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Author Topic: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler  (Read 1470545 times)

DrZLowe7

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #615 on: November 15, 2007, 01:54:49 PM »
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here. He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.
You should try to build it for yourself and then you decide whether it is OU or not or, where the extra energy comes from (if any).

AM

Its this concillatory tone that turkeys (ducks) like this depend on to perpetuate their mallicious trolling on an undeserving good willed forum such as this one. I have stayed out of this long enough, I am a reasonable person but i insist that this game of cat an mouse should come to an end.

(Dr) Stiffler please put up or shut up. Your condescending tone towards all descenters of your game has gone on too long and is detrimental to this forum. You can not hide behind your scientific smoke screen forever so better to come out now before you besmirch what good there is left our your good name. We need intelligent people like you to work with, not to resent for some high school prank.

Regards,

Dean

Please everyone I did not want this avalanche of Stiffler to start. You are free to believe any way you want about his clams. All I intended was to explain how his circuit works and challenge him calling my breakdown of his circuit "crap". If you think it will work try it if not don't. This is between me and him. He may plead the 5th and then its over.

dean_mcgowan

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #616 on: November 15, 2007, 02:03:41 PM »
No .. its between him and all of us.. please try and remember this is a public forum and that he has offered his contribution to it as have you as have I.

Treating Dr Stiffler like some coy child is .. well .. you know how it is.

Regards,

Dean

canam101

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #617 on: November 15, 2007, 02:08:21 PM »


Please everyone I did not want this avalanche of Stiffler to start.

Stiffler left the Vortex forum because somebody dared to ask a few vaguely skeptical questions. If he hadn't got ticked off at something you said, he would have gotten ticked off at something else.

AhuraMazda

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #618 on: November 15, 2007, 02:20:53 PM »
No .. its between him and all of us.. please try and remember this is a public forum and that he has offered his contribution to it as have you as have I.

Treating Dr Stiffler like some coy child is .. well .. you know how it is.

Regards,

Dean

@dean
Since the beginning of this year you have posted 10 messages. 6 of them in this thread and not one of the in the spirit of co-operation. I believe I am beginning to understand how people like Bob Boyce or Bedini feel like.

AM

MeggerMan

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #619 on: November 15, 2007, 02:27:05 PM »
According to Dr Stiffler's website, one experiment was done with a 9v 655 mAHr zinc carbon battery as the supply.
He got 27 hours of use with 10 x white leds rated at 3.8V 21mA with equates to 0.798 watts (that assumes the LED's are on 100% of the cycle).
Power from the battery is 9V x 0.655 AHr = 5.895 Watts for one hour or more realistically, 0.5895 watts for 10 hours.
Power out is 0.798 x 27 hours = 21.54 watts for one hour or 2.154 watts for 10 hours.

So 3.6 times more out than in or 360% efficient.
(Sorry for any errors in my  maths)

The only thing that concerns me is that the brightness of the LED is only apparent brightness and that its flashing on and off 1000's of time a second.
The fillament bulb is a much better example and I would be more confident of the results from this.

@ DrZLowe7,
Still waiting for cores, should be here soon hopefully. I ordered some diodes and a couple of variable caps too.

Regards
Rob



canam101

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #620 on: November 15, 2007, 03:16:01 PM »

The only thing that concerns me is that the brightness of the LED is only apparent brightness and that its flashing on and off 1000's of time a second.

Does this mean that, so far, there is zero evidence that the circuit is OU? In other words, as far as we know, it is a standard circuit - an rf generator with the antenna connected directly to to the LEDs? The kind of thing that is used in a flashgun?

I sincerely hope that Dr. Stiffler will show up again with some real evidence for OU.

hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #621 on: November 15, 2007, 03:33:56 PM »
Hi Dean,
dont you think, lighting a few LEDs with just a ground cable is not quite amazing without any battery and all shielded ? So please be more polite. It is not a public forum, but my forum. Many thanks for understanding.
Regards, Stefan.

canam101

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #622 on: November 15, 2007, 03:49:42 PM »
Hi Dean,
dont you think, lighting a few LEDs with just a ground cable is not quite amazing without any battery and all shielded ?

Stefan, I'm not an experimenter, so maybe I am confused, but from reading the posts here, I thought that the circuit is powered, and that it is RF that is powering the diodes through the wire from the coil. i.e., that the wire is an antenna carrying the RF. There is no 'shielding' between the coil wire and the LEDs, is there? I mean, you can put all the aluminum baking pans you want around the circuit, but the antenna is still sitting next to the LEDs.

It sounds to me like the same kind of thing I used to do when I held a neon bulb near a transmitter antenna cable and the bulb would light up.

From what I have read, nobody has managed to figure out how much power is going in vs. how much power is needed to light the LEDs. Until then, what evidence is there that the circuit is any different from an ordinary circuit?

The problem I have is that Stiffler refuses to do anything but give little dribs and drabs of pretty much useless information and is letting experimenters spend time and money floundering around building a standard flash circuit. That is not a very nice thing to do to people.

And when someone asks any question that sounds the slightest bit skeptical, he goes off in a huff.

If somebody has invented the greatest thing since fire, you'd think he would be sending samples to testing laboratories, and publishing exact specs. And, biggest of all, taking some of the output and using it as input - making the thing self-sustaining.

We haven't seen any of that, and at this point, I doubt we ever will.

DrZLowe7

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #623 on: November 15, 2007, 03:59:57 PM »
According to Dr Stiffler's website, one experiment was done with a 9v 655 mAHr zinc carbon battery as the supply.
He got 27 hours of use with 10 x white leds rated at 3.8V 21mA with equates to 0.798 watts (that assumes the LED's are on 100% of the cycle).
Power from the battery is 9V x 0.655 AHr = 5.895 Watts for one hour or more realistically, 0.5895 watts for 10 hours.
Power out is 0.798 x 27 hours = 21.54 watts for one hour or 2.154 watts for 10 hours.

So 3.6 times more out than in or 360% efficient.
(Sorry for any errors in my  maths)

The only thing that concerns me is that the brightness of the LED is only apparent brightness and that its flashing on and off 1000's of time a second.
The fillament bulb is a much better example and I would be more confident of the results from this.

@ DrZLowe7,
Still waiting for cores, should be here soon hopefully. I ordered some diodes and a couple of variable caps too.

Regards
Rob




I must state again I only described the function of circuit not its performance. Next the LED's are most likely rated at 21ma that does not mean they are using full power a LED will operate quite brightly at much lower than the rated value. (I am not saying he did check the current I just see 21Ma and assume that is LED's rating).  Another thing if it is flashing 1000's times a second your eyes can not detect the flicker still it is energized 50% of the time and of 50% of the time this will extend the life of the power source 2 times as the device is in the off state 50% of the time. This will appear to be overunity of 2X. This also applies if it strobes slow or fast. With a fast strobe the capacitor does not discharge completely the next charging pulse arriving to the capacitor does not take as much current to recharge it again still reducing current draw. Again with a strobe circuit do not assume 100% cycle or should I say constant output drive. Still 360% is very good. Or even if you divide it by 2 still very good. Hope you can reproduce his results. Even if you have longer than usual battery life still good. And yes a filament type bulb will display the current draw increase or decrease better that a LED at least until it gets near white hot..

MeggerMan

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #624 on: November 15, 2007, 05:41:10 PM »
Just to revise my comment about the flashing of the LED:
I have just remembered that from experimenting with the PIC chip that switching and LED on and off 1000's of times a second just produces a very dimly lit LED.
So putting a scope across the LEDs and looking at the value of series resistor it may be possible to calculate output power.
I suppose the load is odd in that the current will only start flow once the voltage exceeds say 2V per LED (or there abouts).
If nothing else this will make an excellent circuit for a bycle light or work lamp, camping lamp etc.

Regards
Rob

DrZLowe7

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #625 on: November 15, 2007, 06:01:06 PM »
Just to revise my comment about the flashing of the LED:
I have just remembered that from experimenting with the PIC chip that switching and LED on and off 1000's of times a second just produces a very dimly lit LED.
So putting a scope across the LEDs and looking at the value of series resistor it may be possible to calculate output power.
I suppose the load is odd in that the current will only start flow once the voltage exceeds say 2V per LED (or there abouts).
If nothing else this will make an excellent circuit for a bycle light or work lamp, camping lamp etc.

Regards
Rob

Just something to try. Power your LED through a diode this will cause some more voltage drop but still may work. And place a capacitor from the diode connection at the LED to ground. Try different values if you have them 10uf or so. If you have a very large value it may take a while before the capacitor becomes fully charged and the LED begins to glow even 10uf may take a little while. This should brighten them up a little maybe and reduce ripple so you make tests.
Got to go now for the day I have to work some.

MeggerMan

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #626 on: November 15, 2007, 08:17:54 PM »
Hi Zachary,
Quote
Just something to try. Power your LED through a diode this will cause some more voltage drop but still may work. And place a capacitor from the diode connection at the LED to ground. Try different values if you have them 10uf or so. If you have a very large value it may take a while before the capacitor becomes fully charged and the LED begins to glow even 10uf may take a little while. This should brighten them up a little maybe and reduce ripple so you make tests.
This would be the obvious answer but I think that adding a capacitor will unbalance the circuit and certainly load the primary at a different phase angle/position.
Perhaps Dr Stiffler has already tried this and found that it killed the output.
I want to have a go at this circuit and see what output I can get, I have most of the components - low power mosfets, some diodes, 13000mcd white LEDs etc. I do not have a big choice of inductors but what I can try is winding a coil onto a huge toroidal core.
T650-52
http://www.micrometals.com/pcparts/torcore7.html

Mount it all on this board:
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/Inverter_testing.jpg)
Regards
Rob


dean_mcgowan

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #627 on: November 15, 2007, 08:33:57 PM »
No .. its between him and all of us.. please try and remember this is a public forum and that he has offered his contribution to it as have you as have I.

Treating Dr Stiffler like some coy child is .. well .. you know how it is.

Regards,

Dean

@dean
Since the beginning of this year you have posted 10 messages. 6 of them in this thread and not one of the in the spirit of co-operation. I believe I am beginning to understand how people like Bob Boyce or Bedini feel like.

AM

Are you referring to my comments made to the other brats that were diluting this forum with their hogwash ?

They scurried off soon enough too .. i really dont mind genuine efforts even if they are misguided though this is honestly somthing else. Is it just me who can see it ?

I promise i will say no more on this issue Stefan ... i respect this is your forum. Hope to contribute something more positive in the future.

Regards,

Dean


amigo

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #628 on: November 16, 2007, 12:44:19 AM »
I really do not see what's everyone's obsession with O/U at all. The way I see it is that one day (I hope soon in our future) we'll have a black box that you would plug your devices in and you'd have power. This box will self-regulate and adjust to power requirements of the devices connected. How that box works and what's inside it will totally be irrelevant to 99% of the people on this planet, as it should.

No doubt there will be people even then who would find the "hair in the egg" with this black box, and question its operation, but that's just natural human behaviour. Bottom line is who cares, if it works and provides us with clean and sufficient/replacement power to existing sources, it is something we do not have right now and badly need.

Yet, none of the above really matters at all and most of you fail to step back and look at the pieces of the "big picture". I do not say I know the "big picture" but from what little I could piece together over the years, the implications of having a black box providing power go beyond quarreling electronics enthusiasts and into political, economical and social interests, aspects and areas of our lives. Matter a fact they begin there, the technological part is the least of our problems and worries, and if we are to believe those few "insiders", the technology to achieve what we seek has been around for at least 50 if not 100 years.

Problem is that when you have a black box power your devices you become an individual, which in this context means a detached entity from the rest of the collective. You have partially went "off the grid" and are one step closer to truly being free from the burdens in life. And now I'll stop here and let you reflect on this because its implications are far reaching, just think about it...

zaydana

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #629 on: November 16, 2007, 04:30:15 AM »
I haven't received my coils yet, so I can't run this experiment myself yet, but if somebody can run it, it could possibly give us some hard evidence that the circuit is drawing in energy from the environment. Its entirely possible Dr. Stiffler or somebody else has already run this experiment, but until everybody (and I mean everybody, not just one side of this argument) gives some experimental proof of OU, this thread is just going to be a collection of opinions, and rather hostile ones at that.

What needs to be done is to measure:
1. The power being consumed Dr. Stiffler's driver circuit, at the signal generator, and the brightness of the LEDs it is powering
2. The power consumed by the same LEDs (at the same brightness) when powered directly by the signal generator.

Note: The waveform being produced by the signal generator for 2 must be exactly the same as the waveform produced by the driver circuit in 1. As such, the signal generator may need to be adjusted between 1 and 2. This is because the efficiency of the actual LEDs may be different when driven by specific signals (as discussed by some people already).

Also, make sure when measuring the power consumed by the driver circuit or the plain LEDs that you account for the fact that it is AC power you are dealing with - you probably don't just want to stick a multimeter over it.

If it takes more power to drive the LEDs to the same brightness without the driver circuit, then obviously the driver circuit is bringing energy into the system from somewhere. If not, then we haven't necessarily disproved it, we just haven't proved it.

If we find that there *is* extra energy coming into the system, another interesting experiment to run would be to measure the difference in power over the actual LEDs at the same brightness. If we are dealing with cold electricity, then from what I have read, you will likely not see any difference on your instruments in the amount of power the LEDs are consuming - thus why you must measure the actual driver circuit's input.

@Dr. Stiffler:
Please don't take offence at this post; personally, I am of the opinion that you are actually onto something. While your circuit must bear some resemblance to existing RF stuff for so many people to point it out, the other things you've posted such as your ground-only circuit and the SEC stuff show that RF can't be the whole story. I simply want to put this experiment out there, as I think a bit of hard experimental evidence it would clear up a lot of the non-constructive name-calling this thread has going on at the moment.