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Author Topic: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.  (Read 15709 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2017, 06:15:48 PM »
Zephir:

Go away, unless you are willing to BUILD, TEST AND REPORT.

And aren't you supposed to be ignoring me?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2017, 06:15:48 PM »

Offline Grumage

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2017, 06:17:21 PM »


If it is "just" a mini exciter radiant thing, I have a much simpler schematic that actually works, is repeatable,  and doesn't cause components to fail. It also looks much cooler.

OK, I need some clarity here.
 
1. Just what are the claims made for Nelson's circuit that we are examining here, other than that it causes components to fail and makes funny scopetraces?
2. Do we have the correct and complete schematic?
3. Which way around does _Nelson_ say the transformer needs to go, using the "24 volt" and "240 volt" winding terms, not "primary and secondary"?

Sorry if I seem a bit snippy this morning. I've been feeding trolls and while that is all good fun, it does get rather tiresome at times.

Dear TinselKoala.

Quote
So are you saying we do not actually have the complete schematic? Or that this device in the photo is not even the same one we have the schematic for?

That's correct. I did mention that in my opening post.

Quote
2. Do we have the correct and complete schematic?

No, we don't.

Quote
3. Which way around does _Nelson_ say the transformer needs to go, using the "24 volt" and "240 volt" winding terms, not "primary and secondary"?

From my last correspondence with Nelson I'm pretty sure he was suggesting the 240 V side was connected in series with the source.


Quote
Sorry if I seem a bit snippy this morning. I've been feeding trolls and while that is all good fun, it does get rather tiresome at times.

Trolls eh?  You should join me in " Tamriel " on the European Megaserver.... I prefer bashing them. They don't come back !!   :)

And finally..... A big thank you to Itsu.... My first post with individual quotes.....

Cheers Graham.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2017, 06:41:18 PM »
Er... OK, thanks.

So permit me to review the state of affairs as I see them:

1. We don't know what the claims are
2. We don't have the actual schematic
3. The connection of the 240 volt side of the transformer makes no sense if the output is supposed to be "HV radiant"
4. We have experimental reports that there is no "HV radiant" with the transformer connected that way but there is "HV radiant" if it is connected in the logical manner with the 24 volt side connected to collector and power rail.
5. The circuit causes components to fail partially and completely, and makes uninterpretable scope traces .... sometimes.

I am 100 percent willing to work on this, I have already spent a little bit of time and money on it, I have the transistor and I've wound the "toroid". But how am I supposed to proceed further?  What exactly is going to be the hypothesis under test here?

I am starting to agree with Zephir, and that really worries me.   :-\

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2017, 08:59:28 PM »
Er... OK, thanks.

So permit me to review the state of affairs as I see them:

1. We don't know what the claims are
2. We don't have the actual schematic
3. The connection of the 240 volt side of the transformer makes no sense if the output is supposed to be "HV radiant"
4. We have experimental reports that there is no "HV radiant" with the transformer connected that way but there is "HV radiant" if it is connected in the logical manner with the 24 volt side connected to collector and power rail.
5. The circuit causes components to fail partially and completely, and makes uninterpretable scope traces .... sometimes.

I am 100 percent willing to work on this, I have already spent a little bit of time and money on it, I have the transistor and I've wound the "toroid". But how am I supposed to proceed further?  What exactly is going to be the hypothesis under test here?

I am starting to agree with 'Old Ford Zephir' was it a car ? , and that really worries me.   :-\
Hi before you start 'don't forget' some of this extra energy involves somehow pulsing an earth wire and collecting energy from the earth wire.


Offline Dog-One

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2017, 09:13:38 PM »
1. We don't know what the claims are
2. We don't have the actual schematic
3. The connection of the 240 volt side of the transformer makes no sense if the output is supposed to be "HV radiant"
4. We have experimental reports that there is no "HV radiant" with the transformer connected that way but there is "HV radiant" if it is connected in the logical manner with the 24 volt side connected to collector and power rail.
5. The circuit causes components to fail partially and completely, and makes uninterpretable scope traces .... sometimes.

Point by point:

1.  Nelson claims this circuit is a learning tool that he has permission to document and share publically.  He also claims that if fully understood, it can be modified to function the way his "Amazing Oscillator" circuit behaves, i.e. self running.

2.  The schematic posted by Graham is correct.  It's the one I used.

3.  The line transformer I connected as step-up.  Voltages on the secondary will be higher than the voltages measured within the circuit around the transistor and toroid.

4.  Again, my assumption was step-up.

5.  It can and probably does damage components--have spare caps & transistors handy.  A current regulated power supply with gentle fine control of adjustments is a must.

I am 100 percent willing to work on this, I have already spent a little bit of time and money on it, I have the transistor and I've wound the "toroid". But how am I supposed to proceed further?  What exactly is going to be the hypothesis under test here?

First, can you get this gadget to go into "berserk mode"?   Second, can you explain why it behaves that way?

Final consensus, is there anything we have missed in classical electronic engineering that would leave you to believe Nelson's claim that this circuit can be modified in such a way as to be a self runner?  Working purely under the assumption Nelson is on-the-level, what are we missing if we determine there is nothing here of significance?

I am starting to agree with Zephir, and that really worries me.   :-\

He's a young guy, impatient and eager, with everything pretty much black or white.  I remember those days.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2017, 09:13:38 PM »
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Offline Dog-One

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2017, 09:27:11 PM »
I think this quote is relevant to the discussion here, though it was specific to his Radiant Box device.

Quote from: Nelson Rocha
No, I do not charge caps with the output, but I discharge caps to have output :) but that caps first need to be full  :)  is the reason to I say that systems have more that one stage and should not be understood like just one process, but a combination of several process.

Yes, I use nano pulses but made by own design; their action is to create a heavy unipolar pulse that make a very sharp pulse in a coil in a combination of series/parallel resonance. That effect is managed by a parametric oscillator that regulate how stronger is the pulses applied to a coil and the frequency used.  The pulses will increase in their intensity after some seconds system start working and charges start be collected in other stage of circuit, make pulses going stronger and stronger, oscillation after oscillation.

Hope my answers could help you about your doubts

Offline Grumage

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2017, 09:31:41 PM »
Succinct!!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2017, 09:31:41 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2017, 09:33:34 PM »

And finally..... A big thank you to Itsu.... My first post with individual quotes.....

Cheers Graham.

Way to go Graham, your answers to questions now leave no room for confusion.



TK,

i think you pretty well summed up the present state of this circuit.
My hope was that Nelson would chime in here, but appearently he does not.

Concerning the "hypothesis under test", what about: trying to determine once and for all what this "HV radiant" is, and if it exists at all.
How it manifests, how it smells and looks like etc.,  many OU researchers would be very pleased to finally know.

I was hooked when i saw that Grumage his setup kept on running for severall minutes, something that i could not replicate.

Itsu

Offline Dog-One

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2017, 10:19:03 PM »
My hope was that Nelson would chime in here, but appearently he does not.

Nelson has a big project and demonstration for his employers due in August.  I wouldn't expect him to have all that much spare time.

Concerning the "hypothesis under test", what about: trying to determine once and for all what this "HV radiant" is, and if it exists at all.
How it manifests, how it smells and looks like etc.,  many OU researchers would be very pleased to finally know.

Answers to the $64,000 question already?

One step at a time.

Change, Divergence and Curl.  Master those concepts and any limitations you currently have will be eliminated.   ;)

Offline itsu

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2017, 10:27:07 PM »

Quote
Change, Divergence and Curl.  Master those concepts and any limitations you currently have will be eliminated.   ;)



Wise words Dog-one,   you should change your handle to Grasshopper  ;)

Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2017, 10:27:07 PM »
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Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2017, 11:31:23 PM »
Hi to all ,
Since begin i could know that some doubts will appear; when Grumage ask me by authorization to publish the diagram ,myself advice in that moment Grumage that i could not support in any way that thread .

I simple don't have time to join and collaborate in the right way at moment.
Like i already told before this circuit is easy replicate , and is only to be object of study of some effects like electric power transfer without wires,  transmission by one wire , exponential oscillations by negative resistance, and covering other interesting aspects to people that go more deeply in the study of this circuit . Myself study and create variants of this type of circuit under 2 years :) yes .. :)
But i never say that is a OU circuit or any other claim like “free energy device”  but a nice cheap project to OU starter’s beginners enthusiast in this field . This circuit “compress” several effects already described .

About the circuit , i already hear from some persons that already start replicate the circuit  about unstable mode operation. Well …. I will talk about my own experience , with my own circuits .
I never have any transistor burned or any diode when circuit run properly tuned ;  but of course it could happen its like other circuits could fail , and my advice is use nice connections between components or small PCB.
About the transformer i confirm that transformer should be connected in step up mode . Example “24v to 240v” in that way no more confusion about how should be connected the transformer .

I just arrive in last days in my country Portugal to make some days of holiday  , and after i start read the thread ,  i have the opportunity  of reactivate one of those circuits that i store in my home Workshop , and he continue work like a charm :) . I make a video with some tune processing of circuit, and other points ,  is “free of charge” to people interested .
https://goo.gl/photos/YqGPUot2a2mATprz8

I Really appreciate see that exist more people that i could imagine interested in that circuit .
Best luck to all

Nelson Rocha

Nelson Rocha
 

Offline Grumage

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #56 on: April 15, 2017, 12:05:05 AM »
Dear Nelson.

I was just " turning in " when I spotted your post here. I would like to thank you for your input, I know you can't share more and that is appreciated.

I'll check out your video tomorrow.

Kind regards, Graham.


Offline Dog-One

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #57 on: April 15, 2017, 12:49:41 AM »
I second that Graham.  Thank you Nelson.

Also love them pancake coils.   :)


hugs

Offline Zephir

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #58 on: April 15, 2017, 12:56:51 AM »
What is this and how it's related to circuit diagram?


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Zephir

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #59 on: April 15, 2017, 02:17:39 AM »
Quote
That effect is managed by a parametric oscillator that regulate how stronger is the pulses applied to a coil and the frequency used.

The parametric oscillators are important part of ferrorezonance and many overunity circuits. The general idea is, the energy stored within coil or transformer is proportional the current and the momentary inductance of coil. At the case of ferrite coil, this inductance can be tuned in wide range with magnetic field, which may or may not come from that coil, i.e. which can be of external origin - so it can change independently like the adjustable parameter of circuit (from this its "parametric" denomination follows).

As you can see at the picture above, the toroid core is stuffed with smaller axial coil, the winding of which remains oriented perpendicularly to the winding of toroid transformer. Those who know the theory of coils probably know, that these two coils have very little chance to affect each other with voltage induced: the magnetic field of torus remains closed into itself and the magnetic field of smaller coil remains perpendicular to the toroidal one. Therefore, once the current inside the axial coil changes, then only magnetic saturation of toroidal coil can change - but no back EMF and current can be induced into it and no electric energy can get wasted within the circuit.

If the Nelson Rocha's device works as I think it works, then the toroid coil gets energized when the axial coil is switched on. Its current and magnetic field saturates the ferrite within torus in such a way, its inductance remains low. Therefore low energy is actually required for raising current through toroidal coil during this period. Once the current through coil reaches its maximum, then the current inside axial coil gets switched off and the magnetic permeability of ferrite spontaneously increases, because the thermal fluctuations within material have no other option, than to reorient its magnetic domains randomly. This is spontaneous entropic process and it usually wastes energy, but in this sneaky arrangement it raises the energy of coil instead. How?

We shouldn't forget, that the toroid coil is already passed with high current from previous half of cycle, therefore the increasing permeability increases the inductance of coil and energy of magnetic flux under current given and this energy is provided with quantum fluctuations of vacuum "for free". The transformer gets charged into account of thermal fluctuations: the power returned by current back into circuit during its discharge will be higher than the power used for its charging, because its inductance modulated with axial coil will be also lower during charging of transformer than during its discharging.

Note that the current passing through small axial coil must be relatively high for to achieve saturation of both cores. There undoubtedly exist better but more complex arrangements of ferrite cores, which close magnetic circuits of both coils more consequentially. But because the axial coil is small and wound with short thick wire, its energy loses also remain low. Anyway this explains, why the circuit goes into "berserk mode" just above certain level of input power, because the saturation curve of ferrites is not linear. This saturation can be helped with additional magnet embedded into a magnetic circuit - which is the trick, which for example 2SGen of J.L. Naudin or MEG of Thomas Bearden are using.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #59 on: April 15, 2017, 02:17:39 AM »

 

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