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Author Topic: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications  (Read 5533 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 05:14:01 AM »
Yes and no

There comes a time when you have to understand what effect the inventer is trying to achieve.

Take bedinis 1984 energizer for example.

Some got there knickers in a twist,just because my energizer did not look the same as the one depicted in the diagram bedini showed, but could not explain the difference between the two.

The thing that makes it worse,is the fact that that diagram also dose not depict the energizer that bedini had working on his bench.

The inventer also go's  on to say that there are many types of generators,and alternators that can be used to achieve the desired effect.

To many people seem to think that a replication must look like some picture posted by the inventer,when often the picture/diagram has nothing to do with the  actual machine the inventer actually made.

We should be replicating the effect the inventer specifies-not some picture that the inventer drew on a piece of paper.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Floor

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 08:41:58 PM »
Replications should be nearly identical to the original...

       In order that .....

1.  unseen and unknown....  factors which may other wise affect the replication
experiment's outcome are avoided.

2. Errors in original device / methods / processes ..... may be discovered.

3. Replication is replication,  not modification.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 11:37:26 PM »
Replications should be nearly identical to the original...

       In order that .....

1.  unseen and unknown....  factors which may other wise affect the replication
experiment's outcome are avoided.

2. Errors in original device / methods / processes ..... may be discovered.

3. Replication is replication,  not modification.

 ;)   Thanks Floor. I agree 100% ;D Well said.

Mags

Offline tinman

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2017, 04:25:21 AM »

so you saying you know what was the inventor trying to achieve...


what about it...


your needing someone to explain the difference between the two is a testament to your ignorance......


says you.....the debunker...



aye...indeed he did, and I imagine you busying yourself, testing as many of those methods as you can, and are still coming up short.....  where you fail is you don't know what the desired effect is...



ah...now we find the great debunker trying to justify why he builds what he wants how he sees fit...  The inventor built and tested all versions and variations of his idea, all of which led to what can be considered as the final iteration of the concept... you would be wise to remember that.



wise words from one oblivious of the effect!

And bla

Offline profitis

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2017, 01:22:46 PM »
"3. Replication is replication,  not modification."

Some blueprints have enormous scope of error and they still work just fine.all relative

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2017, 01:22:46 PM »
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Offline h20power

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2017, 11:15:42 PM »
It really depends on the one doing the work. If say they are like me and are actually doing hands on experiments, funding their own work, and doing all of the research and other ground work then that person doesn't have to answer to anyone other than themselves. The one thing that drives people like me away from the forums is people acting as if we owe them something. When I went to understand what Meyer had done I did so in a way that I knew was going to be the long way around as lets face it all the information in the patents and that that can be found in the many lecture videos hasn't helped out anyone's understanding of just how that technology actually works.
Based on understanding one can build things just like what they are trying to replicate or make improvements on things they are trying to replicate. The key word is "Understanding" as once things are understood then you can see if things were done in the best way or not. I found many mistakes in what Meyer did with his technology and designed things around those mistakes I found. I also found many mistakes with the assumptions people whom have had their hands on Meyer's technology made. It was all due to a good understanding of the actual science behind the technology. Thus I can make changes to practically anything Meyer built now.


Most people in forums like these like to try and use methods they come up with to try and get me to tell them what I know and/or have learned about this technology in a forceful manor. When I don't fall for their scams or succumb to their demands they get mad and run off threatening to stop my efforts to bring out this technology which is siding with those that are currently selling energy as you can't have it both ways.


When it comes to trying to replicate any technology you must first try and gain an understanding of what it is that is being done so your first builds should be very close to the thing you are trying to replicate. You have to test them greatly leaving no stone unturned and I found that making use of the scientific method helps as it forces one to ask and answer questions. From what I have seen in the many forums I have been in most are perfectly willing to ask questions but not so willing to try and answer those questions especially if it means they will have to spend money out of their own pockets to get an answer. These people like other people to answer their questions and if a person refuses to answer their question they proceed towards bashing the person of interest in an attempt to get their questions answered.


What worked for me is the fact that I understood that I would have to be the one answering my own questions most of the time. If I needed something built just to gain more understanding about the technology I did so knowing that that money was just being spent not to have a working prototype but to gain more incite on way the technology actually works. So, once that "Ah Haw" moment happens you can start to build the technology based on what you understand about the underlying science behind the technology.


So, to answer your question one should approach and proceed with building replications in a manor that will allow them to gain an understanding of the true science behind what it is they are trying to replicate. Once you understand how it works then you can make changes to try and make things better as when starting off you should build things as close as you possible can to that which you are trying to replicate for if you don't you might introduce a lot of unknowns that you more than likely will not be prepared to deal with. Plus like always you must get the right tools for the job for the wrong tools will lead you in the wrong direction.


The faults I see others make all to often fall in those lines in that they don't want to answer their own questions, aren't willing to spend money to build things correctly or get the right tools for the job they are trying to replicate, and they aren't willing to put in the time or be committed to the task they set off to complete.
Well, this is my take on these matters.

Offline shylo

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 12:04:04 AM »
If I could understand how they worked before replicating, I could've saved alot of time.
Why replicate , build your own.
The rules are true, but incomplete I believe.
Lenz is a key player, it can beat you, or you can make it work for you.
No matter how much you baby your batteries, they will die.
Free power dosen't exist , you have to put something in, or nothing will come out.
If the wind stops we die, If the sun stops shining we die, actually the sun makes the wind,
Free lights 24/7 no problem, but it needs wind or solar
art v

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 12:04:04 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2017, 04:11:11 PM »
"No matter how much you baby your batteries, they
will die."

Utter garbage

Offline wattsup

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2017, 03:35:28 PM »
Replicating? Or, doing something is better then doing nothing?

Personally, if any @member had a DC motor turning a magnet wheel, I would recommend guys spend their next 90 days using it with as many different single pickups as possible because OU will be in the coupling method. So if you want to know where the OU is, it's in how the pickup sees that magnet passage or spin or swing. That will teach you 100 times more about coupling coils then anything else you can spend weeks trying to replicate. If someone finds a new topology in coupling of the magnet/iron/copper relationship, that will help way more then any replication. Yo do not need to replicate anything to do that and to eventually become a top level coupling specialist. It only take time and trials like any other research.

In any case, you cannot replicate what is not completely documented and proven to be OU otherwise you are not using what the particular inventor really left you and that is "how it did not work". We take the weak position that things work the way they are said to work, while we should be looking at why it did not work otherwise the inventors story would be totally different with OU already about. So in most cases replicating is just repeating the errors of the past. Why take the chance when if you know what you need to learn and work toward that will be much more rewarding in the long run.

If a good number of magnet wheel guys were working on developing crazy pick up topology and testing and taking down comparative data per coil type I figure someone will be bound to find something new fast enough. It's just that EE is so vast an ocean and it's easy to get lost without anchoring yourself to a few specific angles, you will get tossed around by any ocean current. A multi magnet wheel means you will always need to make many pick up coils, but many of one coil in fact, but which one? How can you just arbitrarily decide? Better we all spend many hours sleuthing the real single effects before making multiples. You can even make a contest with guys using let's say a same 15 pound pull NEO magnet type to see who can generate the most output. Those are the games that need to be played here and not like the annual build-offs where ego is the main motive.

If some work hard and concentrate on many trials, you will develop the coupling instinct. The more tests you do the more you will hone in on what YOU ARE LOOKING FOR and one day you will find it. Doing one build is like throwing one wormless hook in the lake when it would be better to get an idea on the water depths first.

Then, while one group works the coupling, another group challenges their works on the drive motor finding ways to increase available rpm and torque at lower energy usage. This is another avenue of where OU can hide. If you concentrate on where OU can hide and make each of those parts better, each component when brought together will produce OU for sure.

For me all of OU is coupling and that means how do these atoms really work together and how can I make them work even better. Standard pulsing cannot produce OU. Standard magnet wheel and stators cannot produce OU. Replicating is not the answer. Being smart in what you need to know is the only true base to advance. Then you use your smarts and find the solutions or ASK others. You can learn from five patents in small tests more then if you spent all that time doing one patent replication. So........ you better have a damn good reason to want to replicate anything except for the prestige, but prestige is not OU either.

I see guys building magnet wheels, deciding in advance how many magnets, distance from axis, how many pickup coils and coil types, any arbitrary drive motor, a flywheel of any size and weight, all decided way in advance as if all those variables, now fixed without any sound judgement, then expect to come to an OU result. That is the not OU R&D but more like OU Pot Shots. A shot in the dark. So what will you learn after you see the already expected drag freeze up the dc motor drive? All of that could have been worked out in the mind and by looking at youtube videos of past works of others. So why? Yeh yeh, the urge to build but still no OU and what did you learn besides it does not work when you already knew in advance it would not work but you still built it anyways. So why?

The last point is builders, replicators hate advice. They figure if they are paying with time and money, they should call all the shots and anyone trying to advise anything is just a chair OUer. Hahaha. So wrong. So our own human nature works against us everyday and no one is really serious but always able and willing to make a show of their building prowess. This whole thing is working backwards.

Lastly, one sentence of free advise. You like building so here is  one criteria you should hold near your heart and mind. Don't do anything that has been done before. If someone already did it and put up a youtube or web page showing it, then why should you do it if the OU is not there. Better you analyze what was done before and figure out where the hold backs are, fix those first then build something new.

wattsup

Offline Magluvin

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2017, 05:16:46 PM »
Replicating? Or, doing something is better then doing nothing?

Lastly, one sentence of free advise. You like building so here is  one criteria you should hold near your heart and mind. Don't do anything that has been done before. If someone already did it and put up a youtube or web page showing it, then why should you do it if the OU is not there. Better you analyze what was done before and figure out where the hold backs are, fix those first then build something new.

wattsup

Well this is about replicating. If one is going to confirm a former device, going off kilter from the start cant be a way to do so.

mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2017, 05:16:46 PM »
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Offline shylo

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2017, 09:49:56 AM »
Hi profits, "utter garbage", You know of some type of battery that last's forever?
art v

Offline h20power

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2017, 05:12:39 PM »
Replicating? Or, doing something is better then doing nothing?

Personally, if any @member had a DC motor turning a magnet wheel, I would recommend guys spend their next 90 days using it with as many different single pickups as possible because OU will be in the coupling method. So if you want to know where the OU is, it's in how the pickup sees that magnet passage or spin or swing. That will teach you 100 times more about coupling coils then anything else you can spend weeks trying to replicate. If someone finds a new topology in coupling of the magnet/iron/copper relationship, that will help way more then any replication. Yo do not need to replicate anything to do that and to eventually become a top level coupling specialist. It only take time and trials like any other research.

In any case, you cannot replicate what is not completely documented and proven to be OU otherwise you are not using what the particular inventor really left you and that is "how it did not work". We take the weak position that things work the way they are said to work, while we should be looking at why it did not work otherwise the inventors story would be totally different with OU already about. So in most cases replicating is just repeating the errors of the past. Why take the chance when if you know what you need to learn and work toward that will be much more rewarding in the long run.

If a good number of magnet wheel guys were working on developing crazy pick up topology and testing and taking down comparative data per coil type I figure someone will be bound to find something new fast enough. It's just that EE is so vast an ocean and it's easy to get lost without anchoring yourself to a few specific angles, you will get tossed around by any ocean current. A multi magnet wheel means you will always need to make many pick up coils, but many of one coil in fact, but which one? How can you just arbitrarily decide? Better we all spend many hours sleuthing the real single effects before making multiples. You can even make a contest with guys using let's say a same 15 pound pull NEO magnet type to see who can generate the most output. Those are the games that need to be played here and not like the annual build-offs where ego is the main motive.

If some work hard and concentrate on many trials, you will develop the coupling instinct. The more tests you do the more you will hone in on what YOU ARE LOOKING FOR and one day you will find it. Doing one build is like throwing one wormless hook in the lake when it would be better to get an idea on the water depths first.

Then, while one group works the coupling, another group challenges their works on the drive motor finding ways to increase available rpm and torque at lower energy usage. This is another avenue of where OU can hide. If you concentrate on where OU can hide and make each of those parts better, each component when brought together will produce OU for sure.

For me all of OU is coupling and that means how do these atoms really work together and how can I make them work even better. Standard pulsing cannot produce OU. Standard magnet wheel and stators cannot produce OU. Replicating is not the answer. Being smart in what you need to know is the only true base to advance. Then you use your smarts and find the solutions or ASK others. You can learn from five patents in small tests more then if you spent all that time doing one patent replication. So........ you better have a damn good reason to want to replicate anything except for the prestige, but prestige is not OU either.

I see guys building magnet wheels, deciding in advance how many magnets, distance from axis, how many pickup coils and coil types, any arbitrary drive motor, a flywheel of any size and weight, all decided way in advance as if all those variables, now fixed without any sound judgement, then expect to come to an OU result. That is the not OU R&D but more like OU Pot Shots. A shot in the dark. So what will you learn after you see the already expected drag freeze up the dc motor drive? All of that could have been worked out in the mind and by looking at youtube videos of past works of others. So why? Yeh yeh, the urge to build but still no OU and what did you learn besides it does not work when you already knew in advance it would not work but you still built it anyways. So why?

The last point is builders, replicators hate advice. They figure if they are paying with time and money, they should call all the shots and anyone trying to advise anything is just a chair OUer. Hahaha. So wrong. So our own human nature works against us everyday and no one is really serious but always able and willing to make a show of their building prowess. This whole thing is working backwards.

Lastly, one sentence of free advise. You like building so here is  one criteria you should hold near your heart and mind. Don't do anything that has been done before. If someone already did it and put up a youtube or web page showing it, then why should you do it if the OU is not there. Better you analyze what was done before and figure out where the hold backs are, fix those first then build something new.

wattsup


Your last points are way off as how can someone sitting on their butt give good advice on something they have no clue how it works? They haven't put in the time or spent a single dime on attempting to understand anything but their EGO likes to be heard so they make a fuss is all I see. There is a reason why no one likes to make use of the scientific method and that reason is it requires them to actually build and test something asking and answering questions as they go about trying to understand unknowns. So, people not doing anything truly need to sit it out as they haven't a clue what it is they are talking about. Making use of the scientific method will require one to get the proper testing equipment which is costly at times. You must ask and answer many questions on the data collected from your experiments failure to do so lead one in circles or give one the wrong answers but always making use of the scientific method allows one to test things out and get answers.
Like I stated in a post above people love to try and get someone else to answer questions they have as that puts the burden of actually spending money on something they think is right onto someone else. If your not willing to build, test, observer, and record your results then you have no say. Sorry bud but that's the way things go.


One thing that truly gets under my skin is someone trying to get people to do things they themselves are unwilling to do. Trust me I have seen this many times while trying to solve the work of Stanley Meyer as people will say all kinds of foolish stuff that makes no sense to those of us that are actually doing the work and observing the results. When it comes to figuring out the actual science behind Meyer's work these people actually steered people away from people like me whom where actually doing the work and in doing so made it so there is now a very large gap between what is really taking place in reality and what is only taking place between someones ears outside of reality. This divide grew and grew to the point that when I speak about this technology no one understands a word I am talking about for they have allowed themselves to be lead by these very people you claim have something useful to say. The true problem is there are just so many of these ego driven people and they will promote each others ideas even though there is no data supporting their claims. Thus if the blind lead the blind then both shall fall into a ditch, but they are also like crabs as anyone they see trying to get out of the ditch they reach up and try and pull them back down. So, I sat back and let these people run out of steam as eventually they would run out of ideas people are willing to listen to. That took about ten years of waiting but at last most of them have completely run out of steam and have thrown in the towel now.


That sad part is the path they left behind remains for others to fall into these ditches they left are but stumbling blocks for others to fall into that come after them. So, again my words of wisdom in making use of the scientific method holds as I haven't changed my tune in a very long time now. Asking and answering questions is the way to success and one must be willing to follow wherever the data leads them no matter the cost. Always remember good observations is good science.

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2017, 06:35:50 PM »
Hi profits, "utter garbage", You know of some type of battery that last's forever?
art v
yes it's called radiant energy, every thing comes from it but electrons (screw with it), even your soul is energy from the cos-mos battery ;) your problem is you don't know hoe to tap into it, that's your main objective if its not make it so.

The fact people in power don't want you to know and make any one look stupid who asks questions in not important.

Y ou want Ricity not Electricity  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

AG

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2017, 06:42:38 PM »

Your last points are way off as how can someone sitting on their butt give good advice on something they have no clue how it works? They haven't put in the time or spent a single dime on attempting to understand anything but their EGO likes to be heard so they make a fuss is all I see. There is a reason why no one likes to make use of the scientific method and that reason is it requires them to actually build and test something asking and answering questions as they go about trying to understand unknowns. So, people not doing anything truly need to sit it out as they haven't a clue what it is they are talking about. Making use of the scientific method will require one to get the proper testing equipment which is costly at times. You must ask and answer many questions on the data collected from your experiments failure to do so lead one in circles or give one the wrong answers but always making use of the scientific method allows one to test things out and get answers.
Like I stated in a post above people love to try and get someone else to answer questions they have as that puts the burden of actually spending money on something they think is right onto someone else. If your not willing to build, test, observer, and record your results then you have no say. Sorry bud but that's the way things go.


One thing that truly gets under my skin is someone trying to get people to do things they themselves are unwilling to do. Trust me I have seen this many times while trying to solve the work of Stanley Meyer as people will say all kinds of foolish stuff that makes no sense to those of us that are actually doing the work and observing the results. When it comes to figuring out the actual science behind Meyer's work these people actually steered people away from people like me whom where actually doing the work and in doing so made it so there is now a very large gap between what is really taking place in reality and what is only taking place between someones ears outside of reality. This divide grew and grew to the point that when I speak about this technology no one understands a word I am talking about for they have allowed themselves to be lead by these very people you claim have something useful to say. The true problem is there are just so many of these ego driven people and they will promote each others ideas even though there is no data supporting their claims. Thus if the blind lead the blind then both shall fall into a ditch, but they are also like crabs as anyone they see trying to get out of the ditch they reach up and try and pull them back down. So, I sat back and let these people run out of steam as eventually they would run out of ideas people are willing to listen to. That took about ten years of waiting but at last most of them have completely run out of steam and have thrown in the towel now.


That sad part is the path they left behind remains for others to fall into these ditches they left are but stumbling blocks for others to fall into that come after them. So, again my words of wisdom in making use of the scientific method holds as I haven't changed my tune in a very long time now. Asking and answering questions is the way to success and one must be willing to follow wherever the data leads them no matter the cost. Always remember good observations is good science.
Whats all  this ;)  I can't put this device in my radio or my walkman, the guy wants a device to copy to give away, if you have something post it please do ! ;) or better still send it to 'watsup' he did a lot of work on the device have you looked at his youtube site ?

Offline wattsup

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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2017, 12:26:37 AM »
@h20power

You have it all wrong man.

@AlienGrey

I did not understand your post.

wattsup


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Re: How We Should Approach And Proceed With Building Replications
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2017, 12:26:37 AM »

 

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