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Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 429919 times)

d3x0r

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The relay noise may not match the video?  The video is 30fps; every frame has 2 LEDs on; which is 2 switches (one off, and a new one on )  3 cycles of 24 happen in a second in the video ( which means each spike of change is registering to the clock ).

and it's not really a full wave of rotation...

the audio is 48HZ according to the ticks of the relays...




shylo

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https://youtu.be/rtSbDTcnsYI don't know if this posted

r2fpl

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Pierre,

Can You help us;

Do you use the principle of Figuera?

like: S|N (coil) N|S (coil) S|N .....N|S .....

or just Back EMF?

It would help in understanding :)


Thank You !

d3x0r

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Pierre,

Can You help us;

Do you use the principle of Figuera?

like: S|N (coil) N|S (coil) S|N .....N|S .....

or just Back EMF?

It would help in understanding :)


Thank You !


what is 'coil' ?  the pickup coil?
In Figuera, one side approaches, the other receeds; so N-N is appropriate...
this is more about moving maintained magnetic fields... I suppose... you could do an offset such that well... drive every coil as the same polarity, and you get opposite 'virtual poles' I think Bedini called them inbetween that are opposite... like bedini was all same polarity magnets...  maybe just run 3 + with 0 -... 
(am trying to avoid 'N' and 'S' because specifics don't really matter; unless you believe sprouts grow better when exposed to a South field ala Ken Wheeler which may be relevant in other applications)


back EMF is not the primary function; if it was, the heavy power transformers to the capacitors wouldn't have to be plugged into the device output.
The coils are only like 1-2mH; and with a reasonable 0.5-1.4 resistance  0.5 Ohm, 1.5mH, loses its current over 5ms   1.5Ohm reduces the delay to 3ms (more or less)...
ya sorr I'm kinda rambing...

T-1K did say something about near coils, and I guess they are all shorted, which means they're going to develop as 'eddy currents' or sorts...
could wish I had a 36 channel scope with current probes on each coil :)
I don't know; there's 4 coils between 1, 6;  ( 2,3,4,5 ) the 2 and 3 are more under 1 (coupled to) so they should end up getting opposing poles near... as coil 1 and 6 are first energized.. and 4 and 5 are more under 6 than 1, so they should end up getting an opposing pole to 6... which then the increasing current in 2, and 5 are mutually exclusive...   Though that current will dampen by the resistance of the coil... which then counter induce in the original 1 and 6 as their current diminishes but the other remains?   switching is 16ms...
Then in the second step 2, 7 turn on, for 16 ms... then 1, 6 turn off... but really short so whatever current their coils have can continue.... (shorted). 

I don't know... how much ARE the coils coupled?   

---
I do have a question for clarification; the 700 feet of bifilar windings; is that 700 each or total (350 each?) 
700/11 = 63x the wire for outer windings? (based on 11 feet of gotoluc's windings)

----

Someone mentioned a 36 vaned motor... 36 slots had 35 vanes.

r2fpl

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what is 'coil' ?  the pickup coil?
In Figuera, one side approaches, the other receeds; so N-N is appropriate...
this is more about moving maintained magnetic fields... I suppose... you could do an offset such that well... drive every coil as the same polarity, and you get opposite 'virtual poles' I think Bedini called them inbetween that are opposite... like bedini was all same polarity magnets...  maybe just run 3 + with 0 -... 
(am trying to avoid 'N' and 'S' because specifics don't really matter; unless you believe sprouts grow better when exposed to a South field ala Ken Wheeler which may be relevant in other applications)


back EMF is not the primary function; if it was, the heavy power transformers to the capacitors wouldn't have to be plugged into the device output.
The coils are only like 1-2mH; and with a reasonable 0.5-1.4 resistance  0.5 Ohm, 1.5mH, loses its current over 5ms   1.5Ohm reduces the delay to 3ms (more or less)...
ya sorr I'm kinda rambing...

T-1K did say something about near coils, and I guess they are all shorted, which means they're going to develop as 'eddy currents' or sorts...
could wish I had a 36 channel scope with current probes on each coil :)
I don't know; there's 4 coils between 1, 6;  ( 2,3,4,5 ) the 2 and 3 are more under 1 (coupled to) so they should end up getting opposing poles near... as coil 1 and 6 are first energized.. and 4 and 5 are more under 6 than 1, so they should end up getting an opposing pole to 6... which then the increasing current in 2, and 5 are mutually exclusive...   Though that current will dampen by the resistance of the coil... which then counter induce in the original 1 and 6 as their current diminishes but the other remains?   switching is 16ms...
Then in the second step 2, 7 turn on, for 16 ms... then 1, 6 turn off... but really short so whatever current their coils have can continue.... (shorted). 

I don't know... how much ARE the coils coupled?   

---
I do have a question for clarification; the 700 feet of bifilar windings; is that 700 each or total (350 each?) 
700/11 = 63x the wire for outer windings? (based on 11 feet of gotoluc's windings)

----

Someone mentioned a 36 vaned motor... 36 slots had 35 vanes.


Yes, pickup coil.  The idea is to make Pierre clarify what is going on.
When you reach the rotor you will understand that only in two places power is transferred. Left and right side coil (rotor).

My rotor coil is 0.9mm about 300m single wire. 6,67ohm and 850,5mH

See my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE1ilIot8tU

Only one first coil worked.  Time delay is 3 ms.

I'm trying to understand ...




cheors

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Pierre,

Can You help us;

Do you use the principle of Figuera?

like: S|N (coil) N|S (coil) S|N .....N|S .....

or just Back EMF?

It would help in understanding :)


Thank You !

FR:

Pierre pouvez-vous nous aider ?

Utilisez-vous le principe de Clemente Figuera:

Comme ceci : S|N (bobine) N|S (bobine) S|N .....N|S .....

Ou juste le Back EMF?

Celà nous aiderait à comprendre .

Merci.

FixedSys

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....wish I had a 36 channel scope with current probes on each coil :)

Could you use the 16 Analog Inputs of the Mega in a duplex arrangement and log the output via serial for this?

Another advantage of this method is that if there exists a sweet spot in the combination of parameters into the circuit (channels, pulse frequency, pulse width, etc), then you can programmatically iterate over the ranges to cover all possible combinations while logging both the inputs and outputs to later see which combination produced the most interesting results.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 03:28:33 AM by FixedSys »

pmgr

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    • Stop organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners

Yes, pickup coil.  The idea is to make Pierre clarify what is going on.
When you reach the rotor you will understand that only in two places power is transferred. Left and right side coil (rotor).

My rotor coil is 0.9mm about 300m single wire. 6,67ohm and 850,5mH

See my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE1ilIot8tU

Only one first coil worked.  Time delay is 3 ms.

I'm trying to understand ...
Hi r2fpl,


I was watching your video and can't understand what you are saying (not sure what language you are speaking). But one of the things I did notice is that the majority of the windings on your stator look burned out! They look dark and blackened where they come out of stator slots.


Maybe you can shoot a close-up video of the stator to confirm. From what I can see it almost certainly looks like they are burned out.


PmgR

d3x0r

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Could you use the 16 Analog Inputs of the Mega in a duplex arrangement and log the output via serial for this?

Another advantage of this method is that if there exists a sweet spot in the combination of parameters into the circuit (channels, pulse frequency, pulse width, etc), then you can programmatically iterate over the ranges to cover all possible combinations while logging both the inputs and outputs to later see which combination produced the most interesting results.
That's actually a good idea.
probably spend some time to build a quick javascript server that I can use buttons on a webpage to activate things...
reading a analog in can only be done 100,000/sec; (divide by 16 for all of them)   160us resolution for all; 10us resolution for a single one

r2fpl

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What these numbers represent:

digitalWrite(1,HIGH), digitalWrite(13,HIGH), digitalWrite(25,HIGH);

These are the numbers of the transistors.

e.g. digitalWrite(1,HIGH) = first transistor = relay 1,14 = 1coil power on +|-
...

Going in this way we have 2xtriangles and exactly one star 6 arms. NSNSNSNS
Why ? because is compared to relays works on video and schematic circle by Pierre.
If the Pierra program is the same one that works 100% we only have a moving magnetic field nothing more. There is no flow of the stream to the rotor in sufficient energy.

We already know everything.

Up to this point everything is correct but what can be different ? what suits the video and information ?

How many coils are powered and how many receivers? The connection method shows that they all do the same. There remains a different combination of only the stator connections between the coils. If it's the way Pierre drew it:

1. Stopping the current
2. Shorting coils
3. joining AC, Yeahhh ...
1. and 2. together

and if an AC current flows in the circuit, it would explain 60Hz. Not from the network but from the inverter ?

FixedSys

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...reading a analog in can only be done 100,000/sec; (divide by 16 for all of them)   160us resolution for all; 10us resolution for a single one

Consider leaving the Arduino for control and add in a Raspberry Pi with ADCs (say MCP3008 - 8-Channel 10-Bit ADC With SPI Interface) dedicated to logging. Would be cost effective, would give you an order of magnitude more resolution and wouldn't compromise the control side.

r2fpl

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Consider leaving the Arduino for control and add in a Raspberry Pi with ADCs (say MCP3008 - 8-Channel 10-Bit ADC With SPI Interface) dedicated to logging. Would be cost effective, would give you an order of magnitude more resolution and wouldn't compromise the control side.

Raspberry Pi , ohh
It's better to use STM family board.

r2fpl

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Hi r2fpl,


I was watching your video and can't understand what you are saying (not sure what language you are speaking). But one of the things I did notice is that the majority of the windings on your stator look burned out! They look dark and blackened where they come out of stator slots.


Maybe you can shoot a close-up video of the stator to confirm. From what I can see it almost certainly looks like they are burned out.


PmgR


Hi PmgR,

This is illusion like burned out. Colour enamel is deep. Wire is ok. This some resistance i checked again for confirm.

Jeg

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pmgr

Hi pm.
I just finished my stator build and i measured my coils inductances. It is L=7.52mH per coil. Each coil (22 awg) is of a 22.5m length (73T) and this gives me a 1,1 Ohm resistance. The maximum frequency according the equation is about 25Hz. So i wonder if there is any trick that i can do so to raise the frequency up to 50Hz. Any idea?

Regards
Jeg

ps. In resistance calculator i measured just the ohmic resistance and not the reactance of the coil. Reactance at 7,52mH and 50Hz is 2.3 ohms. If i add it with the ohmic resistance then i am again in the right range. But is that a valid consideration?
Thanks

r2fpl

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Why no fields in this places ?

You must compare it with the video part 3 or 4 by Pierre