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Author Topic: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler  (Read 1470248 times)

k4zep

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #495 on: November 04, 2007, 01:38:46 AM »
Dr. Stiffler has just updated his website with
a higher power incand. bulb output experiment.

Have a look at his new scopeshots.

Reminds me a lot at the scopeshots that Roberto und Otto
got  in their TPU research...

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp


Regards, Stefan.
Good evening Stefan, Dr. Stiffler and all,

Well messing around this evening some more and some interesting results but first, I don't see the schematic of the High Power Unit on the web page, it is pretty straightforward but seems to be missing.

Second, I show a schematic of where I am right now.  Notice CX (C2) this provides positive regenerative feedback and when the circuit is tuned dead on, significant more output in my unit.  I only offer it for reference.  You can see that with C-1 now, I can peak the L/C circuit to match the L2/L3/Cx circuit.  This is just a start to see if my idea worked.......CX is .047uf mylar in my case.  I have no idea if that is optimal.  Just something to think about while I wait for good coils to come in.

Oh, Stefan, I heartly recomment you get a good Sig generator of at least 20 Mhz and probably from what I see on the scope shots from Dr. S, 50 Mhz!.  Your circuit is great but you need a GOOD TUNABLE device it sure makes life easier!
Ben

hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #496 on: November 04, 2007, 02:55:45 AM »
Hi Ben,
interesting feedback.

Will try it tommorow.
I have to go earlier to bed now in the next days, so I just don?t live at nights only... ;D

What about this function generator ?

You can buy it as a kit for a built kit ready to go.

http://www.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=6325

But it only goes to 20 Mhz.

Maybe Ron can tell us, what the highest frequency is, that is required ?

But I will also have a look at ebay.

Regards, Stefan.

k4zep

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #497 on: November 04, 2007, 06:12:19 AM »
Hi Ben,
interesting feedback.

Will try it tommorow.
I have to go earlier to bed now in the next days, so I just don?t live at nights only... ;D

What about this function generator ?

You can buy it as a kit for a built kit ready to go.

http://www.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=6325

But it only goes to 20 Mhz.

Maybe Ron can tell us, what the highest frequency is, that is required ?

But I will also have a look at ebay.

Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan,

I know what you mean about sleep.  It is 1:09 A.M.  I have spent the last 7 hours humped over a scope and trying to better understand this circuit.  It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.  It appears that it has to be a potential fed circuit and not a current fed circuit.  Everything seems to depend on it having the least switching current @ the highest potential into the open ended device whereupon output potential is converted into current via the AV plug. The LC circuit basically takes the low impedance of the sig. gen and converts it to HV RF to drive the BF coil hence the AV plug.

Generator looks good but if you can get a HP, Tecktronic,  B&K, or any good RF sig generator that has a good power supply and well shielded would be better in the long run.

If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU.  Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed but I suspect that procedure is faulted.  If you keep the impedance/resistance low in the input circuit, drive with pure potential switching back and forth power flows via the longitudinal potential only waves.  I'm up to about .166 Watt output now, very bright 10 LEDs with virtually no input current (I think) trying to find/buy a RF probe to get a more accurate series of voltages across the circuit.....Hummmmm just had another idea..Going to wait till tomorrow................Man I'm pooped, tired...... going to sleep on it......I'm gone to bed.

73's

Ben K4ZEP


MarkSnoswell

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #498 on: November 04, 2007, 07:50:33 AM »
If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU.  Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed

Raising the input resistance is one of the best ways to measure input characteristics in dificult to measure circuits... you keep raising the input resistance untill the output drops to 50% -- this tells you the input impedance of the circuit.

If the circuit was running in a potential only drive mode then you could raise the input impedance a long way -- to say M ohms or at least 100's K ohms, before the output dropped to 50%. The fact that you cant raise the input impedance much indicates that the circuit really requires a significant current to drive it...  This makes sense as it appears to be a seris LC resonant circuit which will give high voltage rise but needs a very low impedance to drive it. You could think of it as a low to high impedance matching network -- this is a great way to generate high voltages from low voltage (current mostly) drive without a transformer. Voltage gains are only limited by the impedance ratio and the Q. Google "impedance matching network" for more information.

mark.

canam101

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #499 on: November 04, 2007, 02:04:06 PM »
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

DrStiffler

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #500 on: November 04, 2007, 03:32:13 PM »
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

Quote from: RStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:10:15 PM

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.

Gee, back to try again, and here we thought you were a man that stood behind his word. Guess not?

canam101

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #501 on: November 04, 2007, 03:44:24 PM »
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

Quote from: RStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:10:15 PM

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.

Gee, back to try again, and here we thought you were a man that stood behind his word. Guess not?

It's a reasonable question and directed toward making it possible for people to replicate the circuit. If you really want to give this to the world, why don't you publish enough detail to enable people to replicate it?

I'm not asking the experimenters to waste time on my questions, I'm asking you, the only person who knows exactly what your circuit consists of, to give the experimenters the information they need to replicate it.

k4zep

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #502 on: November 04, 2007, 03:53:43 PM »
Good Morning Dr. Snoswell,

The problem with being older is not what you remember but what you forget.  I forgot the simple test of increasing non inductive resistance in an input RF circuit till output drops to 50% as the simple test for impedance!!!!!

To make a long story short, but after a heck of a lot of test as it takes time to figure out how to work with this circuit, I find that the imput impedance of my circuit is very close to 250 ohms.  I will say that I have verified that 2 different ways.

Working @ RF frequencies, the waveform degradation due to working a fundamental and harmonics of wavelengths, the diode drops, the LED drops, all allows multitudes of factors to be taken into account in this circuit when trying to calculate Input Vs. Output.  It would appear that the circuit is still OU but at the mw range, measurements are tedious at best. This circuit can drive you crazy but unless the coil "pings" and puts out the goodies it is no banana!

I'm going to clean up my small workspace now and wait for the good coils to come in, should be in early next week.  I am MOST interested in the dual push pull circuit that works ONLY from a ground lead and self Osc!!!!!  The AV plug doesn't care a darn about what is feeding it, it just pumps away and provides its own loading in there.  IF the BF coil adds to the feedthrough, that is where the gravy is!!!!!

Ben



 
If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU.  Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed

Raising the input resistance is one of the best ways to measure input characteristics in dificult to measure circuits... you keep raising the input resistance untill the output drops to 50% -- this tells you the input impedance of the circuit.

If the circuit was running in a potential only drive mode then you could raise the input impedance a long way -- to say M ohms or at least 100's K ohms, before the output dropped to 50%. The fact that you cant raise the input impedance much indicates that the circuit really requires a significant current to drive it...  This makes sense as it appears to be a seris LC resonant circuit which will give high voltage rise but needs a very low impedance to drive it. You could think of it as a low to high impedance matching network -- this is a great way to generate high voltages from low voltage (current mostly) drive without a transformer. Voltage gains are only limited by the impedance ratio and the Q. Google "impedance matching network" for more information.

mark.


Mr.Entropy

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #503 on: November 04, 2007, 03:54:38 PM »
I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

He has published complete specs.  What you have here is a bunch of people not doing exactly what he said.  You don't really expect him to write more detail that people don't follow, do you?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

DrStiffler

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #504 on: November 04, 2007, 03:54:53 PM »
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

Quote from: RStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:10:15 PM

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

And you ARE? The untimate authority fro all and keeper of the faith.

If you were able to read a schematic and a parts list, duplicate as stated (exact) then even you could build one.



















Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.

Gee, back to try again, and here we thought you were a man that stood behind his word. Guess not?

It's a reasonable question and directed toward making it possible for people to replicate the circuit. If you really want to give this to the world, why don't you publish enough detail to enable people to replicate it?

I'm not asking the experimenters to waste time on my questions, I'm asking you, the only person who knows exactly what your circuit consists of, to give the experimenters the information they need to replicate it.

canam101

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #505 on: November 04, 2007, 04:05:31 PM »
I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

He has published complete specs.  What you have here is a bunch of people not doing exactly what he said.  You don't really expect him to write more detail that people don't follow, do you?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy


If that's true, then it is the incompetence of the experimenters that we are seeing. But I have the impression that these are knowledgeable people, who can build a device from good specs.

armagdn03

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #506 on: November 04, 2007, 04:10:15 PM »
And many of them are! calm down and watch.

k4zep

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #507 on: November 04, 2007, 04:47:28 PM »
And many of them are! calm down and watch.
Hi All,

I agree.  Don't get in a tizzy and don't anyone put out any "Wedggies".  There are OBVIOUSLY a lot of good well versed folk out there.  I can't say how much good input and theoretical help I have received from several people.  Calculating the basic free air input impedance/resistance is a big help in understand this VERY strange circuit.  I have played with many circuits over the years and this ones beats all.

It is strange because the AV plug does neat things in thin air that are reflected back on the input.  Knowing the input voltage, resistance and hence current really enables you to make some fairly good calculations in some respect.  Every few min I work with this, better ways to calculate and use the circuit comes up.  I stopped and cleaned up my 2X4 Shop and had an new idea. 

It seems the more you isolate the whole circuit, remove parasitic capacitance, the more efficient it becomes.  Dr. Stiffler mentioned that to me in one of his post.  IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.  I have now chopped off both of my leads that are not used in the BF coil and placed coil up on wood block away from plate capacitance of backplain.  Another strange thing, it seems the output of the AV plug is a constant current source till you exceed the max peak voltage put out by the large coil on the BF core.  Dead shorted I can get 25 ma out of the AV plug.......IF you look back at the input of 22V @ 250 ohms,, funny numbers...........I still don't know if you take the theoretical input power and always use that power IN from gen in your calculations of the output.  Depending on my loading, I get a COP of from 4 to about 10 to one.  Again, loading of a AV plug is a curious thing.  It just is unsettling.?

Sure could use some theoretical help here.

Ben K4ZEP

xee

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #508 on: November 04, 2007, 06:04:03 PM »
Ben,
You may know this already but this is another way to measure input impedance (see attachment):


xee

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #509 on: November 04, 2007, 06:38:33 PM »
Ben,
Equations are wrong. Please ignore my last post. I will try to fix them.