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Author Topic: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power  (Read 570322 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« on: August 18, 2007, 10:39:57 PM »
Here is a message from user ravzz:


Hi Stefan,

I've tried opening a new topic for this but I couldnt.

Check the following videos:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vzTzqpp-Uk
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNJ_vjuO_ME
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1lScTsHBkQ
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiyfwWuA9gA
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nto66FTfdTg
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqSyTiPu8VI

For all the info on these videos you could go to

www.oupower.com

Discussions.......than hydrogen forum.


You could copy all the info i've posted there under the user name ravzz and post it here if need be.

Just thought i'd help as many people to replicate my WFC before im stopped again.


Regards,
ravzz

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Dyamios

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2007, 12:02:03 AM »
How many times is this going to be scrapped up off of the basement floor?

I don't want to be a pessimist or anything, but really, why is there any rhyme or reason to believe that pulsed (essentially AC) electricity will somehow fracture water molecules any better than regular DC. There is no electrical resonant frequency of water to be found. It physically does not exist.

H2O doesn't even vibrate in any electrical fashion, let alone has the capacity to hold resonant energy. The simple reaction occurring during electrolysis is merely extra electrons being transfered to form gaseous Hydrogen and Oxygen (diagrammed below):
H20 + e- -> H2 + O2

The reason there is less energy use is because of the minute gap between the electrodes. The smaller the gap, the less distance the electrons and ions have to move to form new molecules.

The reason the water heats up is because when the water molecules fall apart when extra electrons are supplied, the various atoms must migrate through the water itself to the various electrodes, where it finally forms the gaseous form. As these particles move, they bump into other molecules and atoms, and add entropy (in the form of heat) to the system. This is INEVITABLE and ALWAYS occurs no matter what kind of frequency is used. The less gap, the less chance for the particles to bump into each other, therefore creating less heat, but heat will ALWAYS be produced.

Therefore electrolysis can NEVER under ANY type of circumstance be more than 99% efficient.

Stanley Meyers had a flawed understanding of the process of electrolysis, and his theory was debunked by the patent office.

Electrolysis does not magically break apart water molecules wherever they stand. The particles must move extensively, and whilst doing so they always add entropy to the system.



I'm begging everyone who reads this: PLEASE learn the rudimentary science before running off go blindly believe somebody. Most, if not all, of the theories here are flawed in some basic way (it goes without saying that the laws of thermodynamics are excluded from this, as every theory violates this).


Enough of Stanley Meyers. He was a fraud. His theory was flawed. He was weighed, measured, and found guilty. What does it take to get people to realize that water is NOT an energy source. At most its an inefficient energy carrier.

Hydrogen is only the future of MOVING energy, NOT making it. Please people, understand this!


Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2007, 01:33:33 AM »
@Dyamios

What about this link?
LOW CURRENT ELECTROLYSIS OF WATER
Ph. M. Kanarev

http://www.guns.connect.fi/innoplaza/energy/story/Kanarev/electrolysis/index.html


Best

Offline Dyamios

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2007, 02:57:01 AM »
I read it through, and it doesn't really prove anything:
Quote
Conclusion

 

        Energy efficiency index of the low current electrolysis should be refined, but in any case it will be greater than 10, that?s why there is every reason to think that a way to production of inexpensive hydrogen from water and transition to hydrogen energetic is opened.

It's not terribly efficient, and its not near overunity. This is just a method of using less current to make hydrogen (less energy in general), which does make less heat, but also makes far less hydrogen:
Quote
generates small quantity of gases

What's your exact point of posting this?

This further proves my point that hydrogen is merely an energy *carrier* not a source! Its far more efficient to use batteries! The only reason to use hydrogen is because of its compressibility and use in combustion engines. But by the time you convert the electricity to hydrogen and back to kinetic motion, you've lost at least %50 of the original energy.


I still don't understand why there is so much research going into hydrogen technologies.


Offline rMuD

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2007, 03:21:07 AM »
there is so much reseach on it because it's a technology that is natural progression and cost effective to existing technology.  Meaning that we can retrofit the technology of the past 100 years to use a new fuel without a complete overhaul, as the migration to fuel cell, or to whatever power source comes up next. 

Meyers and others may have made this work, and even if they didn't this is a grass roots forum for people to try, and dream and hope maybe it did.  pulsed DC may work under the theory of charging a capacitor, need 300KV charge at 7mm to get it reach the breakdown voltage though, and I don't see anyone talking too much about it here. 

Everyone is going after HHO for 20-30% more effeciency..  I was talking to someone that compresses air thru a membrane that only allows Oxygen thru, and has simular results as these HHO companies are having, power conversion and emission reduction, 10x less grief possibly...

Mixing Aluminum and Gallium (Heat sink paste for Computers)  causes the aluminum not to skin, and gives off Hydrogen..  no oxygen though..  no other gases at all...  make H2, alumia (Alumia Oxide completely prepared for re-electrolysis) and gallium is re-usable with no conversion.  http://www.instructables.com/id/ECB3EDDF2FRVK4R/

I am more interested in this technology than most, as I have a gas hog, I get 2 Gallons to the mile.. to convert over to a Fuel Cell or magnetic flux or whatever bleeding edge technology would cost me $100k+  if not more.. dealing with weight differences, engineering etc...    where a Hydrogen Boost or HHO conversion solution costing me less than $5 or 10k    pay for it self in less than a year....


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2007, 03:21:07 AM »
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Offline ravzz

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2007, 10:11:27 AM »
Hi Dyamios.....youre free to air your views about physics and thermodynamics!!......have you heard about plasma electrolysis??



Japanese Hokkaido University experiment which achieved some mind boggling results and was also replicated by JL Naudin...

These guys went OU with the generation of Hydrogen. Their experiment and results link

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTgeneration.pdf

As per their conclusions: 'current efficiency' is 8000% to the input!!!


I'm not here to argue wether things work as per the preset laws of physics or thermodynamics but you need to keep an open mind to evolve and see if something actually works.......I'm and engineer and been taught that things dont work if you break the laws....well I know my laws...thank you.....I've been making cells for the last 8 years but now Ive got something that works......and if people want to replicate it they can im giving out info on how to do it.....if they dont want to.....fine by me!....im getting nothing nor losing any thing by this....Stan wanted to sell his units......well im not.......this is for the people who are already trying it out and who want to....

Now the reason why i wanted to post the replication info.......(Ive posted the following for Bob Boyce on oupower)....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its time we did something about the environmental mess the world is in.....its accelerating by the year and it wouldnt be long before that the powers be would realize that most of these changes are irreversible ......Vanishing Glaciers......melting polar caps.....Europe has seen the hottest summers in living memory.......and now Asia is going through the worst floods in the living memory.......we are heading for a disaster and have already reached a point of no return with the fossil fuel addiction.......time we make ourselves count....by helping others to make this technology feasible and easy to replicate......whatever small contribution.....no matter how much ever small to improve the air we breathe would go a long way for our childrens future......


We need people to know this side of science before its too late.......look at the change in the environment in the last 100 years......in the garb of development were ruining the world we live in for the future generations and we are shown a picture of development as prosperity.....actual fact being more the prosperity more we ruin the environment for our creature comforts......its a vicious cycle....we could introduce the alternate science at places where its hurting the environment the most atleast in a small way....

Bob lets see how they take this experiment and what they make of it...I wouldnt be surprised if some hooter comes onto the forum and starts rubbishing the work to make atleast a few people stay away from experimenting this setup....

I'm just hoping that the risk im taking in teaching people how to make this expt work wouldnt be for nothing!! I've been through some harassment before and can go through some more if its for the greater good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Guys ive posted all the info needed for replication if you want to or not is upto you!.....well my work here is done!!

GOOD LUCK!!

Offline ravzz

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2007, 01:10:56 PM »
Tha JLN Labs Replication of plasma electrolysis Link:


http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cfr/diycfr/cfrg01.htm


and quite a few others who have replicate the same......


http://jlnlabs.imars.com/cfr/index.htm

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2007, 01:10:56 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline wizkycho2

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2007, 01:28:40 PM »
Hi Dyamios.....youre free to air your views about physics and thermodynamics!!......have you heard about plasma electrolysis??



Japanese Hokkaido University experiment which achieved some mind boggling results and was also replicated by JL Naudin...

These guys went OU with the generation of Hydrogen. Their experiment and results link

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTgeneration.pdf

As per their conclusions: 'current efficiency' is 8000% to the input!!!


I'm not here to argue wether things work as per the preset laws of physics or thermodynamics but you need to keep an open mind to evolve and see if something actually works.......I'm and engineer and been taught that things dont work if you break the laws....well I know my laws...thank you.....I've been making cells for the last 8 years but now Ive got something that works......and if people want to replicate it they can im giving out info on how to do it.....if they dont want to.....fine by me!....im getting nothing nor losing any thing by this....Stan wanted to sell his units......well im not.......this is for the people who are already trying it out and who want to....

Now the reason why i wanted to post the replication info.......(Ive posted the following for Bob Boyce on oupower)....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its time we did something about the environmental mess the world is in.....its accelerating by the year and it wouldnt be long before that the powers be would realize that most of these changes are irreversible ......Vanishing Glaciers......melting polar caps.....Europe has seen the hottest summers in living memory.......and now Asia is going through the worst floods in the living memory.......we are heading for a disaster and have already reached a point of no return with the fossil fuel addiction.......time we make ourselves count....by helping others to make this technology feasible and easy to replicate......whatever small contribution.....no matter how much ever small to improve the air we breathe would go a long way for our childrens future......


We need people to know this side of science before its too late.......look at the change in the environment in the last 100 years......in the garb of development were ruining the world we live in for the future generations and we are shown a picture of development as prosperity.....actual fact being more the prosperity more we ruin the environment for our creature comforts......its a vicious cycle....we could introduce the alternate science at places where its hurting the environment the most atleast in a small way....

Bob lets see how they take this experiment and what they make of it...I wouldnt be surprised if some hooter comes onto the forum and starts rubbishing the work to make atleast a few people stay away from experimenting this setup....

I'm just hoping that the risk im taking in teaching people how to make this expt work wouldnt be for nothing!! I've been through some harassment before and can go through some more if its for the greater good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Guys ive posted all the info needed for replication if you want to or not is upto you!.....well my work here is done!!

GOOD LUCK!!

Dyiamios should know that everything in universe is capable of resonating, even the energy itself.
Let's talk about laws:
Still in hydrogen production (by means of electrolysis of water) science is using Faraday's law that uses only current strenght as relevant for ammount hydrogen produced.
This Faraday law can be seen here in action
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1245.0.html        130W

But this pulsed (probably resonating) setup proves that Faradays law can not be applied with pulsed DC:
production of O2 H2 is allmost identicall with 1A as I am producing at 30A.

@Ravzz, can you please give some more data (voltage, frequency...)
Are Coils needed ?

igor knitel

Offline ravzz

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2007, 02:37:57 PM »
Hi Igor,

I've posted a lot of data on the following link...theres everything you need to replicate in the discussion page

http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1602



incase this link doesnt work then go here to the main page for hydrogen forums

http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1


then go to 'Ravi's Meyer Replication - Tap water to H2'


Most of the questions you might have would have already been answered there....incase you need to know something else post it here or on the oupower forum so that I wouldnt have to answer the same thing again.





Offline ravzz

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2007, 03:09:49 PM »
Hi Igor,

You seem to be using brute force el'sys....instead of 5 V try going down to 2 V which is practically sufficient in this kind of electrolysis..... or you could try Bob Boyce's devices......theyre pretty efficient...


http://pesn.com/2007/01/08/9500445_Bob_Boyce_Electrolyzer_Plans/

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Bob_Boyce_Electrolyzer_Plans


Theyre all on public domain.....free to replicate.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2007, 03:09:49 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TheCell

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2007, 11:08:43 PM »
Quote:
It's not terribly efficient, and its not near overunity. This is just a method of using less current to make hydrogen (less energy in general), which does make less heat, but also makes far less hydrogen:
//

@Dyamios
please have a look at the videos ravzz posted on youtube.

Ravi: (oupower.com)
I would be for one thing very impressed if you could generate anywhere close to the outputs mentioned with pulsed 12 Volts and HALF an AMP!!
________
(I hope he is honest)

And I would like to add: it would never be possible to gain such a gas - output with 12 Volts and 0,5 Amps straight current!

No its not near overunity, because if water is a fuel , the method of extraction of hydrogen and oxygen is more likely using a catalyst.(So many hints in the internet)

The Stanley Meyers WFC has now been replicated by Dave Lawton and Ravi.
John Aarons is using the brute force method, the bubbles of his cell are completely different from the meyer cells replicaters.

If you look at one video where ravi is using 1 amps , and the wires get hot, so the 1 amps are not the amperage that goes through the cell.
The main function of the electronic is a resonant circuit with capacitor and inductance in series.
So if the circuit is in resonance , there is allmost no resistance , therefore the high current, with a maximum of voltage across each the capacitor and inductance.
This high voltage (only achieved, when the circuit is in resonance) is breaking the chemical bonds. So noone speaks of the resonance of water.

Maybe a better circuit would be like the horizontal deflection unit used in TV's.
This circuit puts out a only one direction voltage peek (3kV) to the capacitor, and there is far less input power needed.Here the voltage of the capacitor depends on the mark space ratio.

@ravi
please post the whole circuit on oupouwer.com (I am missing somethin in D14.pdf)
If there is nothing to add the cells must discharge by themselfes?



Offline h20power

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2007, 11:34:28 PM »
Hi Everyone, It is good to see that this technology is going strong. If one want to disprove this type of type of technology you are going too have a hard time in that Daniel Dingel has been doing it for just about 40 years now, and a look at his technology show its simular to Stanley Meyer's. http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&langpair=de%7Cen&u=http://www.freie-energie.net/index/freie_energie/wasserautos/dingel_watercar/dingel_watercar.htm&prev=/language_tools
He has been doing this for a very long time.

The IMF and the World Bank have an agreement with the government of the Philippines not to get into this type of technology. For more informantion on the big pitcure for us all watch: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331&q=zeitgeist&total=662&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3
and read this; http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/wbimf/facts.html .

There is a reason why this technology is not wanted by the IMF and World Bank, it would totally mess up there plans for us all, for right now they are busy parting out Iraq as I type. Imgine what would happen if you dump free energy onto the market? With this technology if one lost there job, the lights would never be cut off and they would still be able to go anywhere they wanted to go (provided they have a car). This technology does just that, it free's mankind of the money manipulators, the banks and IMF related interest. The more the technology spreads the more people would become self sustaining. This technology trully free's the whole of mankind, and they wouldn't be able to have their 'One World Government' if that happens.

Get wise too what is really going on in our world and open your eyes with what I put out, all the information just provided too you.
Only then will you make the conection of this technology and the IMF and World Bank, and why it is being fought at every turn.


Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2007, 11:59:21 PM »

@h20power

IMF, world bank...
liberate mankind of the money manipulators....
You can say that again...

I'm in touch with a French inventor who has mastered the hydrogen on demand  process.
I will say more about this when the next issue of the (French version of) NEXUS magazine is published (beginning september).

Best

Offline ravzz

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2007, 07:58:12 AM »
Thecell :


I started off with the same circuit as Dave's in the beginning.....but had to replace a few components with higher wattages as the failed....I think the bigger cells you build you might have to increase the wattages....as per D14 they are 0.25watt but I would advice you to go in for 1 watt for the 100 ohm resistors being used and 0.5 watt in both 220 and 820 ohm resistors.....thats if you are trying to build a 9 tube 9 inch length setup like mine but if its as per Dave's 6 tube 5" length tubes then his D14, Pg 7 circuit should be Ok.

The D14 setup with inductors will be the most efficient of the lot. It on the new updated D14.pdf and not the old one. Inductors are very very important.

I still have no clue why the WFC leads got burnt at 12 V   1 Amp input to the freq generator. Trying to make a few modifications.....would post the results as soon as its done.


Ravi





Offline wizkycho2

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Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2007, 09:13:59 AM »
Quote:
...
If you look at one video where ravi is using 1 amps , and the wires get hot, so the 1 amps are not the amperage that goes through the cell.
The main function of the electronic is a resonant circuit with capacitor and inductance in series.
So if the circuit is in resonance , there is allmost no resistance , therefore the high current, with a maximum of voltage across each the capacitor and inductance.
This high voltage (only achieved, when the circuit is in resonance) is breaking the chemical bonds. So noone speaks of the resonance of water.
@ravi
please post the whole circuit on oupouwer.com (I am missing somethin in D14.pdf)
If there is nothing to add the cells must discharge by themselfes?


@thecell

Just the opposite. When circuit is in resonance (means source is in resonance with load) load has HIGH impendance
and very weak current is flowing from source to the Load although strong currents are flowing within the Load itself.
(look at the rotoverter - it is the same "kind" of resonance)

"...So if the circuit is in resonance , there is allmost no resistance ..." is wrong should be
"...So if the circuit is in resonance , there is high resistance ..."

once again source "feels" that Load (cell) has high resistance, but the resistance within load is low.

Ravi explained in one of his posts that he used SS wire to connect tubes. SS wire has 100 times higher resistance
than Cu and the thickness of those wires as you can see on video are not so thick, so wire burns.

Allthogh Ravzz is meassuring current 0.5A this is RMS currnet or effective current which is good to calculate input power
but peak currents are certanly stronger than that - I would estimate 5A. and there is another reason why high resistance
SS wire burns.

I think that ravzz cell is much more efficient if he would use Cu wires to the tubes.

So everything seems in order... the cell realy seems to be working in OU.

Coils in D14 due to frequency cca 21kHz do not allow cell to discharge.
Cell (and coils) may discharge only when there is a pause on first oscilator cca 100Hz, and that is why there is diode (I would use 4 or 5 in parallel).

reagrds
wiz

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Stanley Meyer replication with low input power
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2007, 09:13:59 AM »

 

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