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Author Topic: Free energy from watter - a review of research  (Read 1823 times)

Offline Zephir

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Free energy from watter - a review of research
« on: April 22, 2017, 08:08:06 AM »
Nearly all devices involving water were reported with overunity, if we order them by energy density scale:

1) free flow wheel (Bhaskara)
2) bubble buoyancy generator (GAIA ROSCH and older ones)
3) cavitation heaters
4) water combustion engine (Meyer)
5) dozen kHz water membrane generator
6) 13.56 MHz radiowaves (Roychowdhury, Kanzius)
7) 2.5 GHz microwaves (Vaks, Zographos)
8 ) 0.6 - 200 MHz discharge (Energoniva)
9) low voltage/high current discharge (Brilliant Light)
10) plasma electrolysis (Mizuno, Bazhutov, etc.)

If these devices all work at least under specific circumstances, then there is low probability, that the very same mechanism will be involved at all these cases. I can see some similarity between negentropic behavior of magnetic domains in ferrite OU devices and small bubbles (oversaturation, hysteresis and size dependence).

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Offline Zephir

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Re: Free energy from watter - a review of research
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 08:10:33 AM »
Interesting overunity (?) device based on high voltage & frequency pulses introduced to membrane for reverse osmosis with COP > 120. Device is able to heat 500 grams of water from 22 ° C - 93 ° C during 720 seconds with using of battery input 1.7 Watts. Average life-time of membrane is 35 minutes. YT videos 1, 2. This device wetted my interest, as it show the way, how to do plasma electrolysis without actually doing a plasma. As you can imagine, during plasma electrolysis lotta energy gets wasted for formation of vapor film at the electrode and its ionization. This film is necessary for reaching sufficiently high electrostatic gradient, but its formation costs lotta energy. In addition, high frequency spikes are formed with less or more random interruption of arc discharge by cooling of film, which isn't apparently the way, in which the optimal frequency and voltage could be adjusted easily and precisely.

The main secret of this device is apparently the semipermeable membrane used. The usage of deionized water of lowest conductivity as possible is recommended, as it would enable to localize the electrostatic potential and avoid shortcuts. The voltage used is AC only without any DC component and from audioanalysis of video it seems, the frequency used is somewhere around 10 kHz. Such a voltage can be generated easily with AC source for ozonizers. Bellow is commonly accessible wholesale kit for reverse osmosis, IMO it could be directly used as an improvised reactor, once you solve the removal of excessive heat produced in it. Membrane must be kept wet after first usage, or it could be destroyed during drying.


The membranes for reverse osmosis can be purchased easily too. The nice point about commercial reverse osmosis membranes is, they're already designed pretty well like the heat exchanger. In addition, they enable to insulate electrical inputs each other very well. The drawback is, they have high surface area. In the above demo, just one square centimeter of membrane is able to work with 2 Watt input. Whereas even the smallest commercial units have surface area by many orders of magnitude larger - around 0.45 m2 i.e. 4.500 cm2. One of possible solution is to use the filter unit in its original form, but to load it in pulsed regime with duty cycle within range 1:100 to 1:1000. The commercially avialable power sources of carbon dioxide lasers are able to manage it with TTL logic.

Offline alpersddk

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Re: Free energy from watter - a review of research
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2017, 10:08:56 AM »
Interesting overunity (?) device based on high voltage & frequency pulses introduced to membrane for reverse osmosis with COP > 120. Device is able to heat 500 grams of water from 22 ° C - 93 ° C during 720 seconds with using of battery input 1.7 Watts. Average life-time of membrane is 35 minutes. YT videos 1, 2. This device wetted my interest, as it show the way, how to do plasma electrolysis without actually doing a plasma. As you can imagine, during plasma electrolysis lotta energy gets wasted for formation of vapor film at the electrode and its ionization. This film is necessary for reaching sufficiently high electrostatic gradient, but its formation costs lotta energy. In addition, high frequency spikes are formed with less or more random interruption of arc discharge by cooling of film, which isn't apparently the way, in which the optimal frequency and voltage could be adjusted easily and precisely.

The main secret of this device is apparently the semipermeable membrane used. The usage of deionized water of lowest conductivity as possible is recommended, as it would enable to localize the electrostatic potential and avoid shortcuts. The voltage used is AC only without any DC component and from audioanalysis of video it seems, the frequency used is somewhere around 10 kHz. Such a voltage can be generated easily with AC source for ozonizers. Bellow is commonly accessible wholesale kit for reverse osmosis, IMO it could be directly used as an improvised reactor, once you solve the removal of excessive heat produced in it. Membrane must be kept wet after first usage, or it could be destroyed during drying.


The membranes for reverse osmosis can be purchased easily too. The nice point about commercial reverse osmosis membranes is, they're already designed pretty well like the heat exchanger. In addition, they enable to insulate electrical inputs each other very well. The drawback is, they have high surface area. In the above demo, just one square centimeter of membrane is able to work with 2 Watt input. Whereas even the smallest commercial units have surface area by many orders of magnitude larger - around 0.45 m2 i.e. 4.500 cm2. One of possible solution is to use the filter unit in its original form, but to load it in pulsed regime with duty cycle within range 1:100 to 1:1000. The commercially avialable power sources of carbon dioxide lasers are able to manage it with TTL logic.
I will try it if you write building instructions..

Alper

Offline Zephir

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Re: Free energy from watter - a review of research
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2017, 02:30:18 AM »
Hi Alper, the original demonstration utilizes very clean (deionized) water for to eliminate ohmic loses and a simple reactor represented with short plastic pipe. The reactor is separated with membrane for desalination of water by reverse osmosis, which one can buy at many places of the web as a wholesale kit (see bellow). The membrane is pressed/glued into a hole at the middle of pipe and inert electrodes (stainless steel or preferably platinum) are leading voltage bellow and above the membrane. All the rest of electrodes must be indeed insulated well for to avoid short circuit through water outside the electrodes.

I even think, that it has a meaning to use the whole kit as it is, because it's perfectly nonconducting and it allows to introduce the high voltage at both sides of membrane simply by inserting the inert wire electrodes (not iron, aluminium or other metals clogging the membranes) into its outlets. The membrane must be washed carefully from salt residues after manufacture and soaked with water according to instructions for its normal usage. Because the membrane will have high resistance and ohmic loses after then, the kit must be passed with clean water for to provide sufficient cooling of it.  The main problem will be, you'll need a very powerful high voltage source for to maintain sufficient voltage across the membrane due to its large surface area inside the kit - so you'll have to apply it in short pulses.

Therefore for first fast experiment may be easier to cut a smaller piece (circle) of membrane and use it in stationary arrangement, as demonstrated at the video above. Whole the device is powered with high frequency source of high voltage, which you can also buy ready made. IMO the voltage source for ozonizers could also work well. The video says, that if we introduce this voltage into desalination membrane, then it will heat itself with power much higher, than the power consumption of this circuit.


This device has interesting connection to Dudyshev's patent, which claims to produce the HHO mixture (Brown gas) with overunity with using of electro capillary effect. Therefore with using of DC current instead of AC it may be possible to produce hydrogen instead of just heat with overunity.


Offline alpersddk

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Re: Free energy from watter - a review of research
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2017, 02:56:54 PM »
Hi Alper, the original demonstration utilizes very clean (deionized) water for to eliminate ohmic loses and a simple reactor represented with short plastic pipe. The reactor is separated with membrane for desalination of water by reverse osmosis, which one can buy at many places of the web as a wholesale kit (see bellow). The membrane is pressed/glued into a hole at the middle of pipe and inert electrodes (stainless steel or preferably platinum) are leading voltage bellow and above the membrane. All the rest of electrodes must be indeed insulated well for to avoid short circuit through water outside the electrodes.

I even think, that it has a meaning to use the whole kit as it is, because it's perfectly nonconducting and it allows to introduce the high voltage at both sides of membrane simply by inserting the inert wire electrodes (not iron, aluminium or other metals clogging the membranes) into its outlets. The membrane must be washed carefully from salt residues after manufacture and soaked with water according to instructions for its normal usage. Because the membrane will have high resistance and ohmic loses after then, the kit must be passed with clean water for to provide sufficient cooling of it.  The main problem will be, you'll need a very powerful high voltage source for to maintain sufficient voltage across the membrane due to its large surface area inside the kit - so you'll have to apply it in short pulses.

Therefore for first fast experiment may be easier to cut a smaller piece (circle) of membrane and use it in stationary arrangement, as demonstrated at the video above. Whole the device is powered with high frequency source of high voltage, which you can also buy ready made. IMO the voltage source for ozonizers could also work well. The video says, that if we introduce this voltage into desalination membrane, then it will heat itself with power much higher, than the power consumption of this circuit.


This device has interesting connection to Dudyshev's patent, which claims to produce the HHO mixture (Brown gas) with overunity with using of electro capillary effect. Therefore with using of DC current instead of AC it may be possible to produce hydrogen instead of just heat with overunity.
Why membrane is glowing at the video,if there is no plasma discharge? Thanks.
https://youtu.be/bxWuo2GCkrQ?t=891

Alper
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 08:03:53 PM by alpersddk »

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Re: Free energy from watter - a review of research
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2017, 02:56:54 PM »
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Offline alpersddk

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Re: Free energy from watter - a review of research
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2017, 08:14:30 PM »
Hi Alper, the original demonstration utilizes very clean (deionized) water for to eliminate ohmic loses and a simple reactor represented with short plastic pipe. The reactor is separated with membrane for desalination of water by reverse osmosis, which one can buy at many places of the web as a wholesale kit (see bellow). The membrane is pressed/glued into a hole at the middle of pipe and inert electrodes (stainless steel or preferably platinum) are leading voltage bellow and above the membrane. All the rest of electrodes must be indeed insulated well for to avoid short circuit through water outside the electrodes.

I even think, that it has a meaning to use the whole kit as it is, because it's perfectly nonconducting and it allows to introduce the high voltage at both sides of membrane simply by inserting the inert wire electrodes (not iron, aluminium or other metals clogging the membranes) into its outlets. The membrane must be washed carefully from salt residues after manufacture and soaked with water according to instructions for its normal usage. Because the membrane will have high resistance and ohmic loses after then, the kit must be passed with clean water for to provide sufficient cooling of it.  The main problem will be, you'll need a very powerful high voltage source for to maintain sufficient voltage across the membrane due to its large surface area inside the kit - so you'll have to apply it in short pulses.

Therefore for first fast experiment may be easier to cut a smaller piece (circle) of membrane and use it in stationary arrangement, as demonstrated at the video above. Whole the device is powered with high frequency source of high voltage, which you can also buy ready made. IMO the voltage source for ozonizers could also work well. The video says, that if we introduce this voltage into desalination membrane, then it will heat itself with power much higher, than the power consumption of this circuit.


This device has interesting connection to Dudyshev's patent, which claims to produce the HHO mixture (Brown gas) with overunity with using of electro capillary effect. Therefore with using of DC current instead of AC it may be possible to produce hydrogen instead of just heat with overunity.
Hi Zephir,i finded a video which is seems very same to russian device.But there is no membrane.Also both of them generates abnormally heat and uses H.V.
Here is the link of the video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iiWGel3q50

Offline Zephir

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Re: Free energy from watter - a review of research
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 12:24:38 AM »
Quote from: Alper
Why membrane is glowing at the video,if there is no plasma discharge? Thanks.  https://youtu.be/bxWuo2GCkrQ?t=891

Hi Alper, this is indeed a good insight and a question. The story of this finding is, it has been accidentally revealed by Russian expert working in research of desalination technology in Dubai, who attempted to increase the speed of desalination process with external electric voltage introduced onto a membrane. He wasn't successful with it - but he observed an anomalous heat production instead. I believe that the overunity effect is the special result of narrow membrane pores, which would force the water molecules to reorient itself and to collide in one-dimensional manner within nanopores. My theory is, an avalanche-like effect analogous to famous Astroblaster toy is what it applies there and what amplifies the amount of heat produced due to repeated breaking and recombination of water molecules. In this extent the reading of anomalous heat during hydrogen recombination may be of certain interest there. I therefore think, that this device may not run on principle of cold fusion, as its source implies.

If the plasma would be the actual source of anomalous heat, then no special osmotic membrane would be actually necessary and every cheap porous membrane or sintered glass filter (see bellow) could be used instead, because the heat would be formed across plasma layer above and bellow the membrane - not within pores of membrane and the type of pores or membrane will be irrelevant. The ceramic membranes would be more stable and as such more suitable in this type of reactor after then. The video source says, that the osmotic membrane survives just an half of hour in the experiment, after then the heat production ceases down and the membrane must be replaced. This could serve as another indicia, that the heat production actually runs inside the pores - not within plasma outside the membrane - but this assumption should be still subject of future research.

The plasma electrolysis at electrode is commonly used in cold fusion research, but its energy yields aren't as high in general. What I think is, that the plasma has been demonstrated at the end of video when the water was already boiling. Under such a situation just a small amount of heat will be able to form vapor layer above membrane, which would get ionized with glow discharge. What I therefore think is, that the plasma formation is actually an unwanted artifact, which would decrease the energy yield and life-time of membrane - but I can be indeed still wrong. IMO it would have a good meaning to try another types of porous plates too: sintered glass, zirconia or alumina.

Quote from: alpersddk
i finded a video which is seems very same to russian device.But there is no membrane

Hi, alpersddk - this is also an interesting find. But I'd consider the overunity claims there with caution. Just because the space between electrodes is very narrow and only low volume of fluid gets trapped there, it may bring a false impression, that the heat production is very high. I would recommend to measure the actual heat generated carefully with using of larger volume of fluid around electrodes. For example the measuring of amount of ice melted during experiment could be used for exact estimation of total amount of heat produced.

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Re: Free energy from watter - a review of research
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 12:24:38 AM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Free energy from watter - a review of research
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2017, 02:47:24 AM »
Hi Zephir,i finded a video which is seems very same to russian device.But there is no membrane.Also both of them generates abnormally heat and uses H.V.
Here is the link of the video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iiWGel3q50


Nothing special , you can get vapor generators that do this from the chemist. As the dude said in video AC can be used.  If the chap actually measured everything properly an scientifically there is no OU.

 

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