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Author Topic: Magnetic imbalance wheel  (Read 24593 times)

vikingdread

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Magnetic imbalance wheel
« on: July 09, 2007, 11:17:46 PM »
1. The magnets slide along the non-ferro spokes of the wheel, but inward motion is limited by stoppers
2. The wheel itself is metallic so the magnets attract themselves to it
3. The green semi-circle with the opening in it is magnetic shielding
4. The 2 magnets on the left push some magnets inwards causing an imbalance
5. The wheel turns because of the larger weight on the right side

(http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1163/magneticimbalancewheelhb1.gif)
By vikingdread at 2007-07-09
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xnonix

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2007, 11:24:57 PM »
Sorry to say, but this doesn't work.
I made this idea long ago in wm2d and the system stops very quickly. You can prove yourself.
The idea is good if you make the system with magnetic pulses (you need electricity for this) but the power in is much more than the power out.
Anyway the idea can be modified in another ways.

Sorry for the news,  :-\
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vikingdread

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2007, 11:30:02 PM »
Hi xnonix,

Thanks for the reply!

Will the magnets on the left eventually be trapped between the 2 repulsing magnets?

What if the design only had one repulsing magnet on the left?
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chrisC

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2007, 11:30:16 PM »
Cool! At least the animation explains the function. Friction may be the deciding factor?

Thanks

chrisC
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xnonix

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2007, 11:34:37 PM »
Quote from: vikingdread on July 09, 2007, 11:30:02 PM
Hi xnonix,

Thanks for the reply!

Will the magnets on the left eventually be trapped between the 2 repulsing magnets?

What if the design only had one repulsing magnet on the left?

The problem is directionallity of the flux.
when the magnet is aproaching then the fixed magnet is repelling it braking the wheel. The thing is to repel it in the right moment, when they are facing thenselves. That why I suggested a pulse electromagnet (But this is not OU).
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vikingdread

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2007, 11:39:00 PM »
No, I don't think friction is a problem here. The wheel is turning on a hub, the green shielding does not touch the wheel anywhere.

I think the problem might be a situation where magnets on the spokes get "caught" between the magnetic fields of the 2 repulsing magnets on the left.

Perhaps it works with just 1 repulsing magnet.

The trick should be this:

The force of the weight of the magnets on the right side of the wheel should be larger than the drag caused by the repulsing magnets on the left side...
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vikingdread

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2007, 11:42:15 PM »
Quote from: xnonix on July 09, 2007, 11:34:37 PM
Quote from: vikingdread on July 09, 2007, 11:30:02 PM
Hi xnonix,

Thanks for the reply!

Will the magnets on the left eventually be trapped between the 2 repulsing magnets?

What if the design only had one repulsing magnet on the left?

The problem is directionallity of the flux.
when the magnet is aproaching then the fixed magnet is repelling it braking the wheel. The thing is to repel it in the right moment, when they are facing thenselves. That why I suggested a pulse electromagnet (But this is not OU).

I understand. So what if there were only one repelling magnet on the left and just a tiny hole in the shielding so that there's only repulsion when two magnets almost exactly face eachother?
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aparodox2003

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2007, 05:11:48 AM »
I've thought about this setup before as well, the problem i incured was that the magnents give off a mushroom shape repultion/attraction. The wheel stops rotating because of the resistance of the magnent, I havent tried sheilding with only a small whole but i imagine it would have the same effect and the wheel would go nowhere. The stationary magnent would push the one on the wheel away before it could push it far enough on the spoke so that the garavity on the wieghts on the other side of the wheel can pull it up. Basically you need pulsed intervals of magnetism. But if you find a way to get it to work i congratulate you.
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mapsrg

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2007, 02:43:39 AM »
This idea is the start of a journey...even mechanical linear motion along the spoke will not work....What if we have rotation instead? Imagine a large wheel with smaller wheels mounted around its circumference.the smaller wheels are made to rotate buy magnetic repulsion to give the same effect of imbalance using external fixed magnets.
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RebeLLz

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2007, 05:10:27 PM »
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mapsrg

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2007, 11:13:58 PM »
rebellz...is this your setup?it looks like it can be adapted ...the concept illustrated had merit....done this as well but not as professional looking
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mapsrg

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2007, 11:26:32 PM »
my version.Magnetic Gravity Wheel.Smaller wheels mounted on a larger wheel and repelled into paths by magnets so as to cause a continuous imbalance.2 are fixed repelling magnets .1 are repelling magnets mounted on small wheels.T are the position the smaller wheels rotate due to repulsion and cause continuous unbalance.Small wheels @100-200 diameter depending on number used.P is the path taken of rotated smaller wheels as the larger wheel rotates.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2008, 12:33:14 AM by mapsrg »
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wattsup

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2007, 02:49:41 PM »
@vikingdrea

Just to give you some other ideas, here's one concept I drew back in Nov 2006.

But my next idea is what is catching my interest. This idea uses normal available linear motion devices and control. I think this idea deserves a look.

If nobody does this, well, one day, when I have time, I will make my Linear Motion Wheel. Again I'm so sure this will work, that if anyone can do the consumption estimate using 40 lbs per bar, I would be curious. I will be using 3 linear motion bars. Imagine 3 separate lines cross-crossing at 60 degrees with the ability of immediate displacement of a weighted platform. The linear motion system can move up or down with very heavy loads. So imagine such loads at a continuous imbalance. The linear motion can have infinite positions of weight extension or retraction thus providing a variable motive force. The question would then be can linear motion displace enough weight to turn a generator and produce more power then the wheel will consume. Or put another way. Could I get more than 1 hp out of the shaft with less than 750 watts.

The linear motion type as drawn and animated below requires only activation at 6 o'clock until it moves upwards and I figure it must be held for 12 degrees thereafter per the rpm rate. The drawing is simplified to show an outer support structure would be from the outside and each linear motion shaft would be separate and angled at 60%. All you would require is three linear motion bars to do this.

I think there is some merit to this idea. A fully controllable rotary motive force without any BEMF. Or very little. The efficiency per HP produced should be good.

But again this is only at concept stage.
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ring_theory

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2007, 04:56:55 PM »
Ok. fine works guys.
I can only see one thing that might assist this idea. Ok gravity flows vertical. strait down. one thing i see the same in all of these is that the repulsing side magnet is lined up to oppose the moving magnet it is repelling strait on like this S---N> <N---S. This only uses the repulsion to repulse it on it's shaft directly away. were on a moving radius and in essence we are just sliding weight to a position where it is least resistant to the other side of the fulcrum. Lets say we assist the lifting by placing the magnet vertical as to oppose gravity while repulsing it to the desired location. this should make these systems usable, centrifugal forces will return the 
inner magnets to the outer ring of device no need to pull or attract them. one side of the wheel is gravity powered the other is repulsing up and in. changing the fulcrum of the lever.

@vikingdread

add another magnet between your existing two and go vertical with the three driving magnets and get rid of the attracting magnets. 

@RebeLLz 

same advice tip your opposing magnets vertical and get rid of the attracting magnets. Add more sliders and longer slide. i also think this setup could be downsized. it must weigh a ton?

@mapsrg

Caged? if this was like a caged bearing and the balls were magnetized with shorter opposing magnetic fields on the inner and outer ring as to tumble the fields of the ball bearings. It has the potential to be a planetary motor! 

@wattsup

all that blind sided me and that's hard to do! You rock! i like the addition of springs. however the same advice applies. vertical and remove the attraction side.
Basically what your doing with the springs are affirming what i would term a "centrifugal moment". What the drive or opposing magnets are doing is interrupting the centrifugal moment. This one will likely self start and resist a load as well as work on a horizontal plane. 

@ all
 great ideas! If you have problems with it running a short period and then you lose the centrifugal moment. reverse the fields of the opposing magnets and sliders. if your currently using N to N switch them to S to S. The planet is a big polar magnet gravity is the result of it. gravity will reflect the corresponding pole.

Good luck in your en devours 8)
P.S Be careful!! Be prepared for flying parts! build it triple redundant or don't build it at all! THINGS HAPPEN VERY FAST IN MAGNETICS!       
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 05:18:00 PM by ring_theory »
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mapsrg

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Re: Magnetic imbalance wheel
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2007, 08:30:30 PM »
not caged.in the diagram the smaller circles are smaller wheels or discs mounted on a larger wheel or disc.these are repelled into a path that results in imbalance by external magnets,2.
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