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Author Topic: Pulsing A Bifilar Coil And Collecting From It And Various Ways Of Going About It  (Read 10448 times)

Offline evostars

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    • my youtube channel with bifilar pancake coil info
One more thing.... Not sure if this was brought up before...

The total for both coils is 35mh  The sifi individual coil were 13.5mh and the bifi were 9mh each.  The calculated resonance for the bifi using 35mh and 16.4nf is 6.1khz and the scope shot is 12.98khz.  So I recalculated for 9mh which is each windings measurement and we end up with 13.1khz.  So we have to only use the inductance of 1 bifi winding and the total capacitance to calculate the resonance of the bifi. 

Seems like there is an oddity there. Like the 2 bifi windings maybe ignore each others inductance at resonant freq????? ???   new puzzle part?   In series it measures just like the series sifi coil, but apparently at resonance the working inductance of the bifi is 9mh.

Mags
very interesting!
could this have to do with the phase alignment (0 degrees) of the dielectric and magnetic field at its resonant frequency?

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Offline Magluvin

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pulsing the coil, like ringing a bell. short high voltage infinite small rise and fall time, hairpin pulses, like the hammer that rings a bell.

I use this, and highly recomend it:
http://www.rmcybernetics.com/shop/cyber-circuits/pulse-modulator-ocxi
It gives these hairpin pulses, if the impedance of the load is small enough.

Best would be pulsing the bifilar coil, from both ends, with opposite polarity. (discharging a capacitor with both leads at the same time).
It could be done with a relais, charging both leads at one possition, and discharging both leads into the coil at the other possition.

So far these tests have just been apply power and release with a switch.  It gives me so far the ability to see the res freq of the coils. Just showing that some tests do not have to be so sophisticated yet get the job done.

Thanks for the info

Mags


Offline Erfinder

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One word sums it up......damn.....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChV7n0EY2h0




He hits you with a wet phone book....in the face.....with the mother of all nuggets.....find it!


Sweet video TK from the guy who dislikes scopes and proper measurement.....

Offline Magluvin

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very interesting!
could this have to do with the phase alignment (0 degrees) of the dielectric and magnetic field at its resonant frequency?


Im not sure why yet. But so far 2 coils show i can consistently find the res freq by calculating the inter winding capacitance and the inductance of just 1 winding of the bifi coil.  Was conveying this at OUR and TK seems to think its all wrong. Yet the numbers are not wrong. Sooo  we continue on and present the findings here.

To me it seems strange that TK would not find it interesting, and he was the only one there to reply to my posts on this.  Like if the numbers work, then why insist that the only way to find the res freq is by testing and then find the 'actual' capacitance through formulation?  It bugs me that no one seem to find this interesting enough to say hey, lets look at that some more...  Well I am.

I dont want to start argument, but I do want discussion.  If as TK says the only way to find the distributed capacitance is by testing for res freq and then only are we able to account for the capacitance, then I have to argue that.  It is not a capacitance that can be seen nor measured in any way other than testing and formulation, while on the other hand, if we measure the winding to winding capacitance, of which is tangible, and can be isolated and measured, and we use that to calculate the res freq of the coils with just the inductance of 1 winding and come up with very accurate outcomes, then what am I to believe?  Should I believe in the invisible, undetectable capacitance that can only be determined by calculations, or do i believe in the capacitance that is a real thing and consider that the bifi could very well have strange induction properties? Why is it so difficult to imagine that there is an 'invisible' strange induction effect between the 2 windings, yet believe in a capacitance that is not able to be seen nor detected other than through formulation.

Mags


Offline Magluvin

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One word sums it up......damn.....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChV7n0EY2h0




He hits you with a wet phone book....in the face.....with the mother of all nuggets.....find it!


Sweet video TK from the guy who dislikes scopes and proper measurement.....

Im hoping you are referring to using inductive magnetic kick from the small coil to the bifi. ;D   Thats pulsing in my book.  ;)

Mags
 

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Offline Erfinder

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Im hoping you are referring to using inductive magnetic kick from the small coil to the bifi. ;D   Thats pulsing in my book.  ;)

Mags


Look deeper....

Offline Dog-One

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Look deeper....

Augment the wave with an impulse.    :)

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Offline TinselKoala

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Mags, when you break the series connection between the Files of a Tesla Bifilar coil, it is no longer a TBF coil. It has become a Spirinductpacitor. (tm TKLabs). When you reconnect the series connection to make it a TBF coil again, everything changes. You can't measure the one type and then expect its values to apply to the other type.

Get out your capacitor meter and measure the capacitance of the fully connected TBF coil. I doubt if you can get any reading at all from the capacitor meter. Does this mean it has no capacitance? No, of course not, because we know that it does. The way to measure the capacitance of the TBF coil, in contrast to the Spirinductpacitor, is to measure the resonant frequency and then calculate the capacitance.

After all, this is how many L C meters do it, they just do it internally where you can't see it happening.

Offline Magluvin

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Mags, when you break the series connection between the Files of a Tesla Bifilar coil, it is no longer a TBF coil. It has become a Spirinductpacitor. (tm TKLabs). When you reconnect the series connection to make it a TBF coil again, everything changes. You can't measure the one type and then expect its values to apply to the other type.

Get out your capacitor meter and measure the capacitance of the fully connected TBF coil. I doubt if you can get any reading at all from the capacitor meter. Does this mean it has no capacitance? No, of course not, because we know that it does. The way to measure the capacitance of the TBF coil, in contrast to the Spirinductpacitor, is to measure the resonant frequency and then calculate the capacitance.

After all, this is how many L C meters do it, they just do it internally where you can't see it happening.

Im, yes, revisiting the possibility of something special in the bifilar coil. Been thinking clearer than I have in the past couple years, for reasons Ill explain in a thread I made here on cell phones and headaches... So some ideas are coming out on this that I never thought of before and Im going to lay it all out here...

The idea that we can determine the res freq of a bifi by calculating the measured separate winding capacitance and the inductance of just 1 winding is in the least, a tool. For some that may be valuable.

Just like the theory I had on the cap to cap deal that the 50% loss is not due to resistance, and resistance only changes the time it takes to level out the charge, and then I proved it, without a cap on the bench, I have that kinda going on right now with this coil. So Im going with it. :P ;D

That cap to cap 50% loss just 'really' didnt seem right to me, even before I thought more on the possibility of 'if' we could count the electrons being taken from the + of a cap and shoving them into the = of the cap, we could determine the voltage pressure in the cap by that count alone. So is the resistance eating up electrons in the transfer, or would the count be the same in an 'ideal' situation?  And Im kinda at that point in the back of my mind that is saying, something isnt right here with this bifi coil according to what others are claiming, as in there is nothing special there.  Not saying anyone is misconstruing info, just saying there are some things to do that I havnt really seen nor thought of before with this. So thats where this thread is going. ;)   Ill just post it all over here at OU. No interest in this over there really.

Mags
 

Offline Jimboot

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Augment the wave with an impulse.    :)
like a tether ball?

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Offline Erfinder

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Augment the wave with an impulse.    :)


Not what I am referring to Dog-One, however, it is related.  Amplitude modulation, when applicable, should take place at the peak of the wave, not where you indicate.  Understand that the total available energy is at the peak of the induced, there is another point of interest, however, we aren't there yet.....

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Hi all, Hi magluvin, had a thought about the 50-50 capacitor deal.
It is progressively, acting as two batteries in parallel.
The receiving capacitor, is incrementally acting like another voltage source, much like a coil being induced by a magnet.
So, our primary feed capacitor is fighting more and more over time against the receiving capacitors voltage source.
So i agree, it is not due to ohmic resistance.
I wonder if some arrangement can be made in the 50-50 capacitor setup, that would mimic two same polarity magnetic flux sources, entering a ferromagnetic core.
As long as the core is not saturated, it will accept the flux and not fight against the incoming flux.
We need the receiving capacitor to stop fighting against the feeding capacitor.
While writing this, i just had an interesting idea for a rotating generator.
peace love light


Offline Magluvin

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Hi all, Hi magluvin, had a thought about the 50-50 capacitor deal.
It is progressively, acting as two batteries in parallel.
The receiving capacitor, is incrementally acting like another voltage source, much like a coil being induced by a magnet.
So, our primary feed capacitor is fighting more and more over time against the receiving capacitors voltage source.
So i agree, it is not due to ohmic resistance.
I wonder if some arrangement can be made in the 50-50 capacitor setup, that would mimic two same polarity magnetic flux sources, entering a ferromagnetic core.
As long as the core is not saturated, it will accept the flux and not fight against the incoming flux.
We need the receiving capacitor to stop fighting against the feeding capacitor.
While writing this, i just had an interesting idea for a rotating generator.
peace love light

Im not saying there is free energy there in any way. The discussion was whether the 50% energy loss in doing so was due to heat in resistance, no matter the value above 0ohm, or my argument that the resistance heat is not the cause of the 50% loss. The claim on the resistance loss side was that if the caps had no resistance, ideal, then the end result would be 7.07v in each cap from 1 10v cap.  But that is not the case. If we we able to count the electrons, just like we could count water mass/volume in buckets, then just by that count alone we could determine the voltage in the cap, every time.  So resistance doesnt take electrons from the system, it only slows them down in their travels. The ideal caps would still have 5v each as the count of electrons would be the same as a real world circuit.

So where is the loss?  Well in real world with resistance, if you wanted to generate heat, then good, you used that supposed 50% loss and it is now not a loss. But if there was no resistance and no heat, then where did we lose 50%?? I say we lost is stupidly by not making any use of the current during the transfer from cap to cap.

Now if it were ideal again and we used an inductor with say a 0v drop diode, then the transfer would be a complete transfer, the 10v cap would end at 0v and the 0v cap would end at 10v.... We used the current in the cap to cap transfer to energize the inductor(flywheel) and it uses that lost 50% to pump every last bit from the source cap to the receiving cap.  But we can also have that situation in the real world, and minus the diode voltage drop and some loss(not 50% at all) in resistance only due to voltage division in the circuit( of which we dont have in the actual cap to cap mostly due to only 2 components other than resistance).

Anyway, thats that. ;D

Mags

Offline penno64

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A wet phone book -

One pulse in
Multiple pulses out

aka Richard willis - magnacoaster

Pen
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 06:31:00 AM by penno64 »


Offline TinselKoala

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One word sums it up......damn.....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChV7n0EY2h0




He hits you with a wet phone book....in the face.....with the mother of all nuggets.....find it!


Sweet video TK from the guy who dislikes scopes and proper measurement.....

Thank you for posting the link to my video. I hope people find my videos entertaining and educational and informative.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


 

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