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Solid States Devices => Resonance Circuits and Systems => Topic started by: D.R.Jackson on February 11, 2018, 06:20:46 PM

Title: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: D.R.Jackson on February 11, 2018, 06:20:46 PM
Can we demonstrate over unity energy?  I ask this because of some circuit experiments I did years ago I have in the half baked section of topics here at this site.  Using those same circuits in a demonstration I now have I can say that when using resonant circuits you can demonstrate over unity energy, but the problem then becomes one of whether you can tap into that energy and use it without losses. So lets look at those circuit ideas again and see what we can do, if anything.

One thing we have to be careful about is allowing the definition of things as they are being defined by many enthusiast in the Tesla Tech genre of interest to influence our interpretation of things, we can easily forget that the instantaneous power of a waveform may be higher than the input power waveform but its period will be less in terms of total period of power over the wave cycle resulting in the average power of the output power wave cycle being less than the input cycle, so instantaneous peak power will not be the same as the input power of a sine wave source of energy.  In fact it will be less, and it is upon this criteria that we will make or break whether or not over unity energy can be produced from any sort of magnetic circuit using AC power input.  I have made this mistake before and it is easy to forget, as we take into account the definition of things we find here on the internet, such as that of there being latent energy or natural energy in resonant magnetic circuits that lends to the equation.  We can somewhat believe that this definition is true as you will see in the following.



Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: D.R.Jackson on February 11, 2018, 06:26:40 PM
In this circuit we seem to have a scenario where in comparing sinewave input power to output power across capacitor C1 is over unity.  Furthermore at the moment we are not computing input power from the circuitry that drives the 1 kHz base of the transistor which adds to the sum of input power, you see unless we can come up with a low power input source of use, such as a solar cell to power the oscillator circuit that drives the base of Q1 we can not say we have over unity energy, but with respect to the main power source in the current scenario we do see that this circuit and amplify the output energy.  The question here is whether or not we can take the energy out of the circuit and make use of it?
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: D.R.Jackson on February 11, 2018, 06:39:50 PM
Now the question of instantaneous peak power versus input power comes into play as we attempt to take power out of this circuit.  In this circuit (below) we have added a transformer made of primary L3 and secondary L4 to make use of the power in R1, where it appears that the output power looks to be a little over unity since in comparing the period and peak of the output power of R1 to the input power, we have a strong contender for demonstrating over unity power with reference to the input power source alone.  Now unless our oscillator source for our sinewave input to the base of Q1 can be in the microwatt range we will destroy our scenario when we add that power to the sum of power input into this circuit.

Now another thing occurs here and it is whether or not our eyes see things right or whether or not the two power wave trains will average out to reveal that the output average power is equal to or less than the input?  This is the problem I have with this circuit.  What is the actual case of things here?  Furthermore it makes me wonder if we will ever be able to make use of such things?  We have losses we realize the moment we attempt to take power off this circuit.  If there were perhaps some sort of transformer out there we could use in this circuit to make it perform even better that would be the thing.

In this circuit I have attempted to resolve the instantaneous peak power versus input power problem the best I can.
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: D.R.Jackson on February 11, 2018, 06:41:19 PM
The circuit for the previous comment.
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: D.R.Jackson on February 11, 2018, 06:52:23 PM
In doing the input power calculations for this circuit I have had to add a minus sign to invert the power above the zero axis to compare with the output power, other wise it is below the axis and hard to compare as when laid on top so I use -V(n005)*I(V2) to make the power positive on the graph.  The waveform and peak power is all the same just a mirror image of it in the positive half of the graph.
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: D.R.Jackson on February 12, 2018, 12:05:59 AM
Ok this is what I have so far to answer this question:

Here is another demonstration of how to further things (see circuit diagram and simulation bellow), and try to answer some of my own questions.  In this version of my circuit I have decided I need somewhere for my AC current through L1 to go besides the power supply, where it creates an undesired current through the 12V battery (I decided to increase this voltage instead of using the 10V DC I used earlier) where C5 is added to provide this idea.  Furthermore D1 is used to block any AC from going into the power supply.

The result of this is the plot seen in the red for the power of V1 written as an equation in the software analysis as -V(v1_in)*I(V1) which is V*I and the minus sign merely inverts it into the positive plane of the graph.  The output power for R1 then is the green waveform
using the equation V(v_out)*I(R1) which is V*IR1.  And finally the power running through the transistor is the blue waveform which is V(q1c)*Ic(Q1).

What I did here is sort of intuitive, having had this same idea in the past but the wrong circuit concept to use it with, and fortunately in this circuit it has worked for me, now I have a demonstration that defies even my own expectations.  Here I have given circulation AC currents another path to follow instead of the power supply where it would only take power away from the over unity scenario.

Now the thing with this circuit is that everything is relative to the type of transistor I am using in the model, and hence its performance and so collector impedance, which means that everything in the circuit would have to be mathematically changed to use another transistor in the circuit, and so this is what electrical engineers are for, to backwards engineer things and re-engineer them with circuit design equations, so I will have to tackle some of that myself.

In review of this transistor I see that I am in no way exceeding its parameters which is good, and as can be seen the collector wattage is around 450 mW but as a small duration instantaneous peak (very small period) as compared to the period or duration of the 1 kHz wave cycle input to this circuit.  You can review a NPX data sheet version of this transistor using this link to an online PDF file: https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/2N5550_5551.pdf

Now I re-tackled my old circuits to see what I did wrong the first time around with the half baked idea, and to show why I was wrong by disproving my circuits. This only made me ask more question and conceive of experiments to use to cover all the basis of disproving everything. 

The the final thing we would have to do with this circuit is to provide a signal source to Q1 that is extremely low in power, in the microwatt range, or use feedback from the output of this circuit to create and oscillation loop to excite Q1 into oscillation and I have tried to tackle that somewhat recently but would have to spend more time on that. 

One thing I did not use much at all except in the output section was resonant circuits, instead I used high levels of inductance which explains using the 1 Henry winding's of the transformer on the collector of Q1 and the 0.25 Henry winding's on the output transformer.

I would say now, we might have something that some folk will want to explore and see how far they can take.  I will provide the LTSpice file for this model here for use if you want. 
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: partzman on February 12, 2018, 05:04:02 PM
DR,

The excess energy your sim indicates is being supplied by the energy contained in C1.  If you check the initial condition of C1 prior to running the sim, it will indicate C1 has 10v dc applied.  If you plot this voltage over time, you will see that it decreases as C1 supplies energy to the circuit.  If you then calculate this energy loss, add it to you input energy consumed from V1 and then compare to the output energy across R1, you will find the COP<1.

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: D.R.Jackson on February 13, 2018, 08:18:16 PM
DR,

The excess energy your sim indicates is being supplied by the energy contained in C1.  If you check the initial condition of C1 prior to running the sim, it will indicate C1 has 10v dc applied.  If you plot this voltage over time, you will see that it decreases as C1 supplies energy to the circuit.  If you then calculate this energy loss, add it to you input energy consumed from V1 and then compare to the output energy across R1, you will find the COP<1.

Regards,
Pm

Ok that was interesting and so I had to check that although the software uses AC analysis on this capacitor and shows that it starts off at 0V and charges up over time.  Furthermore the output of the circuit is AC and any DC in the capacitor would have nothing to do with the AC output through a transformer into R1.  Here is the analysis of C1 note I am using an updated model I have been working on where the capacitors are renamed in a logical order so C1 is now C2 and this is the charge up plot of the circuit.

At the moment that this capacitor fully charges about 6.4 seconds into the simulation a 7.6 Hz oscillation begins that places a charge on C1 in this circuit (connected to D1 and L1) that increases the charge on C1 to 22V and then the requirement for power from V1 is diminished down to 380 micro-watt, since the circuit now has 22V DC as the power input, that is in the simulation I have for download here:

http://overunity.com/17603/a-half-baked-idea-re-envisioned/
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: partzman on February 13, 2018, 09:48:08 PM
Ok that was interesting and so I had to check that although the software uses AC analysis on this capacitor and shows that it starts off at 0V and charges up over time.  Furthermore the output of the circuit is AC and any DC in the capacitor would have nothing to do with the AC output through a transformer into R1.  Here is the analysis of C1 note I am using an updated model I have been working on where the capacitors are renamed in a logical order so C1 is now C2 and this is the charge up plot of the circuit.

At the moment that this capacitor fully charges about 6.4 seconds into the simulation a 7.6 Hz oscillation begins that places a charge on C1 in this circuit (connected to D1 and L1) that increases the charge on C1 to 22V and then the requirement for power from V1 is diminished down to 380 micro-watt, since the circuit now has 22V DC as the power input, that is in the simulation I have for download here:

http://overunity.com/17603/a-half-baked-idea-re-envisioned/

DR,

All your previous sims on this thread prior to my post #6 were run in the transient mode not AC.  The difference being that initial dc conditions are taken into account prior to simulation in the transient mode but not taken into account in the ac mode.  In regards to your apparent OU it really doesn't matter as energy is still required to charge C1 and must be taken into account.

For example I've attached two sims of your circuit with both taken in the transient mode.  BTW, let me explain that V3 is a zero voltage source which is used as a lossless current sensor.

In the first pix, C1 has an initial voltage of 10v dc due to being coupled to V1 thru L1,L2, and L3.  The plot cursor for V(vc1) shows that C1 has dropped to 9.9997311v at the end of the simulation which equates to a loss of (10^2 - 9.9997311^2) *1 *.5 = 2.689mJ.  The plot math shows an input energy consumed of 3.024mJ and an output energy of 5.397mJ.  Therefore the COP = 5.397/(2.689 +  3.024) = .944 .

The second pix has an initial condition command which set the starting voltage across C1 and the starting current thru L1 to zero which now allows the circuit to start with zero dc voltage or current conditions which would be equivalent to the start in an AC mode simulation.  C2 is disconnected to clean up the plot as it has no effect on these energy measurements.  Now we can see C1 or V(vc1) starting to charge from V1 and we see an ending voltage of ~4.362v which equates to an energy level of ~9.51J.  The plot math shows an input consumption of 43.75J with the output energy produced being only 77.51mJ. 

As I previously stated, you must account for the energy in C1 to arrive at an accurate conclusion as to whether the device is OU or not.

Regards,
Pm

Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: D.R.Jackson on February 14, 2018, 12:27:01 AM
DR,

All your previous sims on this thread prior to my post #6 were run in the transient mode not AC.  The difference being that initial dc conditions are taken into account prior to simulation in the transient mode but not taken into account in the ac mode.  In regards to your apparent OU it really doesn't matter as energy is still required to charge C1 and must be taken into account.

For example I've attached two sims of your circuit with both taken in the transient mode.  BTW, let me explain that V3 is a zero voltage source which is used as a lossless current sensor.

In the first pix, C1 has an initial voltage of 10v dc due to being coupled to V1 thru L1,L2, and L3.  The plot cursor for V(vc1) shows that C1 has dropped to 9.9997311v at the end of the simulation which equates to a loss of (10^2 - 9.9997311^2) *1 *.5 = 2.689mJ.  The plot math shows an input energy consumed of 3.024mJ and an output energy of 5.397mJ.  Therefore the COP = 5.397/(2.689 +  3.024) = .944 .

The second pix has an initial condition command which set the starting voltage across C1 and the starting current thru L1 to zero which now allows the circuit to start with zero dc voltage or current conditions which would be equivalent to the start in an AC mode simulation.  C2 is disconnected to clean up the plot as it has no effect on these energy measurements.  Now we can see C1 or V(vc1) starting to charge from V1 and we see an ending voltage of ~4.362v which equates to an energy level of ~9.51J.  The plot math shows an input consumption of 43.75J with the output energy produced being only 77.51mJ. 

As I previously stated, you must account for the energy in C1 to arrive at an accurate conclusion as to whether the device is OU or not.

Regards,
Pm

I like the simulation but its still not the same circuit, you need to add D1 and C1 as I have it in the last circuit diagram I post before yours here, I would like to see that simulation and have a copy to run if that is ok.  But this information so far is helpful, please not that D1 and C1 in the last circuit model are a part of what I have been doing with this circuit.
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: partzman on February 14, 2018, 02:42:23 AM
I like the simulation but its still not the same circuit, you need to add D1 and C1 as I have it in the last circuit diagram I post before yours here, I would like to see that simulation and have a copy to run if that is ok.  But this information so far is helpful, please not that D1 and C1 in the last circuit model are a part of what I have been doing with this circuit.

OK, here is your latest circuit with several changes to the sim.  R2 was added to help the sim converge thus speeding it up plus, I removed the "skip initial operating point" (uic) in the simulation command as it produced a large current transient at startup due to the charging of C5 from V1 which then reduced the plot viewing amplitude of any subsequent current traces.  I have also added the initial command statement (.ic) however so C1 starts with no charge.  Also, V(tp1) is offset 10v to separate it from V(vc1) for ease of viewing.  These changes in no way affect the overall energy measurements of the simulation.

The sim plot has both cursors on V(vc1) which indicates the voltage change on C1.  Cursor1 is placed at the point when the voltage on C1 is at it's peak and cursor2 is placed at the end of the sim.  The energy lost In C1 between these cursors is (22.712025^2-21.424129^2) *1 * .5 = 28.42J.

The plot math shows the input energy over the 60s period to be 273.5J and the output energy produced in R1 is 27.955J.  So, the COP = 27.995/(28.42+273.5) = .093.

For observation, the large amount of energy consumed from start to 6.46s is mostly to charge C1.  From that point on, C1 supplies nearly all the energy to the circuit and is depleted over time.  We have also neglected the energy to initially charge C5 to 12v which would amount to 7.2mJ.

I have attached the .asc file for you to play with.

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: D.R.Jackson on February 14, 2018, 03:18:49 AM
OK, here is your latest circuit with several changes to the sim.  R2 was added to help the sim converge thus speeding it up plus, I removed the "skip initial operating point" (uic) in the simulation command as it produced a large current transient at startup due to the charging of C5 from V1 which then reduced the plot viewing amplitude of any subsequent current traces.  I have also added the initial command statement (.ic) however so C1 starts with no charge.  Also, V(tp1) is offset 10v to separate it from V(vc1) for ease of viewing.  These changes in no way affect the overall energy measurements of the simulation.

The sim plot has both cursors on V(vc1) which indicates the voltage change on C1.  Cursor1 is placed at the point when the voltage on C1 is at it's peak and cursor2 is placed at the end of the sim.  The energy lost In C1 between these cursors is (22.712025^2-21.424129^2) *1 * .5 = 28.42J.

The plot math shows the input energy over the 60s period to be 273.5J and the output energy produced in R1 is 27.955J.  So, the COP = 27.995/(28.42+273.5) = .093.

For observation, the large amount of energy consumed from start to 6.46s is mostly to charge C1.  From that point on, C1 supplies nearly all the energy to the circuit and is depleted over time.  We have also neglected the energy to initially charge C5 to 12v which would amount to 7.2mJ.

I have attached the .asc file for you to play with.

Regards,
Pm

Ok I will look at the simulation and thank you I appreciate the file.
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: TinselKoala on February 14, 2018, 04:26:43 AM
Quote from: pm
The plot math shows the input energy over the 60s period to be 273.5J and the output energy produced in R1 is 27.955J.  So, the COP = 27.995/(28.42+273.5) = .093.

Beautiful work as usual pm. 

Where does the excess input energy go, then? Is it dissipated in the internal resistances of components such as the transistor and R2? Can we be sure that these resistances aren't dissipating more than they "should"?

I haven't looked at the sim files myself so I don't know where all the power-dissipating components are.
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: partzman on February 14, 2018, 02:30:59 PM
Beautiful work as usual pm. 

Where does the excess input energy go, then? Is it dissipated in the internal resistances of components such as the transistor and R2? Can we be sure that these resistances aren't dissipating more than they "should"?

I haven't looked at the sim files myself so I don't know where all the power-dissipating components are.

Thanks TK!  The energy is dissipated in the load, circuit switching losses, coil resistances, etc.  Actually DR's circuit is not as inefficient as it appears in the last sim.  If C1 is replaced with a 10ufd cap and the sim is then run until the circuit stabilizes, the COP is ~ .93 and this could be improved upon with mosfet switching and some timing.  Unfortunately it is still conservative.

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: partzman on February 14, 2018, 02:38:06 PM
Ok I will look at the simulation and thank you I appreciate the file.

You're welcome.  As I pointed out above, your circuit is not as inefficient as it might appear in my last sim.  If the sim was allowed to run long enough to consume the energy in C1 that you've already paid for, the efficiency would show a marked improvement. Try changing C1 to 10ufd plus you could also measure the "on" time of the 2N5550 to determine the pulse width required to drive a mosfet.  These changes should increase your present efficiency.

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: forest on February 15, 2018, 09:42:27 AM
I see you are experts in LtSpice and electronics. Can you help me ? I have one interesting problem to solve electronically . I need advice if it's possible and how.
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: partzman on February 15, 2018, 03:18:08 PM
I see you are experts in LtSpice and electronics. Can you help me ? I have one interesting problem to solve electronically . I need advice if it's possible and how.

Forest,

I'm certainly not an expert but I would be willing to help if possible.  Not all circuitry can be successfully or accurately simulated such as unusual transformer arrangements, non-linear magnetics, etc.  LtSpice does have a good forum on Yahoo with lots of examples, circuits, models, and general help in the use of the software.  There is a help section in LtSpice but it can be rather cryptic for a newb so the forum can really be good source to help understand the commands and features.

Anyway, describe what you need and we'll see if something can be worked out.

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: forest on February 15, 2018, 10:48:08 PM
The issue seems simple and maybe it is , but I'm lost.
How to make electronically DC CURRENT to rise across resistor in triangle wave from some small value (above zero) to the maximum current (directed by Ohm law) and again to small value. I know it can be done using kind of variable power supply (rising and lowering input voltage) but how to make it electronically (not in simulation  but in real circuit) ? Something like DC-DC converter with variable voltage output ? Kind of SCR controlled by triangle signal ?
If not possible I think that quite close output can generate  common emitter transistor amplifier with sine wave signal input - not a triangle current wave but sine but close. Parameters however have to be computed in reverse : we have the maximum current (which is Ohm law based) flowing through the resistor of known value and power source of known DC voltage. Is there a way to find by LTSpice simulation in that situation values of required bias resistors  ?
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: lancaIV on February 15, 2018, 11:10:43 PM
Thanks TK!  The energy is dissipated in the load, circuit switching losses, coil resistances, etc.  Actually DR's circuit is not as inefficient as it appears in the last sim.  If C1 is replaced with a 10ufd cap and the sim is then run until the circuit stabilizes, the COP is ~ .93 and this could be improved upon with mosfet switching and some timing.  Unfortunately it is still conservative.

Regards,
Pm


Hello pm,
#reply 10 COP is .093 ergo less than 10% !
 This means 10 times structural optimation to reach COP=1


Sincerely
              OCWL
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: partzman on February 16, 2018, 12:04:48 AM
The issue seems simple and maybe it is , but I'm lost.
How to make electronically DC CURRENT to rise across resistor in triangle wave from some small value (above zero) to the maximum current (directed by Ohm law) and again to small value. I know it can be done using kind of variable power supply (rising and lowering input voltage) but how to make it electronically (not in simulation  but in real circuit) ? Something like DC-DC converter with variable voltage output ? Kind of SCR controlled by triangle signal ?
If not possible I think that quite close output can generate  common emitter transistor amplifier with sine wave signal input - not a triangle current wave but sine but close. Parameters however have to be computed in reverse : we have the maximum current (which is Ohm law based) flowing through the resistor of known value and power source of known DC voltage. Is there a way to find by LTSpice simulation in that situation values of required bias resistors  ?

OK, the most efficient solution would be to use PWM or pulse width modulation.  This is the technique that most if not all class D audio amplifiers use to achieve high power with high efficiency.  Basically, a high frequency square wave oscillator has it's duty cycle modulated by a lower frequency source and a low pass filter is then used on the output to attenuate the high frequency.  In your case, this low frequency would be a positive triangle wave but it could be any wave shape unipolar, bipolar, or complex as in music content. 

There are really low cost class D amplifier pcb modules available from China thru Ebay which would be cheaper and easier than trying to build your own.  You would then only need to provide the power supply and input signal in the wave shape of your choice and connect the load.  IIRC, I have purchased 100w class D stereo modules in the past for ~$15.00 and free shipping.

Hope this helps,
Pm

 
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: D.R.Jackson on February 16, 2018, 05:36:59 AM
OK, ....... etc,

Regards,
Pm

Partzman;

I had dismissed this circuit and put it away then something occurred to me,
so I figured I would try that and dismiss it and be done with it. 
Yet I am wondering now?

I set the simulation to skip the initial operation point solution
so that the capacitors would not be pre-charged, and offset the
start up point by 10ms to skip past a transient spike. 
And ran the simulation for 100s.   .tran 0 100 0.01 50u uic

Below is the result I got, and so I took snap shots of the waveform
averages and added them to the circuit snap shot.

I would not believe this unless you looked at it and ran it. 
Doing what you do with LTSpice.

As for the way it appears at the moment this is small in magnitude
on the power scale.

simulation time 99.99s

V1 = 199.89µW  19.987mJ

V2 = 106.15pW  10.614nJ

C1 = * 362.88µW  * 36.284mJ

So this is the result I got after the 100s run. 
I went on to 200s and it will run out that far without loosing steam.

I removed the DC current path from the circuit, and C4 is
being charged by the alternating current on the emitter.
When I remove C3 this circuit will not do this.

106.15pW + 199.89µW  = 199.8901062uW

362.88uW / 199.8901062uW = 1.8153975046514833459025897500874 = 1.8

199.8901062uW / 362.88uW = 0.55084354662698412698412698412698 = 0.55

The spice file is below.

Oh you can increase C3 on up to 20u and find that the output increases into the 1mW range. 

Not really sure how to interpret this at the moment however.

Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: partzman on February 16, 2018, 04:44:24 PM
Partzman;

I had dismissed this circuit and put it away then something occurred to me,

[snip]

Not really sure how to interpret this at the moment however.

DR,

I am busy at the moment with a project so I don't have a lot of time to analyze your latest results but I have some suggestions.  I would recommend viewing only the last two cycles of your 100s scan by starting at 99.998s and ending at 100s.  This way, any circuit parameter you wish to plot takes much less time to display thus speeding up the analysis.  In this manner you can now analyze the source of the energy in your circuit by focusing around Q1 using KCL (Kirchhoff's current law) as this device is the nexus of all the circuit's potential energy sources. 

Also, I do not quite understand your "C1 power = V(vc2_out)*I(C2)".  Can you extract real power from C1 under these conditions?  Replace C1 with a resistor whose value is V(vc2_out)rms/I(C2)rms and then check the results against the input power.

Now, I'm not sure if you are familiar with T Bearden's discussion and analysis of the "Fogal transistor" but your circuit with C4 in the emitter of Q1 would seemingly model this device.

Regards,
Pm

 
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: partzman on February 19, 2018, 09:02:55 PM
OK, the most efficient solution would be to use PWM or pulse width modulation.  This is the technique that most if not all class D audio amplifiers use to achieve high power with high efficiency.  Basically, a high frequency square wave oscillator has it's duty cycle modulated by a lower frequency source and a low pass filter is then used on the output to attenuate the high frequency.  In your case, this low frequency would be a positive triangle wave but it could be any wave shape unipolar, bipolar, or complex as in music content. 

There are really low cost class D amplifier pcb modules available from China thru Ebay which would be cheaper and easier than trying to build your own.  You would then only need to provide the power supply and input signal in the wave shape of your choice and connect the load.  IIRC, I have purchased 100w class D stereo modules in the past for ~$15.00 and free shipping.

Hope this helps,
Pm

Forest,

Here is a relatively simple solution for generating linear currents needed for a Figuera device using split power supplies and gate drives phased 90 degrees from one another.  Nearly all the energy drawn from the bottom supply is returned to the top supply resulting in overall high efficiency.

Regards,
Pm

Edit:  There is a more complex circuit which would re-circulate the collapsing inductive energy to the source supply.  I will post if you are interested.
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: forest on February 19, 2018, 10:05:07 PM
partzman
Can you post ltspice asc file ? I don't know how did you created those "waveform" windows.
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: partzman on February 19, 2018, 11:21:33 PM
partzman
Can you post ltspice asc file ? I don't know how did you created those "waveform" windows.

Forest,

I first take the sim results, save it to the clipboard and then paste it into MS Paint.  I then create whatever plot waveform window in LtSpice I wish to use and with a snipping tool (Win10) transfer it to the clipboard.  I then paste that into the image in Paint and continue until all windows are placed.

I've attached the asc file below.

Regards,
Pm
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: forest on February 20, 2018, 12:03:05 PM
Forest,

I first take the sim results, save it to the clipboard and then paste it into MS Paint.  I then create whatever plot waveform window in LtSpice I wish to use and with a snipping tool (Win10) transfer it to the clipboard.  I then paste that into the image in Paint and continue until all windows are placed.

I've attached the asc file below.

Regards,
Pm


So those "waveform" windows are not directly from LTSpice command ? Still don't understand but that's no problem. Zip doesn't contain asc ltspice file only png .
Title: Re: Can we demonstrate over unity energy?
Post by: partzman on February 20, 2018, 03:22:43 PM

So those "waveform" windows are not directly from LTSpice command ? Still don't understand but that's no problem. Zip doesn't contain asc ltspice file only png .

Oops, sorry about that!  Below is the zipped asc file.

The waveform windows are generated from a plot math function in LtSpice.  For example, the window for "V(Vs1)*I(V5)" is generated by placing your cursor over that trace on the top of the plot window pane and while holding down the CTRL key, left click on your mouse.  The waveform window will then be displayed and will show the start and end of the interval measurement period plus the average of the trace's units and the integral of this value.  In this case, the trace units is power in Watts and the integral is the energy in Joules.  There is an explanation of this in the Help section of LtSpice under "Waveform Arithmetic" plus all the other math functions one may perform on the plot traces.

You can only display one waveform window at a time in the LtSpice window so that's the reason I build a composite png in MS Paint.

Regards,
Pm