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Author Topic: inertial propulsion with gyroscope  (Read 4727 times)

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2018, 12:04:27 AM »
You can probably increase the effect by applying an extra weight on a gyro end.
It should precess more (just guessing)
Can you measure the force by stopping the movement with a fish scale?

Hi telecom

No i don't think it will help because if you read the Fiala's patent , you will understand that the less "no gyroscopic" mass you have  on the  the gyro , the better will be the effect.

So if you see on my video part 2 and part 3, where the system is on steel balls, the general mouvement is forward and drifting to the left.

So on the left 180 degree of the device there is full inertia and centrifugal force (the gyro is a dead mass), because the gyro is NOT in precession. And on the opposite 180 degree the gyro is in full precesssion and and so it exhibits very few inertial and centrifugal forces. And this is exactly that asymetry between the both 180 degree that propells the device. The greater the asymetry the stronger the effect.

 So if i add some dead (non gyroscopic) mass on the gyro side , the asymetry will be decrease and so the effect.

Hope this helps

Laurent

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2018, 12:04:27 AM »

Offline telecom

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2018, 05:40:49 AM »
Hi telecom

No i don't think it will help because if you read the Fiala's patent , you will understand that the less "no gyroscopic" mass you have  on the  the gyro , the better will be the effect.

So if you see on my video part 2 and part 3, where the system is on steel balls, the general mouvement is forward and drifting to the left.

So on the left 180 degree of the device there is full inertia and centrifugal force (the gyro is a dead mass), because the gyro is NOT in precession. And on the opposite 180 degree the gyro is in full precesssion and and so it exhibits very few inertial and centrifugal forces. And this is exactly that asymetry between the both 180 degree that propells the device. The greater the asymetry the stronger the effect.

 So if i add some dead (non gyroscopic) mass on the gyro side , the asymetry will be decrease and so the effect.

Hope this helps

Laurent
Thanks for the explanation, but if precessed side is getting lighter,
shouldn't the center of mass move to the rolled side? which is heavier?
On your video it moves to the precessed side, which makes the whole thing to roll forward.
Have you tried measuring the force?


Offline Magluvin

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2018, 06:11:52 AM »
Seeing a lot of vids with 2 gyros opposite of center, the gyros are mounted to an arm that pivots in the center. My first proposal earlier with 4 gyros, one on each corner of a platform, do not pivot on an arm from center. Instead they would pivot on their own center axis. Looking at each gyro from the vantage point of the center of the platform outward toward each of the gyros, one try would be to tilt them toward the center, or outward from center, all at the same time. Also looking at them from the same vantage point, tilt them all to the left or right, and or combinations of each for each. Im thinking having the arms tilt from the center of the platform relieves any lift that may be had by letting each gyro do as it will without actually providing any lift of the mech as a whole.

I have 2 pc fans that are stupid powerful and fast, 7k rpm, with blades removed, The blades are part of a plastic thin tube that slips over a metal spin drum containing the magnets. I was demoing one for a friend and while holding it, I went to flip it over to aim the out air flow toward him and the gyro effect took over and the blades bit my finger bad. almost to the bone. Needless to say some blades broke in the action. So I removed the whole blade assy and have a nice drum motor to fiddle with. Ill do a vid of these along with the 3rd one I have that is still bladed, as I took apart the second one the same as the first. Im sure many here will be surprised how much air this thing blows.  Can be had on ebay for $5. Will show the part no. and specs in the vid. The Thing is no joke.

So with the 2 debladed motors i will try a couple of my ideas. I have some carbon fiber rods to work a center controlling device to tilt the motors as I have stated. Contemplating a partial gimbal for each.

Will do the vid of the motors tomorrow.

Mags

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2018, 06:42:44 PM »
Thanks for the explanation, but if precessed side is getting lighter,
shouldn't the center of mass move to the rolled side? which is heavier?
On your video it moves to the precessed side, which makes the whole thing to roll forward.
Have you tried measuring the force?

Hi telecom

The system move forward and drift to the left which is the NON precession side. To be more clear, on the left 180 degree side (related to motion), the gyro tries to precess, but it is not free to do this, as the axle is connected through the gimbal, to the traction wheel which is in contact with the ring track on the other (right side) 180 degre. And then, when the traction wheel jump down the track, BOTH , the gyro and the traction wheel do not touch the ring anymore. So the gyro can enter precession and that al along the right side 180 degree.

For info to me,this experiment is simply to check if the system is possible. which it seems to be.
Now why and how it can happen is my main motivation on this subject.
So right now,i am not very interested in measurement and optimisation of the device.

As you can see in the video, the moving force is far from tremendous, and the only way to get something usefull on this earth, would be to make the system very big and as already said in a minimum of opposite twin or a lot of opposite twin system combined and perfectly synchronised and built . And that is far from my possibilities.

I Mag

Can't wait for your video

Laurent

Offline Magluvin

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2018, 11:53:03 PM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2018, 11:53:03 PM »
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Offline telecom

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2018, 03:02:43 AM »
Hi telecom

The system move forward and drift to the left which is the NON precession side. To be more clear, on the left 180 degree side (related to motion), the gyro tries to precess, but it is not free to do this, as the axle is connected through the gimbal, to the traction wheel which is in contact with the ring track on the other (right side) 180 degre. And then, when the traction wheel jump down the track, BOTH , the gyro and the traction wheel do not touch the ring anymore. So the gyro can enter precession and that al along the right side 180 degree.

For info to me,this experiment is simply to check if the system is possible. which it seems to be.
Now why and how it can happen is my main motivation on this subject.
So right now,i am not very interested in measurement and optimisation of the device.

As you can see in the video, the moving force is far from tremendous, and the only way to get something usefull on this earth, would be to make the system very big and as already said in a minimum of opposite twin or a lot of opposite twin system combined and perfectly synchronised and built . And that is far from my possibilities.

I Mag

Can't wait for your video

Laurent

This is the most interesting experiment I've seen in years.
No matter how small is the force, it has a huge importance.
Do you have any ideas how to optimize the device?

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2018, 04:23:42 PM »
This is the most interesting experiment I've seen in years.
No matter how small is the force, it has a huge importance.
Do you have any ideas how to optimize the device?

Hi telecom

Yes it is also my most shaking brain experiment.

What we see on my video is only the starter, the main meal should be the understanding of why a spinning AND precessing gyro seems to loose some inertia and centrifugal force.

And the dessert should be to make something usefull with that.

Of course there is a lot of possibilities to increase the effect.

M. Harvey Emanuel Fiala took the immense time to write one of the the better patent i have ever seen. As i say in my video (part 1) this is better than a patent this is a full lecture.
There is almost 50 pleasant drawings of different embodiements and schematics and sheets of results of experiment. There is also 33 sheets of explanation of the general system and each figures is described.
A really remarkable work that everyone interested in the subject should read.

Personnally i have printed the whole 83 pages and made a reference book.

There is a lot of other papers and patent from M. Laithwaite, Alex jones, Sandy Kidd, a very intersting paper from the late Fran MacCabe in his internet site.
There is also the "gyroscope .org " forum with a lot of discussions about the gyros.

Etc..

I have found 2 other of these small centrifugal clutch wheels, and perhaps i will try to do a double rotor device for my pleasure and to learn more.

OK hope this helps


Hi Mag

Do you intend to replicate some of M. Fiala 's patent devices with your motor. Or do you want to experiment others gyro possibilities ?

Laurent

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2018, 04:23:42 PM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2018, 07:52:09 PM »
Hi all

It seems that the inertial propulsion does not interest too much people ?

Always trying to understand the process i go on with some new experiments.

https://youtu.be/1IEi_4TWu5o

Hope this helps

Laurent

Offline webby1

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2018, 08:10:22 PM »

Hi Laurent,

I am following with interest, but I am playing with other stuff right now.


Keep up the sharing of your efforts, I appreciate what you are doing.

Offline telecom

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2018, 02:43:27 AM »
Hi all

It seems that the inertial propulsion does not interest too much people ?

Always trying to understand the process i go on with some new experiments.

https://youtu.be/1IEi_4TWu5o

Hope this helps

Laurent

I think making a bigger flywheel was a huge step in the right direction.
Can you measure the pull now?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2018, 02:43:27 AM »
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Offline MagnaProp

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2018, 06:17:47 AM »
Nicely done with that last video of yours. Looks like a very good mover indeed.

...
@MagnaProp

Without replicating i can not say anything.

But interestingly, Laithwaite understood that if the device has to work as a space propellant, it has to be not only a twin system but a double twin to direct the motorising effect in one direction.
So not easy at all to replicate without very high grade craftmanship.
Thanks for the info. Very intriguing experiments you are doing and comments about Laithwaite. Keep up the good work. These experiments of yours have peaked my interest.

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2018, 07:31:11 PM »
Hi all

I made a new test.

This time the gyro is attached on a bicycle wheel, which hang on the roof with a very thin MONOTORON (untwisted and unelastic) Kevlar (aramid) thread.

During the experiment, the thread is not detwisting, on the contrary it is winding.

So this time we have absolutely no friction at all, and the system seems to work well.

Apology for the long boring 7 minutes of the video but it seems that the gyro effectively loses some inertia on his back track, and this is what is interesting. And the question is why and how?

https://youtu.be/VoDj5KlJztc

just for info i have added 2 more "fidget brass ring" so the gyro has now 5 rings and work very good also on the ground.

Hope this helps

Laurent

Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2018, 10:53:33 PM »
Great experiment! I like your last video (the thing hanging from the ceiling, part 6) which seems to prove that there is real propulsion (no back and forward movement, only forward).

I have a question:

The motor is spinning the weight. Does the long axle interact with the ring? Or asked differently, does the long axle every now and then touch the ring in order to make the contraption move around the ring?

Asked in a third way, the spinning weight is actively driven around the ring because the spinning axle touches the ring at least during part of the round trip along the ring?

In your first video (part 1), this grating sound can be heard. I this grating sound caused by the axle touching the ring (in order to drive the spinning wheel around the ring)?

Greetings, Conrad

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2018, 03:21:34 PM »
Great experiment! I like your last video (the thing hanging from the ceiling, part 6) which seems to prove that there is real propulsion (no back and forward movement, only forward).

I have a question:

The motor is spinning the weight. Does the long axle interact with the ring? Or asked differently, does the long axle every now and then touch the ring in order to make the contraption move around the ring?

Asked in a third way, the spinning weight is actively driven around the ring because the spinning axle touches the ring at least during part of the round trip along the ring?

In your first video (part 1), this grating sound can be heard. I this grating sound caused by the axle touching the ring (in order to drive the spinning wheel around the ring)?



Greetings, Conrad

Hi conrad


Yes you understand well

There is only 1 motor which spins the long  shaft . There is no motor to rotate the system vertically.

The gyro is attached at one end of the shaft and on the opposite part of the long shaft there should be a traction wheel. But in this specific set up, the shaft itself is  the traction wheel.

The traction wheel is in contact with the ring (orange) on about 180 degrees of the rotation. During this contact, the traction wheel  does 2 actions

1- it forces the gyro to rotate perfectly horizontally around the ring (orange) at a very precise speed.

2- it prevent the gyro to precess because the gyro tries to raise up and prescess, but it can not, so the gyro behave as a simple "dead" mass rotating on a horizontal planar path. And the gyro exhibit its full inertia and centrifugal force. And as it can not precess the gyro also apply a strong gyroscopic vertical torque on the shaft which is transmitted to the traction wheel which get a strong downward push against the ring creating a good grip and the powerfull motorizing swing.

Then on the other 180 degrees, the traction wheel jump in "freefall" down the"cliff" of the splitted ring and does nothing more.

So the gyro is now free to raise up and precess. During this part of the rotation neither the traction wheel  nor the gyro are in contact with the ring(orange). All "float" in the air.

And during this part of the rotation, the precessing gyro loses a big part of its inertia, so it can can come back to the initial position by natural precession (precession due to gravity), without  swinging effect and without counter motoring effect.

You can clearly see that the gyro swing fast and precess (and also nutate) slowly .

And the question is how and why a precessing gyro seems to lose its inertia and centrifugal force ??????

I would recommand to read the patent (see in part 1 ) of the inventor, M. Harvey Fiala, it is very interesting and informative.

Hope this helps

Laurent


Offline conradelektro

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2018, 06:26:05 PM »
Laurent, thank you for your reply and explanations. I read the patent but was not sure how your replication worked. (You did a truthful replication.)

1) I have the impression from your videos that the arm holding the spinning wheel (the gyroscope) is accelerated from the moment the traction wheel engages the ring till it loses contact (for 180° of the round trip).

    And then the arm de-accelerates while the spinning wheel is freely flying the other half of its round trip.

    In other words, the arm is not turning with a constant speed but speeds up during one half of its round trip and slows down the other half. (While the spinning wheel, the gyroscope, is always spinning at the same speed.)


2) I wonder whether the spinning wheel could stay in the same plane during its round trip (no nodding)? The nodding seems to be necessary in order to engage and disengage the traction wheel and may have no other purpose?


I once did some experiments in this field of research but only managed the ominous and well known back and forth movement. I dumped everything years ago but will make some drawings in order to discuss my findings and possible solutions based on the Fiala patent.


Laurent, your experiments made me dig up my collection of stepper motors and I might buy some modern stepper motor shields for my Arduino. It is intriguing. I am not expecting that a "space drive" which turns rotary forces into linear forces (as Fiala claims) is really possible, but there is still a lot to be learned about turning gyroscopes. I am particularly interested in the "nodding" of a gyroscope as Fiala is doing in his patent. It is strange that Fiala is only "nodding" his gyroscope a little bit (about 5°).

Concerning your latest experiment (part 6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoDj5KlJztc&feature=youtu.be): It is hard to explain the turning of your contraption other than by a net force in the turning direction. This should be impossible, but you did it anyway. It could be that the Fiala invention only works on a planet (against gravity) and not in free fall? In other words, the Fiala invention pushes against gravity (straight down) and turns that into a weak forward motion (probably by help of friction, even friction in the air). If there is no gravity to push against, it might not work? But this is only speculation.

The Fiala patent was filed in February 2011. If it had worked one would have heard about it in the meantime. There probably is a catch (an error of thought) in the thing. Some things are too good to be true. But your experiments are great whatever the end result.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2018, 06:26:05 PM »

 

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