Author Topic: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler (Read 1480699 times)

xee · « **Reply #510 on:** November 04, 2007, 07:15:25 PM »

Ben,
Well, I thought I saw a mistake, but they seem to be OK. You should probably check for yourself to be sure. It has been a while since I have done this kind of thing.

hartiberlin · « **Reply #511 on:** November 04, 2007, 07:53:04 PM »

Quote from: MarkSnoswell on November 03, 2007, 01:55:51 PM

Quote from: k4zep on November 03, 2007, 01:28:04 PM
There IS a basic resonance frequency for the BF coil/CORE device. That is where its output is! I now suspect that the input L/C circuit must match that frequency for maximum output. ... I'm going to put a variable cap. to replace the 400 pf I have in there right now, give or take and see if this "theory" is correct.

The fundamental resonance appears to come from the inductance of the secondary and the junction capacitance of the IN4148 diodes. I have attached the datasheet here. The secondary sees a complex capacitance from the two AP diodes -- however even a sinple LC resonance calculation shows that the figures agree pretty well. Here is a link to a good LC resonance calculator http://www.pronine.ca/lcf.htm. If you want to tune further then set up a resonator on the primary side for the same frequency...

You could try to tune the two just out of phase -- this will result in the power beating between the input and output -- exactly the same as in good tesla coil design. This may work better than exact tuning as the total power transfered wont be any less but the higher voltages at the AP may reduce losses in power transfer there. It's hard to predict and the tight coupling of the primary and secondary may limit this aproach.

Whatever you do -- tuning the primary side to the same frequency will certainty reduce losses in the AP and inprove power transfer.

cheers

mark.

Hi Mark,
many thanks for posting the 1N4148 spec PDF file.
I didn?t know, that they are this fast( about 4 ns switch time), I thought
they would be as slow as a normal 1N4007...

I have at my Avramenko Plug LED just DC voltage behind the
1 x 1N4148 diodes.

Ben, how much voltage do you have there with your design,
when you draw 25 milliamps ?

What is the maximum power output you can draw from the
AP via a constant load resistor ?
Many thanks.

P.S: Dr.Stiffler has so far put great effort in documenting the circuits
and effects, so bear with him,if he did not yet publish all.
It really takes times to document it all and we arenow still in the
phase to find the right parameters,so documentation comes at the
last step..

hartiberlin · « **Reply #512 on:** November 04, 2007, 07:55:14 PM »

Here is an interesting 20 Mhz function generator
with all circuit board PCB layout and all you need to know
to build it with the MAX038 IC.

If you squeeze it it can also go up to about 25 to 30Mhz the author
said...

http://alternatezone.com/electronics/hsfg.htm

Regards, Stefan.

xee · « **Reply #513 on:** November 04, 2007, 08:00:36 PM »

Ben,
I suspect that L1 adds enough inductance to force the impedance looking into it to be inductive. Then C1 cancels the inductive reactance so that the impedance looking into C1 is pure real at resonance. This allows more power from generator to be used since all of the voltage is going across a real impedance. I no longer have a lab so I can not check this myself.

k4zep · « **Reply #514 on:** November 04, 2007, 09:24:30 PM »

Hi Gang,

This is getting deep fast! Got to do some thinking. Right now I'm hitting a wall on the device. Too bad I had to get rid of my lifetime of reference material when I moved to the condo in FL. Now I have to use NET as reference source. Sometimes knowing what to ask is as hard as measuring it.

Output is pretty easy to measure across the low impedance of the AV plug/LED/Cap device, Input is a BITCH! There is series Inductive and capacitive reactance and the resultant phase shift or lack of it! Then there is the actual waveform @ the input. Then too, what do you use as the common to keep it real! Does it all reflect back across the L & C reluctance too and Through the generator to ground or the parasitic capacitance to ground. I haven't worried about complex nodal RF circuits in 40-45 years. .Probably easiest way would be to build a good simple unity FET RF driver with good isolation and decoupling and measure pure DC power into it like Dr. Stiffler does......Arrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggg. Charley Brown.

Ben

hartiberlin · « **Reply #515 on:** November 04, 2007, 09:32:08 PM »

I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:

k4zep · « **Reply #516 on:** November 04, 2007, 09:33:05 PM »

Quote from: xee on November 04, 2007, 08:00:36 PM

Ben,
I suspect that L1 adds enough inductance to force the impedance looking into it to be inductive. Then C1 cancels the inductive reactance so that the impedance looking into C1 is pure real at resonance. This allows more power from generator to be used since all of the voltage is going across a real impedance. I no longer have a lab so I can not check this myself.

That is very logical and basically the way I look at it. How do you show the return path for the RF?? Logically and to the core that is what bugs me more than anything! I realize @ 7-10 MHz, capacitive reactance builds up fast and might be the return path for all the parasitic elements in the circuit. Current peaks and voltage dips @ resonance around the input. It always boils down to the fine points. For my self who is more of a puttering builder, (darn it, this is JUST a hobby) I have always disliked the documenting of devices like this! But then there comes a time like this........

Ben..

k4zep · « **Reply #517 on:** November 04, 2007, 10:03:01 PM »

Quote from: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 09:32:08 PM

I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:

Great jumping Jehoshaphat...I have been worrying about a return ground, latest schematic shows everything with a common ground! Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't, I.............do.................sheeesssssssh...

xee · « **Reply #518 on:** November 04, 2007, 10:03:05 PM »

Ben,
I would think that the best place to use for a return would be the generator ground return since the impedance the generator output sees is referenced to that point and you are trying to determine how much power is coming out of the generator (what load it sees).

k4zep · « **Reply #519 on:** November 04, 2007, 10:05:00 PM »

Quote from: mramos on November 04, 2007, 09:48:26 PM

Quote from: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 09:32:08 PM
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:

The 555 is is not a good chip for this. But either way, glad to see the func-gen gone. I asked before and saw clearly Dr. S said no func-gen and all the post I hear about the freq from the func-gen.

The VCC and ground on the circuit can tell what power is put in and the Rl can tell output power.

I would still check it with a scope. Also, 20Mhz? That is a 555 timer, it ain't going there? Maybe a new one is out that I have not heard about (but they have not done anything with that hobby timer chip for years)?

Last, the N-channel FETs are not a problem, or the Q's. but again confused on the 2 coils (with or without a core), with no values (rough ones posted if I read or have Ebay) and still I see that L3 in there.. Are there values for them? Is the L3 a choke or something thrown in? Like the first version or starting points?

I have not and will not build it until there are clear specs (and yes I have these parts and the same proto board).

But looks like it is getting closer. Will pop in soon and see where all are.

Ben, where in Florida PM me.

555 for the 1Hz. discharge, I'm In St. Petersburg, FL

Ben

hartiberlin · « **Reply #520 on:** November 04, 2007, 10:11:45 PM »

Yes, the Rload in his circuit is his incand. bulb that is energized
every second once, when the cap is full via the 555 chip 1 Hz generator.

Hmm, Ben, do you also get at your AP LED a DC voltage, when you don?t have
a cap there ?

Normally I would have expected a pulsed DC, but I have a pure DC without a cap there,
just looked with the scope only directly at the LED...
Hmm..radio frequency circuits are really strange sometimes..

k4zep · « **Reply #521 on:** November 04, 2007, 11:31:16 PM »

Quote from: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 10:11:45 PM

Yes, the Rload in his circuit is his incand. bulb that is energized
every second once, when the cap is full via the 555 chip 1 Hz generator.

Hmm, Ben, do you also get at your AP LED a DC voltage, when you don?t have
a cap there ?Yes I do, enough parasitic cap. @ 10 MHz to integrate the pulsations. Cap will also charge up if you replace the LED's with it. Just watch out, voltage can get pretty high on it. Mine goes above 100VDC in several seconds. Dr. Stiffler's must be a barn burner to charge over 600uf to 120V in 1 second!!!

Normally I would have expected a pulsed DC, but I have a pure DC without a cap there,
just looked with the scope only directly at the LED...
Hmm..radio frequency circuits are really strange sometimes..

k4zep · « **Reply #522 on:** November 04, 2007, 11:33:51 PM »

Quote from: mramos on November 04, 2007, 11:24:17 PM

So a 555 with nothing on the threshold, discharge and trigger runs at 1hz? News to me. But I do not use them a lot.That part missing but standard pots and cap. Short on time. (Inverted)

The the other side of the circuit is the osc. OK.

It does not matter still as VCC and ground you can see the input current and Rload the output. And no telling what that 555 will do floating like that. Circuit imcomplete, look at photos, you will see what is missing.

This is a long way away from the first couple circuits, but still listening.. Just glad there is no function generator hooked to it.

At least now it is getting to a point where I can build one, after I see more components on the 555 Still like to see values on the schematic for L1/L2/L3 as well. I have to antique radios (AM only before FM) that I do not need.

And Stefan said it worked as well without the core. This still the case? I have not pulled them out

DrStiffler · « **Reply #523 on:** November 05, 2007, 01:57:55 AM »

Quote from: mramos on November 04, 2007, 11:24:17 PM

So a 555 with nothing on the threshold, discharge and trigger runs at 1hz? News to me. But I do not use them a lot.

The the other side of the circuit is the osc. OK.

It does not matter still as VCC and ground you can see the input current and Rload the output. And no telling what that 555 will do floating like that.

This is a long way away from the first couple circuits, but still listening.. Just glad there is no function generator hooked to it.

At least now it is getting to a point where I can build one, after I see more components on the 555 Still like to see values on the schematic for L1/L2/L3 as well. I have to antique radios (AM only before FM) that I do not need.

And Stefan said it worked as well without the core. This still the case? I have not pulled them out

Really! If you need help in making a 555 pulse 50% duty cycle, 2 R's and one capacitor. Please don't waste your time with my circuits, this is the simplest part of any of them.

smoky · « **Reply #524 on:** November 05, 2007, 02:14:46 AM »

In Dr Stifflers circuit above the Emitter seems to be shorted to the Base divider network.
It looks like a Colpits oscillator so I guess it shoud be open at this point?
Smoky

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Author Topic: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler (Read 1480699 times)

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