, 2007, 07:37:42 AM
@plengo

"I tested using a 8 feet super thin wire, smaller than human hair, and nothing, no heat at all and ALL 50+ LEDs are lit brigthly".

Fantastic! You are reproduced the Avramenko experiment!
It would now be interesting to close the circuit to mass with the generator of signals, to see if this has effect to heat the thin wire. If you have a termocouple or thermometer you can measure the heating of the thread in the two cases.

I think that your experiment is fundamental better to understand the phenomenon. To what frequency are you using the generator of signals? And possible measure the current which comes along the wire with the oscilloscopio which I have seen in the photography? Can you send an image to be able to understand the current he passes to you? And also the tension.

Can you use/build a simple signal generator, powered by a battery and therefore do again the tests verifying the absorption of the oscillator (always with the oscilloscope) and the group of the LEDs?

I Think is important to understand  if the system composed by:
oscillator-> wire -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?

If is only a transport media the envelopment L1-L2-L3 used by Stiffer becomes fundamental.

At this point tries to insert only L1, do a test for his dimensioning and verifies what happens.
oscillator-> wire -> L1 -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?

You can obviously olso insert the other parts and remake the experiment...

However always tries to use a simple and oscillator powered by a battery.

Best regards

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 07:40:41 AM
@plengo

"I tested using a 8 feet super thin wire, smaller than human hair, and nothing, no heat at all and ALL 50+ LEDs are lit brigthly".

Hi,
do you need to match the driver frequency to the length
of the wire ?

What if you change the length ?

Do you then also have to adjust the
frequency ?
So is it a standing wave ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 07:41:39 AM
Here is the circuit I was using for the
oscillator.
( my inverters were all 74AC14)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 09:28:39 AM
Okay,I just looked it up,
only the 74C14 is CMOS compatible with up to 15 Volts power
supply voltage.
The 74AC14 I bought is only good up to 7 Volts maximum...!  :'(

So I wonder, which is the fasted hex inverter schmitt trigger,
thatcan use 15 Volts supply voltage ?

How fast is the 40106 or 4584 compared to the 74C14 ?

Which one is the fasted and good available ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 02, 2007, 12:37:43 PM
Does anyone have comments on the remarks at   http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit#Forum

He doesn't seem to think there is anything unusual about Dr. Stiffler's circuit:

========
This circuit is similar to a very common circuit used by thousands of people everyday to power the flash lamps in disposable cameras....Since the bulb is a 15 watt bulb, it will be bright during the 1/10 second it is consuming 14.4 watts. Thus the circuit performance can easily be explained without ?cold electricity? or ?over unity?.

Note that the primary of the transformer is being fed with an RF frequency signal. It is unclear if this is deliberate or if it is a parasitic oscillation. The open lead on the secondary of the transformer is not actually unconnected at RF frequencies but is connected to other parts of the circuit by the parasitic capacitance of the lead. Same for the neon bulbs.
========
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 02, 2007, 01:38:41 PM
Does anyone have comments on the remarks at   http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit#Forum

He doesn't seem to think there is anything unusual about Dr. Stiffler's circuit:

========
This circuit is similar to a very common circuit used by thousands of people everyday to power the flash lamps in disposable cameras....Since the bulb is a 15 watt bulb, it will be bright during the 1/10 second it is consuming 14.4 watts. Thus the circuit performance can easily be explained without ?cold electricity? or ?over unity?.

Note that the primary of the transformer is being fed with an RF frequency signal. It is unclear if this is deliberate or if it is a parasitic oscillation. The open lead on the secondary of the transformer is not actually unconnected at RF frequencies but is connected to other parts of the circuit by the parasitic capacitance of the lead. Same for the neon bulbs.

========The gentleman has done a bang up job analyzing the circuit without building it using excellent conventional theory. He hasn't a clue as to why the RF is used, the resonance factor in the circuit, the AV plug theory, the BF coil theory, his knowledge of the device is so superficial that he has missed every important concept there.

IF it were a standard transformer, OSC/ etc.  His numbers are dead on.  BUT, by not building the Stiffler circuit, an analyzing what is going on, making measurements as to the actual input/output power, totally misses the point and calculations..........sad.  The circuit is not even remotely similar. Visually, both flash.....thats where the similarity ends.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 02, 2007, 01:52:50 PM
his knowledge of the device is so superficial that he has missed every important concept there....The circuit is not even remotely similar. Visually, both flash.....thats where the similarity ends.

Ben [/b][/b]

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 02:10:15 PM
his knowledge of the device is so superficial that he has missed every important concept there....The circuit is not even remotely similar. Visually, both flash.....thats where the similarity ends.

Ben [/b][/b]

@canam101

I don't feel this thread wants to focus on NEGATIVE or SPECULATIVE assessments, unless it is by one of those in the threat that are dedicated and applying effort towards finding the answer for themselves. In this thread we have people spending time that could be spent with family, sports etc., looking into these circuits for answers. The evidence shown here has already out weighted any from your reference.

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 02, 2007, 02:20:20 PM

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 02:44:08 PM
@Stefan

can you check, if also other cores work for you
and how your circuit behaves, when you remove the core
from the coils ?

I know I have answered this a hundred times, but can't find where. One last time.

I tried various core material I have at the lab, most unknown content, some for AF, RF and LF chokes. I tried xformer cores and pot cores. I did not get any worthwhile results from these attempts. Nothing I would not agree was standard EE results.

I still remain amazed that others seem to. Hey maybe I did something wrong. But your on you won in this area, I have noting to offer other than I could not get results.

You IC approach to a driver. I think I mentioned this to 'amigo', this is not a current driven anomaly, the input impedance is so high that it just is not the correct approach. Voltage driven and impedance matching in the driver is the most important part of the replication. You can see this is true in the other replication postings.

I am happy to hear that you have at least seen the HV occur. Your close, don't dismay.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 02, 2007, 05:02:04 PM
Quote
Fantastic! You are reproduced the Avramenko experiment!
Did I? well, I am glad of that!

Quote
It would now be interesting to close the circuit to mass with the generator of signals, to see if this has effect to heat the thin wire. If you have a termocouple or thermometer you can measure the heating of the thread in the two cases.
I dont' think I will be able to measure any heat from this wire in my lab. It is so small, if any, that I would need a more controled envrionment for that.

Quote
I think that your experiment is fundamental better to understand the phenomenon. To what frequency are you using the generator of signals? And possible measure the current which comes along the wire with the oscilloscopio which I have seen in the photography? Can you send an image to be able to understand the current he passes to you? And also the tension.
I agree. I am very puzzled by being able to light those leds with so little power. I measure again last night the current in/out and it is very interesting that the in current is less than .1 milliamp and the out can be as high as 20milliamp. Voltage has been very difficult to measure, it affects everything.  I will take some shots of the oscilloscope from many different places in the circuit.

Quote
Can you use/build a simple signal generator, powered by a battery and therefore do again the tests verifying the absorption of the oscillator (always with the oscilloscope) and the group of the LEDs?
I am working on that already. Soon I will be running this thing without the func-gen.

Quote
I Think is important to understand  if the system composed by:
oscillator-> wire -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?

If is only a transport media the envelopment L1-L2-L3 used by Stiffer becomes fundamental.

At this point tries to insert only L1, do a test for his dimensioning and verifies what happens.
oscillator-> wire -> L1 -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?
I also tested this circuit in parallel to another one very similliar where ALL the leds are in parallel, about 15 more, and they all light bright (so a total of 70 leds). It seams that If I decouple the signal from the func-gen from the circuits I can run many more circuits at the same time with no logical reason from where the power is coming from. (I know this sounds craizy, but hey, Dr. Stiffler started all).
One more note: I tried last night also using a long, very long cable about 50 feet, to feed the system. It is a lamp wire with two lines, I connected the func-gen (one lead only) to one wire and on the other end I connected the OTHER wire to the circuit and it all works still, even though they are no longer the same wire (I will show later in a diagram). Interesting stuff. Now here is the trick, when the signal comes into the circuit from the "not same wire" I have no current at all in the ground but when they are the "same wire" there is current on the ground. Figures!

@hartiberlin
Quote
do you need to match the driver frequency to the length of the wire ?
What if you change the length ?
Do you then also have to adjust the
frequency ?
So is it a standing wave ?
No. It is the same frequency in this case. The wire was about 8 feet long. I dont khow if it is a standing wave.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 05:03:22 PM
Hi Ron,
do I understand this right, that you said, that one needs the right special core material, otherwise it would not work ?

Then I guess, I still have not yet the right ferrite cores...
Maybe I really shoild order a few pieces from this Ebay seller....

To the question about the 74AC14 driver IC.
The output of this 5 inverters in parallel
should be so low in impedance to be able to drive quite a load. From your scopeshots I have seen, that you also drove your core with about 4 Volts, but I never get anywhere to 26 Volts in my circuit...
Hmm, I only have very low light on the neon bulb and also already just at the oscillator output without the coil-core...
I am going out now buying better parts. Stay tuned...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Grim on November 02, 2007, 05:06:59 PM

I have been reading the whole thing today, and I am astounded.
The work on replicating Stiflers device is incredible.

Reminds me of my first introduction to electronics, when I was a cub scout.
Back then is when I was first inspired by an electrical device, and the same feeling comes over me now when I read this thread.

God bless you Stifler, and good luck.

I will watch from the sidelines, with bated breathe, as this gathers momentum.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 07:22:22 PM
Just came back from
www.segor.de
and bought a few 40106 hex inverters
2.2 uH coils and some smaller pF caps for my
oscillator.

I also had a look at the LTC 1799,
but man, is this thing small !

Too small for my soldering iron and
I could not handle this thing with my
hands.
It costs there 3,80 EU per piece.

If somebody would have a circuit board for it,
which I could buy, maybe this would be an alternative,
but for now I am trying to use just the 40106 hex schmitt trigger
IC.
Now I might get a higher amplitude with using 15 Volts supply.

magnet core combination and tell us, what change will still work and
what not ?

We need to get to the parameters, which really produce the power amplification.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 02, 2007, 08:19:56 PM
Stefan,

Will wind an air core coil this evening 7-8 EST and report. My core not is not removable on the Ferrite magnet as I wound it directly on it with no paper/slideable insulation as I wanted as close coupling as I could get.

Just puttering around now waiting for parts to come in.  I agree that LTC is a Little Tiny Chip..........wow......

IF the device is working correctly, you should see elongation of the waveforms from the BF which I suspect is where the extra energy comes from........I still have a bunch to learn, I wish I knew 1/10 what the good Dr. knows!  All the questions we have are old hat to him..  Any test of a circuit takes 20-30 min to get all the measurements down exact and crunching the data.  I really am curious if there is anything else that will excite the way BF core does and provide this output.

REMEMBER you MUST have that L/C input series resonant device between the driver/generator and the BF coil for it to work properly  and it must be at resonance for maximum output.......at least that is a start.  The funkest thing is the possibility of a negative resistance or inductance reported by Dr. Stiffler with the BF coil on his inductance meter.  I have to look into that!!!!

Ben K4ZEP

Just came back from
www.segor.de
and bought a few 40106 hex inverters
2.2 uH coils and some smaller pF caps for my
oscillator.

I also had a look at the LTC 1799,
but man, is this thing small !

Too small for my soldering iron and
I could not handle this thing with my
hands.
It costs there 3,80 EU per piece.

If somebody would have a circuit board for it,
which I could buy, maybe this would be an alternative,
but for now I am trying to use just the 40106 hex schmitt trigger
IC.
Now I might get a higher amplitude with using 15 Volts supply.

magnet core combination and tell us, what change will still work and
what not ?

We need to get to the parameters, which really produce the power amplification.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 08:37:21 PM
Hi all,

Look at pix attached.  1 led in series with the input, 10 LEDs on the output. Input and output single wire.  Oh, I live in a reinforced concrete building and I am in the middle of it.  FM or AM radio just don't work where my mini shop is (Worlds smallest lab). I have been through about 100 variations in the last hour and half, learning as I go. My Sig generator is 27V pp output floating as I have removed the ground connector on plug but of course there is inductive coupling to ground but all is floating right now.

Ben

Ben,
please can you test, how much dependend the output brightness  of your LEDs is
on the used signal generator voltage level ? 27 Volts pp ?

What, if you used a lower driving voltage ?
What frequency do you use ? Which is the best one ?
Can you go as low as 4 Volts peak to peak to drive it and
have still the LEDs lit the same brightness ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 08:40:39 PM

REMEMBER you MUST have that L/C input series resonant device between the driver/generator and the BF coil for it to work properly  and it must be at resonance for maximum output.......at least that is a start.  The funkest thing is the possibility of a negative resistance or inductance reported by Dr. Stiffler with the BF coil on his inductance meter.  I have to look into that!!!!

Ben K4ZEP

Okay, yes, I did not have this LC resonance circuit yet between the oscillator and the core.
But now have the right parts hopefully,but I only got 330 pF and 470 pF foil caps , no 400 pF silver cap...

Well, back to the table to work now on it.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 03, 2007, 12:23:23 AM
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, \$100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 03, 2007, 12:39:25 AM
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, \$100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, \$100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Did you buy this by gun point? These gen's are \$1,495 new. :(
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 03, 2007, 12:41:38 AM
@plengo

"the current in/out and it is very interesting that the in current is less than .1 milliamp and the out can be as high as 20milliamp"

Is not clear, where are the point that the current is 0.1 mA and that is 20 mA ?

How thin was the thin wire ? If you cannot measure it, tries to wrap it on a cilinder and after 10-20 turns seeing how wide is.

If the electric wave is longitudinal, the current could change along the thread, you can measure the current in several points of the thread ? For instance if the thread is 50 ft. every 5/10 ft? This measure can allows to know as runs the current along the thread. You mast repeat the measure 2-3 times.

"I am working on that already. Soon I will be running this thing without the func-gen."

Perfect, measuring the power which feeds the circuit and isolating the circuit from the mass is very important.

I also tested this circuit in parallel ...  I have no current at all in the ground but when they are the "same wire" there is current on the ground. Figures!

It is necessary explain better what you have observed and send a diagram.
As you describe the experiment, do you can increase the LED number without reducing their luminous emission ? However is necessary to obtain an oscillator powered by batteries before to do the quantitative tests.

Are you able to do a test also with L1 (in or out the thin wire) ?

Best regards
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 03, 2007, 12:50:45 AM
Hi all,

Look at pix attached.  1 led in series with the input, 10 LEDs on the output. Input and output single wire.  Oh, I live in a reinforced concrete building and I am in the middle of it.  FM or AM radio just don't work where my mini shop is (Worlds smallest lab). I have been through about 100 variations in the last hour and half, learning as I go. My Sig generator is 27V pp output floating as I have removed the ground connector on plug but of course there is inductive coupling to ground but all is floating right now.

Ben

Ben,
please can you test, how much dependend the output brightness  of your LEDs is
on the used signal generator voltage level ? 27 Volts pp ?

Input voltage PP vs. output seems linear but have really not measured it or graphed it.

What, if you used a lower driving voltage ?
LEDs are porportnately dimmer.

What frequency do you use ? Which is the best one ?  Depend on leads, etc. anywhere between 5-8 MHz.  Totally dependent on the resonant frequency of the series circuit driving the BF coil/core.
Can you go as low as 4 Volts peak to peak to drive it and
have still the LEDs lit the same brightness ?

I can't but my coil is very NON STANDARD.  There are a whole bunch of variables in there as to number of turns, coupling, etc.  A real analysis of the circuit would take time and be a real brain teaser.  I'm sure @ 4V Peak to Peak I can get energy transfer across the circuit, whether there would be enough to drive a LED is a question.  You have to have enough to turn on the diodes in the AV plug @ their summing junction.  Then there has to be enough voltage and current to fire off the LEDs.  I'll know a lot more when I get my coils in.  I have some very nice litz wire that I can play around with a basic core and see if there is an optimum turn ratio on the device and answer a lot of questions I have as to what is going on.  It MIGHT have nothing to do with turn ratio up to a point and then it might have everything to do with the BF resonance frequencies within the mass of the core and then the resonance of the large coil around it to match that frequency for maximum energy transfer/out.  Another thing to remember is that this circuit can operate as a simple AV plug, one wire device @ under unity values.  So there is no problem lighting a LED with RF or AF with the AV plug, just not the gain you want!...........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 03, 2007, 12:54:27 AM
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, \$100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, \$100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Did you buy this by gun point? These gen's are \$1,495 new. :(

I cannot emphasize how important Ebay is for test equipment.  I live and die with equipment off there.  Most of my test equipment I get for less than 1/10 of what it cost new!  Of course you have to read the fine print and know what you are doing but for us old timers, what a deal!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 03, 2007, 01:18:02 AM
Did you buy this by gun point? These gen's are \$1,495 new. :(

Close by, it was some liquidation where they had it, was not tested just powered up in the picture so I took a chance. Now at the closer inspection it seems that the function generator output is bad since I get nothing on the 1st BNC to the right - only get the pulse/square out (2nd BNC from the right) and the rest of the SYNC outs. Luckily, I found a full manual with the service schematics so hopefully I can figure it out.

There was one more seller with this model of Wavetek who offered it to me for \$150. I am PM-ing you the details since you were interested, otherwise if you are not just post the details here. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 03, 2007, 01:22:14 AM
I cannot emphasize how important Ebay is for test equipment.  I live and die with equipment off there.  Most of my test equipment I get for less than 1/10 of what it cost new!  Of course you have to read the fine print and know what you are doing but for us old timers, what a deal!

Amen to that!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on November 03, 2007, 01:48:47 AM
Preliminary note only:

Results with ferrite antenna transformer, 2 IN4148 diodes and LED. All tests done with "open air" circuit (no breadboard -- no capacitive metal anywhere close, no earth connections).

No problems getting LED to light.

Coupling from signal generator::
Presence (or absence) of series capacitor (470pf) or inductor 2,2uH in signal generator supply line make no difference to operation.

Diode type used for Avramenko Rectifier (AR)::
Testing several types of diodes suggests that diode capacitance needs to be low. Circuit worked poorly with ultra high speed power diodes (medium junction capacitance) and did not work with 200V schottkey (highest junction capacitance). These results suggest that low serial capacitance is required in the load for optimal output.

Placing series capacitance in the load dramatically reduces the output while placing parallel capacitance enhances the output. Parallel capacitance on the load does not effect the resonance frequency.  Capacitance to ground on the load side enhances the output although the resonance is shifted to a lower frequency - as you would expect.

Same operation with load LED in either orientation. Similar output power with two LED?s in parallel. No output with two LEDs parallel in opposing orientation. It appears that a polarized capacitive load is required for operation.

Parallel capacitance is required on the load for function. This can be provided by capacitive coupling to ground or across the AV plug directly or via the junction capacitance of a load diode.

Square vs sine wave drive::
Both sine and square waves work just as well at the fundamental resonance. Square wave works better at sub-harmonic frequencies.

Principal resonances with no load to ground::
The fundamental resonance with no capacitive loading to ground (15ph scope probes) on the load was 12Mhz. Sub harmonics that give significant output are the 1/3 and 1/4. The principal frequency of 12Mhz gives the greatest output.

Principal resonances with load to ground::
With symmetrical 15pf load to ground on the output the principal resonance was reduced to 9.4 Mhz. Both 1/3 and 1/4 sub harmonics were present. The 1/4 frequency (2.34Mhz) now give the highest output. The waveform of the 2.34Mhz resonance is a rounded triangle wave indicating 3rd harmonic (almost a text book example of triangle wave synthesis with first and third harmonic components). The principal resonance was observed directly and in ringing on square wave drive at lower frequencies. Measurements of the frequency on the ringing confirmed the presence of a single principal resonant mode.

At all times the signals on the load were in phase but had a DC offset.

Single and double ended drive::
The circuit works similarly with single or double ended drive to the primary.

All tests were done with a HP33120A signal generator (10 Vp-p output). Measurements were made with Tektronix TAS 475 scope (100MHz 4 trace). Unless indicated otherwise all scope measurements were done with 10X scope probes with tips held close to leads to eliminate load effects on the measured circuit.

The next tests will look at antenna transformer ? number and direction of turns in the primary and secondary and alternate cores. I will also measure the Q of the principal resonance. Load tests will look at inductive influences.

Cheers

mark.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 03, 2007, 02:03:12 AM
I don't know whether to be alarmed or just disappointed, but I tried to re-view Cold Electricity Part 9, and could no longer find it anywhere!!??

:-\

KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 02:07:21 AM
Hi Mark,
many thanks for the tests.
Yes around 12 Mhz I also get now the best light output, but still better when the core is removed.
As I only have a 10 Mhz scope the measurements have to be done with the horizontal 5x zoom factor, as my deflection time only goes to 0.5 usec.
The new IC 40106 is now much better and I will later post pictures and a new video.
But I still think I dont have the right cores, cause I dont get any amplification...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 02:16:24 AM
P.S. I still have a few ferrite fridge magnets laying around here.
I will later also wound 2 coils around them and try these.
Ben, did you use Litz wire for the primary coil in your magnet-coil setup ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 03, 2007, 02:23:05 AM
I don't know whether to be alarmed or just disappointed, but I tried to re-view Cold Electricity Part 9, and could no longer find it anywhere!!??

:-\

KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops

Its still where it was put?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 03, 2007, 02:38:18 AM
@Mark
Thanks for the detailed test report.

I am having limited success.
Signal generator, HP 33250A, voltage 10 V. Oscilloscope Tektronix TDS2014B.

Using the specified core.
I can light up red LEDs not very bright at 3.610 MHz. Neon light up occasionally. Generally the circuit behavior is very itratic. I can not light up blue LEDs.

I have not observed much difference between square wave or sine wave.
I tried driving up to 20 MHz slowly but no cookies.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on November 03, 2007, 02:54:17 AM
@Mark
Thanks for the detailed test report. I am having limited success.
Signal generator, HP 33250A, voltage 10 V. Oscilloscope Tektronix TDS2014B.

Using the specified core.
I can light up red LEDs not very bright at 3.610 MHz. Neon light up occasionally. Generally the circuit behavior is very itratic. I can not light up blue LEDs.

From my breif experience I would say:

3.6 MHz is probably the 1/4 harmonic and is best stimulated with square wave. THat would put the fundamental at about 14.4 Mhz.
When driving at 3.6 Mhz with square wave prove the output at the common base of the AP by placing the scope probe tip close to the wire. The signal will only be in the mv range but it should be clean. Is it a rounded triangle wave? ... if it is then this is the 1/4 sub harmonic.

To get much higher output and more reliable opperation clip two scope leads (10X) to the output LED. This will shift the resoances lower but does dramaticaly increace output voltage.

Mark.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 03, 2007, 02:58:32 AM
@MarkSnoswell

Pardon me for being presumptuous, but I believe we know each other, that is, we have known each other for a long time. If I recall correctly we used to be on some 3dsmax plugins beta teams and what not and we know the same people. Or perhaps a hint would be 3DLuVr?

Just the most unlikely place that we'd meet after so many years, did not know you had interest in alternative energy.

Sorry to be off topic...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 03, 2007, 03:02:15 AM
In other news, I have fixed my Wavetek 191 so it fully works now with all waveforms. Prior owners have done a botchy job in replacing the BNC female connector and there was no contact.

My resonance are found around 11MHz and 19MHz, will find out exactly soon. I still do not see my neon light up...humbug.

EDIT: resonances at ~3.01MHz and ~9.51MHz
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 03, 2007, 03:15:01 AM
@Mark
Thanks again. My observations were only with the signal generator attached. If the scope is connected the OP seems quite strong. The Blue LED turns on quite nicely then.

@DrStiffler,
I have a batch of the 680uH cores and as they are the critical part of this investigation I wanted to clear up a few points.

1- The number turns you specified at 9 turns but I count 11 in the picture.
2- You did say that the sense of the L3 should be the same as the L2 core. Please can you verify that. Either my L2 cores are wound the wrong way by the manufacturer or the  image may be mirrored somehow.
3- You use a symbol for the L2-L3 combination which indicates 3 different windings. L2, as arrives from the supplier only has one winding. Am I missing something?

regards

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 03, 2007, 03:32:19 AM
[
Its still where it was put?

Thank you Ron for posting the link. Must have been a glitch in my IE ???
I've added it straight to my favourites folder.

Fascinating stuff! Eagerly awaiting the next "Chapter"!  :)

KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 05:31:45 AM
Okay, hereare for now already 4 pictures of my new tests.

I just rewired the 10 turn coil around the Litzwire coil into the other
direction and guess what, I for the first time saw
now the neon bulb glowing really bright,
but only, when I don?t use the core...
Hmm...

Check this out.
The winding direction of the 2 coils seems to be very important !

I also recorded 2 videos while playing with the setup
and you can see, how I suddenly stumbled onto the
neon bulb glowing brightly for the first time.
But you will also see, that the LED still is brighter,
just without my cores...just the coils alone...

I have toconvert now the videos from the camera format
to amore commom format.
Stay tuned.
Maybe I could buy from Ron a verified core, so
I could really test it with the amplification...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 05:40:31 AM
P.S.: My AM Litzwire coil has indeed 2 coils on there, one larger turn coil
and one smaller turn coil,cause it also was used for longwave in the

So you see 4 litzwires coming from the coil plus 2 wires from the 10 turn coil around it.

The thing at the right side after the big red 470 pF  is the 2.2uH coil,
it looks like a resistor but is actually a coil.

I had modified the 40106 oscillator circuit this way, that I have now
only 3 hex-inverter drivers in parallel and am using
2 inverters after the single oscillator inverter to
"sharpen and fasten" the waveform.

Maybe as the circuit seems not to need much current,
I should only use one inverter as the output driver and
use all the others to fasten the waveform ?
I will try this later...

The scope you see shows about 12 Mhz waveform.
I used in this test a powersupply with 12 Volts DC
and the amplifier on the scope is set to 5 volts /div,so
the AC amplitude was about 8  to 9 Volts peak to peak.
It was measured at the last driver output directly.
the scope ground was connected to the circuit ground.
The scope was grounded, but I did not need now the
metal mesh what I normally used at one LED pin.

The ground line of the scope was directly in the center of the scope screen.
If you have questions please let me know,but maybe you will
just wait for the 2 videos.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 06:44:20 AM
P.S. if somebody wonders,
I only have a 100:1divider scope head connected at the scope.

So, now the first new video is online at:

http://www.overunity.com/stiffler/stiffler_harti02.avi

It uses the newer DIVX.COM  video codec and MP3 audio codec.

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 03, 2007, 07:23:11 AM
@hartberlin
Congratulations Stefan. Good job.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 07:24:21 AM
Okay, now also the last movie is online:

http://www.overunity.com/stiffler/stiffler_harti03.avi

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 09:24:00 AM
Okay, my videos are now also online at Youtube
over here:

Enjoy !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 03, 2007, 10:35:07 AM
Stefan,
Thank you for the report. So in your experiment you did not need the core after all. Are you talking TPU now?!

Is your scopes power input ground floating or connected to the eartth of the mains?

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on November 03, 2007, 11:13:55 AM
I want to take this opportunity to voice my highest respect for Dr. Stiffler AND 'the whole team' that has gathered in the operating theater.

...
http://www.overunity.com/stiffler/stiffler_harti03.avi

@hartiberlin
I watched your video, harti, and noticed that you use very long cores together with a relatively short coil. You insert the core so that it protrudes very far beyond the left side of the coil and stands out only very short beyond the other side of the coil.
Maybe it would make a difference if you positioned the coil symmetrically in the center of the core.
Note that Dr. Stiffler's 'magic coil' is also wound symmetrically over the middle of the core.

Thanks again to everybody.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 03, 2007, 12:17:06 PM
P.S. I still have a few ferrite fridge magnets laying around here.
I will later also wound 2 coils around them and try these.
Ben, did you use Litz wire for the primary coil in your magnet-coil setup ?

No for the initial device I used 300T #32 for the secondary and 50T (now reduced to 10T) for the primary, my understanding of how the unit worked at that time was faulted, have learned a lot more since then.  I believe my magnet core has very low activity (some) but not much.  Even then though, it does show small 4/1 gain. At the mw range we are working in, that is just a small but very important whistle in the dark.

In reading the next series of post down below it is obvious that a few points are being missed.  The AV "plug" theory is alive and well and is fairly easy to replicate using basically any frequency if you have high enough voltage. It is simply a longitudinal wave device and works very well as a 1 wire transducer/rectifier ETC but that is really off topic.  BUT it is also a very good longitudinal wave impedance converter for the output of the BF......

The excitation of the core of the BF AM radio core is a little more difficult to do but I see a lot of people working on it.  I also noticed someone suggested that the basic frequency was in the 14-18 MHz range and I am beginning to suspect that too as one of the units Dr. Stiffler built that self Osc. was producing a burst around 18 MHz if I remember correct.  It is early here coffee just starting to sink in.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 03, 2007, 12:27:54 PM
Okay, my videos are now also online at Youtube
over here:

Enjoy !

Regards, Stefan.
Good morning Stefan, Looked at your videos on Youtube NOW put the core back in and vary frequency, you should get an output on the large winding when you hit the right freq. somewhere between 4-10Mhz!  Very good work. The tuning will be fairly sharp within 3-400 KHz.  Outside that resonant frequency (resonant frequency of the BF excititation/coil) no output.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 03, 2007, 01:28:04 PM
Hi All,

Doing some basic looking and thinking this AM.  In playing (my wife says I'm playing) the more I realize how important the scope shots in Dr. Stifflers article on his web page are.  Everything is there that we need to know if we will just digest it!

There IS a basic resonance frequency for the BF coil/CORE device.  That is where its output is!  I now suspect that the input L/C circuit must match that frequency for maximum output.  My core resonatesor pumps @ around 8 MHZ but my L/C resonates @ 5 MHz so I see most output around that 5MHz frequency due to to the HV generated by it at that freq. in spite of the mismatch.   I must re-resonate my L/C circuit @ the base frequency of the BF core and see what happens.  I'm going to put a variable cap. to replace the 400 pf I have in there right now, give or take and see if this "theory" is correct.

I also see the burst effect where the BF coil pumps out a cycle (now you know I'm old) every 3-4 Hz depending on the input frequency....You live and die with this thing via a scope.

Actually now I'm turning off everything.  Wife wants to go to Flea Market and I am going downtown to the the annual "Strictly Sail" sailboat show in St. Petersburg, FL......150 NEW way outta my price range sailboats (\$100K--Million+++) and oodles of goodles (stuff) to put on them...A man can dream....Will get back to this tonight.  Thats all for this AM.

Ben

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on November 03, 2007, 01:55:51 PM
There IS a basic resonance frequency for the BF coil/CORE device.  That is where its output is!  I now suspect that the input L/C circuit must match that frequency for maximum output.  ... I'm going to put a variable cap. to replace the 400 pf I have in there right now, give or take and see if this "theory" is correct.

The fundamental resonance appears to come from the inductance of the secondary and the junction capacitance of the IN4148 diodes. I have attached the datasheet here. The secondary sees a complex capacitance from the two AP diodes -- however even a sinple LC resonance calculation shows that the figures agree pretty well. Here is a link to a good LC resonance calculator http://www.pronine.ca/lcf.htm.  If you want to tune further then set up a resonator on the primary side for the same frequency...

You could try to tune the two just out of phase -- this will result in the power beating between the input and output -- exactly the same as in good tesla coil design. This may work better than exact tuning as the total power transfered wont be any less but the higher voltages at the AP may reduce losses in power transfer there. It's hard to predict and the tight coupling of the primary and secondary may limit this aproach.

Whatever you do -- tuning the primary side to the same frequency will certainty reduce losses in the AP and inprove power transfer.

cheers

mark.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 03, 2007, 01:56:42 PM
@Mark
Thanks again. My observations were only with the signal generator attached. If the scope is connected the OP seems quite strong. The Blue LED turns on quite nicely then.

@DrStiffler,
I have a batch of the 680uH cores and as they are the critical part of this investigation I wanted to clear up a few points.

1- The number turns you specified at 9 turns but I count 11 in the picture.
2- You did say that the sense of the L3 should be the same as the L2 core. Please can you verify that. Either my L2 cores are wound the wrong way by the manufacturer or the  image may be mirrored somehow.
3- You use a symbol for the L2-L3 combination which indicates 3 different windings. L2, as arrives from the supplier only has one winding. Am I missing something?

regards

AM
The coil issue is covered earlier in the thread and on my web site, but the primary needs to be wound in the sane direction as the secondary.

The diagram although looking like two coils on the secondary is meant only to show that the secondary has more turns than the primary.

To find out if you did wrap one wrong, look t my site, I have a whole section on how this was found and solved.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 08:32:42 PM
Stefan,
Thank you for the report. So in your experiment you did not need the core after all. Are you talking TPU now?!

Is your scopes power input ground floating or connected to the eartth of the mains?

AM

Yes, my crappy scope is grounded unfortunately.
I have to glue some tape onto the ground wire, so it is isolated.
I will do this today and will see, if it makes a difference.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 08:35:52 PM
I want to take this opportunity to voice my highest respect for Dr. Stiffler AND 'the whole team' that has gathered in the operating theater.

...
http://www.overunity.com/stiffler/stiffler_harti03.avi

@hartiberlin
I watched your video, harti, and noticed that you use very long cores together with a relatively short coil. You insert the core so that it protrudes very far beyond the left side of the coil and stands out only very short beyond the other side of the coil.
Maybe it would make a difference if you positioned the coil symmetrically in the center of the core.
Note that Dr. Stiffler's 'magic coil' is also wound symmetrically over the middle of the core.

Thanks again to everybody.

Yes,I tried it already and only at the end of the core I get better brightness than in the center..
Do you think it would be good to break thecore apart and make it shorter ?
Maybe it depends on the length of the core also ?

Maybe some kind of standing wave inside the core ?
This would give a whole new perspective to it all and
the input frequency alsomust be choosen to have a standing
wave inside the core ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 08:57:37 PM
Dear Ben,
well with my selfbuilt oscillator the tuning is not easy.
I have to get the trim-capacitors to turn right and the frequency
can also still shift a bit.

I have 2 trim capacitors in parallel,
this one, 3 to 40 pF :

(http://www.segor.de/bilder/000013a1.jpg)
and
this one, 6 to 80 pF:
(http://www.segor.de/bilder/0000141b.jpg)

In the loop back of the inverter I have a 100 Ohm resistor.

Then I tried to replace the 100 Ohm resistor with a 100 Ohm pot and
75 Ohm resistor in series, everytime I touched the pot it
changed the frequency dramatically, so I am better with the fixed
100 Ohm resistor and the trim caps.

Maybe I should buy better equipment to get myself a better
function generator.
I will see, what I can find on Ebay Germany.
Or maybe I will hack my old function generator to queeze a few more Mhz out
of it... I will see..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 09:36:08 PM
Dr. Stiffler has just updated his website with
a higher power incand. bulb output experiment.

Have a look at his new scopeshots.

Reminds me a lot at the scopeshots that Roberto und Otto
got  in their TPU research...

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 01:38:46 AM
Dr. Stiffler has just updated his website with
a higher power incand. bulb output experiment.

Have a look at his new scopeshots.

Reminds me a lot at the scopeshots that Roberto und Otto
got  in their TPU research...

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Regards, Stefan.
Good evening Stefan, Dr. Stiffler and all,

Well messing around this evening some more and some interesting results but first, I don't see the schematic of the High Power Unit on the web page, it is pretty straightforward but seems to be missing.

Second, I show a schematic of where I am right now.  Notice CX (C2) this provides positive regenerative feedback and when the circuit is tuned dead on, significant more output in my unit.  I only offer it for reference.  You can see that with C-1 now, I can peak the L/C circuit to match the L2/L3/Cx circuit.  This is just a start to see if my idea worked.......CX is .047uf mylar in my case.  I have no idea if that is optimal.  Just something to think about while I wait for good coils to come in.

Oh, Stefan, I heartly recomment you get a good Sig generator of at least 20 Mhz and probably from what I see on the scope shots from Dr. S, 50 Mhz!.  Your circuit is great but you need a GOOD TUNABLE device it sure makes life easier!
Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 02:55:45 AM
Hi Ben,
interesting feedback.

Will try it tommorow.
I have to go earlier to bed now in the next days, so I just don?t live at nights only... ;D

You can buy it as a kit for a built kit ready to go.

http://www.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=6325

But it only goes to 20 Mhz.

Maybe Ron can tell us, what the highest frequency is, that is required ?

But I will also have a look at ebay.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 06:12:19 AM
Hi Ben,
interesting feedback.

Will try it tommorow.
I have to go earlier to bed now in the next days, so I just don?t live at nights only... ;D

You can buy it as a kit for a built kit ready to go.

http://www.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=6325

But it only goes to 20 Mhz.

Maybe Ron can tell us, what the highest frequency is, that is required ?

But I will also have a look at ebay.

Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan,

I know what you mean about sleep.  It is 1:09 A.M.  I have spent the last 7 hours humped over a scope and trying to better understand this circuit.  It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.  It appears that it has to be a potential fed circuit and not a current fed circuit.  Everything seems to depend on it having the least switching current @ the highest potential into the open ended device whereupon output potential is converted into current via the AV plug. The LC circuit basically takes the low impedance of the sig. gen and converts it to HV RF to drive the BF coil hence the AV plug.

Generator looks good but if you can get a HP, Tecktronic,  B&K, or any good RF sig generator that has a good power supply and well shielded would be better in the long run.

If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU.  Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed but I suspect that procedure is faulted.  If you keep the impedance/resistance low in the input circuit, drive with pure potential switching back and forth power flows via the longitudinal potential only waves.  I'm up to about .166 Watt output now, very bright 10 LEDs with virtually no input current (I think) trying to find/buy a RF probe to get a more accurate series of voltages across the circuit.....Hummmmm just had another idea..Going to wait till tomorrow................Man I'm pooped, tired...... going to sleep on it......I'm gone to bed.

73's

Ben K4ZEP

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on November 04, 2007, 07:50:33 AM
If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU.  Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed

Raising the input resistance is one of the best ways to measure input characteristics in dificult to measure circuits... you keep raising the input resistance untill the output drops to 50% -- this tells you the input impedance of the circuit.

If the circuit was running in a potential only drive mode then you could raise the input impedance a long way -- to say M ohms or at least 100's K ohms, before the output dropped to 50%. The fact that you cant raise the input impedance much indicates that the circuit really requires a significant current to drive it...  This makes sense as it appears to be a seris LC resonant circuit which will give high voltage rise but needs a very low impedance to drive it. You could think of it as a low to high impedance matching network -- this is a great way to generate high voltages from low voltage (current mostly) drive without a transformer. Voltage gains are only limited by the impedance ratio and the Q. Google "impedance matching network" for more information.

mark.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 04, 2007, 02:04:06 PM
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 04, 2007, 03:32:13 PM
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

Quote from: RStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:10:15 PM

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.

Gee, back to try again, and here we thought you were a man that stood behind his word. Guess not?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 04, 2007, 03:44:24 PM
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

Quote from: RStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:10:15 PM

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.

Gee, back to try again, and here we thought you were a man that stood behind his word. Guess not?

It's a reasonable question and directed toward making it possible for people to replicate the circuit. If you really want to give this to the world, why don't you publish enough detail to enable people to replicate it?

I'm not asking the experimenters to waste time on my questions, I'm asking you, the only person who knows exactly what your circuit consists of, to give the experimenters the information they need to replicate it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 03:53:43 PM
Good Morning Dr. Snoswell,

The problem with being older is not what you remember but what you forget.  I forgot the simple test of increasing non inductive resistance in an input RF circuit till output drops to 50% as the simple test for impedance!!!!!

To make a long story short, but after a heck of a lot of test as it takes time to figure out how to work with this circuit, I find that the imput impedance of my circuit is very close to 250 ohms.  I will say that I have verified that 2 different ways.

Working @ RF frequencies, the waveform degradation due to working a fundamental and harmonics of wavelengths, the diode drops, the LED drops, all allows multitudes of factors to be taken into account in this circuit when trying to calculate Input Vs. Output.  It would appear that the circuit is still OU but at the mw range, measurements are tedious at best. This circuit can drive you crazy but unless the coil "pings" and puts out the goodies it is no banana!

I'm going to clean up my small workspace now and wait for the good coils to come in, should be in early next week.  I am MOST interested in the dual push pull circuit that works ONLY from a ground lead and self Osc!!!!!  The AV plug doesn't care a darn about what is feeding it, it just pumps away and provides its own loading in there.  IF the BF coil adds to the feedthrough, that is where the gravy is!!!!!

Ben

If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU.  Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed

Raising the input resistance is one of the best ways to measure input characteristics in dificult to measure circuits... you keep raising the input resistance untill the output drops to 50% -- this tells you the input impedance of the circuit.

If the circuit was running in a potential only drive mode then you could raise the input impedance a long way -- to say M ohms or at least 100's K ohms, before the output dropped to 50%. The fact that you cant raise the input impedance much indicates that the circuit really requires a significant current to drive it...  This makes sense as it appears to be a seris LC resonant circuit which will give high voltage rise but needs a very low impedance to drive it. You could think of it as a low to high impedance matching network -- this is a great way to generate high voltages from low voltage (current mostly) drive without a transformer. Voltage gains are only limited by the impedance ratio and the Q. Google "impedance matching network" for more information.

mark.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on November 04, 2007, 03:54:38 PM
I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

He has published complete specs.  What you have here is a bunch of people not doing exactly what he said.  You don't really expect him to write more detail that people don't follow, do you?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 04, 2007, 03:54:53 PM
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

Quote from: RStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:10:15 PM

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

And you ARE? The untimate authority fro all and keeper of the faith.

If you were able to read a schematic and a parts list, duplicate as stated (exact) then even you could build one.

Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.

Gee, back to try again, and here we thought you were a man that stood behind his word. Guess not?

It's a reasonable question and directed toward making it possible for people to replicate the circuit. If you really want to give this to the world, why don't you publish enough detail to enable people to replicate it?

I'm not asking the experimenters to waste time on my questions, I'm asking you, the only person who knows exactly what your circuit consists of, to give the experimenters the information they need to replicate it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 04, 2007, 04:05:31 PM
I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

He has published complete specs.  What you have here is a bunch of people not doing exactly what he said.  You don't really expect him to write more detail that people don't follow, do you?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

If that's true, then it is the incompetence of the experimenters that we are seeing. But I have the impression that these are knowledgeable people, who can build a device from good specs.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on November 04, 2007, 04:10:15 PM
And many of them are! calm down and watch.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 04:47:28 PM
And many of them are! calm down and watch.
Hi All,

I agree.  Don't get in a tizzy and don't anyone put out any "Wedggies".  There are OBVIOUSLY a lot of good well versed folk out there.  I can't say how much good input and theoretical help I have received from several people.  Calculating the basic free air input impedance/resistance is a big help in understand this VERY strange circuit.  I have played with many circuits over the years and this ones beats all.

It is strange because the AV plug does neat things in thin air that are reflected back on the input.  Knowing the input voltage, resistance and hence current really enables you to make some fairly good calculations in some respect.  Every few min I work with this, better ways to calculate and use the circuit comes up.  I stopped and cleaned up my 2X4 Shop and had an new idea.

It seems the more you isolate the whole circuit, remove parasitic capacitance, the more efficient it becomes.  Dr. Stiffler mentioned that to me in one of his post.  IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.  I have now chopped off both of my leads that are not used in the BF coil and placed coil up on wood block away from plate capacitance of backplain.  Another strange thing, it seems the output of the AV plug is a constant current source till you exceed the max peak voltage put out by the large coil on the BF core.  Dead shorted I can get 25 ma out of the AV plug.......IF you look back at the input of 22V @ 250 ohms,, funny numbers...........I still don't know if you take the theoretical input power and always use that power IN from gen in your calculations of the output.  Depending on my loading, I get a COP of from 4 to about 10 to one.  Again, loading of a AV plug is a curious thing.  It just is unsettling.?

Sure could use some theoretical help here.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 04, 2007, 06:04:03 PM
Ben,
You may know this already but this is another way to measure input impedance (see attachment):

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 04, 2007, 06:38:33 PM
Ben,
Equations are wrong. Please ignore my last post. I will try to fix them.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 04, 2007, 07:15:25 PM
Ben,
Well, I thought I saw a mistake, but they seem to be OK. You should probably check for yourself to be sure. It has been a while since I have done this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 07:53:04 PM
There IS a basic resonance frequency for the BF coil/CORE device.  That is where its output is!  I now suspect that the input L/C circuit must match that frequency for maximum output.  ... I'm going to put a variable cap. to replace the 400 pf I have in there right now, give or take and see if this "theory" is correct.

The fundamental resonance appears to come from the inductance of the secondary and the junction capacitance of the IN4148 diodes. I have attached the datasheet here. The secondary sees a complex capacitance from the two AP diodes -- however even a sinple LC resonance calculation shows that the figures agree pretty well. Here is a link to a good LC resonance calculator http://www.pronine.ca/lcf.htm.  If you want to tune further then set up a resonator on the primary side for the same frequency...

You could try to tune the two just out of phase -- this will result in the power beating between the input and output -- exactly the same as in good tesla coil design. This may work better than exact tuning as the total power transfered wont be any less but the higher voltages at the AP may reduce losses in power transfer there. It's hard to predict and the tight coupling of the primary and secondary may limit this aproach.

Whatever you do -- tuning the primary side to the same frequency will certainty reduce losses in the AP and inprove power transfer.

cheers

mark.

Hi Mark,
many thanks for posting the 1N4148 spec PDF file.
I didn?t know, that they are this fast( about 4 ns switch time), I thought
they would be as slow as a normal 1N4007...

I have at my  Avramenko Plug LED just DC voltage behind the
1 x 1N4148 diodes.

Ben, how much voltage do you have there with your  design,
when you draw 25 milliamps ?

What is the maximum power output you can draw from the
AP via a constant load resistor ?
Many thanks.

P.S: Dr.Stiffler has so far put great effort in documenting the circuits
and effects, so bear with him,if he did not yet publish all.
It really takes times to document it all and we arenow still in the
phase to find the right parameters,so documentation comes at the
last step..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 07:55:14 PM
Here is  an interesting 20  Mhz function generator
with all circuit board PCB layout and all you need to know
to build it with the MAX038 IC.

If you squeeze it it can also go up to about 25 to 30Mhz the author
said...

http://alternatezone.com/electronics/hsfg.htm

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 04, 2007, 08:00:36 PM
Ben,
I suspect that L1 adds enough inductance to force the impedance looking into it to be inductive. Then C1 cancels the inductive reactance so that the impedance looking into C1 is pure real at resonance. This allows more power from generator to be used since all of the voltage is going across a real impedance. I no longer have a lab so I can not check this myself.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 09:24:30 PM
Hi Gang,

This is getting deep fast!  Got to do some thinking.  Right now I'm hitting a wall on the device.  Too bad I had to get rid of my lifetime of reference material when I moved to the condo in FL.  Now I have to use NET as reference source.  Sometimes knowing what to ask is as hard as measuring it.

Output is pretty easy to measure across the low impedance of the AV plug/LED/Cap device, Input is a BITCH!  There is series Inductive and capacitive reactance and the resultant phase shift or lack of it!  Then there is the actual waveform @ the input. Then too, what do you use as the common to keep it real!  Does it all reflect back across the L & C reluctance too and Through the generator to ground or the parasitic capacitance to ground.  I haven't worried about complex nodal RF circuits in 40-45 years. .Probably easiest way would be to build a good simple unity FET RF driver with good isolation and decoupling and measure pure DC power into it like Dr. Stiffler does......Arrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggg. Charley Brown.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 09:32:08 PM
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 09:33:05 PM
Ben,
I suspect that L1 adds enough inductance to force the impedance looking into it to be inductive. Then C1 cancels the inductive reactance so that the impedance looking into C1 is pure real at resonance. This allows more power from generator to be used since all of the voltage is going across a real impedance. I no longer have a lab so I can not check this myself.
That is very logical and basically the way I look at it. How do you show the return path for the RF?????  Logically and to the core that is what bugs me more than anything!  I realize @ 7-10 MHz, capacitive reactance builds up fast and might be the return path for all the parasitic elements in the circuit.   Current peaks and voltage dips @ resonance around the input.  It always boils down to the fine points.  For my self who is more of a puttering builder, (darn it, this is JUST a hobby) I have always disliked the documenting of devices like this!  But then there comes a time like this........

Ben..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 10:03:01 PM
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:

Great jumping Jehoshaphat...I have been worrying about a return ground, latest schematic shows everything with a common ground!  Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't,  I.............do.................sheeesssssssh...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 04, 2007, 10:03:05 PM
Ben,
I would think that the best place to use for a return would be the generator ground return since the impedance the generator output sees is referenced to that point and you are trying to determine how much power is coming out of the generator (what load it sees).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 10:05:00 PM
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:

The 555 is is not a good chip for this.  But either way, glad to see the func-gen gone.  I asked before and saw clearly Dr. S said no func-gen and all the post I hear about the freq from the func-gen.

The VCC and ground on the circuit can tell what power is put in and the Rl can tell output power.

I would still check it with a scope.  Also, 20Mhz?  That is a 555 timer, it ain't going there?  Maybe a new one is out that I have not heard about (but they have not done anything with that hobby timer chip for years)?

Last, the N-channel FETs are not a problem, or the Q's. but again confused on the 2 coils (with or without a core), with no values (rough ones posted if I read or have Ebay) and still I see that L3 in there..  Are there values for them?  Is the L3 a choke or something thrown in?  Like the first version or starting points?

I have not and will not build it until there are clear specs (and yes I have these parts and the same proto board).

But looks like it is getting closer.  Will pop in soon and see where all are.

Ben, where in Florida PM me.

555 for the 1Hz. discharge, I'm In St. Petersburg, FL

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 10:11:45 PM
Yes, the Rload in his circuit is his incand. bulb that is energized
every second once, when the cap is full via the 555  chip 1 Hz generator.

Hmm, Ben, do you also get at your AP LED a DC voltage, when you don?t have
a cap there ?

Normally I would have expected a pulsed DC, but I have a pure DC without a cap there,
just looked with the scope only directly at the LED...
Hmm..radio frequency circuits are really strange sometimes..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 11:31:16 PM
Yes, the Rload in his circuit is his incand. bulb that is energized
every second once, when the cap is full via the 555  chip 1 Hz generator.

Hmm, Ben, do you also get at your AP LED a DC voltage, when you don?t have
a cap there ?Yes I do, enough parasitic cap. @ 10 MHz to integrate the pulsations.  Cap will also charge up if you replace the LED's with it.  Just watch out, voltage can get pretty high on it.  Mine goes above 100VDC in several seconds.  Dr. Stiffler's must be a barn burner to charge over 600uf to 120V in 1 second!!!

Normally I would have expected a pulsed DC, but I have a pure DC without a cap there,
just looked with the scope only directly at the LED...
Hmm..radio frequency circuits are really strange sometimes..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 11:33:51 PM
So a 555 with nothing on the threshold, discharge and trigger runs at 1hz?  News to me.  But I do not use them a lot.That part missing but standard pots and cap.  Short on time. (Inverted)

The the other side of the circuit is the osc. OK.

It does not matter still as VCC and ground you can see the input current and Rload the output.  And no telling what that 555 will do floating like that.  Circuit imcomplete, look at photos, you will see what is missing.

This is a long way away from the first couple circuits, but still listening..  Just glad there is no function generator hooked to it.

At least now it is getting to a point where I can build one, after I see more components on the 555 :)  Still like to see values on the schematic for L1/L2/L3 as well.  I have to antique radios (AM only before FM) that I do not need.

And Stefan said it worked as well without the core.  This still the case? I have not pulled them out :)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 05, 2007, 01:57:55 AM
So a 555 with nothing on the threshold, discharge and trigger runs at 1hz?  News to me.  But I do not use them a lot.

The the other side of the circuit is the osc. OK.

It does not matter still as VCC and ground you can see the input current and Rload the output.  And no telling what that 555 will do floating like that.

This is a long way away from the first couple circuits, but still listening..  Just glad there is no function generator hooked to it.

At least now it is getting to a point where I can build one, after I see more components on the 555 :)  Still like to see values on the schematic for L1/L2/L3 as well.  I have to antique radios (AM only before FM) that I do not need.

And Stefan said it worked as well without the core.  This still the case? I have not pulled them out :)

Really! If you need help in making a 555 pulse 50% duty cycle, 2 R's and one capacitor. Please don't waste your time with my circuits, this is the simplest part of any of them.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: smoky on November 05, 2007, 02:14:46 AM
In Dr Stifflers circuit above the Emitter seems to be shorted to the Base divider network.
It looks like a Colpits oscillator so I guess it shoud be open at this point?
Smoky
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 05, 2007, 09:10:21 AM
@Ron,
Is L1 (2.2u)  air core?

Regards, AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on November 05, 2007, 09:53:07 AM
If someone want understand, I share my equations investigation:
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07d.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07d.html)

Every coil has self-transforming properties. Frequency generator on one end will give high voltage on the other. This is main principle for Tesla's 3-th coil voltage amplifier (magnify coil). It don't need closed loop circuit.

Important is knowledge about splitting frequency in two (one of them can become very high, if k is near 1):
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07g.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07g.html)

Dr. Steffler has build interesting things. Maybe he has k near 1 (because of core), and strange effect, when f2=f/sqrt(1-k) go to infinite.
Maybe in nature 'infinite' mean something  new.

I have some strange effect with my work:
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02f.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02f.html)

Generator for excitement can be HF bulb, with Al-foil around bulb (without touch, only around).

I think that this device will became better if put another 2 diodes and capacity with plate in the air. Air has free electrons and ions, and cosmic rays are charge them with energy.
Ground is good, but it need plate in air too, for collecting that air energy (LED diodes has some low surface, and some capacity too).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 05, 2007, 10:10:01 AM
@Ron,
Is L1 (2.2u)  air core?

Regards, AM

Looks like it in the pictures.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 05, 2007, 10:13:46 AM
If someone want understand, I share my equations investigation:
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07d.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07d.html)

Every coil has self-transforming properties. Frequency generator on one end will give high voltage on the other. This is main principle for Tesla's 3-th coil voltage amplifier (magnify coil). It don't need closed loop circuit.

Important is knowledge about splitting frequency in two (one of them can become very high, if k is near 1):
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07g.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07g.html)

Dr. Steffler has build interesting things. Maybe he has k near 1 (because of core), and strange effect, when f2=f/sqrt(1-k) go to infinite.
Maybe in nature 'infinite' mean something  new.

I have some strange effect with my work:
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02f.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02f.html)

Generator for excitement can be HF bulb, with Al-foil around bulb (without touch, only around).

I think that this device will became better if put another 2 diodes and capacity with plate in the air. Air has free electrons and ions, and cosmic rays are charge them with energy.
Ground is good, but it need plate in air too, for collecting that air energy (LED diodes has some low surface, and some capacity too).

Dr. Stifflers most challanging circuit is the double push pull working ONLY from the ground.  By your math, it appears you have really looked into the Tesla devices!  Most excellent and glad to see your post.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on November 05, 2007, 11:29:21 AM
k4zep,

Yes, I am most interesting in 2 core + ground part of Dr. Stiffler work, too.
If it can work, just put capacity with 2 diodes more, and discharge this capacity in some interval, it will be good for collecting that energy. It will become new source of energy for charging battery (hybrid car...). 4 diodes and capacity can collect energy, and with interval of discharging can control output voltage (I easy come to 40 V with standard HF bulb, and foil around, with 1 m2 plate). I am interesting in making light, but I am more interesting in making energy.
Nikola Tesla has mechanical rectifier (and no barriers problem for collecting energy) , and this is his approach.
Put all this stuff together ( if they work ) we will have usable energy source.

Tesla was found some new energy source too:

"I have harnessed the cosmic rays and caused them to operate a motive device. Cosmic ray investigation is a subject that is very close to me. I was the first to discover these rays and I naturally feel toward them as I would toward my own flesh and blood. I have advanced a theory of the cosmic rays and at every step of my investigations I have found it completely justified. The attractive features of the cosmic rays is their constancy. They shower down on us throughout the whole 24 hours, and if a plant is developed to use their power it will not require devices for storing energy as would be necessary with devices using wind, tide or sunlight. All of my investigations seem to point to the conclusion that they are small particles, each carrying so small a charge that we are justified in calling them neutrons. They move with great velocity, exceeding that of light. More than 25 years ago I began my efforts to harness the cosmic rays and I can now state that I have succeeded in operating a motive device by means of them. I will tell you in the most general way, the cosmic ray ionizes the air, setting free many charges ions and electrons. These charges are captured in a condenser which is made to discharge through the circuit of the motor. I have hopes of building my motor on a large scale, but circumstances have not been favorable to carrying out my plan." ( Brooklyn Eagle July 10, 1932. )
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on November 05, 2007, 01:30:52 PM
In Dr Stifflers circuit above the Emitter seems to be shorted to the Base divider network.
It looks like a Colpits oscillator so I guess it shoud be open at this point?
Smoky

Yes, you are right. There should not be wire connection between emitter and base in that schematics, it is obviously a misprint.

There is another version of  the Colpitts oscillator where the capacitive divider (C1 and C2) is placed between the base (or gate in case of FET) and the common ground and in that case the connection from the emitter (or source in case of a FET) to the middle point of the capacitive divider is justified,  see like here:
http://n-old.ethz.ch/student/rodonil/da/bericht/node28.html

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 05:40:55 AM
I am getting now also about 20 Volts p-p behind L1. But then the AP LED is brightest, when I dont use L2 and  L3 at all. Just from the oscillator via  470 pF and 2.2 uH to the AP.
Then from one Pin of the LED to a iron metal plate gives me the brighest LED so far. More in about 10 hours.
Now to sleep.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 03:14:09 PM
Okay,
I made some new test today.

I just don?t have the right cores.

I asked Dr. Stiffler, if he would sell me a "working" coil-core
combination, but as he has got only 5 working core-coil combinations,
he declined saying that he still needs them for verification
with other parties involved.
I can fully understand this.
I will now try to buy some core-coils via Ebay.

I am now at around 27 Mhz working frequency
and the higher you go it seems to be getting better with the
Avramenko plug with my 2 x 1N4148 diodes.
At least for me 27 Mhz was better than around 10 Mhz.
The LEDs are just brighter.

Okay, I tried various setups but always the combination of capacitor
and 2.2 uH coil at the output before going into the AP was the best setup.
All the ferrite cores I had and also some ferrite magnets did not give better
brightness.
I now chained 10 blue LED diodes in series in the AP.
One pin of the AP is connected to power supply PLUS voltage
and then the circuit draws around 25 mA at 12 Volts, that gives about 300 milliWatts draw
from my powersupply.

When I remove the AP from the circuit , the circuit draws 17 mA, which is about 200 milliWatts.

I can light up these 10 LEDs pretty bright with the difference power of 100 milliWatts,
but if this is overunity, I can not really say yet...

Have a look at it yourself. Here are 3 picture, 2 with the AP running the 10 LEDs
and once the AP disconnected...

As this circuit is so high frequency, all cables length already matter.
When I connect the 2.2 uH coil directly on the breadboard without these green
cables, the AP does not light at all !
So it really depens on some cables between it and probably on electromagnetic radiation
and standing waves...

I just don?t have the right equipment to measure these RF currents correctly, so
all measurements at this level must be taken not too seriously...

Also the breadboard itsself with all the capacitances between the rows and contacts
surely change the circuit into very much capacitively coupled things...
So as long as Dr. Stiffler still uses his breadboard with his aluplate in the
background there is this huge aluplate capacitance, that really matters at these
frequencies !

These RF circuits are no joy for audio frequency engineers !
::)

Well, I will stop now with this circuit, as long as I don?t have a core-coil
combination that seems to give me any gain...
I did not see any gain in my core-coil combinations so far.

Also the lighting of the neon bulb with one of my aircore coils in my earlier tests
had not had any big output, this was probably only from the right frequency
to excite the neon gas inside the bulb and was probably just a few milliWatts
of power there. Also it did not hurt me, when touching it...
So all in all, this Avramenko Plug technology is interesting but I could
not yet get any power amplification from it, as I don?t have the right cores...

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 03:24:24 PM
P.S: The first 2 pics had the same LED brightness, butI held the
camera in a different angle, so in the second picture the LEDs
just seem brighter, as they were more in direct line with the camera.

The meter you see is set on the 50 mA DC scale and was hooked into
the positive supply line ofthe 12 Volts power supply with a cap across the leads,
so it did register just the DC amps.

In the 2 upper pics you can see the current of about 25 mA
in the last pic, when I removed the cap( so the AP was connected anymore)
the oscillator circuit just drawed about 17 mA.
Then the oscillator was just idle running at around 27 Mhz with no output
connected.

If you have some questions just ask.

What I also saw is, that the input power did rise more,if I did
connect one pin of the AP to the external iron plate instead
of the positive pole ofthe power supply,so
it seems in this case the RF power is just better transmitted away and
so the circuit draws more input power.
So connecting one pin of the LED chain to +12 Volt or the ground of the
circuit just worked best as this draws only 25 mA, in the other case
it drew about 40 mA !
Just running the AP without the connection to 12 Volts or ground did not work
in my case.. only, when I had the AP off board, so all the cables were between it..

You see, these RF frequencies are nasty to work with...so many dependences
from capacitance and cable inductancs...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 04:50:26 PM
Well,
I ordered now 10 pieces of 680 uH ferrite antenna:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150089628196

and
10 pieces of 470 uH antenna ferrite sticks:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150178895066

Hopefully I will soon get it via airmail and then I will
continue with this project.

Until then I will try other circuits.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 06, 2007, 08:22:58 PM
Everyone is so interested in getting to the end with just the two coils and ground so I have included a picture for thos that have the single coil circuit working. This would be the next step towards the dual coil system.

You need to perfectly match to single coil systems so that their response peaks match. When done you can drive one from your generator hot and one from ground as shown in the photo. The SEC zone extends some 3 meters. There is not much to explain here if you have the basic one coil working, make another and adjust one or the other to where they have the same energy peaks, then drive one from earth ground.

This is not simple induction between the coils, remember three meters away connected only to ground!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on November 06, 2007, 10:05:56 PM
R Stiffler

have you noticed the extropy in the system? and its mirror oposite entropy? you are leading people down an interesting path I think will be most interesting when people realize it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 10:06:07 PM
Dear Ron,
looks nice,

These capacitances at these frequencies just have a major impact
and also the backplate aluplate...

What frequency did you use in this last test ?

Here are some more measurements from my latest setup:

oscillator Frequency : around 27 Mhz
Input Voltage : 12.5 Volts DC
Input DC current : 25 milliAmps

Input power: 312.5 milliWatts

DC Voltage at 10 LED stack: 31 Volts
DC current through 10 LED stack: 2 milliAmps

output power at the LEDs: 62 milliWatts

Without LED-AP load just feeding the oscillator at 27 Mhz:
Input Voltage : 12.7 Volts DC
Input DC current : 17 milliAmps

Input power: 215.9 milliWatts
So you see, although the brightness of the LED seems pretty bright,
they just only need around 62 milliWatts of power.

So you see, when we connect the LED load via the Avramenko plug
we raise the input power by 96.6 milliWatts
and get only 62 milliWatts of light power out there.
The rest is probably radiated away.
So I am still underunity with my circuit, although the LEDs
look pretty bright for this small 62 milliWatts of power...

So I just paid the cores to the Ebay seller and will now wait to
Now back to some other circuits.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 08, 2007, 09:10:20 AM
R Stiffler

have you noticed the extropy in the system? and its mirror oposite entropy? you are leading people down an interesting path I think will be most interesting when people realize it.

Only time will tell .. cant wait for the grand finale video myself :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on November 08, 2007, 01:58:52 PM
I would like to see if this work or not...
If work in "generator in input" form, I know why.
If work in "2 core, without generator input" form, I would like to know source from ground.
In Tesla's patent ( 787 412 ), where he talk about 'standing waves', he was mention thunders storm waves (25-70 km from max to min point of wave).
Tesla's energy transmitter and receiver is easy for understanding (to me).

If this Stiffler's device work or not, I know that in ground we have energy in some form.
In Tesla's receiver we need two plates in the ground on some distance, and "no barrier" rectifier.
In 25 - 70 km wave form, we have lot of thunders waves energy (with lot of frequency form). Tesla was measure that form of energy.

White diodes is easy to light-on. 3 AAA type battery could work with 3 diodes around 100 hours (you can by it everywhere) .
It is easy to light-on 50 diodes, with 1.5 V converter and with 1 AAA battery, and have full light around 2 hours.

We will see...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 09, 2007, 05:12:56 AM
It appears that this discussion has been moved to google groups, at least I can conclude that from Dr. Stiffler's page.

Sadly the group is by invitation only and no mention how ones gets invited in (I presume I can't self invite myself, can I? :P )
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 09, 2007, 08:45:51 AM
I can not access his google groups yet.

Has nobody got some comments to my last postings ?

Hi Ben, what are your latest results ?

How do you measure  your output versus input power ?

I am still waiting for the cores to come in.
They are already shipped via airmail, but it still can take
a few days to go through customs until they will be here.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 09, 2007, 12:18:35 PM
Also I have asked for 3 spar in ferrite, 10 days have almost passed, but I have not received anything.
Here in Italy the post service and custom doesn't work very well... :-\, therefore it needs to have patience.

I have tried to subscrive me in the group:
But, for now, my registration has not been approved. be a true sin!

@Stiffler
Hi Stiffler, can subscribe me in your forum on Google? I would be honorable of it.

@All
Are there experimenters that can describe their progress?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 09, 2007, 08:42:45 PM
I can not access his google groups yet.

Has nobody got some comments to my last postings ?

Hi Ben, what are your latest results ?

Measure input current via conventional iron vane ma meter in series with circuit.  Output is simply current and voltage.  Results are very encouraging and circuit development is coming along.  IT takes a LOT of knowledge to do this right as my circuit base frequency is around 9/18/ 27 MHz.  It will drive a DVM to false readings which makes it almost useless with these circuits.

How do you measure your output versus input power ?  See above.

I am still waiting for the cores to come in.  I got 10 of the 600+uh off Ebay and they work great.

They are already shipped via airmail, but it still can take
a few days to go through customs until they will be here.

You will like the results.  Strive for a high output stable Osc, square wave out.......Picture of my latest unit.  1 Watt in. Totally experimental circuit. Osc. is designed by a friend, Ossie in AU. Oddball Osc, works like a champ.   Lots of things become clear as you work with it.  I have spend at least 150 hours working on this thing so far (talk about a crick in the neck!), not nearly there yet for a high power unit. I have been liberating silicon smoke, getting burned with RF, making a mess in my shop but I'm starting to get a handle on it.  Just for reference, each AV plug can put out about 14.5 ma @ 12 V in this circuit. (known value from charging battery) With Neon, voltage/current is different. Input does not change with this load!

More to come from Dr. Stiffler when he feels he is ready, I'm just the experimenter and this is for fun.  For him, this is damn serious..  He is the father and it is his baby.

Respectfully

Ben K4ZEP

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: starcruiser on November 09, 2007, 10:11:15 PM
@Ben,

What do you think of using this theory on the TPU? Well if this is how it is happening then maybe it wouldn't really be a TPU would it?

Thinking out loud here now, instead of using the ferrite what about a bundle of wire for the core?, multiple segments for the transformers (four of them, maybe even 3) using a simple blocking Osc or similar, maybe even a 555 using a Tip33 for the driver. L1 could be a small torrid coil. Maybe use a strong neo to provide saturation to the core material.

Now take 3 or 4 AV plugs and use them to pulse charge a large cap that has a voltage rating of say 200vdc, then try to power a bulb after a bit of a wind up.

What do you think??

Just a my mind wandering.... humm
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 10, 2007, 01:25:39 AM
I have opened up some additional information on the coils and how to do some measurements.

www.drstiffler.com/buildup.asp
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 10, 2007, 02:24:03 AM
NOTICE:

I am now posting information on my web site from associate researchers working with me on the advanced development of the SEC devices.

These researchers have given 'me' permission to post some of their work on my site and as a result all Copyrights will now be enforced. Anyone copying information from my site and making it available on any other site, list, group or news service is prohibited.

The only way this can now be legally done is to get the express permission of the specific researcher that the information originated from.

Please be sure to follow these rules, we must enforce them in order to protect the property of our associate inventors and researchers.

Thank You..

Dr. Ronald Stiffler
Stiffler Scientific
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on November 10, 2007, 03:05:51 AM
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 10, 2007, 03:15:36 AM
Interesting developments, sadly I've been so busy at work this past week that my spare time at home is spent mostly resting.

Perhaps I can get something done over the weekend and will report here...

@HopeForHumanity

start of the end of what?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 10, 2007, 03:26:13 AM
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\

Its the beginning.

Many researchers have invested hundreds of hours in this research and all they are asking is that their work be controlled in one place. Nothing is stopping people from talking or working with us all. The resource must be controlled or people will have various versions, buggy versions or obsolete versions. By maintaining information in one place means you will be able to obtain the latest and best information in a timely way.

I see no reason why this should close anything off to the public. We hope to release information as soon as it has been confirmed by multiple researchers, this means 'You' don't waste time and spend money going in the wrong direction.

The research has so advanced in the last weeks that 'Many' reputable researchers have confirmed many of the circuit designs to in fact be OU, but the maximum to date from a circuit is 5 watts with around 1 watt input. These circuits are very unstable but getting better by the day.

Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 10, 2007, 03:26:32 AM
@Ben,

What do you think of using this theory on the TPU? Well if this is how it is happening then maybe it wouldn't really be a TPU would it?

Thinking out loud here now, instead of using the ferrite what about a bundle of wire for the core?, multiple segments for the transformers (four of them, maybe even 3) using a simple blocking Osc or similar, maybe even a 555 using a Tip33 for the driver. L1 could be a small torrid coil. Maybe use a strong neo to provide saturation to the core material.

Now take 3 or 4 AV plugs and use them to pulse charge a large cap that has a voltage rating of say 200vdc, then try to power a bulb after a bit of a wind up.

What do you think??

Just a my mind wandering.... humm
Let the old noggin wander, what your purpose is good for about a week of testing.  Go for it!!!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on November 10, 2007, 03:37:51 AM
Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 10, 2007, 04:05:17 AM
Yep, Kneedeep kneedeep,

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 10, 2007, 06:37:58 AM
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\

Its the beginning.

Many researchers have invested hundreds of hours in this research and all they are asking is that their work be controlled in one place. Nothing is stopping people from talking or working with us all. The resource must be controlled or people will have various versions, buggy versions or obsolete versions. By maintaining information in one place means you will be able to obtain the latest and best information in a timely way.

I see no reason why this should close anything off to the public. We hope to release information as soon as it has been confirmed by multiple researchers, this means 'You' don't waste time and spend money going in the wrong direction.

The research has so advanced in the last weeks that 'Many' reputable researchers have confirmed many of the circuit designs to in fact be OU, but the maximum to date from a circuit is 5 watts with around 1 watt input. These circuits are very unstable but getting better by the day.

Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.

And would I be wrong in supposing that any violations of this new law would bring about the withdrawal of informations from your site ... :O .. please say it isn't so !!!

edited :
I meant to say, that posting information on the internet where sharing and replication of information is the expected if not accepted norm and then asking the millions of people to not do a standard practice is almost certain to fail, copyright clause or none. Seems to be weighted to a certain outcome in my humble opinion. Though I do respect owners and their rights.

Aside from that ...
ummm .. here goes .. HOW much is FREE energy going to cost us Doc?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on November 10, 2007, 08:28:36 AM
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\

Its the beginning.

Many researchers have invested hundreds of hours in this research and all they are asking is that their work be controlled in one place. Nothing is stopping people from talking or working with us all. The resource must be controlled or people will have various versions, buggy versions or obsolete versions. By maintaining information in one place means you will be able to obtain the latest and best information in a timely way.

I see no reason why this should close anything off to the public. We hope to release information as soon as it has been confirmed by multiple researchers, this means 'You' don't waste time and spend money going in the wrong direction.

The research has so advanced in the last weeks that 'Many' reputable researchers have confirmed many of the circuit designs to in fact be OU, but the maximum to date from a circuit is 5 watts with around 1 watt input. These circuits are very unstable but getting better by the day.

Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.

I don't think it's going to be as simple as this... You've got yourself into a big complex thing, and I don't think it will be as easy as you think.

My point is that there is a dark side to those kinds of restrictions. Don't let anyone scare you into thinking that you must control every piece of information you have. IMO it would be better to have a few buggy versions than no versions at all. Look at all the other open source inventions and programs out there. Study how they became succesful without having to restrict or control their information.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler ... Closing the loop!
Post by: derricka on November 10, 2007, 10:55:43 AM
Ron sure knows how to build the suspense for his yet unreleased "closing the loop with a small solar panel" video. I have some thoughts on this regarding efficiency.  A typical white LED is about 27 percent efficient in terms of converting electrical energy into light energy, and a typical  commercially available polycrystalline or crystalline solar panel, about 10 to 20 percent efficient.  Assuming Ron is able to efficiently couple the light from LED's to solar panel he will be lucky to recover an efficiency of 2.7 to 5.4 percent. (My guess is that 1 to 2 percent would be more realistic.)  If Ron is able to pull this off, it would be a most impressive demonstration, as it means he is not only winning the fight, but winning with over 9 out 10 fingers tied behind his back!  Of course, to really impress us, the solar panel would feed a capacitor and not a battery, and all other significant light sources turned off or blocked, so as not to feed the solar panel.   Anyway, even if it turns out the solar panel dosn't provide enough power to close the loop, perhaps the loop can be closed with a couple of ceramic capacitors feeding a full wave bridge etc. perhaps trading the nice isolation provided by the solar panel, for higher efficiency.  Finally, I am thinking about designing an experimental circuit board, that anyone could download the data file for, and have made online, or make themselves.  (This would be for experimental, non commercial use only and layout copyright would go to Dr. Stiffler). Let me know if you are interested or have any thoughts on this, like where to put extra capacitance etc.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 10, 2007, 11:06:06 AM
I have opened up some additional information on the coils and how to do some measurements.

www.drstiffler.com/buildup.asp

Many thanks Ron for this extra pagewith this very well
done measurements.

By the way, that do you mean by
Coil response on the X-Axis at figure 10 there ?

If I will not get any amplificationb myself,when my cores
arrive, sign me up also for the 1 Watt device.

Seems you are heading to win the OverUnity prize,
when you break the 50 Watts barrier !  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 10, 2007, 11:23:22 AM
Hi Ben,
nice to see your picture now with the 30 neon bulbs.

Did you also get the core from this Ebay seller
Mr. Lowe from Middletown, OH 45044 ?

Do you now see much more amplification with it ?

How much power did you put in there to drive
the 30 neon bulbs and at what frequency ?

What is you voltage p-p to drive this from your signal generator ?

Can you , if you hit the resonance frequency of the core
lower in the input signal generator  voltage , without the neon bulbs
reducing their brightness ?
If yes, to what level ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 10, 2007, 03:26:20 PM
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\

Its the beginning.

Many researchers have invested hundreds of hours in this research and all they are asking is that their work be controlled in one place. Nothing is stopping people from talking or working with us all. The resource must be controlled or people will have various versions, buggy versions or obsolete versions. By maintaining information in one place means you will be able to obtain the latest and best information in a timely way.

I see no reason why this should close anything off to the public. We hope to release information as soon as it has been confirmed by multiple researchers, this means 'You' don't waste time and spend money going in the wrong direction.

The research has so advanced in the last weeks that 'Many' reputable researchers have confirmed many of the circuit designs to in fact be OU, but the maximum to date from a circuit is 5 watts with around 1 watt input. These circuits are very unstable but getting better by the day.

Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.

You can count me in for an evaluation unit Dr Stiffler. I have access to a group of RF Engineers where I work. I would love to see their reactions as I demonstrate and guide them through the circuit, then direct them to your site. I think it's a good idea, the working units would be for the most part uniform and will enable spreading the word very easy, as seeing is believing for most people.
Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler ... Closing the loop!
Post by: retrod on November 10, 2007, 03:45:58 PM
Ron sure knows how to build the suspense for his yet unreleased "closing the loop with a small solar panel" video. I have some thoughts on this regarding efficiency.  A typical white LED is about 27 percent efficient in terms of converting electrical energy into light energy, and a typical  commercially available polycrystalline or crystalline solar panel, about 10 to 20 percent efficient.  Assuming Ron is able to efficiently couple the light from LED's to solar panel he will be lucky to recover an efficiency of 2.7 to 5.4 percent. (My guess is that 1 to 2 percent would be more realistic.)  If Ron is able to pull this off, it would be a most impressive demonstration, as it means he is not only winning the fight, but winning with over 9 out 10 fingers tied behind his back!  Of course, to really impress us, the solar panel would feed a capacitor and not a battery, and all other significant light sources turned off or blocked, so as not to feed the solar panel.   Anyway, even if it turns out the solar panel dosn't provide enough power to close the loop, perhaps the loop can be closed with a couple of ceramic capacitors feeding a full wave bridge etc. perhaps trading the nice isolation provided by the solar panel, for higher efficiency.  Finally, I am thinking about designing an experimental circuit board, that anyone could download the data file for, and have made online, or make themselves.  (This would be for experimental, non commercial use only and layout copyright would go to Dr. Stiffler). Let me know if you are interested or have any thoughts on this, like where to put extra capacitance etc.
There have been recent breakthroughs in solar cell research. This article mentions efficiency of 42%
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=49483     This of course does not mean a trial sample is readily available but there is hope.

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 01:48:25 AM
Did you all see the Ossi Callanan circuit on :
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

?

Wow
this is pretty bright.
How much power goes into there from the batteries ?

I wonder, why in :

http://67.76.235.52/drstiffler/buildup.asp

the voltage is smallest at the resonance frequency ?
Normally, when you look at firgure 9 circuit diagramm
the voltage must be the highest at resonance,
cause the series LC circuit has the lowest resistance
at resonance and then the 50 ohm resistor gets the
highest voltage.

Maybe he has just measured across the LC circuit ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: callanan on November 11, 2007, 02:21:43 AM
78ma from the 12V battery. Only had 67 LEDs. Estimate the circuit could light up to 200 LEDs.

Ossie

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on November 11, 2007, 02:50:31 AM
I wonder, why in :

http://67.76.235.52/drstiffler/buildup.asp

the voltage is smallest at the resonance frequency ?

I'm sure the doc will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that L2 and L3 form a resonant transformer, like a telsa coil, and the "Stiffler core" resonance frequency is the frequency at which the oscillating current in L3 is maximal.  The high-voltage oscillations in L3 inductively couple back to L2, where they oppose the generator signal, causing less power to be drawn from the generator and dumped into the load resistor.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 11, 2007, 02:52:18 AM
Wow that's impressive, 67 LEDs look pretty blinding, what happens when you put 200? :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 11, 2007, 03:03:21 AM
Hi Harti
The reason the voltage drops on the test circuit at self resonance is that the measurement circuit  is in SERIES with the coil.  You are correct that the AC voltage across the coil is at maximum, but it is out of phase with the generator, so in this series testing circuit,  you get maximum cancellation at the coils self resonant frequency, and thus the lowest output to the scope. At self-resonance, the capacitor in the LC circuit  doesn't exist physically, but is mostly made up of stray capacitance between the wires in the coil itself.  The reason Ron is measuring this way, is to prevent placing any additional stray capacitance (from scope or measuring equipment) across the coil which would alter the resonant frequency being measured, and cause an incorrect frequency reading.  Dr. Stiffler is obviously familiar with RF measurement techniques. So far, the more of his work I see, the more impressed I am.

PS
Ossi Callanan's circuit does look bright, the circuit is being fed by 12 volts, so the input signal to the coil is probably a higher voltage than the typical output of a signal generator used in some of the other circuits.  The real question is: What is the RATIO between true RMS input power  and output power?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 11, 2007, 04:14:28 AM
Sorry to be a bother, but does anybody know where to purchase BaFe cores? The original eBay seller doesn't seem to sell them anymore.

If obtaining cores proves to be a problem, does anybody know how I'd go about making my own cores from BaFe powder?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 11, 2007, 05:01:36 AM
Sorry to be a bother, but does anybody know where to purchase BaFe cores? The original eBay seller doesn't seem to sell them anymore.

If obtaining cores proves to be a problem, does anybody know how I'd go about making my own cores from BaFe powder?

680uH cores here (http://stores.ebay.com/Hard-to-find-Electronic-Parts)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 11, 2007, 06:50:55 AM
Hmm, i've seen coils like that around before, but I thought they needed to be Barium Ferrite? If not, I could probably grab some from the local electronic components store. Can anybody confirm those coils working?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 11, 2007, 08:53:54 AM
I am the Ebay Seller that sells the 680uh ferrite coils. They are the ones used Dr. Stiffler as I sold them to him. I logged in to this site to see what all the commotion was about. OU  :o interesting.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 09:16:35 AM
Hi Harti
The reason the voltage drops on the test circuit at self resonance is that the measurement circuit  is in SERIES with the coil.

Yes,but in the circuit diagram he is showing it being measured across the 50 ohm load resistor.

If the series LC circuit atresonance has about less than 1 Ohm impedance, all
voltage should be at the 50 Ohm resistor, so the voltage should
be maximum at resonance, not lowest... or do I mix something up here ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 09:18:11 AM
78ma from the 12V battery. Only had 67 LEDs. Estimate the circuit could light up to 200 LEDs.

Ossie

Hi Ossi !
Really well done man !

Great brightness just for 816 milliWatts only !

Let us know how it looks, when you connect 200 LEDs !
I guess I must also go buy a fewmore LEDs soon !  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 09:19:34 AM
I am the Ebay Seller that sells the 680uh ferrite coils. They are the ones used Dr. Stiffler as I sold them to him. I logged in to this site to see what all the commotion was about. OU  :o interesting.

Many thanks for coming over here.

I hope you don?t sell them now at 100x the initial prize ! ;) ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 09:25:42 AM
When I remember the MRA circuit
The Magnetic Resonance Amplifier (MRA)
By Joel McClain and Norman Wootan

here is a link to it:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/9201/mranines/mra.html

This must have been something simular.
Watch out ofthe circuit diagram.
It is drawn there a bit wrong as
Joel McClain and Norman Wootan
first claimed to have also only used the positive ONLY of their
signal generator
and later Earthtech tested their device and gound only
underunity, butby then they also used the ground
line of the signal generator and thus did not have a single wire output !

So Earthtech did not understand how to measure it correctly and the Avramenko
plug idea was not born yet, but I wonder, if Joel McClain and Norman Wootan
would now also use the Avramenko plug idea,
what they would get out of theri Barium Titanate Piezo crystal at resonance
with an series Avramenko plug behind it ??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 09:30:24 AM

Found here:

http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:1ysyrWRpTVwJ:www.most.gov.mm/techuni/media/EcE02041ElectronicMeasurement.doc+barium+titanite+transducer&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=de

Piezoelectric transducer

* Asymmetrical crystalline materials, such as quartz, Rochelle salt and barium titanite produce an emf when they are placed under stress.
* This principle is used in Piezoelectric transducer, where a crystal is placed between a solid-base and the force summing member
* When the external force is applied, the current produced is proportional to the amount or pressure
* Since this transducer has a very god frequency response, it is used in high accelerator.
* The disadvantage of this transducer is that it cannot measure in static condition.
* The output voltage is also affected by the temperature variations of the crystal.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 10:10:45 AM
Okay, this MRA thing is a bit offtopic to the Dr. Stiffler circuit,
but as maybe the barium resonance plays a role,
the Barium titanate may be also a solution to go.

Here is another Word DOC file of this upper transducer doc:

http://www.most.gov.mm/techuni/media/EcE02041ElectronicMeasurement.doc

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 11, 2007, 03:28:50 PM
Hi Ben,
nice to see your picture now with the 30 neon bulbs.

Can you tell us more about this ?  It Used the Ossie On board Osc. 100 ma@ 12VDC in.

Did you also get the core from this Ebay seller
Mr. Lowe from Middletown, OH 45044 ?  I got from zlowe7 in Cincinatti, Ohio.  Possibly the same guy.  Coils seem the same.

Do you now see much more amplification with it ?  It shows all the needed charactoristics.

How much power did you put in there to drive
the 30 neon bulbs and at what frequency ? 1.1 watt @ 9 Mhhz

What is you voltage p-p to drive this from your signal generator ?  Osc on board, battery powered.

Can you , if you hit the resonance frequency of the core
lower in the input signal generator  voltage , without the neon bulbs
reducing their brightness ?   Brute force, no resonance, did not try to resonate.

Have gone so much further since this "teaser", MOST important, you must operate this system open loop during power generation for the OU effect to be there.  The Ossie C. circuit is just a start, works good.  Always better ways.  It is amazing, there is these "globs" of power generated at the end of multiple AV plugs/loops.  To use it is the basic problem.  Closing the loop is the hardest to do, or transfering OU energy back to normal operating system.......
If yes, to what level ?
Many thanks.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 11, 2007, 05:10:09 PM
Hi Harti
The reason the voltage drops on the test circuit at self resonance is that the measurement circuit  is in SERIES with the coil.

Yes,but in the circuit diagram he is showing it being measured across the 50 ohm load resistor.

If the series LC circuit atresonance has about less than 1 Ohm impedance, all
voltage should be at the 50 Ohm resistor, so the voltage should
be maximum at resonance, not lowest... or do I mix something up here ?

The measurement procedure is correct and the results are correct. Many have already explained why this is so, but I will attempt to do so also.

The coil (turns of the coil) between each turn, has an intrinsic capacity that forms a mini-parallel resonant tank, so picture the coil and its inter winding capacities as a string small parallel resonant tanks in series. A parallel tank will exhibit highest impedance at resonance, therefore lowest voltage across the 50-ohm resistor.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Joh70 on November 11, 2007, 07:18:47 PM
I realy do not understand, why there is nobody, who closes the loop to plug off the battery or an external powered signal generator!!! To close the loop, use a mini-solar-panel, fed by the light of the LEDs. To start-up the circuit, put external light on the panel, powered by a battery/supply or so. After successfull initialization switch off the battery and remove it completely. WHAT YOU ARE WAITING FOR???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 11, 2007, 07:29:12 PM
I realy do not understand, why there is nobody, who closes the loop to plug off the battery or an external powered signal generator!!! To close the loop, use a mini-solar-panel, fed by the light of the LEDs. To start-up the circuit, put external light on the panel, powered by a battery/supply or so. After successfull initialization switch off the battery and remove it completely. WHAT YOU ARE WAITING FOR???

Maybe the Wine needs to age a bit more and hey its not Christmas yet.

Hang around, something better may be blowing in the wind....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 11, 2007, 10:05:13 PM
Isn't closing the loop going to break the dia-pole and rid us of the radiant energy being created? When that happens we end up in the realm of the underunity where all of our conventional devices work in...but not really where we want to be.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 11, 2007, 10:41:22 PM
Isn't closing the loop going to break the dia-pole and rid us of the radiant energy being created? When that happens we end up in the realm of the underunity where all of our conventional devices work in...but not really where we want to be.
Is it possible to generate energy @ a overunit rate, then transfer that energy to a closed loop system, that is take energy from open ended system, transfer it to closed loop system while not disturbing the OU system.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 11, 2007, 10:51:35 PM
Is it possible to generate energy @ a overunit rate, then transfer that energy to a closed loop system, that is take energy from open ended system, transfer it to closed loop system while not disturbing the OU system.

Hi

I will assume you wanted to say "It is..." rather than "Is it...", and I agree there is a way to transfer the energy, one of them by charging and discharging a capacitor the way Bedini does it, but I was hoping to allude to a lack of devices that use radiant energy directly from the source and are based on open loop system. :)

I think we should divide our focus not just on tapping into the sea of radiant energy but also constructing devices that are powered by it directly in accordance with natural principles. Else, if we continue converting to our closed loop system we just perpetuate the old inefficient ways.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 11, 2007, 10:59:00 PM
Hi Harti
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.
So...I have attached a picture showing how a coil actually has some built in capacitance.
Best of luck with your replication efforts.
DerrickA
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 12, 2007, 05:38:37 AM

", but I was hoping to allude to a lack of devices that use radiant energy directly from the source and are based on open loop system. :) "

I think we should divide our focus not just on tapping into the sea of radiant energy but also constructing devices that are powered by it directly in accordance with natural principles. Else, if we continue converting to our closed loop system we just perpetuate the old inefficient ways.

Well observed Amigo.

I've been reading this thread diligently and excitedly as replications (of sorts) have added to the weight of Dr Stifflers work.

Between 1990 and 2002 I spent those years analysing the Adams Motor and other pulsed motor systems. Never once, in all that time, and after building 100's of the pulsed "little demons", did I, IMHO, ever achieve O/U.
But a couple of things about the Adams motor really bugged me. So much about their characteristics and the way they operated intrigued me to a point where I persisted with every possible experiment I could conceive of.

And I'm glad I did. I am still skeptical of the notion that you will get O/U from an Adams Motor. But I am damn sure about one thing in particular, and that is: AN OPEN MAGNETIC SYTEM is more effiicient than a Closed Magnetic System! And an Adams pulsed motor/generator, if nothing else, is a useful tool in proving it!

When I first started experimenting with pulsed motor systems, I was completely skeptical of the notion of O/U in any sense or meaning of the words.

My years of experimenting with pulsed motor/generator systems has left me sitting in the "middle of the fence" these days. I still lean towards skepticism in O/U forums, especially when words like "something from nothing" appear in a sentence, as opposed to "something for nothing".

Bu these days I consider myself to be an "active skeptic". Meaning, that I try to keep an open mind to all possibilities, and actively seek to understand new phenomena or explanations by way of literature research and hand's on experimentation where my skills allow. To me replication is the key to verification. Understanding will follow!

The possibilty of "tapping" a heretofore unknown or misunderstood source of energy is one that needs the greatest of attention in the here and now.

I applaud the work of all those who come to this forum, seeking to exchange their ideas and freely expressing their thoughts.

Sorry to go a little off topic here, but Amigos, you're right on the knocker with your statement. "Else, if we continue converting to our closed loop system we just perpetuate the old inefficient ways."

If any of you are interested, I set up a few pages a couple of weeks back to help some "Adams motor" beginners deal with some of the issues
they had with component failure inthere motor circuits. I never intended it to, but the few pages grew to a total of ten. Once I started recapping
on some old knowledge to try to help these guys out a little bit, it just kinda started frothing out of my mouth, so to speak. Anyway, the long and the short of it is this, on page 10 I outline a very simple experiment that can be done by anybody with some rudimentary electronic/building skills which shows that you can easily "Bend Lenz's Law".

Those are bold words, I know! Notice I didn't say "break", just "bend". But Bend in a big way. After proving this myself (and to other peers), and knowing that anybody else can also prove it themselves, I am much more open to the idea that other "Laws" can probably be "bent". The key here is not to do what has always been done, and not to assume what is always assumed.

For anyone interested in "Bending Lenz's Law", heres a link. When you get there just click on page 10      http://www.totallyamped.net/adams

Cheers and KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops  :D

P.S. Keep up the great work everyone!

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Hoppy on November 12, 2007, 09:40:09 PM
Picking up on hoptoad's post, I share his views in general having spent the last couple of years seriously studying Bedini technology. I have been following this thread from the beginning and decided recently to try this 'one wire working' with a Bedini SG energiser running at 25Khz. I found that I could easily illuminate a few 'blue' LED's using an AV plug with a short open wire tail to 'tune' the plug. The plug was connected directly to the energiser's output 'compression' diode'. A very small current of 100uA (measured with an AVO 8 meter in series with LED) will light the LED's to a good visible level with no additional chokes needed. Increasing the 'spike' level from the energiser, considerably increases the current available to the LED's. I coupled the AV plug through a 100pf polystyrene cap.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 13, 2007, 02:24:42 AM

I agree that we do not need to break any physical laws, or even bend them for that matter. Any physical law is based on someone's observations and/or empirical proof, supported by others agreeing to accept it - a consensus. No where does it say anything is set in stone, and I really shiver when some people (in our orthodox scientific community and academia) talk about things as if they are set in stone, because it only shows how narrow minded they can be.

Personally, I am trying to look at different technologies and findings from various fields of alternative research in hope that they could be combined into something greater than any of the components creating it. What bothers me is that many people are obsessed with this O/U goal that they are forgetting that there's no "free beer" or everything for nothing. I think Tom Bearden nicely said in of the videos that we only need to invest a small amount of energy and the Nature will give us back everything we can take, and more, but as long as we follow Nature's principles (of open loop and not breaking the diapoles).

That is why I said that we need to focus on the two goals and not one: tapping into RE sea of energy through some easy and least costly (energetically) method; and other of creating the devices (to replace our existing ones) that will be driven by that generated energy without converting it to some other form (closed loop wasteful energy for example).

I strongly believe that we already have the answer, and it is within us and around us. Our own bodies are an open loop system, part of an even larger open loop system. We need to explore the principles present within us and create a "primer", that very first method of tapping into the RE which everything will stem from, because it's all really one and the same thing on some other higher level beyond our perception (or comprehension at the moment).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 13, 2007, 02:54:37 AM
Amigo:

Well put.  I have always looked to nature for engineering suggestions.  She is pretty good at it afterall.  When I consider the human body, that you can eat an apple and work all day off of the energy from that apple....pretty efficient system there.  And then consider that our waste fertilizes the apple tree afterwards.....perfect. Nature is our answer, we just have to look past the laws and our narrow minded thinking to see it.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 14, 2007, 07:46:22 PM
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3457.0;attach=14106)

I just got an email with a few comments to this circuit and
the core:

For one the connection from R3 to R2 is wrong and should not be there.
Next Q1 is a oscillator driving M1 as an amplifier.
This is a typical RF transmitter circuit.
The output from M1 is where you would put an antenna. In this case the antenna is a wire running to a coil. L1 and L3 are what is known as a antenna tuner or matching circuit. As most hams know when the antenna length or is tuned to the wright frequencies the alternating current or voltage will flow back and forth in tune with driver. That is why one wire works here.
Next L2 picks up the voltage from the antenna and amplifies it some due to the transformer action. This becomes like the receiving antenna.
Next D1 and D2 make a voltage doubler charging the capacitor Cp to twice the input voltage.
Next the 555 timer just turns the load on and off.
The D1 and D2 and capacitor make what is known as a charge pump. The size of the capacitor determines the amperage. The larger the capacitor is the longer it takes to build up full charge but the discharge is determined by the size of the capacitor and load.
Besides using one wire output and input this is exactly the same way a 1.5 volt battery in a flash camera makes the 3000 volts to flash the bulb.

Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar. So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum. My cores are made with Iron particales with a zinc magnesium base. Some cores use copper, nickel and Aluminum as doping compounds. As Copper and Aluminum are para magnetic and will increase the frequency response on the core.
Next although this most likely was not from Stiffer but a neon bulb will give off light due to the ionization on the neon at high frequencies. Only a few volts at high frequencies will light the bulb. I used to test some car CB's buy touching on lead from a neon bulb to the antenna. The volage at the antenna was no where near 90 volts.
But at least post that the connection on Q1 R3 to R2 is wrong. Next C7 may be best suited to a variable capacitor to fine tune the antenna output.
Maybe my dual 266pf can be connected to operate 10- 532pf. For driving neon bulbs capacitor Cp may not be needed or a very low value. You can put a load resistor across Cp say 10k or so and adjust the variable capacitor for max voltage with the 555 timer not in operation.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 14, 2007, 08:20:22 PM
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3457.0;attach=14106)

I just got an email with a few comments to this circuit and
the core:

For one the connection from R3 to R2 is wrong and should not be there.
Next Q1 is a oscillator driving M1 as an amplifier.
This is a typical RF transmitter circuit.
The output from M1 is where you would put an antenna. In this case the antenna is a wire running to a coil. L1 and L3 are what is known as a antenna tuner or matching circuit. As most hams know when the antenna length or is tuned to the wright frequencies the alternating current or voltage will flow back and forth in tune with driver. That is why one wire works here.
Next L2 picks up the voltage from the antenna and amplifies it some due to the transformer action. This becomes like the receiving antenna.
Next D1 and D2 make a voltage doubler charging the capacitor Cp to twice the input voltage.
Next the 555 timer just turns the load on and off.
The D1 and D2 and capacitor make what is known as a charge pump. The size of the capacitor determines the amperage. The larger the capacitor is the longer it takes to build up full charge but the discharge is determined by the size of the capacitor and load.
Besides using one wire output and input this is exactly the same way a 1.5 volt battery in a flash camera makes the 3000 volts to flash the bulb.

Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar. So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum. My cores are made with Iron particales with a zinc magnesium base. Some cores use copper, nickel and Aluminum as doping compounds. As Copper and Aluminum are para magnetic and will increase the frequency response on the core.
Next although this most likely was not from Stiffer but a neon bulb will give off light due to the ionization on the neon at high frequencies. Only a few volts at high frequencies will light the bulb. I used to test some car CB's buy touching on lead from a neon bulb to the antenna. The volage at the antenna was no where near 90 volts.
But at least post that the connection on Q1 R3 to R2 is wrong. Next C7 may be best suited to a variable capacitor to fine tune the antenna output.
Maybe my dual 266pf can be connected to operate 10- 532pf. For driving neon bulbs capacitor Cp may not be needed or a very low value. You can put a load resistor across Cp say 10k or so and adjust the variable capacitor for max voltage with the 555 timer not in operation.

This is a good indication on why we are limiting the distribution of our circuits. You must have pulled this one from your you computer because it has been corrected for over a week now. Good indication of why we are enforcing the Copyrights, of which you seem to have violated?

>>This is a typical RF transmitter circuit.
You are so wrong!

>>Besides using one wire output and input this is exactly the same way a 1.5 volt battery in a flash camera makes the 3000 volts to flash the bulb.
So far off I will not even comment.

>>Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar. So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum. My cores are made with Iron particales with a zinc magnesium base. Some cores use copper, nickel and Aluminum as doping compounds. As Copper and Aluminum are para magnetic and will increase the frequency response on the core.

Still some funny people out there.!!!

I logged in today to announce something very important, but now seeing this it can wait a bit. I guess we need to stimulate traffic a bit by posting this kind of crap.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 14, 2007, 08:47:41 PM

I logged in today to announce something very important, but now seeing this it can wait a bit.

This is getting hilarious - a sort of intellectual strip tease.  If you take so much umbrage at normal skepticism, you will run out of places to announce anything.

Instead of getting so ticked off when somebody dares to suggest that they don't believe 110 percent in whatever it is you think you have, ignore them and make the big announcement.

If you really have anything, it will shut up the skeptics quickly enough. But the more coy you continue to be, and the more the experimenters are unable to come up with OU, the more people will think you have nothing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 14, 2007, 09:07:59 PM
On the topic of Barium ferrite, search for "BaFe".
Pehaps start at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barium_ferrite.

AM

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 14, 2007, 10:35:01 PM
Hi Ron,
this was a forwarded email from the person you bought the AM coils
from....
So he checked his cores and said, that they might not contain any Barium.

I am in this moment not at home, so I can?t check until the weekend, if my
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 14, 2007, 11:42:22 PM
Mr Stiffler
I wanted to stay anomalous in this and just wanted the error on the schematic posted.
But since you used the word "crap" I must reply.
The oscillator built around Q1 is very typical and is most common in micro watt FM transmitters.
1) Is not Q1 an oscillator? Do not transmitters use oscillator's?
2) Does M1 not buffer and amplify the output from Q1. Because it is biased off it still switches on and off at the input frequency? Sounds like a buffer amplifier.
3) Does the output from M1 not drive the coils L1 and L2 . Sounds like an antenna to me.
4) Does not L2 receve the output from L3. Sounds like another antenna to me.
5) Does not D1 and D2 and Cp make a voltage doubler?
6) Does not the 555 do nothing but turn the load off and on?
7) Because the load being pulsed at a 50% duty cycle do you divide the output wattage by 2?

For any one that wants to try. Using the above schematic with R2 and R3 not connected together connect the end of L3 directly to ground because it has a capacitor at M1 output it will not hurt anything. Next connect a capacitor about .01uf or .001uf from ground to the end of L2. This will improve performance

I have not made this circuit but I know my stuff. If you have a working protype try the modifications and let me know the results.
My rods contain no Barium according the manufacturer it has Ferrite with Zinc Magnesium binder. I never said their was no such thing as Barium-Ferrite. But that it is not used cores or torids used for RF cores.
Buy the way if Stiffler denies any of questions above I will try and prove it anyone interested.

Any circuit no matter how complicated it my look can be broken down into its individual functions buy doing this you can discern how it works.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on November 15, 2007, 01:28:21 AM
"Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar."

If you didn't mean what I think you did in the above statement, then why did you waste your time stating that you were ignorant of barium ferrite bars? Seems kinda stupid... lol ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 01:45:32 AM
Just some more thoughts from my last posting.
3000 volts was quite high maybe 300 volts for xenon bulb.

You also may want to try this the 1.1uh coils in the collectors of Q1 and M1 change to one of my 680uh coils or 470uh coils. Replace C2 with a 100pf capacitor you may leave C1 in or take it out next replace R3 with 1K. Replace C7 with .01uf . Remember to use the schematic posted a few postings ago as there are so many around with numbers for the coils and componets differences.

Also use the modifications sudjested in my last posting. But change the .001uf capacitor from the end of L2 .01uf.

1.1uh coils will most likely produce around 20MHz since free air coils of in that range have self resonate frequency around 40MHz. 1.5MHz to 3MHz or so should work just fine.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 01:55:12 AM
"Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar."

If you didn't mean what I think you did in the above statement, then why did you waste your time stating that you were ignorant of barium ferrite bars? Seems kinda stupid... lol ;D

I said plainly in my last post Barium-Ferrite is not used in tuning coil cores. Since that is what our discussion is about not all the different kinds magnetic materials. If the statement I made was from ignorance prove me wrong. Then I won't be ignorant any more.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 02:13:58 AM
"Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar."

If you didn't mean what I think you did in the above statement, then why did you waste your time stating that you were ignorant of barium ferrite bars? Seems kinda stupid... lol ;D
Now I know how politician's feel every taken taken out of context. Ignorance is a lack of knowing something. Stupid is something else. I did not see you explain the circuit. Was this because you were ignorant of its operation. I do not call anyone "STUPID" even those that do not know how this simple circuit works.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on November 15, 2007, 02:40:31 AM
Now your stating that nothing you said is of relevance to what you mean or something... Good job, you confused me... I thought we were talking about how you never heard of barium ferrite bars (or cores). Did I miss something?

By the way, I wasn't matching ignorance and stupid, I was saying it's stupid to STATE how your ignorant of something.... ::)

Like you said, you didn't know about barium ferrite bars, so your ignorant of it... Now, instead of stating how you were ignorant about something, why didn't you just go research a tad before your post? it's a question... You never said that people told you it didn't exist, you just said you never heard of it. This led me to believe there might be more to why you never knew, so I asked a question. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 03:18:20 AM
Now your stating that nothing you said is of relevance to what you mean or something... Good job, you confused me... I thought we were talking about how you never heard of barium ferrite bars (or cores). Did I miss something?

By the way, I wasn't matching ignorance and stupid, I was saying it's stupid to STATE how your ignorant of something.... ::)

Like you said, you didn't know about barium ferrite bars, so your ignorant of it... Now, instead of stating how you were ignorant about something, why didn't you just go research a tad before your post? it's a question... You never said that people told you it didn't exist, you just said you never heard of it. This led me to believe there might be more to why you never knew, so I asked a question. :)
Why is it you only quoted the first sentence the last part says I did research and found none. Read this I state it twice "I DID REASEAECH AND FOUND NONE" maybe if I say it enough it will soak in. Buy the way 99% of the time if I have not heard of something I been doing for 45 years, it because it does not exist. You are about forcing me to use "STUPID" word.

And by the way read this direct quote from original post" So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum" read quoted part several several more times do you see the words "I did research"   Do not ask me again why I did not research when I did. Read this again "I DID REASEAECH AND FOUND NONE" . Enough on this. You confuse to easy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 15, 2007, 04:04:00 AM
Can't we all just get along? :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 15, 2007, 05:41:55 AM
Can't we all just get along? :)

Yeh, KneeDeep..........this thread was doing so well in the diplomacy stakes... so much so, that I referred to it in another thread as an example of a great thread with people openly sharing their knowledge and shedding light on something interesting.
Let's not get too much into murky waters.......frogs like me can't handle it....KneeDeep

Cheers all  :) Keep up the good work!

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on November 15, 2007, 05:56:49 AM
Now your stating that nothing you said is of relevance to what you mean or something... Good job, you confused me... I thought we were talking about how you never heard of barium ferrite bars (or cores). Did I miss something?

By the way, I wasn't matching ignorance and stupid, I was saying it's stupid to STATE how your ignorant of something.... ::)

Like you said, you didn't know about barium ferrite bars, so your ignorant of it... Now, instead of stating how you were ignorant about something, why didn't you just go research a tad before your post? it's a question... You never said that people told you it didn't exist, you just said you never heard of it. This led me to believe there might be more to why you never knew, so I asked a question. :)
Why is it you only quoted the first sentence the last part says I did research and found none. Read this I state it twice "I DID REASEAECH AND FOUND NONE" maybe if I say it enough it will soak in. Buy the way 99% of the time if I have not heard of something I been doing for 45 years, it because it does not exist. You are about forcing me to use "STUPID" word.

And by the way read this direct quote from original post" So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum" read quoted part several several more times do you see the words "I did research"   Do not ask me again why I did not research when I did. Read this again "I DID REASEAECH AND FOUND NONE" . Enough on this. You confuse to easy.

Look, I'm just trying to encourage you to look harder. I see lots of barium ferrite powders. I see references to cores, but not many for sale. I'm most likely not going to be attempting this thing, but, I believe that if you put down your extremely stiff beliefs, you could have the ability to replicate this thing. It looks very cheap, and why be afraid of a small waste of time, when it might go against your odds and turn out to be exactly as Dr.Stiffler said. Look at it not as a waste of time, but a lesson. I wish that I had the material and ability to just go get everything and build it. You almost do, and if you just put that extra effort into hunting down a barium ferrite core, it would look as if you had everything you need. Do it and fail, make your conclusion. Do it and succeed, be apart of the people who made it happen. Seems like a win win situation. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 06:16:39 AM
Sorry to get so riled up. You missunderstand. I am the supplier Stiffler purchased the coils from. I know the manufacturer and what they specify they are made of. They are not from another source. Anyway the operation of the circuit still applies. I see how it works and need not make one as I have done similar things in the past. I encourage others to try the changes I suggested and experiment some.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 15, 2007, 08:00:29 AM

How totally unpredictable .. hahaha

Oh the great Stifeler has decided to punish us and make us wait ... lol .. get out of here .. are you guys still buying this malarky !!

Cheers,

Keep on Keeping on ...

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 15, 2007, 08:14:14 AM
DrZlowe
Chinese specification for a product is very different to what they actually deliver!
As an example:
I can't work out why the coils I bought from you are wound opposite to the ones that DrStiffler
bought.

The big question is not even what the circuit is. For me, it has been how to replicate the circuit
to behave exactly like DrStiffler described. Now as a business man, you could tune the coils you sell
and for an extra 10 windings you could sell your coils for 10 times more
And I would not care if the cores were made of saw dust!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 08:36:26 AM
It is hard for me to keep jumping to Stifler's web site and back to see what he has done. Most of his coil windings do not show the red dot. The windings are very hard to discern on some coils what direction that is. All my coils seem to be the same. With the red dot up and to your left start winding the coil in a counter clock wise direction starting from your left. I hope this make sense all this left and right stuff. If you need maybe I can a picture tomorrow. Happy experimenting and good luck.
In case I am wrong about all 4000 parts being the same ,I can not check them all but I did a random check of several hundred. If you think this may be causing you problems when you protype your circuit just reverse the outer winding leads in your circuit.
Another thing he keeps showing L2 in the schematic posted some pages back as a dual winding. If the coil you are winding is L3 it makes no difference which direction it is wound.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 15, 2007, 10:29:25 AM

How totally unpredictable .. hahaha

Oh the great Stifeler has decided to punish us and make us wait ... lol .. get out of here .. are you guys still buying this malarky !!

Cheers,

Keep on Keeping on ...

Dean

KneeDeep...Yeh, I'm sort of buying the malarky. Me, I don't believe in O/U. But each jump for the impossible, brings within reach the newly possible. We all know that LEDS are more efficient than Incandescent Lamps in terms of Lumens per watt, but is direct current versus RF excitation the best means to get those lumens per watt?

That is the....KneeDeep.......Question that I am asking. These LED experiments are important on shedding new light, (pun intended) on the best possible methods of creating said light from said LEDS.  Buuuurpppp.  ;D

Back in the 1980-1990's we were introduced to RF/Fluorescent light bulbs, which proved to be much more economical than incandescent or standard ballast triggered Fluorescent bulbs. If the search for O/U results in higher real efficiencies, then all the malaky is worthwhile.

In the meantime I just like bright lights,, ,, and whirrrring motoors,,,,,,  KneeDeep!..... :D

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 11:25:04 AM

How totally unpredictable .. hahaha

Oh the great Stifeler has decided to punish us and make us wait ... lol .. get out of here .. are you guys still buying this malarky !!

Cheers,

Keep on Keeping on ...

Dean

KneeDeep...Yeh, I'm sort of buying the malarky. Me, I don't believe in O/U. But each jump for the impossible, brings within reach the newly possible. We all know that LEDS are more efficient than Incandescent Lamps in terms of Lumens per watt, but is direct current versus RF excitation the best means to get those lumens per watt?

That is the....KneeDeep.......Question that I am asking. These LED experiments are important on shedding new light, (pun intended) on the best possible methods of creating said light from said LEDS.  Buuuurpppp.  ;D

Back in the 1980-1990's we were introduced to RF/Fluorescent light bulbs, which proved to be much more economical than incandescent or standard ballast triggered Fluorescent bulbs. If the search for O/U results in higher real efficiencies, then all the malaky is worthwhile.

In the meantime I just like bright lights,, ,, and whirrrring motoors,,,,,,  KneeDeep!..... :D

You are correct whether DC or some kind of driver may be more efficient is yet to be seen.

I was only breaking the Stiffler schematic down into parts for understanding its operation in a private email that got posted. No more no less. I just do not like to have my break down called "crap" by Stiffler. I did not challenge him making LEDs turn on I was only explaining the operation of it. He was asked many times to explain the circuit and did not. So I did. He has tweaked the circuit to operate the best he can and made improvements. But the basic circut operation is the same.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 15, 2007, 12:19:20 PM
Hi All, the cores from Dr. Lowe have arrived, but as I am mot home until the weekend I can not yet experiment with it yet. Stay tuned. Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 15, 2007, 12:29:40 PM
I would like this to be for real as much as the next guy but, so far, according to everything I have read here, it is just an ordinary rf generator lighting up some diodes, with zero evidence that it is OU.

If stiffler ever offers real evidence and enough information for people to replicate the circuit, or provides sample devices for people to test, then I guess we will know for sure one way or the other. But all he does, as far as i can see, is play games, the latest one being the 'big announcement' that he was going to make, but will not make because somebody dared to be skeptical.

He sure as hell doesn't sound like somebody who really has invented a world-changing device.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 15, 2007, 12:39:48 PM
Absolutely, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, has feathers like a duck and a beak like a duck .. you can be 99% sure ..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 15, 2007, 12:42:40 PM
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here. He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.
You should try to build it for yourself and then you decide whether it is OU or not or, where the extra energy comes from (if any).

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 15, 2007, 12:56:23 PM
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here.
He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.

He claims  a lot more than having found something peculiar, he claims OU - 400 or 800 percent or whatever it is.

We don't owe him any belief in such a gigantic claim if he is going to play games and refuse to offer real evidence that his circuit is OU.

What do you think when you see him let experimenters flounder around guessing, when he supposedly has the exact specs for a device that puts out OU?

What do you think when he gets so ticked off at a little skepticism that he says he is going to postpone his big announcement?

Does that sound like somebody who is confident he has invented a world-changing device?

As I say, I'd like to believe in this, but what I've seen so far makes me think it is baloney.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 01:04:27 PM
I would like this to be for real as much as the next guy but, so far, according to everything I have read here, it is just an ordinary rf generator lighting up some diodes, with zero evidence that it is OU.

If stiffler ever offers real evidence and enough information for people to replicate the circuit, or provides sample devices for people to test, then I guess we will know for sure one way or the other. But all he does, as far as i can see, is play games, the latest one being the 'big announcement' that he was going to make, but will not make because somebody dared to be skeptical.

He sure as hell doesn't sound like somebody who really has invented a world-changing device.

I was not trying to skeptical just explain the various functions the circuits preform. Stiffler himself says he does not believe in overunity. I do not challenge his view on this. (Read earlier posts) or go to his web site http://www.drstiffler.com read his views on overunity, to increase efficiency is to primary goal I assume. I may be wrong it's hard to tell from him what he thinks one paragraph he says overunity is erroneous and he does not believe in it then the next paragraph he talks about unknown power sources that will make the term overunity a common thing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 15, 2007, 01:28:02 PM
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here. He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.
You should try to build it for yourself and then you decide whether it is OU or not or, where the extra energy comes from (if any).

AM

Its this concillatory tone that turkeys (ducks) like this depend on to perpetuate their mallicious trolling on an undeserving good willed forum such as this one. I have stayed out of this long enough, I am a reasonable person but i insist that this game of cat an mouse should come to an end.

(Dr) Stiffler please put up or shut up. Your condescending tone towards all descenters of your game has gone on too long and is detrimental to this forum. You can not hide behind your scientific smoke screen forever so better to come out now before you besmirch what good there is left our your good name. We need intelligent people like you to work with, not to resent for some high school prank.

Regards,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 01:54:49 PM
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here. He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.
You should try to build it for yourself and then you decide whether it is OU or not or, where the extra energy comes from (if any).

AM

Its this concillatory tone that turkeys (ducks) like this depend on to perpetuate their mallicious trolling on an undeserving good willed forum such as this one. I have stayed out of this long enough, I am a reasonable person but i insist that this game of cat an mouse should come to an end.

(Dr) Stiffler please put up or shut up. Your condescending tone towards all descenters of your game has gone on too long and is detrimental to this forum. You can not hide behind your scientific smoke screen forever so better to come out now before you besmirch what good there is left our your good name. We need intelligent people like you to work with, not to resent for some high school prank.

Regards,

Dean

Please everyone I did not want this avalanche of Stiffler to start. You are free to believe any way you want about his clams. All I intended was to explain how his circuit works and challenge him calling my breakdown of his circuit "crap". If you think it will work try it if not don't. This is between me and him. He may plead the 5th and then its over.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 15, 2007, 02:03:41 PM
No .. its between him and all of us.. please try and remember this is a public forum and that he has offered his contribution to it as have you as have I.

Treating Dr Stiffler like some coy child is .. well .. you know how it is.

Regards,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 15, 2007, 02:08:21 PM

Please everyone I did not want this avalanche of Stiffler to start.

Stiffler left the Vortex forum because somebody dared to ask a few vaguely skeptical questions. If he hadn't got ticked off at something you said, he would have gotten ticked off at something else.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 15, 2007, 02:20:53 PM
No .. its between him and all of us.. please try and remember this is a public forum and that he has offered his contribution to it as have you as have I.

Treating Dr Stiffler like some coy child is .. well .. you know how it is.

Regards,

Dean

@dean
Since the beginning of this year you have posted 10 messages. 6 of them in this thread and not one of the in the spirit of co-operation. I believe I am beginning to understand how people like Bob Boyce or Bedini feel like.

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 15, 2007, 02:27:05 PM
According to Dr Stiffler's website, one experiment was done with a 9v 655 mAHr zinc carbon battery as the supply.
He got 27 hours of use with 10 x white leds rated at 3.8V 21mA with equates to 0.798 watts (that assumes the LED's are on 100% of the cycle).
Power from the battery is 9V x 0.655 AHr = 5.895 Watts for one hour or more realistically, 0.5895 watts for 10 hours.
Power out is 0.798 x 27 hours = 21.54 watts for one hour or 2.154 watts for 10 hours.

So 3.6 times more out than in or 360% efficient.
(Sorry for any errors in myÃ‚Â  maths)

The only thing that concerns me is that the brightness of the LED is only apparent brightness and that its flashing on and off 1000's of time a second.
The fillament bulb is a much better example and I would be more confident of the results from this.

@ DrZLowe7,
Still waiting for cores, should be here soon hopefully. I ordered some diodes and a couple of variable caps too.

Regards
Rob

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 15, 2007, 03:16:01 PM

The only thing that concerns me is that the brightness of the LED is only apparent brightness and that its flashing on and off 1000's of time a second.

Does this mean that, so far, there is zero evidence that the circuit is OU? In other words, as far as we know, it is a standard circuit - an rf generator with the antenna connected directly to to the LEDs? The kind of thing that is used in a flashgun?

I sincerely hope that Dr. Stiffler will show up again with some real evidence for OU.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 15, 2007, 03:33:56 PM
Hi Dean,
dont you think, lighting a few LEDs with just a ground cable is not quite amazing without any battery and all shielded ? So please be more polite. It is not a public forum, but my forum. Many thanks for understanding.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 15, 2007, 03:49:42 PM
Hi Dean,
dont you think, lighting a few LEDs with just a ground cable is not quite amazing without any battery and all shielded ?

Stefan, I'm not an experimenter, so maybe I am confused, but from reading the posts here, I thought that the circuit is powered, and that it is RF that is powering the diodes through the wire from the coil. i.e., that the wire is an antenna carrying the RF. There is no 'shielding' between the coil wire and the LEDs, is there? I mean, you can put all the aluminum baking pans you want around the circuit, but the antenna is still sitting next to the LEDs.

It sounds to me like the same kind of thing I used to do when I held a neon bulb near a transmitter antenna cable and the bulb would light up.

From what I have read, nobody has managed to figure out how much power is going in vs. how much power is needed to light the LEDs. Until then, what evidence is there that the circuit is any different from an ordinary circuit?

The problem I have is that Stiffler refuses to do anything but give little dribs and drabs of pretty much useless information and is letting experimenters spend time and money floundering around building a standard flash circuit. That is not a very nice thing to do to people.

And when someone asks any question that sounds the slightest bit skeptical, he goes off in a huff.

If somebody has invented the greatest thing since fire, you'd think he would be sending samples to testing laboratories, and publishing exact specs. And, biggest of all, taking some of the output and using it as input - making the thing self-sustaining.

We haven't seen any of that, and at this point, I doubt we ever will.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 03:59:57 PM
According to Dr Stiffler's website, one experiment was done with a 9v 655 mAHr zinc carbon battery as the supply.
He got 27 hours of use with 10 x white leds rated at 3.8V 21mA with equates to 0.798 watts (that assumes the LED's are on 100% of the cycle).
Power from the battery is 9V x 0.655 AHr = 5.895 Watts for one hour or more realistically, 0.5895 watts for 10 hours.
Power out is 0.798 x 27 hours = 21.54 watts for one hour or 2.154 watts for 10 hours.

So 3.6 times more out than in or 360% efficient.
(Sorry for any errors in my  maths)

The only thing that concerns me is that the brightness of the LED is only apparent brightness and that its flashing on and off 1000's of time a second.
The fillament bulb is a much better example and I would be more confident of the results from this.

@ DrZLowe7,
Still waiting for cores, should be here soon hopefully. I ordered some diodes and a couple of variable caps too.

Regards
Rob

I must state again I only described the function of circuit not its performance. Next the LED's are most likely rated at 21ma that does not mean they are using full power a LED will operate quite brightly at much lower than the rated value. (I am not saying he did check the current I just see 21Ma and assume that is LED's rating).  Another thing if it is flashing 1000's times a second your eyes can not detect the flicker still it is energized 50% of the time and of 50% of the time this will extend the life of the power source 2 times as the device is in the off state 50% of the time. This will appear to be overunity of 2X. This also applies if it strobes slow or fast. With a fast strobe the capacitor does not discharge completely the next charging pulse arriving to the capacitor does not take as much current to recharge it again still reducing current draw. Again with a strobe circuit do not assume 100% cycle or should I say constant output drive. Still 360% is very good. Or even if you divide it by 2 still very good. Hope you can reproduce his results. Even if you have longer than usual battery life still good. And yes a filament type bulb will display the current draw increase or decrease better that a LED at least until it gets near white hot..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 15, 2007, 05:41:10 PM
Just to revise my comment about the flashing of the LED:
I have just remembered that from experimenting with the PIC chip that switching and LED on and off 1000's of times a second just produces a very dimly lit LED.
So putting a scope across the LEDs and looking at the value of series resistor it may be possible to calculate output power.
I suppose the load is odd in that the current will only start flow once the voltage exceeds say 2V per LED (or there abouts).
If nothing else this will make an excellent circuit for a bycle light or work lamp, camping lamp etc.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 06:01:06 PM
Just to revise my comment about the flashing of the LED:
I have just remembered that from experimenting with the PIC chip that switching and LED on and off 1000's of times a second just produces a very dimly lit LED.
So putting a scope across the LEDs and looking at the value of series resistor it may be possible to calculate output power.
I suppose the load is odd in that the current will only start flow once the voltage exceeds say 2V per LED (or there abouts).
If nothing else this will make an excellent circuit for a bycle light or work lamp, camping lamp etc.

Regards
Rob

Just something to try. Power your LED through a diode this will cause some more voltage drop but still may work. And place a capacitor from the diode connection at the LED to ground. Try different values if you have them 10uf or so. If you have a very large value it may take a while before the capacitor becomes fully charged and the LED begins to glow even 10uf may take a little while. This should brighten them up a little maybe and reduce ripple so you make tests.
Got to go now for the day I have to work some.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 15, 2007, 08:17:54 PM
Hi Zachary,
Quote
Just something to try. Power your LED through a diode this will cause some more voltage drop but still may work. And place a capacitor from the diode connection at the LED to ground. Try different values if you have them 10uf or so. If you have a very large value it may take a while before the capacitor becomes fully charged and the LED begins to glow even 10uf may take a little while. This should brighten them up a little maybe and reduce ripple so you make tests.
This would be the obvious answer but I think that adding a capacitor will unbalance the circuit and certainly load the primary at a different phase angle/position.
Perhaps Dr Stiffler has already tried this and found that it killed the output.
I want to have a go at this circuit and see what output I can get, I have most of the components - low power mosfets, some diodes, 13000mcd white LEDs etc. I do not have a big choice of inductors but what I can try is winding a coil onto a huge toroidal core.
T650-52
http://www.micrometals.com/pcparts/torcore7.html

Mount it all on this board:
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/Inverter_testing.jpg)
Regards
Rob

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 15, 2007, 08:33:57 PM
No .. its between him and all of us.. please try and remember this is a public forum and that he has offered his contribution to it as have you as have I.

Treating Dr Stiffler like some coy child is .. well .. you know how it is.

Regards,

Dean

@dean
Since the beginning of this year you have posted 10 messages. 6 of them in this thread and not one of the in the spirit of co-operation. I believe I am beginning to understand how people like Bob Boyce or Bedini feel like.

AM

Are you referring to my comments made to the other brats that were diluting this forum with their hogwash ?

They scurried off soon enough too .. i really dont mind genuine efforts even if they are misguided though this is honestly somthing else. Is it just me who can see it ?

I promise i will say no more on this issue Stefan ... i respect this is your forum. Hope to contribute something more positive in the future.

Regards,

Dean

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 16, 2007, 12:44:19 AM
I really do not see what's everyone's obsession with O/U at all. The way I see it is that one day (I hope soon in our future) we'll have a black box that you would plug your devices in and you'd have power. This box will self-regulate and adjust to power requirements of the devices connected. How that box works and what's inside it will totally be irrelevant to 99% of the people on this planet, as it should.

No doubt there will be people even then who would find the "hair in the egg" with this black box, and question its operation, but that's just natural human behaviour. Bottom line is who cares, if it works and provides us with clean and sufficient/replacement power to existing sources, it is something we do not have right now and badly need.

Yet, none of the above really matters at all and most of you fail to step back and look at the pieces of the "big picture". I do not say I know the "big picture" but from what little I could piece together over the years, the implications of having a black box providing power go beyond quarreling electronics enthusiasts and into political, economical and social interests, aspects and areas of our lives. Matter a fact they begin there, the technological part is the least of our problems and worries, and if we are to believe those few "insiders", the technology to achieve what we seek has been around for at least 50 if not 100 years.

Problem is that when you have a black box power your devices you become an individual, which in this context means a detached entity from the rest of the collective. You have partially went "off the grid" and are one step closer to truly being free from the burdens in life. And now I'll stop here and let you reflect on this because its implications are far reaching, just think about it...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 16, 2007, 04:30:15 AM
I haven't received my coils yet, so I can't run this experiment myself yet, but if somebody can run it, it could possibly give us some hard evidence that the circuit is drawing in energy from the environment. Its entirely possible Dr. Stiffler or somebody else has already run this experiment, but until everybody (and I mean everybody, not just one side of this argument) gives some experimental proof of OU, this thread is just going to be a collection of opinions, and rather hostile ones at that.

What needs to be done is to measure:
1. The power being consumed Dr. Stiffler's driver circuit, at the signal generator, and the brightness of the LEDs it is powering
2. The power consumed by the same LEDs (at the same brightness) when powered directly by the signal generator.

Note: The waveform being produced by the signal generator for 2 must be exactly the same as the waveform produced by the driver circuit in 1. As such, the signal generator may need to be adjusted between 1 and 2. This is because the efficiency of the actual LEDs may be different when driven by specific signals (as discussed by some people already).

Also, make sure when measuring the power consumed by the driver circuit or the plain LEDs that you account for the fact that it is AC power you are dealing with - you probably don't just want to stick a multimeter over it.

If it takes more power to drive the LEDs to the same brightness without the driver circuit, then obviously the driver circuit is bringing energy into the system from somewhere. If not, then we haven't necessarily disproved it, we just haven't proved it.

If we find that there *is* extra energy coming into the system, another interesting experiment to run would be to measure the difference in power over the actual LEDs at the same brightness. If we are dealing with cold electricity, then from what I have read, you will likely not see any difference on your instruments in the amount of power the LEDs are consuming - thus why you must measure the actual driver circuit's input.

@Dr. Stiffler:
Please don't take offence at this post; personally, I am of the opinion that you are actually onto something. While your circuit must bear some resemblance to existing RF stuff for so many people to point it out, the other things you've posted such as your ground-only circuit and the SEC stuff show that RF can't be the whole story. I simply want to put this experiment out there, as I think a bit of hard experimental evidence it would clear up a lot of the non-constructive name-calling this thread has going on at the moment.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spokane1 on November 16, 2007, 04:49:14 AM
Dear DrZLowe7.

I received my order of 20 loops sticks quickly and just as you described. Thank you for the fast service. Let the experiment begin in ernest.

Since you  are the importer of these components do you happen to have any detailed information (data sheets or such) on just what these little black bars are made of? (or I should say what they are suppose to be made of). I don't care if they are composed of Barrium Ferrite or last years Peanut Butter. They seem to do some pretty interesting things as is and need to be investigated much closer.

You speak with the confidence of a person who has been in your business a while. As far as I can tell part of your customer base might be crystal radio hobbists. If you have a moment could you share with us your particular expericance with the performance, manufacture, and supply of the various antenna loop sticks that you have sold or experimented with over the years. Perhaps you might have some links to good information sources that explain just how these devices work in the first place - from a classical standpoint. How many different major variatons of this componenet are to be found in old salvaged transistor radios? Are they all basically all the same or do they fall into distinct classes or groups? I know there is a wide variation in aspect ratio, but does that have anything to do with the fundamental classical operation? Do the loop sticks in AM, FM, or ShortWave radios vary a lot? Is there a one size fits all?

I suppose, in the Crystal Radio Community, there are fundamental principles on how to improve the performance of these low power circuits that might not necessarly be based on pure classical electronic theory. Do you happen to know of any examples where the antenna loop sticks (like the ones you are selling) might have increased performance with no particular classical reason? Are there brands of loop sticks that are superior to others even though they have the same measurable parameters? (Like good Wine)

On eBay I notice there is a seller in Lithuania that is offering a number of 10mm x 200mm ferrite rods and some other configurations. Do do have any opinion on this product (or the seller if you have run across them)? They are suppose to be from a failed Russian Radio Factory. Shipping merchandise from that far away is bothersome to me. Anyway the seller claims that the frequency range is up to 1MHz for the small bars they carry. Any idea as to what the operating range is for your particular product? As it is, several experimenters are exciting your units with frequencies up to 28 MHz. This might imply that the non-classical process is the result of over stressing the componenets intended design frequency range, but this is pure speculation.

While we are on the subject, any ideas as to the specific composition of the Litz wire that makes the pick up coil? Like number of conductors and the actual bare diameter of each. I would like to calculate the effective surface area that is being employed here. Are there other high performance pickup coil configurations available from your supplier or some other 3rd party source? I can hardly see the bare wires let alone measure them.

In the Crystal Radio field, what is the purpose of the Litz wire? I notice in other, older loop sticks the wire appears to be a single conductor. What parameter improves with multiple conductors? Does the Q of the coil improve through reduced skin effect? Perhaps this modification is intended to extend the frequency range of the coil. If so do you have any idea what kind of improvement a Litz wire coil has over a single conductor coil. In a application such as this does the intened operation depend on the length of the coil wire or just its effective inductance? Is the coil specifically engineered to match the Ferrite bar? or can I take the Litz coil and slip it over a longer Ferrite bar and get similiar or better performance? Is it true that the size of the Ferrite bar increases with length and is actually limited by the case it is to be installed in, thus providing another engineering trade off between length and performance.

Since you already have an established import business and probably get catalogs from the OEM's in China (and other places) are there other configurations of  Ferrite loop sticks or Ferrite rods and bars that are available should a local market develop here? Or is this component on its way out (like the vaccum tube) in favor of newer technologies? Is there more than one supplier of this product. Can you get these components from other countries - I know they would be more expensive from other sources. Are these bars available in bulk with out the pickup coil?

Do you have enough experiance in the marketing of these components such that if I were to discover that a particular salvaged loop stick had a record breaking performance  that you could tell me from looking at it where, when, and by who it was made? (I know this is a tall order but it might be a skill very much in demand in the near future)

Thank you for your factual analysis and any replies that you might have time to share with us concerning this multitude of questions.

Spokane1
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 16, 2007, 10:35:16 AM
@MRAMOS,
it is all on his page:

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Have a look there at

Fig: SP0x
and

Fig: SP0y

Good luck.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 16, 2007, 03:14:01 PM
L2 is the litz wire coil from the AM core
and L3 is the hand wound about 10 turn coil around it.
He used 2 coils in the circuit diagram for L2, cause it justhad more turns,
so to make it clear which one is the bigger turn Litz wire coil = L2

L1 is a 2.2 uH coil.
You can buy one in an electronic shop.
I bought one and mine looks like a resistor,
but Dr. Stiffler had an aircore coil for it.
Look at the real pictures in his page.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 16, 2007, 04:01:17 PM
Hi Stefan,
Quote
L2 is the litz wire coil from the AM core
and L3 is the hand wound about 10 turn coil around it.
He used 2 coils in the circuit diagram for L2, cause it justhad more turns,
so to make it clear which one is the bigger turn Litz wire coil = L2
Thanks for the info on the L2 showing as two coils, this was really confusing me - now I know its one coil.
Have you got an LCR meter?
Using this you could wind the L1 air core coil by hand and add/remove turns to get 2.2uH.
If we could work out using some standard plastic pieces for a former, I could wind it and tell you the number of turns using my LCR meter so that you could copy it.
Maybe a couple of discs of plastic, nylon bolt, nylon washers?

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 17, 2007, 02:24:02 AM

Stefan
I received a message from stating that the winding on L1 is important. So I looked at the schematic again. The Transistor M1 switches on and off the power pulse is Negative and  due to transformer action its power is directed in the Positive direction. Same as the diodes are wired. As stated earlier placing the open end of L3 may make this less important.

I was doing good to get the information I did on the coils. As far as I know it is in way special.
As far as other makes of ferrite bars sold I can not speculate on them. As they are made to perform best at certain frequencies.
The Litz wire I do not know gage ether however do a Goggle search will direct to sites that specifies number of wires diameters.
There is a theory that electrons only flow on the outer surface of a wire so the more the wires the better. I do not know of any positive proof however but there may be so deluge the site with posts about wire.
The Litz wire is covered with cotton making the spacing between turns greater thus reducing the capacitance and increasing Q value. I think if you had a 1 hair diameter wire and wind it to hairs distance apart it will work the same. Some swear by Litz and other say it makes no difference. I do not care they both work.
Toroid  coils have the best efficiency ratings that I know of that are readily available with many different core materials and sizes. However they are very difficult to wind.
I can think of no tricks basically like  Stiffler has done a low turn secondary and many turn primary on the Tank circuit. Voltage is everything in crystal sets as they have almost no load.
The company that makes my coils makes chokes and such. They make the AM coils special order for me. This is not a item they sell over the counter.

@MRAMOS,

It is not time to leave the 1970?s but return to under stand  function of these devices.
Every 20 years or so things come around again and each generation thinks it is new Fashions, Songs, and Electrical devices.
Let see if we can see what is going on here function wise. Ground is not always totally neutral or 0 potential. Try this if you have digital volt meter , with the set to around 20 volts AC scale hold one probe with your fingers and put the other on something you know is grounded. If you are not sure of grounding put the probe in the ground hole of an outlet socket. I get around 1.8 volts output. Checking a 12ft antenna I have strung about 6ft high I get .6 volts. A volt meter reduces the actual voltage output to .707 level so my 1.8V = 2.545 actual volts and .6V becomes .848 volts. Now run this into a step up transformer L2 and you get maybe hundreds of volts out. Remember we are dealing with RF here so placing a pan under the circuit dose not mystify its operation but helps explain it.  For one a Faraday shield should completely cover the circuit with no active wire leaving it unshielded . Leaving the top open serves no purpose as a shield.
Because he is using a ProtoBoard here there is a capacitance between every connection to ground no matter how small so every LED has a source to the back plane of the board. This is a path for RF to flow. Next placing it a pan also provides a capacitive connection to the pan another path for RF. So the back plane and pan only gives a loading source for the RF.
Now most grounding works by canceling out common noise like you read on your volt meter not because its totally neutral but provides an opposite charge in relation to your input as far as noise works. For the circuit to unexplainable the pan needs to be grounded at the coil side next the wire used for input needs to be shielded again at the coil end to ground and the base of ProtoBoard grounded also.
Most oscilloscopes with not pick up this noise as they are grounded again the ground canceling the noise. If any one wants to try take a cheap two prong extension cord and remove the area that prevents the cord from your oscilloscope  from connecting. Power up your scope place one hand on ground and probe any thing you can find. Next take 3 ft or so of aluminum foil and put one probe on it the other to your noise source. You will be amassed how much energy surrounds us.
For this to work Location is every thing the more active RF surrounding you the better chance. Because we are using transformers here their has to be AC from somewhere for it to work. This will not work in the middle of the rain forest with just a grounding rod in ground. This acts similar to standing under a high voltage power line lighting a florescent bulb but no need to step up voltage. Remember electric potential will flow in a single wire.
Again I am no criticizing his results only explaining how it functions as he said no one could answer this on his site. The only thing I can not explain is over 100ma drive.
I thinking of maybe starting a posting of how things function not perform however,
I also do not think L2 2.2uh is absolutely necessary.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 17, 2007, 03:06:11 AM
DrZLowe7,
Do you think you can get your supplier to give you the specification of the core material? There is a big issue about
Barium Ferrite properties and as we are trying to get to the bottom of things, it is important to know such facts.

Regards

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 17, 2007, 03:29:41 AM
DrZLowe7,
Do you think you can get your supplier to give you the specification of the core material? There is a big issue about
Barium Ferrite properties and as we are trying to get to the bottom of things, it is important to know such facts.

Regards

AM
Please go back to the 16th posting page.
Stiffler says Barium not necessary.
So what the Doctor says then do.
Lets get off the Barium kick. If you are making this and it does not work it has nothing to do with Barium.
He says I told him they did. I never talked to guy and what you see advertised on my site has been there since I started selling them. If he says I told him that he is mistaken (I will not use the word lie).He can not put his Barium clam on me. I am not responsable for his claim.
Here is his quote:

Two things are no longer of significance until shown otherwise.

1) Effect caused by Ba content in the cores. This was built upon from another group where one of my circuits was shown. Because of frequencies an how the circuit responded it was a viable idea, for awhile. I have not run spectral analysis on any of the cores, I am taking  what was told me by the supplier that the cores were BaFe among other things.
Show me posting where he now changes his mind again?

I posted a while back. iron with zinc magnesium binder. No Barium especially as cheap as they are believe me tear a coil out of your radio will be better or same.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 17, 2007, 12:39:00 PM
DrZLowe7,

I am curious as to how many orders a week you would noramally recieve for these particular loop sticks and how
many orders you have recieved lately. Is business booming ?

Regards,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 17, 2007, 04:30:16 PM
Okay, I experimented now with the new coil-cores and I must definately say, that the amplification effect comes from the cores !
If you hit them with a pulse Via a coil, these cores just ring many cycles with their own resonance frequency.
So when you hit this resonance frequency or a harmonics below it, you get quite an a?plification by the selfringing oscillation of the cores. I will try to double check this now again with some other coils around the cores and post later some pics.
Please Dr. Lowe try to get the exact coilation of substances used on these cores. This is now very important to know how exactly these were built. Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on November 17, 2007, 06:01:38 PM
@Stefan

Are you saying that, using the coil only, when you pulse a single pulse from a signal generator and have a properly terminated resistance load on the other winding (in correct ratio to the impedance ratio of the transformer and nominal 50 ohm source load) that you get a ringing that lasts much longer?

I guess we will have to wait for your pictures but this would be remarkable only if the output is properly terminated and the output waveform and energy could be shown to exceed the single pulse input energy.  Lots of circuits and all reactive elements will exhibit ringing at some frequency when unterminated or improperly loaded.

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 17, 2007, 10:48:07 PM
Okay, I was wrong.
The new cores are not better than the cores I already had.
These are the litz-wire coils which are better !

It seems these coils have a very high Q, so if you use them as a choke
at the output of a square wave generator and you hit their resonance frequency
they just put out a very high voltage.
In my case still 200 Volts p-p  at around 1.3 Mhz at the input (in front) of
the 2 avramenko diodes from 12 Volts p-p square input.
Other coils don?t have such a high quality Q and thus you don?t get this high voltage
which lets the LEDs shine brightly after the Avramenko plug.

I just recorded a movie, as this shows it much better than just pictures.
Still have to convert it and then post it.
Stay tuned.
P.S: All the effects are very dependable of the RF properties
of all the used components, so also an aluminium backplate of the eperimentation board
matters a lot and I urge all experimenters to test it without an experimentation board
and just use a normal PCB, there you will have different stray capacitances and this
will matter big time and you might wonder, why you don?t get it to run there.
Also you need to have the right wire length between oscillator output and coil
and avramenko plug.
Seems standing waves are also important at these frequencies...
not so easy this circuit concept...
So I will switch now to the EMdevices circuit.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 17, 2007, 10:48:44 PM
I have posted a new oscillator that works very well, 'The Thomas Oscillator'

It uses a single transistor and when the start resistor is properly selected and used  with the coils as I specify it is very effective and can drive 36 Ultra-Bright White LEDS while being very OU.

Take a look at it, no excuse for not using it, this is a great driver. http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Oh and you .....  the day is close where the Jester be known :-)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 17, 2007, 11:16:07 PM
Current status of SEC, 'Spatial Energy Coherence'. It now appears that I have been partially in error, in that the coils 'Do Not' determine the OU effect, yet they can enhance it. What that means is that I now have information that replicators have achieved OU when using air core coils. This does not mean that you should in anyway ignore what I have published, as it does present the best and quickest way to obtain the desired end result.

Air core coils may work, I can not say from experience, all I can say is that the cores and coils I have specified, 'Do' when properly configured display OU. If you want to go in other directions, then you are indeed on your own and your negative feedback is not relevant.

Do it how I have presented it and you will see the desired result. If you play the cut and paste type of construction, you are only fooling yourself.

Associates (6) in all around the world have duplicated the OU condition to the extent that there is little doubt that it is real.

Do it right and join the team, do it your way or be a 'Lip' server and so be it, your out of the loop.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on November 17, 2007, 11:55:03 PM
"One of the initial problems in starting this approach was the light lost from the sides of the LEDS due to reflections in their plastic enclosures. The first of many solar cells proved to be less than efficient. The one shown above was made from film and was highly reflective as can be seen on the the proto-board directly below the LEDS."

You might find some good leds, and lenses here to get more efficiency.
http://www.luxeonstar.com/

Might also want to look into GaInP solar cells.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 17, 2007, 11:59:42 PM
I will try and answer everones questions.
@Stefan
Any coil will show this action it will what I call "Ping" many times maybe 20 times or so this is very dependant upon the "Q" of a coil. This is way a crystal oscillator circuit works that uses a overtone crystal. For instance if I apply the output from a 1 MHz crystal to a coil tuned to 7 MHz it will produce a stable output of 7 MHz. This works like pushing a swing the first push is strong and starts the swing moving after the swing swings 7 times you give it another push.
A coil will "Ping" many times however after it's 7th "Ping" most of it's useful energy will be diminish  that is why overtone crystal oscillators stop at 7 , 5 or 3 overtone "Swing". If you notice your scope reading you will see the diminished power from the initial pulse to the 7th.

As far as the coils go the manufacturer most likely purchases the raw materials for there coils form someone else. It is very unusual for a manufacturer to make most of their own raw materials.

@dean_mcgowan
Business is not booming as far as coil sales go. I searched my records from 60 days ago from about the time I noticed an extra amount of coils being sold. I have sold about 115 coils that were purchased with out other radio items. @\$1.87 each I am not becoming rich. If there are 100's of people trying to make these they are not buying from me. I count about 15 different people. I also stated in an earlier post that a coil from your AM pocket radio would most likely work as well.

@mramos
Yes I mean the 2.2uh coil. If it is critical I assume again it may because you are adding another 2 capacitive sources to ground from plug into the ProtoBoard.
To reply to your other posts. Yes some people do care about function. Aren't you glad to know the power is not coming nothing.

There may me something to extra "Pinging" from the coils. There is no magic here as to function. As to self running LED circuit again I telling about function. If you were left to believe the power came from nothing I could tell you it came for from the 5th dimension and you would have to believe me as you could not disprove me. And again I believe Location is in important. I was taking the "Magic" from its function as I think some were starting to believe the source of RF was coming from some unknown source. The source is not unknown but the POWER over 100ma is.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 18, 2007, 12:01:27 AM
Jester ???

6 replications and 0 publications ... yes I agree the Jester will be apparent soon  ::)

The thick plottens :P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 18, 2007, 12:13:40 AM
Jester ???

6 replications and 0 publications ... yes I agree the Jester will be apparent soon  ::)

The thick plottens :P

Gee! does not your post explain why there are no publications. What is the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink'.

We have all learned our lesson from your type of distraction. So many people suffer because of your inference. Do you by chance work for OPEC?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 18, 2007, 12:20:42 AM

Associates (6) in all around the world have duplicated the OU condition to the extent that there is little doubt that it is real.

Do it right and join the team, do it your way or be a 'Lip' server and so be it, your out of the loop.

I don't get it: why should anyone have to join a 'team' to be allowed to understand how to build a device that is so earth-shaking? When Roentgen discovered x-rays, he didn't require that anybody join a team; he published the exact way to make an x-ray machine, and laboratories all over the world were soon making them.

If 6 people have made OU devices, let's have the exact circuit so that people all over the world can do it, instead of what we see here, of people spending time and effort guessing at what is needed.

And let's have real evidence of OU; my understanding is that RF power input is difficult to measure. How do you or the 6 others know that the devices they have made are OU?

This whole thing sounds so phony that it is impossible for me to believe it is anything other than a delusion.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 18, 2007, 12:22:46 AM
Current status of SEC, 'Spatial Energy Coherence'. It now appears that I have been partially in error, in that the coils 'Do Not' determine the OU effect, yet they can enhance it.

Hi Ron,
is this a typo and you wanted to say:
"that the cores..."
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 18, 2007, 12:30:26 AM
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) .. sorry weren't my smiley's loud enough for you  ... OPEC ..... hehehehehe ...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 18, 2007, 01:00:43 AM
Hi Stefan,
Quote
is this a typo and you wanted to say:
"that the cores..."
It is correct to say "in that the coils", this makes perfect sense to me.

Perhaps another way of writing this sentence would be:
Quote
"It now appears that I have been partially in error, the coils themselves do not create the OU effect but they can enhance it."

I have been winding some air cores this evening for people without LCR meters to be able to wind their own.
2.2uH can be achieved by winding 12 turns onto a 15mm former using 0.56mm enamel copper wire.
I used a highlighter pen as the former, wound the turns then locked them in place using PVC insulation tape.
Then I was able to slide the coil off the former.
I need to order some lintz wire to see if I can get a better Q, currently its only 0.19 at 1KHz.
Although I have a lintz air core wound on waxed paper former that measures 2uH and its Q at 1KHz is very low, like 0.002.
I also had a core with 11 turnsÃ‚Â  wound on a 15mm former and the Q was slightly lower at 0.15 but this has more tape on it.
I am wondering if I glue it with epoxy to make it rigid if the Q would be better.
Maybe smaller diameter coil, thinner wire, or even a torroidal air core.

(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/22uHcoil.jpg)

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 18, 2007, 01:26:41 AM
Okay, my new video is now online:

I just checked again the input power:

12 Volt and 3 mA when I disconnect the coil ,Avramenko plug and LEDs from the output.

12 Volt and 7 mA when I have the LEDs running

So 84 mWatts with LEDs - 36 mWatts without LEDs= 48 mWatts power for the running LEDs,
so do I have more brightness then 48 mWatts ?
Have to check this out with more LEDs.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 18, 2007, 03:56:27 AM

So 84 mWatts with LEDs - 36 mWatts without LEDs= 48 mWatts power for the running LEDs,
so do I have more brightness then 48 mWatts ?
Have to check this out with more LEDs.

Stefan, if you supply 12 Volts DC into a LED via a 1 k-ohm resistor it will consume roughly 12 milli-Amps of current. Therefore its power usage will be 12 V x .012A = 144 MilliWatts. This one "standard candle" already uses slightly more power than your total circuit consumption.

Why not use this "standard candle" to compare the luminescence of each LED to it for a reference point. You could set up a little ohm-meter connnected to a LDR which is set inside a small black plastic tube which could then be placed over each LED for measuring the "relative" light output. It would be more accurate than the human eye in detecting real Lumin levels and trying to determine relative brightness.

I noticed when looking at your video, that you had about 8 or 9 LEDS glowing very brightly!   :o
If each one was glowing at least as brightly as a "standard candle", then your Lumin output would be well over the expected output for the megre 84 milliwatts total consumption that you're circuit is using. Even if each LED was only half as bright as a "standard candle", the total number of LEDS may still be exhibiting a greater total brightness than 84 milli-watts might normally produce from standard DC.

Measuring input may be easy but measuring output seems to be the hard thing!

Some sort of reliable standardised output comparison method needs to be implemented to give an empirical framework for your
results.

Great research, great video. Great stuff Stefan!

Cheers from the Toad who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 18, 2007, 04:17:26 AM
Tests on LED apparent brightness:
The human eye detects peak light levels. There are cells in the eye that trigger when light above a specific level hits them. These cells send a message to the brain saying that there is a light in a certain location. It takes time for these cells to reset. If after some time has past and they have reset and they are again triggered and send another signal to the brain, the brain assumes that the light was on continuously the full time between signals. When pulses are used to power a filament light bulb, it takes time for the bulb to turn on and the bulb will look dim if only short pulses are used. But LEDs turn on very quickly and so will reach full brightness even with very short pulses. I used the following circuit to determine how little average power was needed to make an LED appear to be at full brightness when it is being pulsed. This circuit develops several hundred volts at the collector and produces very short pulses with high current. Thus the LED is turned on very brightly for only a small part of each cycle (about 1%). It is very difficult to measure current pulses accurately. This circuit accomplishes this by measuring the current through the resistors after the capacitor at the LED output has fully charged. At this time no net current is going into the capacitor and it has a relatively steady voltage across it making it possible to make an accurate measurement of the voltage across one of the resistors (from which the current can be calculated). The LED used for this test was a super bright green LED rated at 15,000 mcd at 3.6 volts and 50 ma. which would be 180 mw power consumption for full brightness. But as the test shows, the same apparent brightness was obtained using pulses with only 0.43 ma average power which is only 1.5 mw. Therefore the LED was actually consuming about 1% of the power requited for the equivalent brightness using continuous current instead of pulses.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 18, 2007, 04:39:13 AM
Tests on LED apparent brightness:
The human eye detects peak light levels. There are cells in the eye that trigger when light above a specific level hits them. These cells send a message to the brain saying that there is a light in a certain location. It takes time for these cells to reset. If after some time has past and they have reset and they are again triggered and send another signal to the brain, the brain assumes that the light was on continuously the full time between signals. When pulses are used to power a filament light bulb, it takes time for the bulb to turn on and the bulb will look dim if only short pulses are used. But LEDs turn on very quickly and so will reach full brightness even with very short pulses. I used the following circuit to determine how little average power was needed to make an LED appear to be at full brightness when it is being pulsed. This circuit develops several hundred volts at the collector and produces very short pulses with high current. Thus the LED is turned on very brightly for only a small part of each cycle (about 1%). It is very difficult to measure current pulses accurately. This circuit accomplishes this by measuring the current through the resistors after the capacitor at the LED output has fully charged. At this time no net current is going into the capacitor and it has a relatively steady voltage across it making it possible to make an accurate measurement of the voltage across one of the resistors (from which the current can be calculated). The LED used for this test was a super bright green LED rated at 15,000 mcd at 3.6 volts and 50 ma. which would be 180 mw power consumption for full brightness. But as the test shows, the same apparent brightness was obtained using pulses with only 0.43 ma average power which is only 1.5 mw. Therefore the LED was actually consuming about 1% of the power requited for the equivalent brightness using continuous current instead of pulses.

Fantastic observation XEE.
It is my contention in these sorts of experiments, that "apparent" outputs can be just as useful as "real" outputs.
When designing lighting for example, the information you just furnished can result in great savings.

If the human eye only needs a very bright light for a very brief time, to "perceive" that it's a very bright light all of the time, then O/U is not necessary to make major breakthroughs in energy saving lighting methods. If the human eye perceives that the light is bright, then the light has done it's job!.... KneeDeep.....

Thanks for publishing the circuit and chiming in with your info. Well timed!

Cheers from the Toad who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on November 18, 2007, 05:19:23 AM
The human eye detects peak light levels. There are cells in the eye that trigger when light above a specific level hits them. These cells send a message to the brain saying that there is a light in a certain location. It takes time for these cells to reset. If after some time has past and they have reset and they are again triggered and send another signal to the brain, the brain assumes that the light was on continuously the full time between signals.

I do not believe this is true for the MHz frequencies being used by people in this thread.Ã‚Â  It is certainly not true for the video cameras being used to capture the videos that we see posted on youtube (unless you synchronize the LED to the video frames), so we observers can at least be certain that we are not seeing any odd duty cycle effects.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 18, 2007, 05:49:45 AM
The point was that LEDs sometimes look like they are consuming more power than they actually are. Therefore your suggestions might not always work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 18, 2007, 06:01:31 AM
The point was that LEDs sometimes look like they are consuming more power than they actually are. Therefore your suggestions might not always work.

"Therefore your suggestions might not always work."

That wouldn't be the first time, nor the last I suspect!  LOL   :D  LOL  :D  KneeDeep

Cheers XEE
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 18, 2007, 06:02:24 AM
@ Mr.Entropy.
You could be correct. I do not wish to start argument. But video camera CCD responseds very similar to human eye. It records peak level of light on pixel during each frame (about 1/30 second), the CCD does not record how often that level was reached during the frame.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 18, 2007, 07:40:21 AM
@Mr.Entropy,
Sorry, I do not know much about CCDs so I should not have said anything about them. I only wanted to point out that sometimes it is hard to tell how much power an LED is using just by looking at it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 18, 2007, 08:08:09 AM
Hey guys

I don't know if you saw my post a few pages back, but I outlined a way which unless I am mistaken should measure if the circuit is OU, and by how much, and also takes into account any perceived brightness vs. actual brightness discrepancies.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449)

Stefan: would you be able to give the experiment in the above topic a run through with your coils? I think it would go a long way towards putting some hard numbers towards exactly how much this experiment is OU.

- James
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 18, 2007, 09:10:11 AM
Hey guys

I don't know if you saw my post a few pages back, but I outlined a way which unless I am mistaken should measure if the circuit is OU, and by how much, and also takes into account any perceived brightness vs. actual brightness discrepancies.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449)

Stefan: would you be able to give the experiment in the above topic a run through with your coils? I think it would go a long way towards putting some hard numbers towards exactly how much this experiment is OU.

- James

KneeDeep... Sorry I missed that post.     ......KneeDeep
Still, I think that measuring the light output in any given LED against a known "standard" is a good place to make comparisons. Astronomers are expert at this!  Maybe one could pop in and put in his/her two cents worth...KneeDeep .......That is if we can drag them away from their black holes! LOL  :D

If there is such a thing as "Cold Electricity" which doesn't act like "ordinary electricity" then trying to make output and input comparisons on the basis of Voltage and Current readings would be erroneous and fruitless. The only common link between all the different circuits, and a standard in series DC circuit is the "light" emitted from the LEDS. All else in the circuit/s is/are a variable, but the light emissions are something which can be measured in a standardized manner.

If there isn't such a thing as Cold Electricity, then all that is needed is an accurate measurement of Lumens/unit area, and power input to determine a Lumens per Watt for any given circuit.

All I wish to know is whether RF excitation is capable of actually outputting more Lumens per watt, than straight DC using LEDS???
To know that requires a method of measuring the actual light output, not the electrical power output.
For that I wait in anticipation of further results from the "do-ers" , Bless them all!  :D

KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 18, 2007, 09:29:22 AM
I understand what you say about cold electricity making measuring current/voltage fairly useless - I've actually taken account of this in the experiment I proposed. Basically, the idea is that you get the same waveform going through the LEDs in both cases, and have a look how much input power goes through either the driver circuit, or the plain LEDs, for the same light output.

The reason this works even with the effects of cold electricity taken into account is that with your plain LEDs circuit, without Dr. Stiffler's driver, you know there is no cold electricity. Knowing how much power it takes to drive the LEDs to a certain brightness under a certain waveform, you can then measure the amount of operator input into the driver for the same brightness, with the same waveform through the LEDs, and can instantly tell how much the system is over unity.

Remember that what we are interested is the amount of environmental input for a given operator input - this experiment is for measuring just that.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 18, 2007, 12:02:55 PM
@Xee

If Xee was right I would be really happy, great areas could be illuminated using impulses LED with elevated frequency (MHz). A camera measures the number of photons with an integration equal to the time of exposure. it is important that photons don't  saturate the sensor. It is possible to make a test putting out focus the camera and exposing in non automatic way. To this point the image, in the single pixelses, it will report a measure of the intercepted photons.
However I have the feeling that the circuit of Xee both type impulsive, therefore with elevated spike of current. A LED can be drive, for brief times, with strong current and therefore to send an equivalent light as a continuous feeding. This is particularly true for the LEDs to elevated brightness.
I would want that Xee measured the current and tension that it passes through the LED, with an oscilloscope, so that to have a real measure of the consumed power. If this affirmation is true, we can illuminate the world spending 1% of energy. Unfortunately I believe that is low probability.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 18, 2007, 05:49:57 PM
Jester ???

6 replications and 0 publications ... yes I agree the Jester will be apparent soon  ::)

The thick plottens :P

Gee! does not your post explain why there are no publications. What is the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink'.

We have all learned our lesson from your type of distraction. So many people suffer because of your inference. Do you by chance work for OPEC?

@Ron,

He is a minion in some Illuminati controlled organization.
His name appears in the the year book. Need I say more?
www.sigep.org/documents/journal-spring-2007.pdf

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: c0mster on November 18, 2007, 05:56:20 PM
I can?t stand it anymore? I know there are others out there too shaking their head as well. Stiffler you better learn about electronics and LED?s before you try to fool the world. Go ahead and get mad because someone posted something negative, at your age if you need to act that way you must have some real issues. Cold electricity, Claims of OU, Quote ?I?ll run my house off this?, your just like the rest of the show boaters that pop up here with no real data, no true scientific documents or proof, and your attitude proves it. Bla I won?t say anymore I just can?t believe this #####.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 18, 2007, 06:22:55 PM
ICold electricity, Claims of OU, Quote ?I?ll run my house off this?, your just like the rest of the show boaters that pop up here with no real data, no true scientific documents or proof, and your attitude proves it.

You've got that right. This thing is a joke. Stiffler's big announcement - six people have replicated the circuit and gotten OU. Right. With the same evidence, so far, as Stiffler has given us.

I used to light up neon bulbs from RF signals when I was a kid; as far as the evidence shows, Stiffler hasn't done anything more than that.

Let's see some evidence that the power out is greater than the power in. What is it? 400 percent, supposedly? Wow, with OU like that, it must be a breeze to make it self-sustaining.

But I'll bet there is a problem matching impedance or waveform or something like that. I won't hold my breath waiting for it to be done.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 18, 2007, 07:12:24 PM
Each can have the an original opportunity to express his own joy. But this way must not have any relationship with the results that he is getting.
Seem me whether to succeed to piloting 36 LEDs with an oscillator composed by a transitor with max power of 0.62W are a good result, of sure this is utility for the new LED market. I have seen systems for the LED pilotage very heavy and expensive, this solution can be very interesting.
It is better however not to waste time in philosophy, but who has made his tests expose his results to the evaluation of everybody.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 18, 2007, 07:27:49 PM
Jester ???

6 replications and 0 publications ... yes I agree the Jester will be apparent soon  ::)

The thick plottens :P

Gee! does not your post explain why there are no publications. What is the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink'.

We have all learned our lesson from your type of distraction. So many people suffer because of your inference. Do you by chance work for OPEC?

@Ron,

He is a minion in some Illuminati controlled organization.
His name appears in the the year book. Need I say more?
www.sigep.org/documents/journal-spring-2007.pdf

Too funny for words,Stiffler is in good company.

;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 18, 2007, 07:57:09 PM
@abassign,
Yes, my explanation is bad. But, the measurements are correct. The point was that it is hard to tell just by looking at the LED how much power it is using. Thanks for the feedback.  :-[
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 18, 2007, 08:55:48 PM
@Xee
You are right, it is not correct to make the light measures by eye, the eye interprets the brightness in very particular way. However the tape of Stefan Hartmann ( http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=qRw_sCzhFnk ) is clear, if the power is that that he declares, it is a lot difficult to explain. At 2.'20" is possible to  observe the reflex of the bright flow on the oscilloscope, it covers the brightness of the room.
The bright flow is overcoming that of the room, and the LEDs are not near to the oscilloscope, and moreover their primary direction of flow is perpendicular at it, therefore the illumination produced by the LEDs is under the worse conditions.
Xee, job also in the field of the LEDs for environmental illumination, what I see sincerely surprise me.
However yours is a good observation! ;)

@Stefan
Is it possible to make the test with power LED for example 350-700 mA ?
In the tape, when you remove the oscilloscope probe , the LEDs are extinguished. For riactivate do you regulate the oscillator frequency ?
Can you display the oscillator circuit ?
Is it possible to make a test with more separation from the oscillator with the LEDs ?
In affirmative case, is it possible to use a thin wire ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 18, 2007, 09:32:55 PM
Well, I played all day yeasterday and today with the Stiffler circuit and also tested his exact setup with 9 turns of copper wire wound around the Litz coil and driving it with a cap in series with the 2.2 uH coil... But always in my tests this gave darker output at the LEDs than just using a cap and the litz coil coke going into the avramenko plug...
Also the circuit is very dependant of wire lengths and stray capacitances and standing waves...
So it is pretty hard to tune and when you move a cable a bit, you need to retune to the new resonance frequency, cause the stray capavitance just had changed...
So all in all, I tried to find out, where the OU effects could be coming from. The cores are enhancing the resonance effects of the litz coils, which have a very high Q and the core coil-combination are ringing a lot, when you hit them with pulses, but so far I have not seen any Overunity yet in my measurements...
I would really like, if Ron would investigate further, why his LEDs light up with just touching his circuit or putting a ground cable to than he is trying to use solar panels...
We really need to find out, what the real effect is, why his ground cable put on his circuit could light up his LEDs...
I was not able to light up any single LED(yes I  tried it with a single LED at the AP) with a ground wire or touching it, although I used the same circuit as Ron...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 18, 2007, 09:53:26 PM
I put today also a 22 uF cap across the 10 blue LEDs at the AP, so I had pure DC voltage there and I got at the best resonance frequency at around 1.5 MHz 25.5 Volts DC.
Then I put an analog milliampmeter in series with one of the 10 LEDs and it measured 0.6 mA at the best resonance point.The LEDs are not so bright as it seemed to be on my camera, as the CMOS chip of my camera saturates very fast at this LED blue light. Also these LEDs are these superbright types, that put out already quite some light at around 1 to 2 milliamps.
Okay, so output was then 25.5 Volts x 600 uA=15.3 mWatts.
Input was 12 Volts x 4.5 mA with the AP connected and
12 Volts x 3 mA without the AP connected.
So I had 54 mW input with the AP and 36 mW without it.
The difference gives 18 mW, so my output of 15.3 mW is still less then the difference increase input power of 18 mW.
So as these circuits depends much on RF effects and stray capacitances and Q resonance effects in Litz coils, I will now see, if somebody can introduce a real OU circuit with it with a positive feedback, that runs on its own energy and which is really replicateable with an offered kit including PCB board...otherwise this RF effects are just too variable to get someting to work in this frequency range.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 18, 2007, 10:17:42 PM
I will now see, if somebody can introduce a real OU circuit with it with a positive feedback, that runs on its own energy and which is really replicateable with an offered kit including PCB board...otherwise this RF effects are just too variable to get someting to work in this frequency range.
Regards, Stefan.

According to Dr. Stiffler, he and 6 other people have the device running and have OU!

Quote
Associates (6) in all around the world have duplicated the OU condition to the extent that there is little doubt that it is real.

That is a giant achievement, and taking some of the output to make it self-sustaining should be easy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on November 18, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
But video camera CCD responseds very similar to human eye. It records peak level of light on pixel during each frame (about 1/30 second) [...]

No, it doesn't.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 18, 2007, 10:25:58 PM
Why don't you guys use an optocoupler instead of the LED, measurement should then be easy.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 18, 2007, 10:31:12 PM
After the Avramenkp plug there is pure DC at the LEDs and the cap, so it is easy to measure there the DC power in the LEDs. No optocoupler circuit needed, you can measure pure DC electrical power.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 18, 2007, 10:58:56 PM
After the Avramenkp plug there is pure DC at the LEDs and the cap, so it is easy to measure there the DC power in the LEDs. No optocoupler circuit needed, you can measure pure DC electrical power.

I do indeed dispute that you have true DC. If another of the group that has worked with me wants to add to this, great, but, you can not on a properly running SEC circuit just throw a big electrolytic across the AV Plug and get DC.

Even with very elaborate low pass filters consisting of canceling inductors, followed by a 10uf + 0.1uf + 0.01uf followed by two 8mm ferrite beads, you can still hold a neon on the end with one lead in your fingers and get it to light. A true SEC circuit is at such high impedance that the mere addition of a couple inches of wire is enough to change the frequency.

It does indeed take time and care to make these measurement. The method of using a Light Meter or Cds cell and DVM will give good accurate results. With a working SEC you will get far more light (on meter) than you will get from equivalent DC drive to the same LED.

Stick two LEDS in a black tube, one is from a string of LEDS from a SEC and the other driven from a DC source.  With the ref Off, measure the light output of the single LED. Apply DC to the ref LED until you read twice the output (if using a Cds you need to adjust for its response curve). Or measure a single LED in a SEC and then remove it and drive it with DC for the same light output. Simple math will show where you are.

If you keep working with different configurations, you are just wasting your time. Nothing will work below 3.5mHZ, best depending on how well you wound and centered the primary, will be 10.8-12mHz.

It works guys. Yes RF is different from audio and it does indeed take care, but hey, its been done, follow instructions, don't improvise and invent.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 18, 2007, 11:07:31 PM
Exactly what I thought, hence the optocoupler.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 12:17:58 AM

I do indeed dispute that you have true DC. ......you can still hold a neon on the end with one lead in your fingers and get it to light.

Well, if I measure directly with my now ungrounded scope at the 22 uF cap across the AP and the 10 Diodes,
there is pure DC on the cap.

But the whole AP circuit is surely still oscillating with about 200 Volts p-p versus the circuit ground.

Soif you hold a neon bulb in your hands I still also get it to light up
a bit when I touch the plus or minus pole of the 22 uF cap, cause my  body
is at ground potential..
But the cap itself just has pure DC and thus the 10 LEDs just are powered
by pure DC Voltage.
No mystery here.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 19, 2007, 12:18:26 AM
Exactly what I thought, hence the optocoupler.

Hans von Lieven

Hans, you're great with brevity. You said in a few words what I tried to say in a few paragraphs!   LOL :D

Cheers from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 12:28:59 AM
Hi Ron and all,
the circuit board you are using with the 2 alu back plates really
treat your circuit very differently than my circuit board, that has no metal backplates !

Please try to build your circuit on a different experimentation board without
alu backplates and you will see, that you need at least 20 to 30 cm wire between
the last coil and the Avramenko plug to light the LEDs up at all and then the resonance frequency will
be at around 1.5 to 2 Mhz only.

I just modified my oscillator circuit and can now go from 1 Mhz to 20 Mhz
and I only get now a resonance at around 2 Mhz not anymore higher !
It really depends how long the wires are from the litzcoil to the avramenko plug.

There RF effects are a real "bitch".
As I said, try it without your alu backplates and all
will be different.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 19, 2007, 02:43:25 AM
Stefan,
Dare I say it, you are probably the person who should be being told to try it with the backplate. We're not trying to replicate stuff that doesn't work here, we're trying to replicate what Dr. Stiffler has apparently already got. Building stuff that we know doesn't work won't prove anything.

Also, please have a look at the experiments Dr. Stiffler (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59848.html#msg59848) and I (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449) outlined - they're rather similar. You cannot just measure the DC current going through the LEDs to check for over-unity, you actually need to check the input to the entire circuit against the light output. This is because we can't be sure that any over-unity effects behave in the same way that standard electricity does.

Lastly, due to imperfections in light meters and response times in LEDs, you must feed the same signal through the LEDs in the SEC, and the LEDs by themselves. Otherwise all you prove is that your equipment doesn't have an infinite resolution and accuracy, which goes without saying.

Hans,
I'm a bit of a noob and don't know the specifics of optocouplers, but is it possible that if we are dealing with cold electricity here, an optocoupler wouldn't be the way to go? While being sealed off is ideal, it seems to me that what we really want is to measure the output of the LEDs directly, not via an amplifier. The simpler the better. Of course, I could be wrong...

P.S.
Stefan: You really need to change the color for unvisited links to something other than the text color around it. From an actual web developer's perspective, it is a really bad usability and design decision. Ideally, you should just let them be blue like everywhere else.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 19, 2007, 03:15:16 AM
I have built the new "Thomas" oscillator circuit and I must say I'm quite impressed :D

I only have about 20 blue and white LEDs but boy do they shine bright or what. I did not have 2N3904 so I've used 2N2222A (found one with hFE of ~210). The circuit apparently oscillates at ~1.5MHz and uses ~32mA of current from my 12V gel battery though that figure seems to fluctuate up and down, I've seen it go up to 70mA when I was probing points with my scope but that's just temporary.

Either way a word of caution to everyone building this is not to just go around touching spots or bridging them with fingers on your two hands because there's 120-180Vp-p on the secondary output and you could (will) get shocked.

So now that this works how do we get rid of the battery altogether? ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 03:49:42 AM
@Amigo,
Did you built it also onto an experimentator board, that has 2 alu backplates ?

How do you control the resonance frequency with this circuit ?
How do you adjust it for optimal resonance ?

I hope we can get rid of these experimentator boards and can try to
create something that works on a normal PCB board, so one could
create a kit that also works without any problems.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 04:01:13 AM
By the way:

MUR 4100 E
1kV 4(125)A 75ns DO27
from Motorola

diodes work quite nice as the Avramenko Plug diodes.
A bit better than the 1N4148
at least in my setups.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 19, 2007, 04:20:55 AM
"You cannot just measure the DC current going through the LEDs to check for over-unity, you actually need to check the input to the entire circuit against the light output. "

Lumens out per input Watts, .....KneeDeep......LpW......KneeDeep  ;D

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 19, 2007, 04:22:22 AM
@Amigo,
Did you built it also onto an experimentator board, that has 2 alu backplates ?

How do you control the resonance frequency with this circuit ?
How do you adjust it for optimal resonance ?

I hope we can get rid of these experimentator boards and can try to
create something that works on a normal PCB board, so one could
create a kit that also works without any problems.

Photo is attached (turned out pretty nice in close-up). :)

I am using a standard breadboard with a single plate at the bottom since I do not have spare plate-less breadboards right now. Once I free one I'll try the circuit on a plain breadboard and report what happens.

I have tried changing the 190pf cap to 150 and 220 and that seems to have change the operating frequency by couple of tens of kHz. Otherwise I did not have to adjust anything, the circuit is self-regulating once the oscillations begin.

Power is supplied from the rail in the middle, connected to a 12V gel battery via alligator clips (out of frame).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 19, 2007, 05:30:33 AM

Previous quote "The circuit apparently oscillates at ~1.5MHz and uses ~32mA of current from my 12V gel battery though that figure seems to fluctuate up and down, I've seen it go up to 70mA when I was probing points with my scope but that's just temporary."

Photo is attached (turned out pretty nice in close-up). :)

Assuming 35 ma is the real average for the point of reference, then just 3 LEDS running at that current would account for 12 V x .035 = 420 milliwatts. You have what appears to be 20 LEDS running very brightly  :o  :o
Just how brightly! is the key question to me. Things "look" very promising from here.

Great Job Amigo.  ;)

KneeDe...

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 19, 2007, 05:35:17 AM
So now that this works how do we get rid of the battery altogether? ;D

Burn it ???

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 19, 2007, 05:37:46 AM
So now that this works how do we get rid of the battery altogether? ;D

Burn it ???

Hans von Lieven

LOL  :D
Recycling it might be a little more eco friendly.
Maybe not as spectacular though!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 19, 2007, 05:58:07 AM

Previous quote "The circuit apparently oscillates at ~1.5MHz and uses ~32mA of current from my 12V gel battery though that figure seems to fluctuate up and down, I've seen it go up to 70mA when I was probing points with my scope but that's just temporary."

Photo is attached (turned out pretty nice in close-up). :)

Assuming 35 ma is the real average for the point of reference, then just 3 LEDS running at that current would account for 12 V x .035 = 420 milliwatts. You have what appears to be 20 LEDS running very brightly  :o  :o
Just how brightly! is the key question to me. Things "look" very promising from here.

Great Job Amigo.  ;)

KneeDe...

P.S. Remember the idea of comparing the brightness to a "standard candle". 1 LED fed from 12 V DC through a 1-k ohm resistor = 144 milliwatt

If each of your LEDs was as bright as a "standard candle" which uses 144 milliwatts, then every LED above the first three would be well in excess of expectations, when you are only drawing 32 ma from 12V = 384 milliwatts!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 19, 2007, 12:41:59 PM
Just a note to all. I am just making a comment on components used. As a matter of safety do not place an electrolytic capacitor rated under 250 volts across the high voltage side of the circuit. I ounce accidentally placed a 6v capacitor in a 9v circuit and it blew up like a fire cracker. Next the diodes in circuit are not rated to handle a 200v reverse voltage. They may last a while but at sometime are due to fail. A high voltage diode should be used if you plain on running your devices for very long periods. As a standard do not operate a component at or near it maximum. I try not to exceed 50% just for longevity.
I will not be making many more posting unless asked. Or I see something some may do that is dangerous.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 05:22:36 PM
Many thanks Dr.Lowe for this warning.
My 22uF electrolyte cap is rated for 350 Volts.

As the voltage at the input of the Avramenko plug ( where the 2 diodes are connected together)
is oscillationg with about 200 Volts peak to peak
versus the circuit ground, I wonder, if the diodes and the 22 uF really feel this high voltage,
cause they are practically floating on this one wire...? ::)

It seems the oscillation is somehow rectified via the capacitance of the diodes,
so finding the best diodes for this purpose will help.
As I said the MUR 4100 diodes seemed to be better in output voltage.

But at my 22 uF cap I really have pure DC.
The diodes seem to rectify the about 2 Mhz 200 Volts p-p AC into DC
and charge up the cap accordingly,so it has pure DC voltage.

I will now going to try a "H" brigde driver with the 40106 I am using,
so to directly put the litz coil as the "center leg" in "H" bridge driver with 2 inverted drivers,
so it will get maximum current through it.
Hopefully my 40106 will not dy...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 05:55:00 PM
I got a private message asking this and thought this would interest also the public:

Quote
In your last video you mentioned how the coil were no different but what you are calling coils look to be magnets, is that what they are? If not, what are they made of.

These were all these litz wire coils put onto ferrite cores.
So no magnets, just AM radio ferrite cores.

I thought first that the ferrite cores Dr. Stiffler was using would be different, which
were the same...

It just depends only on the quality Q of the resonance of the LITZ coils.
They act like high quality Q ( low bandwidth) LC tank circuits at around 1.5 to 2Mhz.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 19, 2007, 07:22:03 PM
I got a private message asking this and thought this would interest also the public:

Quote
In your last video you mentioned how the coil were no different but what you are calling coils look to be magnets, is that what they are? If not, what are they made of.

These were all these litz wire coils put onto ferrite cores.
So no magnets, just AM radio ferrite cores.

I thought first that the ferrite cores Dr. Stiffler was using would be different, which
were the same...

It just depends only on the quality Q of the resonance of the LITZ coils.
They act like high quality Q ( low bandwidth) LC tank circuits at around 1.5 to 2Mhz.

Why do you always want to muddy the water? You talk about someone putting kits together, you ask people to try this and that.

Simply put the whole concept here is to be able like 'Amigo' and many other to get a working system so we can move from there. Yet you always want to change things, bring in new idea's and secret mails to further your point of view. I think you would best serve your viewers by not only asking them to do it correctly in the beginning and you follow by doing the same.

Every time you post this kind of stuff people think this is just something to throw together from the junk box, but are you ever so wrong. Stefan why can't YOU build one like 'Amigo', 'Ossie', 'Ben', 'Travis' etc., and them interject you new or special way (after you show yours works). Really should you insert idea's that are contrary until you really have a duplicate yourself????

So now we get all the negatives the whatnots and the you siders and the me siders. PLEASE stop with this, people get there when they follow the instruction and use the right components.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 19, 2007, 07:28:50 PM
Dr Stiffler,

Awsome, thats right.. you tell him, I mean its only his forum and if he responds negatively you have an out..
so can we now have the plan for the self powering version?

The one with no obvious power source and just a ground wire ?

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on November 19, 2007, 08:32:28 PM
Just a note to all. I am just making a comment on components used. As a matter of safety do not place an electrolytic capacitor rated under 250 volts across the high voltage side of the circuit. I ounce accidentally placed a 6v capacitor in a 9v circuit and it blew up like a fire cracker. Next the diodes in circuit are not rated to handle a 200v reverse voltage. They may last a while but at sometime are due to fail. A high voltage diode should be used if you plain on running your devices for very long periods. As a standard do not operate a component at or near it maximum. I try not to exceed 50% just for longevity.
I will not be making many more posting unless asked. Or I see something some may do that is dangerous.

It should be obvious by now to most, that this circuit is another form of teslas radiant energy circuits. It was noted by tesla at many points that maximum efficiency power is noted when the dielectric in the condenser is stressed to near breaking point. Therefore, it may be more dangerous, but it is also much more efficient.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Erfinder on November 19, 2007, 08:45:47 PM
It should be obvious by now to most, that this circuit is another form of teslas radiant energy circuits. It was noted by tesla at many points that maximum efficiency power is noted when the dielectric in the condenser is stressed to near breaking point. Therefore, it may be more dangerous, but it is also much more efficient.

;D  Simply marvelous!  Keep digging armagdn03!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 19, 2007, 09:00:00 PM
people get there when they follow the instruction and use the right components.

And it is clear from what you have reported that that method works. Like everybody else here, I was thrilled to know that 6 people besides yourself have achieved OU with the circuit:
Quote
Associates (6) in all around the world have duplicated the OU condition to the extent that there is little doubt that it is real.

If any of the people who have achieved OU are reading this, will you please tell us exactly what circuit you used, and how you know it is OU; it is hard to measure these things from what I understand, so please tell us how you did it.

Or have you achieved the holy grail and made your device self-sustaining???
Actually, that should be pretty easy, shouldn't it? If you are lighting 50 LEDs, replace 25 of them with wires leading to a converter to change the form of the power to whatever is needed as input to the circuit. Plug the output of the converter to the input of the circuit to replace whatever is powering it now, and the world is changed forever!

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 11:51:32 PM

Why do you always want to muddy the water? You talk about someone putting kits together, you ask people to try this and that.

Simply put the whole concept here is to be able like 'Amigo' and many other to get a working system so we can move from there. Yet you always want to change things, bring in new idea's and secret mails to further your point of view. I think you would best serve your viewers by not only asking them to do it correctly in the beginning and you follow by doing the same.

Every time you post this kind of stuff people think this is just something to throw together from the junk box, but are you ever so wrong. Stefan why can't YOU build one like 'Amigo', 'Ossie', 'Ben', 'Travis' etc., and them interject you new or special way (after you show yours works). Really should you insert idea's that are contrary until you really have a duplicate yourself????

So now we get all the negatives the whatnots and the you siders and the me siders. PLEASE stop with this, people get there when they follow the instruction and use the right components.

Dear Ron,
I am now not trying to rebuilt your exact circuit as I stated before,
but are trying to understand the exact behaviour of the underlying principles, that it seems you don?t
try to study.
I tried to build it exactly like you before this and only had underunity output..

You have not yet analyzed why your circuit with just the ground wire
has lighted up.
So why does it light up ?
What is energizing your coil-cores and LEDs in this circuit example ?

Did you try to shield the ground wire with alufoil and
connect it to the aluminium pan and only grounded
the aluminium foil and the ground wire at the ground bus
bar, so the 1 Meter long ground wire could not work as an antenna ?

I have tried the exact circuit with the ground wire and at my place
nothing lights up...

And user Amigo also said, that his circuit runs at around 2 Mhz and
not higher and I also did not see any resonance higher than 2 Mhz.

So it seems your breadboard with the 2 alubackplanes and all the
stray capacitances from it seems to have a major
So as long as you all use these special breadboards,
it will be hard to translate this circuit into a real PCB used circuit.

Also we have to understand the involved effects to scale this thing up,
but as long as your 6 replication people hide and don?t post their results,
how should we learn from them ?

I was today again at www.segor.de
and bought new transistors and litz wire, cores  and other parts.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 20, 2007, 01:31:18 AM
It should be obvious by now to most, that this circuit is another form of teslas radiant energy circuits. It was noted by tesla at many points that maximum efficiency power is noted when the dielectric in the condenser is stressed to near breaking point. Therefore, it may be more dangerous, but it is also much more efficient.

I would just like to touch up on this because I believe it is important to put things into a different perspective than what's commonly thought of. I am not focusing on armagdn03 specifically with this post, it's written to everyone.

Tesla's World at the turn of the 19th and into the early 20th century was nothing like our World. His World had almost insignificant amount of RF pollution so he could've detected, if he wanted, his emissions on the other side of the planet without much effort.
On the other hand, our World is so much polluted with RF that almost any part of the spectrum up to the GHz and beyond is saturated with some kind of artificial radio emissions. Because of that what we are doing and trying to achieve makes it that much harder.

Next, Tesla used to build his own capacitors (and I'll repeat: Tesla used to build his capacitors). Sure, people have replicated some of Teslas's patents and experiments but they fail to realize the level of mastery Tesla had when it comes to building components specifically for the circuit at hand. Each component Tesla made was most likely fine tuned for that exact application and his own specification with all the factors accounted for.
If any one of you believes they can go to a store (or order online) and buy a cap and think they can get away with it, you've got something else coming at you.

Components Tesla used are nothing like the components we have today. Heck, the air he was breathing is nothing like the air we have today, who knows what kind of plasma discharge quality you get when the Oxygen concentration is higher in the air or there are less pollutants and what not.

Furthermore, I do not know if any of you read other papers and writings on radiant energy and such, but from my (limited) understanding I can gather that what everyone is seeking is NOT in the normal RF field. The waves we are seeking to utilize are scalar/longitudinal not transverse. Thus any kind of equipment and measurement being done in the transverse world can be tossed out the window.

Debate over normal RF are pointless as well because any circuits dealing with transverse waves are not part of our quest for they are based on the closed loop world and as such will not produce "free" energy or over-unity effects. We should focus on ways of producing, detecting, measuring and collecting scalar waves, and tapping into the radiant energy field through collapsing magnetic fields (or other principles if you know of, but the collapsing magnetic field has been documented by other researchers already).

What I'm trying to say here is unless someone can come up to me and show me a circuit that detects and measures radiant energy (who knows maybe measuring scalar waves actually does this?!?) anything that's being done on any level is really just a "novelty" without it.

Trying to prove RE, OU etc is plain silly using conventional formulas because these equations look nice but really add up to nothing useful. They were invented to serve a purpose at one time but now it is time for a totally new mathematics (and physics) and unfortunately we do not have it (Tesla DID say he had the math but no one has ever seen it and I can only conclude that our "Overlords" have gotten to it before we could).

Thank you.

/me steps down from the soap box
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 20, 2007, 01:48:29 AM
@Amigos - Well stated!  ;)
Think of radiant energy as you would a black hole. If it exists, you may not be able to observe it directly. You "may" only observe it's presence by the effect it has on the "observable".

I have stated many times in this forum, that I do not believe in O/U. However, there is a distinction between tapping an energy source that may exist, like a yacht tapping the wind, and the notion of getting something "from" nothing (O/U).

The greatest challenge in these experiments is to "see" something "observable", which may be attributable to something unobservable, and more importantly, currently unaccountable!
LOL ,,,,,   you know, like the results of politics  LOL  :D  :D

Anyway Amigos, you have my knod of agreement for your last post....well stated.
Cheers from the Toad who Hops....KneeDeep  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 20, 2007, 02:56:48 AM
I figured to follow up on my yesterday's post about aluminium plates and such. They say picture is worth a thousand words, so...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 20, 2007, 03:34:01 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 20, 2007, 03:40:26 AM
I figured to follow up on my yesterday's post about aluminium plates and such. They say picture is worth a thousand words, so...
Yep! In this case, I'd say so..........KneeDeep
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 20, 2007, 04:00:23 AM
@Amigo,
well done,
but how much power is gointo into the circuit ?
What is the input power without the LEDs and with the LEDs ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 20, 2007, 04:03:00 AM
Unfortunately I must report that the effects present on the aluminium backed board are not there on plain vanilla one.

The neon bulb does not light on the white vanilla board and so there are no HV effects or anything of that kind. That circuit seems to operate on ~2.06MHz here, while the one with the aluminium board half of that frequency (~1.09MHz).

Not sure what to think of it now, though I am not interested in measuring any kind of gains or losses because of these occurrences and because of what I wrote above in my previous post (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg60079.html#msg60079).

I only have one core at the moment (still waiting for the shipment to arrive) so doing side-by-side testing is impossible.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 20, 2007, 04:11:11 AM
Unfortunately I must report that the effects present on the aluminium backed board are not there on plain vanilla one.

Many thanks for confirming this.
So we know now, that we really need an alu backplate for the real effects
to happen.
No wonder I did not get the same effects as Dr.Stiffler.

As I said, the stray capacitance couplings plays a major role at these
frequencies in these circuits.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 20, 2007, 04:20:35 AM
I'm not sure why is everyone obsessing with measuring things and calculating numbers. My stance is clear, as in my previous post (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg60079.html#msg60079), and only hoptoad seems to understand what I'm saying.

@EMdevices
This is the "Thomas" oscillator from Dr.Stiffler's page, I have just re-created it in effort to confirm or dispute the claim.

@hartiberlin
I think Dr.Stiffler said so many times that people should follow his exact steps in order to re-create the effect, so I think we owe it to him to do so, at least at first. And please let's drop this power measurements stuff, you and I both know that those numbers are fictitious, the Watts are derived from the Amps and as Bedini said, I'd love to see someone actually show me what 1 Amp is. ;D

Otherwise, I do not know if this confirms anything or not. My findings are just my own and others should try to re-create this - we cannot draw any conclusions based on just one report alone, so get cracking everyone :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 20, 2007, 04:37:45 AM
Okay, maybe we should really do some battery tests, how long your 12 Volts battery will last by
powering this circuit ?
Please compare it to driving the LEDs with pure 12 Volts DC on a current limiting resistor

Surely the Thomas circuit will last longer, cause batteries seem to have more capacity at AC
or pulse draining.
Probably a chemical effect in batteries.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 20, 2007, 05:48:40 AM
I'm not sure why is everyone obsessing with measuring things and calculating numbers.
In the pursuit of scientific understanding, fortunately or unfortunately, there is a need for empirical recording and measurement.
In everyday life, this helps us to make every day choices. If I were a "petrol" head and didn't care about the cost of fuel, then comparing for example how many miles per gallon a car achieved wouldn't worry me or influence my decision to buy it, but for the rest of us budget conscious, eco-concerned types, miles per gallon is a high consideration. If I want to buy a fuel efficient car, I need some sort of empirical basis upon which to compare two or more vehicles in order to choose the correct one.

Same goes for possible lighting systems. I would want to install the system which gives me the most Lumens per watt. I wouldn't care less, as an average consumer, where all those Lumens came from, so long as I thought it was "green" and the most economical.

I hate figures and calculations, but in the end they are important. Supposing you think you have such an efficient circuit that it must be more efficient than any other method. How do you prove it. By empirical comparison.

As I've stated before, choosing what you are going to measure and compare seems to be the hard part here, and the choices may be crucial to many questions and results in these experiments.

KneeDeep.....I think all the bright lights are make making me dizzzzzy.......

Great work everyone! Cheers from the Toad who Hops :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 20, 2007, 06:08:39 AM
Unfortunately I must report that the effects present on the aluminium backed board are not there on plain vanilla one.

The neon bulb does not light on the white vanilla board and so there are no HV effects or anything of that kind. That circuit seems to operate on ~2.06MHz here, while the one with the aluminium board half of that frequency (~1.09MHz).

I noticed that all the LEDS were lit up O.K though. This could be a blessing in disguise! No HV and still all LEDS lit up?
NO HV means SAFER!
KneeDeep......Great stuff Amigo  ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 20, 2007, 08:14:21 AM
Thanks hoptoad for your explanation of why measurement is important - I was trying to figure out how to put it, and now I don't have to. :-)

As to figuring out what exactly we want to measure, I think for the moment we need to measure the amount of environmental input for a certain operator input, i.e. the amount of cold electricity/radiant energy which is converted to "useful" energy, per watt of electricity we input.

As far as I can tell, the way to do this is measuring the excess light emitted by an LED in an SEC circuit compared to what they normally would emit with the same input signal. The energy difference is the amount of radiant energy which the LEDs are converting to light. Just to be clear, by 'what they normally would emit', I am referring to their output without the radiant energy which is added by the SEC circuit. This could for example mean the output of the same LEDs, driven directly by the function generator. This experiment will only work however if the radiant energy is not converted to electricity in the SEC circuit, but is converted to light in the LEDs. If the SEC circuit converts radiant energy directly to electricity, the experiment may not show anything. As a result, if this experiment shows excess energy then it definitely exists, however if it doesn't show excess energy, that does not mean it doesn't exist.

You may have noticed that I like to stress the words "same signal". This is because you must be careful of any effects of the input signal on the efficiency of LEDs. If you want to compare a "standard" circuit to an SEC circuit, you must make sure the same signal is going through the LEDs in both, otherwise the LEDs in both circuits may have different efficiencies in converting input energy to light. This would render any actual numbers you get invalid.

While I havn't got the coils or the equipment yet and thus cannot make these measurements myself, I am working on getting hold of the needed materials, and aim to make these measurements ASAP. The important thing about these measurements is if the SEC circuit does indeed facilitate the conversion of radiant energy to light in the LEDs, these measurements will show it, and therefore give us some hard numbers.

If anybody has the know-how and the equipment, it would be great if they could try and make some of these measurements before I get around to it...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 20, 2007, 11:22:53 AM
Hi Harti, and Dr Stiffler,

I have created a preliminary (non tested) printed circuit board design for the "Thomas oscillator" version of the cold electricity circuit (marked for non commercial use.)  I would like to share this here, but  am hoping both you and Dr Stiffler review it first. (  Ron's email address is probably private)
I have created this in PCB Express (free download), so anyone could email the design and have a board made at low cost (without parts installed).
Cost could be under  \$10 each (shipping extra) if we shared a big enough order.  Anyway, just let me know where to send the data file, if you are interested. I may be able to do other versions as time permits.

DerrickA
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on November 20, 2007, 12:50:57 PM
I suggest replace LED's with 4 diode (1N4148) and capacitor for energy measurement. I use that way for measurement.
If you have battery input, easy is measure P=U*I (just measure current, voltage is from battery).
In my (HF) experiment, I measure time for charging capacitor to 50 V voltage (for safety reason). On 470 uF its discharge has good spark (don't go up with charging).
Energy in capacitor is E=0.5*C*U*U, and it is in J = W/s.
See on my web, how easy is with 3W input (car hand lamp electronics with 1 transistor), charge that capacitor without wires in 60 second, and collect around 0.5 W/s energy.
Here in my experiment is input 3W/s, and every 60 second output is 0.5 W/s. Little energy, but great spark.

I write (in some post) that 1 AAA battery can light up 50 LED for 1-2 hours, with HF converting of 1.5 V with some FET converter.

Try to measure your real output. It is important...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 20, 2007, 01:31:24 PM

I write (in some post) that 1 AAA battery can light up 50 LED for 1-2 hours, with HF converting of 1.5 V with some FET converter.

Wow, I thought the 50 or so LEDs that Dr. Stiffler showed lit up meant there was quite a bit of power involved. Sounds like any stray bit of current could power them.

Quote
Try to measure your real output. It is important...

They don't seem to be too interested in doing that. There are now 6 people who supposedly have achieved OU and not one of them has come forth with a report. And nobody has managed to take some of the output and use it as input to make the device self-sustaining.

Even if the 6 experimenters haven't been able to do that, you would think that Stiffler would, by now, have the OU down pat and would have it self-sustaining.

I would like to believe that Stiffler has found a way to create an OU device, but this thing sounds like one more OU joke, filled with true believers.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 20, 2007, 03:50:25 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 20, 2007, 05:30:25 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 20, 2007, 06:41:14 PM
I have been puzzled by this experiment since the beginning. I have a video at youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDjSMtiElgI) showing a very simple experiment that seams to replicate this "cold electricity" but I still dont have an explanation why it works.

My experiment is very different from Dr. Stiffler original design but I see the latest "Thomas Oscilator" being, IMHO, exactly the same as mine except that he has an oscilator in place and I am using a Function Generator. In my experiment I removed the ground and the circuit is NOT closed loop, in other words, is open loop so that the FG is not the source of the current lighing up the leds. I was able to light up to 80+ leds fully in a variation of this video. I also do not believe the coil is of any effect here. I could reproduce the same results using a not so coil approach with a 250 lamp wire (yes it is a coil but a much different one).

Can someone explain to me, please, why my design works? What is this electricity? The reason I ask is simply because all I am seeing is a series of more complex examples of the same simple design that I have shown on my videos. I am very surprised to see "Thomas Design" to be as simple as one oscilator and a coil which is pretty much what I have.

How can someone measure a open loop system? Is it possible that the Func.Gen is powering "really" the LEDs with one wire? I totally agree with Dr. Stiffler title for his experiments ("Amplification") because what I see is somehow this "electricity" going through one wire has been amplified by the coil to the point of lighting the leds.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 20, 2007, 07:46:30 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 20, 2007, 08:05:36 PM
I have to say I am disappointed. I had high hopes for Stiffler's circuit because it was vouched for by a clever chap on another list.

But as far as I can see, this is just a way to use RF to light up diodes. Nobody has come up with the slightest evidence that there is more output from the circuit than there is input.

Stiffler would be the best one to do that, but all he does is tell people to toe the line or they will be 'out of the loop'. He claims 6 other people have replicated the circuit and have OU.  No evidence. Nothing from any of the 6, nothing from Stiffler.

Very disappointing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: c0mster on November 20, 2007, 08:38:05 PM
Also a function generator produces ac unless it has a DC offset so that it hits only + but a coil still has ac when it's hit with dc (electron interaction in substrate and magnetic field theory).

If you take 1 wire and plug it into a wall socket on one side of the plug and you are touching the earth you get shocked (DON?T TRY THIS).

Look at some power poles and you will see a ground rod attached to one of the lines.  1 wire power transmission is not uncommon. Tesla showed this, his work is used in many HV appliances. Today we are bombarded by mans RF and other radiating sources. Hence standing under High Tension Power lines with 2 florescent bulbs in ones hands. The secret to finding any new source or undetected source of energy is to insure you remove all what we have now back to before the 1900?s.

Once it is proven that you have removed all the dirt can you then get true clean measurements. If you used a satellite dish to listen to mars RF waves you would have to remove all other frequencies that are know and try to determine if what you hear is mars. A good understanding of the atom, electron and proton along with the complex relation between semi conductors, conductors and electron activity in said conductors is a start. Proving it by focusing on that theory and testing, one gains the understanding of much. If knowledge could be downloaded to ones brain without the daunting task of research, reading and experimentation we then would truly be on a higher plain of knowledge for all. There is always disappointment before success.

C
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 20, 2007, 08:48:30 PM
@EMdevices,

thank you for the reply. Can you send me a title for a good book on "RF" as you mention? I want to understand how RF can light up LEDs.

So, if RF can do this my question still stands (sorry for my ignorance), how this LEDs light up?, where is the energy coming from? And how is this different from the "Thomas oscilator"?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 20, 2007, 11:14:55 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 20, 2007, 11:39:17 PM
@EMdevices,
thank you my friend. I just purchased the one you mention. I will read and learn. Thank you for the explanation too. It seams so simples as you explained.

Does it means that the FG is "feeding" the LEDs with energy coming from itself? or it is a property of frequencies and coils? Sorry for my ignorance on the subject. It is that it seams logical for me that either the FG is giving some of its energy to the LEDs or it is coming from some place else.

Is it possible to measure this energy coming from the FG into the LEDs so that one can account for how much can I extract from it? It is very confusing to see a circut without closing the loop causing some energy to be used up without really coming from somewhere, unless one lead from the FG can give energy to the LEDs as in the video without closing the loop and therefore no current. But that's where I get confused how that is possible. (I have lots to read and learn).

If RF in classical Electrical Engineering can explain this phenomena I will be satisfied and I will not ask again.  Please, someone that understand this phenomena please just state here if this is the case.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 21, 2007, 12:28:18 AM
Hi Fausto,
the explanation is pretty simple.
You have a capacitor on your breadboard as you have this pF supply voltage
line, where you sticked your LEDs into.
These 2 connection rows have maybe 50 pF capacitance.
Now the cables from your RF generator to this one wire connection just
have inductance, let?s say 50 nH,so you see you are charging up the
50 pF cap via this wire to a positive voltage with every positive sine wave of your
RF output. Then when the treshold voltage of around 1.7 to 2.5  Volts is reached
the 50 pF cap is discharged via the LEDs.
The ground wire of the RF generator is coupled also via a stray cap to the ground
lineof your breadboard ( cathode of LEDs), so at these frequencies all currents
flow via stray capacitances and also the LC resonance frequency of the wire inductance and
stray capacitances play an important role...
This way you can get a higher voltage at the cap as the RF output and this will
energize the LEDs and discharge the 50 pF cap...
Pretty easy to explain, but hard to control as every cm of wire counts and the placement
of wires and stray capacitances will vary the resonance frequency.

This is why I said, that it willbe hard to design a PCB board without the alu backplate
to have the same high output.

I just got myself 2 aluplates and I will try this now toput beneath my breadboard.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 21, 2007, 12:52:28 AM
Hmm,
did Dr. Stiffler delete his 2 domains ?

Now all what is coming up is:
mydiscountdomains.com

if I call
www.stifflerscientific.com
or
www.drstiffler.com

So what is going on ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 12:55:35 AM
@hartbiberlin,

thanks Stefan, so far your explanation seams plausible but one questions is still bogging me (I am not debating anything jsut trying to understand), you explained all the caps and inductance and all that but it seams that you are understanding my design as if the two wires from my RF Gen are connected to the LEDS but they are not.

Quote
The ground wire of the RF generator is coupled also via a stray cap to the ground

The ground wire of the RF generator is NOT connected to anything. Do you see that in my video? THAT's where I am confused. Where is the current of the discharge and charge is going? from where and to where?

I am asking all this questions because I see people saying "RF" explain all that but unfortunately I dont see the same way. IS RF capable of generating a voltage and current in a open circuit like the one I show on the video? if it is for good just let me know, please.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on November 21, 2007, 01:07:33 AM
Oh dear some of you have really pi\$\$ed him off now as he has deleted his domains AND deleted the youtube vids!  Either he has discovered something amazing that he wants to keep to himself

OR

MIB have told him to bugger off.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 21, 2007, 01:22:22 AM

The ground wire of the RF generator is NOT connected to anything. Do you see that in my video? THAT's where I am confused. Where is the current of the discharge and charge is going? from where and to where?

Probably only in the 1 to 10 pF range, but there is definately a capacitance there.
Also if you touch the ground cathode line of your diodes you increase
this stray cap with your body to a much higher value versus the case of your
function generator = ground of the function generator.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 21, 2007, 01:29:19 AM
Oh dear some of you have really pi\$\$ed him off now as he has deleted his domains AND deleted the youtube vids!  Either he has discovered something amazing that he wants to keep to himself

OR

MIB have told him to bugger off.

Hmm, if he really did it himself, then I don?t understand this...
Why is he so angered by it ?
We are just doing scientific research into this thing
and if it would turn out, that we could not get more out of it,
than putting in, well then we will move to the next
better circuit...
Well, he also had other very promosing technologies on his
website, so I don?t understand this...

Maybe he was bought off by somebody ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 21, 2007, 01:29:20 AM
The domains are not deleted - they do not expire until 2011. Unless he sells them to someone else they still belong to him. It appears he has deleted his websites and all the traffic is now sent to his registrar's page...

I hope the rest of you have mirrored the data and the videos in time. :P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on November 21, 2007, 01:37:39 AM
I hope the rest of you have mirrored the data and the videos in time. :P

I saved some images and text, to pass on to a friend, but not all of it.  I'm sure Hartiberlin saved it.  That dudes got a short temper.. :-\
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 01:56:08 AM
Ta-da!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 02:03:49 AM
I was just on his site this morning. I was just beginning to write a two page reply on this but thought I had better shut up.
But one thing I can not under stand why he was so interested in having others duplicate his work. Since he was directing every move to make and criticized any questions or comments. Why did he not just not make 50 or so himself. Then try to convince to scientific comunity not a hand full of experimenters.

Well I can go on and on and use up all my 12000 KB posting space.
Maybe as mentioned in earlier posts he was planing on selling evaluation units\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$\$
Since he was trying his hardest to confuse and make all but the most experienced experimenter succeed.

He will show up some where most likely with a unit to sell or something. Or at least he will start a new and better site and will announce it maybe even charge to access it.

His site was OK but what bothered me was the first thing you saw on his page was an ear bug and mold. If your site is concentrating on electronics at least have a schematic or a transistor or lightning bolts or something where the ear bug was. Got to go I hear a buzzing in my ear.

By the way I will tell you how you can run a car on water with my secret ingredient absolutely "FREE" for \$25.00 shipping. Order within 5 weeks and will included two copies at no extra charge.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on November 21, 2007, 02:08:23 AM
Anyway i haven't been around much lately although i stop by sometimes to catch up on the gossip. I was hoping to have the resources to do this myself but this Dr Stifler experiments are closely coupled to the TPU. I will spill the beans on some of my ideas i really do hope some of you will look into this closely.

The heart of the TPU is the ferrite core i suspected this for many weeks now. As stated in my other posts the frequency of operation is up around the 1 to 2 megs range depending on the ferrite ring and windings. However this is the catalyst and is common on most if not all the TPUs. You will notice from the Stifler experiments that the power of the LED's is brightest at a reasonce frequency and the performace is directly related to the Q of the coil.  One of the fundamental breakthroughs i see is realizing that the coil is self oscillating and as SM said the entire oscialltion is directly proportional to the TPU size. These small experiments are definntiyl heading the right way i am sure but you can increase the Q of the coil but an old trick which SM has hinted at before by using super regen radio and self quenching circuit. This is dead easy to do basically another resistor and cap on the emiiter which has RC =t 5kHz. Qunching allows the oscillation of the 1 meg coil to expand which drives the quench to on. The 1 meg osc field collapses and the RC discharges at 5k. The effect is the coil now has a tuned gain of  about a MILLION!

You may think this odd but SM states the TPU is similar in operation to a radio and the TPU all exhibit a 5k hash which is directly as a result of using a oscillator which is quenched at 5k!!

The output will then be DC with a 5k hash component but it all starts at the ferrite core and the other coils perpetuate the feedback by passing a winding through the ferrite ring. This is how you get feedback of a TPU. Now you see that we are dealing with pure sine of the self oscillating ferrite ring which is harmonized to the larger TPU coils and the circuit had nothing to do with whacking it with square waves.  When you get this right the output should be cold electricity DC with the 5k hash of the quenching circuit which explains why the circuit is so damn small and simple it can be shrunk inside of a tiny TPU. Further more to expanding this idea i believe the TPU is based upon a tube layout comprising of three parts thus you MUST have 3 coils and a ferrite ring.

In essence its an amplifier of positive feedback. One coil of the TPU is the cathode the next coil is the anode and the ferrite ring is the grid which is oscillating is our third coil which may or may not be connected to a grid coil but highly likely it was on the large TPU's. Now we apply a small DC voltage between the cathode coil and the Anode. Nothing much happens till our grid coil which is running from the ferrite ring oscillator is producing the 1 meg gate signal quenched at 5k sits on the middle coil but its closer to the cathode just like a tube amplifier. The electrons passing between our cathode towards the anode are now excited by the grid control and race towards the anode. Yes this does work without a heater when in resonance! Because the ferrite core has been amplified by a MIO the grid is supplying cold electrons which are now stacking up on  our anode coil. This is why the large TPU is quite a high beast as it has 3 coils with grid and cathode coil near the base and the further we can get the anode as a ratio between the grid to cathode to anode ratio the better it will amplify.

We simply take a winding and pass it from the anode coil back through the ferrite ring which is our grid to give us positive feedback! The circuit is now explosive because the cold energy is going between the cathode coil to anode and is modulated by the grid signal...our ferrite. Because the ferrite is not part of the feedback loop par se then it does not have to support the real power generated between the coils which means the grid oscillator should run on 5 mA and the power output is whatever the coils will support without burning up.

i do hope something comes of this soon. GL

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 21, 2007, 02:36:35 AM
I just talked to a friend of mine that works for MIB.  He said, and I quote, "There is no Dr. Stiffler and there never was a Dr. Stiffler.  I just said....."ok."

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 02:36:49 AM

MIB have told him to bugger off.

Maybe he was bought off by somebody ?

An investor of any large some of money will not invest unless there is very positive proof of getting a return. It was people like EMdevices and me that were telling what he really had that ran him away. The first thing a scam artist will do when exposed is run for the hills. He was criticizing any and every effort tried to check for over unity saying that it will not work.  Which brings up the question if you can not test by normal means then how can he claim OU. Since there is no way to test according to him.
As EMdevices and myself have shown nothing new no mystery.
As far as MIB I am sure the government with there real scientists looking at what he was doing were not impressed.
Again run your car using water with my secret ingredient absolutely FREE for \$25.00 shipping. No scam!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: c0mster on November 21, 2007, 02:53:33 AM
::)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on November 21, 2007, 02:55:59 AM
I think you ruined it. We only had to wait for Dr Stifler Youtube vid number 10 next week to see 100 LEDS running all by themselves with no cables or batteries attached anywhere:)

Now we are back to the dark ages.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 03:08:06 AM
I think you ruined it. We only had to wait for Dr Stifler Youtube vid number 10 next week to see 100 LEDS running all by themselves with no cables or batteries attached anywhere:)

Now we are back to the dark ages.
Hum-mm that would be great if he could. But I think I will coin a new scientific phrase I will call it the "Christmas Tree Effect" this effect is when one bulb blows they all go out. So you have to check 100 LEDs to find the bad one. I will publish my formulas and sell papers on it. I think 5 LED's are plenty.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 21, 2007, 03:08:09 AM
Ta-da!
Good on ya Zaydana -  ;)  I had backed up some of the info over the last 3-4 weeks, but not all of it.
Glad some-one was on the ball!
KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 03:11:49 AM
While i'm as skeptical as the next guy, I still would really like to do the measurements on this system. With Murphy's law, if you dismiss a device and don't measure it because the guy who is promoting it doesn't seem that legit, you're going to end up missing the one that works.

I posted a backup of the website I made from less than 24 hours before he took it down in my last post, so at least we've got it for future reference.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: vidbid on November 21, 2007, 03:13:55 AM
Yep. He removed every one of his videos off of YouTube. But he has already let the cold-electricity genie out of the bottle. He ought to put all of his videos on a DVD and sell copies for \$29.95 with a schematic and parts list for his cold-electricity device. I might even buy one his DVDs if it was ever created and put on the market.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 03:33:41 AM
oh my go.. You guys really make me very happy. Just reading sometimes is just amazing!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Shanjaq on November 21, 2007, 03:44:30 AM
Ya i noticed that today...   Pardon me while I storm off yelling potent obscenities that make the paint curl off the walls....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 03:49:36 AM
btw, could anyone invalidate his maths and claims via real experimentation and rigorous test?

I see a punch of guys complaining but no work of their own, good or bad. A few guys on the right track such as Stefan, Amigo, me and some other, but the noisest of all are just thin air.  :P

Fausto.

ps: an old saying: show me your work and I will know who you are.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 03:56:12 AM
btw, could anyone invalidate his maths and claims via real experimentation and rigorous test?

I see a punch of guys complaining but no work of their own, good or bad. A few guys on the right track such as Stefan, Amigo, me and some other, but the noisest of all are just thin air.  :P

Fausto.

ps: an old saying: show me your work and I will know who you are.
Maybe some could but Stiffler said you can no test for cold electricity using conventional means. I seen on his site oscilloscopes, volt metres, etc.I seen no home made special testing devices.  Where was he getting his numbers from and how?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 04:24:40 AM
since no one will answer my questions above, I will:
Quote
N. Tesla wrote that radio receiver take power from either but not from
radio station transmitter. The consumption power of transmitter is not
increasing when many receivers are in operate. This is the way for creation
of information in space-time that can be used for transformation it in power.
This is from:
Alexander V. Frolov   email: alex@frolov.spb.su
P. O. Box 37,  St.-Petersburg,  193024,  Russia

I still think RF will NOT produce the power necessary to run the LEDs. RF is only the EFFECT of it. It is somehow allowing the energy to come from some place else. RF will "amplify" the space-time deformation and allow the EFFECT (current and potential) to manifest in the little closed loop circuit of the LEDs so that they will be excited to the point of emitting light.

In my experiment when I connected the Func.Gen to an inverter connected to a battery, it was using so much X power but when the LEDs were lit (because of th correct frequency being set) the power usage went "DOWN" not up. Anyone can reproduce this. Dr. Stiffler is still right in his claim of "amplification".

I think we can create something that will "amplify" this EFFECT of the RF over any coil of "matter" that has intricic connection with ZPE (zero-point-energy or vaccum) such as an inductor. But if you only invest time and brain power.

Fausto.

Anyone to refute this?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 04:31:42 AM
@DrZLowe7,
you right. I have heard Bedini saying the samething before but he also said that those are the tools that we have. They don't show the full story but effects of it. An example is when he (Bedini) talks about the "pulses" or radiant pulses that on the osciloscope is shown as spikes of 300v or more but they manifest theirselfs as real energy inside an lead-acid battery. He even goes to say that those pulses or spikes as synonymous to "radiant spikes".

We can not see air, but we can measure its effects on things. Until someone come up with a better tool.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 21, 2007, 04:41:06 AM
I'm sorry if this is going to sound scolding but I'm itching to write it...

The more I read here the more I realize that I should go look elsewhere for ideas and people willing to work on alternative energy. Many of you have exhibited orthodox signs of brainwashing by the establishment and just plain confined thinking inside the box. You keep obsessing about numbers, formulas, measurements, miliwatts and miliamps; while I keep writing how that's totally unimportant as is a distraction from where we are supposed to go, but alas...

A side story, did any one of you majored in math? I knew math well years ago, thankfully I have forgotten most of it, but what had stuck in my head is that you can "massage" anything into a proof (or disproof), depending on your goal. I remember one instance when at the end of a solution you had 1=2, which was a very clever trick we used to pass on in the early grammar school, and yet it was totally valid when looked from a certain point of view.

But let me read between my own lines: no amount of proof you want, expect, demand, require, hope for, etc, will be enough when it comes to subjects outside of orthodox scientific world. Someone will always say "Yes, it lights 100 LEDs, but can it light 200?". That's just how pathetic human beings are, partially because of their own fault, partially because of the parents and the society who have brought everyone up on the premise of scarcity and separation from everything that surrounds us. We constantly have to compete with each other because everything is in shortage. STOP!

For God's sake go read Bucky Fuller and his "ravings" about abundance, then come back with a fresh perspective on the World, and perhaps alternative energy in general.

I'll refer again to my previous post (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg60079.html#msg60079) in case you have missed it, just so you know where I'm coming from/leading to. This talk about aluminium plates and RF engineering is just a clever ploy to keep us thinking in circles (a closed loop, hah). If you are unwilling to peek outside the box and if you are constantly going to loop back into what the orthodox science expects you to do, then please leave, but don't obstruct those few people who might think differently.

The search for alternative energy solution has nothing to do with measurements and numbers and everything to do with dreams and imagination. If you do not dare to dream then your place is elsewhere. If you are going to be the lackey to the orthodox scientific community then you are only serving a troll function in any alternative forum, for their (scholars of orthodox science) goal is to maintain the status quo, why else do you think they are called "orthodox".

Need I mention an example of mere 100 years ago when the Wright brothers officially re-discovered flight, probably being the laughing stock of the whole county for claiming a man can fly, prior to their maiden flight. They had a vision they followed through against those who had asked them if they've done their math on the aerodynamics (which did not even exist then, pun intended) disbelieving and downplaying their dream on every step.

I have just realized I'm rambling, it's late and I'm tired, so I'll cut it down else I feel could write volumes. If there's anything of importance that everyone here should read about alternative energy, in my opinion, by far and wide are Tesla's writings (and of those who studied them). He had done all the work for us 100 years ago, granted he did not spell it all out so there's some tinkering to be done on our own, but otherwise it is all there, scattered in his life's work.

Why is it so difficult to accept things from a century ago, treating them as outlandish, while embracing today's BS theories about quantum this and entanglement that as if they are axioms (in truth they are just distractions meant to suck the money out of people and produce no tangible and useful results, and yet people accept them as if they are law written in stone)?

No sky is too high and no dream is too silly, because mind has no boundaries. So set your mind free...please!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 21, 2007, 04:53:50 AM
I'm sorry if this is going to sound scolding but I'm itching to write it...

The more I read here the more I realize that I should go look elsewhere for ideas and people willing to work on alternative energy. Many of you have exhibited orthodox signs of brainwashing by the establishment and just plain confined thinking inside the box. You keep obsessing about numbers, formulas, measurements, miliwatts and miliamps; while I keep writing how that's totally unimportant as is a distraction from where we are supposed to go, but alas...

A side story, did any one of you majored in math? I knew math well years ago, thankfully I have forgotten most of it, but what had stuck in my head is that you can "massage" anything into a proof (or disproof), depending on your goal. I remember one instance when at the end of a solution you had 1=2, which was a very clever trick we used to pass on in the early grammar school, and yet it was totally valid when looked from a certain point of view.

But let me read between my own lines: no amount of proof you want, expect, demand, require, hope for, etc, will be enough when it comes to subjects outside of orthodox scientific world. Someone will always say "Yes, it lights 100 LEDs, but can it light 200?". That's just how pathetic human beings are, partially because of their own fault, partially because of the parents and the society who have brought everyone up on the premise of scarcity and separation from everything that surrounds us. We constantly have to compete with each other because everything is in shortage. STOP!

For God's sake go read Bucky Fuller and his "ravings" about abundance, then come back with a fresh perspective on the World, and perhaps alternative energy in general.

I'll refer again to my previous post (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg60079.html#msg60079) in case you have missed it, just so you know where I'm coming from/leading to. This talk about aluminium plates and RF engineering is just a clever ploy to keep us thinking in circles (a closed loop, hah). If you are unwilling to peek outside the box and if you are constantly going to loop back into what the orthodox science expects you to do, then please leave, but don't obstruct those few people who might think differently.

The search for alternative energy solution has nothing to do with measurements and numbers and everything to do with dreams and imagination. If you do not dare to dream then your place is elsewhere. If you are going to be the lackey to the orthodox scientific community then you are only serving a troll function in any alternative forum, for their (scholars of orthodox science) goal is to maintain the status quo, why else do you think they are called "orthodox".

Need I mention an example of mere 100 years ago when the Wright brothers officially re-discovered flight, probably being the laughing stock of the whole county for claiming a man can fly, prior to their maiden flight. They had a vision they followed through against those who had asked them if they've done their math on the aerodynamics (which did not even exist then, pun intended) disbelieving and downplaying their dream on every step.

I have just realized I'm rambling, it's late and I'm tired, so I'll cut it down else I feel could write volumes. If there's anything of importance that everyone here should read about alternative energy, in my opinion, by far and wide are Tesla's writings (and of those who studied them). He had done all the work for us 100 years ago, granted he did not spell it all out so there's some tinkering to be done on our own, but otherwise it is all there, scattered in his life's work.

Why is it so difficult to accept things from a century ago, treating them as outlandish, while embracing today's BS theories about quantum this and entanglement that as if they are axioms (in truth they are just distractions meant to suck the money out of people and produce no tangible and useful results, and yet people accept them as if they are law written in stone)?

No sky is too high and no dream is too silly, because mind has no boundaries. So set your mind free...please!

I see .. so you are advocating becoming more ignorant to make more progress ... fascinating !!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Shanjaq on November 21, 2007, 04:55:33 AM
Thank you Amigo, that just made my dayÃ‚Â  :]

illegitimi non carborundum!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 05:00:28 AM
since no one will answer my questions above, I will:
Quote
N. Tesla wrote that radio receiver take power from either but not from
radio station transmitter. The consumption power of transmitter is not
increasing when many receivers are in operate. This is the way for creation
of information in space-time that can be used for transformation it in power.
This is from:
Alexander V. Frolov   email: alex@frolov.spb.su
P. O. Box 37,  St.-Petersburg,  193024,  Russia

I still think RF will NOT produce the power necessary to run the LEDs. RF is only the EFFECT of it. It is somehow allowing the energy to come from some place else. RF will "amplify" the space-time deformation and allow the EFFECT (current and potential) to manifest in the little closed loop circuit of the LEDs so that they will be excited to the point of emitting light.

In my experiment when I connected the Func.Gen to an inverter connected to a battery, it was using so much X power but when the LEDs were lit (because of th correct frequency being set) the power usage went "DOWN" not up. Anyone can reproduce this. Dr. Stiffler is still right in his claim of "amplification".

I think we can create something that will "amplify" this EFFECT of the RF over any coil of "matter" that has intricic connection with ZPE (zero-point-energy or vaccum) such as an inductor. But if you only invest time and brain power.

Fausto.

Anyone to refute this?

Say what??? Space-Time. EEK
I stated earlier every 20 years or so things come back into fashion but this one goes way back.
When I was young about 13 years I was reading about electromagnetic effects. It was a belief at the time the book I was reading that there existed an "Ether" this was matter but not like normal matter it was not made of atoms and such and filled all the empty space between electrons and protons etc. although it was not effected much by matter an electron passing through it caused a wake. This wake was tangible and what was thought to be lines of force you see from a magnet. That made perfect sense to me. So an electron passing in a wire causes an "Ether" wake. And if reversed its flow the wake would travel in the "Ether".
However the "Ether" theory was dropped and I no longer could visualize magnetic fields. So may theories came about to explain it however the "Ether" made more sense to me.
Anyway due to new findings scientist not to admit they were wrong about the "Ether" called it "Dark Matter". It is very similar to the old "Ether" only has weight. So now it is "Dark Matter".
Here is simple fact when his coil peeked the resistance of the coil mathematically should be infinite. But since no coil is perfect your current will drop at resonance. This has nothing to do "Seacetime" the 5th dimension or any thing but resonance.
You need to know more about electronics and less about "Space Time" and over analizing something.
Buy the way was ZPM coined before or after the Sci-FY series "Stargate".
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 05:44:55 AM
I'm sorry if this is going to sound scolding but I'm itching to write it...

The more I read here the more I realize that I should go look elsewhere for ideas and people willing to work on alternative energy. Many of you have exhibited orthodox signs of brainwashing by the establishment and just plain confined thinking inside the box. You keep obsessing about numbers, formulas, measurements, miliwatts and miliamps; while I keep writing how that's totally unimportant as is a distraction from where we are supposed to go, but alas...

A side story, did any one of you majored in math? I knew math well years ago, thankfully I have forgotten most of it, but what had stuck in my head is that you can "massage" anything into a proof (or disproof), depending on your goal. I remember one instance when at the end of a solution you had 1=2, which was a very clever trick we used to pass on in the early grammar school, and yet it was totally valid when looked from a certain point of view.

I know you forgot your math. But we are not using complaced algebra here. "Watts in" - "Watts out" . Is "Watts out" positive or negative.
We are not brain washed we are open to advancement. The Wright Brothers had to prove flight and did just claiming it. The devices you are making require Math as the Wright Brother needed air. As your claims can not fly without math no more than Wright Brothers could prove flight with out air.
I am not telling you not to explore just find ways to measure and prove. And quit saying math in this instance is of no value.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 06:24:59 AM
Amigo:
I can understand how you would be agitated at people seemingly not thinking outside of the box. I'm a software engineer with a few ideas of my own which have been frequently called "impossible" purely because they are unconventional. And thats not the only area people tell me I can't do something purely because nobody else has ever thought of it.

However, if i'm not mistaken, what we are searching for is a way to produce power seemingly out of thin air. Some people may dispute the wording of that, but to be blunt about it, thats what we want. We want a box we can plug our devices into, and they'll run. Unless I'm mistaken, that is the reason most of us area here. We want one of those boxes.

So, when somebody claims they've built an OU machine, the first thing they want to know is if it could possibly used to build that black box. This is why so many people are asking for numbers - if we have a single number which proves to us beyond all doubt that this device has a COP > 1, then what does at matter what other people think, orthodox or not? We have our black box, and we're happy at that.

While obviously dreams and imagination are a huge part of the search for alternative energy, things still need to be grounded in reality. We'll never find an alternative energy source if we can't think outside the box, as you say. But we'll never find one either if we can't prove that what we have found will provide that energy. There is plenty of imagination amoungst the people in this thread, but now we have something, we need to test it, and see if it provides what we are looking for. If it does (which many people seem to believe), then there'll be plenty of time for more dreams and imagination afterwards, but if it doesn't, theres no point continuing to waste time on it. Tesla obviously had a brilliant imagination, and huge dreams. However, he wasn't averse to numbers. Indeed, without numbers, he never would have stood a chance.

I guess if you can build a device which powers itself, that would be ample proof, and we would stop asking for numbers. But if every time we heard about a claimed OU device we didn't stop working on it until we built a self-powering setup, most of us wouldn't have even got around to looking at this claim. While the numbers won't prove anything about the nature of cold electricity, they can disprove the RF hypothesis, and give us continued reason to look for the principles of operation of this circuit.

In short, we want to disprove their RF hypothesis with their own numbers, so that we can keep dreaming.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 06:40:13 AM
and now the word is "resonance". So magical so simple so explainable and yet meaningless.

Can someone please, explain what resonance really is? I hear this as an explanation for the phenomena and the first answer was RF and now is resonance. Please. Explain it like my 1 year old daugther could understand.

It means nothing this word as some are using so it is amps here and amps there. As Bedini said: What is an current?

Because mathematically things makes some sence when impedance and capacitance gets into synch does not explain anything at all. Thats the problem which I agree with amigo. People are just repeating books but no brains, no logic, no real understanding.

So again, how come the LEDs are lighting up with RF and now resonance? How could Dr. Stifller "amplify" this simple stupid thing called "resonance"?

Before was the: light is a wave and now is a particle (which particle sounds more convincing) but waves does not explain anything, does it? What is it?

Until we understand, like amigo said, outside the box, none of you guys will ever get anywhere.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 21, 2007, 06:50:49 AM
Resonance is the exchange of energy that happens between two bodies of the same frequency or harmonics of that frequency.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 07:05:37 AM
@zaydana
You are correct. Look outside , inside and under the box. The Armstrong oscillator "Thomson circuit" was claimed by Stiffler to be well over overunity buy at least 2 times. This is a very simple circuit and if Stiffler was correct in his clams this simple device should be enough to work with. I have seen Stiffler show or make around 4 different types of oscillator circuits to produce the high voltage and high frequencies for his devices. If this simple one produces 2X+ overunity work on and explore it. If you can not prove OU with it try building something more elaborate. Say one of his 4X OU circuits. I am not saying stop.
My only thing with math is Stiffler clams overunity at the same time saying it can not be measured so how can he claim OU. He must be getting numbers somewhere.Or making assumptions which is not good science.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 07:40:41 AM
and now the word is "resonance". So magical so simple so explainable and yet meaningless.

Can someone please, explain what resonance really is? I hear this as an explanation for the phenomena and the first answer was RF and now is resonance. Please. Explain it like my 1 year old daugther could understand.

Fausto.
If you apply a current to a wire or coil a magnetic field will build up then if you break the current an opposite field will build up and collapse and build up then collapse again each time in a diffrent direction with less energy at a rate dependant on inductance. For every action there is a like and oppsitate reaction so say your daughter is an electron on a swing when you give a push it will swing back and fourth. This back and fourth movement is the resonate frequency of the swing.  But at resonance once you push the swing at the precise moment when the swing returns you push again. This will take less energy to keep the swing going than your original push. However if you step forward from your position where you were pushing say directly under the swing. When the swing returns it will most likely knock you down. Then if you stay there and keep tyring to push the swing you use very much energy and your daughter will not have a very good time. You are then out of resonance.
Now RF is like swing back and forth like the swing in polarity. So finding the precise time to push it like the swing will take less energy and enhance it and keep it going with little energy. And any RF not in unison is like you in the middle of the swing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 07:50:57 AM
s
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 21, 2007, 08:14:18 AM
They seek him high, they seek him low, where in the world did Dr Stiffler go ?

rustle rustle . .. scurry scurry ... nope .. no Stifflers here ... hmmmm
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 08:34:10 AM
They seek him high, they seek him low, where in the world did Dr Stiffler go ?

rustle rustle . .. scurry scurry ... nope .. no Stifflers here ... hmmmm

Rimes better if you leave the "Dr." out.
Almost resonate.
I'm getting bad I have stop that.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 21, 2007, 09:16:36 AM
On a lighter side, I think that Dr Stiffler and DrZLowe7 are one and the same people but in a Dr Jakill and Mr Hyde sort of scenario.

How else would you explain such an odd choice of core for this experiment?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 09:24:51 AM
AhuraMazda:
I'm sure Stefan would of picked up on similar IPs, etc. if that was the case.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 21, 2007, 09:53:21 AM
Regardless of Dr. Stiffler's reasons for taking down the web site and videos, I would still like to thank him for what he did share with us, as this took both time and effort.
It's not easy being a trailblazer, and many  have had their new discoveries misunderstood, mocked, ridiculed and endlessly questioned.
And just as there are plenty of people out there who would blow out your candle, just to make their own look a little brighter, there are people willing to help shield your flame.
The secret , as in football, is to ignore attempted tricks of distraction, and keep focused on the goal.
So to Dr. Stiffler, this may be a tad premature, but I would like to say thanks, and Merry Christmas!

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 21, 2007, 10:23:23 AM
Greetings:

I have been following this topic for a long time and I have to speak up.  I, like almost everyone on this forum, have hopes for "breakthrough" devices and keep an open mind for that.  Sorry to say that Dr. Stiffler follows the same thing I have seen here, time and time again.  Post something potentially wonderful....give some idea on how to replicate, and become very sensitive to any questions or criticisms of the device...then...disappear.

I have watched Stefan's videos and a few others.  These people were trying their best to replicate this device.  All they got was..."you don't have the right core, you are altering the experiment.." etc.  Then they get the "right" core and now it's "you missinterrperted my schematic, try again."  Then it's.."I'm out of here."

Think about this.  If Stefan, or most anyone else on here (including me) had something they thought was great but wanted to have replicated to be sure.  We would not release information on a "strip tease" basis.  We would welcome ANY question that might help someone to replicate, not get pissed at them.  Over in the Earth Battery's topic I posted a video of my experiment and welcomed anyone to replicate it.  If they have trouble, I will try to help.  It is not as complicated as this topic I will admit but, more the reason to be even more helpful if you want it to be replicated.  Face it, a Great Idea meant to be open source should be provided such that anyone can replicate it.  But wait, 6 people did but, we never heard from them.  Dr. Stiffler may be a genius, I am not making any judgment on that as this is not my field but, if it were me, I would have made sure that ALL of the serious replicators had what they needed as far as info, to do the job.  My 2.5 cents worth.  Guessing at items missing on the schematic, the type of core, as well as other components is NOT the way to go as far as I am concerned.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 21, 2007, 10:26:24 AM
Amigo:

I can understand how you would be agitated at people seemingly not thinking outside of the box..........

However, if i'm not mistaken, what we are searching for is a way to produce power seemingly out of thin air............

So, when somebody claims they've built an OU machine, the first thing they want to know is if it could possibly used to build that black box. This is why so many people are asking for numbers - if we have a single number which proves to us beyond all doubt that this device has a COP > 1, then what does at matter what other people think, orthodox or not? We have our black box, and we're happy at that..........

Tesla obviously had a brilliant imagination, and huge dreams. However, he wasn't averse to numbers. Indeed, without numbers, he never would have stood a chance.

In short, we want to disprove their RF hypothesis with their own numbers, so that we can keep dreaming.

Agreed Zaydana

Amigo, you are right in so many ways when you got up your soapbox, but I thought you were a little bit petulent in your judgements of "orthodox" science. Tesla, the very man we all hold in high respect, was a great man who excelled in "orthodox" science, and was also luckily graced with vision, intuition and wisdom. Those are personal traits, not something easily, if ever learned.

Tesla may have "visualised" his greatests inventions through "imagination", but his imaginings were fired and tempered by his great "orthodox" scientific reasoning.

Like I said, KneeDeep....... I hate numbers and calculations, but they are essential, not just to science, but to everyone, everyday of our lives!

Amigo, you are right in saying that this obsession with "closed loops" is a distraction.

You know I'm a skeptic, because I have openly said so, on numerous occasions. What I find surprising here, in this forum, is how many "believers" seem to proffer up the most inane observances followed by some brazen statement like "all we need to do now is close the loop from the output to the input and we have a self sustaining apparatus. Only then will we prove we have O/U". or "To be O/U, a machine must be self sustaining."

Statements like these in themselves are already "Orthodox" in their attempt to proscribe what "should be" as opposed to what "may" be or "is". Such statements seem to be borne from the obvious, but they can preclude the non-obvious!

As a skeptic, I want to be proved wrong, not just told I'm wrong!  As an active skeptic, KneeDeep, I have a strong passion in proving myself wrong! And believe me, I'm wrong a lot!   :D  , just ask my wife  :D

Keep asking the Questions Amigo, please try not to judge the rest of us toads too harshly, we're only frogs, I mean human. KneeDeep

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 10:52:48 AM
While I agree that Dr. Stiffler probably should have gone about discussing his device in a rather different way, I think the thing that so many people are missing with this circuit is that just because there is less measurable electricity running through the LEDs than being input into the circuit, doesn't mean that the circuit isn't overunity. That may be how traditionally you would measure such things, but it won't necessarily work if we are dealing with something non-traditional.

What really matters is the difference between the light emitted for a certain voltage/current signal with Dr. Stiffler's circuit, and the light emitted for the same voltage/current signal without it. Until somebody measures this difference, nobody is going to know just how the circuit stacks up to Dr. Stiffler's claims. And really, it doesn't matter what he claims in regards to what can be measured and what he achieves. What does matter is if what we observe the circuit doing.

I still haven't received my coils, probably due to the fact that i'm overseas and they'll take a while to ship. However, as soon as I do receive them, I'm going to make these measurements and post my results. But may I suggest that since it seems a few people have had some pretty decent light from the "Thomas Oscillator", somebody could run this test, so we can stop yabbering on about opinions and start talking results?

If this circuit has overunity as claimed, then i'd wager the key is that the LEDs are being powered by something new which we can't measure directly. However, knowing what amount of light the LEDs should emit without the new energy source allows us to indirectly measure how much energy is coming from the new source.

@Amigo - while you sound particularly averse to numbers, i'd say you'd be the prime candidate to try and make these measurements. You seem to have gotten pretty decent results, and if you could show that the LEDs are emitting light which isn't coming from the measured current * voltage, then it would go a long way to understanding what Tesla discovered a hundred years ago.

And if it turns out there is nothing and the numbers are all what current science predicts, then what the hell. At least we tried. And theres nothing stopping us from keeping on doing so.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on November 21, 2007, 11:25:44 AM
I already explained in my earlier posts if you want to see a massive improvement then you must allow for super regen quenching to the oscillator circuit at around 5kH (akin TPU technology) as this will raise the gain of the amplifier to about a million effectively raising the Q to over 10,000. The effect should be extraordinary because this old hat technique was used over 50 years ago to boost radio sensitivity. However you can not tap into the feedback loop of the cold electricity until you add a third dimension ie a TPU stack of 3 coils as all you will see at 1D level is an apparent gain which can not be tapped or even properly measured. I believe the current first level dimension shown here recently is very real but only slight and without taking it to the third dimension it will always be disproved as hoax.

I wanted to add that an amplifier oscillator with super regen is basically a cold negative resistor when the loop load is left open. The gain is only limited by the noise which in semiconductors is quite high thus SM suggested much better performance would be seen in tubes.

Most active devices only support negative resistance over a short operating range. Therefore, as the DC operating point shifts, there comes a point at which the active device cannot provide any more negative resistance. A normal oscillator will settle just below this operating point and provide constant oscillations. A relaxation system cannot, because it will have extra components added to prevent this. When the limit operating point is reached, the active device will ?starve? and oscillations will just stop. The only option left is to discharge the circuit to its original DC conditions before starting all over again.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 21, 2007, 11:28:09 AM
What really matters is the difference between the light emitted for a certain voltage/current signal with Dr. Stiffler's circuit, and the light emitted for the same voltage/current signal without it. ..........1

If this circuit has overunity as claimed, then i'd wager the key is that the LEDs are being powered by something new which we can't measure directly. However, knowing what amount of light the LEDs should emit without the new energy source allows us to indirectly measure how much energy is coming from the new source..........2

@Amigo - while you sound particularly averse to numbers, i'd say you'd be the prime candidate to try and make these measurements. You seem to have gotten pretty decent results, and if you could show that the LEDs are emitting light which isn't coming from the measured current * voltage, then it would go a long way to understanding what Tesla discovered a hundred years ago.........3

And if it turns out there is nothing and the numbers are all what current science predicts, then what the hell. At least we tried. And theres nothing stopping us from keeping on doing so............4

Above quote slightly edited

1 KneeDeep    2 KneeDeep   3 KneeDeep    4 KneeDeep........That's 4 yep I agree's from me........KneeDeep
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 21, 2007, 12:48:34 PM
Regardless of Dr. Stiffler's reasons for taking down the web site and videos, I would still like to thank him for what he did share with us, as this took both time and effort.
It's not easy being a trailblazer, and many  have had their new discoveries misunderstood, mocked, ridiculed and endlessly questioned.
And just as there are plenty of people out there who would blow out your candle, just to make their own look a little brighter, there are people willing to help shield your flame.
The secret , as in football, is to ignore attempted tricks of distraction, and keep focused on the goal.
So to Dr. Stiffler, this may be a tad premature, but I would like to say thanks, and Merry Christmas!

Hi All,

I keep an eye on the list, Email with Dr. Stiffler each day with ideas, test, etc.  My shock and surprise to see his site down, his videos missing from Youtube, etc. this morning.

I have not Idea what is going on or his reasons for  he is his own man. I do realize that the number of "Armchair" engineers and the theories and comments would irritate anyone even if he had the hide of a rhinoceros!

I came up with the simple blocking/Armstrong Osc. that he named the "Thomas Osc."  Just seemed to be simple enough and did what was needed.  The other simple Osc. is as good I think and was designed by Ossie in AU.  I have built probably 200 versions of this device, all sorts of low pass filters to measure/detect/quantify the output.  Working with what appears to be in its simplistic form RF, is difficult to measure accurately in the 0-2 watt range.  It is one thing to build what you think is a OU device, it is another thing to PROVE it.

There is a common thread here in all the OU circuits I have seen in the last 10-15 years.....the only problem seems to be in tying the Knot.

I'm off to a Thanksgiving vacation till Sunday night here on the East Coast of the US.  I've closed the door on my 2X4 shop and am going to be a armchair engineer till then.  Good will to all and keep at it.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 21, 2007, 01:00:33 PM
Often the victim tries to defend the perpetrator of a crime ... strange I think .. but for some reason it comforts them to identify with their assailant ..

Thought for the day :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 21, 2007, 02:19:07 PM
Quote
I keep an eye on the list, Email with Dr. Stiffler each day with ideas, test, etc.  My shock and surprise to see his site down, his videos missing from Youtube, etc. this morning.
That was lucky, I saved the entire ce4 page on Monday night, so who wants a copy of the zipped up page with images (5Mb)?

@Zachary,
Parts have arrived OK - must have gone via the Antarctic.

I started the Thomas oscillator circuit last night on a small breadboard, should get it complete tonight so I will post pics.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: starcruiser on November 21, 2007, 02:25:32 PM
@Bolt,

I think your theory has merit, can you start a thread for this so we can explore this theory? maybe a few diagrams to go along with it? I think I have a visual of what you are saying but would like to explore this more. Just to say, I saw the same thing with the small torrid and was wondering if this was the oscillator and the large torrid was a air core transformer using the single wire method Stiffler was using.

Just to put my .02 in, a small experiment I performed was to wind 32ga magnet wire (about 200 turns) on a 1" PVC form and drive this with an old tube based audio signal generator (positive lead only). I also wrapped 10 turns of 18ga stranded hookup wire over this in a bifilar manner (all coils use the rh rule, all coils wound the same direction). it was noted that the 32ga coil produced a field (using frequencies in the audio spectrum), I noticed this when using a neo magnet near the coil to see if this affected operation, the magnet was actually affected, i.e. wants to orientate itself to the generated field when no actual return path was connected.

Anyhow, there is more here that requires exploration.

I found this interesting since the signal applied was basically audio (swept from about 5khz to about 200khz manually)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on November 21, 2007, 02:46:34 PM
K4ZEP:
You posted a schematic of this running many neon lights. Would you be willing to pass that one on?  I noticed it has a diode for each bulb so would like to see the schematic for what you have. Just started to get a handle on this and pow its gone.

Catch you when you get back. Happy turkey day. Still may have to work it.

thaelin
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 03:53:53 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 04:08:51 PM
EMdevices:

While you may well be right, it doesn't hurt to give measuring Dr. Stiffler's claims a shot. If such things as cold electricity/radiant energy exist, we're not going to find them by explaining every circuit where they are claimed with conventional theory. And if they don't exist, it'll only help us understand how conventional electronics work. Its a win-win situation, really.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 21, 2007, 04:11:44 PM
Here is an explanation of Dr. Stiffler's absence from a poster on the Vortex list

Apparently he is away with his family for the Thanksgiving Holiday.

As a precaution against a DoS web attack on his server, which has
happened before, he has temporarily taken down the web page and videos
until next week when he returns.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tao on November 21, 2007, 04:21:23 PM
Guys,

Here's a schematic of the simple experiment to light LEDs with one wire.

Notice the stray capacitance.

The beginner in electronics can't understand why you can conduct current with one wire, but it's because of this stray capacitance.   Ask yourself why current flows across a parallel plate capacitor, there IS NO CONTACT BETWEEN THE PLATES.  How can this happen?     It's the influence of the electric fields and the charges that accumulate and how they repell like charges and attract opposite charges.

Now that is not the whole story,  you realy need to u