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Author Topic: Some Bifilar coil experiments  (Read 4966 times)

Offline evostars

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Some Bifilar coil experiments
« on: April 11, 2017, 10:31:06 PM »
I made 3 equal  bifilar pancake coils, on 3 cd trays, as can be seen in my youtube videos
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFz4KwTTMz5HlNimggtTsrDN9_jD2ZTeS


I placed them on top of each other, stacked like pancakes. equal distance. then I connected the center coil with a pulse driver. rim negative, center positive. this made the top side north, and bottom side south (compass measured)

The top and bottom coil where connected via the rim, and also connected to ground.

In this setup, when the top and the bottom coil are tuned (placing a capacitor parallel over the coil with the highest resonant frequency, so it dropped in frequency to match the other coil). there was a big resonant voltage rise at both of the centers, of both coils.

In trying to rectify to dc, I noticed the north side, produced much more voltage (pressure).
I then reversed the bottom coil, and placed a slight distance (4mm) between it and the center coil.
Something strange happened. The voltage rise on the south side became higher. and the resonant frequency dropped from 630KHZ to 430KHz.
After retuning the top coil(which still had the same resonant frequency) to match the frequency of the bottom coil, I noticed, the signals where out of phase.

In this new tuned setup, when I connected the the centers of the coils, to 2 uf4007 diodes, and 4 6,3uF capacitors (the picture shows parallel but i switched to series to protected the capacitors), The voltage was much higher.

11,68Vdc pulsed center coil, resulted in 950Vdc in the capacitors.

I wonder how this can be. the signals is 180 degrees out of phase (oscilloscope reading)
Why is the resonant frequency of the reversed south coil lower, and at the same time, much higher in voltage?

But the biggest smile on my face, was when I realized, the energy stored in the capacitors is related to the square of the voltage. So when the pulse voltage is made higher, the energy in the capacitors, is related to the square of the voltage rise. (much bigger).

I did a test with a 19Vdc pulse, and the capacitors read 1500Vdc

I wonder, what would happen, if I used a neon transformer, with a cap and a spark gap to produce the pulse voltage (high voltage).
The resonant rise would be insane high voltage. With enormous amounts of energy in the capacitors (series HV caps).





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Some Bifilar coil experiments
« on: April 11, 2017, 10:31:06 PM »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 11:08:00 PM »
In reading your description I believe that you tuned everything for the maximum resonant rise on the upper and lower coils, and when you did this the coils were unloaded.  Then you added the diode and capacitor array as a load and measured the very high DC voltage across the capacitors after a few seconds.

So the critical question is did you try to charge the capacitors when the transistor pulsing was not at the resonant frequency?  From what I can see in your description and drawings, you should get nearly as high DC voltages or perhaps the same high DC voltage when pulsing the transistor below or above the resonant frequency.

Have you tried this?   If the results are as I am expecting them do be, how do you explain this?


Offline evostars

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 11:18:33 PM »
In reading your description I believe that you tuned everything for the maximum resonant rise on the upper and lower coils, and when you did this the coils were unloaded.  Then you added the diode and capacitor array as a load and measured the very high DC voltage across the capacitors after a few seconds.

So the critical question is did you try to charge the capacitors when the transistor pulsing was not at the resonant frequency?  From what I can see in your description and drawings, you should get nearly as high DC voltages or perhaps the same high DC voltage when pulsing the transistor below or above the resonant frequency.

Have you tried this?   If the results are as I am expecting them do be, how do you explain this?
changing the setup changes the resonant frequency.
so i tuned with the diodes  (making 2 dc paths)  and the capacitors connected while pulsing.

only this high voltage rise at the resonant frequency (both coils same resonant rise,  but out of phase)

if its not out of phase,  and not resonant,  than it wont work (only low voltage in the caps)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 11:29:05 PM »
changing the setup changes the resonant frequency.
so i tuned with the diodes  (making 2 dc paths)  and the capacitors connected while pulsing.

only this high voltage rise at the resonant frequency (both coils same resonant rise,  but out of phase)

if its not out of phase,  and not resonant,  than it wont work (only low voltage in the caps)

Okay, then what I was thinking is probably not happening.  Just to double check, are you sure about this?  For example, if you get say 950 VDC at 430 kHz, are you sure you don't get say above 900 volts at say 50 kHz?

Anyway, any serious discussion of your setup and measurements requires a proper and complete schematic.  That's just the way it works in electronics.


Offline evostars

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 11:34:44 PM »
Okay, then what I was thinking is probably not happening.  Just to double check, are you sure about this?  For example, if you get say 950 VDC at 430 kHz, are you sure you don't get say above 900 volts at say 50 kHz?

Anyway, any serious discussion of your setup and measurements requires a proper and complete schematic.  That's just the way it works in electronics.
no 900 volts.  it is a narrow band it has to be precision tuned. i checked.

yes text isnt the best way to show it. but the pics explain enough(for now) .  maybe another video...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 11:34:44 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline evostars

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 11:38:28 PM »
when a bigger setup for hv need te be tuned,  i could tune it with low voltage. and then when its tuned,  apply the high voltage pulse.  the tuning is not dependent on the pulse voltage. only on frequency.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 11:58:17 PM »
Quote
I wonder, what would happen, if I used a neon transformer, with a cap and a spark gap to produce the pulse voltage (high voltage).
The resonant rise would be insane high voltage. With enormous amounts of energy in the capacitors (series HV caps).

Then you would have invented the Tesla Coil ! VRSWR (voltage rise by standing wave resonance) is indeed amazing.

But you don't need Tesla bifilar coils to see big voltage rises in resonant systems. I have many videos on this topic myself, but I won't distract this thread by posting them. Anyone who wants to see them can just search my YT channel for the right keywords.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 11:58:17 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline evostars

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2017, 12:10:48 AM »
Then you would have invented the Tesla Coil ! VRSWR (voltage rise by standing wave resonance) is indeed amazing.

But you don't need Tesla bifilar coils to see big voltage rises in resonant systems. I have many videos on this topic myself, but I won't distract this thread by posting them. Anyone who wants to see them can just search my YT channel for the right keywords.


indeed,  there is a good resemblance to a tesla coil.
but its slightly different.
2 secondary coils, reverse wound for the south,  and slightly distanced from the primary.
and than diodes and caps...

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2017, 11:57:09 AM »
Several times I have seen the claim made that a coil wound in the Tesla Bifilar manner has half the DC resistance of a monofilar coil with the same number of turns, same wire, etc. I don't see how this could possibly be true, since for the same type and dimensions of wire, the DC resistance should depend only on the length of the wire, no matter how it is wound.

 But I have seen several versions of this claim that the TBF winding has half the resistance of a monofilar winding of the same total length.

OK, so I just spent two hours of steady concentration making two comparison coils
of my own. I used #34 magnet wire, wound them on a wooden dowel, and was
very careful. Both coils have 380 total turns (the TBF having 190+190).

I measured them with my Fluke 83-III multimeter in high-precision (4 1/2 digit)  mode.
I used short probe leads to make the connections to the coils. The
probe leads alone shorted together measured 0.72 ohms. The straight solenoid
coil monofilar measured 11.16 ohms, or 10.44 ohms after subtracting the probe
lead resistance. The Tesla Bifilar coil measured 11.24 ohms, or 10.52 ohms after
subtracting the probe lead resistance. The 0.08 ohms difference is probably due
to the resistance of the top-bottom connection soldered together in the TBF coil.

Inductance measured with my Pros-Kit inductance meter: TBF 224 microHenry,
monofilar 221 microHenry. Not a significant difference, but again probably accounted
for by the slight extra length of wire needed to make the top-bottom connection.

So what is going on? Where does this claim of "half resistance" come from? Are people
making some mistake, like mis-connecting the coil so that they are actually only
measuring half the total length of wire? Does this "half resistance" effect not happen
until you get many more turns than 380? Are they mistaking DC resistance for AC impedance?
Are they just making stuff up? Did _I_ make some mistake somehow?


Offline evostars

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2017, 12:03:25 PM »
Several times I have seen the claim made that a coil wound in the Tesla Bifilar manner has half the DC resistance of a monofilar coil with the same number of turns, same wire, etc. I don't see how this could possibly be true, since for the same type and dimensions of wire, the DC resistance should depend only on the length of the wire, no matter how it is wound.

 But I have seen several versions of this claim that the TBF winding has half the resistance of a monofilar winding of the same total length.

OK, so I just spent two hours of steady concentration making two comparison coils
of my own. I used #34 magnet wire, wound them on a wooden dowel, and was
very careful. Both coils have 380 total turns (the TBF having 190+190).

I measured them with my Fluke 83-III multimeter in high-precision (4 1/2 digit)  mode.
I used short probe leads to make the connections to the coils. The
probe leads alone shorted together measured 0.72 ohms. The straight solenoid
coil monofilar measured 11.16 ohms, or 10.44 ohms after subtracting the probe
lead resistance. The Tesla Bifilar coil measured 11.24 ohms, or 10.52 ohms after
subtracting the probe lead resistance. The 0.08 ohms difference is probably due
to the resistance of the top-bottom connection soldered together in the TBF coil.

Inductance measured with my Pros-Kit inductance meter: TBF 224 microHenry,
monofilar 221 microHenry. Not a significant difference, but again probably accounted
for by the slight extra length of wire needed to make the top-bottom connection.

So what is going on? Where does this claim of "half resistance" come from? Are people
making some mistake, like mis-connecting the coil so that they are actually only
measuring half the total length of wire? Does this "half resistance" effect not happen
until you get many more turns than 380? Are they mistaking DC resistance for AC impedance?
Are they just making stuff up? Did _I_ make some mistake somehow?


please stick to the other thread keep this one clean.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2017, 12:03:25 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline evostars

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2017, 12:07:22 PM »
indeed,  there is a good resemblance to a tesla coil.
but its slightly different.
2 secondary coils, reverse wound for the south,  and slightly distanced from the primary.
and than diodes and caps...

It might not work with solenoid coils. im not shure,  but the fields generated with the pancake coils are able to interact because the fields occupy the same space. and with fields I mean the much more important DIELECTRIC field.



Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2017, 12:23:50 PM »
please stick to the other thread keep this one clean.

Oh, I thought this was "Some Bifilar coil experiments" thread. Now I see that it is actually "Some evostars Bifilar coil experiments" thread, others need not apply.

Well, excuuuuse me. You won't hear from me again in this thread.


Offline evostars

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2017, 12:57:37 PM »
Oh, I thought this was "Some Bifilar coil experiments" thread. Now I see that it is actually "Some evostars Bifilar coil experiments" thread, others need not apply.

Well, excuuuuse me. You won't hear from me again in this thread.
Thank you

Offline evostars

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2017, 12:59:32 PM »
 a drawing of my setup producing 950Vdc, I'm in the process of making a video.


Offline itsu

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Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 01:25:36 PM »

<blockquote>
Quote
Oh, I thought this was "Some Bifilar coil experiments" thread. Now I see that it is actually "Some evostars Bifilar coil experiments" thread, others need not apply.

Well, excuuuuse me. You won't hear from me again in this thread.
</blockquote>Thank you

Bad move Evo, you just have thrown out one of the most knowledgeable, helpfull and respectfull researcher on this forum.

Foutje, bedankt.....


Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Some Bifilar coil experiments
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 01:25:36 PM »

 

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