I'm sure a few people here must have built his stuff but can't be bothered answering. I built one or two of his circuits, but lost interest. Just like the current gizmo being investigated at the moment, there is a lot of investigation and then there will be total disinterest. While stiffler was providing some hints every now and then the thread kept going strong and then died real quick with no apparent reason. It just ran out of steam. I recommend you try the circuits out only if you have a good 100Mhz scope and actually know RF electronics, otherwise you will be amazed , but only by normal, well understood phenomena, that is not OU but none the less interesting.Stiffler is a very smart guy,but got agro real fast when challenged.
He's got a lot of interesting vids but good luck replicating his OU ones,.
recently we had an attack on members here so I have been apprehensive about sharing results from Builders here.I remember you getting one Chetty, you never did anything with it if I recall. Instead of letting it collect dust why don't you sell it to Antimony?
it seems the problem is being addressed .
yes there are many who built Dr.Stiffler's circuits and I myself purchased some
one member in particular did amazing work,I have not spoken with him in Months ,I will see if he wants to contribute here.
I was going to reach out for him On JackNoskills work[ambient harvesting thread here
and I will mention your thread
respectfully
Chet K
If I can find mine your welcome to it ...[since your sharing your experiments here.
Been quite a few years , will scrounge/look around a bit more
I have been told it runs on similar principle as this,
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/avramenkos-plug.113938/
We do have an associate whom I have not spoken to for many months [still have not due to eye surgeries and an inability to read ],
and he is an amazing experimenter and open source builder.
I am feeling better and will try to find his contact and give him a ring in the next few days.
respectfully
Chet
AGRe Dr Stiffler some time ago published a circuit 1 transistor a biffilar mains filter out of an pld PC power unit, some r's and 'c and a tank coil he got it to light a what looked like a 20 or 40 W candle candescent light bulb, never did get a reply from an e-mail on the component values or it's center frequency. Don't know if i have the data or not now but it was on the Daily thread some where.
Not sure about That claim to fame ,I personally don't touch anything "Para" even with the ten foot pole.. :o
One thing I must say...I can't believe all the hidden treasures I'm finding in the Quest for the missing SEC...
Yeesh
still hunting albeit slowly.
Chet
would seem ambient harvesting or even simple methods to create a "potential " need a fresh look.
especially very simple and basic circuits like this one ,would also be good to have methods to establish a Benchmark
for Gain claims.
I suppose we could get some values [answers] to your Email query ,we certainly had enuff fellows who investigated this.
and there is no doubt the quality of experiments and experimenters has grown tremendously in recent years ...at this forum and elsewhere.
Chet
Re Dr Stiffler some time ago published a circuit 1 transistor a biffilar mains filter out of an pld PC power unit, some r's and 'c and a tank coil he got it to light a what looked like a 20 or 40 W candle candescent light bulb, never did get a reply from an e-mail on the component values or it's center frequency. Don't know if i have the data or not now but it was on the Daily thread some where.
AG
antimony
there is no doubt that I still have the original Stiffler SEC
I just need My crystal ball to find where I hid it...[from the misses cleaning hands] :'(
However My Crystal ball is in the shop undergoing a much needed calibration /tune up .
In the mean time I'll keep looking in all the old hiding places...
however we may have others who know where they can get their hands on one ,I'll ask around.
Chet
AG
Not sure about That claim to fame ,I personally don't touch anything "Para" even with the ten foot pole.. :o
One thing I must say...I can't believe all the hidden treasures I'm finding in the Quest for the missing SEC...
Yeesh
still hunting albeit slowly.
Chet
Chet I'm trying to find it, any way have a look at this PDF
http://quanthomme.free.fr/qhsuite/2012News/imagesnews12/PanaceaSECDr.Stiffler.pdf
also thisd might be of interest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JDBYKX5CcU
ag
ag
thanks
I'm trying to get caught up on 8 months of things I could not do...
just ripped the entire roof off the side porch yesterday and gotta get it closed up before the rain comes
hard to do things without the other eye ,a bit scary climbing around without depth perception.
I see Panacea in one of your Links
I wonder what ever happened to Ash ?
been many years since I last spoke with him?
thanks for your contributions
Note to antimony
I did not know that Dr. Stiffler was not feeling well ?
hope he is on the mend...
@ All,
Sorry, for the message above: posted in a wrong topic and I do not know how to delete it!
Was working on a laptop..... :(
Dr Stiffler has obviously: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOq7-WsL5c
Itsu
I am just getting started learning to use my oscilloscope, and i am having trouble with the FFT function.
But you are right. I just got so frustrated with it, but I will figure it out. (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
Thanks.
antimony,
no problem, i think the best way to measure is to use the scope in normal (not FFT) mode and tune for max. signal.
I used a kacher/tesla secondary coil for the measurments in the below video.
I know it resonates around 1Mhz when in a kacher / tesla coil like setup.
In the video i use severall methods to measure the spatial or self resonance of this coil, the normal scope way, the FFT way and the spectrum analyzer way.
Hope it makes some sense now.
video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1H0XktYNjQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1H0XktYNjQ)
Regards Itsu
Looks like a fairly decent function generator to me and i am sure you can do the same test as i did using your coil assumming the spatial or self resonance of your coil is not higher
then the 24Mhz your FG can supply.
I do advice to use an isolation transformer as suggested in the Test Video of that device as it seems poorly isolated from mains (50 or 60Hz), see 12min. into the video.
Not for this test, but when using it on more delicate circuits it could possible damage something.
Itsu
I connected an earth ground to the negative of a SEC and it lit up 9 white LEDs dimly, and i just had to ask you guys if this is something unusual, or whatever?
Maybe this is totally normal, but I was just blown away as this is totally new to me.
Here is a link to a short video.
https://youtu.be/48iKKC3AOZQ
Before Doc needed to use a ground line to connect his psec circuit to the house AC ground. Which we know to have an influence from stray capacitance from the AC grid source. He would not take his circuit and test it outside, just using an earth ground connection. He was very stubborn about this.
And now after all these years he still needs to connect his circuit to something, for it to dimly and partially light the cree board. Not very impressive, nor useful, that I can see.
I was hoping to see better results, by now. Sorry, but it's not very convincing the way he's showing it.And I really doubt that will he take any advice or suggestions from Stefan.
In any case, it's good to see him at it still.
Good news. Mark made a comment on one my videos that we should be able to use a MHz crystal circuit to produce the signal. A light went on in my head. I did this back in 2013 using a super simple 1Mhz crystal and a 22if choke circuit. Check this out-----
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4zEpTpiais
Cheers----Rusty
Good news. Mark made a comment on one my videos that we should be able to use a MHz crystal circuit to produce the signal. A light went on in my head. I did this back in 2013 using a super simple 1Mhz crystal and a 22if choke circuit. Check this out-----
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4zEpTpiais (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4zEpTpiais)
Cheers----Rusty
Am glad the idea resparked an interest Rusty, am sure i'm of more community use researching this than flying paper airplanes around. There do need to be more people looking into the effects, else the few of us could get stuck and throw the towel in.can you give me and details on how to wind the coil ?
Mnsman1 says he's now interested in building and I respect his work too.
But Nick's position is wholly reasonable and anyone else reading the thread - show a device that does something OU and we'll invest time and likely money at it, that's why everyone is here.
A 4 pin crystal is an easier circuit than the 2 pin, but I may well try builds of both.
The lack of a signal generator shouldn't get in the way to replicate the Doc's work.
Oh you are quite right...I tend to build with what I have. If it seems to work then things get more exacting, a route for disaster but works sometimes lolIt's difficult for me to understand the American jargon ;D no offense there.
Anything built away from what's shown can only be pseudo and i've hardly ever referred to something as a replication, unless it's open ended as to what can be used.
The method being the important thing.
It does look like that plethora of fakey fakes doesn't it. I'm thinking that something, somewhere did work as was described and the fake vids are merely copying the look of it blindly for Youtube hits and ad revenue.
TinMan just showed a vid where he used 2x axial inductors as an alternative to an AV plug for the SEC type experiments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyX9nRrym3Y
I decided to have a go at that with bits on the bench.
The inductors are regular wound types, 2 different values. It didn't work with the sig gen, but does work with a SWES (Simple Wireless Electricity System).
15 turns bifilar pancake, S9014, diode from battery negative to Emitter, 1.5V AAA
It's kind of neat how no trailing wire or clip lead is needed and it stands up on the coil.
Standing waves, or the Stiffler loop. "Which is it". Both, perhaps.
Guys:
Watch the Docs latest video, posted today, about that. I think that I know where he's going with all this, but he's still a ways away.
These last few videos are just more tests to see what up with that.
I would like to tag along, but don't have the high end SG.
However, I do have a working Kacher circuit, able to output about 5000v, or higher. As well as a 2Mhz signal generator, that's just collecting dust. I don't know if any of that would really do, here.
We need to know the exact turn count on his coils, including the new one he added just today.
And if it's pvc hot water pipe for his former? Along with any other info needed.
As the Doc would like to see some replication efforts, instead of just comments without hands on, to back things up.
I think that the Doc's been reading my post, and finally is showing the possible effects of the stray AC output on his AV plug/led tester, that he is now showing on his last video today. Although he calls it something else.
So, bottom line is... That there is more to this than meets the eye.
And, we could use his help, here on this thread, as well.
So, Dr. Stiffler, please sign in and give us a hand.
...Hi Slider,
There isn't much cleanliness yet lol, attached is the shot of the 13.4MHz crystal. Looks like I need to adjust the cap values. Transistor is an H945 (had never seen the H variant, so desoldered it from a junker board and threw it in).
I think the point of these latest experiments is to run a bulb from far less power input than would regularly be used. Plus by the very nature of resonance, every bulb would be dimmable. These dollar store ones say 'non dimmable' for example. Also the use of a single wire is far safer than regular mains.
Thanks Gyula,Mr Lidmotor, Hi there I don't suppose there is any hope you have a 27mhz xtal or any chance you can try the circuit at 13.5 mhz or 27mhz just a thought ?
That info really helps. I tried to find my old 13 MHZ crystal oscillator but it is lost somewhere. I ordered some more but I think I might just build up your simple one transistor 13.4MHz crystal circuit and try that instead. That should get the job done Your input here was of great help. Thanks again.
--Rusty
Hi Slider,
....
Gyula - oh it's the simple thing of the Pierce based oscillator output being switched on the negative rail, when we want the improvised signal generator to switch the positive. The 13.4MHz comes out of the circuit, goes into the MOSFET and its Source is to the negative.
But surely for a sig gen we would want the positive signal being switched on and off at that rate. Or, I should say, make the positive signal be what is created and switched by a MOSFET.
I can't find those P channels....but got side-tracked with family matters yesterday.
....
....Well, does Slider or others have the Cree LED board with the heatsink on its back side the Doc uses? (sorry if I missed it and he has...). What forward voltage the LEDs on the board have? do we know? And the board was made for 110 V or 12 V operation? I think these would be good to know for a more succesful replication.
Slider ---You are right there sitting at that frequency in a perfect sine wave. You should be able to replicate the Doc's exact experiment. If not then the question is --why?
---Rusty
Nick - Yep, nowadays I know about AC coupling, but the idea in the vid was to show that no DC voltage was coming through the wall adapter. Simply had no idea to differentiate the 2 sources for knowledgeable folks. It looks odd now I can quite agree.Some crystals are low power for battery applications like in 32678khz series you don't drive them the same way as brute force. The 27khz isn't it a 1/3 over tone for 9mhz if you want 27mhz you might need a tank coil (in some cases) ?
Gyula - Many thanks again for the comprehensive breakdown !
Willy-nilly is something i'm learning to avoid lol, though it is present in many of my videos.
The 27MHz crystal is the only working one here. But that thing is suspect. Direct connections to it with the scope and no coils around still shows the 9MHz.
Yes, it's a distorted sine :)
The 33MHz has a big dent in the top. It was tried and the input LED comes on without blowing, but there's no signal output. I'd imagine the crystal itself is in tiny pieces, but the supporting circuitry is still ok.
The sniffer coil is just a copy of something seen on someone elses video years ago. It does work well for giving the correct frequency. The wave shape can be somewhat distorted and of course, the amplitude increases with proximity toward the source. The person in the video called it a sniffer, so sniffer it got named.
Good point about individually tuning the coils...which will be done.
:) me too !
Just had a look at the crystal and it's a COMCLOK CT31AH
Am not finding info on it, but some quick tests with grounding and Vcc'ing have shown that the in series LED on Vcc brightens when an L3 is connected from the output to it. A 0.1uF cap, similarly connected as a tank, seems to make the scope read either 9MHz or 15MHz, flickering between the two. Am sure the loading is the thing because of the noted changes of waveform too.
Will try the 1K etc ideas of Gyula's from the previous page.
Clothes Asian size is usually 2 yards smaller than US/EU/UK, please compare carefully before ordering.
[/li]If Tri-state pin is logic "1", then oscillator is connected to the output pin. Same happens if Tri-state is left unconnected (there's probably an internal pull-up).
If Tri-state pin is logic "0", then oscillator is not connected to the output pin, and output is floating. The fact that it's floating may be useful if you need to switch between several clock sources. You would enable one of them, and Tri-state the others to prevent contention between multiple outputs.
I found a110v bulb that works pretty good----at least working off a SEC 18. It was too late in the day to try it on my 13MHz crystal oscillator.Some 13.3mhz xtals can be found in old Sony TV remote headphones if any one is interested !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNggjXqgrc0
Lidmotor
Another component that might be useful for this kind of thing is the Hitachi 1SS106 diode.Hi TK,
Lidmotor - Excellent demo !I agree and I hope Lidmotor purchased at least two such LED lamps... 8) and in this case the second one could be run directly from the AC mains and brightnesses could be compared and bring to similar level by the DC input to the oscillator. And of course the AC input to the second bulb could also be measured.
If the rated wattage on that bulb is about 4W then it would seem that your setup trounces it.
Even 18V @ 50mA is only 0.9W
By the sounds of it there is far more light output than would be expected for < 1W at that voltage. The Dollar Tree bulbs have the separate circuitboard and it would be neat to know if they work anywhere near that well on a real SEC-18.
...
....Hi Slider,
I just tried the test circuit from the above post and it still says 9.02MHz !
It must be a very wonky crystal, or, it could be viewed as a highly exacting and tough 9MHz source.
Quick vid here for you Gyula, 37 seconds, showing the test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHXouxpKkxw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHXouxpKkxw)
Well, it is not likely you would find the needed xtal, you know Murphy...Slider, can't you just order a few of the right 13.5MHz ones, might take a few days to get them, but you'd have them. Otherwise it's like batting in the dark. You need to tune your coil (or coils), as well. Like Gyula has mentioned. Other wise the frequency will be more related to the coils that you use, instead what the oscillator frequency provides. Which brings me, again, to just what coils, and frequencies we need to use.
What you show on the boards look like oscillators running at 5V I guess.
https://www.ntt-electronics.com/en/nel-c/company/index.html (https://www.ntt-electronics.com/en/nel-c/company/index.html) no info yet on their products
Gyula - good idea with the Slayer type of setup. But would such a thing actually switch at that speed, their normal free running characteristics put them at around 2 MHz. Will try it anyway :)Well, see this sketch how I thought first to drive a coil (tuned to 27 MHz self resonant frequency) via a tap with your 9 MHz oscillator. But now that you mention the Slayer oscillator, then indeed simpler to make a separate primary coil of 1 to 2 turns and connect it to the oscillator output via a capacitor. I numbered as 1 and 2 where the primary coil could be connected and in this case the bottom of the secondary coil could be left either floating or tied to the negative rail.
...
The focus seems to be on the 13MHz frequency now and Doc's SEC exciters dance in that realm. There are other frequency 'spikes' that work but perhaps not as well??? It is all about resonance. Kinda like good songs but different songs.Agreed. Looks like you are getting somewhere with that bulb. Your capacitive effects are much better than before.
All of us are pursuing this in slightly different ways but along the way we are finding new things. It's great. I have really missed working on these group projects.
That said--- these new leds are perhaps where the magic is. The best way to drive them is where the adventure become really fun.
--- Lidmotor
Thanks TK and that's where I got confused. A lot of mention was made of needing a Sine wave, so the only thing I could think of was to use a MOSFET and then perhaps add another slight tank to smooth out the sharpness of the squarewave.Hi Slider,
Will take the MOSFET route in any case, it's the only one to readily produce the 20V :)
...Hi Slider,
Oh, and, with a 4.5MHz crystal and an L3 on the output, if I move a hand over the coil the signal jumps to 13.3MHz !
It suddenly just flips upward to 3x what it should be. A very handy flip to a possibly more usable frequency.
Hi all, I was inspired by lidmotor to make a version of his latest slayer exciter light.Hi. can you provide schematic of your circuit ?
Thanks for sharing lidmotor.
Used ferrite tube core, one layer 30awg. magnet wire over paper tube, which is over the core.
Not sure of primary turns, made it previously, 24awg. magnet iwre, at least 12 turns, not wound tight.
Using 5 volt usb power supply.
pn424r PNP high voltage transistor, same size as 2n2222.
High speed, higher amp diode off base of transistor.
Two 1n4148 diodes off one end of 30awg. wire, into led bulb, any other diodes, meaning larger, cuased higher amp draw and less light output.
100 Kohm base resistor.
Feit ribbon led bulb, 3.6 watt, 40 watt equivalent, warm white, with circuitry removed.
Picture is blooming a bit, though it is fairly bright for 1/2 watt input, burns into eyes if you look at it, which i don't suggest.
5.06 volts, 110 milliamp input or .55 watts.
The transistor is only warm, not hot.
Will try and tweak for more brightness and efficiency.
peace love light :)
Hi all, Hi lidmotor, it is one of those filament style led bulbs from Feit.thanks for reply. so primary is 19 turns and secondary is 40 turns ?
Though I can't seem to find the exact version i bought awhile ago, a 2 pack of 40 watt equivalent.
It is printed on the bulb, 3.6 watt input at 450 lumens, this link is similar, https://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-Electric-40-Watt-Equivalent-A15-Dimmable-Filament-LED-90-CRI-Clear-Glass-Light-Bulb-Soft-White-2-Pack-BPA1540927CAFIL-2-RP/304112237 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-Electric-40-Watt-Equivalent-A15-Dimmable-Filament-LED-90-CRI-Clear-Glass-Light-Bulb-Soft-White-2-Pack-BPA1540927CAFIL-2-RP/304112237)
,though it uses more power.
I would say, most of these filament style will work well, since I think they use a higher voltage without the circuitry.
It's not too difficult to remove the small circuit board from bottom of these bulbs, though i may have used a heat gun to loosen the glue holding base to glass bulb.
Hi erfandl, here is the circuit drawing.
peace love light :)
Edit: just checked the 24awg, magnet wire primary turns, 19 turns, wrapped together tight, though is not tight on top of other coil.
Going to make a tighter wind primary with double the turns, 40 turns and compare, then can remove turns and compare also.
Hi all, thanks for the kind words lidmotor.thanks so much :D
Hi erfandl, the original primary turns are 19, though the 30 awg. magnet wire secondary is one full layer over the 3-1/2" core former, I didn't count secondary turns.
Also, the primary is taped tight on at least two sides, to get the wire strands tighter together and still allow the primary coil to slide on top of the secondary for tuning.
peace love light
....Okay on the 4 ribbons instead of 3: this does not matter here and does not change anything you have found or I have said on them so far, except for the number of LEDs in one ribbon may then be only 9 in series and the 4 ribbons are also in series. What is needed for the original LED bulb manufactured for 120 V AC is to use as many LEDs as needed by summing up their forward voltage drops to make up closely for the full wave rectified and possibly also filtered mains input amplitude, to get the just needed LED current hence specified bulb power.
Edit: gyulasun, the led bulb has 4 ribbons and still, it could be a useful circuit for a capacitor dumping system, i think.
Skywatcher123 - first of all let me apologise for getting your name wrong in the video below...am new here ???Hi slider. is it modified version of tesla coil ?
I had a look at your multi-turn Primary idea and must say that it's a great idea !
36 turns of the same 30AWG as the main coil. But the main coil is split in half as another difference.
The DMM seems to have messed up though, it reports 19.5mA at 5V 8)
Half decent light out of the 8W DT bulb, the 12 diode ring similar to Dr. Stiffler's build runs really really well. The pseudo SFM works wirelessly and the wireless field is all over the table and to a good height above it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6uVwFaCDeg
...Hi SkyWatcher,
So i tried 80 turns of 30awg. as primary and was not very impressed, at least with the one wire
- av plug results at around 11.6 volt range input.Then i was thinking and decided to weigh each primary air coil.
The 80 turn - 30 awg. weighs 4 grams.
The 40 turn - 24awg. weighs 7 grams.
The 80 turn - 24awg. weighs 15 grams.
The higher mass primary air coil is more efficient, this test and pictures used the 80 turn 24awg. primary coil.
Was able to light 1 of the led bulbs to about the same brightness as the previous test at .55 watts input,
though only using 134 milliwatts at 11.5 milliamps at 11.67 volts.Seems interesting.
peace love light :)
Lidmotor: Just use paint to resize the image to less than 1500 wide. That's what I do on Windows 10, without needing any other photo software.Hi Nick,
...
...I think Slider posted a link to a good crystal checker and if your crystal oscillates then you can estimate the frequency
BTW: I can't read the numbers on the crystal, I can see three zereos, 000, at the end, first number has solder on it.
...
....Hi Lidmotor,
Here is a test picture from this computer--
...Hi SkyWatcher,
Edit: ok, i just finished winding the new magnet wire coil, it is bifilar 24awg. magnet wire, strands are in parallel at 300 milliohms and 31 grams weight, which includes a little electrical tape, that is used to tighten the windings together.
....Hi Slider,
I've contacted the seller via Amazon, requesting a replacement module.
Hi Erfandl,thanks Gyula I found 2N3906 in my area 8)
If you wish to use also a pnp type replacement, then out of the many types there is the 2N3906 which may be available for you. These are the data sheets for it, many manufacturers produce it:
http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/2/N/3/9/2N3906.shtml (http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/2/N/3/9/2N3906.shtml) If you have RS Components, Mouser, Digikey, Futurlec or similar vendors, then I can look up some more types for you from the available offers. The PN4248 is a general purpose, low noise audio transistor, the latter feature is not needed here. There are two parameters that need attention for a substitute type: low saturation collector-emitter voltage and a decent hFE of 100 or higher and perhaps you can find such locally.
Gyula
Slider--- I was thinking of using a transistor to isolate the function generator. I will probably try a fast diode and a cap on the way to the transistor base. I plan on just lighting up a few leds so maybe that is not even needed. I would hate to zap the thing in the first 5 minutes.
Good news today! I built up that simple one transistor crystal circuit you showed a ways back and got it to work using a 7MHz 2 pin crystal. I had to fiddle around with cap values and several different L3 coils but finally got it light leds down one wire. Pretty cool. Ran it off a 9v battery. I will play around with the neat little circuit more tomorrow. I wish more people would try it.
---Lidmotor
end quote.
Lidmotor: I am also looking into building a crystal oscillator circuit. I've pulled out several crystals from my junk pile.
So, I have the following crystal ready to test, the 3.5k, 4K, 7,2K, 8k, and the closest to the 13.45K that the Doc tunes to, is a 12k crystal. I also have a 20k, if needed, and I can further tune the crystal oscillator by the ferrite rod inside the Tesla secondary coil.
However, as Gyula mentioned, the main L3 type coil needs to be at the same frequency as the running oscillator frequency for the best effects. This I will try to do afterwards.
I have also managed to make the 120v reflector led bulb that I had previously shown a picture of, to light by capacitance. By placing the two diodes on it, and placing the whole bulb on an aluminum base, so that it lights up now. May not work as well as the right led bulb with the aluminum back plate, but it lights up pretty well, in any case. So, I'm looking into just what crystal oscillator circuit to use, one the can output enough power to properly light the bulb(s).
Any ideas are welcome...
BTW: I have never had any problems with my 2MHz SG being affected by HV, it's old, but still works fine. It's just too low powered for this project, as the output has to be able to light neon bulbs when connected to an oscillator, not just leds.
Here's some pics of the bulbs that I'm using. I got the round led 120v reflector spot light bulb to light off of capacitance. It's ready for the crystal oscillator circuit.Hi NickZ. is any schematic of crystal oscillator circuit ?
The filament bulb lights the brightest, (bang to the buck), but I can only make it light with a single wire connection to it, to one side of the filaments. It's a 40w equilavent, and it lights quite bright.
Hi NickZ. is any schematic of crystal oscillator circuit ?It was given before, but here's my version of the Simple Crystal Oscillator. I used a BC337-25 transistor, also tested it with a VHF transistor, MPSH10, which also worked well but didn't have the amplitude of the 337. I think just about any NPN would work in this circuit.
thanks
It was given before, but here's my version of the Simple Crystal Oscillator. I used a BC337-25 transistor, also tested it with a VHF transistor, MPSH10, which also worked well but didn't have the amplitude of the 337. I think just about any NPN would work in this circuit.What do you mean the the 74 series chip is slow ? how slow here i have a CMOS chip CD4060 with a 13.4Mhz chip it's fast I found this
The original circuit made a signal but didn't have the ability to really drive anything. I added a 74c14 hex Schmitt trigger inverter and ran the SCO's output through 3 of the inverter stages, which helped to square up the signal and make it capable of actually driving some small load (like a mosfet driver or a transistor). The inverter is pretty slow though so this version only works best for lower frequencies. I also added some bulk capacitance at the power entry point, which also helped to clean up the waveforms, both before and after the Schmitt trigger inverter stages.
Yellow is SCO output before Schmitt trigger stages, blue is after. Input is about 6.5 volts from a regulated PSU.
It was given before, but here's my version of the Simple Crystal Oscillator. I used a BC337-25 transistor, also tested it with a VHF transistor, MPSH10, which also worked well but didn't have the amplitude of the 337. I think just about any NPN would work in this circuit.thanks for reply. what the number of quartz ? is output must be shorted together ?
The original circuit made a signal but didn't have the ability to really drive anything. I added a 74c14 hex Schmitt trigger inverter and ran the SCO's output through 3 of the inverter stages, which helped to square up the signal and make it capable of actually driving some small load (like a mosfet driver or a transistor). The inverter is pretty slow though so this version only works best for lower frequencies. I also added some bulk capacitance at the power entry point, which also helped to clean up the waveforms, both before and after the Schmitt trigger inverter stages.
Yellow is SCO output before Schmitt trigger stages, blue is after. Input is about 6.5 volts from a regulated PSU.
What do you mean the the 74 series chip is slow ? how slow here i have a CMOS chip CD4060 with a 13.4Mhz chip it's fast I found thisThat scopeshot is "scope abuse". Your signal is so clipped that the risetime measurement is likely bogus. Please repeat the test with the entire signal on the screen vertically, not clipped.
in looking for 432hz multiples up to 1.3 mhz region, even a 4011 will clap away at 15mhz easy all with a 8volt power rail, you might not be so lucky
with if using older stock.
This old bulb of Nick's they remind me of some of the old junk that worked of DC from years a go now you can get them in hard ware stores allover.
I was called a Beretta voltage dropper. I had a knowledgeable grandfather if any ones asking.
AG
thanks for reply. what the number of quartz ?For that test I used a 3.579545 MHz crystal. I have tested the circuit at up to over 18 MHz.
is output must be shorted together ?thanksWhat? I don't understand what you mean. No, the output is not shorted together, what makes you think that?
What do you mean the the 74 series chip is slow ? how slow here i have a CMOS chip CD4060 with a 13.4Mhz chip it's fast I found thisI used a 74C14 which is not fast enough for 18 MHz . I might have some 74AC14 chips somewhere, which have a much faster risetime (otoo 10 ns) which may allow operation at higher frequencies. Pain in butt to change the chip though because of the way I mounted it. Oh well.
in looking for 432hz multiples up to 1.3 mhz region, even a 4011 will clap away at 15mhz easy all with a 8volt power rail, you might not be so lucky
with if using older stock.
This old bulb of Nick's they remind me of some of the old junk that worked of DC from years a go now you can get them in hard ware stores allover.
I was called a Beretta voltage dropper. I had a knowledgeable grandfather if any ones asking.
AG
I used a 74C14 which is not fast enough for 18 MHz . I might have some 74AC14 chips somewhere, which have a much faster risetime (otoo 10 ns) which may allow operation at higher frequencies. Pain in butt to change the chip though because of the way I mounted it. Oh well.Thought I would try it with a 16 or 20 Mhz to see where it fell over but no it still works and a 27mhz surely not but no it still works, TI for you
The magic comes out of the woodworkThat's a very neat change to the circuit, having the 1000uH instead of a resistor.
Lidmotor - classic line of the day, in a good way:That's a very neat change to the circuit, having the 1000uH instead of a resistor.Yes, I think I'll try to drive a highspeed mosfet driver with it. If that works out, then I'll arrange a higher voltage supply for a mosfet as the final output stage.
I have a 13.5225 2 pin and it's as dead as an Icelandic rhinoceros for wireless output.
So, without an inductance meter I need to wind an exact Dr. Stiffler L3. Then presumably take a turn off, add a turn, until all the magic springs forth.
TK - Your drive though should still be fine for switching an amplifier stage ?
It's good to know which ones are indeed speedy enough. Most of my chips are 1980's, so am missing more modern variants.
All--- I tried that simple crystal oscillator circuit out with a 13.56 MHz crystal and it was pretty spectacular. I ran it on a 9v battery and changed the 1K feed resistor to a 1000uH choke. Here is the video of it:That's pretty spectacular all right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqsVQPLXi3E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqsVQPLXi3E)
--Lidmotor
Well there must be some power used by the circuit and one might think the crystal would use some...so try taking the crystal out.Hi slider thanks for share. is this point in the blow picture must be connected together ?
;)
That's what I did, along with changing the 1K resistor to a 1000uH axial inductor, following Lidmotor's lead.
Ladies and gents, we have a new Exciter circuit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE4uvw1JBb0
I designed a small Colpitts 6.7 Mhz it draws 2 mA.
The intended to be used with 6.7 Mhz crystal then a doubler 2nd stage.
How much volts do you useI use 12 volt. below schematic use 1 kohm resistor
where is the 1000 uH coil
and for what you use 1 K ohm resistor
Erfandithanks for reply. ok I want to make my own L3 coil how many turn is good ? 80 ?
Hi looking at your coil i must say it looks like a low frequency Tesla coil, you mention it is from an audible Tesla application.
I think the reason you might be getting nothing is because the coils natural frequency is cutting off in the audio range,
if you used a SG and a scope you would be able to see this phenomena on the scope screen, can I suggest you re wind it
as per L3 characteristics.
Hope this helps.
AG
Hi erfandl,thanks for reply. OK I understand. I checked the voltage the base voltage is 0.675 volt and collector voltage is 2.352
I mean use 47 uH choke coil instead of the 1 kOhm collector resistor (or instead of 1000 uH choke). You can even make such choke by winding at least 40-50 turns of enameled wire into a toroidal core or ferrite bead, found in discarded PC power supplies or in PC monitors mains supply etc
Have you checked the DC voltages?
Gyula
Yes, you can use it. Thanks for the DC voltage values. Did you find any mV in AC voltage mode? I know that voltage meters are useful at 50-60 Hz sinusoidal frequencies but some ten mV to some 100 mV indication in AC mode could be expected from them if the oscillator works. Compare the AC voltages when the crystal is removed versus when in place.thanks. I used that 1000 uh coil. the AC voltage from supply ground and tesla coil about 7 volt and frequency is 900 hertz.
Well, please do not connect the air coil to the collector of the crystal oscillator circuit, ok? Just check the AC voltage between the negative ground and the base and between the negative ground and collector, first without the crystal and then with the crystal in place, ok? Check this with the 1 kOhm resistor too and also with the 1000 uH choke instead of the 1 kOhm.thanks so much for reply. OK :D. no I don't have oscilloscope and signal generator or function :(
Your mesured DC voltage of 0.675 V between the base and emitter that is correct and the collector voltage of 2.35 V versus the emitter is also good when the 1 kOhm collector resistance is used but ideally 6 V DC would be the best value there if your supply voltage is 12 V. You could use a 470 kOhm trimmer potmeter (or a 220 kOhm in series with the 100 kOhm resistor) to adjust the 6 V DC between the collector-emitter when the crystal and the coil is removed and you have the 1 kOhm collector resistor instead of the choke coil. The 6 V DC level would insure the transistor is biased for the most linear operational point and oscillating signal would have the least distortion.
You do not have a oscilloscope but a digital multimeter, is this so? Do you have a function or signal generator, even with a low level output?
:DAll ---I did a video explaining this crystal circuit exciter build better and specifically how I am making that air core coil. I just wrap stiff paper on a AA battery, wrap the length of the battery with 26ga magnet wire, take the battery out, and that is it. I don't count the turns or measure the inductance. A ferrite rod moved in and out does the fine tuning. The coil is based on Dr. Stiffler's SEC 18 'L3' but is longer.Hi lidmotor thanks for sharing your circuit. the number of coil info in the circuit is Illegible. whats that number ?
I soldered up a replication of the initial bread board version taking care to put the components on the board in about the same location. It worked fine but the device is sensitive capacitive influence. Tuning is a bit touchy.
I show the second unit driving the first unit wirelessly here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJhdZNIUOiI
Cheers,
Lidmotor
PS----Gyula I think your idea about using a 'wiper' style coil for tuning like in a simple Crystal Radio might work. I might try that today. As far as the 1000mh choke I did get mine to run on different values and styles so building your own should not be a problem. The dynamic of these open ended exciters goes beyond a simple running oscillator and EVERTHING in the local area has some effect on it -- including the human sitting in front of it. The types of components and their position in relationship to each other matter. I was very worried that I was not going to replicate my original bread board setup because of the capacitance in the bread board itself. I got lucky. It is like all the things in the local are talking to one other when the thing pops into resonance. In the above video I could tune the whole area in and out of resonance but tuning the second unit that was driving the pulse motor.
Thanks for the report. It looks like your crystal oscillator works and it works better with the choke coil than with the 1 kOhm resistor in the collector which is okay. Now just use the choke coil and you can focus on making the air coil resonant at 13.56 MHz.thanks. today I build the coil from lidmotor video. I buying a new 13.56 mhz crystal but yet the circuit cannot be working :( the ferite rod nothing doing when insert it in coil.
Member Lidmotor's above video shows a coil construction to approach resonance at 13.56 MHz when the coil is loaded and tuned with a ferrite rod. Notice that with ferrite tuning you reduce the air core coil resonance frequency (it is like you would increase the number of turns),
Gyula
thanks. today I build the coil from lidmotor video. I buying a new 13.56 mhz crystal but yet the circuit cannot be working :( the ferite rod nothing doing when insert it in coil.
erlandl,yes that's connected to the base ( middle leg )
are you sure your bottom lead of the 100K resistor is attached to the base (middle) leg of the transistor?
On the pictures it looks like its attached to the ground/emitter part of the circuit.
Itsu
Hi Erfandl,thanks gyula. Im do it and LED is turning on. but cannot turning an 4 watt LED like lidmotor
Would like to ask what is your indicator for seeing whether the oscillator works or not, with this new coil?
Do you have an AV diode plug connected to the free end of the air coil and the diodes feed a LED?
You can use such "sniffer" AV plug holding in your hand like Slider shows in his above picture. It should indicate also at the collector in itself if you touch the common diodes point of the AV plug to the collector.
Gyula
Okay, very good. Do you have to use the ferrite rod for fine tuning to get the brightness you show now? Is this the maximum brightness you can get? Try to use several such white LEDs in series too.Hmm. thanks for helping me in this project. I solved the problem with a 1000 uh Barrel inductor. the 7 watt LED have a good brightness at 9 volt @ 67.6 mAh - 608.4 mW
Hmm. thanks for helping me in this project. I solved the problem with a 1000 uh Barrel inductor. the 7 watt LED have a good brightness at 9 volt @ 67.6 mAh - 608.4 mW
Hi Erfandl,thanks. OK I will order the 100k and 220k trimmer for testing and share the result when received. yes I used ferrite rod in the coil. Unfortunately, I do not have an oscilloscope that measures the coil frequency :( if I had an oscilloscope, the result would be better than that :'(
Very good progress! It is good to suspect the behaviour of choke coils and now you chose a good type for the job. Some adjustments you can still make would be to use a 100k or 220 kOHm trimmer potmeter to replace the 100 kOhm base resistor and adjust for the best brightness possible by that too. Make sure to connect at least a 10 kOhm resistor in series with the trimmer potmeter to prevent excess base current when the potmeter is approaching to the very low resistance values, ok? Try to wrap up the transistor body into a heat sink like metal cylinder to help conduct heat away from it.
A question: I cannot see it clearly from your picture: Do you have a ferrite rod in the coil now?
Gyula
PS The battery symbol is lit on the display of your DMM, it needs changing soon. ::)
You need not order both trimmer pots, only say the 220 kOhm and a 10 kOhm resistor you put in series with it.OK thanks. Yes, I'm just 2mm of ferrite core into the coil not all.
Regarding the ferrite rod, I suggest to use more turns for the coil to make self inductance higher in itself so that the ferrite rod should not be needed to plug into the coil fully or even half way: just a little, say only 2-3 mm to get the highest brigtness. I mention this because at 13-14 MHz, good quality ferrite material is needed, otherwise losses are inherently introduced into the coil and brightness suffers. Unless you are fully aware of your ferrite specifications, manufactured for the 10-20 MHz range.
Gyula
Just another +1 of congrats erfandl..that must have been a frustrating journey.thanks slider ;D
But now, that light output is well worth it and surpasses my own efforts with the Dollar Tree bulb easily.
I need a different bulb ;D
Gyula -----I made one of those wiper coils for the crystal circuit and it worked. It is very touchy because of how we are using it. If you get your hand near it that changes the local capacitance which throw things off. You have to adjust it in small increments then get away from it to see what happens. Fine tuning can be done with a ferrite rod if you need to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZjAKK38UIA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZjAKK38UIA)
--Lidmotor
Hi Itsu,
I have pondered on this and the first thing would be to utilize resonant voltage increase of tuned LC circuits right already in the xtal oscillator itself as a first step.
I mean to place a tapped LC circuit into the collector of the xtal oscillator to step up the 13.56 MHz signal to as high as possible with such transformation. See this LC circuit how I mean:
https://overunity.com/17249/dr-ronald-stiffler-sec-technology/msg522125/#msg522125 (https://overunity.com/17249/dr-ronald-stiffler-sec-technology/msg522125/#msg522125) The oscillator circuit can remain the same you have now, just remove the 1 kOHm or the choke coil from the collector and insert the LC tank there. The L coil here could be wound on an RF toroidal core you may have from Amidon to have high Q for the tank.
Another possibility is to use the air core coil itself (called here as L3) to step up resonantly the 13.56 MHz collector current to a relatively 'high' voltage. See this sketch here:
https://overunity.com/17249/dr-ronald-stiffler-sec-technology/msg522451/#msg522451 (https://overunity.com/17249/dr-ronald-stiffler-sec-technology/msg522451/#msg522451)
What I mean here is this: coil wire #1 would go directly to supply voltage positive and coil tap #2 would go directly to the collector of the transistor. The air core coil should also resonate at 13.56 MHz, basically this is very similar to the previous tapped LC tank suggestion, just the C is supplied by the air coil self capacitance and by the capacitive load the AV plug will represent with the LEDs too. This latter 'autotransformer' is more difficult to tune to resonance than the LC tank on the toroid, due to the fully open L air coil.
If these resonant RF voltage up-transformer methods prove useless in the end, then we can ponder on further solutions... 8)
Gyula
Hi Itsu,
Very good, thanks for your efforts. Here are some refinements if I may, to get a 'nicer' waveform and perhaps less heat for the transistor.
May I suggest to reduce the number of turns from 26 to only 18 and make a tap at 4 turns?
From this link http://toroids.info/T200-2.php (http://toroids.info/T200-2.php) the AL value is about 12 for this core and 26 turns gives 8.1 uH while we need only around 4 uH, this is approached by 18 turns to get 3.8 uH. I mention this because the scope probe may have 15 pF and your 30 pF trimmer cap is turned fully out, very likely an even smaller than 15 pF overall tuning cap would be needed to tune the tank to resonance with the present 26 turns. Notice that you may have to retune the trimmer cap when connecting an air coil via a single wire.
And raising the number of turns for the tap from 2 to 4 would increase collector impedance, hence less AC collector current could flow, reducing dissipation. This may involve less peak to peak RF voltage across the tank due to the smaller transformation ratio, maybe an acceptable compromise.
But anyway, now you have roughly 50-55 Vpp voltage across the relatively high LC tank impedance and this would drive an air core coil (tuned also to 13.56 MHz) via a single wire nicely I suppose. Then the resonant air core coil may have an even higher oscillating amplitude to feed a 230V LED via AV plug (maybe you do not have a 120 V LED). Try to connect (at least) two-two 1N4148 diodes in series to increase their reverse voltage rating.
A question: what is actual DC voltage feeding the oscillator? (due to the voltage drop across the 5 k trimmer pot)
Edit: if you have an L meter, please check the 26 turns inductance., to learn about reality.
Thanks, Gyula
Hi Itsu,
Very nice sinewave and huge peak to peak value across the tank, very good job with the LC tank, thanks for all your efforts.
Probably a 120V LED array would already give even higher brightness with this setup (I know you do not have and no problem).
Maybe the transistor is still warming up if the circuit is run for several minutes, a certain part of the 2.18 W input power surely heats it up. It is sure that playing with the tap position and use 5 or 6 turns for the tap can further improve the matching between the collector and the LC tank (hence the possibility of reducing dissipation), when L3 is also in place with its LED load, this is a dynamic interaction. I just notice these, I am not asking you to refine this matching any further, what you have achieved is very fine already.
May I ask you to show the voltage waveform on the collector of the transistor with respect to the negative ground? I am curious where are the lower peaks of the collector voltage, how close they approach the negative rail? (please use DC coupling on the scope input)
You surely checked somehow whether coil L3 is fully in resonance at 13.56 MHz when the LED is attached?
One more thing what may be interesting: whether there is a difference in brightness when you drive the same LED array in this same setup with the AV plug from the L3 coil and not with the back plate capacitive coupling?
When driving the LEDs with the AV plug and you place a puffer capacitor across the DC output of the AV diodes (i.e. across the LED strip input), then the DC voltage could be measured, hence the AC voltage could be deduced at the top of L3 (I know the top of L3 is floating AC wise.) A 22 or 47 uF 250V capacitor may be enough.
(I assume that in this present test shown in the photo the center point of the two AV plug diodes is floating, right?)
It is possible though that in the shown setup if you attach a short piece of wire to the center of the two diodes, or you simply touch it by finger, then the brightness may increase (similarly when the Doc shows this with a Alu mass touching the diodes point).
If you recall the Doc showed the diodes common point was connected to the negative supply rail in one of his videos, when thhis LED array was simply placed very close to his L3 coil. If you test the diodes point connection to the negative, then the retuning of L3 may be needed because the capacitive coupling to the top of L3 would become higher, causing some resonance detuning in L3. If this happens, you may need to remove 1 or 2 turns from L3.
Thanks,
Gyula
erfandl and All-----I was able to get this 'Crystal Circuit Exciter' to stay running at 20 volts (the voltage Dr. Stiffler used on his signal generator experiments). The led array I am using came on super bright. At that brightness be careful about looking directly at it. I saw spots after doing this experiment. Here is the short video of this thing at 20v. The camera dimmed the light appearance down. It is much brighter than it appears here.thanks lidmotor.OK I using an plastic part removed from LED light to protecting eyes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW4RqHaZa-Q
--Lidmotor
PS---Slider I just ordered one of those voltage AND amperage meters off EBay. We need to know the wattage or this experiment is somewhat meaningless. The field 'excitation' messes with the electronic meters though and I really don't trust them. Measuring the voltage drop across a resistor is a better way. I will say this ---- That little MPSA06 didn't blow up producing a huge amount of light. Interesting.
All----I finally got my cheap function generator in the mail and got it to do a true replication of Dr. Stiffler's experiment. The
Wiper Coil' I made was critical in getting this to work at 13MHz. This effect does work at other frequencies depending on what coil you choose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCR3HoYeuCA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCR3HoYeuCA)
----Lidmotor
All----I finally got my cheap function generator in the mail and got it to do a true replication of Dr. Stiffler's experiment. The
Wiper Coil' I made was critical in getting this to work at 13MHz. This effect does work at other frequencies depending on what coil you choose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCR3HoYeuCA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCR3HoYeuCA)
----Lidmotor
Hi Itsu,
To check the correct tuning of the toroidal tank, you could use say a 2-3 turn loose coupling coil wound on the toroid to monitor the amplitude on the oscilloscope when tuning the trimmer capacitor for maximum, this way you can remove the probe self capacitance from the tank and the tuning can be correct also for the collector-emitter waveform test.
I suspect when the 5 kOhm trimmer pot has a certain value other than full zero Ohm, the voltage drop across it changes hence the transistor matching to the tank (operational point) also changes when the loading effect of L3 appears at the collector as you tune L3 to resonance, this may cause what you find. You may wish to use say only 5 - 7 V supply instead of the 12 V battery for a test to see whether this strange behavior develops then (no 5 kOhm or just short circuit it).
Regarding the brigthness getting less when you tune L3 to 13.56 MHz from its own frequency of 15 MHz may indicate the ferrite is already a bit lossy at that frequency? (unless you know its specifications but this is minor issue at present)
Thanks for your kindness.
Gyula
Very informative Itsu, thanks.Excellent. Now you can use the scope's Cursors in manual mode to get the precise frequencies of the peaks in the FFT.
I've found that the several builds now of this sort of circuit have worked with 18pF to 30pF caps across the Emitter/Collector. Am not using a toroid such as you have, which I can only think of that would cause that difference.
Is there any chance it could be the permeability values of the toroid itself ?
Have done some adjusting and now am more familiar with the FFT function of the scope.
It's not to the point yet of measuring the actual frequency harmonics, but they are much more visible and their positions can be better assessed.
In this example shot, am looking at the output of a 10MHz crystal. The peaks of 10MHz, 20MHz, 40MHz and 50MHz can be seen, with 30MHz not as prominent.
Gyula - 4 pin crystal, but meaning to draw comparison to a frequency locked in by a crystal, rather than a free running circuit.
Hi Itsu,
Thanks for the video and all your efforts.
From your earlier posts I understood (maybe I misunderstood) the 40 MHz appears only when the 5 kOhm trimmer pot reduces the 12V supply voltage to the oscillator, you did not write that you set the variable cap towards its minimum value. Now you showed you detuned the toroidal tank with the 6 to 60 pF variable capacitor and I assume the 40 MHz operation occured when you detuned the tank also yesterday, right?
The explanation for the 40 MHz operation is this: When there is no resonant collector impedance at 13.5 MHz because the tank is detuned from 13.5 MHz towards the higher frequencies, then the transistor simply cannot amplify high enough at the base frequency any more but it can amplify with enough gain near the 3rd harmonic because the tank impedance has become higher somewhere in the 25-40 MHz range the 6-8 pF variable cap set its resonance, so the crystal jumped to overtone mode. This is all. We can step over this 'issue'.
I think the many harmonics appear because probably the tap is not so good for the transistor operational point when reduced supply voltage feeds the collector. For the BC337-40 probably a higher than 100 kOhm base resistor would be better, think of the base current calculation. But no need to deal with this because:
I think now if you wish to continue tinkering with this circuit, a better transistor type should be obtained. Then it could be mounted on a heat sink if needed and will not blow from the higher peak collector voltages either.
Thanks, Gyula
Simple Tesla coil L1 Pri 1mhry with L2 3 turns 0.4uh, with NE555 driving with very narrow pulse drive from current driver and FET at 60khzHi AG,
Tesla coil is not in any kind of resonance at all. Led display is verry bright with pencil earth to garden earth.
AG
Hi AG,The mini Tesla coil resonance 1.2 mhz it's 8hz, so is 60khz but some peeks along the line will be higher than others. The NE555 can only go so
Just a curious question: how do you know that one of the harmonics of the narrow 60 kHz pulses do not just hit coil resonance?
IF you could change the 60 kHz frequency by a potmeter at the NE555 and sweep up and down say 20 - 30 kHz and see the change in brightness, that would be a good test for that. OR you may have done so? 8)
I think though that your aim was mainly to show an increase in brightness when a kind of ground is introduced to the bottom of the load which is fed from the top of the coil.
Thanks, Gyula
The mini Tesla coil resonance 1.2 mhz it's 8hz, so is 60khz but some peeks along the line will be higher than others. The NE555 can only go so
far, with the spike width i'm using.
The idea might be better suited if the wingdings (wire length) was tuned to say 1/8 wave i/4 wave ect and use a higher narrow voltage spike lest wast.
Yes I think so. A rectangular and narrow pulse is full of harmonics. and the 20th or the 19th or the 21th (or whichever nearby) harmonic is amplified by the relatively high Q of the coil, even if it is top loaded by the LED.
...
Gyula is that it, the pulse width harvesting all the harmonic energy ?
Hi AG,every Tesla coil i make, once i connect or have an earth near by if I divide the frequency by 8 it always divides equally no remainder, isn't it the Schumann resonant frequency and i appear to get more output with the earth. Wired stuff!
If your coil has a self resonance at 1.2 MHz, then a 60 kHz narrow pulse can excite it with the 20th harmonic. All I meant to vary the frequency of the NE555 timer, if it cannot go higher than 60 kHz, then it can go below 60 kHz, just to verify for yourself that the coil works or does not work at its resonant frequency, driven by a sub harmonic pulse...
And what has 8 Hz got to do with this all, I wonder?
every Tesla coil i make, once i connect or have an earth near by if I divide the frequency by 8 it always divides equally no remainder, isn't it the Schumann resonant frequency and i appear to get more output with the earth. Wired stuff!
Hi Slider,Schumann resonance is like pulling the bath plug, How else would you guess the rotation of the earth or the hemisphere we live on ? Whats that got to do with it, my question to you is have you got a Tesla coil, find it's beat with you know what!
I am afraid it would take many, many hours to develop a device that would convert or sniff energy from Schumann resonance if it is possible... :D But then you would not need to tear your hair out due to the fluctuating frequencies because then (once you know the how to) you could surely build several such devices for the changing frequencies or even to track them... so you should not be left without OU. 8)
Gyula
Schumann resonance is like pulling the bath plug, How else would you guess the rotation of the earth or the hemisphere we live on ? Whats that got to do with it, my question to you is have you got a Tesla coil, find it's beat with you know what!Hi AG,
AG
Itsu, Gyula: I finally got the crystal oscillator working on a 13.5MHz crystal, to some degree. I had not realize that the C1815 has the emitter on the left side, instead of on the right side, until last night, when I checked the data sheet on it. Anyways, it's firing up now, and lighting a single led on a diode loop, but not any more number of leds. I guess this is normal, or not? Seams like my L3 may be too long, as the led won't light at the end of the L3, but it will from a tap on the middle of the L3, more or less. The battery input voltages are 4v, 8v, or 12v. But, the transistor is getting hot on any of those voltages.
Itsu: How did you tune your L3 to be in tune to the 13.5 frequency? My oscillator is now running at that 13.5MHz frequency, using the right crystal from the wireless mouse, but it looks like the L3 needs to be tuned. I also replace the choke with one that has 4 ohms of resistance. I'm using a 22nf cap between the collector/emitter, and a 100nf cap going to the diode loop/led.
I will probably also have to wind a ferrite coil for the collector, like you are using, otherwise there is not much output. And I don't seem to be getting any wireless effects, as yet, either. Only by direct connection by the diode loop/led.
...Hi Nick,
The battery input voltages are 4v, 8v, or 12v. But, the transistor is getting hot on any of those voltages. ...
All-- I found two good transistors for the Crystal oscillator circuit that can handle higher power and thus produce more light using higher voltage. These are the two: MJE181 and BD243C. I did not seek these out but had them on hand and just tried them. Both can handle up to 30 volts input into the crystal circuit. They get warm at that voltage but a simple heat sink is all you need. The little booster power supply gizmo (like Slider is using also) trips out if the amperage gets too much and with these two transistors it keep right on going at 30 volts.Hi lidmotor. thanks for sharing. is indutor 1 mega haner ? ( 1000 uh ) ?
Nick--- You are right about the 13.5MHz crystal circuit being touchy. The L3 coil being the most critical component I have found. This is the best coil for my build: It is a paper tube wrapped with about 90 turns of 26ga wire. I used a AA battery as the diameter form. The coil is roughly 5/8"dia x 3 1/8" long. It has about 2 ohms resistance and is about 100uh. The fist inductor (choke) is not nearly as critical and I have used ones from 1mh to 3.3mh successfully. The final lightbulb LED board is another thing that can give you vastly different results as far as real light production.
Gyula---Your help on this project is greatly appreciated. You fill in the gaps in technical knowledge that some of us have. I set out to be an EE but never got there. You give me a glimpse of what the world of true electrical engineering looks like. Some things you explain I understand and some I don't-----but it all helps.
Slider---Your idea for using a simple EBay voltage booster power supply really helps on this project. The one I am using has a built in over amperage cutout feature that saves me from causing little transistors to produce that annoying blue smoke. Ha.
All---Slayer (Gary Bluer) came up with a neat little 3 choke exciter that I replicated yesterday. With a few modifications it will run these led 110v lightbulb arrays. Here is a short video of what it looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQPpUMIF9T8
Hi Itsu,
Very good, many thanks for everything.
I suspect the toroidal core starts saturating from the DC component of the collector current. When you have time please measure the input current taken from the 12V battery.
Core saturation can cause the sine wave distortion we see across the tank (the yellow waveforms). And if you measure the variable capacitor pF value after it is set to the best tuned position, you may find it higher than what would be needed for tuning a 8.2 uH coil to 13.5 MHz, this would be a sure indication of certain core saturation which involves a less than 8.2 uH.
Trying to reduce core saturation, would you make the tap at the 3rd and / or at the 2nd turns instead of the present 4th? I know this may sound strange but I think it would be worth testing. This reduces the Amperturns for the core from the collector current point of view but also reduces the AC impedance for the collector, on which the transistor can amplify. But the increased step-up transformation in the coil may partially compensate for that. Try to set similar input current by the 100 kOHm trimmer pot when using the 3rd or 2nd tap, should it change but of course you can set it also for the highest output (maybe with some distortion returning...).
The spectrum of the waveform that drives L3 has many harmonics due to the suspected core saturation, so energy is distributed rather than confined to the base frequency (13.5 MHz).
Okay on detuning the variable cap and the 40 MHz returns, we need not bother about it, the loaded and detuned tank will have higher impedance for the collector nearer to 40 MHz than around 13.5 MHz, that is all.
Two question if I may: Did you remove the capacitor from between the base and emitter? Is the 22 pF or some other value is still needed between the collector and emitter for the oscillator to work? (Switch the supply voltage on and of when the 22pF is changed or removed.)
Gyula
Hi Itsu,
Thanks for the current measurements. I think you could pull out the crystal from the circuit and measure directly with a DC Ampermeter (DMM or analog) the non-oscillating input current, this would also be a kind of information for the current. And then try to plug in the crystal while the DC Ampermeter is still in the circuit to see how it changes. By the way, what kOhm was the 100 k potmeter set to when you checked the input current?
I can see filter capacitors across the input 12.5V supply voltage, this is very good you use such. If you recall the Doc's SEC circuits he included a multistage LC filter in both supply rails between his oscillator and supply voltage source, so the RF energy going towards the supply was gradually blocked by the series L and parallel C members of the filter. I am not saying you need to build such LC filter of course and measure current behind the filter, I just mention this.
Would like to ask: when you measured the variable capacitor as 50 pF, was the 22 pF placed between the collector-emitter at the time you tuned the tank with the variable cap to maximum brightness? I assume no scope probe was attached to the collector or to the tank during this time.
Normally a 4.4 uH coil needs about 32 pF tuning cap to resonate at 13.56 MHz. A 50 pf cap involves having a 2.76 uH coil to resonate at 13.56 MHz. So if the 22 pF was present between the collector-emitter, then its capacitance was also in parallel with the tank via the low AC impedance of the battery and filter caps, hence probably there is no or only a little core saturion in that case.
IF the 22 pF was removed earlier than you checked the variable cap, then the coil had only 2.76 uH inductance, this would indicate a stronger core saturation in that case.
Thanks, Gyula
erfandl---The inductor is 1000uh and a 3300uh. I got the 3300uh (3.3 milihenry?) off the circuit board that came out of a 50w OptoLight led bulb. The little transformer looking thing on the board (that is really just an inductor) also worked. I can't remember what the value was.Hi lidmotor. thanks for reply. I build the 3 choke exciter but the performance of circuit output is poor. the cap is 22 pf. I tested with 30pf trimmer but not any change. inductors is 1mh. power source is 3.7 volt battery. the circuit starting oscillate only with my hand.
I hope you try that 3 choke Exciter circuit that Slayer came up and put your spin on it to light up these 110v led lightbulb arrays. What is happening in that circuit carries over to what we have been doing here---make light with as little power as possible.
Cheers---Lidmotor
Hi erfandl,Hi gyula. I used 2n2222 transistor. OK tomorrow testing with 100 kohm or lower resistor and share the result.
What is the transistor type you are using in that circuit?
IF you use a 1 MegaOhm resistor for biasing the base from the positive supply rail, then try to reduce it to the some hundred kOhm values and see how brightness may change. Do not go lower than say 47-56 kOhm though but this much depends on the hFE value of the transistor. IF you find improvement in brightness when you reduced the 1 MOhm, then try to change the 30 pF trimmer and also try to add the 22 pF in parallel with the trimmer capacitor to find any chance for higher brightness. Do this trimmer cap setting again whenever you change the base resistor value down from the 1 MOhm to find better and better operation.
Gyula
Gyula. I tested with 100K pot resistor but nothing ! maybe the circuit is fake by Gbluer ?Hi Erfandl,
Hi Erfandl,thanks for reply. input source is 3.7 volt battery @ full charged level. now I using simple white led the brightness is good but it cannot be working with 1.5 volt ( like Gbuler circuit ) output voltage is 3 volt
No, forget it, it is surely not fake. Pay attention to all the comments GBluer made under his video and under Lidmotor's replication video. Hint: possibility for choke coil resonance and one of ways you can tune this oscillator is by adjusting the input supply voltage and watch peaks in brightness. OF course, this is very component dependent.
What input voltage and power your LED board (you show for this circuit at the bottom of the previous page) is specified for?
Lidmotor replication showed a 1 W LED probably a single LED and not an array and also GBLuer showed a 4 W LED and estimated the brightness of half of that by his eye. I guess the LEDs Lidmotor used needs 3.5 -4 V input maximum and the LED GBluer used may also need less than say 12V (my rough estimation).
Gyula
I wonder whether your circuit now works as an oscillator or the 3.7V battery drives the LED via the collector choke and via the series diode to the LED? :-\I wondered too :|
I wondered too :|In your above photos on the circuit I cannot see the capacitor which originally connected between choke L3 (labeled as negative out) and the negative supply rail. That series LC gives the feedback for the oscillator, without feedback there can be no oscillations. Sorry if you have that capacitor on the board in the above pictures but I cannot see it. :(
In your above photos on the circuit I cannot see the capacitor which originally connected between choke L3 (labeled as negative out) and the negative supply rail. That series LC gives the feedback for the oscillator, without feedback there can be no oscillations. Sorry if you have that capacitor on the board in the above pictures but I cannot see it. :(yeah capacitor is connected between L3 and negative rail. the other led pin is connected to variable capacitor and negative output.
Another issue: In the original schematic, the 1N4148 diode output (labeled as positive out) is connected to one of the LED pins. Where did you connect the other pin of the LED ? Originally it connected to the variable capacitor and the negative output of the choke L3, but where did you connect it? It is lit.... and this is why I asked whether it is lit by oscillations or ??
Gyula
Gyula,
i will tinker again this evening.
concerning the used led strip, i found the following website showing an example and put down some specs below:
https://www.beslist.nl/klussen/d0018768908/R7S_LED_Lamp_11W_Warm_Wit_135mm.html (https://www.beslist.nl/klussen/d0018768908/R7S_LED_Lamp_11W_Warm_Wit_135mm.html)
# Replacement for 150W 240V halogene lamp
# 11W @ 90-260V AC
# Type LED Epistar 5050 SMD
It has 3 strips (parallel??) and i use only 1 strip, meaning it can handle/supply about 11 / 3 = 3.6W (50W equivalent)
I estimate the brightness i had yesterday on about 1/3th of it being on the grid.
Nick,
concerning the L3 coil, i found this website/picture:
http://www.tuks.nl/Mirror/Dr_Stiffler/SEC18_1.htm.html (http://www.tuks.nl/Mirror/Dr_Stiffler/SEC18_1.htm.html)
Comparing with the 1N4148 diodes (3.5mm long) i guestimate that the coil has the following dimensions:
former diameter: 20mm
former length: 50mm
nbr of turns: 70
But its like seychelles says, its not that critical.
Itsu
yeah capacitor is connected between L3 and negative rail. the other led pin is connected to variable capacitor and negative output.Okay then, your oscillator works. Try to seek for resonance with the chokes, especially L3 and make the trimmer capacitor to cover a higher pF range. (GBluer indicated a 2-512 pF variable.) The base resistance then may also be varied.
Okay then, your oscillator works. Try to seek for resonance with the chokes, especially L3 and make the trimmer capacitor to cover a higher pF range. (GBluer indicated a 2-512 pF variable.) The base resistance then may also be varied.thanks. but there is no 512 pF trimmer available in my country. I found only 0-120 pF trimmer. is that help me ?
Each oscillator has its own 'soul'... :)
Thanks Itsu. Regarding the virtual ground to start up the oscillator: have you tried to connect the common point of the diodes to the negative (or maybe the positive) supply rail with a short piece of wire? That my also help start up but without that longer piece of wire.
If it works like that you may increase the potmeter setting to a higher value like 50-70 kOhm maybe to reduce dissiparion if the circuit lets it doing.
Very likely you need to retune the tank, we do not know how many pF the back plate of the LED board introduces into the tank, maybe it would detune the tank too far from 13.56 MHz, so keep this in mind. it is possible the variable capacitor should be turned to its minimal pF setting or even to remove it and yet the back plate capacitance would be still higher than the originally needed 30-35 pF.
Addition: with the tap at the 2nd turn, the 22 pF capacitor between the collector-emitter may need to be modified to a higher value to increase feedback, this way the oscillator may start-up without any virtual ground, this can be true for the tap at the 3rd turn too. Try to set not higher than 60-70 mA collector current but that may be really needed for the 230V LED board.
Do you have the specification of the LED board the manufacturer gave on it? Input voltage I guess is 230V AC originally. Now is the brightness we see close to the brightness this LED board produces from the mains with its original internal circuit? I think these questions would be put by Nick too... ;)
Thanks, Gyula
Hi Itsu,
Many thanks. This may mean the series capacitance of the back plate of your LED board towards the conducting LEDs and the two diodes common point is small enough so that the variable capacitor can still be tuned for max brightness, I suppose?
Okay that a smaller current yields less brightness, I thought to reduce it so that such changes should not damage anything.
Gyula
Yes, it can help you. And you can always add fix capacitors in parallel with it if the 120 pF is not high enough. (Of course the setting range suffers.) You may have access to old AM pocket radio in which a plastic cased variable capacitor can be found, normally such has 2 x 260 or 2 x 300 pF variables. Or you collect a range of fix capacitors like 22, 47, 100, 200 pF and place them in parallel in gradual combinations.thanks. its helped by parallel 22pF with 30pF trimmer and circuit is now working, but the inductors gets very very very hot !
Hi Erfandl,no transistor isn't hot only inductors hot. the current is 720 mA :-\ frequency is 85 kHz. resistor is 1M ohm.
Very good your oscillator is now working.
Is the transistor you use is hot too? Is the base resistor 100 kOhm or 1 MOhm now?
Please use a DC Ampermeter to learn about the input current your oscillator takes from your voltage source
(the 3.7V battery?). If this current is less than say 30-40 mA, than the hot choke coils can be explained as follows:
the ferrite material these chokes use is not powdered iron but hard ferrite and their performance above a certain
frequency becomes gradually lossy and more lossy, this loss manifests in heat. Very likely the oscillator frequency
went up to the several 10 kHz range where the chokes ferrite material becomes extensively lossy.
If you happen to have a digital multimeter which can measure frequency, hook it between the collector of the transistor
and the negative supply rail to learn about it.
IF this core loss is the problem (i.e. the current consumption is not in the hundreds of mA range), then you need to
obtain 1000 uH (1 milliHenry) chokes that has no ferrite material.
Gyula
Well, then the 720 mA is the problem: it can happen when the isolation between the plates of the trimmer capacitorthanks for reply. yeah L1 and L3 is hot and L2 is cold. I using 3.7V battery. I checked the capacitors with ohm meter and the DMM nothing show any value so capacitors is OK.
is damaged and there is a short circuit somewhere between the plates. Remove the battery i.e. switch off the oscillator
and with your Ohm meter check resistance between the two pins of the trimmer capacitor. IF the trimmer capacitor or
the 22 pF itself is conducting as quasi a piece of wire, then chokes L1 and L3 can get hot (but the L2 choke in base
is not hot, right?). Maybe the circuit board itself has become conductive somewhere?
It is interesting the oscillator is able to work. Do you use the 3.7V battery?
I found the logic circuit of my led lamp, see picture.it's not necessarily the power through the leds, leds emit UV witch is used to vibrate the phosphor
The backside reads: Y&M-TG-5-9W so probably indeed a 9W led lamp.
Itsu
I found the logic circuit of my led lamp, see picture.Hi Itsu,
The backside reads: Y&M-TG-5-9W so probably indeed a 9W led lamp.
Itsu
Lidmotor - I build the crystal oscillator circuit with BD243C transistor. the transistor isn't get hot and stay coldHi Erfandl,
with 24 volt input. the current output from DC DC boost converter is 24 mA so 24*24= 576 mW
Hi Erfandl,thanks for reply. yes the LED drived with single wire. the wire is connected to diodes not back plate. I think its 7 watt LED ( I don't know voltage maybe 120 volt ? ). I cant remember model of the bulb
Good job with the crystal oscillator. If I see from the pictures correctly, you drive the LED via a single wire coming
from the single layer coil, right? Did you connect the single wire to the back plate of the LED board?
Would you tell what is the type of the LED board or lamp? (make, power). If you happen to have a second such LED lamp,
then could you drive it with a known DC power to get a similar brightness the oscillator provides?
Thanks, Gyula
Hi Itsu,
Yes, the 5050 LED chip is designed for the 60 mA forward current and 3.1 - 3.4 V forward voltage and this roughly
gives 0.2 W power (each chip includes 3 LEDs in parallel with 20 mA current for each LED). The 0.5 W version in this
chip family is labeled as 5054, so it is already a different type.The converter you show very likely provides a constant
current drive for the 3 LED boards in the lamp and I think the 3 boards are in series connection.
This way the constant current is 120 mA and the total voltage should be then 3 times the 23 V = 69 V DC,
this gives roughly 8.3 W power what the converter should provide.
Assuming a normal 90 % efficiency for such converter, the mains input power should be around 9.1 W into the converter.
Now what would be interesting is to feed a single such LED board from about 23 VDC source to let 60 mA current
flow and see the brightness as a reference for the oscillator... 8)
Gyula
NickZ and others: If I may be of help, you can get the genuine SEC 18 L3 coil information you're looking for 'straight from the horse's mouth'. On the first page of this thread, ramset attached a document
by Dr. Stiffler which provides a very detailed description of the L3 coil construction which starts on page 30. See Reply #10 on October 17, 2017, attachment file name DocumentSEC18_Rel_2_8-1.pdf
https://overunity.com/17249/dr-ronald-stiffler-sec-technology/10/ (https://overunity.com/17249/dr-ronald-stiffler-sec-technology/10/)
thanks for reply. yes the LED drived with single wire. the wire is connected to diodes not back plate. I think its 7 watt LED ( I don't know voltage maybe 120 volt ? ). I cant remember model of the bulbHi Erfandl,
the brightness is go higher when I connect the DC DC boost converter heat sync to a big aluminum heat sync.
OK, well now I can see why the 20v 5w solar panel would blow these C1815 transistors. They are OK for voltages of up to 8v or so. When using the 100k base resistors, but only provide about 12v or 13v output at the collector emitter, which is not enough on my oscillator to see some wireless effects.
I have set up some additional series connected 10k ohm resistors to see which number of them will provide the needed current to the base. That is after going through the 100k base resistor and crystal.
So if the question is how much current should go to the transistor base, while using let's say 12v input. I don't know the answer, yet.
Gyula---Your comment, "Each oscillator has it's own soul." is so true. This latest G. Bluer circuit is no different. Gary builds weird circuits---always has and he doesn't explain much in his video. To me they are puzzles and going back many years I have enjoyed them. His 'Slayer Exciter' like the Joule Thief is a classic. This 3 choke exciter is a 'tinker toy' and meant to be played around with. I did get the original circuit to run but quickly modified it (like Slider and Gary are doing). Mine does not self start so I am using a BBQ lighter spark near it to jump start the oscillator. I eliminated the 1M resistor. Here is a tip: Just take two chokes and put them side by side and wire them up to the NPN in a regular Joule Thief circuit. If you get good led performance like that you know that the chokes and the transistor like each other OK. If that works then it is just a case of reconfiguring the two chokes into the new circuit. The third choke can be replaced with a Slayer Exciter tower if you want and the cap doesn't do much I found. Keep the 1n4148 diode and led going from the (-) to the base for this thing to run right. I'm am not seeing the super low amp draw on mine that Gary shows but it will run down to about .6v. Any 2N2222 type transistor works fine. Stay under 4v to keep it alive.
All--Dr. Stiffler's latest video is about using three coils resonating together ----driven by a function generator. I think I know why he is doing this and where he is heading. Remember these days? Guess what that 'special frequency' is that he talks about in this video from 2011.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lbYjqU48Mw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lbYjqU48Mw)
I wonder if he had his function generator (set at that 'special frequency) connected to something near that AL block sitting on the far right side of the elevated board? Hummm.
Even if this device was not 'self-running',as people thought, to me the fact that it worked at all is amazing. Now that I have a signal generator perhaps I can replicate this experiment. I always thought that perhaps he just had another SEC running near by ----but what if it was just his signal generator broadcasting at 13.6 Mhz pumped out at about 1 watt.
----Lidmotor
Hi nickz. you try 7.2MHz crystal on which circuit ?
Itsu:
I'm using the 7.2MHz crystal for now, as it shows the highest output at the led bulb. The oscillator will also run on the 13.5MHz crystals, but not as well. As that crystal runs the oscillator a few volts lower, like 32v, instead of 39v, like the 7.2MHz crystal. Wireless field effects start to show up at around 40v, on, but are too weak below that voltage.
Slider: I think that your scope's negative probe may not have been connected.
erfandl: My 13.5MHz crystal oscillator is pictured below. It runs best using the 7.2MHz crystal, or a 12.000MHz crystal.thanks NickZ. how to provide output to input for looping ? do you connect 2 diodes to battery ?
The diagram (below) was taken from one of Lidmotor's videos.
I've provided for two outputs, one for the leds, and another for future power looping, back to the input.
Gyula,Hi Itsu,
thanks for the comments, i will digest them later this weekend.
The question you have i can answer, as the current pulled by the PS at 17.8V was 2.2mA.
Measuring the current from the battery feeding the oscillator was fouled up by RF? as i could not get
a correct reading.
itsu
...Nick,
I've got it lighting on 12v, and just being careful not to overheat the transistor. I tried adding a 150K resistor in line with the 100k resistor that's on the base, but it would not start. And so I removed it, until I can find a more suitable one.
...
thanks NickZ. how to provide output to input for looping ? do you connect 2 diodes to battery ?
Hi Itsu,
The 18V DC is created by the AV plug diodes across the LED diodes (7 LEDs in series and this is in parallel with another 7 LEDs also in series).
You know the voltage - current characteristics of LEDs are like that of Zener diodes hence the 17.8 to 18 V DC level automatically developes across the array (LED string).
Seemingly the basic 3 V forward voltage for a single white LED is not valid here because 18V / 7 = 2.57 V only, instead of the 2.9V to 3.3V range but I think this lower value comes from the parallel connection of the two series strings. (like for Zeners or for normal diodes the parallel connection does reduce the original Zener breakdown or forward voltages)
If you connect two such LED boards in series to add their '18V levels' and feed them with the AV plug, then the input RF energy may be able to light them both, albeit they maybe would not have similar brightness than in the single board case.
And you would then see a 33-35V or so DC on the scope Math.
By the way, I assume if you connect an electrolytic cap across the DC wires of the LED board with the correct polarity, then it would serve as a puffer capacitor for the AV plug diodes and maybe you could check the DC level not only with the scope but with a normal DC voltmeter.
A 47 to 100 uF, 25 or 36 V rated electrolytic would be ok for such test. (Notice: if you remove the LED board from the puffer cap, then a 160V DC rated capacitor should be used to handle the unloaded DC level from the AV plug.)
Regarding the need for a capacitive coupling when the xtal oscillator drives the 3 coils instead of the FG, I think also the input of 3 coils may represent a low impedance and loads down too much the toroidal tank.
Perhaps you can see this on the scope what happens to the near 100 Vpp across the toroidal tank when you attempt to drive the 3 coils.
Could you use a low pF value trimmer capacitor instead of the PC board? I mean a few pF, max say 10 pF.
To make the tuning of such capacitor relatively hand_effect_detuning free, you could make a 'trimmer cap' by twisting two enameled wires together, say you make a 10 cm long twist and leave the 2 wires open at one end.
Then connect the two other wire ends as a coupling capacitor between the tank and the 3 coil setup.
To tune such capacitor, just cut down the open end of the twist gradually say by 1 cm or half a cm at a time and see the brightness.
Hi Itsu,
2.2 mA forward current at 17.8 V: that is rather low. It means the individual SMD LEDs on those boards are already able to give brightness you show in the video from 2.4 - 2.5 V individual forward voltage levels.
Specifications on the 5050 LED chips:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/surface-mount-smd/warm-white-5050-smd-led-120-degree-viewing-angle-6000-mcd/317/1249/ (https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/surface-mount-smd/warm-white-5050-smd-led-120-degree-viewing-angle-6000-mcd/317/1249/)
For any single SMD LED chip (that your boards include) the forward voltage is written to be 3.2 V at 3x20 mA current this is because any single chip includes 3 LED diodes integrated and connected in parallel within any chip.
The parallel connection of two series strings on a board having 7-7 such chips reduces the specified 7x3.2V= 22.4V at 60 mA: you made a test at 60 mA and the voltage was 20 V from the PS or your another test done at 67 mA needed 20.3V (7x2.9V), this is possible and comparable. The resulting reducement in forward voltage for parallel connected LEDs is similar to that of Zener or for just normal diodes.
I do not think your earlier RF current measurements were false (around 50 mA taken from the 12.5V battery), you confirmed this with an analog ampermeter too. Back then the LED board was driven by its back plate via a single wire from the L3 coil, now you drove the LED board from an AV plug which was driven from the 3rd coil of a 3 coil setup. Also, the capacitive coupling you created between the wire from the input to the 3 coils and the PCB plate has an unknown pF value and its capacitive reactance reduces the RF voltage coming from the tank.
OR you meant input current measurement problems in the present case when you drive the 3 coils by the oscillator?
Thanks, Gyula
Gyula,Okay, thanks. The voltage-current characteristic of the paralleled LED strings within a LED board is very steap to cause the big change in current for the 2 V change in voltage. But this is normal for LEDs.
i checked again with my DC PS, at 20V they draw 60mA, but at 18V it drops to 2.6mA with moderate light.
Yes, i meant the input current measurement is not possible when i drive the 3 coils by the oscillator.
Probably the RF emitting from the 3 coils is to strong, as even without any cables connected to my analoge
meter it reads 5mA or so (nearby off course).
Itsu
Hmmm. increased the brightness by paralleling three 13.56 MHz crystalHi Erfandl,
Hi Itsu,
Thanks for the comments and measurements, I appreciate your work very much.
I agree with the schema you show on the 3 coil setup as the Doc introduced it in his video. Does the trimmer capacitor set to 5 pF give a resonance-like coupling? i.e. can it be adjusted to give a peak brightness and that happens to be around 5 pF? or it has a 'flat' response? Just curious. (I know it is difficult to adjust due to the hand capacitance, perhaps the use of a piece of wood or plastic rod formed to have screwdriver end would reduce hand effects when turning the trimmer with them.)
In the 3 coil setup there are the AV plug diodes inserted between the input coil and the middle coil. This is an unusual connection because the DC resistance of the second coil short circuits the DC component of the rectified RF energy and "only" the RF signals remain to feed the top and bottom ends of the middle coil. Have you pondered on this DC short?
When you have time next week, could you place the two probes to the ends of the middle coil and use the scope in differential mode to see how the waveforms look like?
I assume you changed the distance between the input and the middle coil? Is the distance critical between them in terms of the brightness?
And the most interesting thing is his 1 Ohm voltage drop measurement right at the output of his generator. Have you checked when you remove the 3rd coil with the LED board (as he did) then how the amplitude of the oscillator tank changes? That would be the goal to achieve what he stated: the energy taken out from the generator does not change.
Gyula
Hi Erfandl,Hi Gyula. thanks for reply. I tested and when I use one crystal current is 38 mA when I use three crystal the current is 33.4 mA ! so the brightness increased with lower current ;D
I missed to comment your interesting test. Would you check the DC input current to your oscillator how it changes when the 3 crystals work?
I think the number of oscillator harmonic frequencies are greatly increased with the use of 3 crystals versus a single crystal and this comes at a price of an increased input power too. The harmonics can only be seen by using a spectrum analyzer (or a selective voltmeter).
If you find the input current does not increase with the use of 3 crystals, that would be good news... 8) but I think it increases.
Gyula
...Well, okay but I was pondering why the shorted DC component as a result of rectification may or may not cause loss in the setup? Because the AV plug diodes rectify the RF as they should and if you place a puffer cap across the diodes output, then DC voltage remains and the RF is killed as usual. Now there is the coil across the diodes output and the DC is surely killed (at least voltage wise) and the RF voltage remains. This is why I mentioned this.
I think we don't need the DC at that middle coil, just the RF AC to excite it.
...
Gyula: I measured the current on my oscillator. Without the crystal it was 22mA, and with the crystal it was 52mA. This is with the L3 on a load of 10 leds on an AV plug. This is with an 8v input.Nick,
For some reason, now only the 7.2Mhz crystal is doing anything. No light with the other crystals on.
Wireless near field distance is only about 1 cm away from the L3, as noticed on the led/av plug.
Hi Itsu,
My bad, somehow I missed your post #555 and commented only your post #561 when you were measuring the output to the LED board in the 3 coil setup. So you already gave the answers to my most questions.
You wrote: Well, okay but I was pondering why the shorted DC component as a result of rectification may or may not cause loss in the setup? Because the AV plug diodes rectify the RF as they should and if you place a puffer cap across the diodes output, then DC voltage remains and the RF is killed as usual. Now there is the coil across the diodes output and the DC is surely killed (at least voltage wise) and the RF voltage remains. This is why I mentioned this.
In the Doc's video his scope showed only a little change in the RF amplitude the probes measured (I do not mean the Math channel) when he removed the 3rd (output) coil + LED board combo, while in your setup the RF amplitude changes about 5V (from 17Vpp to 12Vpp) when you remove the 3rd coil. I think this may come from the small differences between your coils especially due to the small difference between the middle and the 3rd (output) coil.
So probably the 5 Vpp change could be reduced if you replace the input and the output coils with each other: this way, after the change, the two most identical coils would be at the critical places as I think. Of course we do not know yet whether such 5 Vpp or whatever change at the input of the 3 coil setup may prove to be unwanted or not, I mention this because in the Doc's setup such amplitude change is not seen.
Gyula
Okay Itsu, many thanks and I will try to digest your findings today but may be able to answer tomorrow evening only, due to some travel daytime, I will see.No problem, take your time, doing the same overhere.
Gyula
Hi Erfandl,Hi gyula. thanks for reply. can you draw Pi filter circuit ? I cant understand how to build the Pi filter. thanks
Your finding the current draw is reduced with the 3 crystal and the brightness increases is interesting. :) Would you mind using a Pi filter in the battery supply rails? I do not really think your Ampermeter is fooled with the 3 crystals operating though.
Just connect the oscillator positive supply wire to the battery via a 1 mH (1000 uH) choke coil. And connect one-one 10 or 22 or 47 or 100 nF capacitor across the supply rails on both sides of the choke, thus you form a Pi filter. Such filter greatly reduces any 13.56 MHZ and higher harmonic frequencies going back towards the battery and your Ampermeter which now should be connected between the battery positive and the positive input of the choke, ok?
Let me repeat: I do not really assume your Ampermeter shows false currents and that is why you see current reduction... For the time being I cannot give a logical explanation.
Gyula
Gyula - Many thanks for the tips.Hi slider. Thanks for sharing video. I think if you using germanium diodes like 1N60 or AA119 get better result.
Will try the 9V battery and look into the exact terminations. All I usually see is 'into a 50ohm load' and have no real idea how the load can be exactly terminated in that way. It's all new, apologies for that.
TK - OMG, as they say, yes of course. The scope is usually over at the usual bench, but I tend to move it to the far cleaner table for vids etc. The usual scope lead was over at the other bench, so I grabbed another and...didn't check whether it was on 1x or 10x
:)
All - Found something of possible interest, which I would have thought would have reared as a fault or feature, but haven't seen it mentioned. The Dr. Stiffler type L3, with 2x AV plugs, an LED and length of floral wire can be used as a tester for mains wiring continuity.
The circuit is shown in the video and there is a positive reaction with wood, believe it or not. Maybe it's because of the humidity here in Oklahoma, but the thing has some very strange properties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4hCiUUcZ18
Hi gyula. thanks for reply. can you draw Pi filter circuit ? I cant understand how to build the Pi filter. thanksSure, here it is. It shows the place for inserting an Ampermeter too.
Sure, here it is. It shows the place for inserting an Ampermeter too.thanks Gyula. I build the Pi filter circuit and testing the crystal current. with one crystal current is 28.41 mA and with three crystal current is 23.12 mAh also light output increased with three crystal ! the L3 coil now working without ferrite rod !
Hi Itsu,
Regarding your differential voltage measurement across the middle coil in Reply #590: the waveforms are quasi identical, the 1 V difference is very small with respect to the 43-44 Vpp amplitudes. I believe the small decrease in brightness you notice due to the probes connection may happen because the differential probe capacitance may detune the middle coil.
I cannot guess why the Math trace goes negative, a crazy idea would say: flip the AV diodes polarity going to the middle coil and see then whether it changes to positive or remains negative?
Regarding your 1 Ohm csr measurements (when run from the oscillator) and also with swapping the output and input coils (when run from the FG): it comes that my thought to blame the small difference in input and output coils inductance would not explain the around 5 V change on the 1 Ohm when you remove or attach the output coil/LED combo. I still think though that the answer may still inherently be in the tuning of the coils, perhaps try to use a small piece of powdered iron RF core and approach it to each coil to reduce their own resonance and see any change in the 5 V issue. Of course, when you have time and the mood because this is not so important at this time and maybe it will not be. But it is still good the Math output value does not change when removing the 3rd coil/LED combo. Thanks for all your efforts.
Gyula
Hi Erfandl,Hi gyula. the battery is 3.7 volt and the boost coverter output is 24 volt. today I testing the brightness output with my own LUX meter BH1750 sensor and Blynk app. here the result
Okay, thanks for showing the current measurement results. As I indicated before I did not blame the validity of your previous measurement on the reducement in input current when using 3 crystals in parallel: with oscillators it is always a good practice to filter the supply rails when measuring DC input current or learn about DC input power.
So the mistery remains why the input current reduces and the brightness increases.
I think you have a 3rd 1000 uH choke coil available, right? Would you put this 3rd choke in parallel with the collector choke coil ? First do it with a single crystal and watch input current and brightness when you plug in the 3rd choke, then do the same when the 3 crystals are plugged in again. By the way, what is the resistance of such chokes? You can measure it with your digital multimeter when they are not plugged into the circuit.
With the parallel connection of two chokes in the collector I do not expect anything fancy would happen, just a suggestion to learn on its effect if any. What you found as good by using the Pi filter is now there is no need for the use of the ferrite rod... 8)
You wrote: "DC DC boost converter pull 3.4 mA from battery !!!"
Would you tell what is the battery voltage you use to drive the boost converter? And what is the output voltage you set the the converter to? Just wish to know whether the 3.4 mA is a typo instead of say 34 mA ?
Thanks, Gyula
Hi Itsu,
I am mistaken, sorry and the crystals should be so close to each other that they cannot oscillate individually what I thought. This is what your measurement basically shows, right? Thanks for checking this.
Maybe you also checked this same at the 5th or say at the 7th harmonic of the 13.56 MHz on the SA? where any difference may manifest at a higher distance on the frequency axis.
I mean if there is a difference of say 70 Hz between two paralleled crystals at 13.56 MHz, then this difference will be 5x or 7x 70 = 350 Hz or 490 Hz which may be already easier to notice IF these two lines exist, that is.
Suppose IF these two vertical lines existed next to each other with a distance between them being 490 Hz at around 95 MHz, would the SA zoom-in resolution be fine enough to notice it? this can also be a question provided the two lines exist of course.
Will think on this further on. Comments are welcome from anyone of course.
Gyula
I tried an old Dr. Stiffler 'one wire energy transmission' experiment today using my 13.56MHz Crystal Oscillator. It worked.Hi Lidmotor,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KzctX1oxzE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KzctX1oxzE)
--Lidmotor
Hi gyula. the battery is 3.7 volt and the boost coverter output is 24 volt. today I testing the brightness output with my own LUX meter BH1750 sensor and Blynk app. here the resultHi Erfandl,
also with three crystal LUX is stable ( screenshot test with three crystal )
Gyula,Hi Itsu,
sorry, yes i did take a look to some harmonics (5th, 7th) the same way as the base peak, and also did not notice any difference.
The above screenshot where taken with a frequency span of 306kHz, so at the 7th harmonics i should have seen something i guess.
Below the 2 screenshots from the spectrum overview showing the harmonics with both 1 crystal in and then 5.
Peak 8 is again a strong local Fm station leaking through.
Itsu
Hi Itsu,
I may have sounded a bit unpolite by mentioning quickly the choke coil in the collector while you used the 1 k resistor, sorry for this. I only wanted to indicate the current decrease with the increasing number of paralleled xtals would be more pronounced when a choke coil is in the collector, a resistor limits both the AC and DC currents while a coil limits mainly the AC current.
Anyway, it remains to be figured out why the input DC current reduces and the output RF power increases when the number of xtals is increased in this oscillator.
Gyula
Gyula,
no problem, i am not that easily offended, i was already looking for a 1mH choke with which i can redo the tests.
Could it not be that with more parallel crystals the Q goes up resulting in a higher output (but
smaller peak) and stronger dip in current at resonance?
I will check that tonight with the choke and my SA.
Itsu
...Nick,
Here is an interesting video. Placing a magnet on the coil, and using no current to light a super bright LED bulb.
This may have some connection to the Doc's ideas, maybe. https://youtu.be/ZKjj4x9zhvs (https://youtu.be/ZKjj4x9zhvs)
Hi Erfandl,sorry for the battery current. the battery current today I testing is 228 mAh. now I using 5 crystal, output current is 20 mAh and brightness output is 10150 LUX.
Thanks for the Lux meter screenshots, they nicely show the higher light outputs as you placed 2 and 3 crystals in parallel.
Okay on your boost converter has 24 V DC output, and its input receives the 3.7 V battery.
Now please explain where is the 3.4 mA current measured you mentioned in your earlier post above? Or was it 34 mA?
I understand that the current input to the oscillator reduces when you use 3 crystals (from 28.4 mA to 23.1 mA): did you use the 24 V DC from the boost converter back then?
Thanks,
Gyula
Why not try crystals of _different_ frequencies in the parallel stack? The spectrum analyzer display should be interesting....Yes, this would be a good next step in exploring this. I think the oscillator will become and function
sorry for the battery current. the battery current today I testing is 228 mAh. now I using 5 crystal, output currentDear Erfandl,
is 20 mAh and brightness output is 10150 LUX.
Dear Erfandl,Yes. The current output from boost converter is 20 mA and boost converter output voltage is 24 volt.
Sorry for nagging you with these current values, I thought if you report results, then the data should be written correctly
what your meters really show, this is all, no offense intended.
Thanks for these new current values. Would like to ask that the 20 mA current you mention now is taken fromyour booster converter, right?
Was the converter output voltage set to 24 V ?
And please do not use mAh for current it should be mA only. mAh is for good for battery capacity.
Thanks for all your kind efforts.
Gyula
Yes, this would be a good next step in exploring this. I think the oscillator will become and function
as an RF mixer too.
Provided the second crystal is willing to oscillate too, in parallel with the 13.56 MHz, that is... 8)
You may happen to have crystals with say a few MHz less frequency than 13.56 MHz.
And for a start, just use a single 13.56 MHz and another single crystal only, say with having a lower frequency.
Gyula
I ran the drain supply all the way up to 15V, with 0.96A DC input current, yielding 14W RF output. Not bad for active devices barely visible to the naked eye, and no heat sink! (EPC says R(ja) ~ 100C/W.) I wish I had better efficiency numbers, but I was measuring rms load voltage with my Rigol scope, which isn't terribly accurate: I was calculating drain efficiency ~ 96% or even higher, awesome... until I started getting some "over unity" efficiencies at low power (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/facepalm.gif) Oops.
itsu--- Thanks for trying that experiment of injecting a separate signal. I was hoping for a massive tall spike to show up when a second wave showed up at just the right frequency. It doesn't look like that happens. Perhaps if there were multiple frequencies but that is hard to figure out where to even start with that experiment.
Thanks again for the effort.
---Lidmotor
erfandl----What you just did is exactly what crossed my mind about paralleling two complete crystal oscillator circuits. I didn't think that it would do much---and you proved me wrong! Great results! I have all the parts to do this and will replicate your experiment as soon as I can. Your lumen per watt situation is starting to look really good. Looking at this on a scope and spectrum analyzer should be interesting. Perhaps the big freak wave I am looking for happens with this simple two circuit setup. The two circuits are probably not exactly identical. Perhaps the two waves generated might be just enough off to generate the big boy I'm after. I don't think that this will look pretty on the scope but the LEDs don't care. The bad boy waves that I have seen at sea are ugly looking things but very powerful.Hi lidmotor. Thanks for reply. I think now we can switching to 2n2222 or mpsa06 transistor with this method. Because 2n2222 at 12 volt the output like the bd243c transistor at 24 volt. I don't have an oscilloscope or spectrum analyzer to looking the frequency :(
--Lidmotor
Hi Itsu,
Okay, so it seems your SA nicely shows the multiple output frequencies of an RF mixer and we can be sure the displayed amplitudes at their specific frequencies are present at the collector of the transistor, it is reality.
Regarding your 12 MHz crystal needed a higher input current: although there is the so called 'activity' (willingness to oscillate) behaviour for crystals in general (they are all 'different'), have you tried this: just start the same oscillator with a single 12 MHz crystal and try to run it with say 15-20 mA input current only to see how it behaves. If it is willing to oscillate 'normally', then plug in a single 13,56 MHz crystal in parallel with it and see it oscillate or not etc. Of course it is possible you find the need for increasing input current again to have both crystals work, you will see. Try a 2nd or 3rd 13.56 MHz xtal (one by one) instead of the first one if you find the need for increasing input current to have both crystals work.
And if you happen to have other crystals of yet differing frequencies, do test them when you have time.
We may deduce from your tests now why the SA is not able to display the multiple output frequencies of the 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 pieces of the 13.56 MHz crystals in parallel: the outputs of the frequency components due to the mixing process simply coincide. This means that say the sum of two 13.56 MHz xtals is simply almost equal to the 2nd harmonic, 27.12xx MHz, the small difference may range from some 10 Hz to some 100 Hz (up to some kHz at the higher harmonics) only, so that the SA resolution is simply not fine enough. I think it is the RBW (Resolution Band Width) setting on the SA which can only be reduced to a given smallest setting. depending on sweep time (SWT) or frequency span etc. The RWB was set to 30 kHz on your SA when you zoomed in on the 13.56 MHz frequency and probably a 10 Hz or less RBW would be needed to see the different frequency components which differ from each other by say 34 Hz. Of course this 10 Hz RBW or less may be a strict requirement for an SA, though not impossible.
Thanks,
Gyula
Transmission line model demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4T5KKQjz0s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4T5KKQjz0s)
Hi all try sticking your crystal in this circuit if you want harmonics!
http://www.learningelectronics.net/circuits/harmonic-generator-with-single-opamp_03.html
Hi Itsu,Hi I'm having trouble duplicating some of the claims oublished on this tread I first tried the 12mhz with the 15.6mhz
Okay, I understand, the higher current is needed for the two paralleled crystals of differing frequencies.
Thanks for your kind efforts!
Gyula
Hi AG,Gyula; Thanks for info i will try that out later on when i can dig out a decent transistor, ;D
You may also need to vary the DC bias current for your transistor like Itsu did to have both crystals operate simultaneously.
And try to use other transistor types too, preferably with higher than 100 hFE. Also, try to vary the supply voltage. These are some 'rules'... you may know some other ones too. As I wrote earlier: each oscillator has a 'soul'. ;D
Superimposing waves, I can tell generally only: you can get twice the amplitude of two waves identical in amplitude, wavelength and phase.
Try to play with these simulators below. In the first one the wavelength of the 2nd wave is variable and see the sum of the red and blue waves: http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/HTML5/beats.html (http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/HTML5/beats.html)
When you set 24 Hz for the blue wave, then it will be identical in phase and frequency to the red wave, so their sum becomes exactly twice all the way and harmonic-free, otherwise the nice sine wave gets distorted as you vary the blue wave frequency.
You can pause the process any time.
Here are some other simulations:
http://ophysics.com/w2.html (http://ophysics.com/w2.html) wave pulse interference and superposition
http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/HTML5/interference.html (http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/HTML5/interference.html) constructive and destructive interference
http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/HTML5/interference_of_pulses.html (http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/HTML5/interference_of_pulses.html) constructive and destructive pulse interference
http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/HTML5/transverse_standing_wave.html (http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/HTML5/transverse_standing_wave.html) one wave goes to right the other to left, harmonics of the waves up to 6
I have not found an online wave simulator which would mimic the freak waves i.e. letting vary the amplitude and the wavelength of 2 waves separately and let them collide.
Gyula
erfandl--- I worked on the two paralleled crystal oscillator setup again today. My results were disappointing. Not enough light increase for the additional power required. I probably will not spend any more time on it. :-\Hi lidmotor. thanks for reply. do you using MPSA06 or BD243C transistor ? yesterday I test with 2n2222 and MPSA18 but the result is not like BD243C. I'm not using ferrite rod
---- Lidmotor
Nick,
Nice progress! Would like to ask you did try the 13.5MHz crystal with this D13007K transistor but it simply did not oscillate? Or you thought the transistor simply is not suitable due to its 4 MHz frequency limit and you did not test it?
You surely have to increase the L3 coil size for the 3.5 MHz crystal. I suggest to follow what Lidmotor built as a variable coil with a wiper wire sliding on the surface of the coil. Wind a coil at least on a 4 cm OD bobbin with at least a 6 - 7 cm long winding. With the wiper this can be tuned by watching the LED brightness.
When this coil is in resonance, the cliplead from the diode may be removed and the diodes common point may be connected to battery negative or positive, I mean to include the LED board by capacitive coupling into the L3 circuit and tune it by the wiper too.
If you or someone near you has an old, unused AM pocket radio then its ferrite antenna could be taken out and you could use the ferrite rod to tune this L3 coil you have for the 13.5 MHz and lower the coil resonant frequency toward 3.5 MHz. I mean such ferrite rod: https://i.stack.imgur.com/7QaIR.jpg (https://i.stack.imgur.com/7QaIR.jpg)
Gyula
The oscillator will only start when using the 3.5MHz and the 7.2MHz crystals. But the 7.2MHz runs at a much lower amplitude, like 12v at the collector/emitter. I will add more turns to my L3 today, and see if I can get the 13.5MHz crystal to start up. And I need to find a power transistor that can run at least to 13.5MHz also.I had a problem like that it was the low frequency band width of the transistor.
erfandl---- I am using the BD243C transistors on my setup. I'm also using two small breadboards instead of just one like what you showed. Perhaps that is the problem.Lidmotor, to getting best result please pass boost converter output wires from below of the L3 coil and tuning the coil with boost converter output wires by sliding it on L3 coil. dont use ferrite rod. like below picture
-----Lidmotor
Lidmotor: As you have an original Dr. Stiffler L3 coil, can you PLEASE count the number of turns it has on it. As I'd like to make a new L3, coil and don't want to just guess at the frequency response, as I don't have an SG that will work for that.
I don't want to be a nag, but I've asked you a couple of time for this info, perhaps you didn't see my previous questions.
All--Doc posted a new video where he is charging up a cap now with his 'Ring'. If you replicate this be careful that you short out ( or remove ) the cap when you are done playing around. I had a bad experience years ago when a HV cap charged up silently on one of these AV plugs. Doc's new 'Ring' is very potent. I tried mine on my crystal oscillator last night and it worked great. It should work on a Slayer Exciter also. Doc made a comment on my video that explained a lot. It seems that the 'Ring' is driven by voltage and a tiny amount of current. He say that the 'Ring' itself generates current.Thanks lidmotor. Is it possible to looping the circuit and using the cap as circuit source? so we have infinite light
Here is Doc's latest video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgKetMbQMGY&t=101s
NickZ---My stock SEC L3 coil is at another location. I will be there tomorrow and look at it. There was a discussion earlier about this and I explained what I was using but I understand why you want the specs on the stock coil. Someone earlier found the specs and posted it here as I recall. I don't remember what post that was.
erfandl--I did a similar experiment last night using my single crystal oscillator and the 'Ring'. Try putting more LEDs on the Ring or move to the cap experiment. Be careful if you are using an HV cap. It will bite you if care is not taken.
--Lidmotor
Hi Erfandl,Hi gyula. Thanks for reply. How many capacitor size ( uF )? I have 63 volt 10000 uF cap is it good for test?
For a possible test on looping back, I suggest you the followings:
you would need to obtain a step down DC-DC converter which is able to receive DC voltage from the capacitor (placed across the diode loop output) between say 25V and 100 or even 120 V and convert it to DC 12 or 24 V, etc.
Then this 12-24V output could feed your oscillator IF the diode loop could maintain a DC voltage level in the capacitor higher than say 25V. Understand?
Conventional science says such looped back setup would never work but there is only one way to learn: by testing it. Here is such converter, with adjustable output: https://www.ebay.com/itm/183258445232/
Gyula
....Dear Lidmotor,
Doc made a comment on my video that explained a lot. It seems that the 'Ring' is driven by voltage and a tiny amount of current. He says that the 'Ring' itself generates current.
...
Gyula---Doc made a pretty good comment on my last video explaining a lot. It is worth taking a look. Just scroll down the comments until you find it.
....
Well, the Doc said in the video he used a 450 uF, 200 V DC rated electrolytic.Thanks. and whats happening when I use supercapacitor 2.7 volt @ 500 farad? is it dangerous and make destroying the cap?
If you can assemble a 55 - 60 V Zener diode to limit the DC voltage across your 63V rated capacitor,
then it would be ok for a test. The Zener would protect the cap from overcharging it beyond its rated voltage.
Then you would need a DC-DC converter which can work up to the 55-60V DC input and step it down to your
oscillator needed voltage level. Obviously, as you load the 1000 uF cap, the voltage across it will go down, you will see.
Gyula
I just replicated Dr. Stiffler's latest experiment with the 'Loop'. It works.
I know what people are going to say to explain what is happening but I recommend that those with the right equipment replicate this simple experiment and see it first hand. It is pretty interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdWBj8Lyb1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdWBj8Lyb1g)
--Lidmotor
Thanks. and whats happening when I use supercapacitor 2.7 volt @ 500 farad? is it dangerous and makeWell, I suggest testing it but keep a DC voltmeter across the supercap to see first how fast
destroying the cap? Thanks.
Well, I suggest testing it but keep a DC voltmeter across the supercap to see first how fastThanks gyula. No problem I am careful. is germanium diods like AA119 increased the output voltage? I want to test it with germanium loop diods. the germanium diods ( AA119 ) can harvesting the wifi radiation and convert it to DC voltage and can running one LED at high brightness.
the diode loop is able to charge it? And when the 2.6 - 2.7 V DC level is reached then finish
charging unless you want to destroy it...
This suggestion is also valid for your 1000 uF, 63 V capacitor: no need for the Zener diode
protection directly across the capacitor if you always keep a DC voltmeter across it and you
continuously watch the voltage while testing.
If you have 5 pieces of 12 V Zener diodes, then they limit DC voltage across your 63 V cap at
roughly 60 V and bleed away any extra beyond that.
This will not be a loss when your looping is tested because the moment you connect the DC converter
across the capacitor, the 60V level will go down for sure. Notice that the converter I gave a link
to ebay finishes working under 30 V DC input to it, this can be a drawback.
Notice: I am not responsible for any damage your exploding capacitors may cause !! Be careful !!
erfandl you can get from old power supply 200v electric capacitorI'm using 4400 uF 50 volt cap its very fast charging with loop diodes.
Thanks gyula. No problem I am careful. is germanium diods like AA119 increased the output voltage? I want to test it with germanium loop diods. the germanium diods ( AA119 ) can harvesting the wifi radiation and convert it to DC voltage and can running one LED at high brightness.Hi Erfandl,
Gyula---Dr. Stiffler's post shows up at the top as a 'highlighted post'. He made the post 11 hours ago. The first part deals with RF and antennas. He later makes a statement about Close, Near, and Far field influence on the transmitter. The last statement is about the ring being driven by voltage and a tiny amount of current and that the ring itself is producing the current. It is that last statement that is really the important part of the post. Here is a link to my video again and his post should show up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdWBj8Lyb1g&lc=UgxZ6ealjfWzGYOVaL14AaABAg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdWBj8Lyb1g&lc=UgxZ6ealjfWzGYOVaL14AaABAg)Hi Lidmotor,
...
All - back to posting. We've had some interesting times here the past few days. Including, I passed my Citizenship test in Oklahoma City ;D
Just got the hand raised stuff to do now and i'll be American.
Thanks Mr. Hewitt :)I don't know too ! the circuit is pulling 307 mA from a 12 volt lead acid battery. the light brightness output is like when the bulb turned on with 220 volt input.
erfandl - I wonder how these are in sync with each other. Are they in sync, or overlaying at the same frequency ?
I probably missed it, but is the input wattage comparable/better than stock connections ?
It's a very neat idea !
Mikrovolt--- All the 1n4148 and LEDs are connected (+) (-) (+) (-) etc. You have one LED connected backward. Maybe it was just a typo. It is just one big ring of series connected diodes.Lidmotor - hmm I think the shorter L3 wind coil is working because my L3 coil is shorter than yours. I tested this circuit with Axial inductor but the circuit output performance is very poor. I suggest you testing with barrel inductor.
Erfandl-- I really want to build that. I just have not had much luck with it so far. I have all the parts but for some reason mine is not working like yours. I will keep trying.
---Lidmotor
Thanks for the suggestions guys,
the switching time of a 1N4148 and a BAT42 does not differ much (5ns), so need to find a faster diode for
to have any measurable difference i guess.
I did a quick time measurement of the current signal at both sides of the led entry, they differ 24.8ns.
So that implies that each diode add a time delay of 24.8 / 15 = 1.7ns, but this time delay does not build
up gradually, instead it kind of "jumps" from 0ns to 24.8ns after where the the L3 coil is positioned at the diode loop.
Itsu
Perhaps even more important than Vf is the switching time or reverse recovery time of the diode. The faster the diode the higher the operating frequency it can sustain, this is obvious, but what may be less obvious is that faster diodes will "capture" more of the peak of a waveform of even a lower frequency, thus resulting in a higher capacitor charge voltage. This is because the diode shuts off faster so doesn't allow as much reverse leakage out of the capacitor.
Another thing to try is to use a few LEDs in the loop instead of diodes all around. Use, say, three LEDs in series (to approximate the same total Vf of the full diode ring) and complete the ring with a simple wire, the same total length as the 1-LED, diodes all around, loop. A tiny little trimmer cap across the LEDs may help.
Perhaps even more important than Vf is the switching time or reverse recovery time of the diode. The faster the diode the higher the operating frequency it can sustain, this is obvious, but what may be less obvious is that faster diodes will "capture" more of the peak of a waveform of even a lower frequency, thus resulting in a higher capacitor charge voltage. This is because the diode shuts off faster so doesn't allow as much reverse leakage out of the capacitor.Hi TinselKoala,
Another thing to try is to use a few LEDs in the loop instead of diodes all around. Use, say, three LEDs in series (to approximate the same total Vf of the full diode ring) and complete the ring with a simple wire, the same total length as the 1-LED, diodes all around, loop. A tiny little trimmer cap across the LEDs may help.
Hi Erfandl,thanks Gyula. problem solved by reassemble the circuit
I assume you checked the diode's wire is not touching the metal body of the clip, see attached picture where I mean.
Try to insert an Ampermeter into the battery wire going to the oscillator to see whether the LED flashings are accompanied by a change in input current. If yes, then examine all the wire contacts plugged into the circuit board etc, look for bad contacts.
Worst case would be if the crystal inside would have started to develop a loose contact, if nothing else is found, use another crystal for the same oscillator to check it.
Gyula
Just guessing,
So to me this means that the diodes do not introduce any time delay, its the L3 coil which injects the
signal in the loop that somehow produces this.
Just guessing,
From what is shown on the scope the diodes remain in conduction. I am not certain but I don't see the presence of any 4-6 nS delay from junction turn off.
Interestingly in the case of L3 placement concentric to the loop there does appear to be lead lag as shown. The dynamics of the loop might be a circular wave guide
and the frequency drop might be the total reverse diode junction capacitance. Simlar to tuning miniature magnetic transmitting loop. Which makes me think that
a varicap or varactor insertion might show more effect on the frequency and some advantage possibly more interaction with the outer lattice having the original frequency.
Tnx, Joe
OK. What's the end of it now? Can we getting the free energy? Can we finding the universe energy secret? so what can we do with SEC? there is no more output than input. the nikola tesla do it a century ago.Go to "Gibbs free energy" and understand what seriously " free energy" in physics means !Then you will find probably yourself in the Angstroem-dimension,where the quantummechanik with hisown laws governate ! " electron tunneling" for example, nano- tube ambient.
Itsu-- I agree that at this point it is difficult to know which way Doc is going with his experiments. I found this video dealing with capacitive power transmission using just the signal from a function generator and it may apply to what we are looking at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YegIW-1hbvQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YegIW-1hbvQ)
NickZ--- It looks like you now have things working right. Any thoughts about it? What do you think is happening?
--Lidmotor
Hi Itsu,
Thank you for doing this test.
Would like to ask that out of the double loops have you checked the current waveform in any of the single loops how they look like? I ask this because your current probe embeds both of the loop wires simultenaously as you showed. I know the current should have the same shape (in theory) in both loops and I also think if there is some difference say in amplitude too, then it may come from the small differences in the diodes not being identical to the last mV. And very likely the current amplitude in any of the single loops is only half of the measured 2.85 mA RMS, can this be correct? (I mean the two loop currents seem to be summed via the common series LED boards.)
Nick, The LEDs are only taking in 2.5 V (to 2.7 V as the Doc mentioned) because the forward current flowing in the loop is only so small that it is able to bias the LEDs only that small voltage. A white LED needs about at least 3 V to 3.2 V forward voltage to give a decent brightness, this normally involves any forward current between say 10 mA and 20 mA for a single LED.
Notice that the 4 V forward voltage you wrote would already overdrive a normal white LED and kill it in a short time. MAximum a 3.5 or 3.6 V should be involved.
Obviously, the near or close field from L3 coil is not high enough (maybe yet) to create the 3 to 3.2 V forward voltage which would involve the higher loop current hence the higher brightness, I agree with you.
I think Itsu drove the earlier single loops with DC input voltage to compare it to the measured AC loop current and he found them within ball park to have similar brightness. (If I do not recall this correctly, then Itsu surely chime in.)So simply there is still not enough RF juice to drive the loops.
Here I have to mention the Doc's 'explanation' on the LED self capacitance which would provide the current for each LED so that the brightness should come from the potential the self capacitance continuously picks up from the field and discharges it via its own LED, this may or may not be correct. To check this, you would need to connect a small value capacitor across each LEDs to see any change in brightness. The small value cap could be say a 22 pF or 47 pF for each LED in parallel. OF course I may be mistaken with this latter.
Gyula
Doing final check on the parts to be used in the loop distance test. There will be no single wire, test will be through the earth only.
Nick, okay on the as high as even 100V from the crystal oscillator but let me ask: what DC voltage amplitude would be needed for your LEDs to get what you consider already as full brightness, did you check it too? Your 10 LEDs in series may need say 31 - 33 V DC to operate with full brightness from a DC supply I would think and then the current draw would be say around 15-20 mA ? (If you check this, make sure to use a few kOhm resistor in series with the LEDs to protect them from extra current draw.)
Now I assume that when you use an L3 coil that creates the near field (rather than the choke coil in the collector), then you make sure that the L3 coil should be spot on the crystal frequency, otherwise the use of L3 has not much advantage. You surely know that anything near to L3 may detune it. And if you use a ferrite piece to fine tune L3 then the core material should have low loss at the crystal frequency. RF powder iron toroids could be used if you slip them close next to each other onto a piece of plastic or wooden rod. Such RF toroids I mean:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/282774499025 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/282774499025) and data sheet http://toroids.info/T50-6.php (http://toroids.info/T50-6.php)
Of course these cores when you push them into an L3 coil, then L3 in itself should have already a higher resonant frequency than the crystal frequency so that the cores could reduce the original coil frequency. Also, when any so called 'top load' is connected to the floating free end of L3, it also reduces coil frequency, so the use of the cores should be considered accordingly, may be some turns should be removed. Sorry if you know all these fine tuning details though, and your thought on the match between the oscillator and L3 coil is correct.
The energy to light the LEDs should come from the RF field the L3 coil produces from the oscillator. Unfortunately, this is a lossy conversion process: one is the DC input to the oscillator (oscillator conversion efficiency), the other is (radiation efficiency of L3) the field of coil L3 is all over in its vicinity in quasi every direction in the near space i.e. the field is not concentrated solely for the LED boards and / or LED wires, it is spread over in quasi every direction, the strongest field being around the top end of the coil where the voltage maximum should be.
Itsu, Many thanks for checking the two loop currents, that is how I thought.
Gyula
The latest video has piqued interest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66KTJGlbKmM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66KTJGlbKmM)
Dr. Stiffler is using a 12V SLA, a SEC circuit, a couple of L3's, a 100ohm resistor, the diode loop and the Cree board.
What I like is the description underneath:
Outdoors through the earth...exactly what many have been stuck on, including myself most frustratingly for years.
Hi Itsu,
I wonder why your setup peaks around 9 MHz when driven from the FG instead of the 13.5MHz the oscillator provides, the difference sounds too high at first.
Could it be due to the oscillator output being a high impedance source while the FG has the usual 50 Ohm low impedance output and the "shunting" effect of the latter via the overall stray capacitances of the 'enviroment' (the lattice as the Doc would put it) can have such a high detuning behaviour? Well, maybe this is the case.
I assume that none of two L3 coils can be tuned individually by a small piece of ferrite rod to increase brightness any further, once the oscillator tank capacitor is set to the maximum light: this would insure the two L3 is in resonance around 13.5 MHz.
In case the coils would need tuning towards a little higher frequency, then try to use a piece of Alu or copper rod (say with a few mm OD and 10-15 mm long) because they will have the effect of increasing coil resonant frequency (versus the normal decreasing effect of a ferromagnetic core).
And if this same could be found for the case when the FG drives the two L3 coils, then my assumption would be correct, otherwise not.
Notice in the Doc's latest video the two L3 coils are placed far enough from each other length wise, your coils have parallel axis, this gives higher chance for mutual coupling than that the Doc's coils position. I mean there is a higher 'built-in detuning' possibility in your arrangement for the two coils (but this may not be a drawback).
Thanks for the video.
Gyula
All--I'm not sure now that a 'Ring Modulator' is like the 'Stiffler Loop'. The Ring Modulator (like Gyula mentioned) is all about mixing two input signals. We are dealing with just one here. It was perhaps a trip down a rabbit hole. That was an interesting idea but maybe a waste of time to pursue that explanation.
Slider----Yep. If Doc lights up an LED panel stuck in the ground more than about 6 inches away from the SEC----- I will be surprised also.
---Lidmotor
its actually out side /away from inside ambient power source thru the ground on "flea power "
with no wires at all ,not sure of the distance Doc will be showing tho
8) love it, competing methods.
Brad, yours is closer to Tesla's frequencies, Dr. Stiffler's is something he also seems confident in.
I've tried bunches of methods and there's no issue indoors in tubs of soil. Some probably work outdoors, with a healthy truckload of salt in the earth. But that would see as much mayhem from critters as TK's wind up zapper !
Up to now, I think what Lidmotor is also saying is that there is a heavy attenuation when the actual ground outside is the connecting wire. It's no way a huge flat copper sheet surrounding the Earth from experiments so far.
Stubblefield had that problem when moving from a field in nowhere land, to a built up city.
But, is that because the wrong frequencies have been used, not deep enough ground stakes, mismatched TX and RX with the wrong range of tunings, what ?
At this point I just want to finally replicate the scene in the film The Prestige and don't really care how I get there ;D
From the Doc's latest video, he should have his lathe sorted pretty soon.
The race is on.
Gyula - The extra coil ?Actually there are only two coils in that drawing. It's an "ordinary" Tesla coil, with primary, grounded secondary, and topload.The ground plate is connected to the bottom of a portion of the secondary that is directly underneath and closely coupled to the primary.The top of this portion is connected to, or rather is simply continuous with, the rest of the air-core helical resonator. The structure at the top is Tesla's huge surface-area toroidal construction.
Hi Itsu,
You did succeed in making things clearer with your kind tests. This setup looks simple, yet needs background knowledge and some useful pieces of measuring instrument to explore it and still there surely remain areas to be explored and understood.
When an L3 coil is driven by an FG at the correct quarter wave frequency, a voltage maximum develops at the top of the coil, this is the basic desirable situation. Now if a second identical L3 is driven from the top of the first L3, then how the voltage maximum changes on the first and how it can develop on the top of the second L3: the desirable situation would be that the second L3 could enhance the voltage to a higher level than what is on the top of the first L3. Like a "two stage amplifier" would do it. I am not sure yet whether this can be done, this is why I mentioned for this case the individual checking of the two coils with both ferromagnetic and Alu or copper cores.
I can be wrong with this, of course.
A sidenote: why the Doc used a resistor to connect the two L3 coils in series, why not directly? Maybe to reduce current between the two coils hence the loading influence.
Anyway, thanks for your efforts.
Gyula
Thanks for all the info Brad and Gyula.
Have done some tests this afternoon and, as usual things are abysmal :-\
I was at 1ft separation and then realised i'd got the power source in my hand. Dropping it extinguished the receiver output.
Am using a 3.7V to 5V converter, out to the variable booster to run at 9V for the moment. MPS6834 seems to do a better job than an MPSA06, because with the other the SEC 18 LED doesn't come on when the L3 is connected to the ground. The MPS6834 will be used until it kills itself with heat, which seems to be another trait of outdoors running. 40mA is the average current draw.
What I seem to find is that tuning to the highest power draw also shows the best receiver output.
12V at 3A is about where things may start working, that's my thinking. Oh and a decent storm. Can't tickle the ground and am sure those worms don't exit laughing !
Update - another observation. I thought my ground was disconnected from the wire up to ground level.
Have got 4x 8ft copper or steel pipes buried in a square for the Dollard radio challenge, so tried another that I never did do properly. It's not far below ground level but was ideal for testing this. It still didn't work.
Corrosion ?
Nope. Connecting the receiver board directly to it, with the SEC 18 clip leaded to the actual pipe and completely nothing :o
What's the mass of the pipe doing to kill everything ?
Is it a huge difference in frequencies going on ? perhaps the large ground pulls down the resonance of the SEC 18 to 400Hz or something.
Will try a regular AV plug.
Short video explanation and demonstration.
https://youtu.be/8ejFmOG7NLc
Okay, what the field strength indicator shows as an ever increasing voltage amplitude up to the top of the 2nd L3 coil seems convincing: you have the quarter wave resonance, when the two coils are not wound continuously into a single continuous winding but a certain separation splits it up into two separate windings.
I noticed as if the field strength around the 1st L3 coil reduced, when you shorted the 100 Ohm: your VU meter did not show the half scale deflection at the end of the 1st L3, maybe you did not touch the diodes wire to the enamelled (i.e. insulated) coil wire close enough like earlier? But when you continued to the start of the 2nd L3 the half scale deflection returned. You surely checked this more than once that in this respect the resistor has no (visible) role.
You may have checked this also when did the frequency sweep with the tracking generator I suppose, in theory the 100 Ohm may reduce the Q quality factor of the two coils.
By the way, the two peaks are interesting and are rather far from each other, where do they come from, what creates them? If you space the two coils at a higher distance from each other, do these peaks change in frequency? Or you insert a ferrit piece into one of the coils do the peaks change? Sorry to advise some further tasks for you... :-[
Thanks for all you are doing.
Gyula
Tuned resonant inductive coupling:and the circuit ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-hl2W86yk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-hl2W86yk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhBgAAJUPsw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhBgAAJUPsw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5wbyAwgeO8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5wbyAwgeO8)
Another update from Partzman's ongoing investigationThe fact that the big "OU" only shows up at the fastest sweep rate is telling. More samples for the scope to average = less "OU", until finally the COP approaches unity.
Partzman
Quote
These test variations use three paralleled diodes for each bridge element to raise the capacitance of each leg and C1 is changed to 1.98uf as seen in the schematic below. The tests were run at 2.2MHz and 2.3 MHz for comparison. The test protocol has also changed in that eight samples are averaged with C1 discharged between each sample as this seems to yield more consistent measurement results.
Input and output scope pix measurements at 50ms are attached for examples plus the data tables for each frequency.
Regards,
Pm
The fact that the big "OU" only shows up at the fastest sweep rate is telling. More samples for the scope to average = less "OU", until finally the COP approaches unity.
Here below is my latest video. Capacitive coupling on both the LED boards being feed by myHi Nick,
13.56MHz crystal oscillator. Running on 24v from 2 12v, 7aH batteries. Both led bulbs are flashlight
or emergency light bulbs, in which all the leds are in parallel, (not series connected), to light at 4v full on.
So, these are not 120v type bulbs, although the long led board came off of a 120v grid rechargeable system.The oscillator can't provide the full 4v
to light all the leds, fully. YET. https://youtu.be/meFHQzR59FY (https://youtu.be/meFHQzR59FY)
@Partzman:
How do you interpret the negative COP values? What are the consequences of a negative COP?
Itsu: Can your set up light up a neon bulb? What voltage are you using at the input. What do you get at the output?
Sorry, but one more question. How many turns are your L3 coils, tuned to 13.MHz.
Itsu--- I think this is where Doc was going but with this new 'Loop' and Cree Board. Why he thought he could transmit through the earth instead of the other way around is the mystery.Well, Tesla's patents are not for the faint of heart...
--Lidmotor
TK,I'm not so sure I agree that negative COP = infinite COP. That seems to go in the wrong direction somehow. Since it happens because _input_ power is negative, doesn't that mean that the device is supplying power to the PSU instead of the other way around?
My interpretation of a negative COP is infinite COP and a negative COP is the result of a measured negative input energy.
The consequence of such a device would be runaway into destruction unless limited.I think I do agree on that, with some provisos.
The real question is, are the measurements accurate?Agreed. There may be other reasons to reject the measurements than simply the measurements themselves. And even accurate measurements can be misinterpreted, or even be irrelevant, as we've learned before. I think I'd like to know a lot more about how the scope does measurements and calculations on those measurements before I write home to Mom about the extra Joules in the box.
Regards,
Pm
As mentioned yesterday, i build myself a SEC 18-x, i think, as that was what was seen as an exciter in the Doc
his latest now removed video.
I tried severall transistors (i do not have the required MPSA06), but out of a MPSA18, a 2N2222a and a 2SC4027
this last one performs the best.
This SEC 18-x oscillates around 7mhz with a single L3 coil, but when attaching the 2th L3 coil with the 100 Ohm
resistor we see an old frequency pop up on the scope with the probe just laying near by; the 23MHz signal.
Not a nice sine wave, but its there.
Input 12.15V @ 44.8mA (0.54W)
Output 18.5V rms @ 16mA rms (0.3W) (ledstrip)
The SA shows the 21Mhz signal as strongest, see screenshot.
will do some further tests with this setup.
Itsu
NickZ---I wouldn't throw away you crystal oscillator yet. If nothing else it is a good learning tool. Mine will light up a neon and almost blind me using a 110v LED array at 21v. I am with you about using regular 'Exciters' though as better drivers. Both Slider and I are now trying pancake style coils with a simple Slayer Exciter circuit.Lidmotor:
What Doc is about to try will be very interesting.
Here is my video from June where I used my crystal oscillator to light up a neon using just a 9v battery as the source. My laptop O-Scope has been handy analyzing the thing and proving that the oscillator does produce a voltage spike similar to a regular SEC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J95knDhEHZI&t=43s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J95knDhEHZI&t=43s)
-----Lidmotor
NickZ-- That is great news. Gyula was telling me that the two L3 coils setup a mutual induction in a certain way that makes this happen. I don't really understand it very well but it seem to work quite nicely.
Congratulations. Now where do we go? I don't have a clue. I'm just waiting on Doc to see what he does next with the earth ground setup.
----- Lidmotor
Please forgive the intrusion,but as i am new here,i was wondering if some one could point me in the right direction.
I am seeking topics/and/or discussions related to the displacement of electrons via static magnetic fields through P/N junctions.
Also seeking topics/and/or discussions on ferromagnetic induction via accelerated mass.
Thank you in advance.
Christie.
In this thread Dr. Stiffler's experimental methods are used (kind of) toward applications such as leds arrays using RF in wireless open media.
Other topics include exciter trouble shooting, static field modulation experiment, Stiffler loop, sec, psec.
The scope of the question is extremely large. accelerated mass, nope. also not covered here
Basics of P and N junctions exposed to static or electromagnetic typically focus on lorentz, miller and hall effects within the semiconductor media.
However the list of keywords found in discussions can expand profoundly in various applications, patents, medical, biological, nuclear, hard drives ect ect ect.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19690027332.pdf
recent scientific discoveries July 22, 2015
http://www.andrewfyfe.com.au/editorial-cartoons/recent-scientific-discoveries/
i was referring to the likes of photovoltaic cells,where magnetic fields are used to knock electrons through the P/N junction rather than photons.
Christie.
Guys:
Looks like the Doc has gone off in a different direction, again. Nothing more about the ground transmission... as Lidmotor had suggested, it probably didn't work as expected. Now, he has come out with this new "Cloud coil" charging a big capacitor, and lighting a car tail light bulb, for a few seconds.
WTF? https://youtu.be/c5uAA2ieTnY (https://youtu.be/c5uAA2ieTnY)
Gyula: To your suggestion I am now working on a series connected led bulb set up. But, not really getting any better light output than with the parallel led bulb placements.
I can now light several ( 8) leds in series, from a 120v led bulb, but not really getting any more lumins, than I was before. I have not taken a reading on the individual bulbs, yet, but I will. Still working on all this.
I am getting 4 8.5w 120v led bulbs brought to me from the U.S., but will have to wait about two more weeks to get them. They are not the Cree bulbs, so I'm not sure they will have the metal back plate. I hope that they do, but I won't know until I gut them.
Itsu: How are you making out? Are you getting good light output from your series connected leds ? It's hard to tell from your video. Did the MPSA06 transistor actually work better, to produce more lumins than your previous transistors, or not?
I'm still struggling to obtain any kind use able light from this type of set up. Hopefully the 120v bulbs that I've ordered will work better in this respect.
Mikrovolt and iQuest ---- Thanks for posting on Dr. Stiffler's SEC formula. The question now is ----what do you and the other math folks think about it? Doc had a bunch of comments on that video but he has deleted them now. One of them was about 'Comb Generators' and Doc gave this link to an article about them. https://destevez.net/2016/01/building-the-g0mrf-comb-generator/ (https://destevez.net/2016/01/building-the-g0mrf-comb-generator/)Well, does the math make sense? Do a "units" or dimensional analysis. The units of Znought used here are OHMS. That is, Znought is 120pi OHMS of impedance. The speed of light, c, used here is in meters/sec I believe (approx 300000000 m/sec). So if you just blindly multiply all the numbers together without units you do get the "frequency" numbers in the list. But do the units actually work out to give a "frequency"? We have ohms times (c meters/sec)/1million, times 2pi again... I don't know if that actually equals a frequency.
Based on those 'Lv odd integer frequencies' that you posted iQuest perhaps a SEC circuit does act like a comb generator.
I'm just guessing. Math was almost my minor in college but I have forgotten all of it over time. Use it or lose it really does apply to that subject.
--Lidmotor
https://youtu.be/lnvC-BnS_XA (https://youtu.be/lnvC-BnS_XA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_WfCwJW0Og (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_WfCwJW0Oghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIAdCTNi1S8)Here is the link to the video in the second line above, it somehow got chained to the first link and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIAdCTNi1S8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_WfCwJW0Oghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIAdCTNi1S8)
https://youtu.be/lnvC-BnS_XA (https://youtu.be/lnvC-BnS_XA)Hi Nick,
Hi Nick,
Good progress, congratulations.
Regarding the 5 + 5 diodes in series: I guess you may have tested the setup with only 1 +1 diode in the loop too?
If yes, did you find reduced brightness? Another measure of this change would be the DC voltage check across the LEDs
as you mentioned in the video (was around 34 V).
Gyula
Guyula Hi on this thread the coil looks as if it's wound with copper wire, as different materials have different rates of conductance flow time, have you any experience or now of and reference to using such different materials in this type of circuit as copper wire wasn't so easy to come by 100 years ago, interested in your views.Hi AlienGrey,
regards AG
Do you mean the high EM field fools the meter and the display fluctuates? Some more details please.
... I'm unable to obtain a current reading on my multi meter at the oscillator circuit's input.
Do you mean the high EM field fools the meter and the display fluctuates? Some more details please.Gyula:
Gyula: Yes, it was the 22pF ceramic cap, it looked fine, but was dead. Thanks for the tip about the heat affecting them.
I have blown my share of transistors on this test circuit, and that's probably what fired the cap, when the transistors blow.
Those little pF caps are of mayor importance, in the overall output seen at the bulbs. As well as the transistors that are chosen. I'm still looking for best right one (transistor), that can cut it. Even the crystals starts to heat up when using higher voltages.But, from what I've seen in almost All of these circuits is, that the transistors overheat, and the output is weak. That's what I'm working on to improve.
Kelvin values, yes. Thanks again. The 2700 value warm white, G.E 8.5 watt led bulbs are great, and can also be dimmed. However, I think that the filament type bulbs are the future of leds. There are some in a square shape, that are in laid on a glass frame. 12w, 1000 lumins and higher. And some LEDs are now being produced up to 100w or higher, but, I don't think that I needs those, just yet. My crystal oscillator wouldn't know what to do with them...
Itsu: Did the MPSA06 actuallly perform any better than some of the other transistors that you've tried? Which transistor has provided the best output at the bulbs? What value trim pot do you use on the base circuit of your oscillator?
I need to find a transistor that will hold up to higher voltages. As all the ones that I've used are too limiting, they overheat or don't provide much output, if I try to control the overheating at higher voltages.
I may try to connect one of my L3 coils to my Kacher circuit. What do you think will happen?...
Can a crystal powered Kacher circuit be made? That has the power of the Kacher circuit, but runs on the crystal frequency.
Or is that like trying to upscale, in the wrong way?
Tito says that the receiving circuit needs to be different that the transmitting circuit. Maybe he has a point?
Lidmotor: How would you loop the Docs circuits to self run??? I know that you've played around with that idea, before.So, Please share you thoughts and ideas, on that.
Slider: Are you on vacation?
I have a 37 meter earth ground line going from my work bench (kitchen table), to my water well. And another 37m ground line from the well to my bench. So, over 70 meters long in total for both. Do you think that I can light my AC led bulb at my well, through this ground line? And perhaps, even return the output through the second ground line going back to my work bench, to light some bulbs, there? 70 meters total distance... Forget about the well, for now, as it's just a grounding source.
I may try to connect one of my L3 coils to my Kacher circuit. What do you think will happen?...
Can a crystal powered Kacher circuit be made? That has the power of the Kacher circuit, but runs on the crystal frequency.
Or is that like trying to upscale, in the wrong way?
Tito says that the receiving circuit needs to be different that the transmitting circuit. Maybe he has a point?
I see that Slider has been all ready willing and able since Aug. 10, with his Dr. Stiffler diode loop, SEC circuits and L3 coils.Yeah! sure he did but the earth was the return wasn't it !
Waiting for the Doc to show the next step.
Itsu and Lidmotor, are also waiting for the continuation of this project.
Me too... What would happen if we just stick the oscillator circuit's L3 coil end, in the ground??? Slider? Still on vacation?
Tesla, is showing that it's possible to light incandescent bulbs by just screwing them into the ground...
https://youtu.be/q0i67E48OV0
I just had enough 1n4148 diodes to complete this dual loop setup (2x 16 diodes), so i decided to replicate Stiffler his latest setup.
2x leds strip in series with a single led inbetween, driven by 2 diode loops 16 diodes each (1n4148), powered by the L3 coil via 2 100nF caps.
It seems indeed that each led (strip) is taking what it needs to just turn on, 2.57V for the single led, ±21V for each ledstrip.
Screenshot shows the voltage (yellow) across the single led, current (green) in the input line to the leds.
Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ab55U4sQ8E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ab55U4sQ8E)
Itsu: Thanks for posting that link to your double loop video. I had missed it, before.
However, the 2.57v output is not what the Doc had mentioned should be taking place with the "double loop".
He was talking about what happens in parallel placement (2.7v), but not with the series placement.
Series connection of the leds should provide for the higher voltages. Higher than the 2.5 to 2.7v parallel placement.
In any case you did have the double loop working, although not to any use able degree, from what I can see from that video.In order to see some use able light, we need to have the leds turning on at close to their normal 3.7v voltages. Which I haven't seen even the Doc showing, as yet. But, it's hard to evaluate the bulb brightness from looking at videos.
The main thing is that the double loop did not improve the voltages across each led, in your video, and the brightness is still not what it should be. So, I think that this point needs to be addressed.
Another thing is that, shouldn't the two caps at the loops (0.1uf) be 0.01uf instead? But I don't know if that will make any difference. Nor do I know if that is correct, or not, as the diagram in the double loop video was too blurry to read.
If we can't get any higher voltages from these tests, I don't see how this can be anything that can be of practical use.
There were a lot of active members, I think they might be hibernating, like the Doc.yeah it's right. I'm charging a 120 volt capacitor only with 24 volt. also it's automatic cut off the voltage
What I've sean is that the " Diode Loop" idea or possible secret discovered by Dr. Stiffler, works.It can help to increase the voltage, and the near field effects, compared to just an exciter oscillator and L3 coil.At times I got some unloaded voltages at the diode loop of 183v, or so. Using 24v input, and running on very low wattage input. Guessing around 100 to 150mAs.I have a new meter ordered and coming soon, the one I have is not working. I think that the idea here is to tune the coil(s) and oscillator to be in the best sync possible.That is easier said than done. But if they are not right on the money, little chance of self running, etz.