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### Author Topic: Idea: Homopolar motor with multiwinding coils  (Read 1460 times)

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2589
##### Idea: Homopolar motor with multiwinding coils
« on: September 24, 2017, 10:45:50 PM »
Hello,

I downloaded an image of magnetic fields around a disc magnet. Then started to sketch a coil with a special shape.
As we know, homopolar motors is driven by only one winding attached to one pole on the battery and the magnets circumference.

What I don't know yet, is if it is possible to make a multiwinding homopolar motor that is brushless.
When analyzing the magnetic field around a magnet, I thought of shaping a coil so the field lines cross the coil only once and in only one direction.
The shape is easy to make, but if it works as I hope, is another story.

This is not an overunity test. It is a test wether it's possible to avoid magnetic field lines to cross a coil in two directions. As we know, two directions cancel out the driving forces, and force the coil to flip over and align its electromagnetic field with the magnet. So traditionally, a coil have torque perpendiculary to the desired torque, and will not force the magnet to rotate.

See attached image. I will print out a template where I can wind my coil with a thin insolated copperwire. I'll make sure the coil shape follows parallell to the field lines, except where the coil is supposed to cross the field lines perpendiculary - where the desired (and assumed) one-way driving force is generated.

Vidar

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Idea: Homopolar motor with multiwinding coils
« on: September 24, 2017, 10:45:50 PM »

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2589
##### Re: Idea: Homopolar motor with multiwinding coils
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2017, 08:10:15 AM »
Well. That didn't work very well.
I took a still picture. It is just as useful as a video, LOL

Moving the electromagnet to the sides just force the magnet towards me or away from me. There is no forces which cause rotation because the magnetic gradient points perpenducular and vertically.

Magnetic gradient is a must. Without it, it will never work. And with it it will never spin continous because at some point the magnetic gradient reach a maximum density where the sticky spot is.

Vidar

#### Magluvin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5744
##### Re: Idea: Homopolar motor with multiwinding coils
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2017, 10:20:44 AM »
Im not sure I buy the electric field of a magnet or that it is how induction works. Im finding the flux cutting more logical as time passes. Like a toroid transformer with a pri on one side and a sec on the other side, I believe that the field developed by the pri expands across the hole of the toroid core to 'cut' the sec.  Measure 1 wire through the hole and compare to any other position around the core. Its all or mostly happening in the hole. So during changing currents such as AC input, there is a lot of action in the hole and not just fields stuck in the core itself.

If we look at the different ways the homopolar copper disk and ring magnet produce current and other ways do not, this should be telling of magnetic fields.

If we spin the copper disk and the ring mag is stationary, we get current in the copper disk.

If we spin just the ring magnet, we get no current in the copper disk.

Now if we spin the ring magnet and the copper disk, we get current from the copper disk.

This tells us that the field from the magnet is stationary when the ring magnet spins, as in spinning the magnet on axis does not drag the flux in the spin. There may be some field strength imperfections of the magnet that may give the idea that the field is being dragged, but it is just that, an imperfect magnet.

Spin just the magnet and the flux is stationary and is not cutting the copper to induce current. Spin the magnet with the copper disk or leave the mag stationary and only spin the disk, then yes we get current either way..

The interesting thing would be is if the mag and copper disk spin together, would there be a drag on the spin if the disk current is loaded?  If there is, what is it dragging against?

Mags

#### Magluvin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5744
##### Re: Idea: Homopolar motor with multiwinding coils
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2017, 10:22:31 AM »
By the way, nice winding thing you made.     Its good that you did it. More knowledge added to the books.

Mags

#### Magluvin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5744
##### Re: Idea: Homopolar motor with multiwinding coils
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2017, 10:33:00 AM »
Im not sure I buy the electric field of a magnet or that it is how induction works. Im finding the flux cutting more logical as time passes. Like a toroid transformer with a pri on one side and a sec on the other side, I believe that the field developed by the pri expands across the hole of the toroid core to 'cut' the sec.  Measure 1 wire through the hole and compare to any other position around the core. Its all or mostly happening in the hole. So during changing currents such as AC input, there is a lot of action in the hole and not just fields stuck in the core itself.

If we look at the different ways the homopolar copper disk and ring magnet produce current and other ways do not, this should be telling of magnetic fields.

If we spin the copper disk and the ring mag is stationary, we get current in the copper disk.

If we spin just the ring magnet, we get no current in the copper disk.

Now if we spin the ring magnet and the copper disk, we get current from the copper disk.

This tells us that the field from the magnet is stationary when the ring magnet spins, as in spinning the magnet on axis does not drag the flux in the spin. There may be some field strength imperfections of the magnet that may give the idea that the field is being dragged, but it is just that, an imperfect magnet.

Spin just the magnet and the flux is stationary and is not cutting the copper to induce current. Spin the magnet with the copper disk or leave the mag stationary and only spin the disk, then yes we get current either way..

The interesting thing would be is if the mag and copper disk spin together, would there be a drag on the spin if the disk current is loaded?   If there is, what is it dragging against?

Mags

I did a test on a coil that uses thousands of turns of 42awg wire. Will light an led with a simple hand pass of a mag. I mounted a mag to the coil in many ways and tried to get the led to light by moving it as a unit through the air. It did not light. So Id say by making a ring mag for a homopolar out of a bunch of smaller mags would not produce current like a continuous ring magnet that spins with the copper disk. The magnet needs to be a single unit continuous loop. I had described it more in depth in another thread. Has to do with the individual mags actually dragging the field with the copper disk and not cutting the disk, where the continuous ring seemingly does not drag the field so the spinning copper does get cut to produce current. Gota git for now

Mags

Mags

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Idea: Homopolar motor with multiwinding coils
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2017, 10:33:00 AM »

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2589
##### Re: Idea: Homopolar motor with multiwinding coils
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2017, 11:04:00 AM »
Im not sure I buy the electric field of a magnet or that it is how induction works. Im finding the flux cutting more logical as time passes. Like a toroid transformer with a pri on one side and a sec on the other side, I believe that the field developed by the pri expands across the hole of the toroid core to 'cut' the sec.  Measure 1 wire through the hole and compare to any other position around the core. Its all or mostly happening in the hole. So during changing currents such as AC input, there is a lot of action in the hole and not just fields stuck in the core itself.

If we look at the different ways the homopolar copper disk and ring magnet produce current and other ways do not, this should be telling of magnetic fields.

If we spin the copper disk and the ring mag is stationary, we get current in the copper disk.

If we spin just the ring magnet, we get no current in the copper disk.

Now if we spin the ring magnet and the copper disk, we get current from the copper disk.

This tells us that the field from the magnet is stationary when the ring magnet spins, as in spinning the magnet on axis does not drag the flux in the spin. There may be some field strength imperfections of the magnet that may give the idea that the field is being dragged, but it is just that, an imperfect magnet.

Spin just the magnet and the flux is stationary and is not cutting the copper to induce current. Spin the magnet with the copper disk or leave the mag stationary and only spin the disk, then yes we get current either way..

The interesting thing would be is if the mag and copper disk spin together, would there be a drag on the spin if the disk current is loaded?   If there is, what is it dragging against?

Mags

The magnetic field in a toroid transformer is not only in the core, but also outside the circumference and inside the hole.
As the AC flows through the windings, this field gradient expands and contracts through the windings. The iron core only helps keeping up the inductance for the transformer to not draw too much current.

The homopolar motor works pretty much like a railgun, except with a railgun you do not need magnets. But the railgun needs brushes to connect the projectile to the two conducting tracks.
With a railgun, the magnetic field is always propelling the projectile in one direction, but if you connect the powersupply in the middle of the track, and place the projectile in the middle, the projectile might stands still, except if you place the projectile slightly on one or the other side of the connected powersupply - the projectile is flying away one or the other direction.

With a homopolar motor, there are no end of the track since it is circular, so without the permanentmagnet, it cant determine which direction it will rotate. So a permanent magnetic field is necessary to determine the direction. The conductor in a homopolar motor is therefor propelled very similar to a railgun.

In both concepts it is impossible to introduce  multiple windings, because it is not the magnetic field in the winding itself that starts the propulsion, but the repelling forces between the wire itself and the disc. The Lorentz force.

Vidar