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Author Topic: Possible operating principles of device (edited title)  (Read 12396 times)

Offline Grumpy

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Possible operating principles of device (edited title)
« on: November 20, 2006, 03:51:36 PM »
To EMDevices, Dean, MrMag, Stefan, Sparkman, and all of the others that stayed on this site:

[Before I start - I don't think Steven knows everything there is about this sort of device.  (If he does - he has good reason to be quiet or wind up like another SM - right Steven?)]

OK here it goes: (By the way - a poster named "JackFrost" nailed it when he mentioned "scorch field" - he might have mentioned the Lorentz Force too - right again - koodos Jack)

The device does not rely on induction or coupling between the coils in any way.  It has nothing to do with these aspects and thinking along those terms will get you nothing but a headache and frustration.

The arrangement of coils:

4 to produce the vortex (rotating magnetic field)
1 to produce the orthogonal static magnetic field to hold the collected electrons
1 to tap or collect from the field
Like this - or similar - see attached:

Known effects associated with this type of device:
Time dilation (acceleration) - I mentioned before that manipulation of time garners unwanted attention - consider yourself warned
high voltage (can be very high)
heating of matter within field - including collector coil
gravitational and inertial changes
FTL communications and FTL travel
(other things I'm going to mention)


The rotating magnetic field (just like an AC motor) creates a magnetic vortex that pulls in electrons and rotates them at high speed.  The static magnetic field is orthogal so the electrons are trapped because they can not escape the orthogonal field - they circulate.  As the electrons reach light speed - they can go no faster - and their energy must increase - there is your OU.  The field can not relax do to the static orthogonal field so it keeps increasing in energy - similar to a resonance effect - right Steven?  Takes very little energy to generate the field. High frequency applied to rotating field coils keeps input requirements low.  Effects can be achieved with non-rotating fields but energy levels are much lower -  this is the version that JackFrost mentioned in the original thread - field is modulated to achieve other effects.  Charges outside field will rotate in opposite directions.  Density of the field is determined by the rotating frequency (excitation) and the static B field - hence magnets to start and removing them weakens field significantly.  Static field can be generated with a DC fed coil - this allows it to be adjusted to tune location of the field to coincide with the collector coil. 

Before you run off to your workbench and start winding coils - do NOT think that you will put a device like this on the market, or get patents on it, or anything of the sort.  If you know nothing of high-energy equipment - leave it alone.

Short on time - maybe more later.  Keep it small, quiet, and private.

(edit) fixed typo in title
(edit) changed title of thread
« Last Edit: November 22, 2006, 06:45:57 PM by Grumpy »

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Offline EMdevices

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2006, 05:33:36 PM »
 ::)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 05:10:48 AM by EMdevices »

Offline MrMag

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2006, 06:09:23 PM »
Well Grumpy, I don't know. Thank you very much for your view on this. It is the first time that I've seen any type of explanation that actually makes sense to me. I am going to be away the rest of the week but when I get back, I might tinker around with your idea, on a small scale for sure.

I am not sure where EMDevices is coming from. I do not recall you mentioning Ionization? I think his head is spinning from all that NMR ;D

Please keep us posted.


Tim

Offline Grumpy

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2006, 06:40:58 PM »
EMDevices

I never used to word "ionization" - but will work in a vacuum too.  At low energies molecular (electron-air) collision is not so bad.

Quote
Anybody who knows about the "right hand rule" in EM and can visualize vectors,  will see that this statement is wrong. The ions will spiral differently then is imaged here, this stamenent lacks this understanding of EM forces and directions.


This was an attempt at a generalization - they rotate non-the-less.

Electrodynamics 101:
If a charge moves into a magnetic field with direction perpendicular to the field, it will follow a circular path. The magnetic force, being perpendicular to the velocity, provides the centripetal force.  Maybe they got it wrong...

The magnets enhance the static orthogonal field - restricting more electrons to it's confines.

The digital meter is not very fast is it - you disconnect it and the digits wind down slowly.  Perhaps an anolog meter would have been better.

Stator field needs time to collapse, especially with a ferro core.

Too much diluted Maxwell and not enough Tesla - must be a damned EE... (no offense)

You must have a rotating magnetic field and a static magnetic field - period - SM's offered a very accurate analogy.

EMDevices - Do you have a better explanation?

MrMag - rotation frequencies - 10khz to see effects - 1mhz to get interesting - 30mhz and you are on your own...fire extenguisher handy

Offline EMdevices

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2006, 07:17:57 PM »
 ::)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 05:11:20 AM by EMdevices »

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2006, 07:17:57 PM »
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Offline Grumpy

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2006, 09:41:57 PM »
Alright, lets kick the crap out of this subject once and for all:

I think SM used cork-like material as a form that was not conductive and would not get too hot do to the excited field.

The videos vary from the first to the last - this is peculiar.  SM states how simple it is at first, but the coils are hidden later on.

I doubt it is picking up enough stray EM waves, but there are laws against placing inductive devices under powerlines. 

NMR - hmmm -

In either method - would take a little time for field to settle down.

The rotating magnetic field via coils was specifically pointed out.

SM's first device clearly shows the four coils at 90 degrees.  The coils do not enclose the circle so the field will come out the ends - just like a toroidal motor like those used in rotary actuators.

Pulsars do it to:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/312/5773/539.pdf
"They calculated the strength of the electric field generated by the rotating magnetic field and found that on certain areas of the neutron star surface, this field creates a force on particles that is far stronger than the gravitational force that holds them down. Therefore, electrons
can escape from these parts of the star surface and are accelerated by the electric field along the magnetic field lines, achieving a highly
relativistic speed after only a few centimeters of travel. From other parts of the neutron star surface, positively charged particles (nuclei)
can be drawn out, such that the magnetosphere of the neutron star is filled with an outflowing ionized plasma. As shown in the figure,
this plasma can flow out into space only along open magnetic field lines, which originate in the neutron star?s polar caps around its magnetic poles, and cross the socalled light-cylinder, where the field lines would rotate with the velocity of light.."

...and if a static orthogonal magnetic field blocks their departure?


Offline sparkman

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2006, 10:01:03 PM »
Hey I like the way you guys fight.....I might learn something. Is the device on keelynet titled "gravity3.zip" or "gravity3. html" a scorch field device? Could you guide me to such a device. Thanks

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2006, 10:01:03 PM »
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Offline dean_mcgowan

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2006, 10:44:36 PM »
Steven,

Oops I mean Grumpy,

Can you make one of these work .. you sure sound like you have a handle on it.

Very confident approach there champ.

Now lets see your knock out punch, the video demo and full spec ... :D

Cheers,

Dean


Offline Grumpy

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2006, 11:05:05 PM »
sparkman,

that is the only reference I was able to find on the "scorch field" that JackFrost mentioned.  Further poking around turned up references to the in accounts of the Philadelphia Experiment (dare I say, it is a "fringe" term).  He also mentioned the phi and A fields which in electrodymics are the two basic fields that create E and B (phi was shown to create the A field).

anyway, it is toroidal with two orthogonal coils and speaks of "interesting fields".

The paper says to apply 50vdc to each coil and then 25kvdc across both

molten dielectric - now we're talkin'

Date is 1997 - bbs days - as I recall there were some bombshells going off in the world of physics back in 1996.  I have not been able to find any other reference to this - other than the PX stuff that is all over the place.  Accounts of PX do mention orthogonal coils / fields.  Hutchison uses static and AC fields for his work - freaky stuff indeed.

Dean,

People who attempt to bring this to the masses tend to have accidents...right SM? 

EMDevices: We ain't fightin' - we're communicating!

Offline EMdevices

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2006, 11:13:22 PM »
 ::)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 05:12:35 AM by EMdevices »

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2006, 11:13:22 PM »
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Offline Grumpy

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2006, 01:23:49 AM »
I'll put something together...

Offline Grumpy

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2006, 02:37:24 PM »
If the conspiracy stuff is ligit, then perhaps SM has reason to "muddy the waters".


I found the original connection to Lorentz forces in the device here:

http://www.keelynet.com/interact/archive/00000321.htm

The device is composed of circular coils of wire, on one planar frame,
with one coil inside the other, like two concentric rings, and with the
addition one or more permanent magnets that are inserted into the center
(or so?) of the inner coil ring.


It is supposedly tuned to the 7.23 Hz Earth's EM field.


It is shown in 3 sizes: about 10 inches in diameter, larger, and the
largest one was about 18-24 inches in diameter. They are placed flat
(parallel to the ground) in the air (on a glass table).


When the permanent magnet(s) is/are inserted, the secondary coil
registers an output of about 80-100 Volts, on a regular VTVM as seen on
the tape. The tape calls this Voltage DC, and also says that it is
around 5,000 Hz, which of course does not make sense.


The interesting thing is that when the output is connected to a regular
lamp light bulb, it lights up just fine - so the promoters say see! It
lights a 100 Watt bulb, so the Amperage must be 1 Amp...--> wrong...


And - when the device is operating, they say it has a resistance to any
lateral or rotational motion, like a gyroscope has that same resistance
to a rotational (only) motion
--------------
Is this the Omnidyne group in the next email to INE?

He wanted US$25 million up front for the secret. We are aware of the
concept and have been designing our own version [snip]. He is VERY
paranoid about publicity; [snip].


The outer toroidal coil overheats  and has no magic factors inside it
other than a length of the coil which is cut until resonance is
established. In the core of this outer toroidal coil is the instrument
package. A magnet is used and a resonance is established using the
mechanical (Lorentz) forces developed in the coil. The system pulses
with a DC component.


Tuning is a function of the coil mass and cross-sectional aspect ratio.
It appears an elliptical cross-section is required in the coil. The
converter package in the center of the toridal coil appears to be a
circuit to convert the pulsed DC component to AC.


This whole device is a low-voltage, low frequency, high-current form of
the high-voltage, high frequency, low current Moray device. Each system
has its good and bad points....
----------------


EDIT:
Henry Moray - http://home.netcom.com/~sbyers11/RFenergy_Iono.html#Moray_101.4
Bounced off ionosphere or collected from that direction - this was mentioned in the main thread, but ignored.

Italian site discussing this subject stated that the instruments in the center look like a "diode valve bridge":
near the bottom - excuse Google translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://energierinnovabili.forumcommunity.net/%3Ft%3D4523026&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsteven%2Bmark%2Blorentz%2Bforce%2Boverheats%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2005-03,GGLD:en

« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 03:14:54 PM by Grumpy »

Offline raburgeson

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2006, 01:49:10 PM »
Well I took it to mean something ever so slightly different. I was trying to wire the TPU so 1 field rotated 1 direction while the other field rotated the other direction. Steven said imagine what the fields do when they collide, He didn't say one had to be stationary. In view of the TPU having three sets of collectors, I decided to take time to theorise.
Instead of jumping in trying to build the device straight up, I made a  2 layer 4 section toroid wrapped on a plastic form and drove those with a distributor I made using two slip rings with 1 side on each coated with epoxy (265 degrees) to allow a slight overlap creating a true rotating field. I posted a question directly to Steven and Lindsay because results from test equipement better than ours was to be made availible. I asked if my test that showed it was not when the fields first collide, but when the centers of the fields line up that shit really happens. (Excuse the speach). I never got a reply, so, going ahead on the data gotten from my poor equipement and studying the posts I tried putting the top and bottom collector sections in parallel. rotating them and counter-rotating the center collector that was wired in series with the other pair. This did not give me a static output coil. I gave me a nice looking output scope shot who's voltage collapsed with even a 2 watt load. Now you have given me a few different ideas to try and I may just be able to collect power off this now, so thanks alot. (I was getting the kicks I think, I just wasn't collecting any usable VA) 

Offline Grumpy

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Re: Saving Steven Mark the trouble - operating principles of device
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2006, 02:47:32 PM »
Counter-rotating fields - yes.   Particles of opposite charge will rotate opposite.  Look at the universe - everywhere is two magnetic fields.

Earth - two fields (proven several times, but mainstream still not convinced - see Keshe and Walter Russell)
Pulsar - two fields
Magnets - always two poles - always diverging - or at least we are told...theorized that beyond speed of light this may not hold true.

The theory presented at the beginning of this thread is not my own, but that of the late Dr. Stefan Marinov. (also spelled Stephen).  He developed the device that I mentioned and dies just before giving a lecture.  during his life he proved many physical laws to be incomplete of completely inaccurate.  All info on this device (called MAGVID) is on internet and is public domain.  Others have duplicated the device but none will speak about it.  The implications of this device and his theories are a real eye opener.

Stationary field of SM device is from magnets and ambient earth field.

Three collectors, yes, MAGVID model by Vencislav Bujic has three collectors oppposite side of vortex than static field coil. See field map at bottom of page, other image is same as what I explained: http://www.usajohnsons.com/cool_energy_stuff/experiments/magvid.htm

TAO posted the following quote from SM - recovered from Google cache:

About the collector:
It is three separate coils of multi strand copper wire laid one on top of the other, not interleaved. Three is important. You can do many things with three coils. You can run them in parallel, you can run two in series and one in parallel, or etc.
You can run a separate frequency into each coil for better control on large power units if need be.
The control wiring is vertically wound in several segments around each of the horizontal collector coils. Other control wires are wound around all of the horizontal collector coils together.
Through the different control wire and coil wire arrangements you can keep complete control of the unit most of the time. However, you must have an emergency KILL switch. A way of cutting off all the control frequencies simultaneity. This kill switch must be, manual and also connected through a heat sensor buried within the collector coil. it should automatically stop the function of the unit before it self destructs on it's own. This is important for obvious reasons. Also the kill switch should also be connected to cut off whenever it measures over voltage. If that should ever happen, you would never have enough time to hit the kill switch before the inevitable explosion occurred.
You know, it is very similar to the idea of a long garden hose. Picture a hose with water in it. If you pick up one end and move along the length of the hose you will move the water constantly along in the direction you are moving. You could also squeeze the hose in the direction to move the water along as well. And you could do both to control the movement of the water more precisely. You can think of the movement of water as the movement of electrons through the collector coils.
I hope the things I share with you give you ideas about how my unit works. As you know, I am a great believer in understanding, not copying.
Sincerely,
SM.


Marinov stated that his model of the device worked up to 30MHZ and that at over 10mhz - very strange thing happend - this is same upper frequency as the "scorch field" generator mentioned before - again we see orthogonal fields.

Have not tried pancake coils - wound bifilar - Tesla style - but know that field of pancake is shaped like a cone - very strong in center.

Is Steven's device is in any way similar to Marinov device - it is best he stay hidden or go very public.  Marinov also had the theory and the math to back it all up - very dangerous - he dies under mysterious cuircumstances - supposed suicide - fell 4 stories backwards - no blood - left a final testament before his death.

I believe Steven did not have the complete theory that Marinov had.  I think he found the "kicks" (very sudden change in magnetic field) to impart energy burst.  His circuit may have drifted at higher frequency as well.

Also, Ampere proved that perpendicular wires do experience a force between themselves - this is 1/2 that of parallel wires.

JDO3000 mentioned on physics forum that SM got kicks with coils wrapped around lamp wire.  Field at end of coil will turn to go other direction because field must diverge - this goes for both B field and A field.  A field in center of torioid must also diverge (close in a loop).
Steven should have noticed the folowing effects within the field - less pronounced at lower frequency:

Sorry for long post - much to discuss.

Offline Grumpy

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Re: Possible operating principles of device (edited title)
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2006, 07:55:03 PM »
two counter-rotating vortex - opposed = cavitation

The "implosion" of Victor Schauberger is "cavitation".

Extremely rapid collapse of the "medium" as result of cavitation.

Cavitation known to produce intense heat.

hyperkinetic zone and particle shear (using water as anology)

Marinov was able to achieve "light cylinder" like that of a pulsar.

If magnetic field, A-field or B-field, is not able to diverge (close) then it will be "non-conservative" - even if only for an instant.

(According to Maxwell A and B fields MUST diverge)

(No wonder Stefan Marinov is no longer with us.)

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Re: Possible operating principles of device (edited title)
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2006, 07:55:03 PM »

 

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