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Author Topic: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)  (Read 15577 times)

Offline webby1

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2017, 08:29:03 PM »
If we have a voltage potential of say 5 volt's,a current limit of say 10mA,and a cap of say 10000uF--what is the only way the cap could be charged to 4 volts quicker?.


Brad

Back to this one :)

You need a simple device,, IMHO,,  A 0uf to 10000uf variable capacitor.  Set the cap to 0uf, connect the source and restrain the self acting tendency of the cap so that it presents a resistance equal to the  mA that you wish to allow to transfer.

Of course you will need to stop the transfer short and then allow the cap to "snap" the rest of the way so that you are ONLY at 4V.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline citfta

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2017, 09:23:42 PM »
Back to this one :)

You need a simple device,, IMHO,,  A 0uf to 10000uf variable capacitor.  Set the cap to 0uf, connect the source and restrain the self acting tendency of the cap so that it presents a resistance equal to the  mA that you wish to allow to transfer.

Of course you will need to stop the transfer short and then allow the cap to "snap" the rest of the way so that you are ONLY at 4V.


What are you talking about here?  What is the self acting tendency of a cap and how do you restrain it to represent a resistance equal to the ma that you wish to allow to transfer?  None of that makes any sense to me.  And how does a cap "snap" the rest of the way to what?  Again, I don't understand what you are talking about.  I have worked in electronics for over 50 years and I have never heard of those terms used when talking about a capacitor.  Do you have some kind of reference for what you are talking about?


Offline webby1

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2017, 10:36:58 PM »
Hmmmm,,,
If you only had the air between the 2 plates of a capacitor and nothing to hold them in place and you charged the cap,, what would happen to the plates.

If you held the plates in position and then charged them and then let go of them,, what would happen to the plates.

A cap that is charged to the source voltage represents how much resistance?  How much current needs to flow to fill the cap up to source voltage,, depends on the capacitance of the cap doesn't it :)

And finally,, the variable cap is still free to allow the plates to move into full coverage,, which increases the capacitance with a fixed charge which then will reduce the voltage of that charge.  It can do this quickly,, depends on all the other things like friction of rotation, windage,, mass of plates,, electric force,, force vector,,,

I went down this path a while ago while discussing a moving slug of dielectric with Verpies.
I wondered why charge the plates and then extract work from the slug?? why not leave the plates connected to the source and let the plates move from a low coverage to a full coverage,, a lot of that input is stored within the cap,, also then you are filling the cap with a very small difference in voltage between the cap and the source,, just seemed like a good way to do it.

Offline citfta

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2017, 11:29:26 PM »
Thanks for the explanation.  I understand now what you meant.  I think what you are describing would more accurately be called an electrostatic motor rather than a capacitor.


Offline webby1

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2017, 12:19:12 AM »
Funny,,

I was just thinking of finding one to link to,, it is in essence an electrostatic motor,, but used for something else :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2017, 12:19:12 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2017, 01:05:09 AM »
What are you talking about here?  What is the self acting tendency of a cap and how do you restrain it to represent a resistance equal to the ma that you wish to allow to transfer?  None of that makes any sense to me.  And how does a cap "snap" the rest of the way to what?  Again, I don't understand what you are talking about.  I have worked in electronics for over 50 years and I have never heard of those terms used when talking about a capacitor.  Do you have some kind of reference for what you are talking about?

I have to agree with you citfta,as i also have no idea what Webby is talking about ?.

I thought my question was simple  ???
The answer being-the only way to charge the cap to 4 volt's faster,is to increase the current flowing into it.

Brad

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2017, 01:07:14 AM »
Here is a thought experiment i posted on OUR


We have a coil with a FWBR attached to it's output leads,so as to rectify to DC.
We then have a cap across the FWBR output,so as to collect the energy produced by the coil.
Lets say that the cap is 100uF.

Test one
We now disconnect one end of the coil from the FWBR,so as we can do an open voltage test.
We move the magnet passed the coil as a set speed,and obtain an open voltage across the coil of say 5 volt's.
We now hook the coil back up to the FWBR,and move the magnet across that coil at the same speed as the open voltage test,and we end up with-say 3 volts across the 100uF cap. So our coil voltage has been limited to 3 volt's-plus the V drop across the FWBR.

Now we replace the 100 uF cap with a 200uF cap.
Now,we know that is we pass the magnet across the coil at the same speed as test one,we will not get 3 volt's across the cap.
BUT-if we pass the magnet across the coil faster,will we be able to get 3 volt's across the 200uF cap ?


Brad

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2017, 01:07:14 AM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2017, 01:10:58 AM »
I take it you are talking about a single pass of the magnet.

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2017, 01:40:56 AM »



Quote
I find that lines of force are a very logical explanation and seem to work well with understanding the field in practice.

Like contour line's on a map,that show elevations --but we know that there really are no such line's on the land mass it self.

Quote
There must be a mechanism that is the producer of the N and S polarities.

Once again,N and S are only a means to indicate direction of flow,much like the suction and delivery sides of a water pump.

Quote
Can you see the fluid? ;)

Do not confuse fluid with liquid  ;)

Quote
There is no finite definition of what makes up a magnetic field.

Well no,there is not.
I have my own theory,which i have shared here on a number of occasions now,where i believe the magnetic field produced by a PM say,is a field of positive and negative charge's-where what you call north maybe a positive charge,and what you call south maybe a negative charge.
Two positive charges(N&N) will appose each other,two negative charges(S&S) will appose each other,but a positive and negative charge(N&S) will attract each other.

An increasing negative charge(S) through a coil will cause an EMF of one polarity across that coil,and an increasing positive charge(N) will cause an EMF of the opposite polarity across that coil-and the opposite polarity for a decrease of each charge.

Quote
How do we know if the fluid idea that replaces the field lines theory isnt just made up so that we may never fully understand magnetic fields for what they really are?

Who has shown any signs of there being !field line's! ,that is not flawed ?.

Quote
Just because we cant see lines of force, it isnt evidence that they do not exist.

The scientific method is-we must prove something exist's,not that it must exist because we cant see it,or cant prove it.
We cant see oxygen,but we can prove it exist's.

Offline webby1

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2017, 02:20:01 AM »
courtesy of verpies,


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2017, 02:20:01 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2017, 05:24:06 AM »


Do not confuse fluid with liquid  ;)


I have my own theory,which i have shared here on a number of occasions now,where i believe the magnetic field produced by a PM say,is a field of positive and negative charge's-where what you call north maybe a positive charge,and what you call south maybe a negative charge.


Hey Brad

I had some of these conversations back nearly 10 yrs ago at another site that was mostly made to study the Whipmag motor. At least that is mostly what was discussed. I see it more fluid and more like air as the field is compressible, most liquids are not. And Air is more considered a fluid than a liquid. I see it like bubbles that only really interact with other bubbles. Some bubbles attract and others repel.

An interesting discussion we had was the possibility of the spinning stator magnets sort of communicating with each other through the bubbles of the rotor magnets. There were 2 diametric mags on bearings that were in sync with the spinning rotor and one stator of the same flicked in reverse after the rotor was spun up and it would actually lock in sync, in reverse with the rotor. It was just a hunch as we were trying all our best to figure the thing out and get one working. But I can imaging that 3 stators possibly being slightly altered in their synced rotor motion by way of the chain of magnets around the rotor. I really enjoyed those days.


Mags
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 08:31:53 AM by Magluvin »

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2017, 12:59:15 PM »
Hey Brad

I had some of these conversations back nearly 10 yrs ago at another site that was mostly made to study the Whipmag motor. At least that is mostly what was discussed. I see it more fluid and more like air as the field is compressible, most liquids are not. And Air is more considered a fluid than a liquid. I see it like bubbles that only really interact with other bubbles. Some bubbles attract and others repel.

An interesting discussion we had was the possibility of the spinning stator magnets sort of communicating with each other through the bubbles of the rotor magnets. There were 2 diametric mags on bearings that were in sync with the spinning rotor and one stator of the same flicked in reverse after the rotor was spun up and it would actually lock in sync, in reverse with the rotor. It was just a hunch as we were trying all our best to figure the thing out and get one working. But I can imaging that 3 stators possibly being slightly altered in their synced rotor motion by way of the chain of magnets around the rotor. I really enjoyed those days.


Mags

Hi Mag's

I dont know much about the Whipmag motor-never followed it,and so,i have very little input i could give on it.

I would like to stick to the discussion about moving a magnet passed a coil faster,in order to gain more current,as i have found a couple of hole's in both verpies and eventually MarkE's conclusion.
There is also obviously a flaw in the test carried out,where a magnet was withdrawn from a super conductive ring at different speed's,and yet made no difference to the current flowing within that SC ring-that makes no sense at all,as the time constant would make no difference to the outcome,other than a quicker withdraw speed should result in a higher current flow within that SC ring.\

We are also discussing it here,and i am hoping verpies will join us there-along with others well versed in the subject at hand.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3485.msg63100;topicseen#msg63100

I think MarkE should have stuck to his gun's,but i feel that he got confused when he tried to add in the shorter time value,as that makes no difference to the outcome regarding the withdrawing of a PM from a SC ring.


Brad


Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2017, 03:46:31 PM »
 author=verpies link=topic=17297.msg507674#msg507674 date=1498491131]



Quote
Please read these links and reply to me if you still want to continue the debate about this subject in this thread.

I am replying,and wish to continue the debate.

Quote
My answer is still "no". The induced current depends on ΔΦ (a change of flux penetrating a coil) not on the speed of that change (or "rate of change") as denoted by dΦ/dt.

I believe the above is incorrect.


Brad

Offline webby1

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2017, 04:06:56 PM »
I think it would be a good thing to define what the "stuff" is.

I am calling current the quantity of charge displaced,, not the qualities of how that charge is displaced.

Volts, Amps and time are the qualities, Coulombs are the quantity.

I am saying that for the same coil seeing the same change in flux it will have the same quantity of charge displaced.

I am saying that the qualities of that displaced charge are dependent, that is, the shorter the time of change the more volts and amps, the longer the time of change the less volts and amps.


Offline webby1

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2017, 04:25:43 PM »
Brad,

I think that in your test you should use a lower capacitance for the faster pass of the magnet.

I think that you should use all 3 values for both the slower speed pass and the higher speed pass.

More data points are a good thing :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2017, 04:25:43 PM »

 

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