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Author Topic: Gear pump and magnets  (Read 3203 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Gear pump and magnets
« on: September 09, 2017, 12:01:56 AM »
Hello.


I got a gear pump from a oil pump today. Big enoug to fit my magnets on. Inside this pump, there is two gears. One inner with 6 teeth, and one outer with seven teeth. Perfectly matched to make expanding pockets on one side at low pressure, and shrinking pockets on the high pressure side.
What I want to check out, is instead of using oil flow to achieve rotation, I want to use magnetic fields as the high and low pressure.
To achieve this, the small gear inside will have one magnet on each sides where the same pole, say North, is facing the gear.
This way, the six teeth will have South pole around its circumference like a radially magnetized magnet would have.


The large gear with its seven inner gears is surrounded by North facing magnets on one side, and South facing magnets on the other side.


This will result in attraction between inner and outer gear on one side, and repulsuion on the other side.
Since the gears are eccentrical, the inner South magnetized gear is forced to "roll" towards the North pole in the outer gear, with repulsion on the other side.


The magnets outside the outer gear is fixed, and the outer gear is free to rotate inside that field. This will keep orientation of North and South fixed even if the outer gear is spinning.


The test is about learning how mahnetic fields behaves in a configuration like this.


I will explain more later, but I attach pictures of the principles.


Pleas ask if you have questions, or comment if you have any suggestions.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Gear pump and magnets
« on: September 09, 2017, 12:01:56 AM »

Offline Thaelin

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2017, 07:21:41 AM »
Just remember to give it lots of lubrication. They usually run in an oil rich environment. Once did a soap dispenser with one of these. Just had to pull the outer cap once a month and clean up with water and a new piece of gasket. Hand crank on the end and worked great. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Low-Q

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2017, 07:38:33 AM »
Yup. I'll keep it lubricated. Have som silicon oil which is very slippery.
Metal parts like these do stick together with lots of friction when they are magnetized.
I dont expect a smooth runner, but maybe it's possible to manually turn it around to notice different torque in each direction :)

Vidar

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2017, 09:12:12 AM »
This design is so stuck by the powerful magnets. It is hard to turn it around, even with lubrication. Without magnets, it is spinning freely.
If anyone have an idea of making this smoother, you're welcome to contribute :)


Vidar


Offline lancaIV

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 09:46:41 AM »
                   appropriate use : for the needed use the right magnetic force
       ( the Flynn brothers searched at first with neodymium and returned to C8/5 ferrit magnets)
       "the crux" with permanent magnets ( fix force) has the electro magnets(variable force) as solution (or mixed use)

       more/less twenty years before I reed about this publication and saw the positive and negative functions from the device:
      https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=DE&NR=4033061A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19920423&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP#

      it is ever worthfull to also read cited and citing documents,often you will find estatal(f.e ESA,NASA) and great companies their employees   
      working forward on private developper and inventor their basic finds

     think modular(cascading) : Ernie Byron Esters
     https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=us&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=&IN=esters&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search

      easy data scan to C.A.D. to C.N.C. to C.I.M. project
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=&IN=li+yng+tyan&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search

f.e. by mill to C.N.C-mill : https://www.maxnc.net/
or to 3D-printer
for greater parts:
f.e.
 https://www.google.pt/search?q=herbak+zsolt+patent&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=hrCzWeblEM_v8Af-x7zAAQ

https://www.google.pt/search?client=firefox-b&dcr=0&q=herbak+zsolt+modellbau&oq=herbak+zsolt+modellbau&gs_l=psy-ab.12...118757.124230.0.125866.15.13.0.0.0.0.417.1732.0j10j4-1.11.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..4.8.1351...0i22i30k1j33i160k1.I4AvKr53SVg

for vehicles,small tiny houses and more and
                                     
               Motor, Expander, Compressor, and Hydraulics (MECH) all-in-1 units
http://www.solterrah.com/dr-mel-prueitt.php
http://www.solterrah.com/mech-engine.php

or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGiviT-C_oY

heat pumps with C.O.P. 1000 X ,impossible ? Conventional average C.O.P. 3X and capacitive winding motor (f.e. 220V/68mA for 5 KW force) 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 09:46:41 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Low-Q

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2017, 10:15:22 AM »

Hi there,


In which direction is the magnets polarized?
Radially
Along circumference
Along rotor axis


Vidar

                   appropriate use : for the needed use the right magnetic force
       ( the Flynn brothers searched at first with neodymium and returned to C8/5 ferrit magnets)
       "the crux" with permanent magnets ( fix force) has the electro magnets(variable force) as solution (or mixed use)

       more/less twenty years before I reed about this publication and saw the positive and negative functions from the device:
      https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=DE&NR=4033061A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19920423&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP#

      it is ever worthfull to also read cited and citing documents,often you will find estatal(f.e ESA,NASA) and great companies their employees   
      working forward on private developper and inventor their basic finds

     think modular(cascading) : Ernie Byron Esters
     https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=us&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=&IN=esters&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2017, 10:21:20 AM »
                         " permanent magnetic force device negativ function" : not universal = ccw and or cw
                              Your question,low-Q, depends from your/the operative direction wish :
                           think about the difference between DC-motor (ccw and cw possible)and AC-motor (ccw or cw) use

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2017, 10:21:20 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Low-Q

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2017, 12:05:41 PM »

Ok. So direction is depending on the direction of polarity.
I have one more thought:
After analyzing the design, at 12 o'clock it would not be possible to determine which direction the rotor will go. When the rotor is forced ccw it will run ccw for a while, guessing a half cycle, and vica verca.
The magnets in the rotor is trying to find equilibrium through the 14 inner iron pieces and the 13 outer ones. At 6 o'clock the pieces starts to line up again, and again the rotor can't decide where to go, ccw or cw.


I have done a simulation on a very similar design in FEMM a few years ago. There is ccw torque ona half cycle, and cw torque the other half which adds up in zero torque in one complete cycle.
Another issue is that the polarization did not have any influence in the result. 0 torque in total.


Do you have any thoughts about this?



                         " permanent jmagnetic force device negativ function" : not universal = ccw and or cw
                              Your question,low-Q, depends from your/the operative direction wish :
                           think about the difference between DC-motor (ccw and cw possible)and AC-motor (ccw or cw) use

Offline lancaIV

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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2017, 03:51:37 PM »
Hi there,


I took a look at the second link. The magnets with opposing poles. The difference in force head on vs sliding in.
The peak forces are different, but the average force is exactly the same.
Try to lift a 1 ton car 10cm straight up. You can't.
Roll that car up a ramp while spending 20m distance to roll it up 10cm. That's fine.
My point is, when sliding the magnets sideways, you spend more distance around the peak force.


The example of the crankshaft:
When the piston like magnet moves up as the sliding magnet approaches, that magnet will under load take time to rise. This increase the initial force. When the sliding magnet leaves, it leaves with less repulsion because the loaded piston magnet needs time to fall down.


That means you need input energy that corresponds 100% with the load.
No overunity.


The other google search links takes too much time to search through.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2017, 03:51:37 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline lancaIV

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2017, 04:08:38 PM »
                               permanent magnet /electro magnetic B/EMF

translation option in the espacenet-site included :

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=DE&NR=3900890A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19900719&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP


Bei der Belastung der Lastspule tritt nach der Lenzschen Regel eine der Drehrichtung des Rotors entgegenwirkende Kraft auf. Diese auf den Rotor wirkende Bremskraft wird aber durch zwei Umstände stark in ihrer Wirkung eingeschränkt: 1) Es ist bekannt, dass der Kraftaufwand von zwei aufeinander wirkenden Magneten sehr viel geringer ist, wenn die Magnete seitlich zueinander verschoben anstatt abgerissen werden. Diesen Umstand macht sich der mechanische ferromagnetische Energiewandler zunutze. [/size]2) Im vorliegenden Fall werden nicht zwei aufeinander wirkende Magnete getrennt, sondern der bestehende Magnetfluss wird vom einen Jochschenkel zum anderen verlagert, ohne unterbrochen zu werden. Als nicht dargestellte Alternative können auch anstelle der Dauermagnete gleichstromgespeiste Elektromagnete verwendet werden. Dies ist deshalb möglich, weil mit hohen Windungszahlen der Magnetspulen und niedrigen Spannungen sehr starke Magnetfelder erzeugt werden können, die dann in der Form des oben beschriebenen Energiewandlers grosse Mengen magnetischer Energie nutzbar machen.


http://overunity.com/17432/athena-generator-construction-and-instructions/msg510555/#new
2.nd video  :             https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kl5xqeA20Y
                                                             efficiency number ?


                                  ::) Try to lift a 1 ton car 10cm straight up. You can't. ::)   
                    You ever heared about someone named "Archimedes" and his lifting device ?
                                                  Zug- versus Hub- Kraft

Offline profitis

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2017, 04:34:50 PM »
"Try to lift a 1 ton car 10cm
straight up. You can't."

Hahaha think horizontal lanca


Offline Low-Q

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2017, 05:50:46 PM »
My point is, to be clear; you have more length, rotary or linear to counterforce the slidig magnet.
If you plot a graph for both cases, sliding and facing. Then find the area inside the curve over and under the center line.


This area is the product of force and displacement.


You will be surprised that the area in both graphs match perfectly.


Archimedes lifting device makes it manageable to lift water by doing it along a slope instead of lifting it up vertically. Except that his first built "screws" suffered from lots of friction (I have tested a poor replica in Denmark this summer), the applied potetial energy in the water is exactly the same.


This applies to the magnets as well. Sliding the magnet applies a potential energy that is equal to the applied potential energy when facing the magnet.


So the erergy output cannot be higher than the input.


Vidar

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2017, 07:30:30 PM »
                       "....... match perfectly."
     
              ccw screw          shaft     cw screw
                    hurrikan       Auge         hurrican

http://www.pesquisa-unificada.com/pesquisas/vortex/
                      Kreis-Aussen-Flaeche

the difference between an 1m-10m-100m rotor in windparks?
                          a        rpm x sqm
                          b        rpm x d
                          c        rpm x U

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=19860619&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=DE&NR=3602039A1&KC=A1&ND=4#

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Low-Q

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Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2017, 08:30:03 PM »
I have done some more experiments with the magnetic gear assambly.
The magnets around the outer gear are further away now.
Easier to rotate it together with the inner gear.


I can honestly say that there is still much friction, but much less. However, I can turn the rotors with a ceramic screwdriver inside the open pockets between the rotors.
I can easily feel that more force is required to turn the rotors ccw than cw direction.
When I flip the magnet which magnetize the inner rotor, I must apply more force in the other direction. In other words, it corresponds to what I expect from the design.


That said, I'm not 100% sure if the rotors some how have more friction one way than the other, depending on polarity of the inner rotor. So now I have printed out a crank that is glued on the outer rotor. I will do the same with the inner rotor.


It remains some more test before I can confirm the final results.


Attached picture was taken during the making of the new gear frame with magnet compartments.


Vidar.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gear pump and magnets
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2017, 08:30:03 PM »

 

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