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Author Topic: US #4,936,96 Stan Meyers Patent Expired and FREE to ALL  (Read 31222 times)

Offline Farlander

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Re: US #4,936,96 Stan Meyers Patent Expired and FREE to ALL
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2008, 10:47:26 PM »
What happened to a thread about Meyer's patent?

Of course, one can never prove anything, only say that it happened a certain way before and assume it will happen again (i.e. statistics.)

In Meyer's case, there is no hard evidence, his device is lost, and so far I can't walk into Kmart and buy a fuel cell.

However, there is high reason to believe that his technology, if legitimate, has been suppressed by third parties.  Also, why would the U.S. patent office give a patent to somebody for a technology that had no value?

What would be nice is more people coming forward with their prototypes and plans for replication.

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Offline Feynman

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Re: US #4,936,96 Stan Meyers Patent Expired and FREE to ALL
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2008, 11:40:49 PM »
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 12:11:39 AM by Feynman »

Offline Inventor81

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Re: US #4,936,96 Stan Meyers Patent Expired and FREE to ALL
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2008, 07:53:19 AM »
Inventors are given plenty of patents every day that have no practical value. The patent does not require that it be able to run a car. If it's a hydrogen producing device, there is no liters per second per watt that it has to put out to get a patent approval.

It just has to be novel, i.e. different, and non-obvious to someone in the field.

Both of those get trounced on daily. There's a patent relating to some work I'm doing - a guy patented IN 2005!!!!!! "means of producing an image on a distant surface". It involved film, an image producing liquid crystal panel, or other image producing device, a light source, and a plurality of optical elements to focus light onto a distant surface so as to reproduce the still or moving image upon said surface.

Sounds like he just patented every kind of projector there is.

I bet he's just rolling in the royalties.

A patent is just paper. The proof is in the pudding.

If Meyer had what he said he had, all he needed was to make half a dozen and ship them to folks, and he'd have been rolling in the dough. Instead, he hit the local media and showed them an aquarium bubbler and a car with a hidden gas tank.

HOWEVER. I (and others) have a circuit dumping 19 kilojoules per mole of water (or hydrogen... 1:1 molar ratio, 1:.5 for oxygen) instead of the textbook 250 kilojoules per mole.

Looks not a damn thing like meyer's cell. Hell, doesn't even have metal in it.

Mwuah ha ha ha! Figure that one out yet?

Anyhow, I'll have a youtube video up in a few weeks once I have some performance numbers that I can stand firmly on, in a vehicle, vs. on a bench. Also upping the size and power so I can put out 100% HHO for idle power instead of gas. Have to work out all the ECU input spoofing as well, so I can cut fuel down and get visible mileage gains. Loads of work ahead, but the proof, again, is in the pudding.

Do you guys like raisins and cinnamon?

Offline Feynman

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Re: US #4,936,96 Stan Meyers Patent Expired and FREE to ALL
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2008, 08:32:42 AM »
So are you going to publish the details open-source ?

Offline Feynman

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Re: US #4,936,96 Stan Meyers Patent Expired and FREE to ALL
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2008, 08:51:59 AM »
Okay, I am going to do some calculations to see how all this fits together.  You said a 13.2x increase in HHO production off "textbook" COP.   The best HHO generators on youtube are about 2L/min  and I am being generous there.

Based on this figure (2L/min), a 13.2x increase in COP would give you 26.4L/min.  Does this sound about right? If you are serious, this is nothing short of a breakthrough.  I hope you are serious and not playing games or fucking around.

I will continue regardless, because I want to examine the possibility of "idling" a car engine off the setup you say you've got going. According to the document, High-efficiency series-cell electrolyzer, from June 2006,  the author claims idling a small car engine would consume 3000LPH of HHO, which would come out to a demand of 50L/min.

So your production figure is short of the requirement to idle a small engine.  However, given the complete lack of data here, it is entirely possible it takes only 25L/min to idle a car engine.    So I think this is possible, dependent upon liters per minute of production. 

Estimated Production: 26.4L/min
Estimated Demand: 50L/min
Possible: Yes

And if your cell does not have metal in it, I think it is possible it works ultrasonically. Perhaps you can post schematics, a picture, a description, etc.

« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 09:26:21 AM by Feynman »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US #4,936,96 Stan Meyers Patent Expired and FREE to ALL
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2008, 08:51:59 AM »
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Offline radiant_energy

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Re: US #4,936,96 Stan Meyers Patent Expired and FREE to ALL
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2008, 02:06:05 PM »
I do not know if in this thread you checked already this video


Offline Inventor81

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Re: US #4,936,96 Stan Meyers Patent Expired and FREE to ALL
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2008, 03:09:07 PM »
By my current calculations we're dumping 18 kilojoules per mole of hydrogen produced (liters per minute does not matter... it's liters per joule...)

a fellow researcher has a cell burning about 430 watts, and over the course of about 15 seconds gets .5 liters. That's just over 6 kilojoules. 6 kilojoules per half liter goes to 18 kilojoules per 1.5 liters, since 18 grams of water (one mole) will yield a mole of H2, and a half mole of O2, at STP that's 1 liter of H2 and a half liter of O2. I'm neglecting the .01 grams or so of water vapor required to saturate a liter and a half of air. As I understand it, H2O vapor is quite a bit less soluble in HHO than in air, but I'm going for the worst case scenario... .01 grams does not make up for 230 missing kilojoules.

So, by my calculations, a 100 horsepower engine would need a 400 amp alternator dumping all its output into a cell to provide all the fuel for the engine to run at full tilt. that's about 9 horsepower worth of alternator. So you turn a 100 horsepower engine into a 91 horsepower engine, but you can run it on water. If you're concerned about a 9 peak horsepower loss, then you've got more wrong with you than worrying about gas prices.

Based on materials cost and time available I've scaled things down to run a small Briggs and Stratton engine. I believe it's a 4 horsepower model, horizontal shaft. I'm waiting on a new magneto for it, but I have a spare alternator (65 amp) that I'll be putting on it. 65 amps @ 14 volts  =  910 watts. using the same ratio as above, you can see I'll be producing 16 horsepower worth of hydrogen (about 12 kilojoules, or .05 moles per second...) This is MORE than enough HHO to run the engine at full power, so I will likely have to gear down the alternator a bit. I've also got to work out a carb system that will allow me to vary the amount of HHO more quickly than a change in current allows (there's tons of bubbles released from electrolysis, so the "throttle response" is limited by the time it takes the bubbles to rise and pop).

I will be posting the details of the functioning, but the cell itself will remain relatively secret for the time being. I intend on selling them, assuming it works, for about 20% over cost, which right now is about 100 bucks per cell, all told, including all the tubing and switches and wire. If the briggs works, then I'll be happy to disclose anything at all - but there's already a cell out there that does this. Mine is just an improvement on that cell, that reduces maintenance and eliminates the need for a bubbler or line dryer to keep water from getting sucked into the engine. It should also work on tap water, without any significant addition of electrolyte. I will definitely keep you posted, but the details of the cell construction that I'll be keeping temporarily secret are NOT what makes all the hydrogen. It's a bit like building a plane and keeping the location and type of grease fittings secret, and giving away blueprints for the engine.

Far be it from me to tuck something away in a closet and keep the world from seeing relatively cheap energy, but I dare anyone else on this forum to challenge my decision in keeping it under wraps for a bit, and for looking at making a little money to help pay off my house. Everyone deserves to be paid for their time and effort, and I'm attempting to balance that with making this available to everyone else. Once the video is up on youtube I'll post a link, but according to my calculations, one of Zero's cells is operating in this efficiency range.

435 watts

14.5 seconds

.5 liters.


(watts * seconds)

Rock on.

I can tell you right now that it's a capacitive breakdown event. Think about avalanche diodes. It's like a plasma, in that it's charged, but it's room temperature, and a solid. So, they have a funny name for it - avalanche. One electron knocks free another, and after the collision they both gain enough energy from the electric field to knock off a few more each... it builds... into an avalanche. Small current in from the battery, same current back out, but in the electrolyte, those extra electrons are consumed by the hydrogen to produce neutrally charged H2. (and by the O2).

This should only happen if there is a catalytic site for this to occur... i.e. the cheater/robber plates (neutral plates... look up some electroplating info... they use these on occasion to limit total cell voltage drop, etc., not just in electrolysis)

It's a nice catalytic site for the avalanched electrons to collect and combine with hydrogen and oxygen, and the plate itself is a low-resistance current shunt for these electrons to jump through, maintaining their kinetic energy.

I have a feeling that JLN's Bingo Fuel reactor... with a thermal plasma generated underwater... is probably a bit less efficient than this, since alot of energy is going into joule heating of the plasma, and the water, rather than into actually making hydrogen. Also, only a small volume of water is involved in the actual reaction at any point in time.

DC baby. Rocks my world.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: US #4,936,96 Stan Meyers Patent Expired and FREE to ALL
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2008, 03:09:07 PM »
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Offline DanPike

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Re: US #4,936,96 Stan Meyers Patent Expired and FREE to ALL
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2013, 05:24:51 PM »
In June of 2007, the fundamental "Methods" patent of Stanley Meyer (US #4,936,961)  expires, finally placing this technology into the public domain in the United States.


Not sure if this includes the other patent utilizing Laser energy to FURTHER increase yield.

Replications starting to pop up around the globe !


As LITTLE current flow as possible according to Meyer... less current = less power input

NO ELECTROLYTES, to CUT current and Cut corosion too, distilled water BEST

NO Magical Frequency

-All about water acting as dielectric, PREVENTING current flow.
-High Voltage circuit step charges water cell as giant capacitor
-Voltage SPIKES step voltage upward in water cell.
-Catastrophic VOLTAGE Breakdown of water, NO CURRENT
-HV Chokes further STOP Current
-HV Diode causes unidirectional pulses upon water, alowing charge build up
-Circuit as whole electrically TUNED to resonate: Water Capacitance, HV Choke   
    Inductance, Transformer Inductance. DO THE CALCULATIONS, TUNE YOUR CIRCUIT
-Simple HV Circuits work BETTER than fancy ones... JUST TUNE THE HV SIDE of ckt
-555 / FET / Transformer ckts HAVE worked
-Feedback PLL ckt NOT necessary... only helps maintain stable output


Be the NEXT recreation !

One correction error would be the "magical frequency" is the pulse generated to resonate with the frequency of the water molecule (zero point energy). In one of Stans demonstrations, it states he is using a pulse generator, generating a pulse of around 20khz. Once in resonance with the water molecule (zero point energy), the high voltage low amperage can take over and fracture the bonds of the water molecule with ease. That is the only main difference between conventional electrolysis and Stans method of pulsing to fracture. While the conventional method uses shit loads of watts to break the bonds, and usually needs an added ingredient in the water to ionize it, which results in less power out than power put it, Stans method uses resonance by pulsing and the right frequency and can use around 10 watts to fracture the water bonds. This is the same principle when you rub your wet finger around the rim of a wine glass half full of water. If you rub to fast, there is no sound. You can rub faster and faster, using more and more energy and only emit small amounts of sound from the friction, which is akin to the conventional method of electrolysis. BUT if you rub your finger around at the right speed, in resonance to the wine glass and how much water is inside, the sound will get louder and louder and louder, as long as you keep in resonance, if you speed up or slow down, the sound will go, which is akin to stans method of pulsation and fracture. :)


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