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Author Topic: what happens between a teslacoil the battery the incadescent bulb and the ground  (Read 9020 times)

Offline TeslaScientific

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This fight will never stop ,unless somebody show that Tesla coil can be used in 2 or 3 completely different modes of operation. That is the reason people cannot replicate Tesla findings. Confusion.
Would be VERY VERY IMPORTANT to scale down TeslaScientific Tesla coil and compare the results with RF version. I do believe this is not RF exactly like Tesla said.

It can be, but the question was how to explain the effect. So I said remove all the unnecessary components, and see what causes it. Instead of fiddling with the circuit and battery, that's not what the source of the effect is. It's the high frequency high potential AC output from the coil. Replace the circuit entirely, remove the battery, change everything, and the effect will remain, because the coil remains. So if it can be done without the circuit or the battery, then neither the circuit nor the battery have anything to do with the effect.

The coil I'm using is Tesla's Colorado Springs coil scaled down to the 160 metre amateur radio band, but it works the same with every coil.

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Offline tinman

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 author=TeslaScientific link=topic=17334.msg507932#msg507932 date=1499198226]



Quote
It's a SINGLE wire single terminal transmission system. There is no "ground loop" or "closed circuits" through air gaps. It's exactly like the AT&T/Bell Labs video shows. The waves reflect/oscillate back and forth along the transmission line/structure, and that's why the bulb lights with one wire, not because of imaginary closed circuits. It's not necessary to form a closed circuit.

That is not correct--there is always a path for the current to follow-or flow through.

In this case,it is via capacitive coupling,as shown in all your pictures you posted,where you are one end/plate of that capacitor.

Try lighting your incandescent bulb's without touching them,or having a can(as a cap plate) attached to one end of the bulb--you will see that it will either not light at all,or it will be extremely dull,where the bulb casing itself is acting as a small capacitor plate.

At high frequencies,even the smallest value of capacitance can deliver high amounts of current-even when that path is through the air.

Your incandescent bulb's(and i suspect the same with TKs setup),are being lit due to capacitive coupling,which completes the path for current to flow,and where the air around you is the dielectric between the capacitor plates(you and the circuit).


Brad


Offline forest

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What is that magic "capacitive coupling" ? People are trying to explain everything based on this concept, but it is only related to RF coupling.


 What if the bulb is on the long line connected to one of the terminals of the dual Tesla coil secondary with the second terminal connected to the proper capacitor plate, and bulb is connected then to the metallic plate and is brightly lit ? That was described in one of Tesla;s lectures.

Offline tinman

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Quote
What is that magic "capacitive coupling" ? People are trying to explain everything based on this concept, but it is only related to RF coupling.

RF-meaning high frequency.
As i stated,a very small value capacitance can deliver high currents at high frequencies.

Quote
What if the bulb is on the long line connected to one of the terminals of the dual Tesla coil secondary with the second terminal connected to the proper capacitor plate, and bulb is connected then to the metallic plate and is brightly lit ? That was described in one of Tesla;s lectures.

The answer is very simple--can you light an incandescent bulb with only one of it's terminals connected to one half of the source?

Every time you see an incandescent bulb being lit,it always has a capacitive coupler plate connected to one terminal of the bulb,and the other terminal of the bulb is connected to one part of the circuit.

Try and light an incandescent bulb as pictured below,where there is no capacitive path for current to flow.


Offline tinman

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What is that magic "capacitive coupling" ? People are trying to explain everything based on this concept, but it is only related to RF coupling.


 What if the bulb is on the long line connected to one of the terminals of the dual Tesla coil secondary with the second terminal connected to the proper capacitor plate, and bulb is connected then to the metallic plate and is brightly lit ? That was described in one of Tesla;s lectures.

forest,read this,and you will understand what i am talking about

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_transmission_line

Quote:  At much higher frequencies, however, it is possible for the return circuit (which would normally be connected through a second wire) to utilize the self- and parasitic capacitance of a large conductive object, perhaps the housing of the load itself. Although the self-capacitance of even large objects is rather small in ordinary terms, as Tesla himself appreciated it is possible to resonate that capacitance using a sufficiently large inductor (depending on the frequency used), in which case the large reactance of that capacitance is cancelled out. This allows a large current to flow (and a large power to be supplied to the load) without requiring an extremely high voltage source.

Brad

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Offline woopy

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Thank's Tinman and Forest

Now we are going on the original question of this thread

What seems to hapeen between the Tc, the battery , the bulb, and the ground should  be" capacitive coupling" or stray capacitance or...

Until now i always thought that this "capacitive coupling " was something annoying in electronic circuit, so to me something of small value, and in no case capable of lighting brightly an incandecent bulb.

But it seems that  at high frequency we should be able to "resonate" that small capacitance so the  reactance of this capacitance decreases and so a large current can pass through. thin air!!!

Whaouu! that's interesting

So the difference of the brightness between TK'sbulb and my small chines Tc shoulds be the ability to more or less "resonate" the capacitance all arround us.

Now i think that it is important to study better the phenomena and try to determine how is the electron flow (current) moving in this "pseudo open" environnement?

Thank's to all for contribution

Laurent

Offline endlessoceans

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But it seems that  at high frequency we should be able to "resonate" that small capacitance so the  reactance of this capacitance decreases and so a large current can pass through. thin air!!!

Whaouu! that's interesting


Now i think that it is important to study better the phenomena and try to determine how is the electron flow (current) moving in this "pseudo open" environnement?

Thank's to all for contribution

Laurent

Woopy

This is nothing new and it has been well studied long time ago.

  the air is NOT so thin......you pump enough energy into any medium and it will conduct.....it all comes down to how much waste there will be....and there IS waste.

I didn't bother with replying to the so called "contradictions" because there was too much nit picking on the terminology.  Basically you had three guys saying much the same thing but getting caught up in the language of how they express it.  HF transmission is an interesting field with many applications and that's why Tesla spent so much time with it.

Also don't lose sight of the fact it was a 4 watt bulb (tiny load).......and not OU.


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Offline woopy

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Woopy

This is nothing new and it has been well studied long time ago.

  the air is NOT so thin......you pump enough energy into any medium and it will conduct.....it all comes down to how much waste there will be....and there IS waste.

I didn't bother with replying to the so called "contradictions" because there was too much nit picking on the terminology.  Basically you had three guys saying much the same thing but getting caught up in the language of how they express it.  HF transmission is an interesting field with many applications and that's why Tesla spent so much time with it.

Also don't lose sight of the fact it was a 4 watt bulb (tiny load).......and not OU.

Hi e o

You say that this is nothing new, and a lot of studies are already made.
 
To me it is  new and i would  improve my knowledge and i would very much apreciate some  links to the studies you mentionned on the subject.

Many thank's

Laurent

Offline TeslaScientific

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That is not correct--there is always a path for the current to follow-or flow through.

In this case,it is via capacitive coupling,as shown in all your pictures you posted,where you are one end/plate of that capacitor.

Try lighting your incandescent bulb's without touching them,or having a can(as a cap plate) attached to one end of the bulb--you will see that it will either not light at all,or it will be extremely dull,where the bulb casing itself is acting as a small capacitor plate.

At high frequencies,even the smallest value of capacitance can deliver high amounts of current-even when that path is through the air.

Your incandescent bulb's(and i suspect the same with TKs setup),are being lit due to capacitive coupling,which completes the path for current to flow,and where the air around you is the dielectric between the capacitor plates(you and the circuit).


Brad

It definitely has nothing to do with capacitive coupling. It IS a ONE WIRE SINGLE POLE system. The capacitance doesn't couple any energy. Putting a small capacitor across the bulb would do the same. It's only a "load" that the energy will reflect from. When the bulb filament is the end of the transmission line, of course it doesn't light, why should it? Why should the energy flow through the filament and heat it up to produce light? When you put a terminating capacitance AFTER the filament, now the energy flows THROUGH the filament, and it lights. 100% NOT capacitive coupling. It's absolutely based on the fact that the energy is reflecting back and forth within the terminating bounds of the transmission line, just like the Bell Labs video shows. The bulb filament happens to be at some point along that transmission line, so the oscillating energy is flowing through it, and so it lights. No "ground" or "return loop" or "capacitive coupling" necessary. The "ground" is the one and only, live terminal.

Inconvenient fact #1: Capacitive coupling depends on the capacitance. The capacitance depends on the distance. Unfortunately for some speculations and hypotheses, the distance from the coil makes no difference whatsoever. Hence the capacitance makes no difference whatsoever. Hence it is not capacitive coupling.

Inconvenient fact #2: Radiated energy is governed by the inverse square law. 1/distance squared. Double the distance, quarter the power. I double the distance, and I get the same amount of power. Why? Because the energy is only going through the wire.

Even if Tesla himself told you what was happening, someone out there would still argue back and tell him that he's wrong.

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1908-00-00.htm

https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/articles/famous-scientific-illusions

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1919-05-00.htm

Offline tinman

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It definitely has nothing to do with capacitive coupling. It IS a ONE WIRE SINGLE POLE system. The capacitance doesn't couple any energy. Putting a small capacitor across the bulb would do the same. It's only a "load" that the energy will reflect from. When the bulb filament is the end of the transmission line, of course it doesn't light, why should it? Why should the energy flow through the filament and heat it up to produce light? When you put a terminating capacitance AFTER the filament, now the energy flows THROUGH the filament, and it lights. 100% NOT capacitive coupling. It's absolutely based on the fact that the energy is reflecting back and forth within the terminating bounds of the transmission line, just like the Bell Labs video shows. The bulb filament happens to be at some point along that transmission line, so the oscillating energy is flowing through it, and so it lights. No "ground" or "return loop" or "capacitive coupling" necessary. The "ground" is the one and only, live terminal.

Inconvenient fact #1: Capacitive coupling depends on the capacitance. The capacitance depends on the distance. Unfortunately for some speculations and hypotheses, the distance from the coil makes no difference whatsoever. Hence the capacitance makes no difference whatsoever. Hence it is not capacitive coupling.

Inconvenient fact #2: Radiated energy is governed by the inverse square law. 1/distance squared. Double the distance, quarter the power. I double the distance, and I get the same amount of power. Why? Because the energy is only going through the wire.

Even if Tesla himself told you what was happening, someone out there would still argue back and tell him that he's wrong.

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1908-00-00.htm

https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/articles/famous-scientific-illusions

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1919-05-00.htm

Perhaps you should study up on ground plane's a little.


Brad

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Offline blueplanet

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All i can say is, the whole civilization of this date has been brain-washed too much by the text-book knowledge.

Offline forest

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You should more listen to TeslaScientific. I agree 100%. This is single wire transmission line, or at least 95% of it like Tesla stated. The main confusion is that tesla device can be used both to create single wire transmission of this special waves and to radiate radio frequency waves.


It's not that easy to duplicate Tesla's findings - TeslaScientific  please : show us all information to replicate your device (maybe in smaller scale if possible) or the confusion would take next 100 years.


How you guys would be able to replicate Kapanadze overunity devices without replication of Tesla's findings ? Tesla stated clearly he invented a way to capture and use ambient energy.


Offline TeslaScientific

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You should more listen to TeslaScientific. I agree 100%. This is single wire transmission line, or at least 95% of it like Tesla stated. The main confusion is that tesla device can be used both to create single wire transmission of this special waves and to radiate radio frequency waves.


It's not that easy to duplicate Tesla's findings - TeslaScientific  please : show us all information to replicate your device (maybe in smaller scale if possible) or the confusion would take next 100 years.


How you guys would be able to replicate Kapanadze overunity devices without replication of Tesla's findings ? Tesla stated clearly he invented a way to capture and use ambient energy.

Thank you forest. I'd agree with what you said too. It can be used in both ways. I've already posted this but apparently some have an allergic reaction to reading what Tesla had to say:

Quote from: Nikola Tesla
You see, the apparatus which I have devised was an apparatus enabling one to produce tremendous differences of potential and currents in an antenna circuit.  These requirements must be fulfilled, whether you transmit by currents of conduction, or whether you transmit by electromagnetic waves.  You want high potential currents, you want a great amount of vibratory energy; but you can graduate this vibratory energy.  By proper design and choice of wave lengths, you can arrange it so that you get, for instance, 5 percent in these electromagnetic waves and 95 percent in the current that goes through the earth.  That is what I am doing.  Or you can get, as these radio men, 95 percent in the energy of electromagnetic waves and only 5 percent in the energy of the current. . . . The apparatus is suitable for one or the other method.  I am not producing radiation with my system; I am suppressing electromagnetic waves. . . . In my system, you should free yourself of the idea that there is radiation, that the energy is radiated.  It is not radiated; it is conserved.

That coil design is available on my web site:

http://www.teslascientific.com/product/colorado-springs-magnifying-transmitter-scale-model-design-sheet/

Or the original design and all the details are in Colorado Springs Notes. But the basic effect is the same with every coil, but as Tesla points out in the quote above, a proper (optimised) design will yield the most desirable results. There's also a free calculator on the web site for Eric Dollard's Crystal Radio Initiative coils, those would work too. But I think the problem is more a lack of listening to what Tesla said...

Ernst from Energetic Forum has been doing some good work too, I don't have a direct link to the document he published but the link is somewhere in the description on one of his videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheMage00000/videos

Offline tinman

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The capacitance doesn't couple any energy. Putting a small capacitor across the bulb would do the same. It's only a "load" that the energy will reflect from. Why should the energy flow through the filament and heat it up to produce light?   just like the Bell Labs video shows. The bulb filament happens to be at some point along that transmission line, so the oscillating energy is flowing through it, and so it lights. No "ground" or "return loop" or "capacitive coupling" necessary. The "ground" is the one and only, live terminal.

Inconvenient fact #1: Capacitive coupling depends on the capacitance. The capacitance depends on the distance. Unfortunately for some speculations and hypotheses, the distance from the coil makes no difference whatsoever. Hence the capacitance makes no difference whatsoever. Hence it is not capacitive coupling.

Inconvenient fact #2: Radiated energy is governed by the inverse square law. 1/distance squared. Double the distance, quarter the power. I double the distance, and I get the same amount of power. Why? Because the energy is only going through the wire.

Even if Tesla himself told you what was happening, someone out there would still argue back and tell him that he's wrong.

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1908-00-00.htm

https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/articles/famous-scientific-illusions

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1919-05-00.htm

Quote
When the bulb filament is the end of the transmission line, of course it doesn't light, why should it?

Because if current could be delivered to a load via one single wire,then that current should be able to be delivered to that load,regardless of where that load is placed along that single wire.

Quote
It definitely has nothing to do with capacitive coupling. It IS a ONE WIRE SINGLE POLE system.

But your statement above say's  that one wire cannot light the bulb unless--Quote:When you put a terminating capacitance AFTER the filament, now the energy flows THROUGH the filament, and it lights.

That is correct. There needs to be some form of plate after the bulb in order for it to light--that is the conductor acting as one capacitor plate.

Quote
100% NOT capacitive coupling. It's absolutely based on the fact that the energy is reflecting back and forth within the terminating bounds of the transmission line,

The fact that you need anything after the bulb,in order for the bulb to light,is proof beyond doubt that it is capacitive coupling.

Nature it self shows us this with lightning.
One of the plates is the ground,and the other is the clouds. When the potential is high enough,the discharge arc takes place-over fare greater distances than you can demonstrate with your systems.

So once again,you need some form of plate or antenna !after! the bulb,in order for the bulb to light,and so,the bulb is being lit due to capacitive coupling,and not by current flowing back and forth along a single conductor.

Whether you want to believe it or not,in order for current to flow,there must be a path for it to follow.

Please read,so as you may understand what is happening,and stray from giving wrong information.
I have highlighted the part you are missing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_transmission_line

At the end of the 19th century, Nikola Tesla demonstrated that by using an electrical network tuned to resonance it was possible to transmit electric power using only a single conductor, with no need for a return wire. This was spoken of as the "transmission of electrical energy through one wire without return".[1][2]

In 1891, 1892, and 1893 demonstration lectures with electrical oscillators before the AIEE at Columbia College, N.Y.C., the IEE, London, the Franklin Institute, Philadelphia, and National Electric Light Association, St. Louis, it was shown that electric motors and single-terminal incandescent lamps can be operated through a single conductor without a return wire. Although apparently lacking a complete circuit, such a topology effectively obtains a return circuit by virtue of the load's self-capacitance and parasitic capacitance

So once again--the bulb lights because of the capacitive coupling.


Brad


Offline tinman

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Here is another video showing a single wire transmission line delivering a lot of power to a load-in this case,an electric motor-and then an additional load of incandescent bulbs  ;).

Please pay attention at 2:50


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


 

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