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Author Topic: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....  (Read 13933 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2017, 06:05:07 AM »
I was going to save this in case there is a rebuttal to my reply to brad..  But I just cant contain it any longer  ;D ;D ;D ;D   See I do this stuff, like leaving out the balast resistor functions of basically cutting the battery voltage in half for the primary, not commenting on this what I present below of the part of brads post I didnt cover in my reply, so that when the discussion goes on, I have ultimate ammo for my later posts and destroy the target. Ive been doing that for years here and it works very well..   Its not unfair that I do so. Its smart.  If others like Mh and in this case brad, wants to do technical knowledge battle on this field, then I will use this strategy and their own words to beat them..  Truly i dont wish for these battles. But they do occur for many of us.. So take that as a piece of advice when you are arguing something you really know about and someone disputes it. If they do have it all wrong, you will win the battle with these 2 strategical technical battle methods every time. ;) ;)

Notice i didnt say anything to this in brads post....

"Ok,regarding the topic at hand.

The condenser serves many purposes,and here is one to think about.

We all know that if we remove the condenser ,we get very erratic engine running--back firing through the carby-and all sorts.
But how could the timing be that advanced that it would backfire through the carby?.."


This is the reason for the question that is in the end of brads post.....

"What roll dose the condenser play here in this one example?"

What he is trying to imply is that there would be a spark when the points close.  Again,  "What roll dose the condenser play here in this one example?

This has MH all over it to make up a fantasy reason for the cap to say it does something other than help give resonance to the system just like Mh did in his first post!!  Exactly the same motive!! MH splattered all over it. ;) Follow me hear....

The statement was  "We all know that if we remove the condenser ,we get very erratic engine running--back firing through the carby-and all sorts.
But how could the 'timing' be that advanced that it would backfire through the carby?.."

All to suggest that there would be a spark when the points close for the reasons brad described later in the post. He is saying specifically about the timing advance as if the spark did occur when the switch closed, it would be sparking way before the compression stroke completes.. Well then, how does the cap solve that issue if the cap is shorted by the closed points switch? ??? ??  That is what the questions answer is suppose to conclude, that the cap helps in some way to prevent this spark when the contacts close and the secondary 'supposedly' gives a spark!!!!.. ;) ;) ;)   Huge fail and MH has his twisting little finger prints all over it and still cant get it right trying to do so just like in his first post here that I approved for discussion.  And then I destroyed him. lol ;D

Those in the know of this circuit should agree 110%. 

Brad, the only way out of this mess is to admit that MH came up with the whole thing and you posted it as your own thoughts.  I know that you 'should' know better than this..   ;)   So here is your chance at an out here..  How do I know that MH came up with that twisted concoction?  Ive been here for 10 years and had a 'Lot' of experience dealing with him twisting things so badly that I just tear it up with his own words just like I did with your post and with his post.  It has his "the cap cannot oscillate with the primary no way no how" all over it just like his earlier description...By way of misdirection. By way of diversion tactics.... I would bet my membership here on this.. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

But brad, if your sticking to your post as is, then Ill be waiting for your reply to explain it some how some way to make it right without changing anything.  Been here for what few hours now, rereading and rereading it all including my reply to be absolutely positive on this..  I got it right and you simply do not know what your talking about period. And that is sad if it is so..

Mags
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 11:27:10 AM by Magluvin »

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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #61 on: October 28, 2017, 10:05:18 AM »
Ya know what people? I have in the past suggested MH is an anti free energy shill. He does not like it in the least and freaks out about it. Well this whole thing here is just one example of why I have had those thoughts....

Think.  Lets say some of you do agree that the cap and primary do oscillate to produce a longer and more powerful spark.  Why is it that MH will go to great lengths to dispute this fact? Why if in his supposed genius big description of how the circuit works, completely and utterly destroys any idea that there would be any AC currents happening in the circuits operation what so ever. In his description there was no inductive actions of the primary in series with the cap when the switch is open and the cap would only ever see max voltage of 12vdc only, equal to the battery voltage meanwhile insists there is NEVER any AC, and the cap is an AC cap that is rated above 100 volts at least and max ive seen is 600vac range Because he is not as good at this stuff like he says he is? Nah. He knows exactly what he is doing. Correct him on that and it doesnt even phase him. He will conjure up another diversion tactic explanation to be completely absent of any resonant oscillations between the cap and primary and also even try to invent other ways of the reason for the cap, and those reasons so far are so ridiculous he has brad saying the cap while across a just closed switch will stop the spark that happens when you close the switch!!! Its so terrible that brad I believe will either not come back here or he will have to own up to the fact that it was all MHs words of purposeful misinformation just so brad can save brads own reputation. Im very comfortable and confident that this will occur. Brad gets up about 4am and comes and reads this and we will see. I seriously dont think brad has any other choice. I dont think brad came up with that scheme. Or is he shilling also? Nah that post is all MHs format, all of what brad wrote. Dont understand why he did that. If MH has it his way, as brads post goes "The condenser serves many purposes,and here is one to think about" he will give any other possible reasons for the cap being in the circuit, even making stuff up that makes no sense at all, thinking none of us would be the wiser, to completely avoid any possibilities of resonance in the circuit..  Darn tootin it was Mhs words.. ;) ;) Brad is way smarter than that. But again why this? ???

If MH is is so good at this stuff, then why cant he see the possibilities of an LC oscillation after the switch opens? Why cant he see that the field that the primary produced in the first place with the switch closed and then when it opens can induce the primary just as good as it would the secondary and pump the hundreds of volts rated cap up to more than 12v at some point in the cycle of operation?? Why imply as in brads post that the cap somehow prevents a spark on the secondary, when we ALL should know this particular spark when the switch closes cannot happen and it does not happen and will only happen when the switch opens, and suggest that the spark is killed off by a cap that is shorted by the same closed switch at the time the supposed spark is suppose to happen as described in brads post? ??? ??? MH THINKS WE ARE ALL STUPID! WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WORK OUT THE ISSUE OF HIS BS DESCRIPTION! Diversion tactics. And if one doesnt work out and he is fully called on it, he comes up with an even stupider one. And then another one and another one.. Its all about keeping on the heat no matter if he is caught in the act, then just come up with a new attack again and again, etc ,etc It is all about destroying the idea of resonance because it does provide a gain as I claim. Every single time I have brought up resonance in the past he has interjected and fights it to a brutal end. He IS an anti free energy shill. I mean hey, if my claim that resonance can give us an appreciable gain is not correct, then he should be able to debunk my claim easily with real circuit descriptions without any flaws, if he is so smart. ;) If I am wrong then brad should be able to debunk my claim very easily also. brad has a scope, works with engines, Im sure he has a coil and proper condenser around. But brad was shilled into posting what he did. maybe the issue brad had with the rotary transformer put him into a position that this is what he does now. I would hope not. Idont know. I like brad. but this here went way overboard and I have to stand my ground. When I posted that he may post his idea of the workings of the circuit, I did say that i would like to see just that, I knew i could beat it because that is how much i know Im right here, and I did just that.   I hope that is not the case and he says he posted what MH was asking him to and didnt pay attn to what it was all about.  I really hope that is the case, because Brads post has just as many seriously bad flaws as MHs post does.

But no. MH cannot debunk my claim legitimately.Cant do it. He has to twist his so called analysis to a point of impossibilities and fantastical functions and operations to try and do so and fail again and again, it is never ending. Cant come up with 1 GOOD reason why my claim is bad. Cant make a clean actual working circuit that explains his end. There is always 1 or more serious problems. And when I bust him on it he makes up another one and still acts as he knows it all and i know nothing. Again, it has to be he is a shill.. Such great lengths to no end.  Gotta be a paycheck at the end of that string he is tied to. If not, then he is just a whack job to the extreme. lol

He at time says he is just here to help people understand electronics and that none of us know anything.  But he cant even admit there is an oscillation between the primary and the cap when the primary dumps its collapse currents into the cap. Simple stuff. He will use the diversion tactic to reduce the possibility to nill to instill this into the reader minds, as can clearly be seen in his first post on this thread, and run off the presenter of the idea with a constant barrage of posts that just overthrow the threads to being useless. Well Im not running away from it like he would wish. Read his first post on the second page.  Its completely devoid of any inductive actions other than the transformer action and that is it. LITERALLY anything to avoid an inkling of the cap being anything but a pathway for the battery alone to "pump" (his words) the primary through the .14uf cap and the cap only ever sees 12v max. Charge the cap to 200v and dump that across the primary. You will get a spark. 12v aint gunna cut it. Its just insane at this point. Respect his knowledge?? lol he knows exactly what he is trying to convince everyone here of. He knows.. If he keeps claiming he is so smart and nobody can even compare, then why would he get this all wrong over and over and over each time he tries? He isnt as smart as he says??  lol it is the other way around, He knows exactly what he is saying, and trying to rely on his statements that nobody here knows anything. Here is an example of that for pms the other day.....

This one is a reply to me...

"Yeah, you don't know shit.  You have been asked to explain the resonance mechanism and you can't do it.  You are unable to explain how a simple circuit with five lousy components works.  I think at this point that all of us would think because of the intensity of the debate that for sure you hooked your scope up to the primary of the coil to see what you would find.  You hooked it up and you tested it for sure.  You had to have done that, it simply doesn't make sense any other way.  And if you saw your holy grail of resonance you would have posted the clip right away and declared victory.  But you didn't see resonance and because you lie and you are unethical, you are doing the only thing you can do now in a vain and pathetic attempt to save face.  And that is to chicken out and lie again and put on airs that you can't be bothered and it's "obviously" a done deal.  It's pathetic and you have reduced yourself to the level of a hapless clown.

You literally cannot cope with saying that you did not find resonance.  You would have an internal mini nervous breakdown if you did - you are blocked.  So the little lying sleazy weasel kicks in because that's the only thing you can do to "escape."  You are pathetic, dude.  Your self-programming is a complete and utter disaster.

You want to prove me wrong that you are not some emotional cripple that doesn't have the guts to back up his claim that he stated over and over?

Then do the test like Carroll and myself are asking for, the simple test that you know you should do and is very easy to do - as per the way things work around here.  Show us how smart you are."



Well firstly at the end, I spoke to carrol on Mh contacting him to post his theory on my thread. Carrol said he had gotten that request but did not reply as he was busy and on the road. And said he will not post it for him. ;) So Mh lies.  Ill ask Carrol to verify that talk between me and him. or any of you can pm him for that answer for your selves. I dare ya. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Unethical??? Well lets see what carrol has to say about that.   ;) ;D

Man not showing the scope shot really has his panties in a bundle. As in, his undergarments all entangled in his crack.  The shots are coming. You probably think I dont know how to use my scope and didnt see it due to some issue or whatever and are counting on that idea so you perpetuate your stance until..... BOOM  your head pops off.  lol  Scared ya that I so far said it showed AC and higher voltages that 12v dc didnt it. lol  Sit on that a bit. Your world is going to change overnight.  ;)

But look how he tries to rip any possibility of resonance(oscillations between the cap and primary) to shreds.

Says in first line "Yeah, you don't know shit.  You have been asked to explain the resonance mechanism and you can't do it. "  Well i have been explaining it since before I opened the thread, which is before he says he AND carrol are asking.  lol carrol knows nothing of this.  ;) Any lengths to hurt my standing on this. Even using carrols name without his knowledge of such, and now he has used brad, and I have to be sure of it from all I have explained here so far.

Here is one to me in pm after the one above....

Well I just asked Carroll if he would post my explanation which will be written in proper technical English when discussing electronics, something that you clearly cannot do.  So when you say, "You cannot even come up with a reason why the circuit has more output with the cap than without," you are lying.  You know you are lying, and we all know that you are lying.  And you make the "condenser play" for something like the third or fourth time.  One more time, you are lying.  You are either a compulsive liar or a pathological liar."

Lol lies then calls me a liar.. thats rich isnt it? How many times here did he make YOU READ that I am a liar??  He is not just instilling the statement, He is installing it. The power of suggestion. Shill tactics 101. Get everyone to believe what you say by saying it again and again and again..... I read a lot of books on hypnosis in my early 20s. If anyone wants to know why, ask and I will post it. Its longer than I want to put here in this post. So ask and I will share that.



Then to me again...

"Now that I have asked Carroll to post my explanation in the thread you are either just balking and being irrational now that you know I am going to write it up, or you are alleging that I have found something online.  You are just lying some more.  And I think you are freaking out a bit because you have been stating all along that I have no analysis and I am bluffing.  You are probably dreading seeing me show you up for the bad and sad clown that you are.

I have been doing circuit analysis on this forum for YEARS and I have rock-solid integrity.  You're a fucking mental case."

He will stop at nothing and lie again and again.  After he reads this, lets see if he can get carrol to confirm any of his involvement as MH suggests.  It will not happen because carrol is not in this with him at all. I know. If any of you reading know him, send a message and ask him.. I will be vindicated and MH will be the liar here. bet on that 100%  lol its just too much ya know?

And then what he says of his years of circuit analysis here??? Well how many fantasy circuit descriptions does he have to come up with to debunk me before this years of circuit analysis becomes apparent to us the readers? ??? ??? ??? ??? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;) ;)   Like I said, I beat him with his own words successfully. A lot!   ;D He gives me all the ammo I need. Its almost too simple, but I have also been here for about 8  9hrs straight. Why? Because it is important that people here know about this. Im not saving my ass. Im helping yours. Didnt save my ass at all. This shop stool is killing me right now.  :( ;D



And here is another one to me after that.. Notice that I have not shown the scope shots yet? lol Remember the 2 strategies for fighting the technical knowledge battles I spoke of earlier?  Well that one is still in the ammo box.  ;) ;D Just waiting for the specific target to be in my sights. I dont care at this point if I say this here. Mh will just pawn it off after reading this as I dont have the shots that shows resonant oscillations, until I do show them.. Then things will change.  You will see this soon. ;)
Lol he even says that even if his analysis is wrong "it's going to make you look and feel like a little clueless peon."  Oh really?  If anyone agrees with that then you need to reread his fake news analysis and then my reply on the second page here very carefully and tell me what you see then.

"Now, are you going to share the fact (that I am almost certain of) that you found NO RESONANCE with your peers on the thread and you are up a creek without a paddle?  Your pregnant pause is about to break water.  Are you going to try to use your noggin by talking with your peers and figure out what your scope shots are really telling you?  Or are you just going to play the sassy dumb ass bitch with attitude like a clown?
And when my analysis does get posted, even if it's wrong, it's going to make you look and feel like a little clueless peon.

Hey Magsy wagsy, how does the resonance work to make the spark stronger?  Doh!  It's LC resonance!  That's the ticket and that's the explanation and I'm sticking too it.  10 bloody years of working on the bench and lusting over resonance and that's all you got?  The forum has people just above background noise, and after 10 YEARS you are about 2 dB above background noise.  Keep winding those coils."


It goes on and on. All to try and debunk a claim that resonance give us a gain. And he takes it all the way and claims that there is no resonance at all.. nuts But not nuts.  He is shilling to the max on this.  This is my solid opinion and Ive said it many times over the years..   

Finally, this I predict. When I do the scope vid and show, he will say Im doing it all wrong and make all these different ways to put the scope with added parts for the benefit of the best scope shot reading, meanwhile the extra parts config will  kill off the resonance by way of the funked up design of the so called correct way to use the scope here, that will not show the resonance OR say that what we see is nothing but artifacts and it proves nothing.  lol been there before. I know..  On sunday I will show that prediction come to life.  ;D   ooo this is gunna be fun
Ok im tired and beat, And MH is a shill.  lol Tried to edit this as well as possible. Been here since 8pm doing all these posts looking over it all multiple times and it is now 402 am.  So there may still be some errors.

mags


Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #62 on: October 28, 2017, 10:19:42 AM »
And Brad, if you delete any of these posts before WE discuss it with Stefan in order to let him be the judge if need be, I will show stefan my page saves as full evidence that this crap is going on.
I promise you that.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2017, 12:08:36 PM »
Just went over it all again. 

Why am I posting all this? Why am I hammering at it? Because my claim of gain by resonance is real. I am defending it to the hilt. Not one explanation by these to supposed professionals can get it right in their own claims of knowing how the circuit actually works as can be seen too clearly, to be a judge of whether resonance has anything to do with anything here. They havnt shown a workable circuit function theory yet.. But damned to be that the real actual circuit could do anything better because of the cap and resonance, it just has to be another explanation. :-\ ;) At this point they know they cannot change the circuit as thee circuit is well known as to how it is put together. The only thing they can do now is make up some concocted alternative unworkable actions and functions to try and debunk my claim.  Well it is all coming to a head here.  I want to see what comes of all this today before I show anything more with my setup.    Its sunday ammo. ;D   

I said before here that I have a dpdt relay with one half of the contacts rigged for buzz mode and the other set of contacts for points switches. Works nice.

Mags

Mags


Offline norman6538

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #64 on: October 28, 2017, 04:40:52 PM »
Brad thanks for filling in the numbers to what I described. That makes it very clear....
The Tesla circuit it truly multifunctional and STILL VERY USEFULL  today in our internal
combustion engines.

Its too bad we have to have all this other distraction discussion.

Norman

Brad said

The condenser serves many purposes,and here is one to think about.

We all know that if we remove the condenser ,we get very erratic engine running--back firing through the carby-and all sorts.
But how could the timing be that advanced that it would backfire through the carby?..

First thing to do,would to be to look at the ignition coil,which is just a transformer--what is it's rated output voltage?
Most are between 30,000-40,000 volt's
So,the average supply voltage(battery voltage) when an engine is running,is around 14.4 volts.
Lets say our coil is one of the 30,000 volt one's.
The average turn ratio in an ignition coil is around 100:1

So in a transformer sense,100 x 14.4 would give us a voltage of 1440v at the secondary when the points close.-->Remember,we are talking about normal transformer voltage produced here,and not flyback voltage produced across the secondary--which is where the 30,000 volts comes from.

Most plug gaps are between 1 and 1.2mm
It takes 1000v per mm to form an arc within the environment of the engine cylinder  (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #64 on: October 28, 2017, 04:40:52 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #65 on: October 28, 2017, 07:15:33 PM »
Magluvin,

You are going a bit nuts, don't you think?  For starters, I had nothing to do with Brad's question.  I asked Carroll in PM if he would post my analysis.  I wasn't going to send it to him without a response from him first.

On more time, your behaviour in posting private PMs in public without asking for my permission was and is unethical.  I called you out on doing it the previous time in the first posting of the thread in a PM a few days ago, and here you are doing it again.

Going back to Brad's questions, I actually posted about the capacitor and ignition timing before Brad even posted his questions.

Here is the quote from post #47, <<< What I learned was the size of the capacitor will affect the ignition timing because the cap accepts the initial inrush of current when the points open and then reaches a voltage point where the current flow stops/the plasma ignites so obviously a larger capacitor will delay the onset of the ignition spark. >>>

So in response to Brad's queries, when you remove the capacitor then the spark plugs fire immediately when the points open and with the capacitor in place the spark plugs fire a few milliseconds after the points open.  So that's why you get the erratic engine running and the backfiring through the carburetor.  And if you replace a bad condenser with a new one that is twice the size in microfarads, that will delay the spark firing even further and mess up the timing of the engine.  I am not an engine person but I will assume that you don't get a plasma spark when the points close in a car engine because the spark has to jump two gaps to ignite the plasma, the spark plug itself and the distributor.  So that's something like 30,000 volts.

As far as your wild rant about the resonance issue goes, well here goes:  I wrote up my analysis completely "cold" without having read anything.  I thought that the secondary was so strong in its HV potential that it ignited the spark plasma right away, even before the capacitor charged up.  If this was the case then the points wold be safe. Then I found out that I was completely wrong.  In hindsight, it was even dumb because I failed to think about the fact that the capacitor was a legitimate path for the coil to keep the current flowing.  So I went online to check into the resonance issue and at the same time I was learning more about the ignition process and the ignition timing.  So what I learned was when the points open, you don't get the ignition spark right away because current flows into the capacitor at first and this delays the onset of the plasma ignition.  Duh!  By the time the primary hits about 300 volts, the secondary is at about 30,000 volts and that is enough voltage to bridge two spark gaps and ignite two instances of plasma.  In your test setup, something similar would happen but with the single spark gap.  I did all of my research and shared my results in postings and learned stuff in the process.  And at this point I think I could even do a preliminary timing diagram for your test setup - but you never ever do timing diagrams, do you?

When inductors discharge into resistive loads, they don't resonate.  The plasma is a non-linear resistor, therefore there is no resonance.  And I know that when an inductor discharges into a plasma, essentially all of the energy stored in the inductor is drained away in one shot.  And that is fundamentally what the ignition of a spark plug is, and that's why I said there was no resonance.

And you and Carroll both basically said, "there is an LC and that's what LCs do, they resonate."  So you and Carroll were also dead wrong.  You thought that there was a big LC ring-down from the get-go making the plasma spark.  It's not the case, what happens from what I can see from my current perspective is that while the secondary is doing the continuous DC plasma burn, the primary stays at high  potential and then when the main burn is over the energy in the cap does an innocuous ring-down to dissipate the remaining energy in the cap with no plasma generation.  There is your "resonance" that you didn't have a clue about (just like me) and now you are trying to hitch a ride on that but in reality it has nothing to do with your original one-liner "explanation" for how the circuit operates.

I posted in good faith and I learned some stuff during my research.  There are some very relevant questions posted at the end of my technical postings that would shed a lot of light into things if you followed through on them.  There are some very simple tests that I suggested the possibility of that could answer some very basic questions.  But I did not say what the simple tests would be, I want to see if you can come up with your own tests to follow through.  In other words, no "paint by numbers" experimenting - come up with some tests yourself.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #66 on: October 28, 2017, 07:36:31 PM »
Oh yeah, and as far as me being an "anti-resonance shill" goes or "someone is paying me" goes, that has nothing to do with me and says a lot about you.  It feels like we are on our way towards another "fail" doesn't it?  You yourself brought up the question about the ignition circuit and the capacitor to me, and as of yet we have no data from you, just some "show and don't tell" observational clips.  You claim that you are going to show some real data on Sunday, and all that I can say is bring it on.  After all, it would be a miracle if an experiment could be performed and come to a successful conclusion with everybody understanding what is taking place and everybody being on the same page.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #66 on: October 28, 2017, 07:36:31 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #67 on: October 28, 2017, 09:06:54 PM »
Brad thanks for filling in the numbers to what I described. That makes it very clear....
The Tesla circuit it truly multifunctional and STILL VERY USEFULL  today in our internal
combustion engines.

Its too bad we have to have all this other distraction discussion.

Norman

Brad said

The condenser serves many purposes,and here is one to think about.

We all know that if we remove the condenser ,we get very erratic engine running--back firing through the carby-and all sorts.
But how could the timing be that advanced that it would backfire through the carby?..

First thing to do,would to be to look at the ignition coil,which is just a transformer--what is it's rated output voltage?
Most are between 30,000-40,000 volt's
So,the average supply voltage(battery voltage) when an engine is running,is around 14.4 volts.
Lets say our coil is one of the 30,000 volt one's.
The average turn ratio in an ignition coil is around 100:1

So in a transformer sense,100 x 14.4 would give us a voltage of 1440v at the secondary when the points close.-->Remember,we are talking about normal transformer voltage produced here,and not flyback voltage produced across the secondary--which is where the 30,000 volts comes from.

Most plug gaps are between 1 and 1.2mm
It takes 1000v per mm to form an arc within the environment of the engine cylinder  (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Ok norman. He describes in detail that there can be a spark when the points connect. This is not when the spark happens.  Try it. Cap or no cap, 14.4v, 12vin or even 7vin. You will never get a spark at the plug when the contacts close like brad described. Cannot happen. So if there were this spark when the switch closes, the cap would not do anything in the circuit to stop that spark brad is talking about, because the switch is shorting the cap when the switch is closed.  So it is not correct. Not at all. Just try and find the info brad presented on the net.  You will not find that explanation anywhere. Because it does not occur ever when the contacts close. Never.

Brads post was all a fabrication of imagination, and I dont believe it was his fabrication, I believe MH gave him the explanation to post. Brad is too sharp for that I believe. I dont know why brad even posted it, whether it was his own words or MHs. Just dont know why.

And if the ballast resistor is in series with the primary, there would only be 6-7v across the primary when the switch closes not 14.4v.  So in his 100:1 transformer, the transformer action would only provide 699-700v at the secondary, not 1440v like he said.   Its all wrong bud, from beginning to end all wrong. 

I was running the coil in my 2 vids with a 12v battery direct without a ballast resistor and there was no sparks when the switch closes, let alone a very weak spark that the gap i had for showing the spark had to be within only a mm  to happen when the switch opens without the cap installed. And that only happens when the contacts open and there is a very quick field collapse after the contacts open, and never happens when we just first close the contact for the primary field to first build. Never happens, not even at 14.4v input while the car is running, and surely not at 12.8v battery when trying to start, and it wouldt even be 12.8v during the engine start period, because the starter motor pulls that 12.8v down even further while cranking.  His story is absolutely not true.  You can count on that Norman. ;)

I did a lot of thinking and writing here last night.  All of it, making sure it was all as accurate as my tired eyes could see. Almost 11hrs straight. Why?  Well being brads explanation was just as bad as MHs explanation, it all needed to be said for the record. Im simply astonished that brad would post such a thing.  Look it over.  Brads is all wrong for the explanation of the cap function. MHs explanation for the cap is all wrong. I felt like Al Pacino.  Your out of order! And your out of order! Your all out of order!! lol And Im right to say so. ;)

I dare anyone else to step up to the plate and defend either NHs or brads explanations. I will beat that challenge up and down these pages again and again, with just words alone. ;)

Mags


Offline norman6538

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #68 on: October 28, 2017, 10:24:24 PM »
Brad said a few messages back.

So in a transformer sense,100 x 14.4 would give us a voltage of 1440v at the secondary when the points close.--

And I missed that. I was enamered by the numbers that he plugged in and overlooked the CLOSE word.

I think Mags is partly right and partly wrong. A rising voltage could cause induction and 100 x 14.4 when the
magnetic field builds up and 1440 may jump the gap but the most spark will come  when the points
open and the backemf has more than 14.4 to put into the cap and then the secondary more than 1440 each time
after when it recycles back and forth till the voltage drops and the spark cannot jump the gap anymore.

We'll get this wikipedia thing right soon.

Norman

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #69 on: October 28, 2017, 11:26:36 PM »
Brad said a few messages back.

So in a transformer sense,100 x 14.4 would give us a voltage of 1440v at the secondary when the points close.--

And I missed that. I was enamered by the numbers that he plugged in and overlooked the CLOSE word.

I think Mags is partly right and partly wrong. A rising voltage could cause induction and 100 x 14.4 when the
magnetic field builds up and 1440 may jump the gap but the most spark will come  when the points
open and the backemf has more than 14.4 to put into the cap and then the secondary more than 1440 each time
after when it recycles back and forth till the voltage drops and the spark cannot jump the gap anymore.

We'll get this wikipedia thing right soon.

Norman

Im not gettig where you think Im part wrong. I do not agree with anything of brads explanation except the 100:1 ratios, and some are different. But that 100:1 will work here


Wikipedia is not a source that I trust on all things

If resonance gives a gain as i claim, then why are these 2 guys coming up with circuits to dispute that resonance even exists, and the circuits they use to do so are so flawed that they wont work as they say it does, and I have proved that for both to the T.  So why cant they explain why the resonance doesnt exist with an actual circuit explanation that ACTUALLY WORKS????? Think man!   Mh will use anything and everything to instill into the readers minds that resonance does not even exist in the circuit let alone that there is a gain to be had.  Why?  Because this is his job. He is the disinformation man. OU does not exist.  And he is trying to discredit my claim with everything in the book to try and ensure that the readers do not take what i say seriously.  He is the Monsanto of free energy. Monsanto is trying to rid the world of organic God made foods and say their gmo is better, when it its not. It has major porblems. If you dont know what Im talking about then i suggest you dig into the subject for the safety of you and yours. Mh is the same for any claims of free energy and the components there of that could get us free energy, like resonance and the gains I claim it gives for one..

Mags

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #69 on: October 28, 2017, 11:26:36 PM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2017, 11:52:25 PM »
Ok, I give up. We are down to semantics, nitpicking and dotting the i's....

With my understanding and some posts that add to my understanding I have a more
complete and satisfactory understanding - so don't confuse me with either the facts or
the truth.

Not really. I will listen but a little more lightly on this subject.

Norman

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #71 on: October 29, 2017, 12:02:16 AM »
Ok, I give up. We are down to semantics, nitpicking and dotting the i's....

With my understanding and some posts that add to my understanding I have a more
complete and satisfactory understanding - so don't confuse me with either the facts or
the truth.

Not really. I will listen but a little more lightly on this subject.

Norman

lol ok norman  I wont explain anything to you directly again.

So Id prefer if you just read rather than post. Its not helping anything especially if you dont understand the foundations of how the circuit works.

So like you said, just listen, how ever lightly you wish. I wont notice either way

Mags


Offline tinman

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #72 on: October 29, 2017, 01:22:02 AM »
 author=Magluvin link=topic=17482.msg512317#msg512317 date=1509155591]



Quote
Well I suppose that it was just coincidence that you happened by to approve MHS posts(2 out of 3 of them at first, then a bit later approving the 3rd one, that happened to be in between the first approved initially). That has me thinking he asked you to do so. And then said"hey you forgot one!! ::) ::) Like super man you appear, after what you say "I hardly ever get on the forums anymore anyway."  Just sayin.... ::)
Do as you wish. It is your responsibility here now. Im out on the moderation thing in this whole topic. Its all yours. Do as you will... Or is it Mhs will...

Not sure if your having a bad day,or have had to much whacky weed Mag's,but i have not approved or removed any ones posts in this thread--i have done nothing but read,and make the comments i made--thats it.

Quote
First thing I see, Is you come here as some authority on this, claiming that you havnt seen anyone fully describe the circuit yet. Well then if you are really 'in the know' about these ignition systems as they really should be, then 'you should know' that there is suppose to be a ballast resistor in series with the primary which would bring the actual coil voltage down to 6-7v, not this 14.4v as you clearly state here.  So you dont know what your talking about either. ;) Otherwise you would clearly know that the voltage across the coil could never be 14.4v as you stated it should be. And then you do some 100:1 calculations and so on.   ::) The only thing you got right there was the 100 to 1 ratio. Thats not hard to find in a quick search....

First up--!some! ignition systems use a ballast resistor--every seen one on a motorcycle that has points ignition?. Most high performance points ignition systems have no ballast resistor,nor do a lot of coils require a ballast resistor.

Second--a resistor reduces current flow-not voltage.
The voltage will appear across the coil,regardless of the resistor or not.
The ballast resistor is to reduce the time constant(the rate at which current rises in the coil)--the larger the series resistance,the shorter the time constant.
This allows your ignition coil to operate at a higher frequency--higher RPM.

Quote
So what kind of alternators do you guys have down under that 14.4v is an average supply voltage?  Most that I see are 14v and under, closer to 13.5v. Have not seen any that do above 15v(unless it is a special after market unit that gives that), what you would say here, above average voltage. ::) ::) Anyway, I just wonder. Maybe they are that way there.. ill look it up 'to see for myself'. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzz7P3qNHcE

Quote
Now you say that when the switch closes and we are now putting 14.4 fantasy volts across the primary, and that the normal transformer would produce the also fantasy 1440v at the secondary output, AND then your "Most plug gaps are between 1 and 1.2mm", AND your "It takes 1000v per mm to form an arc", Then why does the spark not occur when the points close and only appear when the points open? ??? ??? ??? ?? Clearly you are stating that the gap in the spark plug is the proper distance of 1-1.2mm and that 1000v can jump 1mm and the sec develops 1440v that should be able to jump that gap of 1mm and even 1.2mm!!!  Did you read that?? Read it again!


I think you missed the whole question Mags,which was--why do you think the engine runs rough and back fires when there is no condenser ?
I basically answered this for you,and you missed it.

Quote
So ok. we will go with your professional opinion that the voltage across the primary is fantasy land 14.4v. If your still ok with that.. ??? ;)


I am.
https://itstillruns.com/output-voltage-gm-alternators-7754415.html

Quote
lol  You do not know what you claim to know brad. Simple as that you do not know.  ;) ;) It is just MH bullshit from start to finish... Do you still stand buy all that you have said here? ??? ??

I do  :D

Quote
So dont ever come into MY thread and tell me how it is, acting as if I dont know, unless you really know what your talking about. Because I will tear it up with your own words just like I did with MH.

Well Mag's--you are having a bad day.

Seems like one of us know the operating voltage of a vehicles electrical system.

Quote
From what I just exposed of your supposed authoritative knowledge on this subject

What part did you expose exactly ?.

Quote
Your description is full of holes and far from complete as to ask that last question and and expect an answer based on the rest of your description. More MH handywork. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

As i said,i basically answered the question for you.
What ever happened to people using there own smarts ?.

Quote
Ever since you had the problems that occurred for you because of your presenting info on you rotary transformer, you appear to be someone else now. You are not the same guy I once respected here before all that. I dont know exactly what happened then, but I do know some. But what ever it was and however hard it hit you, you are a different guy now.  Since then I have seen you do this same thing you have done here in your post. You barge in and slap down some stuff that just aint right at all and say its conclusive, move along folks, nothing more to see here. And I truly believe your conversations here on this would end on that note if I hadnt put you in your place just now..

Sorry brad, but it is what it is..

But you did not put me in my place Mag's,as all that i quoted was correct,from the purpose of the ballast resistor,and the average operating voltage of a vehicles electrical system.

As far as the RT go's--that is best left dead and buried.


Brad

Offline tinman

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #73 on: October 29, 2017, 01:24:44 AM »
I see your post waiting for approval MH. You will have to wait for your side kick brad to approve your posts from now on.  Im not really interested in your bullshit side winder talk any longer. So sit and wait for your buddy to come to your beck and call.   Im done here with you.  Clearly a waste of time putting this thread up for your twisting of reality as you have shown in your description of this circuit..

Mags

What you can do Mags,is stop accusing me of doing shit i have not done.


Brad


Offline tinman

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2017, 01:26:59 AM »
One thing i am going to do here in MY thread daily, starting tomorrow, is post the links to MHs and brads descriptions and the links to my replys after the fact. Just so they dont get lost in the mess you are using to cover those up as people forget soon enough. Right M?? 8) Well Im going to keep reminding the readers, every day... And if Brad moderates ME because of it? I will have a nice discussion on this with Stefan and get brad off of moderation here. With all the facts of what is going on, Im sure I can make that happen.  ;)

I have made screen shots of the posts and page saves that i talk about above. So if brad does a hilary clinton and 'wipes' the thread of all that, I still have the proof that it existed.. I take that idea from Tk. He does that also, and some others.

Mags

Wow Mag's,this is like being in the twilight zone--WTF

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2017, 01:26:59 AM »

 

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