G'day Eddy,

There are a number of ways to keep the pendulum in the "sweet spot". The old time honoured method is of course the pendulum clock escapement. The other way is to use a 555 timer and an electromagnet. Since the resonant frequency is a result of the length of the pendulum alone, and since this frequency is incredibly stable, the timer can be set to deliver a push at the optimum time. You can also set the duty cycle of the timer and therewith set the amount of force you add into the system.

If you need more information on this please ask.

Btw. Good job and a lot of imagination on your prototype. Keep it up, you have talent.

Hans von Lieven

so what are you saying? over unity is possible with this system?

@ Free Energy,

No, at this stage I would not go as far as this. By the same token I have not completely discarded the idea either.

The main problem with the device is its erratic behaviour. If the energy that causes this can be channelled in the desired direction perhaps it is possible to extract more energy from the system than we put in.

What we are dealing with is essentially a double pendulum. They behave in a strange way and become more and more chaotic as time goes by or as energy input increases. It is impossible to mathematically predict the behaviour of such an arrangement over any length of time.

The only way to control it at the moment is to severely dampen the reaction with counterweights, springs and so forth, which eat up energy at a furious pace. If that energy can be channelled it might become a different story.

Below is a simulation of a double pendulum. This animated GIF was taken from a physics site and is authoritative. It is easy to rig this up and observe the phenomenon yourself. Just add a balance arm beyond the fulcrum and add a dampening weight and you have the Milkovic device.

Hans von Lieven

G'day change,

I think you are misunderstanding the system. If you have a close look at my animation on the previous page you will see there are two complete strokes (up and down) for every complete cycle of the pendulum (forward and return).

Where the alleged overunity comes in is in the power exerted on those up and down strokes compared with the power required to keep the pendulum moving.

I have not found usable overunity that could be harnessed to perpetuate the motion not to mention being able to extract work.

In spite of its simplicity of construction we are dealing here with quite a complex system as far as the different forces generated and their interactions are concerned.

The jury is still out on this one but even if someone manages to build a self runner using this system, don't expect it to revolutionise power generation.

Hans von Lieven

even if someone manages to build a self runner using this system, don't expect it to revolutionise power generation.

why not? i would put into use for myself and share it with friends, etc.

G'day all,

I wouldn't put too much stock in my "design". There are a number of things wrong with it that are not easy to overcome. It was never meant as a design to which a machine should be built, it was more an illustration of a possible approach. Sort of like a workout at the mental gym :-)

The system to function at all relies on resonance. Key to it is keeping the pendulum moving at its resonant frequency. Now normally, like in a pendulum clock, that would not be much of a problem, this has been solved centuries ago with the escapement mechanism. So why don't we use that?

Well, for one, the pendulum's fulcrum in a clock is in a fixed position. In the Milkovic device it is not. Here it moves in an arc relative to the fixed fulcrum of the balance beam. This in effect makes the balance arm a pendulum in its own right, with its own resonant frequency. The balance arm is moved solely by the centripetal forces that develop in the pendulum. It is important to understand this. As the pendulum reverses swing the centripetal forces are temporarily suspended and the balance beam because of its counterweight moves upwards. Since for every complete cycle of the pendulum there are two such points, the balance beam moves at TWICE the frequency of the pendulum.

We no longer have a clean relationship between resonant frequencies because now we have a natural frequency (the pendulum) and a forced frequency (the balance arm)

These two are antagonistic to each other resulting in erratic behaviour. Milkovic compensates for this by pushing the pendulum with his finger at what he judges to be an opportune moment. A mechanical device is not that flexible.

There are a number of other antagonistic frequencies that develop in the device, to go into this here would exceed the scope of this post. Perhaps I should write a paper on this when I have the chance.

The trick with this device would be to design it in such a way where all emerging vibrations are in a harmonic relationship to each other thus creating what Keely called a "Neutral Centre".

This is easier said than done. Perhaps you will understand now why I am putting so much work and research into this device and how it interfaces with my attempt to replicate Keely. Here we have a mechanical analogy to Keely's acoustic system. Interesting stuff indeed.

Hans von Lieven

It would be easy to drive a pendulum with a Bedini coil. They are bidirectional and you can control the amount of drive to the pendulum.
If you built the pendulum, like I did the Milkodini, on a wheel with only 4 or 5 magnets, you could swing the pendulum as high as you want at it's natural frequency.
This coil is very efficient and would provide all the drive you need for a 10 to 15 lb pendulum.
Dealing with the secondary is a whole different can of worms.

The period must be the same.
Pendulum and lever must move in synchrony

G'day Eddy,

I will post simulations soon of different layouts. This particular arrangement shows very graphically what you are up against.

Believe it or not, this is actually the optimum harmonic combination. It generates the most energy with the least losses. The natural frequency of the balance beam is one octave above the natural frequency of the pendulum. Any attempt to bring these erratic movements under control like shorter pendulum, springs, discord between balance beam and so forth will get the vibrations under some control but will also cost you much of the available energy.

I have a few ideas of how maximum energy can be obtained without creating rogue frequencies but the system is still incomplete, though promising.

You are correct when you say that a very short pendulum length diminishes the problem albeit it does not cure it altogether.

Hans von Lieven