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Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 64781 times)

Online listener192

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Nope, Each half the code is changing polarity in succession. 5 poles = 60 degrees or one half the code cycle, while Pierre's is 6 poles.
E.g.
HBridge 1-5 is North, next
HBridge 6-10 become South, then FULL off position to collect, this is the double off position, and is seen on Pierre's scope shot.  This is the inductive kickback from the coils and load.
The other two 120 degrees are doing this at the same time.
You always maintain an opposite field at 180 degrees.  You have to have this for an AC output!


The code is running in a repeat loop at 120 degrees with a small rest period before repeating back to the start.
Every 60 degrees the polarity is switching, again this is each half of the code. 
The code is working only at 120 degrees repeating back to 0 degrees.


GotoLuc, is only doing one half of the correct switching, He is not getting a strong polarity of NS across the load!  Swing the last half of the code...and I believe we have something special.  A much stronger potential across the load.


What does a magnet do to the current flow when it shifts from N to S?  Without current flow moving back and forth, you have a very weak AC generator output, right?  Easy questions, just proving a point. :)


Jerdee 





Doesn't that make a discontinuity in the waveform?

Regards

L192

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Offline T-1000

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Since then, there's 2 pages added of discussions which are not related to what Pierre has just shared. Why?... Pierre must be in disbelief of what's going on with people here when he just gave it all away.... if you ask me, that's disrespectful and insulting.
I'm going to go through those 2 pages now and will delete anything that's not related to what Pierre has just shared. There's been more than enough discussion of all kinds of possibilities and enough is enough.
I think that was too harsh approach with deleting posts which also had useful information in regards to why you have almost no current on output coil,etc. Please move them to general discussion thread (which now is locked) instead next time...

Offline konehead

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Hi Ole
Thanks for that mp4 animation. This has had made more sense to me how the fields rotate than 37 pages of written explanation.
My question to everyone here (including Pierre)
Is this how it is done?????  Like is shown in Ole's animation?
I would think the field also flipping polarities every other "segment" would create more power, and not just moving....but I don't know as is usual.

Luc
I agree with T 1000 that is way to harsh of response. Nobody is asking or making you stop research with weird comments or tangential ideas they may post about the DZ generator.
I think Pierre would be more than happy reading any offshoot ideas or related designs people will come up with, fed by their confusion and wonder in how his DZ generator works.
This is human progress in understanding stuff finally and human progress in creativity too, using another idea to create another idea....
Seems to me nobody understand fully the DZ generator and all those WHYS? attached to full understanding - not even Pierre, as he has mentioned too that he does not know exactly why it works so well, so I think you should let the ideas and comments flow how they will,
 it is easy to skip over stuff you think is dumb or insulting....And let Pierre decide if he is insulted by non-understanding or offshoot ideas of his DZ generator.

Offline T-1000

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The answer why almost no current in pickup coils is in the how winding are made in replication attempt. I will repeat myself one more time but each coil is cancelling EMF of previous coil and are not how Pierre did explain in his videos. Back to the basics of three phase motor. Simple as that.


P.S. deletion of my posts which are not trolling here shows disrespect towards forum participants...

Offline Jeg

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Hi L192,

I attach it again. But this time it is a video file (.mp4). I hope this will work as it looks like only the first frame of the animated gif went through. The .mp4 file size is only a fraction of the animated gif file size. Put on repeat mode in the video viewer to see it loop like the original gif-file.

Regards
Ole

Hi Ole
Thanks for the gif file. It represents exactly what sketch is doing. My personal opinion is that two moving poles covering the whole circumference instead of six, might be better because there are more steps per pole which is what we should want here.

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Offline seaad

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A complement pic to Oles animation.

AND I agree to open the closed thread so more "wild" ideas can come thru without disturbing "the builders".

Offline MichelM

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Hi L192,

I attach it again. But this time it is a video file (.mp4). I hope this will work as it looks like only the first frame of the animated gif went through. The .mp4 file size is only a fraction of the animated gif file size. Put on repeat mode in the video viewer to see it loop like the original gif-file.

Regards
Ole

Hello Ole,

good animation. This is the theoretical rotation of magnetic fields as I thought them too. But since the last indications that Pierre has communicated to us, I am not so sure that this is the case. Even if the reels actually seem to be ordered to move the fields such as in the animation, I think we have to think about how he arranged the reels. Notice: the last 6 reels are placed on the top layer; when these six coils are powered simultaneously, I think this produces a field that covers 11 stator grooves, not 6 grooves. I indicate it on the two images below. If this is the case, then magnetic fields are much more unbalanced than the theoretical fields. What do you think ?

FR
Bonjour Ole,

bonne animation. Ceci est la rotation théorique des champs magnétiques tels que je les pensais moi aussi. Mais depuis les dernières indications que Pierre nous a communiquées, je ne suis pas aussi certain que cela se passe ainsi. Même si les bobines semblent effectivement être commandées pour déplacer les champs tels que dans l'animation, je pense qu'il faut réfléchir à la façon dont il a agencé les bobines. Remarquez : les 6 dernières bobines sont placées sur la couche supérieure ; lorsque ces six bobines sont alimentées simultanément, je pense que cela produit un champ qui couvre 11 rainures du stator, et non 6 rainures. Je l'indique sur les deux images ci-dessous. Si tel est le cas, alors on a des champs magnétiques beaucoup plus déséquilibrés qu'avec les champs théoriques. Qu'en pensez-vous ?

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Offline T-1000

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Please note about 5 coils in "11 slot" spot winding wire direction is CCW on top of the rest of coils wire direction which are CW. In that spot the EMF cancellation is in full effect.
Then compare to Luc and L192 replications winding. You will see instant difference.

Cheers!

Online citfta

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Sorry MichelM, but your conclusion is incorrect.  The coils are producing a field that is 5 coils wide, not 11.  I have reattached your drawing.  If you look at the wires on the right side of the coil, they are coming towards you or maybe going away from you.  But the wires on the left side of the coils are going in the OPPOSITE direction.  That means that if the wires on the right are producing a north field then the wires on the left are producing a south field.  I have built motors  using that same principle where I had a north magnet over one set of wires and the south magnet over the other set of wires and it ran just fine.

Offline seaad

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Sorry citfta, but your conclusion is incorrect.  The coils are producing a field that is probably  narrower than 5 coils wide. See my pic above.  :D :D :D

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Offline T-1000

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Sorry citfta, but your conclusion is incorrect.  The coils are producing a field that is probably  narrower than 5 coils wide. See my pic above.  :D :D :D
If all coils are same around stator as those 5 overlapping and the end of each coil ends on +5th position from begining then you have  very narrow space between North and South poles when making 2 poles with 1 coil spacing from each to the next. And this still makes N/S vector in the direction of the ring and not to towards center. This is not what you want in Pierre's replication...


Offline MichelM

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Sorry citfta, but your conclusion is incorrect.  The coils are producing a field that is probably  narrower than 5 coils wide. See my pic above.  :D :D :D

Hi seaad,

I share your opinion. If only these narrow fields act (the rest must still act), the current configuration of the winding of Luc does not have dominant magnetic fields, since its coils cover 6 grooves and are grouped in series of 5 coils. In his case, the 2 windings of all the grooves have fields in opposition. This is perhaps why his rotor is so weakly magnetized.
What I explained above and that I show on this image again, comes in addition and must be taken into consideration. In the configuration of Pierre, any series of 6 coils covers 11 grooves, it's a fact, but what I want to share is the observation that I made: such as Pierre wound his stator, the last 6 coils that he has placed not only cover 11 grooves, but they, and only these last 6 coils, cover the coils already in place in the grooves. This must necessarily change the magnetism of these 6 coils. And when, during the rotation of the fields, when these 6 coils are connected in series, their magnetic field must necessarily be different from the others, since in their 11 grooves, the same magnetic field is directed towards the center of the stator. This concerns about 1/3 of the circumference and not 1/6.

FR
Salut seaad,

je partage votre avis. Si seuls ces champs étroits agissent (le reste doit quand même agir), la configuration actuelle du bobinage de Luc ne possède pas de champs magnétiques dominants, puisque ses bobines couvrent 6 rainures et sont regroupées en séries de 5 bobines. Dans son cas, les 2 bobinages de toutes les rainures présentent des champs en opposition. C'est peut-être pour cela que sont rotor est si faiblement magnétisé.
Ce que j'ai expliqué ci-dessus et que je montre sur cette image à nouveau, vient en complément et doit être pris en considération. Dans la configuration de Pierre, n'importe quelle série de 6 bobines couvre 11 rainures, c'est un fait, mais ce que je souhaite partager, c'est la constatation que j'ai faite : tel que Pierre a bobiné son stator, les 6 dernières bobines qu'il a placées, non seulement couvrent 11 rainures, mais elles, et uniquement ces 6 dernières bobines, recouvrent les bobines déjà en place dans les rainures. Cela doit forcément modifier la magnétisme de ces 6 bobines. Et lorsqu'au cours de la rotation des champs, lorsque ces 6 bobines se trouvent connectées en série, leur champ magnétique doit forcément être différent des autres, puisque dans leurs 11 rainures, le même champ magnétique est dirigé vers le centre du stator. Cela concerne environ 1/3 de la circonférence et non 1/6.

Online listener192

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Hi seaad,

I share your opinion. If only these narrow fields act (the rest must still act), the current configuration of the winding of Luc does not have dominant magnetic fields, since its coils cover 6 grooves and are grouped in series of 5 coils. In his case, the 2 windings of all the grooves have fields in opposition. This is perhaps why his rotor is so weakly magnetized.
What I explained above and that I show on this image again, comes in addition and must be taken into consideration. In the configuration of Pierre, any series of 6 coils covers 11 grooves, it's a fact, but what I want to share is the observation that I made: such as Pierre wound his stator, the last 6 coils that he has placed not only cover 11 grooves, but they, and only these last 6 coils, cover the coils already in place in the grooves. This must necessarily change the magnetism of these 6 coils. And when, during the rotation of the fields, when these 6 coils are connected in series, their magnetic field must necessarily be different from the others, since in their 11 grooves, the same magnetic field is directed towards the center of the stator. This concerns about 1/3 of the circumference and not 1/6.

FR
Salut seaad,

je partage votre avis. Si seuls ces champs étroits agissent (le reste doit quand même agir), la configuration actuelle du bobinage de Luc ne possède pas de champs magnétiques dominants, puisque ses bobines couvrent 6 rainures et sont regroupées en séries de 5 bobines. Dans son cas, les 2 bobinages de toutes les rainures présentent des champs en opposition. C'est peut-être pour cela que sont rotor est si faiblement magnétisé.
Ce que j'ai expliqué ci-dessus et que je montre sur cette image à nouveau, vient en complément et doit être pris en considération. Dans la configuration de Pierre, n'importe quelle série de 6 bobines couvre 11 rainures, c'est un fait, mais ce que je souhaite partager, c'est la constatation que j'ai faite : tel que Pierre a bobiné son stator, les 6 dernières bobines qu'il a placées, non seulement couvrent 11 rainures, mais elles, et uniquement ces 6 dernières bobines, recouvrent les bobines déjà en place dans les rainures. Cela doit forcément modifier la magnétisme de ces 6 bobines. Et lorsqu'au cours de la rotation des champs, lorsque ces 6 bobines se trouvent connectées en série, leur champ magnétique doit forcément être différent des autres, puisque dans leurs 11 rainures, le même champ magnétique est dirigé vers le centre du stator. Cela concerne environ 1/3 de la circonférence et non 1/6.

As Pierre explained, he hand wound the coils thats why they appear as they do. All of the coils polarities are the same in the series connection. Only the current direction is changing the poles North or South.

Regards L192

Online r2fpl

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As Pierre explained, he hand wound the coils thats why they appear as they do. All of the coils polarities are the same in the series connection. Only the current direction is changing the poles North or South.

Regards L192

Pierre explained it! listener192 confirms

Offline shylo

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@ T1000,
I think all of Pierre's coils are wound CW, see mine they are all CW but look a little messed up where I ended.
I'm putting my rotating field on the inside and just using stock windings for the generating coils.
artv

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