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Author Topic: Rotating stator and rotating rotor  (Read 2338 times)

Offline justawatt

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Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« on: August 14, 2017, 10:14:11 PM »
hi i came across a motor where rotor and stator of motor rotates at same time ,where now the motor is more eff .
now there are motors in the market which are 99 % eff where only rotor are rotating , if we can rotate stator also ,we can have motors more than 100 %

Proof of concept
DC motor http://rotatingstator.com/index_eng.html

And for induction motor
Безопорный двигатель 1. Такого двигателя не видели.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBWKi5k1zCQ


some more info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sle8xUWtNI
http://www.google.co.in/patents/US20060125243

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Newton II

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 02:34:09 AM »


Offline indigo22

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 05:54:18 AM »
1st answer

bad idea look at searl project 2 explain simple you want a coil witch produces a magnetic field by putting voltage and amperage on the coil
that produces the tap. as a metafore take a bicicle put it upside down and tap the weel
you need less energy with the same effect of the energy, when you use dc your killing the dipole
3 fase motors and regular dc motors Always have a green yellow wire to ground it, that all the radiant energy going to waste

you wanna use pulsed dc to tap it
i used to pulse moving stuf but came aware of solid state
first by Thomas Bearden the college of John Bedini the MEG

then i have buildid my own coils and start pulsing them

2 newtonn yes thats overunity but in a small scale, they have better setups look up perminant magnetic motor perendev 8)

Offline indigo22

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 06:00:11 AM »
perendev

they somehow figure out how to either shield 1 side of the magnet or they produce them like that not realy sure
think in your old big pc's hardrives is mounted with a shielding plate
anyway here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFGiWiXMHn0


Offline Bertoa

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 12:22:47 PM »
The counter rotating rotor and stator in a motor is a very interesting setup to explore. At the moment I am experimenting
with a permanent magnet motor build in that way. At a later stage I hope to publish some results concerning in/output power,
efficiency, torque and construction.
Justawatt, when a motor with a rotating rotor and stator should be more efficient than 100% it was already invented 100 years ago.
There are enough patents on that theme. By the way, why not talking about counter rotating rotors. In this case the stator becomes a rotor.
To make it more complex; why keep it only by 2 rotors?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 12:22:47 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2017, 04:11:27 PM »
Interesting find justawatt

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Offline antijon

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2017, 05:26:55 PM »
Justawatt, this is an amazing find https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBWKi5k1zCQ

The rotor and stator are attached to the same pulley. When the motor is powered, the rotor drags the stator in the same direction.

This proves that the back torque against the stator is not the same as the torque on the rotor. If the rotor torque and stator back torque were equal, the rotor and stator would try to turn in opposite directions. No matter what pulleys were put between, the forces would be equal and the motor would not turn. This shows the opposite, the rotor torque is higher than the stator, and therefore, the rotor must be applying torque against something other than the stator.

If I had to guess, I'd say the torque is being directly applied to the magnetic field of the stator, but the field doesn't translate that completely into torque on the physical coils of the stator. Of course it's not OU because the magnetic field is proportional to the electrical power input, but it makes me question something else...

Does something like a Hatem generator actually produce OU? The magnetic cogs have intrinsic magnetic fields and don't require any external energy to maintain. If the above motor demo hypothesis is true, the mechanical energy out of a Hatem should be greater than the mechanical energy in. http://www.rexresearch.com/hatem/hatem.htm

Mindfreer repro: https://youtu.be/c4FEba4kQb0  https://youtu.be/PzIfowus-HY

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2017, 05:26:55 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2017, 07:34:09 PM »
I am seeing if this posts to the forum,, I do not have a reply choice on this thread at this moment so I used the profile link to see a post and then use that for a reply.

Offline webby1

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2017, 07:45:52 PM »
So that worked,, interesting.


Anyhow,,,


You do see this motor as a gear reduction motor,, right?


The torque,, well what is stopping the case from rotating?  Normally the case is mounted solid to something,, if the case is free to spin then what torque is transmitted to the rotor shaft,, does the rotor and case care which one is spinning?


Imagine a planetary gear set,, replace the planet gear with a motor\gear and secure the motor case to the planet carrier, power up the motor.  You can have all 3 rotate or only 1, or 2 of the 3.
I built a system like that one day to see if I could use 4 small motors to run a load and also use the motors I did not need to run the load act as generators to recharge the source,, kind of like running the motors at there peak efficiency\RPM and still allow for a change in output shaft speed.

Offline Bertoa

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2017, 08:56:34 PM »
@ this OU forum we have to admit that Russians are very interested (and also very skilled) in building electromechanical devices.
The Quest for OverUnity is going fast in that country and also in it's former USSR satellite states. They have exellent engineers and
scientists using more and more YouTube as their publishing platform.   
I don't know Russian but Google does. This is one of the YT reactions at the contra rotating rotor and stator motor.

"If you are a physicist, RESPOND TO IT.
Experiments are what happens in practice.
I argue with physicists that the rotor has more power than the stator. The rotor and stator have the same torque moments, but the revolutions are different.
That's multiplying the speed at the moment of force and we get different power from the rotor and stator. Physicists on the forum are proving to me
hat there is no such thing in physics, the rotor and stator have different power. And I say to them that the rotor and stator have different power
if we consider the power formula F * s / t. I argue with the physicists at the forum, there is Newton's law, the smaller the rotor is relative to the stator,
the more will have speed. What is the difference in mass and radius of the rotor from the stator in so many will differ their speed. All physicists agree with this.
The moment of force of the rotor and stator is also the same according to Newton's law. Now we multiply the moment of force on the rotor and stator revolutions and see different power.
 Everything is still correct according to the laws of physics. Physicists do not like that the rotor and stator have different power.
Why. Yes, because there is Newton's third law, "The force of action is equal to the force of opposition." The question is asked, different capacities may have the same strength of action.
This is a serious topic. Physicists are in a deadlock situation and can not give me an answer. If physicists tell me that different powers have different strengths of action,
this means that Newton's third law is not correct."

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2017, 08:56:34 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2017, 09:24:09 PM »
Sometimes things like reference frames get missed,, as in what is moving relative to what.


The rotor and the stator have the same power, same force, same everything,, then when you go and measure relative things like RPM from outside that reference frame,, well you need to adjust what it is you are looking at..


Compared to a non moving point outside the system under investigation the two parts can have different qualities,, but there sum is the same.  If you were to assume that the rotor spins one direction with 1\2 the RPM and the stator rotates the other direction with 1\2 the RPM and they both have the same force.  If you were to *hold* one of them still by your hand then *you* would see the other one spin up to twice the RPM but what is it the rotor and stator see?  How is it then that your hand feels the torque as the part that is accelerating is accelerating?  Well your hand has an input into the system and decelerates the one part relative to *you* and in doing so applies an opposing force that accelerates the other part relative to you and now the first part.


Power is a strange thing to play with,, the rotor is spinning faster than the stator,, BUT,, it is spinning SLOWER than if the stator were held still,, see, power out from rotor to stator and power out from rotor to load,, or from stator to load or from both to load,, in the end when you sum them the power is the same due to the torque*RPM being the same in the end.


I am not a Physicist,, I have played with a lot of setups like this and took the time to try and follow the force.

Offline Bertoa

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2017, 10:14:26 PM »
Hi Webby, I'm not a physicist either but I like to know more about the theory of mass.
Here again a (part of) a comment made from the same person where he takes an example of a bullet and a gun
to explain the relation between innertia, mass and acceleration.


"Let's imagine an example:
The bullet strikes the body at 3.6 kg with a force F = 102244.9.
The gun strikes the body at 3.6 kg with a force F = 4924.8.
And the gun and the bullet will give the same bodies the same impulses.

What have you come to? I came to this, the body of 3,6 kg resists the change in speed of 20 times more when a bullet hits, than when it strikes a gun.
This proves that the greater the acceleration of the body, the greater the inertia of the body.
In short, Newton's second law through this formula m * a = F confirms that the inertia of the body varies in proportion to the acceleration. This is confirmed by practice.
The bullet had 20 times more resistance to changes in speed than the shotgun, when they brake into metal. This means that inertia-mass has grown 20-fold.
Fact is a fact, you can not argue with that.

Physicists are looking for an explanation of what a mass is. Acceleration is a change in the speed resistance. A change in the resistance of the speed is inertia.
And inertia is a mass. All this is written in the first and second law of Newton. The mass increases with acceleration.

There is no law of conservation of mass in nature.

If the inertia and mass of the body change, then there will be a flutter and a perpetual motion machine.

Physics is confusing. Newton's laws assert that inertia and mass vary with the body during acceleration. The law of conservation of mass, not true.
The law of conservation of mass is in contradiction with the laws of Newton".



Offline webby1

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2017, 10:35:10 PM »
Hi Webby, I'm not a physicist either but I like to know more about the theory of mass.
Here again a (part of) a comment made from the same person where he takes an example of a bullet and a gun
to explain the relation between innertia, mass and acceleration.


"Let's imagine an example:
The bullet strikes the body at 3.6 kg with a force F = 102244.9.
The gun strikes the body at 3.6 kg with a force F = 4924.8.
And the gun and the bullet will give the same bodies the same impulses.
What is not mentioned is the time.
The gun accelerates the bullet over a longer time period than what it takes for a bullet to come to a stop when hitting an object.
So when F=ma if "a" is slow for one and fast for another what is not the same is time,, so the same energy spent for both but in a different time value.
Thus one might be an impulse,, the bullet hitting the body, but the other is not.

Quote
What have you come to? I came to this, the body of 3,6 kg resists the change in speed of 20 times more when a bullet hits, than when it strikes a gun.
This proves that the greater the acceleration of the body, the greater the inertia of the body.
So the TIME of energy expense is shorter,, say 1\20th the time,, same energy over a shorter time.
Quote
In short, Newton's second law through this formula m * a = F confirms that the inertia of the body varies in proportion to the acceleration. This is confirmed by practice.
The bullet had 20 times more resistance to changes in speed than the shotgun, when they brake into metal. This means that inertia-mass has grown 20-fold.
Fact is a fact, you can not argue with that.

Physicists are looking for an explanation of what a mass is. Acceleration is a change in the speed resistance. A change in the resistance of the speed is inertia.
And inertia is a mass. All this is written in the first and second law of Newton. The mass increases with acceleration.

There is no law of conservation of mass in nature.

If the inertia and mass of the body change, then there will be a flutter and a perpetual motion machine.

Physics is confusing. Newton's laws assert that inertia and mass vary with the body during acceleration. The law of conservation of mass, not true.
The law of conservation of mass is in contradiction with the laws of Newton".
Inertia,, the force that wants no change,, funny force in a universe that is always changing,, :)

Offline antijon

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2017, 11:15:28 PM »
Webby, I see what you mean by a planetary gear. In the first part of the video he turns the rotor by hand, and the stator also moves at a lower RPM. That's true when turned by an external force. I also understand that the stator would try to turn opposite the direction of the rotor, and if allowed to the RPM of each would come to total the RPM of one if the other were stationary.

But I still don't see how a gear reduction would cause the rotor to drag the stator in the same direction. This can only be possible if the stator induces more torque on the rotor than the rotor induces on the stator. Or I could be mistaken and just seeing diamonds in dirt.

I think a good test would be to see if a motor with a locked rotor would still produce a torque when powered. I'll have to add that to my list.  ;D


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2017, 12:36:29 AM »
I am seeing if this posts to the forum,, I do not have a reply choice on this thread at this moment so I used the profile link to see a post and then use that for a reply.

The reason you aren't seeing the "reply" or "quote" buttons is because somebody
posted a HUGE image up above, so the buttons are scrolled all the way offscreen to the right.

If you use your scrollbar and shift all the way to the right you'll see the usual Reply, etc. buttons.

This will persist on this page until someone either edits that HUGE IMAGE or enough posts are made to
go to a second page of normal width.


HINT: If people can't even figure out how to edit an image so that it doesn't result in this stupid
SUPERWIDE page... how do they expect to discover "Overunity" or "Free Energy" ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rotating stator and rotating rotor
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2017, 12:36:29 AM »

 

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