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Author Topic: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....  (Read 14381 times)

Offline hoptoad

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #285 on: November 11, 2017, 11:54:46 AM »
snip....
Well get to it then. Show us what you want to show us.
snip....
Milehigh writes a great many truths, is occasionally wrong, human like the rest of us. But to get him to roll up his sleeves and do some bench work, then show it, may require a miracle that is beyond anyone's expectations. :P
Quote
snip...
I loved science classes. We never got into this particular stuff ever. Not even in in vo-tech classes for electronics the last 3 years of high school, or even during my time at Electronic Institute of Pittsburgh.  Not even 1 guy I have talked to about this in all of the mech shops I deal with knows much about any of what is actually happening here.
snip...
Mags
Perhaps you were unlucky. As a telecommunications technician in the early 1970s, I was lucky enough to experience training in technology going back as far as the 1930/40s that was still in operation, side by side with 1950/60s and 1970s equipment. As such, a sound knowledge of relay (inductor) behaviour coupled with RC circuits and various switching techniques, was essential, given that almost all pre-1960s telecommunications equipment was relay (inductor) driven.

On two points, I agree with Milehigh. Efficiency must be defined. Energy is accountable.

Efficiency can be defined as result versus effort. But that doesn't necessarily mean, the greatest result from the least energy, unless you specifically define efficiency with those parameters in mind.

For example : Lets say I'm a soldier who wishes to kill an enemy at 1000 meters. I can take aim with a high powered rifle and hope I get a direct hit. Or I can fire a short range artillery shell at the same target. I might be lucky in the first instance if I hit the target and killed my enemy, but I'd be incredibly unlucky if I did the same with artillery and didn't kill the enemy with a direct hit.

Obviously artillery is more expensive and high energy expenditure. But the result is likely to be more efficient, if only the result (killed enemy at 1000 meters) is the measure to be taken.

Bad example I know, but something to think about. Desired results sometimes demand high expenditure, but ways of reducing expenditure should always be explored.
Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #286 on: November 12, 2017, 01:10:43 AM »
<<< Well get to it then. Show us what you want to show us. >>>
<<< But to get him to roll up his sleeves and do some bench work, then show it, may require a miracle that is beyond anyone's expectations.  >>>

You're both just trolling me.

Magsy, you get into it, you have the setup.  Why is the spark bigger with the capacitor?  How does the ignition coil circuit actually work?  Where is the input energy going?  What is the complete timing diagram for the ignition coil circuit?  After all this time and with your own setup you haven't answered those questions yourself.

<<<  How many pages since page 2 have you gotten it wrong?  That 12 yr old your talking about is kicking your ass. lol.  Come on dude. Takes a lot of balls to come up with a statement like that after reading the thread up until that last post. Dont ya think?  >>>

Your claim from the beginning was that resonance between the primary and the capacitor was how the ignition coil circuit worked and you got it wrong.  Welcome to the club.  And from what I am hearing from you, you still have it wrong.

You have almost just been a bystander for the first main part of the thread where the ignition coil circuit was discussed.  Yes, it is a bit more involved than we thought and I did the digging and iterated through the process and got up the learning curve and now I am quite certain that I have it right and I understand the nuances.  Meanwhile, you did a few clips showing small sparks and big sparks and then a clip where you scoped the primary and saw the oscillations and then you folded up and called it a day.  In other words, show and don't tell and don't explain which is just classic behaviour for the forum.  You have not come up with any tests on your own to investigate what is going on in your setup.  You did a close-up and saw multiple spark streams and then said, "See, this is proof that the oscillations in the resonant ring-down have a benefit" or something to that effect.  You have no data to back up that claim and it is highly dubious.  My gut feel is telling me that the air will spontaneously break down into multiple plasma streamers when driven by a discharging coil, irregardless of any "oscillations."

You have a setup and I am not seeing you actually apply your knowledge and bench skills to really get down and answer the questions for your own satisfaction and that of the readers:  Why is the spark bigger with the capacitor?  Where is the input energy going?  How does the ignition coil circuit actually work?  What is the complete timing diagram for the ignition coil circuit?

I am not seeing you develop any of your own tests using your own brainpower to analyze this circuit.  I even mentioned several possible tests to you in PM and there was the sound of one hand clapping in response.

And absolutely yes, an astute 12-year-old that is really interested in electronics could answer all of the aforementioned questions and explain all of the nuances.


Offline tinman

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #287 on: November 12, 2017, 08:08:48 AM »
<<< Well get to it then. Show us what you want to show us. >>>
<<< But to get him to roll up his sleeves and do some bench work, then show it, may require a miracle that is beyond anyone's expectations.  >>>

You're both just trolling me.

Magsy, you get into it, you have the setup.    How does the ignition coil circuit actually work?  Where is the input energy going?  What is the complete timing diagram for the ignition coil circuit?  After all this time and with your own setup you haven't answered those questions yourself.

<<<  How many pages since page 2 have you gotten it wrong?  That 12 yr old your talking about is kicking your ass. lol.  Come on dude. Takes a lot of balls to come up with a statement like that after reading the thread up until that last post. Dont ya think?  >>>

Your claim from the beginning was that resonance between the primary and the capacitor was how the ignition coil circuit worked and you got it wrong.  Welcome to the club.  And from what I am hearing from you, you still have it wrong.

You have almost just been a bystander for the first main part of the thread where the ignition coil circuit was discussed.  Yes, it is a bit more involved than we thought and I did the digging and iterated through the process and got up the learning curve and now I am quite certain that I have it right and I understand the nuances.  Meanwhile, you did a few clips showing small sparks and big sparks and then a clip where you scoped the primary and saw the oscillations and then you folded up and called it a day.  In other words, show and don't tell and don't explain which is just classic behaviour for the forum.  You have not come up with any tests on your own to investigate what is going on in your setup.  You did a close-up and saw multiple spark streams and then said, "See, this is proof that the oscillations in the resonant ring-down have a benefit" or something to that effect.  You have no data to back up that claim and it is highly dubious.  My gut feel is telling me that the air will spontaneously break down into multiple plasma streamers when driven by a discharging coil, irregardless of any "oscillations."

You have a setup and I am not seeing you actually apply your knowledge and bench skills to really get down and answer the questions for your own satisfaction and that of the readers:  Why is the spark bigger with the capacitor?  Where is the input energy going?  How does the ignition coil circuit actually work?  What is the complete timing diagram for the ignition coil circuit?

I am not seeing you develop any of your own tests using your own brainpower to analyze this circuit.  I even mentioned several possible tests to you in PM and there was the sound of one hand clapping in response.

And absolutely yes, an astute 12-year-old that is really interested in electronics could answer all of the aforementioned questions and explain all of the nuances.

Quote
Why is the spark bigger with the capacitor?

It captures the !otherwise wasted! energy from the primary's inductive kickback,and that energy is discharged through the !now low! resistance of the arc.


Brad

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #288 on: November 12, 2017, 02:32:59 PM »
Why is the spark bigger with the capacitor?

It captures the !otherwise wasted! energy from the primary's inductive kickback,and that energy is discharged through the !now low! resistance of the arc.

Brad

I would say that your response is in the the right direction but it's not how I would put it.  Let's Magluvin take the lead and give us his take on it and we will see if he is going to answer the questions that I posted.


 

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