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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: tak22 on April 22, 2007, 12:17:33 AM

Title: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on April 22, 2007, 12:17:33 AM
William N. BARBAT - US Patent Application # 2007/0007844 - January 11, 2007

Self-Sustaining Electric-Power Generator Utilizing Electrons of Low Inertial Mass to Magnify Inductive Energy

http://rexresearch.com/barbat/barbat.htm (http://rexresearch.com/barbat/barbat.htm)


Abstract

Electrical oscillations in a metallic "sending coil" radiate inductive photons toward one or more "energy-magnifying coils" comprised of a photoconductor or doped semiconductor coating a metallic conductor, or comprised of a superconductor. Electrons of low inertial mass in the energy-magnifying coil(s) receive from the sending coil a transverse force having no in-line backforce, which exempts this force from the energy-conservation rule. The low-mass electrons in the energy-magnifying coil(s) receive increased acceleration proportional to normal electron mass divided by the lesser mass. Secondarily radiated inductive-photon energy is magnified proportionally to the electrons' greater acceleration, squared. E.g., the inductive-energy-magnification factor of CdSe photoelectrons with 0.13.times. normal electron mass is 59.times.. Magnified inductive-photon energy from the energy-magnifying coil(s) induces oscillating electric energy in one or more metallic "output coil(s)." The electric energy output exceeds energy input if more of the magnified photon-induction energy is directed toward the output coil(s) than is directed as a counter force to the sending coil. After an external energy source initiates the oscillations, feedback from the generated surplus energy makes the device a self-sustaining generator of electric power for useful purposes.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: bitRAKE on April 22, 2007, 12:40:16 AM
Very intriguing...

PDF: http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat20070007844.pdf
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on April 24, 2007, 05:44:37 AM
 :o The Barbat patent is an absolutely incredible document  :o

It was my birthday yesterday and I asked for nothing, and my family and friends honored my wishes. Instead I read this patent non-stop like it was the greatest novel of the century! Please read this because if you're like me and follow virtually every significant event on this forum you'll recognize a level of brilliance comparable to Tesla.

Everyone here that has wound a coil or tinkered with electronics, or desperately wanted to, will find inspiration in the sheer simplicity of Barbat's generator.

Please take the time to download the PDF, skim it first to get a sense of the concept, read it front to back, then come back here with your best idea for a replication attempt.

Down with the complexity, up with the simplicity, and may the low-mass electrons power our future!

Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Thaelin on July 04, 2007, 10:50:20 PM
   How conveniently it was removed..... :o

sugra
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: dani1 on July 04, 2007, 11:03:11 PM
No, sugra. Copy/Paste in the Patent Number 20070007844
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Thaelin on July 04, 2007, 11:09:28 PM
 :-\

hey worked that time. Last time said it had been removed. ??

The photo sensiv layer is what interests me. What is it made of.

the rest, no prob.

sugra
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on July 04, 2007, 11:26:56 PM
@sugra

There are 3 receiving coil methods in this patent: superconductors (too expensive), photoconductive materials (very difficult to find ready to use), or oxidized copper. I'm setting up to try the oxidized copper as it's easy to work with.

So far I have distilled the patent down to it's base fundamentals and have gathered up 90% of the parts I need. My test method will be to build an "ordinary" 3 coil unit and measure the output, then swap in the "magic" coil to check for the difference (fingers crossed for +). If a positive result is achieved I'll move on to getting the feedback loop working ...

If you research and find a readily availabe and easy to work with photoconductor please post it as I believe it's the preferred material.

hey brnbrade replicators: cupric oxide!

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on July 10, 2007, 12:45:58 AM
I did a quick trial setup of 3 coils to see what a PC function generator input could do: nothing. The goal of current testing is to find a setup that works 'conventionally', then substitute a low mass copper coil to look for the claimed output gain.   
 
Test Theory:

- AC 'power' applied to Input Coil, which causes induction in Receiving Coil, which causes induction in Output coil, which causes a measurable AC 'power' out. Power out will be a very small fraction of power in.
 
Test Setup:

- Input Coil - PC Function Generator sine wave from one channel at about 0.87 volts AC.
- Receiving Coil - closed loop bare copper coil.
- Output Coil - inside the Receiving coil.

Questions:

- Is the wire size too large for the input? Not enough turns?
- Do I need a variable AC power supply? Would it need to do variable frequency as well?
- Can I measure output with my digital multimeter or do I need something else?

Laughter: accepted if required

Attached is the basic Barbat coil layout.

tak

Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on November 30, 2007, 12:51:33 AM
A bit more of Barbat for all that may still be interested,

A big thanks to Hans for picking up on my cryptic reference awhile back in the Earth Battery thread to the patent for a Self-Sustaining Electrical Generator by William Barbat. This patent is my project of choice, but I haven't gotten much further than pulling the patent apart for a list of clues, and coming up with a simplified replication build plan. But maybe what I have done will help others to conceptualize/visualize what Barbat is saying/claiming.

Trivia: Tesla's Self-Sustaining Electrical Generator and the Ether, by Oliver Nichelson (Proceedings of the 1984 International Tesla Symposium)  A naming coincidence?

I've concentrated on working with the cupric oxide (CuO) variation instead of the exotic/expensive photoconductors, doped semiconductors, or superconductors as a source of and conductor of low-mass electrons. Need to find a method for oxidizing copper wire to get the cupric oxide coating.

Finally, before you ask me about wire diameters, # of turns, dimensions, variable caps, etc, just don't, as I don't know the answers. I just know this is my interpretation of the minimum it will take to either get a result, or drive yourself crazy.

The remainder of the original post can be found here http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.msg61921/topicseen.html#msg61921 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.msg61921/topicseen.html#msg61921)

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: supersam on November 30, 2007, 02:20:05 AM
tak,

have you tried putting the input coil into the center of the other two coils?  after reading your post in " the earth magnet section, i just got the feeling that there was a tpu actually being described.  of course i never looked at the actual pictures from the patent and have only just looked at your replication attempt pictures.  i guess i was out of town during the time this site came up the first time.  i wonder if this could be coupled with the "earth battery"  and then with dr. stifflers or em device's projects to make things crazy.

lol
sam
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on November 30, 2007, 02:30:19 AM
sam,

from my understanding it wouldn't work that way as it requires the physical geometry between the smaller input coil and the larger energy magnifying coil to minimize the BMF regions, which then maximizes the output potential.

tak

 
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: supersam on November 30, 2007, 02:52:21 AM
tak,

i am sure you are alot more familiar with the design than i am.  however the first impression i got, from my initial read was, " this is a patent for a tpu" !

would you cosider an experiment where the input coil was placed on the inside of the manifying coil?  if the magnifying coil was enlarged, and the input coil was properly spaced inside, it seems that it would not only magnify, in a small arc, but would be magnifying 360.  just extend both coils into a toroid and viola, a TPU!!!  maybe, possibly, hopefully.  what do you think?

lol
sam
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on November 30, 2007, 03:36:00 AM
sam,

I'm so glad to see your enthusiasm and questions!

I'd certainly like to be the expert on this tech, but so far I've only gotten so far as to understand how this might work based on the patent. Maybe/if it's proven then it can be extended to other configurations. At the same time, there's nothing stopping anyone from trying any config they can dream up within the basic "rules" set by Barbat.

and these are: the input coil radiates inductive photons to the energy coil (which has low mass surface electrons), "magic" happens  ;), and the energy coil radiates to the output coil, voila! A -> B -> C. It's up to the experimenter to find the best configuration that optimizes the two exchanges, and minimizes the BMF.

if a TPU configuration works, then great!  I'm here to encourage replication and experimentation and learn enough to know what I need to do this myself.

tak



Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Localjoe on November 30, 2007, 03:55:58 AM
Just a side note... I do remember some talk about placement of primary coils... look at a tesla coil, the generic shows us a few rings of a large copper gauge wound around in mid air at the base of the secondary... Or at least thats what's in just about every video and most diagrams folks post ... now to my point... Tesla's patents speak of a flat wound spiral primary seated at the base of the secondary. So look at it this way take the lid of a coffee can and say thats your primary and take an empty paper towel cardboard tube and place it upright in the center of the plastic coffee can top.   now... drop a marble down the tube and realize that if suspended there might be some spring action .... like a pump or swing.. smack... The difference im starting to see is that part of geometry of the primary is within the tube not inside it technically but within the z axis at the base.. top down you see the coffee can top when you look through the tube..   Now what i was getting at is all these other primaries are outside the tube looking down just circling it..  Just some conclusions ive drawn.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on November 30, 2007, 04:15:01 AM
think about all the old energy patents and pictures you've seen with "coils of copper" in them,

and remember that it's only fairly recent that copper wire has been annealed with a process that keeps oxyen away and prevents cupric oxide CuO from forming.

so now look at the pictures again with an eye to what might be happening with some of these oxidized coils ....

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: karl on November 30, 2007, 11:28:34 AM
tak22,
how thick should this Cu(x)O(y) layer be? 50nm? 1?m?
Do you have an Idea of the thicknes?
I am familiar with technic's for oxide growing out of different material surfaces.
A small layer of the Cu-suface is sacrificed to grow up the oxide of the metal.
You can do it in humid atmosphere at elevated temperatures to speed up the growing process.
In natural conditions (20?, 60%humidity) it takes to long.
100% humidity (water bubbler) continiously led in an oven at 1000?C is used to grow up SiO out of an Si-Surface (single crystal wafer).
Under this conditions it takes several hours to grow up some 50-100nm of SiO2.
CuO should grow up much faster due to different material conditions.
The oxygen has to move through the already grown layer by diffusion to reach the underlying pure Cu.
This means the thickness is limited due to the decreasing growing factor over time.
This is the simplest technic.
I hope this helps you.
I think there are some developments using such CuO-lavers on Cu to build photon sensitive layers (solar sensitive structures).
Google on it. You should find the basics.
Best wishes
stay tuned
kaRLfunkel
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Rosphere on December 02, 2007, 08:46:27 PM
tak22,

Thank you for posting this interesting Barbat patent application.

I am contemplating a Bedini motor/charger as my next project.  Yet, this Barbat design tempts me with its lack of moving parts and higher claimed output potential.

However, as patents often do, it lacks specific replicate-able details; too many variables to tinker with after nothing happens.  'Did I do something wrong or is there something wrong with the design?'  There is also this to consider: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/c5885.htm (http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/c5885.htm)

With the Bedini device you have more specifics available and more folks that have been there to ask for help and advice.  But on the other hand, the output hides between these two batteries and makes no claims to being a 'self runner' as does the Barbat device.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on December 02, 2007, 09:46:59 PM
@rosphere

big thanks for giving this your attention, maybe I can convince you to have a second look,

too many variables, like a TPU?  :) :D ;)

good warning about the 'loose' CuO

yes there are variables, but not very many parts, and they are 'normal' parts. here's my approach:

- have two identical coils of copper, one shiny and new, the other oxidized (CuO) .
- pulse an input coil to radiate the shiny coil, measure what can be picked up on an output coil.
- repeat, but use the CuO coil.
- is there a difference?
- if yes, move on to optimizing and self resonating.

I believe I need a scope to do this, and I don't have one. If someone knows how to perform this experiment without a scope please speak up.

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 02, 2007, 09:57:35 PM
Get a scope programme for your computer tak.

You can get some good free ones from the net. All you need to do is to build some sort of probe that limits the input into your sound card otherwise you will blow it up. It's not hard.

Start with the programme to which I posted a link here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.225.html  If you follow the thread a bit further there is some information on a possible probe.

Good luck

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Rosphere on December 03, 2007, 12:11:07 AM
maybe I can convince you to have a second look

I believe that you can, my friend.  I like your testing approach.  I may have one channel left still working on my 'scope after I fried the other with a MOT, (what a bonehead move on my part.)

I do not have any pre-oxidized copper wire.  But I have been looking for methods to add a layer of oxidation to new copper.  Apparently, copper can react with various chemicals to produce films of various colors, green, blue, red, and the black CuO that we are after.  One web site mentioned that adding heat to one of the other colors, red or green, will convert it to black.  (I need to crawl back over the net to read more on this topic.)

I read that annealing copper in air will produce a film of CuO.  So, I heated some copper wire to a glow with a butane lighter and let it cool.  Most of the black film rubbed off easily and is most likely soot from the butane flame.  According to Hank Hill, "butane is a bastard gas."

So, then I tried this using a natural gas, stove-top, flame.  The blackening seemed superficial and not well distributed over the wire.

Copper does not oxidize as well as iron in the presence of water.  And when it finally does start to show oxidation it turns green, not black.

So, I'm thinking that H2O2 has more oxygen then water.  I put some copper in a 3%, 'over-the-counter', solution of H2O2, (hydrogen peroxide,) for an hour or so.  Nothing.

Then I tried electrolysis with a 9V battery and salt water.  The plus side blackened a bit, but not too much.

Then I tried electrolysis with a 9V battery and H2O2 solution.  No reaction; no ions.  So I added a bit of NaCl to add some ions.  The bubbling started like with the salt water.  But then, something different started to happen.  The solution started to go from clear to yellow to brown with darker brown blotches forming in the solution.

(I thought that this may be due to the salt and the H2O2 reacting together.  So I mixed the two in a separate container and it stayed clear.)

After several minutes, the water was a dark brown color.  I removed the copper wires.  The plus side had a thick coating that turned bright green when allowed to dry.  I heated this with the lower blue edge of my butane flame, (to attempt to reduce the soot deposits as I was too tired at that point to go downstairs to the kitchen.)  The flame picked up a green glow to it as the green film turned into a red film upon cooling.  Further heating turned it to a black coating.

Is this the CuO film that we are after?  I have no idea.  I need to find better sources of information and do more testing here before I wind any coils.

Like you, I think it is a good Idea to test with a magnification coil of clean copper and then one of oxidized copper.  But, in my case, I would like to make only one and test it before and after blackening the same coil.

This all that I can add at this point.  I will post more information as it is acquired.

If someone reading this has a simple and more direct method of creating a CuO film on 'fresh' copper wire, please post your method.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Rosphere on December 03, 2007, 02:01:56 AM
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7.0;attach=15029;image)

I ran the blackening test again.  I took photos this time.

This time I rinsed the blackened wire end in a clean, (without salt,) H2O2 bath before it had time to dry to a green color like the first trial.  I was hoping that the extra oxygen present, as compared to plain water, would convert that green film into black without the need for the heating process.

I also suspect that it may be the sodium or the chloride in the salt that is reacting with the air and turning the film green, as in the first trial.  So, not only was I hoping to drive any CuO variants to pure CuO, but I was also aiming to rinse the sodium and chloride out of the film.  I did see very fine bubbles coming off the film in the rinse process.

The result appears to be the right color, black.  (Sorry about the low-res photos; the film coverage appears to be thick and complete.) I think that it may be the CuO film that we are after.

Any chemistry majors out there care to post the reaction equations for this process?
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on December 03, 2007, 03:43:04 AM
@rosphere and karl,
I can't really say how to create the 'correct' CuO film on wire and what it would look like, but I'm going to have to find one before I can start testing.

Once I get the wire oxidized I'll take a full length, cut it in half and clean/polish one piece for the control test, and use the oxidized piece for the Barbat effect .....

@Hans,
thanks for the PC scope links and info. I'll look into it, but I'll probably spring for something like this instead:
http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PSSA002&Category_Code=PSSA (http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PSSA002&Category_Code=PSSA)

It's the time of year to be thinking of toys :D

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Rosphere on December 03, 2007, 04:15:29 AM
...I'll probably spring for something like this instead:
http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PSSA002&Category_Code=PSSA (http://www.saelig.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PSSA002&Category_Code=PSSA)
It's the time of year to be thinking of toys :D
(http://www.saelig.com/miva/graphics/00000001/pds5022725.jpg)

Nice.  ;)
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Rosphere on December 08, 2007, 06:51:24 PM
I found a product at my local hobby store called, "BLACKEN-IT," made by, "A-West."  It is used by model railroad enthusiasts to blacken metal parts made of brass, steel, nkl/slvr, copper, zamac.  (Not for aluminum or stainless steel.)  Contains denatured alcohol, selenous acid & dilute copper chloride/copper carbonate.  Cost was US$ 8.00 for 4 fluid ounces.

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7.0;attach=15187;image)

I used this product to blacken a small 20 AWG coil and ran some tests using a multimeter.  At about 3kHz +/- 2kHz range I was able to see 5mV on the output coil using several volts on the input coil, (both made of 28 AWG wire.)  I put enough current on the input coil that it started to heat and soften the plastic straw and clear tape covering.

I removed the blackened magnification coil and I still saw 5mV on the output coil.

So, either this product does not make the CuO film that we are after here, my setup is wrong in some other way, or the concept has no merit.

Has anyone had any success with a Barbat replication?
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: pese on December 08, 2007, 07:38:51 PM
interering patent.

how , i can find to that was was the HUBBARD - Device ??

Scematics here:

 http://pese.150m.com/hubb/index.html

Click on #21 !!



more
http://pese.150m.com/fe/


after this was working with wome watt?s

Hibbard have used "radium" to magnifie
the power to some hp. to drive
an boat , an car , also his
electricity at home.

Pese
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 08, 2007, 08:00:54 PM
G'day Rosphere,

You are after the wrong stuff, The black stuff is cupric oxide which you do not want, cuprous oxide is what you are after and this is red. This is what it should look like:

(http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/echem/soldered_plate.jpg)

Here are complete instructions on how to create a solar cell with copper and cuprous oxide. Hope it helps.
Good luck.

http://www.exo.net/~jillj/activities/solarcell.pdf

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Rosphere on December 08, 2007, 08:55:54 PM
You are after the wrong stuff, The black stuff is cupric oxide which you do not want, cuprous oxide is what you are after and this is red.

Here are complete instructions on how to create a solar cell with copper and cuprous oxide. Hope it helps.
Good luck.

http://www.exo.net/~jillj/activities/solarcell.pdf

Thank you, Hans.

I made a red coating at one time during my electrolysis wire sample tests.  I may give this a try.

However, the Barbat document, PatD25.pdf, specifically calls for, "dull black cupric oxide."  ???

As can be seen, making this free-standing bare-copper coil and getting the right coating is the hardest part of this configuration.  Perhaps the black on my current coil is not CuO, or if it is then it may be too thick.  Or maybe I should use red cuprous oxide, as you suggest?
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 08, 2007, 09:14:28 PM
G'day again,

Barbat's patent relies on a photovoltaic effect. That occurs only with cuprous oxide, never with cupric oxide.

I am as puzzled as you as to why he would say this in his patent application. Besides just the cuprous oxide covered coil on its own would not create electrical potential. In other words the device as described in the patent does not work. There must be more to it than he is disclosing.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Rosphere on December 08, 2007, 09:42:34 PM

...the device as described in the patent does not work. There must be more to it than he is disclosing.

(http://school.discoveryeducation.com/clipart/images/clock.gif)(http://www.hangerfactory.com/www/61/files/blackthick.jpg)
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on December 08, 2007, 09:58:19 PM
Barbat makes dozens of references to the energy-magnifying coil comprising either a photoconductor, a doped semiconductor, or a superconductor.

CuO (Copper (II) oxide) has application as a p-type semiconductor, because it has a narrow band gap of 1.2 eV. A P-type semiconductor (P for Positive) is obtained by carrying out a process of doping, that is adding a certain type of atoms to the semiconductor in order to increase the number of free (in this case positive) charge carriers.

I don't think we've discounted the patent yet ....

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 08, 2007, 10:47:07 PM
I am not discounting the patent Tak,

I do feel that Barbat does not disclose sufficient data to replicate the device, if he had actually built one.

Perhaps the patent here will help somewhat. It deals with the formation of cuprous oxide by electrodeposition.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on December 09, 2007, 02:31:36 AM
Here's another link that describes a DIY method for taking copper through the two oxidation stages of cuprous oxide Cu2O and cupric oxide CuO. It's goal is cuprous oxide for a solar cell, but there are clues if youare aiming for cupric oxide instead:

"When the burner is glowing red-hot, the sheet of copper will be coated with a black cupric oxide coat. Let it cook for a half an hour, so the black coating will be thick. This is important, since a thick coating will flake off nicely, while a thin coat will stay stuck to the copper. After the half hour of cooking, turn off the burner. Leave the hot copper on the burner to cool slowly. If you cool it too quickly, the black oxide will stay stuck to the copper. "

http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/echem/echem2.html#solarcell (http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/echem/echem2.html#solarcell)

I'm going to have to try this as the "naturally' oxidized copper wire that I've been suggesting we can use is obviously wrong. I repeat, disregard my suggestion to get scrap copper, I was wrong! I'll edit my previous posts with this correction.

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 09, 2007, 02:57:40 AM
If it is cupric oxide you are after there is an easy process to do this. This does NOT involve the formation of a cuprous oxide layer underneath and does not require heat. You simply immerse the copper in a solution of Liver of Sulphur (Sulphurated potash) leave it until the copper is really black, rinse well with clean water and leave to dry and harden for a day or so.

You can get the stuff in almost any craft supply store that caters for people making jewellery. The stuff will oxidise most metals.

http://www.rjsintl.com/productDetails.asp?product_id=L30

Hans von Lieven.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Rosphere on December 09, 2007, 04:41:35 AM
...immerse the copper in a solution of Liver of Sulphur ...
You can get the stuff in almost any craft supply store that caters for people making jewellery. The stuff will oxidise most metals.

I had read all about this Potassium Sulfide, K2S.  I phoned a bunch of local craft stores.  None of them had it, or had even heard of it.  (One nice lady told me to try tomato juice.)  I found a bottle of Liver of Sulfur on the internet for three dollars and eight dollars shipping in four to six days.  I did not want to wait another weekend and I would feel,... dirty..., paying over twice the product cost in shipping charges.

When I phoned a local hobby store, they did not carry it either.  They suggested the Blacken-It product, which I tried.

Maybe it worked too well.  I blackened a sample and measured an additional 10 thousandth of a millimeter in diameter; 0.005mm thick film.  This may not seem like much, but on an atomic scale this may be far too many "atomic layers" deep for the photon interaction to affect the copper below.  Perhaps a quick dip in a diluted solution is all that is required,... or necessary.  :-\
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on December 09, 2007, 05:35:55 AM
stay tuned for more cupric oxide forming methods ..........

I've been researching like crazy and have found many methods, just have to find so more time to write them up, probably later tomorrow.

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: MrMag on December 09, 2007, 05:39:35 AM
What about ferric acid which is used to etch circuit boards. I put some wire in it for a few seconds and then rinsed it off. The wire is black, but is it the right black??
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Rosphere on December 09, 2007, 05:51:10 AM
...but is it the right black??
(http://www.parecidosrazonables.com/parecidos_razonables_michael_jackson.jpg)
 :D... sorry, I couldn't help myself.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 09, 2007, 06:02:01 AM
@Rosphere   LOL   ;D

Hans
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: karl on December 10, 2007, 02:22:35 AM
Hi all,
does black mean massive photon materials surface interaction due to absorption of heat?
Does the color change over thickness periodically while growing up the toplayer?
Then the layer is translucent. Where do you want to get photon (IR?)interaction. On the outer surface or in the intermediate layer Cu/CuxOy?
kaRL 
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 10, 2007, 10:26:05 PM
G'day Gentlemen,

In Barbat's patent it states:

[0100] The inductive photons 22 radiating from the sending coil 20 propagate to an energy-magnifying coil 24 that desirably has a cylindrical profile extending parallel to the sending coil. In the embodiment shown in FIGS. 1(A) and 1(B), the energy-magnifying coil 24 does not terminate at the ends, but rather it is constructed with a connector 30 to form a continuous conductor. The energy-magnifying coil 24 desirably is a helical coil made of a material comprising a photoconductive or superconductive material, or other suitable material. If necessary or desired, the energy-magnifying coil can be formed on a substrate that, if used, desirably is transmissive to the inductive-photon radiation produced by the coil.

Further on it says:

[0004] Applicant has deduced that Leimer's energy magnification most likely was due to low-mass electrons that were liberated and made conductive in the antenna by alpha radiation, which allowed these special electrons to be given a greater-than-normal acceleration by the received radio-broadcast photons. Applicant has further deduced that such low-mass electrons must have originated in a thin-film coating of cupric oxide (CuO) on the antenna wire. CuO is a dull-black, polycrystalline, semiconducting compound that develops in situ on copper and bronze wire in the course of annealing the wire in the presence of air. Such CuO coatings have been observed by Applicant on historical laboratory wire at the Science Museum at Oxford University, U.K., and on copper house wire of that era in the U.S., indicating that CuO coatings were commonplace. In later years, annealing has taken place under conditions that prevent most oxidation. This is followed by acid treatment to remove any remaining oxides, leaving shiny wire.

As far as I know cupric oxide has no such properties. Cuprous oxide has.What, if anything, am I missing here?

Karl, you seem to have a lot of experience with semiconducting layers, what is your take on this?

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on December 11, 2007, 07:18:18 AM
duplicate
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on December 11, 2007, 08:04:42 AM
Hans,

I think the key word here is "or", as in  .........photoconductor or semiconductor or superconductor ....... which gives us 3 possible variations for an "energy-magnifying coil".

Cupric oxide CuO is a semiconductor (at least that's what my searching has found) so it's safe to proceed!

There are also many references linking CuO to HTSC superconductor compounds.

This is still unexplored territory, but at least a map of some worth is in front of us.

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 11, 2007, 10:13:59 AM
Hans,

I think the key word here is "or", as in  .........photoconductor or semiconductor or superconductor ....... which gives us 3 possible variations for an "energy-magnifying coil".

Cupric oxide CuO is a semiconductor (at least that's what my searching has found) so it's safe to proceed!

There are also many references linking CuO to HTSC superconductor compounds.

This is still unexplored territory, but at least a map of some worth is in front of us.

tak

G'day Tak.

This is where the confusion arises. I do not know much about the role of cupric oxide as a superconductor and at what temperatures, but one thing I think I know, is that the statement: CuO is a dull-black, polycrystalline, semiconducting compound that develops in situ on copper and bronze wire in the course of annealing the wire in the presence of air. is wrong.

Please correct me on this if I am mistaken.

I have always felt that every time someone proves one wrong on some point, an opportunity for learning presents itself. This I do not mind at all. In the meantime though I stick with what I think is correct.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 11, 2007, 02:42:20 PM
Hey guys,

I found this answer.  Medical grade hydrogen peroxide, if you do not want to make your own.

Also google CuO description and you will see that there is much more to CuO and it's properties than you would think


From Yahoo answers:
I suggest you a liquid medium, an aqueous solution.
In a glass-beaker, you put diluted Sodium Hydroxide (e.g. Alkaline and Harmful Liquid) where will aid AMMONIUM HYDROXIDE's solution (e.g. Take care of your skin and eyes! Harmful liquid! Dont' breath its vapours!) hence HYDROGEN PEROXIDE (e.g. medical concentration may satisfy you).
Well, you dipp several Copper-bodies and you wait several days tightening the beaker against its fumes.
The liquid will tarnish black-bluish

Cu?(s) + H2O2(aq) + 4 NH4OH(aq) --->
---> [Cu(NH3)4](OH)2(aq) + 4 H2O(aq)

[Cu(NH3)4](OH)2(aq) + 3 H2O(aq) --->
---> CuO(s) + 4 NH4OH(aq)

OR

How can CuO be synthesized from CuSO4 and KOH?

How do you get a stable pure form of Copper (II) Oxide when you react Copper (II) Sulfate with Potassium Hydroxide?
A. Y. Wong

    You'll form a blue, bulky precipitate of Cu(OH)2 first, according to

    CuSO4(aq) + 2 KOH(aq) right arrow K2SO4(aq) + Cu(OH)2(s)
    If you add too much KOH, the precipitate will dissolve (and you get an intensely blue solution of complex copper ions). Add it a little at a time until you see no more precipitate form.

    Filter off the copper(II) hydroxide, and wash it to remove the soluble potassium sulfate. Pour the clean precipitate into an evaporating dish and dry it very gently:

    Cu(OH)2(s) CuO(s) + H2O(g)
    You should see black powder form. That's the copper(II) oxide. If you heat it too much, it will decompose further into copper(I) oxide and oxygen.

    Author: Fred Senese senese@antoine.frostburg.edu
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: hansvonlieven on December 12, 2007, 09:30:16 PM
G'day all,

Correction

Sorry fellows. Further research indicates that cupric oxide is indeed a p-type semiconductor. My earlier statement is therefore wrong. Thanks Tak for pointing me in the right direction.

It does beg one question though and that is why cuprous oxide is used in photocells instead of cupric oxide.

The cuprous oxide layer is difficult to produce, an even film is impossible to obtain and the layer is very thin and delicate.

On the other hand cupric oxide is easy to produce chemically, an even film can be obtained with ease and the layer is far more robust. From what they are telling us this is far superior. So why then do they insist on using cuprous oxide.

Questions I have so far no answers for. I shall keep you posted on further findings.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on December 13, 2007, 06:20:27 AM
@Hans,

Thanks for the validation, but your Correction is too big!

While my research found references saying cupric oxide is a semiconductor, it also found that cuprous oxide is a better one, which explains why it's used most often. I expect it's the simple old case of efficiency (which makes you money), trumps robustness.

@all

That's enough theory searching for me for a while, so I'll continue to proceed with the "build and test" method. My gut feeling is that the Barbat patent is well thought out, and if copper wire works, then it won't matter to me if it's CuO, Cu2O, CuO and Cu2O, superconducting, semiconducting, photoconducting, or voodoo magic. I just want to get to the point where a "special" coil of copper wire is proven to be or not be, "special". If yes, then proceed with testing the gazillions of variations and variables to get something truly remarkable. How's that for positive?  :D

tak

ps. I've been asked why I feel strongly about this barbat patent. It's a good question and when I can gather more minutes together than I'm finding lately I'll post my thoughts. And I still have my research on how to get a good oxide layer onto copper wire written up.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Schpankme on December 26, 2007, 06:28:59 AM

I've been asked why I feel strongly about this barbat patent. It's a good question and when I can gather more minutes together than I'm finding lately I'll post my thoughts. And I still have my research on how to get a good oxide layer onto copper wire written up.

Hey Tak,

Where you at with replication of the Barbat Patent ?

- Schpankme
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on January 03, 2008, 05:44:45 AM
@Schpankme

thanks for asking, but I'm at one of the frustration stages! I've got pages of research to distill into something sensible and not enough time to get to it.  :(

got a few more intense days coming up and hoping for a break by Sunday.

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on January 07, 2008, 06:46:27 AM
CuO cupric oxide update:

I'm continuing with my BARBAT replication using the CuO oxidized wire variation. To proceed, I need some oxidized wire so I spent quite a few hours searching for references. Here are 15 ideas I found for forming a CuO cupric oxide layer on copper wire. Most all of them involve chemicals that are dangerous to work with, so please do your own research before attempting any of these methods. All methods are written by others and many details are lacking, so again, research before proceeding.

I have not attempted any of these yet, so any refinements/corrections/additions suggested are appreciated.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ABOUT WIRE ANNEALING - When copper wire is annealed with heat in air the wire temperature is around 566 degrees Celsius, and when it is taken above about 200 degrees C, it quickly oxidizes and cupric oxide forms. To protect the hot copper wire from atmospheric oxygen, steam, nitrogen or some other reducing atmosphere is put around it until such time that the annealed copper wire is cooled down. (Preferably back to room temperature.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

0 - HEAT (from BARBAT) - Alternatively, copper oxides are formed in place on bare copper or bronze wire by heating the wire above about 260? C in an oxygen atmosphere.

1 - 4N-NaOH - The copper was anodically oxidized at 100? C in 4N-NaOH to give a cupric oxide film.

2 - HEATED CAUSTIC OXIDIZERS -- These baths operate at 240? F and utilize caustic soda and sodium nitrate to oxidize the copper at the surface to a black cupric oxide. Since they react exclusively with the copper at the surface, a copper-rich surface favors the formation of a black deposit in the shortest time.

3 - ALKALINE AQUEOUS - The oxidizing treatment of the copper plate is to be carried out by treating the copper plate surface with an alkaline aqueous solution containing an oxidizing agent, for which agent such chlorate as sodium chlorite NaClO.sub.2 or the like, potassium persulfate K.sub.2 S.sub.2 O.sub.8. Use a concentration range of the respective components as 30-90g/1 for NaC1O.sub.2, 10-20g/1 for NaOH, and 5-15g/1 for Na.sub.3 PO.sub.4, preferably, under such treating conditions of solution temperature and treating time as 60-95 C. and 2-5 minutes, preferably.

4 - SODIUM CHLORITE + SODIUM HYDROXIDE + SODIUM PHOSPHATE - Copper was  preliminarily treated by dipping in a copper chloride solution at 25? C for 25 seconds, the solution having been prepared by mixing 2.4 kg of cupric chloride (CuCl.sub.2.2H.sub.2 O) and 18 lit. of industrial hydrochloric acid (35 wt. %) into water of 42 lit., the plates were thereafter rinsed, dipping them for 60 seconds in a hydrochloric acid solution prepared by mixing 70 lit. of the industrial hydrochloric acid (35 wt. %) with water of 155 lit., and rinsing them again. The copper was then dipped for 2 minutes in a blackening treatment solution of 95? C, the solution having been prepared in a composition of 31g/1 of sodium chlorite, 15g/1 of sodium hydroxide and 12g/1 of sodium phosphate, and the copper plates were thus blackened. The copper plates were further rinsed and dried at 120? C for 60 minutes.

5 - NaOH - Dissolve a small amount of NaOH in water and immerse the copper wire. If no color change takes place fast then add a bit more of the NaOH. Do this until you see the color change on the copper. Be sure not to get any on your skin or in your eyes and avoid breathing the fumes when dissolving the NaOH as these can hurt your lungs.

6 - "EBONOL C" #1 - Copper, if not already clean, is cleaned by immersion for typically 3 minutes in an alkaline cleaner liquid at elevated temperature of typically about 180? F and obtained by admixing "ENPLATE" 453 cleaner concentrate with water, in amount sufficient to form the alkaline cleaner liquid of about 50% by volume cleaner concentrate concentration. The copper is then water rinsed. The clean copper is then immersed in a deoxidizer liquid for typically 1-3 minutes at room temperature of the liquid and obtained by admixing "ENPLATE" AD 482 deoxidizer concentrate in water in amount sufficient to form the deoxidizer liquid of about 30% by volume deoxidizer concentrate concentration. The copper is then water rinsed.
The thus-treated clean copper, is then immersed in a blackener solution comprising 1 1/2 lbs. of "EBONOL C" blackener concentrate per gallon of water, for about 1 to 10 minutes at a solution temperature in the range of about 140? F. to about 220? F. The blackener concentrate contains a mixture of an alkali metal hydroxide, e.g. sodium hydroxide and an alkali metal chlorite, e.g. sodium chlorite. A black or dark film or coating of thickness within the range of about 0.01 mil to about 0.5 mil is thereby formed on the copper surface. The copper is then water rinsed.
The blackening solutions employed herein are those obtained by mixing 1 1/2 lbs. of either of the solid blackener concentrates A and B which follow, per gallon of water.
Blackener Concentrate A by Weight: Sodium hydroxide 66% and Sodium chlorite 34%
Blackener Concentrate B by Weight: Sodium hydroxide 50% and Sodium chlorite 50%

7 - "EBONOL C" #2 - Cupric oxide coating is formed by the method described in ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials) Designation D
2651-79(Reapproved 1984), page 170, for forming cupric oxide coatings on copper. Copper is degreased and then immersed in a solution of 10 parts nitric acid to 90 parts water for 30 seconds at room temperature. The copper is then rinsed in running water and immersed immediately in a solution of water and Ebonol C (containing 24 ounces of "Ebonol C" per gallon of solution) for one to two minutes at 98 degrees C. "Ebonol C" is available from Ethone, Inc., New Haven, Conn. The copper is removed from the solution and rinsed in water.

8 - "EBONOL C" #3 - A copper surface dipped 5 minutes in "EBONOL C" blackener solution at 175? F. produced a coating on the surface.

9 - SULFIDE COMPOUND - The blackening agent for the second layer can easily be prepared using a sulfide compound. Many blackening agents are commercially available. "Copper black CuO", "Copper black CuS", and selenium series "Copper black No. 65" (each, trade name; product of Isolate Chemical) and "Ebonol C Special" (trade name; product of Meltex) are usable.

10 - TEMPERATURE - We have been studying copper oxidation for over two years to determine the complex reactions involved in copper oxidation at room
temperature to 500 C. Between room temperature and 100 C copper forms a thin Cu2O layer; at about 150 C a complex oxide forms Cu3O2; and at 200-300 C CuO forms. Significant oxidation occurs when CuO begins to form. You should cool copper to below 150 C to be sure that only a protective thin film has formed.

11 - AMMONIUM CHLORIDE (sal ammoniac) -  A saturated solution of commercial sal ammoniac is brush-or spray-applied. Several applications may be required to obtain the desired result.

12 - CUPROUS CHLORIDE/HYDROCHLORIC ACID - Apply by spray or brush. Consists of the following formulation:

164 g. cuprous chloride
117 ml. hydrochloric acid
69 ml. glacial acetic acid
80 g. ammonium chloride
11 g. arsenic trioxide
Water to make one (1) liter

13 - AMMONIUM SULFATE - Spray apply, six to eight applications. Consists of the following formulation:

111 g. ammonium sulfate
3.5 g. copper sulfate
1.6 ml. ammonia
1 liter water

14 - AQUEOUS SOLUTIONS - Two to ten percent aqueous solutions of ammonium sulfide, potassium sulfide (liver of sulfur), or sodium sulfide (liquid sulfur)
are swabbed or brushed on the surfaces to be treated producing the oxidized finish.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also need a scope to test the wire and coils with, so I've ordered one.

tak

Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on January 18, 2008, 11:30:26 PM
here's a very interesting and encouraging quote I've taken from an Oregon newspaper where William Barbat alludes to the continuing pursuit of his patent

Quote
Unknown to almost everyone, a revolutionary non-nuclear solution is being experimented with, albeit at a slow pace.

original article from the Lake Oswego News, Jan 3/08  http://www.lakeoswegoreview.com/opinion/story.php?story_id=119932570676675000 (http://www.lakeoswegoreview.com/opinion/story.php?story_id=119932570676675000)


I'm still waiting for my new DSO to be delivered, meantime I'm clearing a work space for this project in my basement, and continuing to do on-line research.

Does anyone have any progress to report? I don't mind if you're sitting back waiting for me.

tak

Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Schpankme on January 19, 2008, 01:24:16 AM
For me this patent presents many red flags, in the first paragraph.  Sit back and read while the buzz words flow.

"Electrical oscillations in a metallic "sending coil" radiate inductive photons toward one or more "energy-magnifying coils" comprised of a photoconductor or doped semiconductor coating a metallic conductor, or comprised of a superconductor. Electrons of low inertial mass in the energy-magnifying coil(s) receive from the sending coil a transverse force having no in-line backforce, which exempts this force from the energy-conservation rule. The low-mass electrons in the energy-magnifying coil(s) receive increased acceleration proportional to normal electron mass divided by the lesser mass. Secondarily radiated inductive-photon energy is magnified proportionally to the electrons' greater acceleration, squared."

Red Flags

1) radiate inductive photons
2) Electrons of low inertial mass in the energy-magnifying coil(s) receive from the sending coil
3) transverse force having no in-line backforce, which exempts this force from the energy-conservation rule.
4) electrons in the energy-magnifying coil(s)
5) normal electron mass divided by the lesser mass.
6) Secondarily radiated inductive-photon energy is magnified proportionally to the electrons' greater acceleration, squared.

Big Bang is dead,

- Schpankme
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on January 19, 2008, 10:57:50 PM
@Schpankme

Quote
For me this patent presents many red flags, in the first paragraph.  Sit back and read while the buzz words flow.

I've read your post a few times now and I'm still not sure where you're trying to get with it.  yes, there are buzz words, but they all make sense if Barbat is correct in his discovery. yes, they're all packed into the Abstract, but that's kinda how you have to write a summary.

this patent is all about creating coils with unique physical characteristics that allow for the magnifying of incident energy, and either this is true or it isn't.  no analysis of the words used or the supporting "story/history/logic/etc" that Barbat includes in the patent will mean anything until this can be shown to be true or false, and that's what I'm working towards.

@all

I think it's very significant that Barbat is publicly saying that his patent is alive and well and being pursued.

tak

we are indulging ourselves into non-existence
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Schpankme on January 20, 2008, 05:58:37 AM
I've read your post a few times now and I'm still not sure where you're trying to get with it.

tak22,

My points speak for themselves.  Please provide factual answers to the six (6) points; or concede that Barbat has engaged in Techno-Babble; and such verbiage is useless.

1) radiate inductive photons

  "So what's a Photon? or do we chalk this up to Big Bang BS ?"

2) Electrons of low inertial mass

  "How many electron types are there (low, high, medium, normal, just right" ?  You ever seen an electron ?

3) transverse force having no in-line backforce

  "is this a poor description of BEMF"?

4) electrons in the energy-magnifying coil(s)

  "more electrons have been found - HOW" ?

5) normal electron mass divided by the lesser mass
 
  "what MASS are we dividing here, what's a normal electron"?

6) radiated inductive-photon energy is magnified proportionally to the electrons' greater acceleration, squared

  "so Barbat claims to have magnified Photon energy via the square of the accelerated electrons ... how do you verify this ... see points above"


- Schpankme
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on January 22, 2008, 12:31:55 AM
another William Barbat sighting today, this time from the Stanford Magazine, Jan/Feb 08 issue:

Quote
Cosmic theorist Andrei Linde missed important breakthroughs that turned some cherished theories into science fiction. Wm. G. Tifft (1976, 1977) found that the Hubble red-shift bears no resemblance to a universal Doppler shift because it is quantized, step-like. This means that the universe is not expanding or inflating and that the Big Bang never happened.

Also Shpenkov and Kreidik (2002) found that the heat source, which sustains the cosmic background radiation at the measured peak blackbody temperature of 2.725?0.002?K, must be due to radiation from the orbital electron motion of interstellar hydrogen at its fundamental period, which they calculated to be 2.7289?K. This is another face of the internal heat source, named Nullpunktenergie (Zero Point Energy) by Einstein and Stern, that keeps helium in a liquid condition at an ambient temperature near absolute zero unless a pressure of 25 atmospheres is applied to make the helium freeze solid. This perpetual low-grade heat source was described by Joseph Larmor (1897), who realized that electric charges give off radiation when their direction of acceleration is changed (like cyclotron radiation and synchrotron radiation), so that orbiting electrons must radiate energy indefinitely.

William N. Barbat, ’51, MS ’52
Lake Oswego, Oregon

Barbat appears to be impressed by Joseph Larmor as he also references him frequently in his patent.

@Schpankme

sorry, but I can't provide facts or concede that Barbat has engaged in Techno-Babble.  facts for me will appear when I see before my own eyes that I can or can't replicate anything of significance.  it will be useless to engage me in debate on the patent language or "facts" as I don't have a suitable background.  I do think I can recognize a sincere effort to present a valid patent application, and if I'm wrong, that'll be my problem.

tak

PS. got my DSO shipment notice today! it's on it's way! hurray! 
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Schpankme on January 22, 2008, 04:39:44 AM
I do think I can recognize a sincere effort to present a valid patent application, and if I'm wrong, that'll be my problem.

tak22,

Your not thinking clearly and you've dismissed the Techno-Babble as a "sincere effort to present a valid patent application".  Personally, I hope your testing is rewarding.

Best regards,

- Schpankme
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: allcanadian on January 22, 2008, 10:10:50 PM
I think the common thread in most of these devices relates to the moray device, where radium was used to dope a copper conductor in his tubes. The radium "radiates" producing an outward bias in motion like a zero threshold diode using ionization to produce the bias. Or like an amplifier tube without the heating element to produce ionization--a cold tube. How could an amp tube "amplify" without the ionizing heater element? maybe if this cuperous oxide layer could hold residual ionization for any length of time it could act in the same way, like a cold ionizing bias source. This ionization would imply high voltage in some form if this is the case.
What everyone always assumes is that these devices utilize conventional low voltage/low frequency current which is seldom if ever the case.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: zerotensor on January 23, 2008, 12:58:32 AM
A few thoughts:

1.  In the case that the photons are generated by a coil, they are RF, and the "photoconductive" property must be active in this region of the spectrum for the device to work.  Perhaps CuO has this property.

2.  I think that the low-mass electron theory is off the mark.  Instead, what may be happening is that the presence of magnetic vortices (eddy currents) in the semiconductor film may be disrupted by the absorption of photons, thereby changing the electromagnetic properties of the coil.  This allows the material to "do work" on the overall EM field configuration as it switches between the semiconducting and conducting states (or maybe it switches between p-type and n-type -- who knows?).  Ideally, the input photon energy will be far less than the energy which can be extracted from the changing B-field.

3.  This seems to be related:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pF36PsLQOI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pF36PsLQOI)

In this case, the photons are in the near-visible wavelength, the substrate is fiber-optic, and the layer is YBCO.

4.  For food-grade 30% H2O2, there is a company called Oxy-Tech that sells the stuff.  Just watch out, 'cause the Feds might be watching as this is a popular reagent for producing high explosives.  You might be able to find it at a health food store.  And be careful!  This stuff can really burn you.  If you do spill some on your skin, having some vitamin C crystals (also from the health-food store) on hand could save you serious skin damage.  After flushing the affected area with lots of water, pour the vitamin C onto the skin and make a paste, and repeat.  This will short-circuit the free-radical action of the peroxide.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on February 29, 2008, 05:06:54 AM
an update for those that might be following this project:

- purchased a DSO and am getting familiar with how to use it

- found a local plating expert to work with me on the CuO cupric oxide on copper wire problem

- once we decide on a wire treatment method I will be able to offer wire to others that may want to experiment

- purchased a selection of variable caps for the controls

- more research and learning

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Vortex1 on July 06, 2008, 12:10:03 AM
Hi tak22

 
Quote
The Barbat patent is an absolutely incredible document 

Agreed. I first learned of it this morning and can't stop reading and re-reading. Thanks for the invite here. Hope I can contribute something

......V
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: Vortex1 on July 09, 2008, 04:59:33 AM
Hate to post twice in a row but things are a little dead around here, so here goes.

Several mysteries with this patent

1. Why does Barbat not put his "sending coil" co-axially inside a magnifying coil made of copper tubing with a treated inside surface (photoconductive) such that all of the photonic induction can impinge on the inside surface of the magnifying coil tube.
A co-axial approach such as this would minimize radiated losses. Alternately a long copper pipe with inside surface treated and co-axial with  a wire running from end to end as the sending coil. With suitably spaced insulating washers or beads, this assembly could be wound into a coil and put into a pot core to completely contain stray fields.

2. Barbat has me confused in saying that normal transformer action is the result of photonic induction. If this is true, the photons have no trouble going through opaque insulating paper and wire varnish in a typical transformer. But then his arrangements seem to imply the photonic induction is like visible light and carefully places his devices to optimize direct illumination as if it were light.? Barbat tries to make the case that normal radio waves are the result of photonic induction into and out of antenna structures and then extends this to normal transformer action. Wikipedia seems to agree (def:photon)

3. The magnifying coil in fig.1a, 2a and 3 represent a shorted transformer winding.  This would cause extreme absorption of energy and heating of the magnifying coil. All of the energy will go to this winding in the form of heat, and nothing will be left for the output winding. Am I missing something? Now if it works, I don't mind having such a heater, but how does he get useful work into his output winding with a shorted winding absorbing everything?

Maybe Stephan could invite Mr. Barbat to this thread to explain or clarify a few (non-proprietary) things,

Some ideas:

Does anyone think this will work? Purchase some 1/4 or 3/8 O.D. copper tubing. Clean the inside by circulating a mild acid using a small pump. Rinse with water, then circulate peroxide for as long as necessary.. Rinse again with water. Should have a nice uniform oxide coating on the inside.

Now thread a cotton insulated copper wire (sending coil)  through the center of the copper tubing.  The entire assembly can be formed onto a bobbin and set into a magnetic structure such as a large ferrite pot core.

Activating the sending coil, all of the photonic induction will impinge on the photoconductor on the inside wall of the tube, as they are co-axial. This should make the assembly highly efficient.

If you like you can add the work coil to the bobbin as an outer winding on top of the magnifying coil., but as is should make a pretty good heater if the kind of gains Barbat is claiming are anywhere near true.

Another method for oxidizing copper tubing interior would be to heat the tubing, while slowly running some pure oxygen through it.

.regards............V

Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: triffid on July 20, 2008, 11:19:01 PM
test,just wanted a link to this thread.triffid
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: aether22 on July 22, 2008, 01:34:22 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, and if everyone is aware, but look at Teslas patent with the copper disk.

It is almost surely oxidized and it is exposed to light.
It therefore produces these low mass electrons, no I'm not quoting Barbat I am quoting Tesla, that is what he said of his copper plate radiant energy collector.

Maybe Barbat mentions it in the patent, so if this is obvious and old news then ignore me.

Tesla noted that these electrons can rupture diecectrics even at low voltages, this connects to Stiffler/ATGroup's TMB: http://www.stifflerscientific.com/tmb.asp

Where despite the extremely low voltages it arcs through air!

IMO these 'low mass electrons' are really 'orgone charged electrons'.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: aether22 on July 22, 2008, 02:41:23 AM
I too hate to make 2 posts in a row, but Vortex1, you are missing the point.

What is happening here is the main OU principle in electromagnetic devices.
It is the act of increasing coupling from a source of flux to a pickup coil which are in an otherwise loose coupling, the coupling is unidirectionaly increased by various aetheric methods and this is just one way, there are many more.

The point is the coupling must be low or else first there will be nothing to increase, and second the pickup coil will have too much effect back on the source of flux.

There are a few things you should know, first is that the pickup coil and any other receiving coil (the magnifying coil) should preferably not be grounded.

Another is that motors or buzzers are an ideal source of flux, although any open ferrous core coil can work.

Also the pickup coils should be no where near a ferrous core, you want them to produce as little magnetism as possible.

My suggestion would be to take a large copper plate, let it oxidize naturally (unless you already have the gear to do CuO in a more deliberate manner) and then coat it in something clear, maybe a spray on polyurethane or something, insulate everything very well and connect this to your coil.

There is one catch though, These aetherically mediated EM waves (photons if you like, but not photons as you are thinking, not optical wavelength but massive sizes that have different views on what is transparent and what is opaque) are attracted to positively charged metal, and so I am not totally convinced that any method that charges it negatively is going to be all that effective.


Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: AhuraMazda on March 19, 2009, 09:55:35 PM
So what happened? This thread showed so much promise when it started. I see that you have all given it up for dead. Hellooo......hellooo.......echoe.......echoe..............echoe....

Free energy is our right but like every thing else we have to work for it. When I have read all of this thread I hope I can kick start this again.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on March 20, 2009, 12:01:02 AM
Well, for me it's all about available time, equipment, and knowledge/experience,
and I haven't stopped trying to acquire enough of these to move forward with this.

This is my #1 OU interest and am willing to work with anyone that is serious about
discussing how to get this dis or proven.

all the best,

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: AhuraMazda on March 20, 2009, 12:59:14 AM
I am sure you are aware that the patent is not an instruction set for replicating the idea. Even if you had all the materials, Barrat would have used a part of his intelligence to prevent any would be researcher from duplicating his work. Still I think his patent has some significant revelations that can be used else where,
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: libra_spirit on March 20, 2009, 08:29:01 PM
Distance:

I believe that the distance between the loose coupled coils may be criticle.

The three fields:

E field or voltage
M field or magnetic
T field called the "A" field for toroidal coils

The magnetic field of course is the shortest range effect force. The E field of voltage is stronger to a much further distance, and the T field has furthest reach.

Thing about the T field is what happens when you cancel it.

If you short out two wires with voltage across them you get a spark and blow a fuse from the heat produced by electrons flowing.

If you try to cancel the magnetic field you get opposition and physical push.

If you short out opposing T fields you get something very different. An increase in light volocity, the Aether is altered. This is because the T field is a nuclear spin force like gravity.

http://magnetism.50webs.com/Tensor.htm (http://magnetism.50webs.com/Tensor.htm)

If you scan down to the Joe Cell power supply diagrams offered here you will notice the circuits do not make any sense whatsoever from an electronics stand point. The reversed diodes are supposed to stop all EM currents. However it is discovered they only stop the electron flow and not the T field flows.
In AC electric currents, there are also two opposing spin field running the wire in opposite directions through the load and these are what actually transfer the power. They will fly right through the diodes if the circuit has an actual load on it.

You can then play with sending them into other things to see the response or you can even cancel them by shorting. The effect builds up slowly and can create very strange effects. Be careful!

When you add the lamp dimmer and set it about to half these T fields really power up strongly and can start to interact with one another.

Dave L



Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on March 20, 2009, 08:51:04 PM
Dave,

Thanks for adding this perspective on the T field and it's association with light velocity
and nuclear spin, both of which are directly related to what Barbat is implying.

When you say coupling distance may be important, do you think the tolerance is going
to be very very small and it'll be extremely dependent on coil configuration and the
LC achieved?

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: libra_spirit on March 20, 2009, 09:59:22 PM
An example is Joe Cell spacing.

A Joe Cell will get the effect in the water from about 1/4" up to a little over 1/2". Any closer the effect dies. We use 1/8" spacing for making hydrogen without getting the torsion effect in water.

Your coil setup is much different however, If you are powering a coil, then how ever far out the magnetic field reaches the E field will go further and the T field furthest. So you can experiment with distance and driving voltage and current to see how far you need.

The main thing with trying to build a powering device is get a load on it. Try to study the loaded circuit first from the mains. Sweet said his VTA wouldl not work with less then about 100 watt load on it as I recall. Hubbard always had the light bulb on top or was starting up the unit with a motor attached. Don't expect to see your voltage setting there ready to power something when before the load is connected.

Since I set up the light bulb, and started to see how everything changes with it actually lit I realized two things.

1 - Work with the load connected.

2 - Use a triac or light dimmer to increase the T fields for experiment.

This can be a little more dangerous so use caution.

I can go into EM theory to show why this is necessary if you like, but the voltage and current need to be loaded drawing power to have the T field pop out to a place where you can set both sides against one another. The atoms can no longer fully compensate and so they keep trying harder because you have set dimagnetic field against diamagnetic field. I believe at resonance the T filed has no need to become external or extend its reach very far to bring harmony back to the copper atoms. But the other approach is to achieve a resonance and this is Roterverter technology. Very effecient, but may never go far into OU, don't know. Only experiment will show this over time.

If you arrange two coils, both loaded, and position them such that T fields cancel, you may see effects, as long as E and M do not cancel.
The diodes can be used to seperate them also because T field will move right down a copper wire.

Dave L
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: kfstevens2370 on June 16, 2010, 11:17:41 PM
I am working on constructing the Barbat device. I almost have it finished. Just finished creating the magnifying coils. I used a heat to create the oxide crystals. I have both red, brown and black oxide build up on them. I have built home made solar cells this way and you just don't get that much electricity out on it. If I remember correctly you just get mV. I am thinking that may not be the case with a sending coil. I will try this first and see what happens. Next I will try putting a solar cell in series with the magnifying coils and place one on top and one on bottom. I will remove the sending coil when doing this and add LED lights as the exciter. I plan of lossing the plastic plates and adding wood in place of them. Here are some pix of the A.
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on June 17, 2010, 12:15:37 AM
Hi,

Glad to see you're interested in the Barbat patent! I've put my replication
on hold while I tackle 'easier' projects, and until I get a better understanding
of resonance and how to induce/control/monitor it for this application.

Can you tell us how the SEC will fit into the driving circuit?

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: exnihiloest on June 17, 2010, 09:15:52 AM
...
Everyone here that has wound a coil or tinkered with electronics, or desperately wanted to, will find inspiration in the sheer simplicity of Barbat's generator.
...

rather, everyone seriously involved in electronics and physics knows that things are not so simple. Real life is not pseudo-inventor's dreams.

Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: tak22 on December 15, 2010, 12:34:47 AM
Looks like there's a little more interest in Barbat lately so I'll give a short update.

1. Other things have kept me from the workbench for over a year now.

2. Grumpy posted a link for a DIY cuprous oxide coating over at overunityresearch.com

    http://www.hpfriedrichs.com/rr-cu-diode.htm (http://www.hpfriedrichs.com/rr-cu-diode.htm)

3. I'll continue to be interested in this until I see it NOT work.

tak
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: ramset on December 15, 2010, 12:36:47 AM
NICE!!
Title: Re: Barbat low inertial mass generator
Post by: DeepCut on March 03, 2013, 05:24:07 PM
I'm told that bathing the coils in acid a few times helps very much.


DC.