@all,

having looked at this site,since the beginning and doing several experiments, i now realize that you can't take the power off of the center fulcrum, without killing the effect.  there is simply not enough torque.  however looking at the water pumping proplems with a very innefficient type of pump even,  i have to ask the stupid question,  has noone ever heard of a "foot valve"?  it seems to work much like a diode, only allowing water to flow in one direction.   when used with air it can effectively increase the distance verticaly that you can pump water by the use of an air tank with a bladder.

it seems to me if we can develop enough head pressure, whith water, and the right water turbine, we should be able to have a closed loop, where we can run the pendulum with the power generated.

lol
sam

Did you come from the Lead Out thread?  Lawrence Tseung goes on at length about the benefits of a foot pump, one way valves, and mixing air and water.  You should probably read his experiments if you are not familiar with them.

Gravity is a polarized, oriented gradient.

Hope that helps.

Edit: Now...what does that mean...concerning inertia?

Hi all -

I'm trying to move the pendulum from the 6 o'clock position by 45 degrees to the right applying the rotor "fins" to the pendulum.    The "fins" slope push the pendulum, allowing it to drop at the end of the "fin".

How to reduce the friction/impact to minimize rotor speed reduction?  Materials?  Bearings?  Designs?

Scratch this idea and instead do "_____" ?

Thanks for any ideas!

CH

I don't think I had seen that concept before.

This is a great idea I think. I don't really care what anyone else thinks, I like it :-)

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1763.0;attach=17840;image)

gradually push the pendulum sidewards.

Bessler describes that.

Clocks of course use an escapement mechanism.

As a note:

Keep looking for ways to make gravity powered devices.

I already know how to do it but I'm trying to find attention for my permanent magnet overunity invention.

http://forum.go-here.nl/viewtopic.php?p=750
View topic - Perpetual motion made simple.

That anyone can understand.

 

Newton?s laws remain intact and so does CoE. There is NO overunity in the device as designed by Milkovic.

Hans von Lieven

As I cannot upload the avi to the server here because of its size I have put it on my website.
http://keelytech.com/overunity/milkovicdouble.avi you can download it from there.

Hi Hans,
nice animation. Well done.
Yes, now I see, what you mean.

You mean a 2 coupled oscillator system where the energy swings from one
oscillator back to the other oscillator and back and forth again.

Well, maybe you can post your WM2D file.

I think the Milkovic device can only work,
if the 2 fulcrum lever arms have a different length.
Then there is the needed asymmetry there and THEN
ONLY can the gravity energy conversion work.

The principle to extract gravity energy is to modify the weight
of one fulcrum lever arm and thus lift the other arm up and down
with a much higher force x distance = Energy.

This can only work, if both lever arms have a different length.

So your example does not fit or just describes the case
where the energy amplification has a factor = 1 so COP = 1.

You have to choose the right setup parameters to get COP > 1
that means to set the lever arm length on each side right.

Regards, Stefan.
P.S: Also we have another slightly different setup as in your example,
cause we "rectify" the motion of the pendulum who does the output load work
(pump action in the last example)
cause we just lift and release a weight VERTICALLY, so it can not swing
horizontally, so we "rectify" or "limit" the dimensions it can swing in...( so to say)

If you look again to the guy who is pushing the pendulum at the blue
pump, no way he is using more than 1 to 2 Watts for this action
and the pump needs at least 10 Watts including all the friction to pump up
the water.
Also you see, that it also does not use the leverage of blue pump handle
which you can see, that it is not used anymore, so the
Milkovic lever arm has to pull the pump rod with lots of force
to directly lift the water up.
So the pump device has at least a COP of 5 in my opinion.

Upon further evaluation ? I?m not sure it?s over-unity.  In fact ? I think what the device/principle is really doing is:

Applying a long stroke/low power impulse to the pendulum

And converting it to a short stroke/high power impulse to the anvil end.

Thus ? just changing the frequency of the energy.

Someone earlier mentioned something along these lines - to long a topic to search for who......

Anyway ? the device and ideas are interesting.  It?s application as a water pump seems efficient.  Low power applied to pendulum results in high power driving the pump.  Thus the ?work? required by the user is reduced significantly.

A small, elderly woman could do the work that would normally require a strong, young man to do.

- - -

No takers on refinement ideas for my "cog fins" idea?

CH

@hansvonlieven

I have made a computer simulation of my proposed demonstration using WorkingModel2005. Only gravity has been programmed into the model, no drag or friction has been allowed for to show what happens in the system without outside influence in an ideal scenario. If there was any excess energy it would show up here since there are no other influencing factors.

LOL, hans you don't honestly believe a 2bit simulation can accurately describe reality do you  :'(, the first real lesson I learned in the field is that all the sims and calculations in the world cannot prepare you for reality, it has a way of making even the most educated persons look silly sometimes.
I have built the balance beam-dual pendulum on precision bearings, fully adjustable, using weights from 5 to 15 lbs, and I would agree that there is a large oscillation(beat) or transfer of energy between the pendulums . But there is more to see than your simulation is going to show you, one is the fact that the balance beam moves with this beat through a given range of motion proportional to the pendulums period of oscillation, another is that a dampening effect in the beat has no relevance to the period of oscillation in the pendulums nor to the transfer of energy. Another is that should the period of oscillation be very large the balance beam will make 360 Deg rotations and in the right context the upper pendulum will fall through a vertical line drawn through the center of rotation and accelerate the balance beam, I learned all this in 15 minutes ---- Milkovic has been doing this for Years---- you do the math on that one.

@ hansvonlieven

Try the following experiment. Use the Milkovic arrangement with the counterweight on the other arm as designed and doing some work as in hammering an anvil. Start the pendulum with a measured push, let it run its course until all energy is expended and the pendulum comes to a standstill. Count the number of oscillations.

I tried this experiment as well,  I could not make anything work as claimed but have yet to admit it cannot be done.

@hansvonlieven

If you move toward the fulcrum of the arm of lever the weight of right, the system it behaves in different way. The weight of left salt and it regularly goes down in how much the program of simulation for smaller angles has smaller errors. I have worked in the programs of mechanical simulation as the CSMP, and I know that the simulation happens through enough exact differential equations for small variations, but less and less exact for ample variations.
Don't trust too much such programs, kind if, as in the case of Milkovic we enter the world of the chaotic motions. Sooner or later the pendulum of left certainly starts to scillate, but more than I approach to the right weight, and therefore I considerably increase the mass of it, different it will be the behavior of the left weight. Is sure that there are couples of values, both in the masses of the pendulums and for the positions of application point, that can bring to a stable system as the Lagrangian point L1-L2-L3 of the planet orbits.
The interaction among the two masses is of fact an action of smaller order, respect other actions measured by Milkovic. As I already told you, the system of Milkovic seems to operate as a diode, obviously it doesn't create energy.
Then it doesn't seem to produce energy, but simply to exploit it in correct way.
However it needs to make some measures him to a real device, that operates under the same chaotic conditions of the Milkovic device.
However the example from you done it is stupendous for his genial simplicity!

Ciao
Adriano