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Author Topic: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler  (Read 1006670 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #75 on: October 16, 2007, 09:40:21 PM »
schematic:




Hmm, are you sure this is the circuit ?
I see still a resistor connected to the black connector holder,
which comes from the signal generator...



I just got a message from Dr.Stiffler stating it is just a 50 ohm
load resistor for the signal generator to match the impedance.

Well in this case it seems more likely,
that we really see here more energy out than in.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline armagdn03

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #76 on: October 17, 2007, 12:22:39 AM »
I was just reading over this thread to see if I missed something and I hope Dr. Stiffler reads this post.

I have successfully recreated one wire transmision, and the circuit will never display RE cold effects with an AC signal that floats over and under 0 volts. If yo have a normal AC signal, you will be both sucking and emiting energy from the enviroment. What you need is positive pulses only, I would do this with a single rectifier diode or with the generator set to "pulse" mode.


Offline armagdn03

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #77 on: October 17, 2007, 12:25:12 AM »
read this, the writings of Frolov led me to my one wire transmision circuit, and he explains the perameters needed very clearly. this was an invlauble document.

http://keelynet.com/energy/frolov1.htm

Offline linda933

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #78 on: October 17, 2007, 12:31:26 AM »
schematic:




Hmm, are you sure this is the circuit ?
I see still a resistor connected to the black connector holder,
which comes from the signal generator...



I just got a message from Dr.Stiffler stating it is just a 50 ohm
load resistor for the signal generator to match the impedance.

Well in this case it seems more likely,
that we really see here more energy out than in.

I don't see how identifying a fifty ohm terminating resistor disproves any theory that the sig gen is supplying the power to light the LED.  We still need to see a direct scope shot or other accurate power or current measurement on the signal being supplied by the generator. 

Just because there is a fifty ohm resistor stuck on the signal doesn't mean it (the input signal) might not be "seeing" five or ten ohms total including whatever loading impedance the coil(s) and LED circuit impose in parallel.  Many if not all quality sig gens can pump big current into high VSWR loads well below 50 ohms!  Many are guaranteed to run into 20 or 30:1 VSWRs at any phase angle.  That could be a total complex load as low as two ohms or less.

Linda


Offline jonesbeene

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #79 on: October 17, 2007, 12:40:43 AM »
Linda sez:  "Just because there is a fifty ohm resistor stuck on the signal doesn't mean it (the input signal) might not be "seeing" five or ten ohms total including whatever loading impedance the coil(s) and LED circuit impose in parallel.  Many if not all quality sig gens can pump big current into high VSWR loads well below 50 ohms!"

So what you are saying, in effect, is that Dr. Stiffler cannot measure and match impedance - and consequently he is expending all of this effort - and sacrificing 40 years of experience in RF engineering in order to trick some unsuspecting circuit builders?

Most of the commentators here (if they are not waiting for parts) have wasted more time in belittling this effort than they would have expended to replicate it and show their own results.

Including me  ;-)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #79 on: October 17, 2007, 12:40:43 AM »
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Offline linda933

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #80 on: October 17, 2007, 12:54:44 AM »
There is no belittling going on at least in my mind.  What is happening is a normal, standard, scientific effort to try to explain what appears to be happening using only purely conventional known phenomena.  Why is this considered to be taboo and odd and mean, somehow?  99.9999999% of all purported and reported OU and "free energy" has turned out to be measurement error so far.

That's what we do as researchers if we are scientific about it.  We seek to find an explanation that fits the facts!  Before concluding that excess energy or free energy is being observed, doesn't it make common sense to measure the input and output energy accurately?  At least? 

Let's keep our feet on the ground here, people!  Leaping to glorious "mysterious energy" conclusions without first making any accurate measurements whatsoever seems to be in very much vogue here!  I'm not suggesting anyone is trying to fool anyone...it just seems like the avoidance of accurate measurement is rampant and a "cornerstone" in so many of these projects!  What's up with that attitude?

Linda

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2007, 01:42:45 AM »
We would need 4 scopeshots to determine
the power out / power in relationship:

1. Voltage at the 50 Ohm resistor
2. voltage at a 1 Ohm shunt going to the 50 Ohm resistor

3. Voltage at the LED
4. current through the LED via a 1 Ohm shunt


Then we can definately say, what is going on.

of course all sweep times usec/div
and amplifier settings must be provided : Volts/div.

Many thanks.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2007, 01:42:45 AM »
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Offline jonesbeene

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #82 on: October 17, 2007, 02:03:00 AM »
linda933: "Leaping to glorious "mysterious energy" conclusions without first making any accurate measurements whatsoever seems to be in very much vogue here!  I'm not suggesting anyone is trying to fool anyone...it just seems like the avoidance of accurate measurement is rampant and a "cornerstone" in so many of these projects!  What's up with that attitude?"

Indeed. There are many "attitudes" being displayed here, and without making value judgments, it would seem that yours is based in Academia or from a Corporate-Culture where cost and equipment is no object. Lovely - but that is not the case here, where expediency and practicality often dictate that more can be accomplished with a handful of replication attempts costing a few hundred $ each- than with the extraordinary expense of  whizz-bang 1000X probes to see what's going on without scaring away the genie doing the work (as a colleague has opined) -- maybe a P6015a, 100M impedence, 3 pF capacitance, 75 MHz bandwidth (shabby bandwidth but enough for this application). Darn things are kind of expensive, unfortunately: http://www.valuetronics.com/vt/assets/pdfs/TEK_P6015A,P5100,P5102,P5120.pdf

Wish Ron and the rest of us had the luxury of that step first - but in point of fact a totally self-powering device is even more impressive than meter readings that someone will always quibble over anyway - even if requires more hands-on work and repetitive disappointment than what "should be" the case in a perfect world of adequate funding... and even if this one, like most of the rest - does not pan out. About the only hope for a major contribution from those of us without Corportate, National Lab or Acedemic sponsorship is to ferret out that one-in-a-million anomaly which they stumble on - hopefully a crack in the LoT - and pursue that with a vengeance- and with the help of other hands-on types who are similarly inspired.

Given the urgency of the energy crisis, I see no other hope but to pursue every "decent" lead and every reported anomaly- even if 999,9999 out of a million do not pan out. This one appears to be on the upper-end of that 'decency' range, as of now - your (imaginary?)  high-current SigGens notwithstanding...

Jones



Offline linda933

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #83 on: October 17, 2007, 02:22:17 AM »
linda933: "Leaping to glorious "mysterious energy" conclusions without first making any accurate measurements whatsoever seems to be in very much vogue here!  I'm not suggesting anyone is trying to fool anyone...it just seems like the avoidance of accurate measurement is rampant and a "cornerstone" in so many of these projects!  What's up with that attitude?"

Indeed. There are many "attitudes" being displayed here, and without making value judgments, it would seem that yours is based in Academia or from a Corporate-Culture where cost and equipment is no object. Lovely - but that is not the case here, where expediency and practicality often dictate that more can be accomplished with a handful of replication attempts costing a few hundred $ each- than with the extraordinary expense of  whizz-bang 1000X probes to see what's going on without scaring away the genie doing the work (as a colleague has opined) -- maybe a P6015a, 100M impedence, 3 pF capacitance, 75 MHz bandwidth (shabby bandwidth but enough for this application). Darn things are kind of expensive, unfortunately: http://www.valuetronics.com/vt/assets/pdfs/TEK_P6015A,P5100,P5102,P5120.pdf

Wish Ron and the rest of us had the luxury of that step first - but in point of fact a totally self-powering device is even more impressive than meter readings that someone will always quibble over anyway - even if requires more hands-on work and repetitive disappointment than what "should be" the case in a perfect world of adequate funding... and even if this one, like most of the rest - does not pan out. About the only hope for a major contribution from those of us without Corportate, National Lab or Acedemic sponsorship is to ferret out that one-in-a-million anomaly which they stumble on - hopefully a crack in the LoT - and pursue that with a vengeance- and with the help of other hands-on types who are similarly inspired.

Given the urgency of the energy crisis, I see no other hope but to pursue every "decent" lead and every reported anomaly- even if 999,9999 out of a million do not pan out. This one appears to be on the upper-end of that 'decency' range, as of now - your (imaginary?)  high-current SigGens notwithstanding...

Jones




I'm not trying to discourage replications; far from it.  Why are you using really bad arguments and excuses to try to discourage making measurements?  Whatever gave you the idea a special 1000X high voltage probe would be needed?  We are talking a measly 10MHz and a couple of Volts here!  All I'm suggesting is to stick a couple of one ohm resistors (take ten ten ohm 1% surface mount types in parallel for high accuracy and super-low inductance) in the circuit and take a peek at how much current is flowing in the input and the output.  Total cost maybe $3.00...use standard run-of-the-mill 10X probes and any low-cost low-bandwidth 'scope. 

In order to be of any use in solving real energy needs, I'm afraid any workable approach will have to stand up to actual measurements unless it can be freed from needing any external input at all!  Just a fact of life, not really anything to get upset about.  Don't you think so, really?

Linda

Offline fritz

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2007, 03:21:11 AM »
What happens ?

Imagine that the beads have a low resistance for
the 10MHz switching frequency and high resistance
for the L1,L2,..LED discharging frequency (lets say 50- 100MHz).
On switching off the DC(<=10MHz) part of the L1,L2 reverse voltage charges C1,
the AC part(>=10MHz) is consumed via L2,LED.
This means the pulse generator operates against the negative
voltage of C1 which might be up to 100 Volts.
The pulse generator works with 10kOhm against this
voltage, resulting in a current of 10mA peak - which is the
approx. energy needed to operate the LED.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2007, 03:21:11 AM »
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Offline Freenrg4me

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2007, 03:35:46 AM »
*Removed* by RStiffler
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 09:11:50 PM by RStiffler »

Offline fritz

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2007, 11:27:59 AM »
If we stop looking at the trees and look at the forest for a moment, there is not enough current to saturate that huge chunk of core mass in the slightest. Ron states it won't work without the core and there is only one wire off the secondary to boot. Where is the 25ma of induction?

As I pointed out in my mail above - the 25mA are from the generator.
"Normally" this energy cannot be consumed with 10k input resistance
and 2Vpp. The circuit generates an "inner" negative resonance voltage
which makes the signal generator work against these voltage.
The inner voltage maybe somewhere at 50 V (peak).
This means that the power sucked from the generator is
(50+2)^2 / 10kOhm - which is in the some hundred milliwatt range.
This (getting more power from the generator) is achieved by using C1.
L2,L3 transforms the high voltage/low current/100MHz(fundamental) peak pulse into
a low voltage/ high current pulse.
Because of the high frequency/lots of harmonics (probably up to some 100MHz),
its no problem to couple the power using some parasitic capacitor of the breadboard.

The level and art of tricking around with rf circuits is of a high degree.
Discussing the most funny 2048 best rf tricks will keep us busy for years ...
(this was a warning)

Measuring the heat emitted by the 50 Ohm output resistor of the generator
would be the immediate proof (whats going on here)

rgds,

wolfgang


Offline edork

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2007, 01:23:33 PM »
fritz, Hi
How you tell what go into circuit by measure heat on resistor across that is across source and not inline?

I can not do, how?

Offline fritz

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2007, 03:43:54 PM »
OK,

2Vpp square equals 1Vp equals 1Vrms is the generator
voltage without load.
The generator source resistance is 50 Ohms.
The maximum power you can get out is if terminated with
another 50 Ohms.
Means we have a generator with 1Vrms on 100 Ohms gives
10mA output current if terminated)
20mA output current if shorted

You see - even a shorted generator provides less current
as needed for a bright led.

The output resistor of the generator dissipates 20mA^2 * 50 Ohms
 = 20mW. (if shorted)

The LED needs with 25mA@2.73V 68.2kelvin 5mW
Means we would need 68.25mA current from a 1Volt
supply to have equal power.
This 68.25mA would induce a power dissipation of 68mA^2 *50 Ohms
= 232mW on the output resistor.
To have 68.25mA@50 Ohms, you need 3.4125 V on this resistor -
means that the circuit must generate a voltage of -2.41V to
achieve this.

A 1/2 watts resistor can have up to 50 kelvin temperature rise
on nominal load - 500mW.

This means - if happens what I suppose - the generator output resistor
gets measurable hot. - hotter than if generator is shorted.

The 10kOhm resistor should definitly get hot, too.

rgds,

Wolfgang





Offline edork

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2007, 03:57:25 PM »
fritx, Hi again.

What circuit you look at? 10K in parallel with input cap?

He show 1ohm in series with input and only 0,0004 mv acreoss it?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2007, 03:57:25 PM »

 

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