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Author Topic: Confirmation of OU devices and claims  (Read 8260 times)

Offline stupify12

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2017, 06:28:07 PM »
Try to search Youtube : Flywheel Free Energy Generator devices. That drawing has been proven and tested for many replicators, they replicate base on Chas Campbell design. Many has never seen the Watson machine.

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2017, 06:28:07 PM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2017, 08:46:45 PM »

right.....  I too recall reading somewhere that it was a typo...  what if it wasn't a typo though...  folk will be hard pressed trying to reproduce a 12kw claim, however, it may prove to be a worthy lesson, learning what it takes to produce 12kv in the "suggested" manner...

Well, Peter Lindemann described the Watson machine as close as he possibly could from witnesses and from 'logical deductions' in the "Bedini SG the Complete Advanced Handbook", see chapter 7.

Some hints: "The Watson machine was discharging 45000 uF (3 x 15000) capacitors charged to about 50 V, once a second into the batteries. ... John Bedini said that the relay timing was set for "once per second" switching, meaning that the machine would run the motor from the battery for one second while the capacitors were being charged. Then the relay would switch, and the machine would run from the flywheel while the capacitors discharged into the battery followed by the rest of the whole second of Energizer impulses going straight to the battery. At the end of the 2nd second, the relay would switch again, and the cycle would repeat. The method allowed 100% of the output of the Energizer to be transferred to the battery while the motor runs from the battery only 50% of the time. ... The motor running at high speed while the very large flywheel ran at a lower speed provided a very stable operation to the Energizer and maintained a relatively low power requirement to the motor. ... There were two 12 V batteries wired in parallel."

All in all, if we accept all these, then it is unlikely there was 12 kV involved and the 12 kW power number surely remains questionable,  even though the huge flywheel were capable of storing very high kinetic energy because its OD was estimated 61.4 cm, its weight was 46 kg cast iron and its RPM was estimated at 500 through a gear reduction anywhere between 6 to 1 and 10 to 1, driven from a 24 V series wound air craft starter motor. One wonders whether Jim Watson run the 24 V motor from the 12 V batteries that were said to be wired in parallel by Peter L, that is a possibility of course. (Jim Watson did not let Bedini to examine the machine closely...)   

So the performance of the Watson machine still remains a mystery...

Gyula


Offline Erfinder

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2017, 09:03:38 PM »
Well, Peter Lindemann described the Watson machine as close as he possibly could from witnesses and from 'logical deductions' in the "Bedini SG the Complete Advanced Handbook", see chapter 7.

Some hints: "The Watson machine was discharging 45000 uF (3 x 15000) capacitors charged to about 50 V, once a second into the batteries. ... John Bedini said that the relay timing was set for "once per second" switching, meaning that the machine would run the motor from the battery for one second while the capacitors were being charged. Then the relay would switch, and the machine would run from the flywheel while the capacitors discharged into the battery followed by the rest of the whole second of Energizer impulses going straight to the battery. At the end of the 2nd second, the relay would switch again, and the cycle would repeat. The method allowed 100% of the output of the Energizer to be transferred to the battery while the motor runs from the battery only 50% of the time. ... The motor running at high speed while the very large flywheel ran at a lower speed provided a very stable operation to the Energizer and maintained a relatively low power requirement to the motor. ... There were two 12 V batteries wired in parallel."

All in all, if we accept all these, then it is unlikely there was 12 kV involved and the 12 kW power number surely remains questionable,  even though the huge flywheel were capable of storing very high kinetic energy because its OD was estimated 61.4 cm, its weight was 46 kg cast iron and its RPM was estimated at 500 through a gear reduction anywhere between 6 to 1 and 10 to 1, driven from a 24 V series wound air craft starter motor. One wonders whether Jim Watson run the 24 V motor from the 12 V batteries that were said to be wired in parallel by Peter L, that is a possibility of course. (Jim Watson did not let Bedini to examine the machine closely...)   

So the performance of the Watson machine still remains a mystery...

Gyula


We are on the same page.....however.....in light of all the copying and pasting that was going on back in the day.....and this coupled to my own endeavours, I am inclined to think that it wasn't a typo...  in the right circuit, 12kv can work wonders... 


15uF @ 12kv nets you a tad over 1k joules....
170uF @ 12kv nets you a tad over 12k joules.... yeah.... 


I think I am going to stick with 12kv Gylula......


on another note.... me thinks something's not quite right with the circuit....but that's me....




Regards

Offline citfta

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2017, 09:08:27 PM »
Here is a link to a thread by someone that claims he was successful in building the Bedini/Watson machine.  He originally made an offer to me to let me come see it in operation.  Then he said he was moving.  After he got moved I tracked him down again but he said he was on the road all the time with a new job.  I never did get to see it in person.  I did not take time to go back through the whole thread but I believe there was a video or two of it operating.  And there were several pictures and drawings if I recall correctly.  Might be worth looking into his claims.


Offline Void

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2017, 09:27:32 PM »
Some hints: "The Watson machine was discharging 45000 uF (3 x 15000) capacitors charged to about 50 V, once a second into the batteries. ... J

If the caps were completely discharged every second (which they probably weren't if they were discharging into a battery),
and then fully recharged to 50V every second, it would work out to 56.25 Watts output to the batteries. If the capacitors were only being
partially discharged into the batteries every second, then the power output from the discharging caps would be less than 56.25 Watts.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2017, 09:27:32 PM »
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Offline Grumage

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2017, 09:42:15 PM »
Here is a link to a thread by someone that claims he was successful in building the Bedini/Watson machine.  He originally made an offer to me to let me come see it in operation.  Then he said he was moving.  After he got moved I tracked him down again but he said he was on the road all the time with a new job.  I never did get to see it in person.  I did not take time to go back through the whole thread but I believe there was a video or two of it operating.  And there were several pictures and drawings if I recall correctly.  Might be worth looking into his claims.

Hi Carroll.

It seems you forgot the link.   :)

A " 24 volt series wound aircraft starter motor ". Starter motors really " pull the juice " way beyond 12 Kw.... However I'm more inclined to the 12 Kv statement based upon the high voltage spikes I got when playing with Bedini's SSG.

Gearing was also mentioned, looking at the picture everything is " in line " could the motor have had a built in epicyclic gearbox?

Cheers Graham.

 

Offline citfta

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 10:07:29 PM »

http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/10830-bizzys-bedini-machine-aka-watson-machine.html?highlight=Bizzy

Old age sure causes memory problems.  LOL

Thanks Graham for catching that.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 10:07:29 PM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2017, 11:16:10 PM »
Since John Bedini passed then is Jim Watson around?

As I understand John's original energizer it had 2 parts to the rotation cycle.
One to turn mechanically and the other to generate current. In the case of the school
girl motor which everybody got excited about it had 2 outputs 1. mechanical ie would
drive a fan and 2. electrical to charge the battery which was usually wasted power that
was used to effectively make the battery run the mechanical setup longer....

Then everybody went on to the window motor. I did not follow that one.
Maybe somebody else can comment on that.

But as for known overunity that can be demonstrated, the selection is slim to non.

However if you recall Naudin had a bingo fuel generator that looped - made gas that
ran the motor that ran the generator/welder that made the gas....
It behooves me that nobody picked up on the. To me its another lifter project of more
potential value.

Norman


Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2017, 01:18:55 AM »

We are on the same page.....however.....in light of all the copying and pasting that was going on back in the day.....and this coupled to my own endeavours, I am inclined to think that it wasn't a typo...  in the right circuit, 12kv can work wonders... 


15uF @ 12kv nets you a tad over 1k joules....
170uF @ 12kv nets you a tad over 12k joules.... yeah.... 


I think I am going to stick with 12kv Gylula......







Regards

I see problems with the original circuit/schematic being 12Kv

First problem--dumping 12Kv into a 12 or 24 volt battery?  :o
Second problem--12Kv will jump a gap of about 7mm,and so we would have one hell of a light show at the commutator switch.

Quote
on another note.... me thinks something's not quite right with the circuit....but that's me....

I see in the original black and white circuit,there is no FWBR across the energizer.
But there is one in the Bedini version.


Brad

Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2017, 01:21:23 AM »
If the caps were completely discharged every second (which they probably weren't if they were discharging into a battery),
and then fully recharged to 50V every second, it would work out to 56.25 Watts output to the batteries. If the capacitors were only being
partially discharged into the batteries every second, then the power output from the discharging caps would be less than 56.25 Watts.

The caps would only drop down to battery voltage at best,so they will never be fully discharged.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2017, 01:21:23 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2017, 01:31:13 AM »
author=Grumage link=topic=17491.msg512951#msg512951 date=1510432935]



Quote
Starter motors really " pull the juice " way beyond 12 Kw....

Close to Grum.
To pull 12Kw,a 24v starter motor would have to be drawing 500 amps,which is very likely under full load at a 100% duty cycle.

But here we have the motor running at 2500RPM !apparently!,and at about a 25% duty cycle.
At 2500RPM,the motor would be producing a lot of BEMF,and so the current draw would be a lot lower--closer to say 50 amps.

So 50 x 24 is 1200 watts,at a duty cycle of around 25% = 300 watts.

Quote
Gearing was also mentioned, looking at the picture everything is " in line " could the motor have had a built in epicyclic gearbox?

I also see no gearbox.


Brad

Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2017, 01:33:38 AM »
.


However if you recall Naudin had a bingo fuel generator that looped - made gas that
ran the motor that ran the generator/welder that made the gas....
It behooves me that nobody picked up on the. To me its another lifter project of more
potential value.

Norman

As both the motor and hydrogen generator both run at high losses,i doubt it was a self runner.

Brad


Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2017, 01:58:43 AM »
So,is it going to be the Bedini energizer?

I have modified the below schematic to include the cap--would this be correct?

I have all the parts needed
The motor
The duel pole-duel throw relay,rated at 60 amp's.
A 38kg flywheel
4x high current 10 000Uf 63v caps
Magnets ?--any one know what type of magnets John used in his energizer,as he always seem'd to have a soft spot for ferrite ,but i have 19mm x 25mm neo's

Coils i can wind--any spec's on those,other than 250 turns each? What core material?.Wire size?.--are they hooked in series or parallel ?--guess we can sort that out when it's running,and set to achieve our 50 volt's at the caps.

Was there claims that this device is an OU device?
What was it's purpose?,as all i see is a motor drawing power from the source,and a generator returning power back to the source.


Brad

Offline stupify12

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2017, 02:13:19 AM »
So,is it going to be the Bedini energizer?

I have modified the below schematic to include the cap--would this be correct?

I have all the parts needed
The motor
The duel pole-duel throw relay,rated at 60 amp's.
A 38kg flywheel
4x high current 10 000Uf 63v caps
Magnets ?--any one know what type of magnets John used in his energizer,as he always seem'd to have a soft spot for ferrite ,but i have 19mm x 25mm neo's

Coils i can wind--any spec's on those,other than 250 turns each? What core material?.Wire size?.--are they hooked in series or parallel ?--guess we can sort that out when it's running,and set to achieve our 50 volt's at the caps.

Was there claims that this device is an OU device?
What was it's purpose?,as all i see is a motor drawing power from the source,and a generator returning power back to the source.


Brad

The proven OU device here is the FLYWHEEL, but nobody seems to check i posted above on this page.  We might need Buck-Boost converter on that HV capacitor being charge to convert it to pure amperage(12v or 24v) that can drive the motor when switch over. Chas Campbell was one of the example, so many have already uploaded the so called FLYWHEEL Free Energy Generator on the Youtube.

Will


Offline tinman

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Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2017, 02:25:08 AM »
OK,found the claim--oh,and the books you need to buy to make it work lol  ::)

Thirty years ago at the Tesla Symposium in Colorado Springs, Jim Watson demonstrated a very large scale machine based on John Bedini’s 1984 Free Energy Generator.

At the conference, the machine was running and producing a lot of mechanical work, but what was amazing is that it kept itself charged up the whole time!

It had a large three foot diameter flywheel that weighed about 800 pounds attached to an aircraft starter motor, which was battery-powered. The generator section charged a bunch of coils like a magneto, which sent this back to the battery running the machine.

Below is a diagram that John Bedini showed for his smaller prototype.


Between this image and some other diagrams – Jim Watson who had no electrical engineering background make it work.

Over the years, many people have tried and failed at replicating these claims. Very soon, we are releasing Bedini SG – The Complete Advanced Handbook. Included in this highly anticipated release are details about the Watson Machine that nobody has figured out in the last 30 years. And, the keys to making it work have been sitting right there in plain site!

There are already two books: Bedini SG – The Complete Beginner’s Handbook and Bedini SG – The Complete Intermediate Handbook. These are an absolute requirement to have in order to understand the basic working principles of self-regenerative energizers. And with the Advanced book coming, it will take everyone’s experiments and results to the next level!


So,all those that bought the !The Complete Advanced Handbook! ,should now have working machine's,where the battery remains charged,while the motor continue's to do mechanical work.

Source

https://emediapress.com/2014/10/21/watson-machine/

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirmation of OU devices and claims
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2017, 02:25:08 AM »

 

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