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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: hartiberlin on January 30, 2018, 09:40:10 PM

Title: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: hartiberlin on January 30, 2018, 09:40:10 PM
Hi all,
have a look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KusjoRtz6Zk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KusjoRtz6Zk)

I just have drawn the smaller S1 Mini circuit diagramm from the video. here it is:
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit
Post by: Void on January 31, 2018, 01:52:18 AM
Hi Stefan. It looks about the same as Bedini's three battery arrangement, except this guy is
using super caps instead of batteries. I think it is definitely not over unity. There may be an efficiency
increase to some extent, but what people seem to overlook is that multiple batteries (or
super caps in this case) are used to power the load, compared to powering with just one battery
or super cap, so to compare performance to when using a single battery or single super cap
is actually not a straight forward comparison.


All the best...
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 31, 2018, 02:07:06 AM
I agree with Void


However, there is something about storing electricity on
the back end of a load, that is intriguing.


Any situation that does that is “better” than throwing it to ground.
Because if that happens we are only losing what the load converts to work
Not necessarily what the load draws.

There are strong arguments suggesting the power companies do this
with our home panels. And still charge us for what they take back.
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit
Post by: Magluvin on January 31, 2018, 03:38:17 AM
So when the switch is closed, does it drain the 700F cap thus wasting what was in it? Something needs to change there.

Mags
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit
Post by: hartiberlin on February 01, 2018, 10:06:04 PM
So when the switch is closed, does it drain the 700F cap thus wasting what was in it? Something needs to change there.

Mags

Yes, although he has in his bigger devices a stepup converter connected to his big center cap, so he can use the steped up voltage to recharge his series cap bank
or use it to charge e.g. via the USB output of the stepup converter a mobile phone....

Well, also he stated in one video that  he can charge up his center 700 Farad cap from the series 4 x 100 Farad cap bank up to 3 Volts...
( one 100 Farad cap was broken, so he now used only 4 pieces in series in his S1 mini version)

He stated with 10 Volts on the 4x100 Farad stack ( so that is 10 Volts at 25 Farads)
he can charge up via the 12 LED diodes the 700 Farad cap to about 3 Volts.

So if we calculate the Joules energy via the Formula Wc= 0.5 x C x V^2 we get:

10 Volts @   25 Farad =  1250 Joule
 3 Volts  @ 700 Farad = 3150 Joule.

So we have a COP of 2.52 , so big overunity, if he is right with his measurements...

Maybe because these are all capacitive currents running there, the big center cap is charging up also somehow from the environment ?

Or maybe via  their  "floating" ground all caps want to equalize somehow and the 700 Farad center cap is somehow charging up
more than it should ?
I think he just has to provide conclusive measurements first to really see, what is going on...

Regards, Stefan,
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit
Post by: Void on February 01, 2018, 10:27:18 PM
Well, also he stated in one video that  he can charge up his center 700 Farad cap from the series 4 x 100 Farad cap bank up to 3 Volts...
( one 100 Farad cap was broken, so he now used only 4 pieces in series in his S1 mini version)

He stated with 10 Volts on the 4x100 Farad stack ( so that is 10 Volts at 25 Farads)
he can charge up via the 12 LED diodes the 700 Farad cap to about 3 Volts.

So if we calculate the Joules energy via the Formula Wc= 0.5 x C x V^2 we get:

10 Volts @   25 Farad =  1250 Joule
 3 Volts  @ 700 Farad = 3150 Joule.

So we have a COP of 2.52 , so big overunity, if he is right with his measurements...


Hi Stefan. It is most likely he is making a mistake somewhere, or he is stating something incorrectly.
Discharging a cap bank into another cap is not OU. Whether super caps are used or not should not make
any difference.

This guy would need to do a proper test where he shows the Farad markings on
all the super caps he is using and also shows the voltage measurements on all the super
caps just before starting the test run, and shows the voltage measurements on all the super caps
when he finishes his test run.

Also, to calculate the energy used on the supply super cap bank, you would need to know
both the cap bank start voltage and cap bank end voltage at the end of the test run.
The energy used would be the start energy minus the end energy on the cap bank.
We know discharging caps into other caps is not OU, so he is most likely making a mistake
somewhere if he is claiming it is OU. :) 

All the best...
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: conradelektro on February 01, 2018, 11:10:11 PM
In this video https://youtu.be/KusjoRtz6Zk?list=PLO6FJVqlxatfTY0QlElqDZNK4yE4jU3z8 (https://youtu.be/KusjoRtz6Zk?list=PLO6FJVqlxatfTY0QlElqDZNK4yE4jU3z8) the "inventor" claims that the LEDs give light for a shorter time if the 700F cap is bridged with a wire or with a switch as in the circuit diagram (I am referring to the circuit diagram in the first post of this thread). And if the 700F is charged up, the LEDs give light much longer. And he concludes that this means OU.

Case 1: the 700F cap is not charged (bridged with a wire). The charge from the five 100F caps flows through the LEDs while the Voltage over the LEDs stays at 12V (only at the very end, when the five 100F cps become discharged, the 12V will drop rapidly).

Cass 2: the 700F is charge from 0V to 3V while the LEDs are giving light. While charging the 700F cap the Voltage over the LEDs drops from 12V to 9V (because the Voltage in 700F cap rises from 0V to 3V). So, the current through the LEds is diminishing and therefore the LEDs give light longer than in case 1. The light of the LEDs is also diminishing, but the naked eye does not see that.

There is no OU, just a diminishing current through the LEDs if the 700F cap is charged (case 2) and a constant current through the LEDs if the 700F cap is bridged (case 1). The difference in the overall energy dissipated in the LEDs (between case 1 and case 2) is the charge of the 700F cap (in case 2).

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit
Post by: Void on February 02, 2018, 06:02:45 PM
He stated with 10 Volts on the 4x100 Farad stack ( so that is 10 Volts at 25 Farads)
he can charge up via the 12 LED diodes the 700 Farad cap to about 3 Volts.

Hi Stefan. Further to this, as we know from countless such Youtube videos, what people state
in videos and what they can actually demonstrate with a proper test setup and proper
measurements are usually not the same at all. :) As I mentioned above, he needs to actually clearly
show measuring the super cap bank start voltage and the single 700F super cap start voltage and
their end voltages at the end of the test run. If the 700F really went up to 3V, then it seems most likely it
wasn't at all close to 0V when he started the test. It may have been at 2V or whatever when he started. Unless
he shows some proper measurements, his claims seem very unlikely at best. As we all know, caps or batteries of
any kind just don't magically charge up with a COP > 1 under any circumstances. There would have to be something
very unusual going on in his setup, but all he is doing is slowly discharging a super cap bank into
a 700F super cap through a load. It appears to be nothing unusual there at all.


All the best...
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on February 03, 2018, 05:23:05 AM
Hi all, was watching one of his videos and it appears he is doing something similar to the youtube channel called, 'debunkified'.
In Stephen Fyfe's latest video, with the smaller unit and 12 led panel, he is using a low voltage boost converter, connected to the large central super capacitor.
And the output of the boost converter, at whatever voltage it is set to, is connected to the series capacitors, recharging them.
So yes, very much like turions 3 battery setup, using boost converter to extend runtime.

Very similar i think, to this video by 'debunkified', which of course is a boost converter in his wooden box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmsK65VU74Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmsK65VU74Q)

peace love light
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: hartiberlin on February 03, 2018, 03:42:12 PM
This is his wiring diagram he posted yeasterday.

Here you can get a few components from Amazon for this circuit if you want to try it:

Bright 5V 24 Piranha LEDs Lamp
http://amzn.to/2EefA7s

or Cheaper 12 Volts 12 LEDs lamp:
http://amzn.to/2Ee7efZ

500 Farad Caps
http://amzn.to/2GIwg5q

Maxwell Technologies Inc.
Supercapacitors / Ultracapacitors 2.7V 100F Wire Lead
http://amzn.to/2GJjaoj


700 Farad cap can only be found on Ebay:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_id=114&ipn=icep&toolid=20004&campid=5338252487&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F201715628468

another one:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5574900467&campid=5338252487&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F1pcs-2-5V-700F-Automobile-Super-Farad-Capacitance-NEW-K9%2F222311831925%3Fepid%3D625469978%26hash%3Ditem33c2d15975%3Ag%3AlwcAAOSwcUBYJZYN


2 pieces 700 Farad caps
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5574900467&campid=5338252487&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F2-pcs-2-5V-700F-Automobile-Super-Farad-Capacitance-NEW%2F172405497540%3Fepid%3D629748887%26hash%3Ditem28242b1ec4%3Ag%3AZyoAAOSw5cNYJZVn
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: hartiberlin on February 03, 2018, 04:11:05 PM
Here are these stepup converters that already work from 0.9 Volts on and output 5 Volts on
a USB plug. Very handy for charging your phone or some USB lights.
Also very cheap already 10 Pieces for just 3.15 US$ on Ebay.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5574900467&campid=5338252492&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F10pcs-DC-DC-USB-0-9v-5v-to-5vdc-Boost-Step-up-Power-Supply-Module-Mini-PFM%2F171907430057%3Fepid%3D1248801388%26hash%3Ditem28067b36a9%3Ag%3AJkcAAOSwzrxUy2CC

Or here 10 pieces  simular one on Amazon a bit more expensive:
http://amzn.to/2DX9WDa


Here are 3 pieces for a good price on Amazon for 3 pieces Stepup converters, that already work from 0.8 Volts on:

http://amzn.to/2EAV6U2

Here are 5 pieces for a good price on Ebay:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5574900467&campid=5338252492&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F5x-DC-DC-0-8-5V-To-5V-Step-Up-Power-Supply-Module-Boost-Converter-BL8530-BL8531%2F371895736204%3Fhash%3Ditem5696b6978c%3Ag%3A2AkAAOSwETJaMKEW


Hope this helps to rebuild his circuits...
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: hartiberlin on February 03, 2018, 04:32:26 PM
Watch his newest video:
https://www.facebook.com/stephane.fyfe/videos/778903482319367/


Here is his bigger S1 circuit wiring diagram.

Interesting is, how the 2 lights are wired to the caps....


Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: hartiberlin on February 03, 2018, 09:03:25 PM
Here are a few other Supercaps from Amperics that also can be charged up to 3 Volts:

10 Pack High Energy Density 3.0V 400 Farad Amperics Supercapacitors
http://amzn.to/2GIyuln

10 pack High Energy Density 3.0V 100 Farad Amperics Supercapacitors
http://amzn.to/2GIHQgK

10 pack High Energy Density 3.0V 600 Farad Amperics Supercapacitors
http://amzn.to/2ECmW2p

Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: hartiberlin on February 03, 2018, 09:57:40 PM
His newest video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbaAVwQGJSQ

Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: Void on February 04, 2018, 07:59:00 PM
His newest video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbaAVwQGJSQ

Hi Stefan. Bedini had this kind of setup listed on his website for quite
a few years. I have experimented with it, and as would be expected it is still less than
100% efficient when using a boost converter to transfer charge back from the cap
or battery being charged back to the source battery or cap. Using a boost converter like that
of course has some losses, so you won't reach 100% efficiency with that kind of setup, although
efficiency in the 90%+ range is possible.

The guy whose videos you are posting it seems has not demonstrated any sort of proper test to
check the actual efficiency of his setup, but the efficiency is of course not likely at all going to be
above 100% given the losses in the super caps and losses in the boost converter with that particular
arrangement. Even though those losses are not huge, they are still losses, so the efficiency should be
less then 100%. Stefan, what do you think is so unusual about charging one cap from a cap bank that
it might lead to OU results? I do not see anything unusual going on there.

All the best...
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: hartiberlin on February 13, 2018, 01:59:22 PM
A first test of mine:
https://youtu.be/Vu1-06t_Z4g

More to come...
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: hartiberlin on February 13, 2018, 03:48:29 PM
By the way, the LED panel must be a 3 to 5 Volts type, not a 12 Volts type as indicated in the first post of this thread in the circuit diagram...

I have just used 12 red LEDs in parallel, which have a threshold voltage of about 1.75 Volts in series with a 10 Ohm resistor.
But I will order these 3 to 5 Volts white LED panels also. Have already got a few with only 12 Volts, but may rewire them... or just order+
new ones....
The circuit is probably not overunity, but makes a good long lasting nightlight...
anyway, also have to condition the supercaps a bit more with some pulser circuit, so they will hold the charges better....

Also I need to know this:

Well I just looked up the new 700 Farad supercaps that ship on Ebay from China:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5574900467&campid=5338252487&mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F1pcs-2-5V-700F-Automobile-Super-Farad-Capacitance-NEW-K9%2F222311831925%3Fepid%3D625469978%26hash%3Ditem33c2d15975%3Ag%3AlwcAAOSwcUBYJZYN

 and there was stated in the offer:
"Note: Please charge to 16V then discharge to 2-4V and recharge again before DIY, and to do this for about 6-10 times,then connect it to the battery in parallel directly. Do not use battery to charge directly. Capacitance 0V connects to the battery directly,the current will be easier to produce spark. Please charge to 10-13V,10-40A with an ordinary battery charger. "

So does this mean this supercap must be first somehow conditioned or burned in ? Or isn´t just 16 Volts killing it and evaporate the electrolyte ?? Has somebody any view about it, cause I just ordered 2 pieces and don´t want to blow them up... Many thanks. Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: e2matrix on February 13, 2018, 08:13:31 PM
That doesn't make any sense to charge them to 16 volts unless they are something very different for normal supercaps.  I would write to that seller and ask for an explanation or get in touch with the manufacturer.  Maybe the seller just wants to increase sales when your caps burn out in a short while - LOL.   
Title: Re: Stephen Fyfe Supercap circuit - COP = 2.5 ?
Post by: blueplanet on February 14, 2018, 12:28:49 PM
A first test of mine:
https://youtu.be/Vu1-06t_Z4g (https://youtu.be/Vu1-06t_Z4g)

More to come...

Very nice!