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Author Topic: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....  (Read 14373 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #225 on: November 07, 2017, 01:16:06 AM »



it is what it is....


you want me to leave.....don't give me anything to reply to.....

Or we could just remove your comments  :P

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline tinman

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #226 on: November 07, 2017, 01:18:13 AM »
Yeah yeah.  Sorry to poop your party.  The best that people get from you is insults for not understanding what you put out here. Someone tries to interpret what you say and they get WTFs in return, as if you believe what your telling is just so simple. Well its not. Hasnt been for a long time from what i get through the latest grape vine.
 :P

How long have you been at this now? Tito says he figured it out from things to posted, yet you deny that he has..  So just from that, I 'interpret' that you know he could not have gotten anything from you that would have any benefit, because you know that nobody could have.

 :P

Mags

And one by one,they start to see the light  ;)


Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #227 on: November 07, 2017, 01:37:35 AM »



it is what it is....


you want me to leave.....don't give me anything to reply to.....

I know.  It is what it is for a long time now..


Trouble is that your replies just end up in distraction rather than actual helpful information, at least on our end of it. Like Jeg saying he has the complete picture now. You and I both know that cannot be true.

Like this from you...

""Inductance is the characteristic of an electrical circuit that makes itself evident by opposing the starting, stopping, or changing of current flow."


Three instances when EMF is induced....  How often does the current start, stop or change in either of the circuits?!?!  What are you doing during these key instances?!  How are you positioned to capitalize on opposition to change, how was Tesla?  How can you expect to understand what is being suggested by the use of the terms "flux capacitor" if your attention isn't focused on the flux!?  Which flux!?  Capacitor?  What capacitor?"

When we had a conversation a while back, you brought up Bedini coils, which are Bifi, some trifi, etc, So I may need to assume that you are using a bifi in your version of the ozone circuit. 

So when you say above, 'What capacitor?"  I have to assume that either the 1 cap that we know about in the ozone circuit has nothing to do with what your trying to describe, OR, that there is another capacitor in the circuit.

Then you say....

"There is no if....  ozone can be produced by the motor windings.  Your ideas regarding bifilar are borrowed, and in case you aren't aware, I have no interest in parasitic capacitance...  your present line of thinking will not help you accomplish what I am suggesting is possible."   

Well we only know that you are saying that ozone is produced in the motor windings, we have no proof that it is true.

And if you are saying that you have no interest in the parasitic capacitance, that would suggest to me that you are still using a bifi coil but not for its capacitance.

So the only other option for the use of the bifi would be to use one of the bifi windings as a control coil in the bifi windings, control as if when we short one winding, it acts like a shorted secondary which would bring the very high inductance value of the coil very low so that it no longer has the cemf effects when the other winding is shorted.

But then again, I can only assume that what I just said may only result in a WTF moment from you.    Lets see....

Mags

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #228 on: November 07, 2017, 01:51:46 AM »
Since the natives are restless, I will do something positive to rally the troops:

The Tesla Ozone Patent in modern technical English:

To whom it may concern:

There is a DC electric motor C that blows air down an enclosed trough.  Opposite sides of the trough have plates P that have an alternating high voltage between them that produces the ozone.

The current for the DC electric motor is routed through a cylindrical commutator E that is on the shaft of the motor.  The commutator and associated brushes form the controller H.  The controller will periodically interrupt the current that flows through the motor coils.  When the current to the motor is interrupted by the controller it is directed into an LC resonator formed by coil M and high-voltage capacitor L.  Coil M also forms the primary of a transformer, the secondary of the transformer is coil N.

When the controller interrupts the current to the motor, the motor coils discharge their current through the coil N of the LC resonator and charge up capacitor L to a high voltage.  A short time later the controller disconnects motor's coils leaving the capacitor charged.  A short time after that the controller connects the capacitor to the coil M and there is an LC resonant ring down.  Coil M couples to the secondary coil N which amplifies the AC voltage across coil M.  The ends of coil N connect to the plates P resulting in a very high voltage alternating potential across the plates.  This very high voltage across the plates P produces ozone as the air starts to conduct current.  This will drain energy out of the LC resonator.  A fan is connected to the motor to blow air through the enclosed trough.


Offline tinman

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #229 on: November 07, 2017, 02:19:21 AM »
Since the natives are restless, I will do something positive to rally the troops:

The Tesla Ozone Patent in modern technical English:

To whom it may concern:

There is a DC electric motor C that blows air down an enclosed trough.  Opposite sides of the trough have plates P that have an alternating high voltage between them that produces the ozone.

The current for the DC electric motor is routed through a cylindrical commutator E that is on the shaft of the motor.  The commutator and associated brushes form the controller H.  The controller will periodically interrupt the current that flows through the motor coils.  When the current to the motor is interrupted by the controller it is directed into an LC resonator formed by coil M and high-voltage capacitor L.  Coil M also forms the primary of a transformer, the secondary of the transformer is coil N.

When the controller interrupts the current to the motor, the motor coils discharge their current through the coil N of the LC resonator and charge up capacitor L to a high voltage.  A short time later the controller disconnects motor's coils leaving the capacitor charged.  A short time after that the controller connects the capacitor to the coil M and there is an LC resonant ring down.  Coil M couples to the secondary coil N which amplifies the AC voltage across coil M.  The ends of coil N connect to the plates P resulting in a very high voltage alternating potential across the plates.  This very high voltage across the plates P produces ozone as the air starts to conduct current.  This will drain energy out of the LC resonator.  A fan is connected to the motor to blow air through the enclosed trough.

Spot on MH.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #229 on: November 07, 2017, 02:19:21 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #230 on: November 07, 2017, 02:20:40 AM »
Since the natives are restless, I will do something positive to rally the troops:

The Tesla Ozone Patent in modern technical English:

To whom it may concern:

There is a DC electric motor C that blows air down an enclosed trough.  Opposite sides of the trough have plates P that have an alternating high voltage between them that produces the ozone.

The current for the DC electric motor is routed through a cylindrical commutator E that is on the shaft of the motor.  The commutator and associated brushes form the controller H.  The controller will periodically interrupt the current that flows through the motor coils.  When the current to the motor is interrupted by the controller it is directed into an LC resonator formed by coil M and high-voltage capacitor L.  Coil M also forms the primary of a transformer, the secondary of the transformer is coil N.

When the controller interrupts the current to the motor, the motor coils discharge their current through the coil N of the LC resonator and charge up capacitor L to a high voltage.  A short time later the controller disconnects motor's coils leaving the capacitor charged.  A short time after that the controller connects the capacitor to the coil M and there is an LC resonant ring down.  Coil M couples to the secondary coil N which amplifies the AC voltage across coil M.  The ends of coil N connect to the plates P resulting in a very high voltage alternating potential across the plates.  This very high voltage across the plates P produces ozone as the air starts to conduct current.  This will drain energy out of the LC resonator.  A fan is connected to the motor to blow air through the enclosed trough.


"When the controller interrupts the current to the motor, the motor coils discharge their current through the coil N of the LC resonator and charge up capacitor L to a high voltage.  A short time later the controller disconnects motor's coils leaving the capacitor charged.  A short time after that the controller connects the capacitor to the coil M and there is an LC resonant ring down."

That part is not correct.

There is no short times of disconnection of the motor to the input, etc.  When the switch is closed the input powers the motor directly, and when the switch opens, the motor windings are still connected to the input only it now has the cap and primary in series loop with the motor and the input during the cap charge time. Then the same switch closes and the input is again direct to the motor windings AND the same switch connects the cap across the primary, repeat.

You should go over the patent better to understand where you are not correct here.

Mags

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #231 on: November 07, 2017, 05:26:32 AM »
You could very well be be right but I gave a bare-bones description and didn't really discuss the motor connections through the whole cycle and I focused on the ozone generation.

Since the circuit is so simple and the principles of operation are so simple if somebody really wanted to they could draw up a proper schematic and add to my text description to make it more complete.  Since it is not easy to describe how the commutator/controller works on the schematic, the full description of the circuit could be fleshed out with a timing diagram that describes the operation of the circuit through a full 360 degree rotation at the operating RPM.

Here is what could be put on the timing diagram:

1.  The motor brush contact ON/OFF switching function
2.  The current draw from the DC source  (this is also the instantaneous power consumption)
3.  The torque pulses produced by the motor
4.  The voltage across the LC resonator
5.  The current through the LC resonator
6.  The instantaneous energy level in the LC resonator
7.  The voltage across the secondary
8.  The current through the secondary (current flow yields ozone production)
9.  The instantaneous power output from the secondary (which produces ozone)
10.  The commutator/controller ON/OFF switching function (annotated with arrows to other traces showing how a switching event initiates or ends an event on another channel)
11.  A possible second (?) commutator ON/OF switching function if required

And for the hard-core people focused on ENERGY:

12.  The accumulated energy drawn by the circuit through one full rotation (i.e.; the integral of the instantaneous power consumption)
13.  The accumulated energy dissipated by the circuit through one full rotation (l.e.; the integral of the instantaneous power dissipation at all points in the circuit and the power output )

If somebody did that then the Tesla ozone patent would be completely explained and there would be no ambiguity about how it works and there would be no more misconceptions and myths associated with it.  Do that and then all of the business about "Tesla hiding something in the patent" will end.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #231 on: November 07, 2017, 05:26:32 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #232 on: November 07, 2017, 06:29:39 AM »
Ok. Im not going to try and say whats wrong and whats right about your post.  But in No. 1, the brushes overlap for the motor operation. Unless you think there are some spikes there that affect the operations of the circuit as a whole, the motor should be on its own in that respect. Dont ya think? Tesla only speaks of the (E) motor commutator 1 time to show current paths in the circuit....


" That is to say, the coils of the field and armature may be in series or derivation or wholly independent, and either or both are connected up in the circuit. In the present instance one terminal, as B, is connected to one of the binding posts, from which the circuit is led through one field-coil, D, the brushes and commutator E, the other field-coil, F, and thence to a brush G, which rests upon a circuit-controller H, consisting in general of a conducting disk or cylinder with insulating sections in its periphery."

When I was messing with the igniter circuit, I have it down to where when the switch opens, you can see the cap voltage rise and the same rise across the large inductor. There may be some phase difference due to the primary in the loop, but basically I can close the switch in time with the cap peak and discharge. Now what else I have seen is, if I stretch out the switch open time, I can see the cap voltage rise to peak and then fall, sending current back through the large inductance, also back through the battery and then the cap voltage peaks again in the negative and then the switch closes and I get a very good spark then also. 

So if the current through the large inductor is max .28a, and we dont close the switch till the cap does this almost full reversal with the large inductor, then we have sent some back to the battery already before we dump the cap into the primary. Will have to be set up for these input power measurements to see what we actually used there and compare.  But the savings due to the large inductor igniter circuit is huge compared to the standard conventional circuit, and here we may have saved even more in the igniter circuit by allowing the cap and large inductor oscillate just 3/4  of a cycle instead of just 1/4 cycle before cap discharge into the primary and have sent back some to the battery during operation cycles.

So far that is the best I can say about this circuit thus far. I hope there is more. But we will have to figure that out for ourselves here.

Mags

Offline Erfinder

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #233 on: November 07, 2017, 07:50:54 AM »
Or we could just remove your comments  :P




Curious what your excuse would be..... :-*

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #234 on: November 07, 2017, 08:15:20 AM »



Curious what your excuse would be..... :-*

Was a little out of it earlier and was just a bit off in my replies. Your posts wont be deleted.

Off and on, when work is not in the way I try to delve back into all this stuff.  Got a lot of hours in it all again and i just hope for good things and I end up in threads where I spend a lot of the free time arguing, and balh blah..   

So I would appreciate your help here. But its hard to gain a focus on the whole of what your describing. More like what we get from it is still off in the distance to figure it out.  I mean we have talked about a lot here and apparently your circuit is somewhat different.

Anyway, didnt really mean what I said earlier.  Im getting busy here with work again. Put the setup on the shelf for now. Spent yesterday with it observing timing like I said earlier. Whether it is anything good or not, I have a better feel for some things that are going on.

Watching Shallow Hall.   Great movie.  Hadnt seen it in a long time.  Putting me in a better mood.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #234 on: November 07, 2017, 08:15:20 AM »
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Offline Erfinder

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #235 on: November 07, 2017, 08:32:35 AM »
I know.  It is what it is for a long time now..


I don't see the problem...  you are an intelligent capable individual....  I only ask folk to consider what I say, not buy stock.  I offer an alternative to the commonly accepted.  I cannot make you understand, and no I will not provide step by step instruction to get you where I am.  Effort on your part is required, if you aren't interested, say so, I wont loose any sleep, but you have to ask yourself, are you missing out on an opprotunity....(note the lack of question mark...)

Trouble is that your replies just end up in distraction rather than actual helpful information, at least on our end of it. Like Jeg saying he has the complete picture now. You and I both know that cannot be true.


Helpful information....  what do you consider helpful information.....(not a question, but I am interested in what you will have to say)  Jeg sees what he sees, what he sees or does not see should be of no concern to you.  What do you see, you'll probably say you see jack shit....  I am cool with this, thing is, what motivates him to see what he considers as the whole picture, and you nothing?  I am correct on many fronts...some of those whom you whisper with know this...  like you, they read many of my posts and are overcome with that feeling one gets when the statements make no sense.... but they know or at the very least, feel I am right...I doubt they will ever admit this.  The problem many have with me is that I don't give you enough information to replicate......  why should I.....

Like this from you...

""Inductance is the characteristic of an electrical circuit that makes itself evident by opposing the starting, stopping, or changing of current flow."


quote is straight from the textbook..... you knew that right.....


Three instances when EMF is induced....  How often does the current start, stop or change in either of the circuits?!?!  What are you doing during these key instances?!  How are you positioned to capitalize on opposition to change, how was Tesla?  How can you expect to understand what is being suggested by the use of the terms "flux capacitor" if your attention isn't focused on the flux!?  Which flux!?  Capacitor?  What capacitor?"


When we had a conversation a while back, you brought up Bedini coils, which are Bifi, some trifi, etc, So I may need to assume that you are using a bifi in your version of the ozone circuit. 

So when you say above, 'What capacitor?"  I have to assume that either the 1 cap that we know about in the ozone circuit has nothing to do with what your trying to describe, OR, that there is another capacitor in the circuit.


Then you say....

"There is no if....  ozone can be produced by the motor windings.  Your ideas regarding bifilar are borrowed, and in case you aren't aware, I have no interest in parasitic capacitance...  your present line of thinking will not help you accomplish what I am suggesting is possible."   

Well we only know that you are saying that ozone is produced in the motor windings, we have no proof that it is true.

And if you are saying that you have no interest in the parasitic capacitance, that would suggest to me that you are still using a bifi coil but not for its capacitance.

So the only other option for the use of the bifi would be to use one of the bifi windings as a control coil in the bifi windings, control as if when we short one winding, it acts like a shorted secondary which would bring the very high inductance value of the coil very low so that it no longer has the cemf effects when the other winding is shorted.

But then again, I can only assume that what I just said may only result in a WTF moment from you.    Lets see....

Mags


I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you....  I need you to get out of that box, which even as we speak is closing on this thread.....once again.... think..... formulate a question based on your understanding of the "rubbish" I have presented, then ask your question.  I have given you so much "info", maybe too much info...  it's unfortunate that you cannot appreciate it.   


You got questions..ask, but make sure they're yours and not someone else's..I can tell the difference...

Offline Erfinder

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #236 on: November 07, 2017, 08:54:50 AM »
Was a little out of it earlier and was just a bit off in my replies. Your posts wont be deleted.


No harm no foul Mags.....  I have no problem with my posts being deleted....would be a sign of the times.... 

Off and on, when work is not in the way I try to delve back into all this stuff.  Got a lot of hours in it all again and i just hope for good things and I end up in threads where I spend a lot of the free time arguing, and balh blah.. 


You got a lot of hours in....  I have years in (not that it matters....just saying), hoping for good things, and end up in threads where I am told that I am not providing any helpful information....  such is life....

So I would appreciate your help here. But its hard to gain a focus on the whole of what your describing. More like what we get from it is still off in the distance to figure it out.  I mean we have talked about a lot here and apparently your circuit is somewhat different.


instead of trying to compare what "could" be on my bench and how it compares to what you have taken from the "patents", wouldn't it make more sense to focus on the patents and the statements I have made regarding them?  The way I see it you have two options, argueing with folk who want you to see things the way they were trained to see things, or see things the way you want.  Confidence shields me from them.

Anyway, didnt really mean what I said earlier.  Im getting busy here with work again. Put the setup on the shelf for now. Spent yesterday with it observing timing like I said earlier. Whether it is anything good or not, I have a better feel for some things that are going on.

Watching Shallow Hall.   Great movie.  Hadnt seen it in a long time.  Putting me in a better mood.

Mags


No love lost Mags....we are in the jungle...fighting for our individual and collective visions of the future.




Regards


Offline Magluvin

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #237 on: November 07, 2017, 09:33:30 AM »
Ok. Cool.

Couple questions.

If someone here does happen to get it, what would you like to see in all that? Would you like someone to finally get it? Would you like it if they tried to show everyone freely?

Just wonder.

Mags

Offline Erfinder

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #238 on: November 07, 2017, 09:53:32 AM »
Ok. Cool.

Couple questions.

If someone here does happen to get it, what would you like to see in all that?



thank you would be a fun place to start....


Would you like someone to finally get it?


would be interesting if someone finally got it....yeah...


Would you like it if they tried to show everyone freely?

Just wonder.

Mags


get it first.....


Offline forest

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Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #239 on: November 07, 2017, 09:55:35 AM »
Here is the answer:  https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/patents/us-patent-568178-method-regulating-apparatus-producing-electric-currents-high
You will know  8)
Once upon a time my teacher has given me a riddle : you have two metalic rods: one is the magnet and one is iron - you cannot differentiate among those by looking at them (they are identical in form and look) - you have no tools or apparatus to check magnetic field - you have only those two rods.
Find a method how to judge which one is the magnet.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....
« Reply #239 on: November 07, 2017, 09:55:35 AM »

 

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