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Author Topic: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !  (Read 1263866 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2006, 05:21:49 PM »
Hi abassign,

I am not so keen on mathematics but I found an analysis of this mechanical oscillation system, see link:
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Mathematical_analisys_Tosic_english.pdf

Maybe you could figure out something about input/output ratio??

Gyula

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Offline stevewal2

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2006, 05:24:59 PM »
It would'nt be difficult to use an electromagnet to attract the pendulem in certain parts of it's swing to keep it going. But I'm thinking that any method for continuing the swing should not interfere with the up and down movement of the fulcrum.

Very interesting devise though.  Hopefully get some replications soon with electrical unput and output.


Offline lltfdaniel1

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2006, 05:53:27 PM »
this is not about this but, you have to understand, that windows is a bugging device..

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=279939&page=6


Offline mflynn44

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2006, 06:03:25 PM »
Interesting video. Well, appearances are often deceiving. You can bet that they have tried everything they could think of to close the loop. Since that apparently hasn't been done, it's probably another scam.


Offline Gregory

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2006, 06:48:55 PM »
Guys,

I am just wondering why are you jumping into this too deep...
Nothing new here. This is a lever and a heavy pendulum, not as special. Every child out of primary (or maybe secondary) school can have the knowledge to throw together a similar device. This is the point.

It does what it does, exactly as He demonstrated. But not overunity. The loop cannot be closed just in that simple way...
However it brings on some interesting possibilities, which suggest that these experiments has real value in it, really worth to study and think about it deeper.

And "sadly" this is the best video I have ever seen about this kind of (gravity) devices.

Cheers,
Greg

P.S.: BTW, this is not 12 times more output than input.

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2006, 06:48:55 PM »
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Offline mikestocks2006

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2006, 07:04:29 PM »
Interesting video. Well, appearances are often deceiving. You can bet that they have tried everything they could think of to close the loop. Since that apparently hasn't been done, it's probably another scam.

There is an easy way to prove if this is OU. Fully mechanical way too.

Build the setup as shown e.g. the one with the hammer.
1. Hold the hammer (output arm) down fixed with a screw or a tie or a vice so it is motionless
2. Move the pendulum to a fixed height from its resting position
3. Record the weight of the pendulum
4. record the height and let go
5. record the amount of time it takes to come to a stop.(only needed to measure friction losses on the pendulum side)

All the original energy put into the system will have been dissipated into friction (air, pivot etc) we can even calculate the amount of energy lost per cycle due to friction by counting the number of swings it takes to stop etc. (Ein = Mpend x G x Hpend)
Ein= energy in, Mpend= Mass of pendulum, G=acceleration of grav H = height

Next
6. Attach a flywheel/crancksafht link to the output arm. (convert linear movement up/down to rotational)
7. On the shaft of the flywheel tie a string and a known weight and let it hung
8. Measure the distance (vertical) the weight has moved by the action of the string being wrapped around the shaft. When the system comes to a stop.

Eout=Mweight x G x Hweight

With claims of energy out is 12 x energy in, friction is non important for all practical purposes.

If Eout is measured greater than E in then it is an OU device.

If that?s the case  one can easily couple the flywheel back to the pendulum to give it ?small push? on every cycle to assure self sustaining system plus energy to spare.
An interesting system nevertheless, with frequency and harmonic resonance implications.

Note if one wants to measure friction losses on the rest of the system (main output arm, flywheel, other bearing surfaces it's easily done too.) Again with 12 to 1, friction is basically non issue here.

Offline allcanadian

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2006, 07:28:53 PM »
I read Mr. Mikovic's web site about a year ago and found this machine very interesting. As well it relates directly to gravity wheels,I made a post here in the forum describing how a mass can dissapear from a rotational system(a circle).
Basically if the pendulum is at the far left upper position, the center of rotation see's no mass acting downward, it produces a force to the left only,so the center of rotation does not move. When the pendulum is at the bottom of the swing it has centrifugal force plus gravity acting downward on the mass, moving the center of rotation downward. Next when in the upper right position, as the pendulum stops it again becomes massless relative to the point of rotation.
So how does this machine differ from known systems?
One asymetrical system not conservative is the centrifugal force component which acts only in line with gravity. Another asymetrical system is gravity acting on the mass "only" in the lower position, as I said when the mass is in the upper positions decelerating it losses all mass relative to the center of rotation.
This machine has zero resemblance to conventional pendulum systems when you alalyze it properly.

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2006, 07:28:53 PM »
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Offline konduct

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2006, 07:58:18 PM »
I've got a non scientific test for this device!  I'll stick my finger in the pendulum side and a cynic can stick their finger in the hammer side and we can see who wins!

Offline pg46

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2006, 08:10:15 PM »
Good one konduct!

Offline Katalinski

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2006, 08:15:46 PM »
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Offline mikestocks2006

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2006, 08:26:30 PM »
A common mistake, is equating force with energy. Take an example of a common straight lever (ends A, B) with pivot at point C between A and B.
Place the pivot close to A so e.g. AC=1/10 of CB.
It will take a force of 10 times more at A to hold B
1 pound at B will require 10 pounds at A. Is this common lever OU?
Just an illustration :)

Offline allcanadian

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2006, 08:35:46 PM »
It could be if the 10 pounds at A was not supplied by gravity but the so called no-existant force of cetrifugal action.


Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2006, 11:51:35 PM »
yes i like the flywheel idea. still we would have to build it to see some real results.

Offline nwman

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2006, 12:27:42 AM »
Another thing that makes it fishy beside being around for so long is that he is trying to sell things on his site. A man with such a potentially grate device should be rolling in the money and not selling books at $3.77US. Just saying this to keep grounded. I still wont rule it out. It can quickly get confusing when you have multiple rotational forces acting upon each other. So much so that you can confuse data. I do believe gravity is a power source. I'm still working on it.

Tim


Offline nwman

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2006, 12:38:15 AM »
One thought on how to make it a loop:

Use the flywheel setup to generate electrical power.

Make the pendulum have a small electric motor on it that can pull the weight on the pendulum up the pendulum arm.

Then you could keep lifting the weight up to maintain the pendulum action without disturbing the swinging. I think?

Anyone know how afficient you can get a generator to motor transfer? I saw one online that was only 60% but I would imagine given higher quality components you could get up to 95%?

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/genmot.html

Tim

 

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Re: 12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2006, 12:38:15 AM »

 

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