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Author Topic: Confirmation of OU devices and claims  (Read 30877 times)

Offline Void

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2017, 09:27:32 PM »
Some hints: "The Watson machine was discharging 45000 uF (3 x 15000) capacitors charged to about 50 V, once a second into the batteries. ... J

If the caps were completely discharged every second (which they probably weren't if they were discharging into a battery),
and then fully recharged to 50V every second, it would work out to 56.25 Watts output to the batteries. If the capacitors were only being
partially discharged into the batteries every second, then the power output from the discharging caps would be less than 56.25 Watts.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2017, 09:27:32 PM »

Offline Grumage

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2017, 09:42:15 PM »
Here is a link to a thread by someone that claims he was successful in building the Bedini/Watson machine.  He originally made an offer to me to let me come see it in operation.  Then he said he was moving.  After he got moved I tracked him down again but he said he was on the road all the time with a new job.  I never did get to see it in person.  I did not take time to go back through the whole thread but I believe there was a video or two of it operating.  And there were several pictures and drawings if I recall correctly.  Might be worth looking into his claims.

Hi Carroll.

It seems you forgot the link.   :)

A " 24 volt series wound aircraft starter motor ". Starter motors really " pull the juice " way beyond 12 Kw.... However I'm more inclined to the 12 Kv statement based upon the high voltage spikes I got when playing with Bedini's SSG.

Gearing was also mentioned, looking at the picture everything is " in line " could the motor have had a built in epicyclic gearbox?

Cheers Graham.

 

Offline citfta

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2017, 10:07:29 PM »

http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/10830-bizzys-bedini-machine-aka-watson-machine.html?highlight=Bizzy

Old age sure causes memory problems.  LOL

Thanks Graham for catching that.

Offline norman6538

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2017, 11:16:10 PM »
Since John Bedini passed then is Jim Watson around?

As I understand John's original energizer it had 2 parts to the rotation cycle.
One to turn mechanically and the other to generate current. In the case of the school
girl motor which everybody got excited about it had 2 outputs 1. mechanical ie would
drive a fan and 2. electrical to charge the battery which was usually wasted power that
was used to effectively make the battery run the mechanical setup longer....

Then everybody went on to the window motor. I did not follow that one.
Maybe somebody else can comment on that.

But as for known overunity that can be demonstrated, the selection is slim to non.

However if you recall Naudin had a bingo fuel generator that looped - made gas that
ran the motor that ran the generator/welder that made the gas....
It behooves me that nobody picked up on the. To me its another lifter project of more
potential value.

Norman


Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2017, 01:18:55 AM »

We are on the same page.....however.....in light of all the copying and pasting that was going on back in the day.....and this coupled to my own endeavours, I am inclined to think that it wasn't a typo...  in the right circuit, 12kv can work wonders... 


15uF @ 12kv nets you a tad over 1k joules....
170uF @ 12kv nets you a tad over 12k joules.... yeah.... 


I think I am going to stick with 12kv Gylula......







Regards

I see problems with the original circuit/schematic being 12Kv

First problem--dumping 12Kv into a 12 or 24 volt battery?  :o
Second problem--12Kv will jump a gap of about 7mm,and so we would have one hell of a light show at the commutator switch.

Quote
on another note.... me thinks something's not quite right with the circuit....but that's me....

I see in the original black and white circuit,there is no FWBR across the energizer.
But there is one in the Bedini version.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2017, 01:18:55 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2017, 01:21:23 AM »
If the caps were completely discharged every second (which they probably weren't if they were discharging into a battery),
and then fully recharged to 50V every second, it would work out to 56.25 Watts output to the batteries. If the capacitors were only being
partially discharged into the batteries every second, then the power output from the discharging caps would be less than 56.25 Watts.

The caps would only drop down to battery voltage at best,so they will never be fully discharged.

Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2017, 01:31:13 AM »
author=Grumage link=topic=17491.msg512951#msg512951 date=1510432935]



Quote
Starter motors really " pull the juice " way beyond 12 Kw....

Close to Grum.
To pull 12Kw,a 24v starter motor would have to be drawing 500 amps,which is very likely under full load at a 100% duty cycle.

But here we have the motor running at 2500RPM !apparently!,and at about a 25% duty cycle.
At 2500RPM,the motor would be producing a lot of BEMF,and so the current draw would be a lot lower--closer to say 50 amps.

So 50 x 24 is 1200 watts,at a duty cycle of around 25% = 300 watts.

Quote
Gearing was also mentioned, looking at the picture everything is " in line " could the motor have had a built in epicyclic gearbox?

I also see no gearbox.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2017, 01:31:13 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2017, 01:33:38 AM »
.


However if you recall Naudin had a bingo fuel generator that looped - made gas that
ran the motor that ran the generator/welder that made the gas....
It behooves me that nobody picked up on the. To me its another lifter project of more
potential value.

Norman

As both the motor and hydrogen generator both run at high losses,i doubt it was a self runner.

Brad

Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2017, 01:58:43 AM »
So,is it going to be the Bedini energizer?

I have modified the below schematic to include the cap--would this be correct?

I have all the parts needed
The motor
The duel pole-duel throw relay,rated at 60 amp's.
A 38kg flywheel
4x high current 10 000Uf 63v caps
Magnets ?--any one know what type of magnets John used in his energizer,as he always seem'd to have a soft spot for ferrite ,but i have 19mm x 25mm neo's

Coils i can wind--any spec's on those,other than 250 turns each? What core material?.Wire size?.--are they hooked in series or parallel ?--guess we can sort that out when it's running,and set to achieve our 50 volt's at the caps.

Was there claims that this device is an OU device?
What was it's purpose?,as all i see is a motor drawing power from the source,and a generator returning power back to the source.


Brad

Offline stupify12

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2017, 02:13:19 AM »
So,is it going to be the Bedini energizer?

I have modified the below schematic to include the cap--would this be correct?

I have all the parts needed
The motor
The duel pole-duel throw relay,rated at 60 amp's.
A 38kg flywheel
4x high current 10 000Uf 63v caps
Magnets ?--any one know what type of magnets John used in his energizer,as he always seem'd to have a soft spot for ferrite ,but i have 19mm x 25mm neo's

Coils i can wind--any spec's on those,other than 250 turns each? What core material?.Wire size?.--are they hooked in series or parallel ?--guess we can sort that out when it's running,and set to achieve our 50 volt's at the caps.

Was there claims that this device is an OU device?
What was it's purpose?,as all i see is a motor drawing power from the source,and a generator returning power back to the source.


Brad

The proven OU device here is the FLYWHEEL, but nobody seems to check i posted above on this page.  We might need Buck-Boost converter on that HV capacitor being charge to convert it to pure amperage(12v or 24v) that can drive the motor when switch over. Chas Campbell was one of the example, so many have already uploaded the so called FLYWHEEL Free Energy Generator on the Youtube.

Will

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2017, 02:13:19 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2017, 02:25:08 AM »
OK,found the claim--oh,and the books you need to buy to make it work lol  ::)

Thirty years ago at the Tesla Symposium in Colorado Springs, Jim Watson demonstrated a very large scale machine based on John Bedini’s 1984 Free Energy Generator.

At the conference, the machine was running and producing a lot of mechanical work, but what was amazing is that it kept itself charged up the whole time!

It had a large three foot diameter flywheel that weighed about 800 pounds attached to an aircraft starter motor, which was battery-powered. The generator section charged a bunch of coils like a magneto, which sent this back to the battery running the machine.

Below is a diagram that John Bedini showed for his smaller prototype.


Between this image and some other diagrams – Jim Watson who had no electrical engineering background make it work.

Over the years, many people have tried and failed at replicating these claims. Very soon, we are releasing Bedini SG – The Complete Advanced Handbook. Included in this highly anticipated release are details about the Watson Machine that nobody has figured out in the last 30 years. And, the keys to making it work have been sitting right there in plain site!

There are already two books: Bedini SG – The Complete Beginner’s Handbook and Bedini SG – The Complete Intermediate Handbook. These are an absolute requirement to have in order to understand the basic working principles of self-regenerative energizers. And with the Advanced book coming, it will take everyone’s experiments and results to the next level!


So,all those that bought the !The Complete Advanced Handbook! ,should now have working machine's,where the battery remains charged,while the motor continue's to do mechanical work.

Source

https://emediapress.com/2014/10/21/watson-machine/

Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2017, 02:41:43 AM »
Ok,so after much hunting,i found a link to a thread at EF,that is about the energizer.

From Peter Lindermann him self,which confirms some of my earlier thoughts.

Quote:
Hi Guys,

Thought I'd drop in and share a few things.

There is another interesting feature of the Watson Machine that is usually overlooked, and that is the motor. The salvaged aircraft starter/generator unit was essentially a system that had a wound field and a wound rotor, with a brush commutator. It was probably SERIES WOUND. This means that when the motor is offered electric current from the battery, it will produce bursts of TORQUE. It also means that when the motor is disconnected from the battery, it will produce NO back EMF and NO DRAG except for the brush friction.

If you attempt to use a DC motor with a permanent magnet field in this machine, it won't work, because these motors ALWAYS produce reverse currents into the shorted turns of the rotor windings, and therefore, always produce DRAG when not connected to a power supply! You can see this behavior quite easily when you try to spin the shaft. A permanent magnet field DC motor will NOT free wheel when disconnected from power. They stop very quickly due to their internal short circuit on the rotor!

For those of you who have seen my DVD Electric Motor Secrets, you may also understand that if this motor/flywheel system is run at a speed that is significantly near the top speed of the motor for its excitation voltage, the current draw will be greatly reduced, because the internal back EMF of the motor will be approaching maximum. There are other subtleties to this aspect of the machine that only become apparent after significant experimentation with motors.

With the permanent magnet induced, inductive collapse "energizer" driving into a capacitor, the back EMF drag of the generator section drops to a very low value because the system is encouraged to produce VOLTAGE instead of current. Current production is the ONLY aspect of electricity that causes DRAG according to Lenz Law, not voltage.

This is the first machine that Bedini developed for the charging of a battery from a capacitor dump. Its a brilliant little arrangement because the capacitor never drops below the battery voltage, so when it is disconnected from the battery, 100% of the energy it receives from the "energizer" is added to the capacitor at a voltage ABOVE the battery voltage. So, the system can produce 100% of its energy at reduced back EMF and make ALL of it available to the battery.

With the flywheel storing the torque, produced by the motor pulses and consumed by the "current production" of the energizer, the "window" for understanding HOW the machine can go OU is revealed. This machine cannot work without a proportional flywheel and a good, low friction bearing system.

The secret of the machine is in "managing" the back EMF production in both the motor and the generator. The motor MUST be able to operate in a pure "free wheel mode" in-between the torque pulses it contributes. The energizer MUST charge into a capacitor so its output is biased toward VOLTAGE production and away from current. This reduces the back EMF drag (reverse motoring effect) it produces.

When all of the components are proportional (tuned) and the system gets up to operational speed, the losses go to minimum and the COP goes above 1 and the battery starts charging.

So,i have highlighted key points.

1-we need a series or parallel wound DC motor--not a PM DC motor--Peter says-->probably SERIES WOUND.
As i stated to Grum,and confirmed by PL-->understand that if this motor/flywheel system is run at a speed that is significantly near the top speed of the motor for its excitation voltage, the current draw will be greatly reduced, because the internal back EMF of the motor will be approaching maximum

No problem,i have many starter motors  ;)

2-,we need high voltage output from the energizer--Erfinder seems to be on track there.

3-we do need a cap/cap bank-as i added into the schematic.

Bit i dont see or understand in regards to the provided schematic--->Quote: With the permanent magnet induced, inductive collapse "energizer"

Where is this inductive collapse mechanism in the schematic ?,as all i see is the gen coils going straight to a FWBR  ???

And yes--we have the claim by PL
Quote: the losses go to minimum and the COP goes above 1


Source

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3927-watson-machine.html#post48882


Brad

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2017, 03:09:02 AM »
The proven OU device here is the FLYWHEEL, but nobody seems to check i posted above on this page.  We might need Buck-Boost converter on that HV capacitor being charge to convert it to pure amperage(12v or 24v) that can drive the motor when switch over. Chas Campbell was one of the example, so many have already uploaded the so called FLYWHEEL Free Energy Generator on the Youtube.

Will

No, FLYWHEELs are energy _storage_ devices. You get out what you put in, minus losses. Do you think a Bank is a money source? No... you get out what you put in, or you have to pay back more than you take out in loans.

None of the alleged flywheel Free Energy Generator devices actually work to give more out than in.


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2017, 03:16:30 AM »
Brad -- you and I both know that Lindeman's claims are just that: claims, full of hot air, never demonstrated to be truly OU by anyone who has ever tried them and certainly never self-looped or daisy-chained. I don't think he'd recognize a 24 volt aircraft starter motor if he woke up next to one some morning.

But since this topic is here and talking about _unproven_ things and things which have already been proven false, I've decided to share my EEEE apparatus design here.

Most of this system has already been proven to work.  8)


Offline profitis

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2017, 03:30:21 AM »
"And with the Advanced book coming, it
will take everyone’s experiments and results to the
next level!"

Peel that onion DOWN bro

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2017, 03:30:21 AM »

 

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