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Author Topic: inertial propulsion with gyroscope  (Read 5282 times)

Offline woopy

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inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« on: January 16, 2018, 10:39:01 PM »
Hi all

 I come back to this old topic, because i stumbled upon a very interesting patent from M. Harvey Fiala.

Of course i could not prevent me to replicate one of the simpliest device of the patent

https://youtu.be/AGKXnp1twUk

If some of you are interested for a discussion

Laurent

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inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« on: January 16, 2018, 10:39:01 PM »

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 03:49:22 AM »
Excellent work!!


Precession to linear force transfer
This will work as a space engine

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 05:48:52 AM »
Excellent work!!


Precession to linear force transfer
This will work as a space engine

No, it won't. I do agree that Woopy has done excellent work with his build replication, as always, but his testing is flawed. Woopy's device is moving due to stick-slip friction and is pushing against the substrate. This can be demonstrated in the following way:

Get a sheet of plate glass. (Plate glass, in contrast to ordinary window glass, is uniformly smooth and dimensionally stable.) Put down some uniform spheres, like good marbles or ball-bearing balls, onto the black rangetop surface, and insure that the surface is precisely level. Put the plate glass down onto the balls, so that it is free to move in whatever direction it wants to move. Then put the apparatus under test onto the plate glass and turn it on. You will observe that the apparatus moves in one direction and the glass plate moves in the opposite direction, proving that the apparatus is _pushing_ on the substrate in order to move. It won't go anywhere in free space.

You can see even in Woopy's demo that the thing hardly moves, and even when it does move it takes one smaller step back for every larger step forward. The larger forward steps happen due to the slight misalignment of the ball-bearing "feet" of the apparatus, which then results in the stick-slip friction coupling the apparatus weight-shifts to the substrate. Newton rests peacefully in his grave.

These things have been tested properly many times before in very sophisticated laboratories. Even air tables or linear air tracks can be fooled by uneven, moving weight distributions which cause differential thrusts from the air blast suspension itself.

Now... as to precession.... ask Chet about me and precession.  Laithwaite was wrong, as he finally admitted before he died.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 07:59:15 AM »
Back in middle school we had a guy come in to do demos of gyros. He sat on a bar stool that spins holding a spinning wheel that had handles on each side of he shaft and held it out in front of him. When he tilted it, it turned him around on the stool one way, and tilted it the other way it reversed his spin.

As for Smokys vision, say we have 4 of the gyros on a platform with each at the 4 corners. Now we use synchronized servos to tilt all 4 gyros say inward or outward simultaneously. Would it provide lift?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldqUV-DXiUg

Mags

Offline ramset

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 10:13:46 AM »
Yes
a wonderful build and demonstration , yes the marbles or ball bearings or ?

apparently the wheels need to be "perfectly" aligned or this "sticktion" assists in movement [and confuses ]
even floating on water or on air tables has issues .[All mentioned already]

HOWEVER

antigravity tickles "everyone's " mind reading here ,

Gyro's and antigravity "effects".....

that itch you just can't  scratch .

I suspect there will be a lot more scratching here....or attempts at antigravity effects.




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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 10:13:46 AM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2018, 03:37:15 PM »
I all

Thank's for compliments on my replication. But it should certainly be redone and more precisely, because this thing deserves a high craftmanship.

to TK

Yes i aggree that a test on the marbles should be done, but as me, you know that, to be convincing (good or bad) in this case, the DUT should be a (at minima) twin system running perfectly in opposition and also in perfect synchronisation to avoid the latteral parasite mouvement due to the  spinning asymetric mass. And frankly i am not sure to be able to realise such a device. But perhaps somebody else could try.

As you have correctly noticed, the device make a slight mouvement backwards and almost double the mouvement forwards. M. Fiala explain this in the patent. But i understand that it is a long and boring time to read the 33 pages of description of the patent.

I am not a seller of space propulsion devices, i am simply fascinated by this device, which can surprisingly also coast slightly.

Just for fun, as you seem to know very well the subject, would you be so kind to explain in simple words, how the old M. Laithwaite manage to lift the big wheel, and seems to withstand the centrifugal force so easily as per this video.
 
https://youtu.be/JRPC7a_AcQo

And for info i did the big wheel experiment with a lighter cart wheel (about 4 kg) spun with a grinder, and i have really the impression that it goes from itself around my head. But perhaps it is only impression, but what a great impression. Perhaps i have an addiction to be fooled.

Thank's

To Chet

I have not quite undestood what TK wanted to speak about precession. Can you eventually explain his words

Thank's


Offline ramset

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2018, 05:46:09 PM »
Woopy
Honestly?
I'm confused

when I take the big 1hp hand held grinder  with the 14 inch diamond blade [for cutting concrete]
and run the blade up to 2-3000 RPM and move WITH precession,  I can relax certain muscles ...it feels lighter ,

and that is not a heavy blade [the saw is very heavy tho]

I did this "with precession movement" all the time in demolition business with similar very heavy gas-powered unit with Big wood cutting 12 - 14 inch carbide blades
it was a method to Move and not have to carry the full weight of the saw when working on ladders and repositioning
for another cut.[sort of cheating]

rev the saw and move with precession
----------------------------------------------------

if you put a scale under me on the ladder or Mag's barstool when the teacher spins ..or if you stand on a scale when "you" spin

no weight loss....try it.

but ...why did I use this "with precession movement " to rest my muscles when working up on the ladder [to move the very heavy saw to another Cut ??

makes no sense ....

and just Like you {and Tinsel too } it hurts the head....

and all agree it needs more looking and measuring and ...

?

perhaps a better method to measure this localized apparent weightless which cannot be seen on a scale ??

IMO there is something there which all here  agree... needs more investigation.

Confused but grateful [for you and your work]

Chet







Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2018, 05:46:09 PM »
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Offline Paul-R

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2018, 06:02:24 PM »
For me, the interesting variant was a square piece of heavy ply with four electric motors at the edge of each side with shafts facing out.

Each motor had a heavy flywheel, and they rotated in the same direction, facing north, south east and west. When started up, the platform became heavier or lighter.

If heavier, it would be turned upside down, so that on rotating, the device should generate more lift than its weight, i.e. float. But I cannot find either the photographs or description.

This isn't the page but close. Look down the page to the image of the blue base, green motor/flywheels and  red arrows pointing upwards.
https://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/SmartSPIN_X2/SmartSPIN_X2.htm

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2018, 06:51:21 PM »
I Chet

very informative the fact that your big grinder seems lighter in precession. And that you use this caractéristic to relax your muscles.

I found this video, where"veritasium" replicate the Laithwaite experiment standing on a scale, which shows no weight loss.
Then it tries some explanations but i am not convinced at all.
At 2.50 he try to turn backwards with the big wheel spinning and he can simply not lift the wheel to face the caméra.
Perhaps he should have done this also on the scale to see if there is a weight gain when you go counter precession ?
https://youtu.be/tLMpdBjA2SU

Hi Paul R
Thank's for input

laurent

Offline centraflow

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2018, 07:49:17 PM »

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2018, 07:49:17 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2018, 06:21:39 AM »
The "weight loss" phenomenon is a special case of forced precession.  There is no weight loss, as any number of scale experiments have proved.

As a Chinese fortune cookie once told me: "Every action has a counter action. Just if you can see it or not."

For your amusement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a81hS_iCi4E






Offline MagnaProp

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2018, 08:28:31 AM »
Very good replication woopy. You mention Laithwaite who also has a patent for a gyroscopic propulsion device. He mentions at the end of his "Heretic" video that he mathematically proved that his gyroscopic propulsion device does actually works. Unfortunately the video ends with him moving a piece of a toy mock up but doesn't show the actual device working in full.

Do you think it actually works as he claimed?

https://www.google.com/patents/US5860317

Offline woopy

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2018, 09:56:22 AM »
The "weight loss" phenomenon is a special case of forced precession.  There is no weight loss, as any number of scale experiments have proved.

As a Chinese fortune cookie once told me: "Every action has a counter action. Just if you can see it or not."

For your amusement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a81hS_iCi4E

Hi TK

Many thank's for the chinese words. It is excatly that.

In spinning mass, as a gyro, We CAN NOT SEE WHERE the action is taking place.

So the dear Isaac can RIP.

And it is the aim of this thread , to attempt to understand WHERE and how action and reaction are taking place . So no offence to established "laws" but open minding our brain.

We are often attracted by antigravity with gyro, but as i see at 2.50 of the video that me and Centralflow joined above, it would be very informative to redo the  Laithwaite big wheel experiment on the scale but forcing the wheel counter the natural precession, to see if the scale also does not show a WEIGHT INCREASE.

And at 2.50,  it seems almost impossible to "Veratisium" to lift the wheel in counter natural precession, even when trying to use his knees as a lever, and if in this special case, the scale does not show any weight increase, i think that the location of action and reaction is not at the right place we think that  should be. And if the scale does effectively show an increase in weight then ????....

As i doubt very much that "Veratisium" will show a test with the big wheel in counter rotation , i think i will try to do it myself. Or perehaps Chet could take one of his big saw and jump on a scale and rotate the saw in both directions ?

Could it be a mass transfer, as Laithwaite and many other as spoken about ?

Also thank's for the very intersting video, have you made it youself as i can ear your voice at the end ?


@MagnaProp

Without replicating i can not say anything.

But interestingly, Laithwaite understood that if the device has to work as a space propellant, it has to be not only a twin system but a double twin to direct the motorising effect in one direction.
So not easy at all to replicate without very high grade craftmanship.

Laurent




Offline ramset

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2018, 01:46:15 PM »
Laurent
I think we need a self powered Flywheel,  A small one [or two / four as  mentioned] and one  of significant size or mass [maybe like one of Mags electric powered bike wheels ?]
and then play with the scale ...
you see in Tinsel's precession Cha-os Build he put speed control in there and patterns show up..

IMO a self sustained speed controlled wheel is needed here .

I will see if I can find one of these electric Bike wheels ,even changing out the air with fluid/sand/?  [maybe ferro fluid too for playing with magnets later?? ??

and then trying longer length support poles.[maybe up to 10 feet or longer ??

I do believe I have seen Videos of small children "doing the laithwaite" picking up a weight which they would Never be able to lift [close to their own  weight]
Precession....

hurts the mind [a good thing I think

Laurent,
as always ......  you inspire !

with gratitude

Chet



Offline Paul-R

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2018, 02:22:05 PM »
The "weight loss" phenomenon is a special case of forced precession.  There is no weight loss ...
But surely, there is no loss of mass but there is a loss of weight. i.e. one could make a helicopter out of the idea.

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Re: inertial propulsion with gyroscope
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2018, 02:22:05 PM »

 

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