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Author Topic: Pulsing A Bifilar Coil And Collecting From It And Various Ways Of Going About It  (Read 8006 times)

Offline Magluvin

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This thread is for as the topic states. We are not necessarily looking at resonance, but it is not excluded. The reason I am putting it here is some of what I have ideas for, the timing of the coils resonance may be an indicator of the timing for the switching...... So in my book, we can see the effect of resonance in the very first peak of the output, 1/4 of a sine wave, even if we kill it off at peak to collect from it.

Will put up some circuits I plan to try later tonight.


Mags

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Offline Magluvin

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Here is the first circuit to test.  It will need to be expanded upon as to how to get it to have a continuous pulse train. So loading the caps should work. Basically a switching supply but testing if there is any advantage collecting from the 2 coils if they are wound bifi or if it were a typical transformer winding. So if a typical tranformer winding is made in comparison, its probably best to not have 1 layer for one winding and the other winding on top as it is as close to being bifi as it gets without winding 1 and 2 side by side. Ive almost got my new bobbins going.  I have issue with thin wall bobbins where the pressure of winding the wire pushes out on the wall and the winding loses its form, messes with you wile winding. ugh  1/4in plexi walls on plexi tube.

Mags


Offline Dog-One

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Some concepts shown in the attached application note.

I took this a step further using a microcontroller and state machine to effectively
charge multiple caps while only a single cap fires.  This gives more time for the
capacitors to come up to full charge and subsequently allows faster firing rate.
The only real drawback is that it takes a lot of isolated switching circuitry and
drivers.

Offline tinman

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Here is the first circuit to test.  It will need to be expanded upon as to how to get it to have a continuous pulse train. So loading the caps should work. Basically a switching supply but testing if there is any advantage collecting from the 2 coils if they are wound bifi or if it were a typical transformer winding. So if a typical tranformer winding is made in comparison, its probably best to not have 1 layer for one winding and the other winding on top as it is as close to being bifi as it gets without winding 1 and 2 side by side. Ive almost got my new bobbins going.  I have issue with thin wall bobbins where the pressure of winding the wire pushes out on the wall and the winding loses its form, messes with you wile winding. ugh  1/4in plexi walls on plexi tube.

Mags

Mags

Try using your BPC in a Joule Thief,and see what happens.


Brad


Offline Magluvin

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Mags

Try using your BPC in a Joule Thief,and see what happens.


Brad

Well a typical JT doesnt collect from both coils as one is only a trigger.

Will be working on it this weekend

Mags

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Offline Jimboot

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Thanks for the thread Mags.

Offline Magluvin

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Thanks Jim

Im hoping that this is where we will find differences between a regular coil or even to say regular transformer windings and bifi.

Brad suggested the JT with a bifi and I say that is in line with a Bedini motor circuit. So they can be tried using a bifi and modified to collect from both coils in comparison to a typically wound JT. Not sure how that may affect the jt operation but Im sure it can be worked out if there are issues of taking from the trigger coil also. And even try a trifi with 1 trigger and 2 output/driver coils etc. I have reason to believe there is a difference and we have to check.

Mags

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Offline tinman

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Well a typical JT doesnt collect from both coils as one is only a trigger.

Will be working on it this weekend

Mags

You dont think ?.

Brad

Offline Magluvin

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You dont think ?.

Brad

In a typical JT, where is the energy from the trigger coil expended?

Mags

Offline tinman

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In a typical JT, where is the energy from the trigger coil expended?

Mags

Through the base/emitter junction of the transistor,and 1k resistor.

During the off time of the transistor,is when the LED lights.
The trigger coil at this time go's negative at the base,and so also at the emitter.
The LED's negative is connected to the emitter of the transistor.

You have a scope Mag's--place your scope across the 1k resistor,and have a look for your self.  ;)

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Offline Magluvin

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Through the base/emitter junction of the transistor,and 1k resistor.

During the off time of the transistor,is when the LED lights.
The trigger coil at this time go's negative at the base,and so also at the emitter.
The LED's negative is connected to the emitter of the transistor.

You have a scope Mag's--place your scope across the 1k resistor,and have a look for your self.  ;)

Ill have to wind a reg and bifi to test the difference.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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When winding 2 coils, a regular winding and a bifi, we should think a bit.  If we just wind 200 turns on 1 bobbin and 100 turns of bifi series connect, then both have the same resistance as the wire for each is equal in total length.  So got to thinking we should center tap the singlefi coil so as to be able to do things that can also be done with the bifi.  Then the issue is if we do a layered singlefi with the tap at 100 turns, there is going to be a difference in the first 100 turns and the second 100 turns as it will take more wire to do the outer 100 turns than the inner 100 turns. So it seems the only way to do it is to have the sifi  ;D as individual coils side by side so each can be of equal wire length just like the bifi.  If there is another way I would welcome the input. Im just wanting to make sure that testing the difference between bifi and sifi that both coils need to be of the same dimensions, number of turns and same length of wire for each conductor. Maybe yawl think Im nuts. But I am :o   

So instead of making the bobbins like I said, I went to ace hdwr and they have a large selection of plastic washers and spacers. It cost just under $20 but it is worth not having to make them.  A bit of sanding and superglue with accelerator and they will be fine bobbins I also sand and smooth the inner edge of the large washers so while trying to get a perfect wind the wire doesnt catch and kink the wire, etc

I use a laser rpm meter set for rotation count and decent variable speed cordless drill to wind. After the first coil is on its last layer the rpm meter gives me the turn count for the next coil.

Mags
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 10:08:34 PM by Magluvin »


Offline Magluvin

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I use Ryobi 18v cordless drills. The larger ones seem to have a min speed as in it can be just a hair jerky between on and off. Just picked up the Ryobi 12v mini drill and it is much better at the low end for more control. $49 1 batt n charger.   Could have used that control when I was winding my ezyspin lasersaber motor. 24 coils, 3200 turns each 42awg.  A few broke before the full wind mostly due to the lack of control of the drill.  Just a tidbit.

Mags

Offline citfta

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I like your idea for counting the turns.  If you want to measure the wire there is an easy way to do that also.  Just go to Lowe's or Harbor Freight and get one of those measuring tools that rolls along on the ground and measures feet.  It is pretty easy to make a jig to guide the wire onto and off the wheel.  I make a single wrap around the wheel.  I just get my wire started onto my spool with a nice long tail and then reset the counter to zero and start winding.  Then I only have to watch  the counter once in while until I get close and then I just stop winding when I hit the number of feet of wire I want.  I recently wound a couple of coils with a trifilar winding using this method.  Just fed all the wires at the same time but really only needed to measure one of the wires as they all went on together.  That way I made sure I got the same amount of wire on both the coils I wound even though they might not have gotten wound exactly the same with some wires overlapping or whatever.

Carroll


Offline Magluvin

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I like your idea for counting the turns.  If you want to measure the wire there is an easy way to do that also.  Just go to Lowe's or Harbor Freight and get one of those measuring tools that rolls along on the ground and measures feet.  It is pretty easy to make a jig to guide the wire onto and off the wheel.  I make a single wrap around the wheel.  I just get my wire started onto my spool with a nice long tail and then reset the counter to zero and start winding.  Then I only have to watch  the counter once in while until I get close and then I just stop winding when I hit the number of feet of wire I want.  I recently wound a couple of coils with a trifilar winding using this method.  Just fed all the wires at the same time but really only needed to measure one of the wires as they all went on together.  That way I made sure I got the same amount of wire on both the coils I wound even though they might not have gotten wound exactly the same with some wires overlapping or whatever.

Carroll

Hey Carrol

It gets tedious at the far ends of the layers to keep it neat and even more so with trifi. Kinda gota flip the 3 at the ends. Im sure u know.

Good ideas.

Mags

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