Sticky Spot force update:

I replaced the 25mm deep solenoid with a 12mm deep (shorter) solenoid.
It has the same type silicon steel core as the larger one and same face dimensions.
I used the same 160W input power when activated.

Test results when moving the lever from the Neo into the 12mm Solenoid area:
No power and no added backing neo     = 7.2kg force. (25mm Solenoid = 6.5kg)
No power but added one backing neo    = 5.8kg force. (25mm Solenoid = 5.5kg)
160W input and no added backing neo  = 4.1kg force. (25mm Solenoid = 3.2kg)
160W input but added one backing neo = 2.4kg force. (25mm Solenoid = 1.5kg)

As you can see the results became worse when using a shorter solenoid.

These tests have shown me how a Solenoid reacts to the fields of a permanent magnet.
In order to design the strongest Solenoid possible to help attract the rotorheads past the
sticky spot it must have the same depth as the NdFeb rotor magnet
E.g, if the rotor neo is 5cm thick then its field will reach out approx 5cm at strong flux levels.
This field will enter the solenoid core and get attracted to the field genererated within the core.
If the solenoid was made any longer e.g 10cm, then the 50% of the energy going into the coil
would not affect the neo magnet because the other end is located to far away to contribute any force.
The flux field of a solenoid is always taking the shortest return path, and this is actually inside the core itself.
This is the reason of solenoids having a very weak field at the ends, but the inside of the core is strong.

The next step is to test a Solenoid at 50mm depth to see if my understanding is correct.

By the way, I noticed that you used only one rotor magnet in the earlier test, but now you are using two magnets stacked.

No I didn't use just one magnet in the first set of tests. Please see quoted text from my earlier message
"1pcs of N45 40x18x20mm representing the larger rotor magnet"

The picture I posted was showing just one rotor magnet, but I did not use this setup in the solenoid tests.
I switched to 20mm thickness (2 magnets on top) before testing any of the various combinations.

If you release the rotor from the starting point just after the solenoid, where will it stop? (without activating the coil)

I don't know. I have no complete spiral of stator magnets. But I don't believe it will stand still simply because the torque
from the other rotor magnets well inside the stator spiral will thrust forward with great power.

Does it stop at the last magnet before the coil, or does it stop sooner?

Without speed it will stop a little bit, perhaps 1 or 2cm, before the Solenoid.
But at speed it cannot stop right on the spot. It will travel well past the last stator magnet but it will travel a lot easier
when being helped by the Solenoid. My wodden test rig show a great difference in how far the rotor magnet travels.

No I didn't use just one magnet in the first set of tests. Please see quoted text from my earlier message
"1pcs of N45 40x18x20mm representing the larger rotor magnet"

The picture I posted was showing just one rotor magnet, but I did not use this setup in the solenoid tests.
I switched to 20mm thickness (2 magnets on top) before testing any of the various combinations.

Ok, I took back my bad words on that.


I uploaded the simulations in case someone would like to have a look at them.
These simulations cannot be compared to a real world device, only show a rough approximation of the main principle involved.

I found that in these sims, the sticky spot appears not exactly at the end of the spiral, but some degrees before. And because of this, the motor worked the best (per input ratio) when the operation of the electromagnet was asymmetrical both in timing & field strength, so giving a greater pull for more time, and a smaller push for less. This may or may not be true in a real motor, however I found it interesting.

I would be interested to know about the differences regarding these things, when compared to an operating real world model of the motor.

Have a Good work!

Quote

No I didn't use just one magnet in the first set of tests. Please see quoted text from my earlier message
"1pcs of N45 40x18x20mm representing the larger rotor magnet"

The picture I posted was showing just one rotor magnet, but I did not use this setup in the solenoid tests.
I switched to 20mm thickness (2 magnets on top) before testing any of the various combinations.

Ok, I took back my bad words on that.


I uploaded the simulations in case someone would like to have a look at them.
These simulations cannot be compared to a real world device, only show a rough approximation of the main principle involved.

I found that in these sims, the sticky spot appears not exactly at the end of the spiral, but some degrees before. And because of this, the motor worked the best (per input ratio) when the operation of the electromagnet was asymmetrical both in timing & field strength, so giving a greater pull for more time, and a smaller push for less. This may or may not be true in a real motor, however I found it interesting.

I would be interested to know about the differences regarding these things, when compared to an operating real world model of the motor.

Have a Good work!

You're right about the sticky spot. At the end, the magnetic lines finds its shortest way to the oposite pole, so there is in fact a strong counterforce at the very end of the magnet array. In the same way, it requires energy for the rotormagnet to enter the statormagnet again for a new turn. Sounds untrue, but as the magnetic fields at the end of a magnet array is going the oposite direction, there will be some repelling forces right there. This repelling forces will adds up to zero as there is the same effect after the magnet arrays end, where the rotor magnet will exit. So left, you have the solenoid and a sum of pure attraction.
I wouldn't bet a cent, but I like to believe Honk have something good going on here. Looking forward to see the results.

Vidar

You're right about the sticky spot. At the end, the magnetic lines finds its shortest way to the oposite pole, so there is in fact a strong counterforce at the very end of the magnet array. In the same way, it requires energy for the rotormagnet to enter the statormagnet again for a new turn.

Of course, I know I am right. I just wanted to see how much time it takes to get a reply on the mentioned things!

With other words, thanks for your reply & confirmation!

Yesterday I sent the Mumetal pieces forming the new high perm solenoid core for heat threating in a hydrogen owen.
I asked for maximum permeability and hopefully they'll reach 250000 if possible. When the pieces return I can finally test
the difference between ordinary Oriented Steel at ?=15000 versus Mumetal at ?=250000 to see the flux difference.
My new gaussmeter have probably arrived by then and I can test the face flux and also test the force gain in the wodden rig.

I've read that most flux is returned inside the Solenoid through the core itself because this is a lot better conductor than air.
This is why Solenoids have small levels of face flux on the outside of the core. It's simply because the core is not getting
saturated due to the very large airgap of a Solenoid. But using a high permeability core that saturates at a lower level (0.8T) will
allow for higher ouside face flux. When the core is getting more saturated, less flux can return inside the core material itself.

There's some other very interesting Magnetic Alloy materials that have great permeabilites at ?=1000000 and saturates at 0.57T.
Later on, if successful, I might have a core made to fit the motor. Perhaps it will increase the performance of the motor.
http://www.metglas.com/products/page5_1_2_6.htm

Yes, I wanted a gaussmeter capable of measuring both AC and DC fields up to at least 2 tesla.
And I wanted an attractive price to. Many gaussmeters at eBay is overpriced.

The one I bought at $240 handles AC and DC fields up to more than 3 teslas at very good precision.

@honk,

i think you maybe thinking in the wrong direction!  asimov, once depicted a world that was getting smarter by getting smaller, with more more power.  i think this is the wave of the future. smaller but still with the same power!  not that you are wrong, but i think, that you can benefit from looking at the concept even from a micro, standpoint.  there are alot less energy requirements from systems on this level.  and also alot less things to go wrong. just my thoughts, and some others!  think about it for a minute.  what if atomic powered devices fit on your wrist?  where is the major radiation problem?  how much radiation could be released from a device that was meant to run a wrist watch?  not much.  you see the point.  how much plutonium to run a car?  i guess not much really.  the problem is in consolidating enough to run los Angeles then you have enough to blow up alot of people..

the problem is getting people out of the mindset that this might be acceptable.  sorry i am not convinced that certain governments are of the same mindset.  so let's just hold onto the knowledge.  even though we have now discovered something even better, that doesn't have the same potential for damage to the environment strategically, however it has the ability to provide any one person with all the power needed to explode the planet.

do we release this knowledge?  hmmmm!

lol
sam