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Author Topic: Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated  (Read 64789 times)

Offline listener191

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L192

If you use just few coils instead of 12 in series for single phase it will take lots of amps and will be energy waste.
Also if you watch Pierre's video and see how coils are made they are overlapping just like in car alternator and can be used with 3x12 sets.

EDIT: In Pierre's video I noticed 5 overlapping coils when started from 1st then counted to 5th position going back to stator.

Hi T-1000,

My stator is wound for 30 slots with a 5 coil pole, so 30 coils in a series loop, lapped at a 5 pole pitch.
Basically the 30 slot version of Pierres 36 slot.

36 Turns per coil.

The problem is the harmonics created with this scheme.

If you pulse just a single set of 5 coils with overlap turned off, you can  achieve 80 volts on the rotor with dim illumination of a 25V 230V lamp. Note, this rotor has the  (original 230V generator windings). This is achieved with a 2amp drive.

As soon as you start introducing other coils group, the harmonics start to cause destructive cancellation. I  would be not be surprised if this is what caused the L298N failure(s).

Attached is the test I conducted with 6 coils (no overlap)

Regards

L192

 

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Offline pmgr

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My connection scheme is a little different, I only switch one half bridge at a time on the same board. This reduces the heat dissipation on each L298N.
Also I use the enable lines to switch the transistors, so the high and low side transistors float when enable is low

I achieved a reasonable rotor output waveform until I pushed the setup too hard at about 4A per half bridge. This was after about 20 mins of running. This took out at least 5-6 boards, after one L298N exploded. No heatsink was over about 40 deg C.

I had done this before without problem however , this time we have the shorted coils due to the overlap. In each coil line you could see the overlap current step.

I rechecked all connections and drive signals, everything appears to be in order. There were no apparent voltage spikes on the power +rail. Each board had its +/- power lines taken from a distribution strip with heavy duty cable linking to the super caps.

I have  three spare boards but  I am thinking that I will use relays next.

Disappointed but not surprised.

L192
Luc has similar setup: H bridges are switched by the EN pins (both tied together going to Arduino). Inputs 1-2 are tied to Vcc, inputs 3 and 4 to GND, so bridges are floating as well when Arduino signal is low.
PmgR

Offline T-1000

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Hi T-1000,

My stator is wound for 30 slots with a 5 coil pole, so 30 coils in a series loop, lapped at a 5 pole pitch.
Basically the 30 slot version of Pierres 36 slot.

36 Turns per coil.

The problem is the harmonics created with this scheme.

If you pulse just a single set of 5 coils with overlap turned off, you can  achieve 80 volts on the rotor with dim illumination of a 25V 230V lamp. Note, this rotor has the  (original 230V generator windings). This is achieved with a 2amp drive.

As soon as you start introducing other coils group, the harmonics start to cause destructive cancellation. I  would be not be surprised if this is what caused the L298N failure(s).

I am assuming you still have 3 coils overlapping each other and if lets say:
1) the coil A begin is on 1st pin the coil end is on 4th?
2) the coil B begin is on 2nd pin the coil end is on 5th?
3) the coil C begin is on 3th pin the coil end is on 6th?

Please remind me your coils arrangement on stator.

The reason why am asking is how we make three phase on alternator stator. Please see diagram attached.
You also may try to think what resulting polarity should be on the output coil core which is covering positions from 1th to 3th and from 15th to 18th.
Ideally we should do from 3 phase to 1 phase conversion.

Offline listener191

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I am assuming you still have 3 coils overlapping each other and if lets say:
1) the coil A begin is on 1st pin the coil end is on 4th?
2) the coil B begin is on 2nd pin the coil end is on 5th?
3) the coil C begin is on 3th pin the coil end is on 6th?

Please remind me your coils arrangement on stator.

The reason why am asking is how we make three phase on alternator stator. Please see diagram attached.
You also may try to think what resulting polarity should be on the output coil core which is covering positions from 1th to 3th and from 15th to 18th.
Ideally we should do from 3 phase to 1 phase conversion.

Hi T-1000,

My coils bridge 4 poles, whereas Gotolucs stator bridge 5 poles.

5 coils per N/S pole overlapped 1 slot.


Regards

L192

Offline T-1000

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Hi T-1000,

My coils bridge 4 poles, whereas Gotolucs stator bridge 5 poles.

5 coils per N/S pole overlapped 1 slot.


Regards

L192

Hi L192,

I just tried to see in Excel spreadsheet what output would be like when merging 3 phase arrangement over different amounts of coils.
No joy for 2/4 coils for results. The best was 3 rolling coils around ring.

Please see spreadsheet attached. Maybe you will have some ideas how to properly simulate moving magnetic fields around the ring without too much losses.

Cheers!

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Offline gotoluc

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My coils bridge 4 poles, whereas Gotolucs stator bridge 5 poles.

5 coils per N/S pole overlapped 1 slot.

Regards

L192

Looks like I have a problem.  I spaced my coils 6 slot wide and I'm having terrible results.  PmgR said it shouldn't matter but maybe it does?...  I need opinions as something is not right.

See results: https://youtu.be/aFQB-WOx-Oc

I think we need to use the Propeller controller instead of the Arduino. Any reason why it can't be used?

The below is the program Pmgr modified for me:

/*
  Blink  This example code is in the public domain.
 
  modified 8 May 2014
  by Scott Fitzgerald
 */
 
/* modified by PmgR 4/6/2018 to accomodate 30coil stator */
 
// the setup function runs once when you press reset or power the board
void setup() {
  pinMode( 1, OUTPUT);
  pinMode( 2, OUTPUT);
  pinMode( 3, OUTPUT);
  pinMode( 4, OUTPUT);
  pinMode( 5, OUTPUT);
  pinMode( 6, OUTPUT);
  pinMode( 7, OUTPUT);
  pinMode( 8, OUTPUT);
  pinMode( 9, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(10, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(11, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(12, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(13, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(14, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(15, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(16, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(17, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(18, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(19, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(20, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(21, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(22, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(23, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(24, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(25, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(26, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(27, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(28, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(29, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(30, OUTPUT);
}
 
int x = 0;
 
// the loop function runs over and over again forever
void loop(){
 
  /*Old Pierre code*/
  int y= analogRead(0); //Read out potentiometer setting
  x= map(y,0,1024,1,100); //Map to a delay value from 1ms (50Hz loop speed, 1/3*50Hz magnet speed) to 100ms (0.5Hz loop speed, 1/3*0.5Hz magnet speed).
 
  /* PmgR modifications below*/
  // Change this x delay number to something else to change the frequency:
  // 1ms results in 50Hz
  // 2ms results in 25Hz
  // 3ms results in 16.66Hz
  // 4ms results in 12.5Hz
  // 5ms results in 10Hz
  // 10ms results in 5Hz
  // x=1; //total loop delay is 20*x = 20ms. f=50Hz
  // x=5; //total loop delay is 20*x = 100ms. f=10Hz
 
  digitalWrite( 1,HIGH), digitalWrite(11,HIGH), digitalWrite(21,HIGH);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite(10, LOW), digitalWrite(20, LOW), digitalWrite(30, LOW);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 2,HIGH), digitalWrite(12,HIGH), digitalWrite(22,HIGH);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 1, LOW), digitalWrite(11, LOW), digitalWrite(21, LOW);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 3,HIGH), digitalWrite(13,HIGH), digitalWrite(23,HIGH);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 2, LOW), digitalWrite(12, LOW), digitalWrite(22, LOW);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 4,HIGH), digitalWrite(14,HIGH), digitalWrite(24,HIGH);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 3, LOW), digitalWrite(13, LOW), digitalWrite(23, LOW);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 5,HIGH), digitalWrite(15,HIGH), digitalWrite(25,HIGH);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 4, LOW), digitalWrite(14, LOW), digitalWrite(24, LOW);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 6,HIGH), digitalWrite(16,HIGH), digitalWrite(26,HIGH);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 5, LOW), digitalWrite(15, LOW), digitalWrite(25, LOW);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 7,HIGH), digitalWrite(17,HIGH), digitalWrite(27,HIGH);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 6, LOW), digitalWrite(16, LOW), digitalWrite(26, LOW);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 8,HIGH), digitalWrite(18,HIGH), digitalWrite(28,HIGH);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 7, LOW), digitalWrite(17, LOW), digitalWrite(27, LOW);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 9,HIGH), digitalWrite(19,HIGH), digitalWrite(29,HIGH);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 8, LOW), digitalWrite(18, LOW), digitalWrite(28, LOW);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite(10,HIGH), digitalWrite(20,HIGH), digitalWrite(30,HIGH);
  delay(x);
  digitalWrite( 9, LOW), digitalWrite(19, LOW), digitalWrite(29, LOW);
  delay(x);
 
}

Offline Jeg

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Guys what do you think about the "return" of the coils as Pierre suggested to work on?

In addition if you remember we were wondering what frequency Pierre's meter had measured. We saw the 60Hz but we didn't know if his meter was counting the coil stepping. So if it is possible for Luc or L192 to check this out.

Regards

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Offline listener191

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Guys what do you think about the "return" of the coils as Pierre suggested to work on?

In addition if you remember we were wondering what frequency Pierre's meter had measured. We saw the 60Hz but we didn't know if his meter was counting the coil stepping. So if it is possible for Luc or L192 to check this out.

Regards

Really no coils turn off as such. The previous lead coil just gets a polarity change, so it has a current path through the coils prior to it, back to the next low side switch.

I checked with just a 5 coil group and there is no recovery current back to the supply from the L298N board, while the coils are connected in a series loop.

If you break the coil loop then coil recovery current appears on the L298N supply, back to the cap bank.

L192 

Offline pmgr

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Looks like I have a problem.  I spaced my coils 6 slot wide and I'm having terrible results.  PmgR said it shouldn't matter but maybe it does?...  I need opinions as something is not right.

See results: https://youtu.be/aFQB-WOx-Oc

Luc, how did you connect the LEDs? Did you use a serial resistor with them? If not, each of them is probably at least drawing 20-30mA if not more. Multiply that with 30 and you are drawing 750mA. The Arduino can't supply that and the computer USB can't supply that either (probably only 500mA), yet the battery can supply the current, but the Arduino is turning on and off (Arduino fuse on board is probably heating up and disconnecting; I believe that board has a thermal 500mA fuse).

You should remove your LEDs as the Arduino can't supply that much current directly. Even with a series resistor in place, it might not be able to handle it. This is also why the USB no longer shows up at your computer. The Arduino board simply can't handle the current load and so everything gets messed up.
PmgR

Offline Jeg

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If you break the coil loop then coil recovery current appears on the L298N supply, back to the cap bank.

L192

Thanks L192.
By breaking the loop do you mean keeping one coil off between N and S poles?

Luc
As you correctly said, Leds are an unnecessary load for your Arduino outputs, which demand more total current than your Arduino can provide. 

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Offline pmgr

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    • Stop organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners
Guys what do you think about the "return" of the coils as Pierre suggested to work on?

In addition if you remember we were wondering what frequency Pierre's meter had measured. We saw the 60Hz but we didn't know if his meter was counting the coil stepping. So if it is possible for Luc or L192 to check this out.

Regards
Luc's H-bridges have recovery diodes on them and Luc also shows in his video the negative current (current return back to the source).
PmgR

Offline listener191

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Hi Jeg,

I mean just opening one coil junction, so the coils are not looped.

Regards

L192

Offline MenofFather

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Guys what do you think about the "return" of the coils as Pierre suggested to work on?



Regards
i think, return is back emf going back to source.

Online r2fpl

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i think, return is back emf going back to source.

From diodes and coils.

Offline Jeg

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Thank you guys!

Personally i don't think that by return he means the recovering of the flyback spikes. This by itself alone is not enough to overcome the input consumption. Especially when we speak of about X10 energy amplification.     

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


 

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