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Author Topic: TPU - General Discussion  (Read 240869 times)

Offline tao

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2007, 03:15:41 AM »
Here's a better explanation of the OPEN TPU.

EM

Bravo, that is a really good synopsis there EM!

And HIGHLY PLAUSIBLE!

(merely summarizing what you said)...

Using fast/sharp pulses in the 4 control coils to induce fast physical movement to the lower ring (and hence the vertical output coils).

The OU component being the facet of free and very sharp movement of the lower ring due to it's own magnetostriction response ;), it then is this free OU component that moves the vertical coils to and fro in the field of the permanent magnets. This also explains the two sets of white wires that show up in the middle of that open TPU and go to the output cap there, always wondered where those wires were coming from...

I likey...

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2007, 03:15:41 AM »

Offline EMdevices

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2007, 03:44:10 AM »
Oh my God, tao, check this out,

In the video he says he uses 6000 Hz

From the video it looks like the TPU has a diameter of about 16 cm

Circumference =  pi x 16 cm = 50.27 cm  =  0.503 meters

Now,

Assuming the approximate 3000 m/s acoustic speed in iron

wavelength@6khz = [ 3000 m/s ] / [ 6000 Hz ] = 0.5 meters


WOW  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o

Same result man,   he is using ONE FULL WAVELENGTH RESONANCE !!!!

What a confirmation, wow.  I'm hooked man.

EM

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Offline tao

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2007, 04:21:11 AM »
Oh my God, tao, check this out,

In the video he says he uses 6000 Hz

From the video it looks like the TPU has a diameter of about 16 cm

Circumference =  pi x 16 cm = 50.27 cm  =  0.503 meters

Now,

Assuming the approximate 3000 m/s acoustic speed in iron

wavelength@6khz = [ 3000 m/s ] / [ 6000 Hz ] = 0.5 meters


WOW  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o  :o

Same result man,   he is using ONE FULL WAVELENGTH RESONANCE !!!!

What a confirmation, wow.  I'm hooked man.

EM


Great minds..................

I was just about to guesstimate the diameter and measure against the 3000m/s myself, lol ;)...

Thanks for saving my time, hrmm, that seems like a PERFECT MATCH to the full wavelength resonance to me!  ;D

It is all just 'clicking' into place, it all fits. The kicks, having OU from a single wire, the frequencies mentioned by SM in his videos, the control coils perpendicular, everything.

I'm quite excited, to say the least.

Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2007, 04:22:59 AM »
@ EM

Congratulations, my friend!  I believe that you may have solved the piece of the puzzle, where SM says:

"The frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the collector coil."


AND

"HEY, did you know that the frequency is proportional to the speaker's circumference? it appears that the frequency should change with the circumference of the speaker."

So, if this hold true, one now knows how to determine the fundamental frequency.  It is a good start.  Makes finding F2x and F3x alot easier!  LOL   ;) 

I mentioned the math along time ago on my thread.  I believe it was called "directiviity" and it relates to speakers, if I recall.  You have already showed the math, using iron, and it sure seems to fit!!   :o  I mentioned iron along time ago also, but was quickly silenced by people quoting SM's copper stranded for the collectors, not iron.  But if it fits, ...  ;)

You may want to try your math with the larger TPU and see what frequency you come up with also, and see if it matches.

Edit:  Unless of course that is the F3x, then one works backwards to find the fundamental frequency as most here know.

Cheers,
Bruce


Offline BEP

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2007, 04:54:11 AM »
Following the same insanity....

If you lay the open TPU with the load connection South:

At SW, NW, NE and SE you have control coils (plate coils for the tubes)
wrapped over the control coils at NW and SE you have a grid coil (finer wire about 3.75 the inductance of the plate coil)

Coils at SW and NW are for the tubes at S
Coils at SE and NE are for the tubes at N

N & S hemispheres' coils are counterwound from each other (because feedback coils are usually counterwound? or each oscillator makes changes in the opposite direction?)

I'm thinking two separate blocking oscillators or magnetostrictive oscillators (either will follow resonance of the core AND the magnetic field environment) - not only to drive but also to limit.

STRIKE THIS>> And the bottom core/collector is a spiral wind to make maximum use of the magnetostriction effect.

I could go on but we'll see how that fits....

<realization>That is what the slit is for! To ALLOW for the expansion - How DUMB of me. The blasted thing is shiny black because that IS the normal color of annealed iron.</realization>

Sorry. I've already verified that what you say is actually happening - or could happen if that is how you build it. No OU here. And I do think you are right. The problem is I still think there is more to it but these should be solid basic operating principles.

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2007, 04:54:11 AM »
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Offline EMdevices

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2007, 05:12:53 AM »
Guys, this is a team effort and I have to say, we mentioned magnetostriction before, but for some reason never pursued it or got excited about it, at least I didn't.

At this point I would feel confident enough to say that we might have figured out the modality, the phenomena, the physics, if you will, that are at work in the TPU, and that is  ACOUSTIC RESONANCE induced through MAGNETOSTRICITON.

Now, the rest of the story needs to be figured out.  What do we do with a resonating ring?  With 4 coils off in phase by 90, 180, 270, 360?  (in the case of the open TPU at least)

How do we tie it all together?  Where is the energy coming from?  Schumann?  Quite possible Schumann.  We are resonating so low now, that we can couple into a harmonic of Schumann. 

I'm already experimenting and I realized a strange heating effect.   I previously used the same Blocking oscilator to resonate at around 5 kHz but there was hardly any heating effect.   (I can change the frequency by bringing a magnet into the proximity of the inductor)

EM


P.S.  You know what realy set me off today on this path?   I read about Surface Acoustic Wave (SAW) filters.  These are piezodevices, which use physical acoustic resonance and the piezoeffect to link back to electrical phenomena.  I said, that's it, the friking TPU is supposed to be magnetic, why can't it resonate by magnetostriciton.  I mean, even that wineing sound fits as a clue  (the small blue wraped TPU on the glass table makes that sound when turned off, the same like a toster when turned on)   Here's a link to SAW filters that I read today.  Look toward the botom and see how complex things can get when you merge two physical phenomena like acoustics and electricity.   http://www3.sympatico.ca/colin.kydd.campbell/
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 05:39:24 AM by EMdevices »

Offline tao

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2007, 05:35:08 AM »
Guys, this is a team effort and I have to say, we mentioned magnetostriction before, but for some reason never pursued it or got excited about it, at least I didn't.

At this point I would feel confident enough to say that we might have figured out the modality, the phenomena, the physics, if you will, that are at work in the TPU, and that is  ACOUSTIC RESONANCE induced through MAGNETOSTRICITON.

Now, the rest of the story needs to be figured out.  What do we do with a resonating ring?  With 4 coils off in phase by 90, 180, 270, 360?  (in the case of the open TPU at least)

How do we tie it all together?  Where is the energy coming from?  Schumann?  Quite possible Schumann.  We are resonating so low now, that we can couple into a harmonic of Schumann. 

I'm already experimenting and I realized a strange heating effect.   I previously used the same Blocking oscilator to resonate at around 5 kHz but there was hardly any heating effect.   (I can change the frequency by bringing a magnet into the proximity of the inductor)

EM

Answering one of you questions put forth: I think that if the Schumann in involved, you would tie into it by pulsing the drive coils (which are wrapped around the iron wire) at 7.8Hz or a harmonic of it, this COULD then cause an effect like that shown in Marco's dancing magnets, hence we would get a much larger magnetostriction effect and hence physical movement of the iron wire/core.

Then again, what if the OU isn't coming from the Schumann at all, but merely from the iron wire/core itself? Meaning the magnetostriction/physical movement of the iron wire/core when the key frequencies are applied to the Drive coil(s). SM talked about his KICKs, he talked about the movement of the filament, he talked about moving a wire through a magnetic field FAST or vice versa, he talked about applying a sharp ONE WAY pulse to a SIMPLE wire and how OU could be seen. So, where would the OU be coming into play? The OU would be coming from the FAST physical movement of the iron wire/coil as it is magnetostricted. As long at this iron wire/coil is in or near a magnetic field (the earth's, a permanent magnet, or a electromagnet), there should be additional induction into this wire from it's physical movement.

(Now let me read that and see if I made any sense, lol..........)

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2007, 05:35:08 AM »
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Offline Grumpy

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2007, 05:44:53 AM »
SM stated early on that there was "no iron" in the core of the TPU and that the core wires (collectors) are copper.

Offline EMdevices

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2007, 05:47:34 AM »
It makes a lot of sense tao,  like in the TPU schematic I posted that's what I was thinking.  It could be just that, fast motion of coils through a magnetic field.   And since the whole thing is supposed to vibrate anyway, any RETARDING effect from this induction,  will just resonate it some more  :)  Basicaly the resonating ring is free floating,  and you know what, it could be affected by GRAVITY.   Any free floating vibrating ring will be !!!!

Oh, and in the videos SM also says something about induction (after the blanked out portion in the UEC video towards the end of the tape)

@ Grumpy,  if that is true, then the iron wire is around the circumference.  It can work both ways.  Copper inside, Iron on the outside, or iron inside, copper around the outside.  :)

I'm excited now about the open TPU.  The magnetic beast !!!

EM

Offline tao

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2007, 05:48:43 AM »
SM stated early on that there was "no iron" in the core of the TPU and that the core wires (collectors) are copper.

He did indeed, multistranded no doubt.

But, considering the first TPU and the Open TPU don't seem to conform to SM's 'descriptive layout' for the TPU which he released, the same layout that describes the use of the multi-stranded copper, it seems likely that these first two TPUs might not use only copper... But of course, who really knows, right?

I mean, the Open TPU has some lamp-type wire on it, those would be the 4 red coils, yet, where is 'collector' that is perpendicular to 'controls'? It doesn't seem to be there. SM said that he made hundreds of TPUs. He also talked about using different materials for the collectors, and that he couldn't really talk about it, so again, who knows, right?

I'm with you Grumpy about the copper as a collector theory, because SM said it through Mannix, BUT, SM's whole descriptive layout, where he stated that copper was the collector, this layout just doesn't seem to jive with either of those first two TPUs.

So, considering what we know from Mannix via SM, and what we see in the videos, and knowing that SM is so hesitant to give us the ultimate keys to the TPU to protect his pension, it seems highly likely that our current search back in magnetostriction is a viable path for duplication of either of SM's first two TPUs...

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2007, 05:48:43 AM »
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Offline HopeForHumanity

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2007, 05:50:14 AM »
I have to get in here to say this.

WOW!

This hypothesis is just brilliant. I've never seen something go so smoothly mathematicaly or verbally with what SM has shown us.

Congrats! :)

Offline innovation_station

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2007, 05:53:00 AM »
hi there guys

i dont think there is an osc at all in the tpu  ;)

well we need our 3 freq gennys and an amp  and maybe some feedback?

ist


hummmm....


Offline tao

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2007, 05:58:52 AM »
It makes a lot of sense tao,  like in the TPU schematic I posted that's what I was thinking.  It could be just that, fast motion of coils through a magnetic field.   And since the whole thing is supposed to vibrate anyway, any RETARDING effect from this induction,  will just resonate it some more  :)  Basicaly the resonating ring is free floating,  and you know what, it could be affected by GRAVITY.   Any free floating vibrating ring will be !!!!

Oh, and in the videos SM also says something about induction (after the blanked out portion in the UEC video towards the end of the tape)

@ Grumpy,  if that is true, then the iron wire is around the circumference.  It can work both ways.  Copper inside, Iron on the outside, or iron inside, copper around the outside.  :)

I'm excited now about the open TPU.  The magnetic beast !!!

EM


I always thought that duplicating the Open TPU was the best idea, because that was the only one we could really SEE INTO ;).

Plus, I was always annoyed by the fact that SM's descriptive layout for his TPUs never quite matched this Open TPU, especially the part about the collector being multistranded copper and that it was perpendicular to the control coils, the problem of course being that there is no copper collector wire/coil perpendicular to the 4 control coils around the Open TPU, unless that copper collector was IN the lower black ring of the Open TPU, which aways seemed highly unlikely.

Good point about Gravity's interaction. As the iron coil/wire is physically moving due to the sharp magnetostriction, it is interacting with the permanet magnets in the Open TPU, with the Earth's magnetic field, and all the while Gravity is pulling against it's physical movement too, good point man. A lot of interactions going on there, surely there is ample room for OU...


EDIT: One more thing to add before I go to sleep. In my readings on magnetostriction, HEAT comes up quite a bit because it is a key byproduct of magnetostriction, due to the resultant EDDY CURRENTS created during the magnetostriction process, HRMMM, sure sounds TPUish, doesn't it?... I have also come to read that magnetostriction, when it happens at a specific material's key resonance, it can vibrate the material so violently that it ruptures the material or even explodes... HRMM, again TPUish, the whole 'don't tune to close to the key frequency' talk of SM...
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 08:58:57 AM by tao »

Offline BEP

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2007, 02:08:16 PM »
I always thought that duplicating the Open TPU was the best idea, because that was the only one we could really SEE INTO ;).

This is exactly why I've been concentrating on this one for the last few months. Attached is the layout I used. Yes, aluminum can be a good MS material - Now I think not good enough.

Heating? Indeed! Even when very little power goes in!

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Offline wattsup

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2007, 02:32:58 PM »
Hi you guys. Really first class.

So on the TPU you are discussing about...

What happens when you pass a magnet once over a wire? That's right. We all know this.

Now what happens when instead of moving a magnet over a wire, you move its field over a wire 5000 times per second?

Does Bearden ring a bell!

So what if all that is happening is the wrapped coils are energized and this shifts the four magnet fields to simply simulate a moving magnet.

The source is the magnets.

The metal ring is like an armature that evenly disperses the magnetic field around the TPU.

The movement of the magnet fields is by the coils shifting it.

The collector is the white wire over which the field moves. Looks like Litz to increase again the wire length. Longer wire means more juice.

The coils wrapped around the magnets are the initial energy source to the circuit. These coils could also be multistrand bifilar.

Just thinking out loud.

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Re: TPU - General Discussion
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2007, 02:32:58 PM »

 

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