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Author Topic: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.  (Read 11740 times)

Offline Grumage

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N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« on: April 11, 2017, 12:43:24 PM »
Dear All.

Welcome to a new thread dedicated to Nelson Rocha and his Mini Radiant Exciter circuit. Builders most welcome.

I used the Acronym N.R.M.R.E. as it's quite a mouthful and I'm rubbish at typing !!  :)

For deeper research might I suggest a visit to Nelson's You Tube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/batraquioo0


Here's a couple of Nelson's videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfpG9wFw4iI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjK6OlYO9Aw

It's already very clear that the circuits in the videos differ quite strongly from the posted schematic below.... This is where you guys n gals come in!!    ;)

Investigation!!

I built a version some time ago. Video here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6lmd0HKxOw

I found this when my channel suggestions came up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iER4K1O7iMc

Nelson's work has inspired a few!  Thank you Nelson Rocha.

Good luck everyone, Graham.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« on: April 11, 2017, 12:43:24 PM »

Offline dieter

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 01:33:53 PM »
Thanks Grum, I'll look into it later on.
kr


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 02:26:47 PM »
Do we have part numbers or at least V-A ratings for the bridge rectifiers?

Also, is the wire going through the center of the toroid, or is that overlap just drawn for convenience?


And this schematic of the internals of the TIP122 Darlington transistor belongs here.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 02:45:12 PM »
Somewhere in my many JT videos I ask, and answer, the question "what happens after the light goes out". That is, when the supply voltage is no longer high enough for the JT to light up the LED(s).  The particular JT I used continued to produce an oscillation just like what you show at the end of your video-- a low voltage sinus oscillation that went on for a long time apparently without losing amplitude until it finally stopped. Without the LED being on to drain the power I guess it was in a "high Q" oscillating mode. Which of course doesn't actually explain anything, just gives it a name (which may not be correct.)

I think it was this JT but I can't find the right video showing the "dark oscs" at the moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu3neYByYp0

I've a batch of TIP122 transistors on order, should be here in a couple of days.


Offline Grumage

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 02:46:26 PM »
Do we have part numbers or at least V-A ratings for the bridge rectifiers?

Also, is the wire going through the center of the toroid, or is that overlap just drawn for convenience?


And this schematic of the internals of the TIP122 Darlington transistor belongs here.

Dear TinselKoala.

Many thanks for dropping by.

With the schematic, sadly what you see is what you get.

Your point about the wire running through the toroid is something that I had missed, perhaps we should allow for it's inclusion/removal during construction?

Cheers Graham. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 02:46:26 PM »
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Offline icarus

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 03:20:44 PM »
I am the author of the video mentioned by Grumage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iER4K1O7iMc

The circuit also works with a different transistor from TIP122, eg. TIP41C or other similar NPN.
I continued to experiment with this circuit: the following videos show the state of things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgDTvqFr6bY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye1-Z7lfrmM

Now I'd like to share strategies and impressions to go further with others experimenters.
Maybe a bone every now from Nelson would not be a bad thing.... 

Who knows, sooner or later, maybe
But in any case thanks to Nelson for this circuit and for all his videos

Ciao

Icarus aka Mauro aka Ciucianebbia


Offline itsu

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 04:53:16 PM »

I also did a replication last year together with Grumage.

I however never got this prolonged oscillation after disconnecting the base that Graham had with his setup.
Not even when using a wire through the toroid connected to copper tape around the HV radiant transformer (see 3th video).

My 3 video's of this replication are here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoG8wTYa7eU&t=7s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceAHCQpnqZU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeIrnndrdnw

My redraw of the circuit can be seen below.

Regards Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 04:53:16 PM »
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Offline Grumage

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2017, 05:57:37 PM »
Thanks Icarus and itsu.

A great start to the topic.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2017, 11:02:33 PM »
Thanks for that redraw Itsu, you saved me the trouble. Now the resemblance to some Joule Thief circuits is easier to see.

A question about the "HV Radiant" transformer though... it appears you have labelled it as a step-down transformer, with the lower voltage winding on the HV output side. Is this correct? I can't quite wrap my mind around that.

On the original schematic it looks to me like the transformer is wired as step-UP , which makes more sense to me.

Also, does the "HV Radiant" share a common ground with the Negative rail of the power supply? Or is the Negative rail "floating" and the HV Radiant grounded to Earth?

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2017, 11:17:20 PM »
The 3n247 seems like an odd choice for a bridge rectifier that is supposed to be used in an "HV radiant" output circuit. Comments?

The closest fast diodes to the MUR440 that I have on hand are UF3003. Instead of 400V, 4 A these are rated 300V, 3A. If my local supplier doesn't have the MUR440 in stock for a reasonable price (1.00 USD or less, checking tomorrow) I'll have to use the UF3003s when I get around to constructing the circuit. Or I may go "overkill" and use MUR1560 which I know he does stock for about a dollar each.  Comments?

And I intend to use a small CRT yoke ferrite for the "toroid". Comments?


I'm attaching some data sheets below.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2017, 11:17:20 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2017, 11:26:56 PM »

TK,

there was confusion about the direction of that transformer from the start, i expected too that it would be connected to the collector via the secondary (24V) to get a HV (radiant) signal from the primary (240V), but Graham just asked Nelson the other day in this thread:


http://overunity.com/17186/the-bifilar-pancake-coil-at-its-resonant-frequency/msg503543/#msg503543

Quote
Hi Graham,
Is the primary side of transformer that is connected ; the transformer i used is 240v x 9v normally  used in a commercial electronic inboard .

wish you the best

Nelson Rocha

So primary (240V) connected to the collector.

Concerning the used 3N247 FWBR, that was what i had laying around, not sure what Nelson used.


Itsu



Offline TinselKoala

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2017, 12:12:47 AM »
Thanks for the clarification. Now I have a couple more questions (of course!)

Does that HV radiant 3n247 still work normally when pulled out of Nelson's circuit and tested within its limits as indicated on the data sheet?

And how does the HV radiant show itself? Corona, sparks, lighting up neons or CFLs, making people feel ill, or just how?

That transformer primary-secondary thing still puzzles me. I'm wondering how the wire insulation withstands the HV stress.

Offline Dog-One

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2017, 01:01:30 AM »
When you get something slapped together Tinsel, see if you can replicate then explain this...

You apply a few volts and you will see a typical oscillator, nothing special, drawing a few milliamps as would be expected.

If you slowly increase PSU voltage, you will get to a point (between 7v & 9v) where the circuit behaves much different.  Milliamp draw will go to practically zero; the waveform will go berserk quite literally, voltages on the scope will exceed 10x probe settings or nearly so.


I built this goofy thing about a year ago and still don't comprehend what it is doing or how.  It certainly didn't appear to me to be normal.  Maybe it is.  Hopefully you can get similar results and clue us in.

Whatever Nelson was on to, he chased something most of us wouldn't think to follow.



One other little note:
  Pay particular attention to how the circuit operates when it first goes into "berserk mode", because after just tens of seconds, you will never see this again quite the same.  I think the voltages actually damage the electrolytic capacitors.  However, you cannot substitute these electrolytic capacitors with something of higher voltage rating.  The way they are designed as rolled flat plates is essential to the operation of this circuit, as though their real purpose is some sort of coil instead of capacitor.  Probably why Nelson has been doing extensive research with pancake coils--he knows what he is looking for now.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 02:40:44 AM »
Hmm... OK, Dog, I'm looking forward to seeing this bad boy on my own bench. My TIP122 Darlingtons are supposed to arrive Thursday, hope they
are genuine and not some recycled rebadged Chinese fakes.

What you've described reminded me of a video I made some time ago with a very simple circuit from TinMan, using a Tesla Bifilar pancake coil.
I posted a link to it when I first made it and I'm kind of reluctant to post it again, what with the flame wars and all, and I don't want to
take this thread off-track.

In your build did you have the transformer and the FWBs installed when you saw the weirdness, or just what you have on the breadboard?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: N.R.M.R.E. An investigation.
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 02:40:44 AM »

 

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