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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: magnetman12003 on March 29, 2017, 01:46:43 AM

Title: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 29, 2017, 01:46:43 AM
What do you think of my setup?  A single 3.7 volt battery is inside the USB phone charger.  5 volts output from this charger go into my setup and then it delivers output power enough to light up 8 (non dimmable) 12 volt 7 watt bulbs.
That's 56 watts !  First- this is not over unity. Maybe free energy??  Call it a power assist.  Leave comments on the You Tube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHoUj9ZQae8
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Zephir on March 29, 2017, 02:20:56 AM
Try to self-loop the circuit and you'll see...
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: TinselKoala on March 29, 2017, 04:52:00 AM
1. Power is not energy.
2. A nameplate or box value does not mean that the bulb or other device always draws that amount of power.
3. "Undimmable" does not mean that the bulbs cannot shine at reduced brightness.
4. Visual impressions of brightness are nearly worthless as "measurements".
5. Power is not energy, and it is entirely possible for a battery like yours to deliver hundreds of watts or even more. Try shorting the terminals with a piece of wire and see what happens.

Carry on, keep experimenting, study and learn.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 29, 2017, 08:04:44 PM
Try to self-loop the circuit and you'll see...

My circuit is self looped  The negative input is connected DIRECTLY to the negative output.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 29, 2017, 08:49:40 PM
1. Power is not energy.
2. A nameplate or box value does not mean that the bulb or other device always draws that amount of power.
3. "Undimmable" does not mean that the bulbs cannot shine at reduced brightness.
4. Visual impressions of brightness are nearly worthless as "measurements".
5. Power is not energy, and it is entirely possible for a battery like yours to deliver hundreds of watts or even more. Try shorting the terminals with a piece of wire and see what happens.

Carry on, keep experimenting, study and learn.
  With my bulbs lit I am showing 30 milli volts feeding all eight  7 watt bulbs.  So I take it that the setup is producing enormous amperage to keep the bulbs burning??
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 29, 2017, 09:27:36 PM
1. Power is not energy.
2. A nameplate or box value does not mean that the bulb or other device always draws that amount of power.
3. "Undimmable" does not mean that the bulbs cannot shine at reduced brightness.
4. Visual impressions of brightness are nearly worthless as "measurements".
5. Power is not energy, and it is entirely possible for a battery like yours to deliver hundreds of watts or even more. Try shorting the terminals with a piece of wire and see what happens.

Carry on, keep experimenting, study and learn.
  I did short the wires while experimenting and after a very loud stinking crack I found I had
blown up my new wattmeter..  The circuit however still is working.  LOTS OF CURRENT!
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on March 30, 2017, 12:44:31 AM
My circuit is self looped  The negative input is connected DIRECTLY to the negative output.

Hi Thomas,

Just because of the negative input is connected to the negative output, your circuit is not self looped. This is not enough condition for self looping.
I assume your setup creates around 12V DC output that feeds directly the 8 LED lamps, right?

What is needed for self looping in your case is to use an efficient DC-DC step down converter, see what I mean:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222366957908 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/222366957908)    there are many types, this is cheap and free shipping and yet seems suitable.

Such converter receives any DC input between 4.5V and 24V and has a potmeter-adjustable output voltage range between 0.18V and 17V and output current max 3A. The negative input is internally connected to the negative output as is the case for any non-isolated type converters.

So you could feed your 12 V output from your setup to the input of such DC-DC converter and the output of this converter would be connected to the 5V input of your setup via a series diode placed in the positive output of the step down converter.
And when you have connected like this, you could completely remove the 5 V phone charger that presently includes the 3.7V battery and see whether your setup continues feeding the lamps or bogs down.
This would be a correct and true self looping and you could experience first hand whether your setup is really able to maintain operation and feed the lamps under a looped back condition.

Before doing the self loop, you may wish to remove say 7 LED lamps out of the 8, this low-load condition would make it easier for your setup to "focus on" feeding the load coming from the step down converter the moment you close the loop.

I made a block diagram for you to show a possible looped wiring for the whole setup. Red lines are the positive rails and blacks are the common negative ones.  Diode D is needed to separate the 5V output of the phone charger from the 5V output of the step down converter to avoid mutual loading of the 5V outputs. When you have done the looping and removed the phone charger and the setup continues feeding the lamps, the D diode is not needed any more, it is a temporary component while the 5V output of the phone charger is present.
You need to adjust the output voltage of the step down converter in advance to roughly 5.6V when you feed its input from a 12V wall plug adapter. Diode should be able to handle 3 Amper at least, here is a suggestion:  http://www.futurlec.com/Diodes/1N5401pr.shtml (http://www.futurlec.com/Diodes/1N5401pr.shtml) 

If you have questions, please ask.  If you do the looping, please report back what you experienced.

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on March 30, 2017, 01:48:05 AM
Hi all, hi magnetman, will you share the circuit for this please.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 31, 2017, 12:01:11 AM
I have the same setup being powered by a 12 volt wall wart.  To keep voltage constant.
Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o30z1iHDZa8

Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on March 31, 2017, 05:04:42 AM
Hi magnetman, thanks for sharing, though will you share the circuit drawing and details.
I mean, if you will share them freely to a corporation, etc. then why not share them here, so people can benefit from your device.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on March 31, 2017, 06:14:17 AM
Hi magnetman, thanks for sharing, though will you share the circuit drawing and details.
I mean, if you will share them freely to a corporation, etc. then why not share them here, so people can benefit from your device.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 01, 2017, 06:06:52 AM
Hi magnetman, thank you for sharing.
The only part i have a question about, is the SCR.
I't looks like the only way the primary coils flyback can couple with the led bulbs, is through the SCR, triggered by the neon.
Just wondering what frequency the SCR is dumping the capacitor across the led bulb loads.
I assume it is fairly often to help boost the light output significantly more than typical.
This looks likes a boost converter, main difference being the capacitor dump function.
I have these 2.8 watt ikea gutted led bulbs, though i don't think they are 12 volt, because 8 volts dc brings them to their full rated input wattage, so i would need to get some 12 volt led bulbs also to test this design.
Are you using this same type of capacitor dump circuit with your 3.7 volt input version, because that would be easier for me to replicate based on parts i have right now.
Thanks for any help.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: dieter on April 02, 2017, 02:52:04 AM
thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 02, 2017, 06:18:30 AM
Hi magnetman, thank you for sharing.
The only part i have a question about, is the SCR.
I't looks like the only way the primary coils flyback can couple with the led bulbs, is through the SCR, triggered by the neon.
Just wondering what frequency the SCR is dumping the capacitor across the led bulb loads.
I assume it is fairly often to help boost the light output significantly more than typical.
This looks likes a boost converter, main difference being the capacitor dump function.
I have these 2.8 watt ikea gutted led bulbs, though i don't think they are 12 volt, because 8 volts dc brings them to their full rated input wattage, so i would need to get some 12 volt led bulbs also to test this design.
Are you using this same type of capacitor dump circuit with your 3.7 volt input version, because that would be easier for me to replicate based on parts i have right now.
Thanks for any help.
peace love light
   I used the very  same circuit for the 3.7  volt input version and the 12 volt input version.
My new DC watt meter only meters voltage from 6 volts to 100 volts. That's why you don't see it when I was experimenting with the 3.7 to 5 volt  setup.  The watt meter is present and correctly connected when I was experimenting with the 12 volt  wall wart power. That's to be sure voltage did not decay like battery voltage would do.   You can use this circuit with 24 volts also but be sure your 12 volt bulbs are series (2) connected together.  You will spend hours having fun with this HYBRID circuit   I never had it fail on me yet  Did get shocked when I was careless.  Once again be careful !      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o30z1iHDZa8
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: dieter on April 02, 2017, 05:44:59 PM
Thanks for the video. So the twisted coil is plastic coated wire. Fotos and Vids of the actual device help a lot.


Now, where to get such a SCR, are they expensive?


kr
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 02, 2017, 07:35:33 PM
Hi dieter, i looked up his model scr and it's around $10 on internet.
I found one with a little less specifications, NTE5554 for $6.
Peak Reverse Blocking Voltage (Note 1), VRRM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .400V
 Forward Current (TC= +80°C), IT(RMS). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .25A
 (All Conduction Angles), IT(AV). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16A
 Peak Non-Repetitive Surge Current (8.3ms), ITSM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .300A
 (1/2 Cycle, Sine Wave, 1.5ms). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .350A
 Forward Peak Gate Power, PGM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20W
 Forward Average Gate Power, PG(AV). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.5W
 Forward Peak Gate Current, IGM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2A
 Operating Junction Temperature Range, TJ. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +125°C
 Storage Temperature Range, Tstg. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +150°C
 Thermal Resistance, Junction-to-Case, RthJC. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1.5°C/W

I wonder if this SCR will work good, i will be using a different blocking oscillator for the main circuit though, probably with a ferrite flyback core from a TV.
Because as i see it, it is the capacitor dumping part of circuit, that is giving him his output boost.
In fact, when using 3.7-5 volt input, only the capacitor dump is powering the bulbs, which is why i'm assuming, that SCR thyristor must be firing at a pretty good frequency to make the bulbs look like they are lighting continuously.

Also found this SCR, NTE5466, for $4.
Peak Repetitive Reverse Voltage; Peak Repetitive Off-State Voltage (Note 1), VRRM, VDRM. . . . . . . . .  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .600V
 Non-Repetitive Peak Reverse Voltage; Non-Repetitive Off-State Voltage, VRSM, VDSM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700V
 RMS Forward Current (All Conducting Angles, TC = +75°C), IT(RMS). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10A
 Peak Forward Surge Current (1 Cycle, Sine Wave, 60Hz, TC = +80°C), ITSM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100A
 Circuit Fusing Considerations (TJ = -65° to +100°C, t = 1 to 8.3ms), I2t. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .40A2s
 Forward Peak gate Power (t ≤ 10µs), PGM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16W
 Forward Average Gate Power, PG(AV). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .500mW
 Operating Junction Temperature Range, TJ. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +100°C
 Storage Temperature Range, Tstg. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +150°C
 Thermal Resistance, Junction-to-Case, RthJC. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2°C/W
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 02, 2017, 09:14:24 PM
Hi dieter, i looked up his model scr and it's around $10 on internet.
I found one with a little less specifications, NTE5554 for $6.
Peak Reverse Blocking Voltage (Note 1), VRRM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .400V
 Forward Current (TC= +80°C), IT(RMS). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .25A
 (All Conduction Angles), IT(AV). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16A
 Peak Non-Repetitive Surge Current (8.3ms), ITSM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .300A
 (1/2 Cycle, Sine Wave, 1.5ms). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .350A
 Forward Peak Gate Power, PGM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20W
 Forward Average Gate Power, PG(AV). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.5W
 Forward Peak Gate Current, IGM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2A
 Operating Junction Temperature Range, TJ. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +125°C
 Storage Temperature Range, Tstg. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +150°C
 Thermal Resistance, Junction-to-Case, RthJC. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1.5°C/W

I wonder if this SCR will work good, i will be using a different blocking oscillator for the main circuit though, probably with a ferrite flyback core from a TV.
Because as i see it, it is the capacitor dumping part of circuit, that is giving him his output boost.
In fact, when using 3.7-5 volt input, only the capacitor dump is powering the bulbs, which is why i'm assuming, that SCR thyristor must be firing at a pretty good frequency to make the bulbs look like they are lighting continuously.

Also found this SCR, NTE5466, for $4.
Peak Repetitive Reverse Voltage; Peak Repetitive Off-State Voltage (Note 1), VRRM, VDRM. . . . . . . . .  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .600V
 Non-Repetitive Peak Reverse Voltage; Non-Repetitive Off-State Voltage, VRSM, VDSM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700V
 RMS Forward Current (All Conducting Angles, TC = +75°C), IT(RMS). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10A
 Peak Forward Surge Current (1 Cycle, Sine Wave, 60Hz, TC = +80°C), ITSM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100A
 Circuit Fusing Considerations (TJ = -65° to +100°C, t = 1 to 8.3ms), I2t. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .40A2s
 Forward Peak gate Power (t ≤ 10µs), PGM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16W
 Forward Average Gate Power, PG(AV). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .500mW
 Operating Junction Temperature Range, TJ. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +100°C
 Storage Temperature Range, Tstg. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +150°C
 Thermal Resistance, Junction-to-Case, RthJC. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2°C/W
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 02, 2017, 09:21:03 PM
Here is what the setup looks like.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 02, 2017, 09:31:07 PM
the coil
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 02, 2017, 10:14:32 PM
Hi magnetman, thanks for sharing the pics.
Just to verify, the led bulbs are 12 volt DC input correct.
So no problems with the capacitor dump voltage being so high, the 12 volt led bulbs are not being damaged by this.
Maybe because the capacitor capacitance value being so low, is why it's not frying the leds inside the bulb.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 02, 2017, 10:18:57 PM
Hi dieter, i looked up his model scr and it's around $10 on internet.
I found one with a little less specifications, NTE5554 for $6.
Peak Reverse Blocking Voltage (Note 1), VRRM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .400V
 Forward Current (TC= +80°C), IT(RMS). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .25A
 (All Conduction Angles), IT(AV). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16A
 Peak Non-Repetitive Surge Current (8.3ms), ITSM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .300A
 (1/2 Cycle, Sine Wave, 1.5ms). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .350A
 Forward Peak Gate Power, PGM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .20W
 Forward Average Gate Power, PG(AV). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.5W
 Forward Peak Gate Current, IGM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2A
 Operating Junction Temperature Range, TJ. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +125°C
 Storage Temperature Range, Tstg. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +150°C
 Thermal Resistance, Junction-to-Case, RthJC. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1.5°C/W

I wonder if this SCR will work good, i will be using a different blocking oscillator for the main circuit though, probably with a ferrite flyback core from a TV.
Because as i see it, it is the capacitor dumping part of circuit, that is giving him his output boost.
In fact, when using 3.7-5 volt input, only the capacitor dump is powering the bulbs, which is why i'm assuming, that SCR thyristor must be firing at a pretty good frequency to make the bulbs look like they are lighting continuously.

Also found this SCR, NTE5466, for $4.
Peak Repetitive Reverse Voltage; Peak Repetitive Off-State Voltage (Note 1), VRRM, VDRM. . . . . . . . .  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .600V
 Non-Repetitive Peak Reverse Voltage; Non-Repetitive Off-State Voltage, VRSM, VDSM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 700V
 RMS Forward Current (All Conducting Angles, TC = +75°C), IT(RMS). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10A
 Peak Forward Surge Current (1 Cycle, Sine Wave, 60Hz, TC = +80°C), ITSM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .100A
 Circuit Fusing Considerations (TJ = -65° to +100°C, t = 1 to 8.3ms), I2t. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .40A2s
 Forward Peak gate Power (t ≤ 10µs), PGM. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .16W
 Forward Average Gate Power, PG(AV). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .500mW
 Operating Junction Temperature Range, TJ. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +100°C
 Storage Temperature Range, Tstg. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-40° to +150°C
 Thermal Resistance, Junction-to-Case, RthJC. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2°C/W

This is a HYBRID circuit I made using a lot of thoughts from many different people.  Jonny Davro thought of using the automobile coil to limit hi current to the 35C transistor.   I thought to use this Bedini style circuit with many different parts and a different plastic coated coil wire - my choices.  The low current transistor 35C powers the hi current coil part of the circuit and the hi frequency, voltage, and current BACK EMF (radiant energy??) is dumped into the bridge rectifier and capacitor.

This is where this becomes interesting:    Since I figured the radiant energy from the coil needs to be used some place I found a article (now deleted) from the internet about how to gather and use radiant energy using an antenna system.  It was posted by Andrew Munsey.   So I directed the cap to dump is collected radiant energy into the SCR and see what happens.  I burned up a brand new watt meter doing this only to find the circuit worked with the shorted watt meter in place????  I substituted A section of wire in its place and the circuit has worked flawlessly to this date.
I even had it working using a very small 12 volt 27A cell.     It also will work with 24 volts DC but take care unless you burn up your 12 volt bulbs,



Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 02, 2017, 10:30:20 PM
Hi magnetman, thanks for sharing the pics.
Just to verify, the led bulbs are 12 volt DC input correct.
So no problems with the capacitor dump voltage being so high, the 12 volt led bulbs are not being damaged by this.
Maybe because the capacitor capacitance value being so low, is why it's not frying the leds inside the bulb.
peace love light
   Correct  - 12 volt input.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Zephir on April 03, 2017, 01:16:16 AM
3100 mAh 18650 battery can give (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmCnL0MRGrE) 20A at 3.7 volts easily, which corresponds 20 x 3.7 = 74 watts of power
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 03, 2017, 01:26:08 AM
Hi magnetman,

Please check the wiring connection of the thyristor pins in your schematic versus your setup
(you uploaded the schematic in previous page, Reply #10) because I think there is a drawing error.

The K pin (Cathode) ought to go to the negative rail (I mean the emitter pin of the TIP35C transistor
as negative rail) and the center pin A (Anode) of the thyristor ought to go the negative end of capacitor C1
(which is on the left hand side of C1 symbol). I think this would be the correct wiring.
The Glimm lamp is okay between A and G  (G=Gate).
(In your schematic, the K pin goes to the negative end of the capacitor C1 and the A pin goes directly
to the negative rail.)

I edited your drawing to show how I mean.  Here is a data sheet on the thyristor:
http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/e4/31/81/91/1a/e2/49/17/DM00085949.pdf/files/DM00085949.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00085949.pdf (http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/e4/31/81/91/1a/e2/49/17/DM00085949.pdf/files/DM00085949.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00085949.pdf)   

If you disagree with my schematic modification, please tell.

Gyula

EDIT   Thanks to member citfta's explanation I deleted my drawing because it was not a correct modification.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 03, 2017, 02:32:25 AM
Hi magnetman,

Please check the wiring connection of the thyristor pins in your schematic versus your setup
(you uploaded the schematic in previous page, Reply #10) because I think there is a drawing error.

The K pin (Cathode) ought to go to the negative rail (I mean the emitter pin of the TIP35C transistor
as negative rail) and the center pin A (Anode) of the thyristor ought to go the negative end of capacitor C1
(which is on the left hand side of C1 symbol). I think this would be the correct wiring.
The Glimm lamp is okay between A and G  (G=Gate).
(In your schematic, the K pin goes to the negative end of the capacitor C1 and the A pin goes directly
to the negative rail.)

I edited your drawing to show how I mean.  Here is a data sheet on the thyristor:
http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/e4/31/81/91/1a/e2/49/17/DM00085949.pdf/files/DM00085949.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00085949.pdf (http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/technical/document/datasheet/e4/31/81/91/1a/e2/49/17/DM00085949.pdf/files/DM00085949.pdf/jcr:content/translations/en.DM00085949.pdf)   

If you disagree with my schematic modification, please tell.

Gyula
The black dots on the schematic are where connections are made.  The bent line you pointed out is a jumper.
no connection at midpoint is made.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: citfta on April 03, 2017, 02:54:20 AM
Hi Gyula,

I am afraid I have to disagree with your correction.  His schematic seems to be correct to me.  If you consider the output circuit to be separate from the input makes it easier to see what is happening with the SCR.  The input and output are sharing the same negative rail but they don't have to for the circuit to work.  In your mind break the negative rail just to the right of the connection of the neon that goes to diode D2.  Now look at the SCR circuit.  You can now see that the SCR has to have the cathode connected to the negative side of  C1 or it could not turn on.  Also as you have corrected it there is no way for a positive signal to get to the gate to turn on the SCR.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 03, 2017, 05:46:02 AM
Hi all, thanks for the clarification magnetman.
I will be picking up an SCR soon to build this device and couple other parts.
One more thing magnetman, is the neon lighting up fairly constantly, if you can even see it light up that is.
I guess it is, or you would probably see the led bulbs increase and decrease in brightness.
Are the led bulbs lighted in a stable way or can you detect any fluctuations.
Anyway, i will be building this.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 03, 2017, 06:47:50 AM
Hi all, thanks for the clarification magnetman.
I will be picking up an SCR soon to build this device and couple other parts.
One more thing magnetman, is the neon lighting up fairly constantly, if you can even see it light up that is.
I guess it is, or you would probably see the led bulbs increase and decrease in brightness.
Are the led bulbs lighted in a stable way or can you detect any fluctuations.
Anyway, i will be building this.
peace love light
  The neon bulbs light up at different intervals depending on what you are experimenting with. But most of the time you cant see them lit.  As far as the 8 led bulbs go they seem to keep good brightness constant at least to my eyes when powered by 1.2 AH 12 volt battery or wall wart.  8 bulbs will light up dimmer when a power source with little current is used.  Say you powered it with a very small 27A - 12 volt battery or same with 5 volts out of a USB  battery charger. I have been experimenting with this circuit now for 3 years and it still keeps on working like the battery bunny on TV

Its the most interesting circuit I have ever put together that keeps you guessing what its capable of doing


Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 03, 2017, 12:29:02 PM
Hi Gyula,

I am afraid I have to disagree with your correction.  His schematic seems to be correct to me. 
If you consider the output circuit to be separate from the input makes it easier to see what
is happening with the SCR.  The input and output are sharing the same negative rail but they
don't have to for the circuit to work.  In your mind break the negative rail just to the right of the
connection of the neon that goes to diode D2.  Now look at the SCR circuit.  You can now see
that the SCR has to have the cathode connected to the negative side of  C1 or it could not turn on. 
Also as you have corrected it there is no way for a positive signal to get to the gate to turn on the SCR.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Hi Carroll,

Yes, you are correct. Unfortunately, in my mind I mixed up the position of the thyristor switch as if
it would be in series with the load  while in magnetman's circuit it is in series with capacitor C1 which
is the voltage source for the load.

I deleted my incorrect drawing from my post.

Thank you.

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: citfta on April 03, 2017, 02:09:33 PM
Hi Gyula,

You are welcome.  I made a similar mistake a couple of weeks ago.  I had a circuit all designed on paper.  It was only after I started putting parts together on a piece of perboard that I realized my circuit wouldn't work like I wanted it too.  So it was back to the drawing board again. :-[   I guess most of us do that from time to time.

Take care,
Carroll
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 03, 2017, 07:38:23 PM
Hi all, thanks for the clarification magnetman.
I will be picking up an SCR soon to build this device and couple other parts.
One more thing magnetman, is the neon lighting up fairly constantly, if you can even see it light up that is.
I guess it is, or you would probably see the led bulbs increase and decrease in brightness.
Are the led bulbs lighted in a stable way or can you detect any fluctuations.
Anyway, i will be building this.
peace love light
I got my SCR here:    http://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-BTW69-1200-TO-3P-Transistors-30-/181594122155?hash=item2a47da67ab:g:zs0AAOxyY9VROB7P
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 04, 2017, 04:41:05 AM
Hi magnetman, thanks for the link, i'm going to try the NTE5554, since i can get that locally.
I salvaged a 2SC5359 NPN transistor for the oscillator, taken from a powered subwoofer and i had on hand, a jamicon 150uF-450volt low resistance type capacitor.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 04, 2017, 06:13:43 AM
Hi magnetman, thanks for the link, i'm going to try the NTE5554, since i can get that locally.
I salvaged a 2SC5359 NPN transistor for the oscillator, taken from a powered subwoofer and i had on hand, a jamicon 150uF-450volt low resistance type capacitor.
peace love light
  As soon as it arrives I have a 72 watt 12 volt wall wart coming I plan to power the 8 seven watt bulbs with.
8x7 = 56 watts.  So that's more than enough power to light all the bulbs.
If I see say 40 watts is being used at that time on my DC wattmeter.  I would have to think that the setup itself is furnishing the rest of the extra power (16watts) to fully light the bulbs at 56 watts??? Does this sound far fetched?
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 04, 2017, 08:08:33 AM
Hi magnetman, i don't think anything is far fetched anymore.
Bedini was using capacitor dump circuits for good reason.
First off, capacitors capture the radiant the best and capacitor discharges can have out of ordinary effects.
Many of Teslas non ordinary results, were with capacitor discharges and boosted further with quenched spark gaps.
peace love light

Edit: one issue i see with your circuit magnetman, if you use 12 volt input, the full wave bridge allows input source current to flow direct to the led bulbs.
Maybe the capacitor discharge helps to decrease the required current from the input source, since the capacitor will be discharging at a higher voltage.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Vickysong on April 05, 2017, 05:13:39 AM
Thanks for the video. So the twisted coil is plastic coated wire. Fotos and Vids of the actual device help a lot.


Now, where to get such a SCR, are they expensive?


kr

no, it is not expensive, you can search it from www.hkinventory.com
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 05, 2017, 08:59:23 AM
Hi all, Hi magnetman, i have a question for you.
I noticed you said you cannot see the neon lighting up, that triggers the SCR, are you sure the SCR is not latching ON in your setup.
My build is coming along, i have the oscillator built and running, been testing some led bulbs off the capacitor, still need to get the SCR.
I'm not going to use the full wave bridge, i have 2 ultra fast diodes, one off collector to positive of capacitor and one off positive of primary coil, to negative of capacitor.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 05, 2017, 09:26:09 PM
Hi all, Hi magnetman, i have a question for you.
I noticed you said you cannot see the neon lighting up, that triggers the SCR, are you sure the SCR is not latching ON in your setup.
My build is coming along, i have the oscillator built and running, been testing some led bulbs off the capacitor, still need to get the SCR.
I'm not going to use the full wave bridge, i have 2 ultra fast diodes, one off collector to positive of capacitor and one off positive of primary coil, to negative of capacitor.
peace love light
  If you have the rectifier and capacitor running  you should notice that you have hi voltage, current now(with no hi frequency) after rectification. I am at a loss just how to explain how the SCR manages to bring down the voltage and current enough so that the bulbs lite without burning up. I know one thing for certain that the Neon bulbs show no visible light when things are going great. If something is wrong one or both neon lights will start glowing??? The greater the glow the worse the problem.  CRAZY!  I have experienced this many times while experimenting but the circuit never burned out.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 05, 2017, 10:28:45 PM
Hi magnetman, ok thanks for the good information.
I popped both of my gutted lower voltage led bulbs, forgot to turn off circuit and capacitor had high voltage and poof.
I only have 110 volt led bulbs on hand.
That is why i was wondering if your SCR was latching on, because i think the neon takes like 60 or so volts to conduct current and then turn on the SCR.
If your capacitor is discharging at 60 volts or more, those 12 volt led bulbs of yours should go poof, unless there is some kind of circuit inside your 12 volt led bulb that is preventing that.
I made a video of my build so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DT7IzPbGD0&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DT7IzPbGD0&feature=youtu.be)
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 06, 2017, 01:12:40 AM
Hi magnetman, ok thanks for the good information.
I popped both of my gutted lower voltage led bulbs, forgot to turn off circuit and capacitor had high voltage and poof.
I only have 110 volt led bulbs on hand.
That is why i was wondering if your SCR was latching on, because i think the neon takes like 60 or so volts to conduct current and then turn on the SCR.
If your capacitor is discharging at 60 volts or more, those 12 volt led bulbs of yours should go poof, unless there is some kind of circuit inside your 12 volt led bulb that is preventing that.
I made a video of my build so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DT7IzPbGD0&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DT7IzPbGD0&feature=youtu.be)
peace love light
A very nice circuit layout!  I hope you get the same results as I did using different components.  I see your air coil is way different than mine.   I had the same effect with pulsing led bulbs as you show in your video.
After I purchased different 120 volts and 12 volt bulbs I found that some don't work at all, some work but  they PULSE, some work only if a magnet is spun by the air core coil, and some 12 volt bulbs work very well without a magnet spin like my videos show.  I spent 3 years experimenting with this circuit and my basement is lit up with 120 volt led bulbs that work down there but would not work in the setup.  I have at the least 200 pounds of experimental parts that I have to sell now. Some are brand new that were never used.  My passion searching for free energy drives my wife crazy.  But always keeps me thinking.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Xenon-White-7W-12V-E27-E26-Home-LED-RV-Boat-Factory-Energy-Saving-Bulb-Lights/281894178226?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3D149a459aee004ff58dc8832b39f3c9b0%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D282035345186
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 06, 2017, 05:04:05 AM
Hi magnetman, thanks for the kind words.
The circuit as shown in the video is using a little less than 1/2 watt, so it takes a little time to charge the cap. up to the forward voltage of that led bulb.
I wired 2 of those 3.7 volt lithium ion cells in series and it can light that particular led bulb very bright, with no gap between flashes, just the flash, fading to almost nothing, then flash.
A eco-smart 6 watt 120 volt led bulb will light bright and constant at 2 watts, though probably 75% of full brightness.
I am trying to figure out why you are not blowing your led bulbs, i see the link you posted says 'constant current drive power', could that mean they have some current regulation in those bulbs and would explain why they are not going poof.
Until i know why, i probably will not by 12 volt led bulbs, yet.
Also, do you realize, with your full wave bridge shown in your circuit, at 12 volt input, your led bulbs are being direct driven by the 12 volt input source.
I should be getting the SCR towards end of week.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 06, 2017, 05:38:38 AM
Hi magnetman, thanks for the kind words.
The circuit as shown in the video is using a little less than 1/2 watt, so it takes a little time to charge the cap. up to the forward voltage of that led bulb.
I wired 2 of those 3.7 volt lithium ion cells in series and it can light that particular led bulb very bright, with no gap between flashes, just the flash, fading to almost nothing, then flash.
A eco-smart 6 watt 120 volt led bulb will light bright and constant at 2 watts, though probably 75% of full brightness.
I am trying to figure out why you are not blowing your led bulbs, i see the link you posted says 'constant current drive power', could that mean they have some current regulation in those bulbs and would explain why they are not going poof.
Until i know why, i probably will not by 12 volt led bulbs, yet.
Also, do you realize, with your full wave bridge shown in your circuit, at 12 volt input, your led bulbs are being direct driven by the 12 volt input source. 
I should be getting the SCR towards end of week.
peace love light
   The positive terminal on the led bulbs feeds from the high voltage OUTPUT C1 Rectifier/capacitor terminal. Direct driven  ?????
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 06, 2017, 08:35:44 AM
Hi magnetman, yes, follow the positive input line and it goes through the top right diode of full wave bridge, direct into led bulb and the negative input is already connected. With 5 volt input, it probably doesn't forward bias the led bulb on, though at 12 volt input, it is direct drive, minus diode voltage drop.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 07, 2017, 06:59:11 PM
Hi all, Hi magnetman, i picked up an NTE5554 yesterday and wired it up.
I see the neon lighting and sometimes the neon pulses, goes dim and then bright, can't seem to get it to dump the capacitor, tried a couple different wiring methods.
I will try it out of circuit, with a lower voltage lithium ion to try and trigger it properly, hope i didn't blow it, we shall see.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 07, 2017, 10:10:22 PM
Hi all, Hi magnetman, i picked up an NTE5554 yesterday and wired it up.
I see the neon lighting and sometimes the neon pulses, goes dim and then bright, can't seem to get it to dump the capacitor, tried a couple different wiring methods.
I will try it out of circuit, with a lower voltage lithium ion to try and trigger it properly, hope i didn't blow it, we shall see.
peace love light
  Try adjusting the R2 and R3 pots.  My setup worked best when R2 was fully counter clockwise facing it and R3 was fully clockwise facing it.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 07, 2017, 10:52:15 PM
Hi magnetman, thanks for the reply.
I used the SCR test circuit with 12 volt battery, 12 volt incandescent bulb and 290 ohm resistor to gate, to check and see if it was ok, it is ok.
I then rewired the neon and SCR capacitor dump section, just like the test circuit and still no dumping happening.
I have a different oscillator than yours magnetman, using the meissner oscillator to charge the capacitor.
Still, i do not understand why this is not working, maybe the neon i have is not giving enough current into the gate, compared to the neon bulb you are using.
It's one of those green radio shack neons, with plastic encapsulated.
It's this neon. https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-120-volt-neon-green-lamp-2-pack (https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-120-volt-neon-green-lamp-2-pack)
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 08, 2017, 10:12:34 PM
Hi magnetman, thanks for the reply.
I used the SCR test circuit with 12 volt battery, 12 volt incandescent bulb and 290 ohm resistor to gate, to check and see if it was ok, it is ok.
I then rewired the neon and SCR capacitor dump section, just like the test circuit and still no dumping happening.
I have a different oscillator than yours magnetman, using the meissner oscillator to charge the capacitor.
Still, i do not understand why this is not working, maybe the neon i have is not giving enough current into the gate, compared to the neon bulb you are using.
It's one of those green radio shack neons, with plastic encapsulated.
It's this neon. https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-120-volt-neon-green-lamp-2-pack (https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-120-volt-neon-green-lamp-2-pack)
peace love light
When I was still in the building stages of this particular circuit I tried out many different neon bulbs and found out very quickly that a lot of them turned black rapidly and burned out. The transistor  gave it up also.  Then I tried the B7A neon bulbs and had no further trouble. They never turned black and failed.  So far the finished circuit I have shown has never failed me yet.    I would love to try one of those USB battery chargers that steps up A SINGLE 1.5 VOLT AA battery to 5 volts output.  Connect that to the circuit and see if the 8  seven watt bulbs lite up.  Presently I am using a single 18650 3.7 volt battery inside a USB charger to do this. Like to buy locally instead of out of China.  Know of any retailer?
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 08, 2017, 10:56:00 PM
....
maybe the neon i have is not giving enough current into the gate, compared to the neon bulb you are using.
....

Hi Tyson,

Yes this may explain why the thyristor is not turning on. Magnetman's neon type, B7A has a 2mA current when flashes
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1657095.pdf (http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1657095.pdf) ,  common neon bulbs normally have around 1mA or less current.

Your NTE5554 http://www.nteinc.com/specs/5500to5599/pdf/nte5550_58.pdf (http://www.nteinc.com/specs/5500to5599/pdf/nte5550_58.pdf)  is not specified for a minimum gate trigger current, only for a maximum 40 mA, and typically 25 mA,  while the BTW69-1200 is specified as minimum 8mA but this latter type is obviously more sensitive then 8mA the data sheet says if I accept the 2 mA current for the B7A. Of course this 2 mA can be higher if the DC voltage in C1 is higher than 120V in magnetman's setup.

If you have not managed to trigger your NTE thyristor in the meantime, I would suggest considering crowbar circuits that use thyristors, you surely know about such circuits. Here the gate trigger current comes via a Zener diode chosen for the voltage levels involved. See this link: http://axotron.se/index_en.php?page=26 (http://axotron.se/index_en.php?page=26)

If you happen to have some 15V or 24V Zener diodes at hand, you could put a few of them in series and replace the neon bulb with them. The resistor R1 between the gate and the cathode of the SCR could be say 1-2 kOhm and for Zener safety connect a 4.7kOhm to 10 kOhm resistor in series with the Zener_series_string to limit Zener current. This way you would have higher current injection into the gate than you have from the neon now (maybe the Radioshack neon lamps have a built in series resistor to limit current and this reduces the possibility of triggering the SCR even more?)

By the way, what DC voltage is collected in your capacitor C1 from your oscillator?  80 - 100V?

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: TinselKoala on April 08, 2017, 11:17:51 PM
Neons, when the plasma is present, have practically zero resistance. Hence they will draw whatever the current source can supply, even to the point of violent self-destruction. The current specifications like 2mA for the B7A are nominal currents,  that must be limited to that value by the use of a resistor. The B7A has a 30 k current-limiting resistor built in, according to the data sheet linked above,  and the RadioShack 120V neon indicator assemblies also have a resistor in the housing.

Quote
common neon bulbs normally have around 1mA or less current.
It is more correct to say that these neons will glow nicely at 1mA or less current, but the current must be limited to this value externally, either by a current-limiting resistor or by using a power source that cannot deliver more current.

If they are allowed to draw more current than the nominal value, several things happen. First the color shifts from the usual reddish-orange toward more red and eventually purple, and if a power arc forms between the electrodes with enough current, they go white and then they explode. Second, with more than the nominal current they heat up, and the electrodes start vaporizing and cause the glass to become blackened or even totally black as the electrode material is sputter-coated onto the glass. I'm sure everyone who have built Bedini circuits with neons have seen their neons glow purplish at times and over time they see the glass become blackened.

If the neon is used to trigger the thyristor, I would suggest using a bare neon, like NE-2 or NE-2a, with no series resistor.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Ispeed on April 09, 2017, 08:51:22 AM
Hi mangnetman,

I can see a very good job done by you, weldone. please am from nigeria and am not an electric guy, i want to know if you can help me build a working system board and put the schematic drawing then send it to nigeria i would appricate and ready to pay for the cost. Thanks.

N.B. Please how long does the battery last before it rundown.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: markdansie on April 09, 2017, 03:31:22 PM
Hi all
I have one really dumb question to ask. How long does a 18650 3.7 volt battery last running these lights and what is the mA of the battery. I.E 2600?


Kind Regards
Mark
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 09, 2017, 11:40:47 PM
Hi all
I have one really dumb question to ask. How long does a 18650 3.7 volt battery last running these lights and what is the mA of the battery. I.E 2600?

Your question is not dumb. The 18650 3.7 volt 5800 ma battery is inside the USB charger that delivers 5 volts to the setup.  The 8 seven watt 12 volt bulbs will light up brightly for 5 minutes and all go out at one time.  Now using the same battery and charger I gave the battery a short rest where its not powering anything.  Then I can repeat the above again with same results.  I also did it a third time with same results!!!!!???  Really weird as you would think the battery would have given up on the first try.  Somehow the circuit is turning 5 volts to 12 with enough current to keep all bulbs lit.

Kind Regards
Mark
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: markdansie on April 10, 2017, 09:30:18 AM
Thanks for the feed back.
 
That makes a lot of sense given these lithiums can have a lot of bounce when exhausted.
You can also get commercial step up DC to Dc circuits and test them as a reference or control.


The amount of energy you are using in those 5 minute windows are easily achieved with a good quality Lithium battery .


Kind Regards
Mark
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 11, 2017, 05:56:43 AM
Thanks for the feed back.
 
That makes a lot of sense given these lithiums can have a lot of bounce when exhausted.
You can also get commercial step up DC to Dc circuits and test them as a reference or control.


The amount of energy you are using in those 5 minute windows are easily achieved with a good quality Lithium battery .


Kind Regards
Mark
  When I connected a 3.7 volt battery directly into the circuit input NO bulbs light up.  But put the same battery into a USB cell phone charger powering the circuit all 8 seven watt 12 volt  bulbs burn brightly then cut off after 5 minutes.  Rest the battery and can repeat many times.   Unable to exhaust the battery after numerous tries.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: TinselKoala on April 11, 2017, 06:00:15 AM
I'm guessing here... but maybe the "cutoff" after five minutes is due to the USB charger's chip entering thermal shutdown mode, rather than anything happening to the battery.

You could test this by feeling the chip with your finger to see if it's excessively hot and if the charger starts up again after it cools. A q-tip with a little isopropyl alcohol (evaporates quickly from hot chips) can also be used.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: markdansie on April 11, 2017, 06:19:54 AM
Hi TK
That is a pretty good guess. Some of the cheaper power banks do not use the thermal function but this makes the most sense.
Some of the nastier lithiums bounce a lot, the quality ones do not as much.
Kind Regards
Mark
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 11, 2017, 06:19:47 PM
I'm guessing here... but maybe the "cutoff" after five minutes is due to the USB charger's chip entering thermal shutdown mode, rather than anything happening to the battery.

You could test this by feeling the chip with your finger to see if it's excessively hot and if the charger starts up again after it cools. A q-tip with a little isopropyl alcohol (evaporates quickly from hot chips) can also be used.
I was wandering if there is a larger  circuit that uses a AA (1.5 volts) battery to deliver 5 volts USB power.  This circuit would have to have  components that would not be subject to thermal shutdown  such as the miniature USB circuits that are common.  I would love to see how long a common AA alkaline battery would last in this circuit rather than the 18650 battery  A"" heavy duty"" circuit for the 18650 3.7 volt battery would be nice also.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: URFA on April 11, 2017, 09:49:18 PM
Hi Magnetman.
Your setup very nice.
I made a similar setup to yours. I used a tesla coil as a radiant energy source. And I charge the capacitor through rectifier from tesla coil. Condenser filling with radiant energy  and discharge in my setup like yours. In my setup negative input and negative output similar to your setup but a little different,not connected directly. We must rest-created radiant energy to get it, then merge into the condenser and add the current. Radiant charges condenser instanly without wasting time you know. I did not use a thyristor in my setup. But I will use thyristors as soon as possible. I'm sure the result will be yours.

Here is my setup link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVTS6zmv7LE&t=18s

Input: 12V 0.1A
Output load 220V 18Watt Hologen bulb.( I burn about 12 bulbs in my experiment.Because I have enormous power for 18w bulb)


Best regards.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 12, 2017, 05:36:01 AM
I'm guessing here... but maybe the "cutoff" after five minutes is due to the USB charger's chip entering thermal shutdown mode, rather than anything happening to the battery.

You could test this by feeling the chip with your finger to see if it's excessively hot and if the charger starts up again after it cools. A q-tip with a little isopropyl alcohol (evaporates quickly from hot chips) can also be used.
  I think you are correct about thermal shutdown as the test leads alligator clips get warm after 5 minutes.  I can imagine the miniature circuitry inside the USB charger getting hot delivering the current to the 8 bulbs then shutting down without burning up.   I am going to try a 5 volt power supply next to see what happens.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 12, 2017, 05:46:13 PM
  I think you are correct about thermal shutdown as the test leads alligator clips get warm after 5 minutes.  I can imagine the miniature circuitry inside the USB charger getting hot delivering the current to the 8 bulbs then shutting down without burning up.   I am going to try a 5 volt power supply next to see what happens.
    I just tried a plug in USB 5 volt device that is much larger than the miniature devices.  The setup powers 8 twelve volt 7 watt led  bulbs with no problem continuously!!  Latest video on the You tube.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=FbwxaSxw3jo
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 12, 2017, 08:40:53 PM
Hi URFA,

Thanks for showing your interesting setup. You use the word 'radiant energy', I respect that, though I prefer saying you use (volt-ampere) reactive power from a resonant (Tesla) LC circuit.   8)

Would you mind using your analog ampermeter set to 250mA DC range (instead of the 10A)? Just to see the 100 mA much better...  lol     
I know you did not claim anything and it is possible that your meter may be wrong in its 250mA DC range.

It would be good to estimate the output power your incandescent bulb receives periodically from the puffer capacitor(s) via the switching relay.  Have you done any attempt to measure the DC voltages across the capacitor(s) just before the discharge moment and just after it? This way the energy (hence power) used from the puffer caps could be estimated. 
I am just curious...  :)   I assume you may perhaps use a two stage switching at the output as per Doug Konzen? to separate the load from the source?

Thanks
Gyula

Hi Magnetman.
Your setup very nice.
I made a similar setup to yours. I used a tesla coil as a radiant energy source. And I charge the capacitor through rectifier from tesla coil. Condenser filling with radiant energy  and discharge in my setup like yours. In my setup negative input and negative output similar to your setup but a little different,not connected directly. We must rest-created radiant energy to get it, then merge into the condenser and add the current. Radiant charges condenser instanly without wasting time you know. I did not use a thyristor in my setup. But I will use thyristors as soon as possible. I'm sure the result will be yours.

Here is my setup link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVTS6zmv7LE&t=18s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVTS6zmv7LE&t=18s)

Input: 12V 0.1A
Output load 220V 18Watt Hologen bulb.( I burn about 12 bulbs in my experiment.Because I have enormous power for 18w bulb)


Best regards.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 13, 2017, 12:08:24 AM
    I just tried a plug in USB 5 volt device that is much larger than the miniature devices.  The setup powers 8 twelve volt 7 watt led  bulbs with no problem continuously!!  Latest video on the You tube.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=FbwxaSxw3jo (https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=FbwxaSxw3jo)

Hi magnetman,

If we consider that 56W is indeed taken out from your circuit setup by the 8 LED bulbs, then let us just assume the DC power taken from
the USB 5V device by your setup is also 56W for the shake of simplicity and assuming COP=1 only. At 5V DC output voltage from the USB device
the current involved ought to be around I=56W/5V=11 Amper.
If the LED bulbs do not consume 56W but say only 40W, the current taken from the USB device would still be 8 Amper still assuming the COP=1  'simple' case.

I suggest measuring this current where the USB device's 5V output feeds your setup. I took a snapshot from your video to show where you could insert an Ampermeter set to at least to 10A or even 20A DC current range (most DMMs are able to measure at least 10A). I indicated the where you can check the DC 5V too when the setup is running, and no need to use 2 meters if you do not have 2 at hand. You could use 1 DMM because the 5V DC voltage is unlikely to change when you measure the current. And the current will not change when you measure the 5V DC of course.

By knowing the current and voltage values we can estimate much better the power relations of your setup.
By the way, do you happen to have technical specification for the 5V USB plug-in device? maybe type?

Thanks,
Gyula

PS your video link above does not work, here is the correct one:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbwxaSxw3jo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbwxaSxw3jo)   
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 13, 2017, 03:30:14 AM
Hi all, this is not exactly like magnetmans setup, though has practical use value.
It is essentially a joule thief oscillator type, using a ferrite TV flyback c-core.
It is using 4 watts of input power from a 12 volt tractor battery.
Here is short video showing lighting level. 5 led bulbs are lighted, 2 are together towards the back.
https://youtu.be/C3vl1w62aaU (https://youtu.be/C3vl1w62aaU)
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 13, 2017, 04:08:25 AM
Hi magnetman,

If we consider that 56W is indeed taken out from your circuit setup by the 8 LED bulbs, then let us just assume the DC power taken from
the USB 5V device by your setup is also 56W for the shake of simplicity and assuming COP=1 only. At 5V DC output voltage from the USB device
the current involved ought to be around I=56W/5V=11 Amper.
If the LED bulbs do not consume 56W but say only 40W, the current taken from the USB device would still be 8 Amper still assuming the COP=1  'simple' case.


I suggest measuring this current where the USB device's 5V output feeds your setup. I took a snapshot from your video to show where you could insert an Ampermeter set to at least to 10A or even 20A DC current range (most DMMs are able to measure at least 10A). I indicated the where you can check the DC 5V too when the setup is running, and no need to use 2 meters if you do not have 2 at hand. You could use 1 DMM because the 5V DC voltage is unlikely to change when you measure the current. And the current will not change when you measure the 5V DC of course.

By knowing the current and voltage values we can estimate much better the power relations of your setup.
By the way, do you happen to have technical specification for the 5V USB plug-in device? maybe type?

Thanks,
Gyula

PS your video link above does not work, here is the correct one:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbwxaSxw3jo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbwxaSxw3jo)
      Connected exactly as your photo I read 4.92 volts and .92 amps. All 8 lamps bright.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Plug-5V-2A-USB-Port-Wall-Charger-5-Volt-2-Amp-AC-DC-Power-Adapter-Converter-/131964370462?var=&hash=item1eb9b07e1e:m:mljbrhoJcJmqGRdemPLZoNw
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 13, 2017, 04:52:27 PM
     
Connected exactly as your photo I read 4.92 volts and .92 amps. All 8 lamps bright.
...

Hi magnetman,

Thank you very much for the cooperation!  So the input power to your setup is around 4.5W from the 5V USB plug in device. Very good!

Now we face the puzzle of what electric power the 8 LED lamps may actually consume...   8) Sure they are all bright.

I took a snapshot from one of your videos where the input and output wires can be best seen at the terminal strip.

I encircled in yellow the + (red) and - (black) wires I assume come from your capacitor C1 of your setup and I think the black wire is connected
to the Cathode of your thyristor and the red wire is connected to one of the common point of the 8 LEDs.
(Of course, the Anode of the thyristor is connected to the outcoming black wire by another piece of black wire as I guess it.)

Now if you would be so kind to check the DC voltage across the black and red wires ending in the terminal strip where I indicated a voltmeter
symbol, then we would have an idea how many volts can be in capacitor C1.  It is possible you would find fluctuating
(jumping up and down) voltage values as the thyristor discharges C1 (of course an oscilloscope would be the best here
but you may not have one).  Nevertheless, try to check the voltage there by a DMM both in the DC and AC voltage ranges. 

(Normally a sawtooth like waveform riding on a DC level rules across a puffer capacitor when it is loaded,
the frequency of the sawtooth is dictated by the thyristor: how frequently it is able to discharge the capacitor.)

The output current the LED lamps may consume could be checked in any of their common wires, in your schematic I indicate a current meter
in the negative common wire that goes to the 8 LEDs. But it could be measured also in their common positive wire.
I cannot make it out from the snapshot so I encircled two wires that may go to the LED bulbs, if these indeed go to them, then current could be
checked in any one of them.

Sorry for my 'curiosity' and for any inconvenience I may cause with such questions.  It is possible that using a DMM the true output voltage
and current fed to the LED lamps cannot be measured correctly due to their pulsed nature.
If this proves to be the case I will try to suggest another measuring method,  it would involve using a second electrolytic capacitor now
directly across the LED lamps, just across the main positive and negative output points (i.e. after the thyristor too).

Thanks, Gyula

PS1: I borrowed the LED lamp symbols from Skywatcher's nice schematic and inserted it into your schematic. We know he has used 5 and
you use 8 LED lamps of course.

PS2: I indicated the input-output connection with a long red arrow via one of the bridge diodes when your input voltage was around 12V DC
and Skywatcher mentioned it that the input could feed the LEDs via that diode. Now with your present 5V USB plug in device this is not
a problem because from 5V input the LED lamps cannot work at all.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 14, 2017, 12:30:50 AM
Hi magnetman,

Thank you very much for the cooperation!  So the input power to your setup is around 4.5W from the 5V USB plug in device. Very good!

Now we face the puzzle of what electric power the 8 LED lamps may actually consume...   8) Sure they are all bright.

I took a snapshot from one of your videos where the input and output wires can be best seen at the terminal strip.

I encircled in yellow the + (red) and - (black) wires I assume come from your capacitor C1 of your setup and I think the black wire is connected
to the Cathode of your thyristor and the red wire is connected to one of the common point of the 8 LEDs.
(Of course, the Anode of the thyristor is connected to the outcoming black wire by another piece of black wire as I guess it.)

Now if you would be so kind to check the DC voltage across the black and red wires ending in the terminal strip where I indicated a voltmeter
symbol, then we would have an idea how many volts can be in capacitor C1.  It is possible you would find fluctuating
(jumping up and down) voltage values as the thyristor discharges C1 (of course an oscilloscope would be the best here
but you may not have one).  Nevertheless, try to check the voltage there by a DMM both in the DC and AC voltage ranges. 

(Normally a sawtooth like waveform riding on a DC level rules across a puffer capacitor when it is loaded,
the frequency of the sawtooth is dictated by the thyristor: how frequently it is able to discharge the capacitor.)

The output current the LED lamps may consume could be checked in any of their common wires, in your schematic I indicate a current meter
in the negative common wire that goes to the 8 LEDs. But it could be measured also in their common positive wire.
I cannot make it out from the snapshot so I encircled two wires that may go to the LED bulbs, if these indeed go to them, then current could be
checked in any one of them.

Sorry for my 'curiosity' and for any inconvenience I may cause with such questions.  It is possible that using a DMM the true output voltage
and current fed to the LED lamps cannot be measured correctly due to their pulsed nature.
If this proves to be the case I will try to suggest another measuring method,  it would involve using a second electrolytic capacitor now
directly across the LED lamps, just across the main positive and negative output points (i.e. after the thyristor too).

Thanks, Gyula

PS1: I borrowed the LED lamp symbols from Skywatcher's nice schematic and inserted it into your schematic. We know he has used 5 and
you use 8 LED lamps of course.

PS2: I indicated the input-output connection with a long red arrow via one of the bridge diodes when your input voltage was around 12V DC
and Skywatcher mentioned it that the input could feed the LEDs via that diode. Now with your present 5V USB plug in device this is not
a problem because from 5V input the LED lamps cannot work at all.
   USB input to setup  5.03 volts at 1.15 amps. (5.7845 watts)  Output from setup capacitor to bulbs  5.93 volts at 1.03 amps  (6.1079 watts)  I checked this many times and came up to the same results.
A plus .3234 watts unknown ?? power.  All bulbs lit brightly during the test.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 14, 2017, 02:04:59 PM
   USB input to setup  5.03 volts at 1.15 amps. (5.7845 watts)  Output from setup capacitor to bulbs 
5.93 volts at 1.03 amps  (6.1079 watts)  I checked this many times and came up to the same results.
A plus .3234 watts unknown ?? power.  All bulbs lit brightly during the test.


Hi magnetman,

Many thanks for doing those measurements.

I would like to ask: when you said the "output from the setup capacitor to the bulbs", did you mean the 5.93V
across capacitor C1 or across the positive OUT and the negative IN and OUT points? In your schematic these
two latter points are indicated as OUT+  and  IN AND OUT-.   But I do not know where these two points are
in the snapshot photo I attached in my previous mail, I put two ? onto two wires I guess they are. 

For me the "setup capacitor" designation would mean your C1 capacitor and that the 5.93V was measured
across it, is this correct? If yes, then please measure the DC voltage output across the OUT+ and
the IN AND OUT- points too.
And if you meant the latter two points having the 5.93V across, then please measure the voltage across C1
at the terminal strip where I included a voltmeter symbol in the snapshot photo attached to my above post.

In this schema below I included capacitor C2 I would like to suggest you apply for test purposes, this capacitor
would help filter the DC output coming from C1 via the thyristor. The value of this filter electrolytic cap,
C2 could be any uF like say 470uF and higher, voltage rating could be say 40V DC (you are working at
5V input now). And between the OUT+ and IN AND OUT- points the peak voltage level (due to the thyristor
switching) would not be higher than say 15-20V peak value, (this could nicely be seen on a scope).

Sorry for my quest for such details on your setup, my aim is to help explore such circuits exhibiting unusual
behaviour i.e in your case giving "a plus .3234 W unknown?? power". Thanks again for your cooperation.

Greetings
Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 14, 2017, 02:28:05 PM
Hi all, this is not exactly like magnetmans setup, though has practical use value.
It is essentially a joule thief oscillator type, using a ferrite TV flyback c-core.
It is using 4 watts of input power from a 12 volt tractor battery.
Here is short video showing lighting level. 5 led bulbs are lighted, 2 are together towards the back.
https://youtu.be/C3vl1w62aaU (https://youtu.be/C3vl1w62aaU)
peace love light

Hi Skywatcher,

Indeed very good lighting level in comparison to 4W input, thanks for the video too.  I guess this good impression
might come also from the good distributive nature of positioning the 5 LEDs to illuminate the most space in the room.

Because you use 120V LEDs, there is perhaps not much sense using a thyristor or any similar device to switch
energy out from your 150 uF puffer capacitor because the needed 120V is comparable to the amplitude of the
created flyback pulses that average out to that value when see that kind of load. 
To use a switch to feed a load from the puffer cap I think the puffer cap should be kept at 2-3 times 120V at least
to get usable power level for the LEDs. 
I would appreciate if you would be so kind and check the DC voltage across the 150uF cap and the total current
going into the paralleled 5 LEDs.  This data would surely help seeing more clearly the light...  8)

Thanks,
Gyula
 
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 14, 2017, 07:15:00 PM
Hi Skywatcher,

Indeed very good lighting level in comparison to 4W input, thanks for the video too.  I guess this good impression
might come also from the good distributive nature of positioning the 5 LEDs to illuminate the most space in the room.

Because you use 120V LEDs, there is perhaps not much sense using a thyristor or any similar device to switch
energy out from your 150 uF puffer capacitor because the needed 120V is comparable to the amplitude of the
created flyback pulses that average out to that value when see that kind of load. 
To use a switch to feed a load from the puffer cap I think the puffer cap should be kept at 2-3 times 120V at least
to get usable power level for the LEDs. 
I would appreciate if you would be so kind and check the DC voltage across the 150uF cap and the total current
going into the paralleled 5 LEDs.  This data would surely help seeing more clearly the light...  8)

Thanks,
Gyula
   I took out one of my eight bulbs and measured 3.54 volts inside the lamp socket????  All lamps were lit during this test.  My room looks like  bright  daylight at 12 o'clock midnight with all lamps lit.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 14, 2017, 07:50:37 PM
Hi all, Hi gyulasun, i will do that later today.
Yes, that was the idea, i feel it is best to utilize the natural higher voltage from the flyback spikes, though i'm sure there are efficient methods to transform it down to lower voltages.
The particular ecosmart led bulbs i have, are able to light at lower voltages, like 40 volts at the capacitor.
Whereas, some of the newer bulbs i have need higher voltage, like 85 volts or higher.
I'm picking up some 40 watt equivalent philips led bulbs today to compare, non-dimmable.
I did check the voltage at the puffer capacitor yesterday, using the 5 older model, ecosmart bulbs, it was around 43 volts.
I will check the amperage later today.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 14, 2017, 08:18:50 PM
   I took out one of my eight bulbs and measured 3.54 volts inside the lamp socket? ???  All lamps were lit during
this test.  My room looks like  bright  daylight at 12 o'clock midnight with all lamps lit.

Hi magnetman,

That was a good idea to access directly to the paralleled lamps if that place seemed the easiest. 
I think the 3.54V DC (meter was in DC range, right?) you measured with DMM means that the switching
frequency of the thyristor may fool the meter.  This may also mean that if you set the meter to AC range,
the shown voltage would still be a false value, not only of the frequency but the possible sawtooth waveforms.

When you connect the capacitor C2 as I indicated, perhaps it would be better to start with say 4.7uF and test
higher and higher values to find an optimum.

To tell the truth, some filtering at the 5V input side may also be needed, I am not familiar with that USB device
you happen to use, nevertheless it is expected to give a relatively clean 5V DC output which then feeds your setup.

Thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 15, 2017, 04:20:39 AM
Hi all, Hi gyulasun, trying some different bulbs without any inner circuitry at all, gutted 4 Meijer led bulbs, 5.5 watt- 480 lumens.
With 4 hooked up in parallel, it is drawing 4.4 watts.
With this setup, the capacitor is at 96.8 volts and .03 amps are showing into the led bulbs.
This particular setup as is, is not as efficient as it could be, the neon across the transistor is brightly lighted when running, so energy is being wasted there.
Thinking a bigger capacity puffer capacitor may help absorb that energy and then into the led bulbs, have to try that yet.
I'm using gutted led bulbs now, because i can't find any like these older model ecosmart bulbs, seems most all the newer led bulbs, no matter brand, have circuitry inside that does not work well with this oscillator, blinks or is just not as efficient or bright.
I will try some things to make this setup more efficient, any ideas welcome.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 15, 2017, 08:55:16 PM
Hi all, Hi gyulasun, trying some different bulbs without any inner circuitry at all, gutted 4 Meijer led bulbs, 5.5 watt- 480 lumens.
With 4 hooked up in parallel, it is drawing 4.4 watts.
With this setup, the capacitor is at 96.8 volts and .03 amps are showing into the led bulbs.
This particular setup as is, is not as efficient as it could be, the neon across the transistor is brightly lighted when running, so energy is being wasted there.
Thinking a bigger capacity puffer capacitor may help absorb that energy and then into the led bulbs, have to try that yet.
I'm using gutted led bulbs now, because i can't find any like these older model ecosmart bulbs, seems most all the newer led bulbs, no matter brand, have circuitry inside that does not work well with this oscillator, blinks or is just not as efficient or bright.
I will try some things to make this setup more efficient, any ideas welcome.
peace love light
  I have found that with my setup the 8 bulbs burn as brightly using a 5 volt WALL USB ADAPTER as using 12 volts to power it.  This is as close to matching the USB adapter I have been using with no name on it.   https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0132X03ZS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It appears I have been using an Apple wall USB-- looks like this:    http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Apple-12W-USB-AC-Wall-Charger-Power-Adapter-for-iPhone-iPads-iPods-MD836LL-A/401292333396?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3D1c90c9992aee44898a5a0573a38ecfc6%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D321560573736#rwid
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 16, 2017, 05:47:35 AM
Hi magnetman, thanks for the link, i went and picked up one up at frys tonight.
I may need to alter the setup to get similar light output at the 5 volt input, will be working on it.
If it works out good, i can get a 12 volt car usb charger and still use my 12 volt tractor batteries if the power goes out.
Here is link to the usb charger.
http://www.frys.com/product/8892912?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG (http://www.frys.com/product/8892912?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 16, 2017, 06:21:13 AM
Ok, i just tested the new 5 volt-2.4 amp usb charger on the circuit as is.
It is drawing 150 milliamps at 5.25 volts or .788 watts, the brightness is ok, not at the level it was before, so will have to make some alterations to the setup.
One thing that is interesting, the neon is still lighting up fairly bright across the transistor collector/emitter, even using this 5 volt input.
I wonder if my diodes are ok, or since i have so many turns on my coil, maybe i am getting some high voltage induction from the on phase of the input pulse, or i need to use a full wave bridge.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 16, 2017, 01:00:27 PM
Hi all, Hi gyulasun, trying some different bulbs without any inner circuitry at all, gutted 4 Meijer led bulbs, 5.5 watt- 480 lumens.
With 4 hooked up in parallel, it is drawing 4.4 watts.
With this setup, the capacitor is at 96.8 volts and .03 amps are showing into the led bulbs.
This particular setup as is, is not as efficient as it could be, the neon across the transistor is brightly lighted
when running, so energy is being wasted there.
Thinking a bigger capacity puffer capacitor may help absorb that energy and then into the led bulbs,
have to try that yet. I'm using gutted led bulbs now, because i can't find any like these older model
ecosmart bulbs, seems most all the newer led bulbs, no matter brand, have circuitry inside that
does not work well with this oscillator, blinks or is just not as efficient or bright.
I will try some things to make this setup more efficient, any ideas welcome.
peace love light

Hi Skywatcher,

Thank you for doing the measurements. Regarding your wish for doing improvement in efficiency,
I think one possibility is to use a power  MOSFET for the switch (instead of the bipolar transistor
like 2SC5359) and control the MOSFET by a CMOS 555 timer in a circuit that has variable frequency and
independent duty cycle adjustment means.
This way you can have more flexibility to find certain "sweet points" with respect to the ferrite
core-coil combination etc.
Naturally, you can stay with the 2SC5359 or similar types and still use a CMOS timer to drive it
and find better operation points.
If interested, here is a good circuit with variable freq and duty cycle control:
http://overunity.com/8411/steorn-demo-live-stream-in-dublin-december-15th-10-am/msg243175/#msg243175 (http://overunity.com/8411/steorn-demo-live-stream-in-dublin-december-15th-10-am/msg243175/#msg243175)
( you can use the circuit to drive directly a bipolar transistor (and not a MOSFET as shown) with no change,
perhaps you may wish to use a 10 kOhm trimmer potmeter+ a series 1 kOhm instead of R1 to be able to
adjust the operating point of the bipolar transistor ).

Of course, when using this circuit, your present feedback coil to the base of the transistor should not be used
or alternatively you may do tests using the two windings in parallel in the collector (wire loss reduces)
or in series (coil L increases nearly 4 times) to check further duty cycle settings to reduce input power etc.

EDIT: if you find the ICM7555 hard to obtain (I think Mouser has it) than the pin compatible LMC555 or TLC555
types can also be used.  (They all work from as low as 2-3V up to 15-18 V supply voltages.)

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 16, 2017, 02:12:12 PM
Ok, i just tested the new 5 volt-2.4 amp usb charger on the circuit as is.
It is drawing 150 milliamps at 5.25 volts or .788 watts, the brightness is ok, not at the level it was before,
so will have to make some alterations to the setup.
One thing that is interesting, the neon is still lighting up fairly bright across the transistor collector/emitter,
even using this 5 volt input.
I wonder if my diodes are ok, or since i have so many turns on my coil, maybe i am getting some
high voltage induction from the on phase of the input pulse, or i need to use a full wave bridge.
peace love light

Yes, the neon when is lit (placed across collector-emitter) indicates the peak (voltage spike)
amplitudes are higher than the neon's trigger voltage hence it limits the spikes to that level. 
To utilize the higher than the neon trigger level spike amplitudes and steer them also to the puffer capacitor,
at least a 500-600V rated switching device is needed and then you can omit the neon.
IF your neon has a trigger level of say anywhere between 70-100 V, then you could try two of them in series
and see whether they are still lit. Their trigger levels add so the two of them are still able to protect your
present 230 V  rated transistor.
Of course you may use a full wave bridge made from the fast MUR or other fast switching diodes.
From the 5V input supply your base resistor (220 Ohm) may need another value, perhaps a 1 kOhm
trimmer potmeter with a series 100 Ohm would be good to use and vary (like in magnetman's schema).

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 16, 2017, 06:05:00 PM
Hi all, Hi gyula, thanks for the helpful information.
Yesterday, i tried a bigger capacitor, that did not turn off the neon, then tried a full wave bridge, that did not turn off neon either.
Your 2 neon in series worked, they are no longer lighting.
Only problem now is, the 4 gutted led bulbs brightness at the 5.25 volt input, is not sufficient.
I will have to make another bifilar coil using less turns.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 16, 2017, 06:16:37 PM
...
Only problem now is, the 4 gutted led bulbs brightness at the 5.25 volt input, is not sufficient.
I will have to make another bifilar coil using less turns.
...

Hi,

Well, there are many makes of the LED assemblies, and it is surely hard to find the ones having the most efficient inner drive circuits with or without.  Magnetman wrote about his experiences.
I assume you mean the gutted LED bulbs brightness was not as sufficient by "default" as the Eco types were?

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 16, 2017, 06:30:43 PM
Has anyone made my circuit EXACTLY as I have posted  here.  All was posted as OPEN SOURCE information.  Presently using a 5 volt USB wall adapter I show 5.7845 watts powering  8 seven watt 12 volt bulbs. That's 56 watts and all 8 bulbs burn brightly.   I would like to know if anyone is following my specs exactly as posted.   
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 17, 2017, 03:28:54 AM
Hi gyula, the gutted led bulbs i'm using now are fine, it's just when using the 5 volt input with this coil, is not sufficient.
So i made made a new coil earlier today, will be testing soon.
Hi magnetman, i do not have any 12 volt bulbs to test at the moment, i have a ton of 120 volt led bulbs though.
Plus the fact i could not get the SCR to fire properly, though since i do not know what frequency or anything about how yours is functioning, what are we to compare it with.
The oscillator itself should not matter, unless yours is operating with super efficiency.
So for now, I'm working on at least getting an oscillator running on the 5 volt input and getting good light output, i can always try the SCR again or get the one you are using, maybe that's what is needed.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 17, 2017, 05:33:15 AM
Hi gyula, the gutted led bulbs i'm using now are fine, it's just when using the 5 volt input with this coil, is not sufficient.
So i made made a new coil earlier today, will be testing soon.
Hi magnetman, i do not have any 12 volt bulbs to test at the moment, i have a ton of 120 volt led bulbs though.
Plus the fact i could not get the SCR to fire properly, though since i do not know what frequency or anything about how yours is functioning, what are we to compare it with.
The oscillator itself should not matter, unless yours is operating with super efficiency.
So for now, I'm working on at least getting an oscillator running on the 5 volt input and getting good light output, i can always try the SCR again or get the one you are using, maybe that's what is needed.
peace love light

 Hi Sky Watcher,
I tried many times to get things going using 120 volt led bulbs.  My basement is absolutely full of them.  Some worked but very dim some pulsed and others did not work at all. Next my attention shifted to the 12 volt led bulbs.
Some worked by spinning a magnet near the air core coil to start.  The 12 volt bulbs I am using now burn brightly without using a magnet spin. They are cheaply made but very inexpensive.  All have aluminum heat fins but run cold to the touch in my setup.  Its very hard to tell the brightness level powered from either 12 volts verses the 5 volt USB wall charger.  Both look as bright.  Made in warm white and bright white.  I like the bright white.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 17, 2017, 07:13:27 AM
Hi magnetman, ok, thanks for the information.
The results are coming along with the 5 volt input, i'm just removing coil winds until i find the brightness, power level that is best.
I'm using 4 identical, gutted led bulbs at the moment and it was very easy to convert them to just direct led drive, without the inner circuitry that is, took around 5 minutes per bulb.
If these bulbs don't work out, then i will look into getting the 12 volt bulbs.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 17, 2017, 08:35:46 AM
Hi all, ok, i was able to tweak the circuit to get equal brightness with the 5 volt usb charger.
Using 4.72 volts at .8 amps or 3.7 watts, the older model 6 watt ecosmart, non-modified led bulbs are brighter and drawing less power than the gutted led bulbs.
The older model ecosmart bulbs are somehow lower voltage bulbs, the puffer capacitor is sitting at around 46 volts, whereas with the gutted led bulbs, it sits around 96 volts.
So, this leads me to believe that the 12 volt led bulbs will probably work well with this type of flyback circuit, just as you are showing magnetman.
Will have to get at least 4 of those.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 17, 2017, 04:59:10 PM
Hi magnetman, ok, thanks for the information.
The results are coming along with the 5 volt input, i'm just removing coil winds until i find the brightness, power level that is best.
I'm using 4 identical, gutted led bulbs at the moment and it was very easy to convert them to just direct led drive, without the inner circuitry that is, took around 5 minutes per bulb.
If these bulbs don't work out, then i will look into getting the 12 volt bulbs.
peace love light
[/quote

You want to use these lamps and they are selling from a USA dealer.      http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-5-x-12V-High-Power-LED-Lamp-Bulb-E27-E26-7W-White-Light-Energy-Saving-/252019335458?hash=item3aad85e122:g:JMAAAOSwjVVVsILY
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 18, 2017, 01:15:17 AM
Hi magnetman, thanks for the information.
I ordered these warm white ones just now, i like the warmer color.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Super-Bright-High-Power-7W-12V-E27-Home-LED-Bulb-RV-Lights-Warm-White-E26-M-/322216141628?hash=item4b0594233c:g:jIoAAOSwimdXoxPM&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Super-Bright-High-Power-7W-12V-E27-Home-LED-Bulb-RV-Lights-Warm-White-E26-M-/322216141628?hash=item4b0594233c:g:jIoAAOSwimdXoxPM&vxp=mtr)
One thing i have to be sure not to do when i get these, is not have the capacitor charged when i connect the bulbs, that is without some type of scr switch in place, because last night i popped the last low voltage bulb i had been using for a night light.  :(
I wonder what the actual lumens rating is on these bulbs at 12 volts direct, because the data on the website seems like it was taken from different sources and contradictory.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Zephir on April 18, 2017, 04:32:20 AM
Quote from: magnetman
Presently using a 5 volt USB wall adapter I show 5.7845 watts powering  8 seven watt 12 volt bulbs. That's 56 watts and all 8 bulbs burn brightly... I spent 3 years experimenting with this circuit ...  I have at the least 200 pounds of experimental parts that I have to sell now. Some are brand new that were never used.

Did you try self-looped circuit already? It shouldn't be difficult with respect to performance given: instead of powering LED bulbs just try to power that USB wall adapter... ;-) BTW The neon bulb is sensitive to light - its ignition voltage strongly depends on illumination (photoeffect).

Quote from: magnetman
USB input to setup  5.03 volts at 1.15 amps. (5.7845 watts)  Output from setup capacitor to bulbs  5.93 volts at 1.03 amps  (6.1079 watts)  I checked this many times and came up to the same results. A plus .3234 watts unknown ?? power.

Such a result looks more realistic for me. The alleged surplus of 0.3234 watts will be probably measurement error of your wattmeter. These devices are calibrated for flat voltage source or harmonic sinus wave output - which your oscillator producing peaks trimmed with neon lamps definitely doesn't generate. Not to say, your wattmeter is designed for grid input - its precision will go down at low voltages.

Quote from: magnetman
Has anyone made my circuit EXACTLY as I have posted  here? All was posted as OPEN SOURCE information.

I do appreciate your selflessness very much! But I don't understand the remark "DIAMETRIC RING MAGNET" in your diagram. Where this magnet should be located?
The main coil mentioned at your description is air core one. And I don't understand the meaning "INNER COIL / OUTER COIL" at your diagram.
I redrew your scheme for reference - please see bellow. Thank you for your explanation in advance!
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 18, 2017, 05:08:48 AM
Hi magnetman, thanks for the information.
I ordered these warm white ones just now, i like the warmer color.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Super-Bright-High-Power-7W-12V-E27-Home-LED-Bulb-RV-Lights-Warm-White-E26-M-/322216141628?hash=item4b0594233c:g:jIoAAOSwimdXoxPM&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-Super-Bright-High-Power-7W-12V-E27-Home-LED-Bulb-RV-Lights-Warm-White-E26-M-/322216141628?hash=item4b0594233c:g:jIoAAOSwimdXoxPM&vxp=mtr)
One thing i have to be sure not to do when i get these, is not have the capacitor charged when i connect the bulbs, that is without some type of scr switch in place, because last night i popped the last low voltage bulb i had been using for a night light.  :(
I wonder what the actual lumens rating is on these bulbs at 12 volts direct, because the data on the website seems like it was taken from different sources and contradictory.
peace love light
 

 Hi Sky Watcher,
I would measure the voltage directly on the insides of the powered empty bulb sockets before installing the bulbs to be sure there won't be a burnout after the bulbs are installed.   If you can fill a room with light continuously using 5 + watts (8 lit 7 watt bulbs) that's good enough for me.  Otherwise you would have to invest in a lux meter and test the brightness which by the way will decay if you use a battery as a power source.   The voltage must be constant that's why I am using the LARGER 5 volt USB wall adapter as power.
Small units have thermal shutdown problems and cutoff quickly.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 18, 2017, 07:47:14 AM
Hi all, Hi magnetman, ok thanks for the tip.
Yes, checking voltage at bulb bases would be the best way to prevent them going poof.
Have you blown any bulbs yet by making this same mistake i did, 3 times already.
I was researching the bulbs you are using and ones i will be getting and apparently, one guy that sells them, says the 7 watt version is around 600 lumens when using direct 12 volt battery power.
And he does mention the normal dc power will degrade them faster.
The circuits we are using, they should last longer because the lack of heat.
What kind of heat are you feeling on yours, have you run them long enough to see if they get warm.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 18, 2017, 05:28:36 PM
...
Yes, checking voltage at bulb bases would be the best way to prevent them going poof.
Have you blown any bulbs yet by making this same mistake i did, 3 times already.
...

Hi,

Yes, checking the voltage level at bulb bases is very good to 'prevent them going puf' but
only in case you feed the LEDs directly from your puffer capacitor. If you have a working
switching device like a thyristor magnetman uses to feed the bulbs from the puffer capacitor,
then your meter may get fooled.  This is because the thyristor choppes up the DC voltage coming
from the puffer capacitor (C1 in his schematic) and very likely a sawtooth-like wave shape could be
measured across the bulbs by a scope in this case.  Magnetman reported he measured
3.54 V DC across the 12 V lamps with a DMM, see this:

   I took out one of my eight bulbs and measured 3.54 volts inside the lamp socket? ???   All lamps
were lit during this test.  My room looks like  bright  daylight at 12 o'clock midnight with all lamps lit.

 
Maybe it is a bad idea to connect a second capacitor, C2 across the LEDs to smooth out the sawtooth
waves from his present operation point of view and the brightness or input power draw changes
too much, I do not know.  This should be tested and decide accordingly. I suggested the use of
capacitor C2 to filter the chopped-up waveform and make it DMM 'friendly',
see my post here: http://overunity.com/17200/3-7-volt-battery-powers-56-watts/msg504190/#msg504190

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 18, 2017, 08:19:10 PM
Hi all, Hi magnetman, ok thanks for the tip.
Yes, checking voltage at bulb bases would be the best way to prevent them going poof.
Have you blown any bulbs yet by making this same mistake i did, 3 times already.
I was researching the bulbs you are using and ones i will be getting and apparently, one guy that sells them, says the 7 watt version is around 600 lumens when using direct 12 volt battery power.
And he does mention the normal dc power will degrade them faster.
The circuits we are using, they should last longer because the lack of heat.
What kind of heat are you feeling on yours, have you run them long enough to see if they get warm.
peace love light
  After putting one bulb in a refrigerator for a while I  test ran the bulb for 10 mjnutes using the large USB  power source.  The bulb was cold to the touch. I never blew a 120 volt led but did get one of my CORN BULBS to light up on its own.  Nothing else however would work.  That's when I switched to 12 then 5 volts and things got  much better.   http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/BTW69-1200N/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujfF8w4qfSV3KjM7tz3jvhm3XoAXzHXxd9%2fzgbqzI5K1A%3d%3d
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: URFA on April 18, 2017, 08:32:07 PM
Quote
I do appreciate your selflessness very much! But I don't understand the remark "DIAMETRIC RING MAGNET" in your diagram. Where this magnet should be located?

I think this is the answer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krQrhVmt0UQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri32jT5UQ5c

https://www.youtube.com/user/64298/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 18, 2017, 09:06:41 PM
I think this is the answer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krQrhVmt0UQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri32jT5UQ5c

https://www.youtube.com/user/64298/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0

A diametric magnet can be a ring magnet and polarities are found on the rounded sides rather than the flat ends.  I use ring magnets as its easy to spin them from the center point hole.    K&J Magnetics and Magnets 4 less has them in different sizes and grades.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 18, 2017, 09:22:29 PM
Did you try self-looped circuit already? It shouldn't be difficult with respect to performance given: instead of powering LED bulbs just try to power that USB wall adapter... ;-) BTW The neon bulb is sensitive to light - its ignition voltage strongly depends on illumination (photoeffect).

Such a result looks more realistic for me. The alleged surplus of 0.3234 watts will be probably measurement error of your wattmeter. These devices are calibrated for flat voltage source or harmonic sinus wave output - which your oscillator producing peaks trimmed with neon lamps definitely doesn't generate. Not to say, your wattmeter is designed for grid input - its precision will go down at low voltages.

I do appreciate your selflessness very much! But I don't understand the remark "DIAMETRIC RING MAGNET" in your diagram. Where this magnet should be located?
The main coil mentioned at your description is air core one. And I don't understand the meaning "INNER COIL / OUTER COIL" at your diagram.
I redrew your scheme for reference - please see bellow. Thank you for your explanation in advance!
  The DIAMETRIC RING MAGNET has polarities on its sides not the flat ends.  It should be placed directly over the air core coil and spun with a finger to start it spinning continuously with the circuit powered.
When you wind a air coil with two separate strands of wire you start your wind from the core (INNER) and wind you way outwards to the (OUTER) outside. Hope that clears things up.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Naija on April 18, 2017, 11:28:50 PM
Hi all, this is not exactly like magnetmans setup, though has practical use value.
It is essentially a joule thief oscillator type, using a ferrite TV flyback c-core.
It is using 4 watts of input power from a 12 volt tractor battery.
Here is short video showing lighting level. 5 led bulbs are lighted, 2 are together towards the back.
https://youtu.be/C3vl1w62aaU (https://youtu.be/C3vl1w62aaU)
peace love light


Hello Skywatcher123,

I actually love the simplicity of your setup as well as your video. Thanks very much. I would like to replicate your design but first could you please guide me through the following first steps:

Is there an alternative for the ferrite flyback core? Am thinking of using bi-filiar air coil with a minimum of 100mm internal diameter. What specifications of the magnet wire would you recommend? Length, resistance, size of wire e.t.c. which would work efficiently in place of the ferrite flyback core?
Secondly, Would your setup as it is support 220V LED lamps or are their any modifications that must be made on the components?

Thanks in earnest anticipation for your reply

Naija
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Zephir on April 19, 2017, 02:01:21 AM
Hello, magnetman

and thank You for your reply, albeit it sounds quite intriguing for me..:) Your power enhancer behaves a bit like the Bedini motor or something similar. According to this video (https://youtu.be/Ri32jT5UQ5c?t=41) the brightness of LED bulbs and voltage at input doesn't change, once you stop the magnet, but the current consumption of your device increases from 0.94 to 1.28 A or so. Which meaning the magnet rotation actually has under such a situation?

Thank You for Your support!
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 19, 2017, 05:36:48 AM
Hello, magnetman

and thank You for your reply, albeit it sounds quite intriguing for me..:) Your power enhancer behaves a bit like the Bedini motor or something similar. According to this video (https://youtu.be/Ri32jT5UQ5c?t=41) the brightness of LED bulbs and voltage at input doesn't change, once you stop the magnet, but the current consumption of your device increases from 0.94 to 1.28 A or so. Which meaning the magnet rotation actually has under such a situation?

Thank You for Your support!
  I have made many changes to simplify the setup since 'this video' was made. No need for hi voltage to power it.  Now I only use  5 volts and a little over 1 amp. The magnet rotation draws more current but is not needed once the bulbs in this case are lit. Then the magnet can be stopped.  The newer bulbs I am using now don't require a magnet or magnet spin at all.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 20, 2017, 01:18:12 AM
Hi all, Hi magnetman, i ordered some more led bulbs to be sure i have extra just in case, plus i wanted to have the same amount of bulbs you are using.
Here is the link.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252338553207?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITI (http://www.ebay.com/itm/252338553207?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITI)

peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 20, 2017, 04:26:56 AM
Hi naija, i just noticed your reply, thanks for the kind words.
It works fine with an air core, i would use 24 awg. magnet wire or the telephone wire like magnetman, if you can't get any magnet wire.
I would also use the brooks coil geometry for an air core coil, i didn't, because i wound it for the option to slide in my ferrite c-core.
The components shown or equivalent should be fine, since the capacitor shown has high enough voltage rating and those 220 volt led bulbs will be using less amperage.
The only question is, will the led bulbs you use work properly with the circuit, if not, you may need to remove the inner circuitry and just drive the leds directly with the diode/capacitor output.
I plan to use the 12 volt led bulbs i should be getting in mail soon and also plan to more closely build the magnetman circuit.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 20, 2017, 06:48:04 PM
Hi naija, i just noticed your reply, thanks for the kind words.
It works fine with an air core, i would use 24 awg. magnet wire or the telephone wire like magnetman, if you can't get any magnet wire.
I would also use the brooks coil geometry for an air core coil, i didn't, because i wound it for the option to slide in my ferrite c-core.
The components shown or equivalent should be fine, since the capacitor shown has high enough voltage rating and those 220 volt led bulbs will be using less amperage.
The only question is, will the led bulbs you use work properly with the circuit, if not, you may need to remove the inner circuitry and just drive the leds directly with the diode/capacitor output.
I plan to use the 12 volt led bulbs i should be getting in mail soon and also plan to more closely build the magnetman circuit.
peace love light
I just got the very large USB power adapter in and tried it.    5.08 volts shows at its output but strangely  the output across the circuit capacitor C1 shows 1.55 volts and climbing with all 8 bulbs burning very  brightly.  The USB  adapter is cold to the touch. (Orange LUMSING WITH 2 USB PORTS)   I am happy.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0132X03ZS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here is what the spool and 1000 ft. of cross connect 2 strand wire looks like. Must cut down to 740 ft. size.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Roll-of-General-Wire-cross-connect-2-C-24AWG-1000-wire/252875098432?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3D281358708da24f73a9348a5ceead02c8%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D172624728257

Want B7A neon bulbs?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Box-of-10-Neon-Bulb-NE45-B7A-Indicator-105-to-125-Volts-AC-DC-/162458540245?hash=item25d34898d5:g:XaQAAOSwA29Y5Cd9

Want 80 ohm automobile relay?  Use pins 85/86 for direct coil contact.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Herko-Bosch-Style-4-PIN-Blade-Post-Relays-SPST-80-Ohm-NO-40A-14VDC-NC-30A-14VDC-/360919592949?hash=item54087beff5:g:mHIAAOSwmLlYAA9T&vxp=mtr
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 21, 2017, 08:13:28 AM
Added another bulb.  63 watts now powered by 5 volt  USB adapter. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYfbgapZYhc
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Zephir on April 21, 2017, 09:16:42 AM
Hi Magnetman, this is all very impressive at the first look - but could you please measure the actual current drawn from your USB adapter with digital multimeter? Normal USB port allows only 1 A so that no more than 5 watts should appear at its output. But the cheap Chinese powerbanks lack the overload protection, so that the actual current can be much higher. Also the nominal power load of your LEDS (7 watts each) may not correspond their actual load at all. Tomorrow I'll try to complete more professional documentation of your project from this forum - as there is still lotta white spots in my understanding of your circuit. 

For example it's not clear for me, how the air core coil gets actually wired into your circuit. Do you use both colored wires in parallel?
Thank You indeed for your reply in advance.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Naija on April 21, 2017, 04:08:19 PM
Hi naija, i just noticed your reply, thanks for the kind words.
It works fine with an air core, i would use 24 awg. magnet wire or the telephone wire like magnetman, if you can't get any magnet wire.
I would also use the brooks coil geometry for an air core coil, i didn't, because i wound it for the option to slide in my ferrite c-core.
The components shown or equivalent should be fine, since the capacitor shown has high enough voltage rating and those 220 volt led bulbs will be using less amperage.
The only question is, will the led bulbs you use work properly with the circuit, if not, you may need to remove the inner circuitry and just drive the leds directly with the diode/capacitor output.
I plan to use the 12 volt led bulbs i should be getting in mail soon and also plan to more closely build the magnetman circuit.
peace love light

Thanks Skywatcher for the clarifications.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Naija on April 21, 2017, 04:14:01 PM
Added another bulb.  63 watts now powered by 5 volt  USB adapter. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYfbgapZYhc

Hi Magnetman,

Your work is fast becoming an attention grabber, 63W of light power from probably a little more than 5W of dc power! Am starting to collate the materials needed to replicate your work EXACTLY. Thanks for sharing this idea. While sourcing the materials for this, I came across two types of 1k 0.5w potentiometer, one has a rated working voltage of 50V while the other has rated maximum voltage of 500V; which of these will you recommend?

Please may I know if your circuit can also run a 12 vdc fan of say 30 - 60W capacity at full power?

Thanks in earnest anticipation of your response

Naija
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 21, 2017, 09:14:08 PM
Hi Magnetman,

Your work is fast becoming an attention grabber, 63W of light power from probably a little more than 5W of dc power! Am starting to collate the materials needed to replicate your work EXACTLY. Thanks for sharing this idea. While sourcing the materials for this, I came across two types of 1k 0.5w potentiometer, one has a rated working voltage of 50V while the other has rated maximum voltage of 500V; which of these will you recommend?

Please may I know if your circuit can also run a 12 vdc fan of say 30 - 60W capacity at full power?

Thanks in earnest anticipation of your response

Naija
   Hi Naija,
Be sure the pot is a linear taper pot. Not audio taper.   Here is what I used:  This particular dealer sells both the 1K  and 10 k pots.  In your case either will work if its linear taper.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-B10K-10K-OHM-Linear-Taper-Rotary-Potentiometers-10KB-POT-USA-SELLER-/321751755624?hash=item4ae9e62b68:g:O-0AAOSwhwdVT9td

I gave up exploring what the setup will do with 12 volts after using the 5 volt wall type USB  adapter. Currently I am powering  nine-- seven watt -- 12 volt led bulbs totals 63 watts.  All lamps are brightly lit for some strange reason so I guess I will push on and see how many more can be lit the same way.  My Lumsing USB wall power adapter is rated at 5 volts at 3.4 amps.  THATS  17 WATTS DRIVING 63 WATTS??  CRAZY!!   The USB power adapter runs cold to the touch after long use!  Should I call this a power assister circuit??  Open for a good name.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Naija on April 21, 2017, 09:55:34 PM
Should I call this a power assister circuit??  Open for a good name.

Thanks very much man; whatever you choose to call this circuit, just make sure it's got your name on it! This invention can immortalize you!
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 22, 2017, 01:27:34 AM
Thanks very much man; whatever you choose to call this circuit, just make sure it's got your name on it! This invention can immortalize you!
Just today using only my LUMSING  5 volt USB 17 watt wall adapter I ran a few tests using the 9 seven watt 12 volt led bulbs once more.  During this test ALL bulbs burned brightly.  I found 5.19 volts/1.26 amps at the USB charger output. All bulbs lit.    I found 3.30 volts/1.26 amps across the C1 capacitor.  Once again this is with all bulbs lit.  So we have 6.5394 watts feeding this circuit- that's the output of the 17 watt USB wall adapter.  No wonder the adapter feels cold to the touch.   4.158 watts across the C1 shows the setup is using 2.3814 watts to power itself.  THE REAL QUESTION TO ASK IS HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT CLOSE TO 63 WATTS ARE NEEDED  TO POWER THE BULBS?    4 TO 6+ WATTS SHOULD NOT DO THIS??

I hope everyone gets involved with this and it goes viral.  I only want to be noted as the person that used
tidbits of information from others and after adding my own thoughts I came up with this"" HYBRID"" circuit. I hope it works out for all mankind.  That's why I open sourced all info. 
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 22, 2017, 01:29:44 AM

....
I gave up exploring what the setup will do with 12 volts after using the 5 volt wall type USB  adapter. Currently I am powering  nine-- seven watt -- 12 volt led bulbs totals 63 watts.  All lamps are brightly lit for some strange reason so I guess I will push on and see how many more can be lit the same way.  My Lumsing USB wall power adapter is rated at 5 volts at 3.4 amps.  THATS  17 WATTS DRIVING 63 WATTS??  CRAZY!!   The USB power adapter runs cold to the touch after long use!  Should I call this a power assister circuit??  Open for a good name.

Dear magnetman,

Indeed it sounds crazy (17W driving 63W) because you have not managed to measure the actual power drawn by the 9 LED bulbs.  As I wrote earlier, the voltage and current waveforms can be saw tooth shaped as the thyristor switch periodically discharges the C1 puffer capacitor and this waveform cannot be measured correctly by normal DMMs. 
Remember you reported 3.8V or so DC voltage measured inside one of a LED socket while the other LEDs were nicely lit  i.e. 3.8V or so voltage amplitude could not drive any such LED with nice brightness. 
This is why I tried to suggest using a second filter capacitor, C2 to filter and smooth the saw tooth voltage to be more DC like so that both the current and voltage values driving the LEDs could better be measured by a DMM once there is no oscilloscope available for you. 

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 22, 2017, 01:35:50 AM
Hi magnetman,

you wrote:  "4.158 watts across the C1 shows the setup is using 2.3814 watts to power itself. "

it is okay that there is typo, it is 4.158 Volt across C1 what you measured by your DC voltmeter right?

This is what am saying: the saw tooth like waveform across C1 may fool the DC meter, very possible. 

Addition:  If I recall correctly, you already wrote somewhere that if you try to drive a 12V LED bulb from say the 5V USB device, it remains fully dark?  i.e. not working

Gyula

Just today using only my LUMSING  5 volt USB 17 watt wall adapter I ran a few tests using the 9 seven watt 12 volt led bulbs once more.  During this test ALL bulbs burned brightly.  I found 5.19 volts/1.26 amps at the USB charger output. All bulbs lit.    I found 3.30 volts/1.26 amps across the C1 capacitor.  Once again this is with all bulbs lit.  So we have 6.5394 watts feeding this circuit- that's the output of the 17 watt USB wall adapter.  No wonder the adapter feels cold to the touch.   4.158 watts across the C1 shows the setup is using 2.3814 watts to power itself.  THE REAL QUESTION TO ASK IS HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT CLOSE TO 63 WATTS ARE NEEDED  TO POWER THE BULBS?    4 TO 6+ WATTS SHOULD NOT DO THIS??

I hope everyone gets involved with this and it goes viral.  I only want to be noted as the person that used
tidbits of information from others and after adding my own thoughts I came up with this"" HYBRID"" circuit. I hope it works out for all mankind.  That's why I open sourced all info.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 22, 2017, 01:50:22 AM
Hi magnetman,

you wrote:  "4.158 watts across the C1 shows the setup is using 2.3814 watts to power itself. "

it is okay that there is typo, it is 4.158 Volt across C1 what you measured by your DC voltmeter right?

This is what am saying: the saw tooth like waveform across C1 may fool the DC meter, very possible.

Gyula
3.30 volts x 1.26 amps = 4.158 watts across the C1 cap    6.5394 watts across the output of the USB adapter.  6.5394 - 4.158 = 2.3814  watts consumed by setup.  All measured by true RMS multi meter.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 22, 2017, 02:01:24 AM
3.30 volts x 1.26 amps = 4.158 watts across the C1 cap    6.5394 watts across the output of the USB adapter.  6.5394 - 4.158 = 2.3814  watts consumed by setup.  All measured by true RMS multi meter.

Okay, I understand now how you calculated the 4.158 W across the C1 capacitor.

However, I disagree with the way you attempted to calculate the power drawn from C1 because the 1.26 A is the input from the 5V USB device.  You would have to measure the current at say its negative leg where it connects to the cathode (K) of the thyristor, at that point the ampermeter could be inserted and see the rms current. 
A question: the 3.3 V across C1 is a DC value or  rms AC value?

Thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Naija on April 22, 2017, 01:34:25 PM
We are missing the point of magnetman's invention. His work is NOT originally meant to be a normal dc bulb operation running on batteries (if this were so, there would not be the need for his circuit that took him 3 years to perfect). Okay, let us assume that his measurements are dead wrong and that the bulbs are actually drawing the required 63W; what explanation could be given to his testament that the 17W power pack powering the 63W of load has remained cold to touch after CONTINUOUS use? ???

Magnetman might not have all the equipment to professionally demonstrate his work and this is where those who do can come in. He has been very honest thus far, revealing all it takes to replicate his work. I think it is better to FIRST replicate his work and in doing this, we will find answers to our criticisms. In this respect, I appreciate Skywatchers effort to FIRST replicate this work. That is the sure way to go.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Naija on April 22, 2017, 02:55:47 PM
I hope everyone gets involved with this and it goes viral.  I only want to be noted as the person that used
tidbits of information from others and after adding my own thoughts I came up with this"" HYBRID"" circuit. I hope it works out for all mankind.  That's why I open sourced all info.

This is verily your work and you rightly deserve the sole credit of it. Even the well-respected Tesla started out with tidbits of information from others!
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 22, 2017, 03:01:52 PM
Dear Naija,

I am sorry if I seem to be naysayer, this is not my intention.  All I am saying is: we do not know
yet how much power actually goes into the paralleled 8 LED bulbs. We know correctly the input power.

A pulsed LED which is the case in this setup responds with increased brightness to peak currents
and this can be a misleading factor in estimating brightness by eye.  This property is okay and known for a LED
but the actual average or real power draw by the 8 LEDs is what should count when we claim a low input
and a higher than that output. 
I also appreciate Skywatcher's efforts and readyness for doing the measurements. Unfortunately he could not
replicate the exact setup magnetman built because he has not had the same 12V DC LED types but 120V ones,
and he has not used the switching thyristor yet, see here:
http://overunity.com/17200/3-7-volt-battery-powers-56-watts/msg504081/#msg504081  and
his measurement: http://overunity.com/17200/3-7-volt-battery-powers-56-watts/msg504293/#msg504293   
I cannot locate the same type of LEDs magnetman uses at other places than what he gave an ebay link and
the seller does not send those lamps to my country.
 
Anyway, I wish this setup magnetman has genuinely shared should fulfill everyones hopes.

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 22, 2017, 06:00:11 PM
Dear Naija,

I am sorry if I seem to be naysayer, this is not my intention.  All I am saying is: we do not know
yet how much power actually goes into the paralleled 8 LED bulbs. We know correctly the input power.

A pulsed LED which is the case in this setup responds with increased brightness to peak currents
and this can be a misleading factor in estimating brightness by eye.  This property is okay and known for a LED
but the actual average or real power draw by the 8 LEDs is what should count when we claim a low input
and a higher than that output. 
I also appreciate Skywatcher's efforts and readyness for doing the measurements. Unfortunately he could not
replicate the exact setup magnetman built because he has not had the same 12V DC LED types but 120V ones,
and he has not used the switching thyristor yet, see here:
http://overunity.com/17200/3-7-volt-battery-powers-56-watts/msg504081/#msg504081  and
his measurement: http://overunity.com/17200/3-7-volt-battery-powers-56-watts/msg504293/#msg504293   
I cannot locate the same type of LEDs magnetman uses at other places than what he gave an ebay link and
the seller does not send those lamps to my country.
 
Anyway, I wish this setup magnetman has genuinely shared should fulfill everyones hopes.

Gyula
  Hi All,

I appreciate every ones input and those building this device. Always open for ideas. Will help everyone
that needs questions answered.

My best test equipment consists of two very accurate true RMS multi meters. I don't own a scope.  I don't know how far this may go.  Whoever might patent something like it later might keep me in mind and give something to a good charity. My main goal all along was to create a device that would enrich many lives without it being used with evil intent.  I tried to make it as simple as it gets and use older less expensive components.  The newer LED bulbs being the exception as well as the USB adapter. Also don't need the magnet now.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Zephir on April 22, 2017, 06:08:16 PM
Quote
best test equipment consists of two very accurate true RMS multi meters. I don't own a scope
Hi magnetman, I think you don't need any scope and I even think, that the usage of scope in overunity measurements is misleading, because its interpretation depends on power factor and many other things, which are difficult to follow. Once someone tells me, that he observed overunity with scope, then I'm getting suspicious automatically.

So if you measure the input/output current and voltage with reliable multimeter, then it's completely OK - but you should measure the DC current only, because the multimeters exhibit artifacts during measuring inharmonic signals. It requires to place large electrolytic capacitor in parallel to you multimeter for to measure the stable, sufficiently averaged signal. If you measure the AC signal, your should rectify with diode bridge first. If your overunity effect is robust, it should tolerate the voltage drop at diodes. Even the high quality RMS powermeters don't work well with overunity circuits, because they're calibrated to harmonic frequency in grid. And they also don't measure well too low voltages/currents outside the range of common grid circuits.

It's great you managed to eliminate magnets from your arrangement, as I always considered its usage a bit inconvenient and illogical with respect to your construction. If the overunity effect emerges inside the air coreless coil, then no magnet should be actually necessary.

Albert Einstein: “Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler.”
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 22, 2017, 06:38:15 PM
Hi magnetman, I think you don't need any scope and I even think, that the usage of scope in overunity measurements is misleading, because its interpretation depends on power factor and many other things, which are difficult to follow. Once someone tells me, that he observed overunity with scope, then I'm getting suspicious automatically.

So if you measure the input/output current and voltage with reliable multimeter, then it's completely OK - but you should measure the DC current only, because the multimeters exhibit artifacts during measuring inharmonic signals. It requires to place large electrolytic capacitor in parallel to you multimeter for to measure the stable, sufficiently averaged signal. If you measure the AC signal, your should rectify with diode bridge first. If your overunity effect is robust, it should tolerate the voltage drop at diodes. Even the high quality RMS powermeters don't work well with overunity circuits, because they're calibrated to harmonic frequency in grid. And they also don't measure well too low voltages/currents outside the range of common grid circuits.

It's great you managed to eliminate magnets from your arrangement, as I always considered its usage a bit inconvenient and illogical with respect to your construction. If the overunity effect emerges inside the air coreless coil, then no magnet should be actually necessary.

Albert Einstein: “Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler.”
I have been very careful and all my measurements have been DC voltage and current.  No AC.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Zephir on April 22, 2017, 08:41:24 PM
OK, so why not to attempt for creation of fully autonomous self-looped selfrunner with using of cheap inverters like these ones (http://www.banggood.com/search/inverter.html)? They come in various sizes: from simple circuit modules over adapters to boxed devices. If you're able to power 60 watts with few watts from USB adapter, what prohibits you to include it into circuit and to power this adapter through inverter too? Your patient wife or powermeter can be still cheated with character of input signal, but the inverter cannot..;-)

And why not to finally replace the USB adapter with output of transformer, which you would power with your circuit instead of LEDs? You would avoid the redundant circuits, which just waste an energy.  Once you demonstrate self-looped device freely running at the table without any battery in the circuit, I can assure that you'll become replicated immediately.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 22, 2017, 10:13:17 PM
Hi all, i can tell you this, i will be replicating the main principles of the magnet man circuit shown here.
I will be using a somewhat different main oscillator, though i think the good action happens after that.
So while i'm waiting for the 12 volt led bulbs to arrive, i tried the SCR with a 12 volt incandescent yard bulb, it's a 4 watt bulb.
I think this green neon from the shack, is not functioning the same as magnetmans b7a neon.
With the bulb load, it does allow the neon to light up and the capacitor rises to well over 200 volts if it's on long enough, however, it still is not triggering the SCR to turn on.
So i shorted the anode to the gate with a screw driver and then yes, it turned on and poof, there goes my bulb.
So, i am curious now, if i do get this SCR to function properly.
Is it because magnetman has so many led bulbs in parallel, that the 70 or more volts dumped into them from the capacitor at a certain frequency, is enough load to prevent that high voltage from popping any of the led bulbs.
I have no doubt, with proper parts, i can get the SCR to fire, i'm just concerned with popping new led bulbs.
Any insight is appreciated.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 22, 2017, 10:14:42 PM
I already suggested looping to magnetman about 3 weeks ago:

http://overunity.com/17200/3-7-volt-battery-powers-56-watts/msg502788/#msg502788

Gyula 
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 23, 2017, 01:31:36 AM
I already suggested looping to magnetman about 3 weeks ago:

http://overunity.com/17200/3-7-volt-battery-powers-56-watts/msg502788/#msg502788

Gyula

During the 3 years building up to what is now presently working I destroyed many transistors, burned up many neons and smoked a new watt meter.  So I don't want to put in jeopardy the working setup by doing more experiments and ruin it. Its been working real well for me now running cold with no heating problems or glowing neons.  I trust those building what I have illustrated will run further tests and see if they can take it further than I.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 23, 2017, 03:55:32 AM
Hi all, hi magnetman, i received the order with the 10 led bulbs, which are 7 watt bulbs, i noticed one so far is not working, so i decided to open it up and see what's inside and what the problem is.
The wire came loose from the base of the bulb, easy fix.
Now this is very interesting, it looks like it might be some kind of boost circuit inside, to take the 12 volts and transform it probably to 120 volts.
It may be the same led board they use for 120 volt bulbs.
Notice the chip under the capacitor and the inductor and full wave bridge.
I tried the bulb on my 12 volt battery and it powers the bulb no matter the polarity, from the battery.
When powering direct from my 12 volt tractor battery, the bulb draws .53 amps at 12.29 volts or 6.5 watts and is very bright.
I tested 4 bulbs in parallel with my circuit as it is and it draws .5 amps at 4.93 volts or 2.47 watts, using the 5 volt-2.4 amp, usb power supply.
The bulbs are not very bright, though with some tweaking, i'm sure i can bring them to good brightness.
Though, considering these bulbs have a boost circuit inside, magnetmans SCR dumping method may be the way to go, we shall see.
peace love light

Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 23, 2017, 04:23:45 AM
Update: i just tested one of the 12 volt led bulbs and it lights using a directly driven single lithium ion cell and draws .55 amps at 3.84 volts or 2.1 watts and brightness is pretty good.
peace love light

Edit: Also tested using the usb power supply and with the 4 parallel led bulbs driven directly from the usb supply, it draws 1.34 amps at 4.14 volts or 5.55 watts and brightness is very good.
Whole room is lighted nicely, though i have no doubt magnetmans setup does better.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: broli on April 23, 2017, 03:08:06 PM
Build a few replicas and send them out to a few trusted people with good equipment. The community will cover all the costs.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 23, 2017, 06:02:32 PM
Update: i just tested one of the 12 volt led bulbs and it lights using a directly driven single lithium ion cell and draws .55 amps at 3.84 volts or 2.1 watts and brightness is pretty good.
peace love light

Edit: Also tested using the usb power supply and with the 4 parallel led bulbs driven directly from the usb supply, it draws 1.34 amps at 4.14 volts or 5.55 watts and brightness is very good.
Whole room is lighted nicely, though i have no doubt magnetmans setup does better.

Hi SkyWatcher,
When you find time connect 9 of your bulbs in parallel and using your USB wall adapter ONLY as a power source find the USB DC output voltage and current it takes to light your bulbs.

I have found using my wall type USB adapter powering the ""NINE"" bulbs ""THROUGH THE SETUP"" there is 3.30 DC volts across the C1 Capacitor at 1.26 DC amps.  Totals 4.158 watts.  I Would love to see what difference there is between a straight shot to your USB adapter versus a shot through my USB adapter AND SETUP terminating across the C1 capacitor.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 23, 2017, 06:04:55 PM
Hi all, so what i'm saying in my previous post is, based upon magnetmans circuit, 5 volts input is direct driving his led bulbs, through his full wave bridge in his circuit and also because of the boost circuitry inside the bulb.
Though i would assume his capacitor dumping circuit may also be contributing power to the bulbs, which may explain why the light output is so smooth and not blinking, because the capacitor dump pulses are riding on top of the output from the directly driven input
I tried two nimh cells in series for around 2.56 volts and that voltage does not light up the led bulbs, directly driven, though 3 of those cells in series does.
I also tried driving the led board direct, which means bypassing the led bulbs driver circuitry and with a 12 volt battery and it does not light up, it seems it is a board rated for 120 volts.
Hi broli, not sure who you are speaking to.
peace love light

Edit: just noticed your post magnetman, the voltage i gave for the 4 bulbs directly off usb, was directly at output of usb, not at the capacitor.
I just connected the capacitor output from my circuit, directly to the led board and the capacitor is showing 21 volts using the 5 volt usb input, at good brightness.
This tells me, the led board is not rated for 120 volts.
The board has 14 leds and if it is like other boards i see online, it may have 2 rows of 7 leds in series and these are both in parallel.
And if each led uses 3 volts or so to turn on, then 21 volts makes sense.
It is drawing .52 amps at 4.9 volts or 2.55 watts from usb supply.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 23, 2017, 07:08:25 PM
Hi all, so what i'm saying in my previous post is, based upon magnetmans circuit, 5 volts input is direct driving his led bulbs, through his full wave bridge in his circuit and also because of the boost circuitry inside the bulb.
Though i would assume his capacitor dumping circuit may also be contributing power to the bulbs, which may explain why the light output is so smooth and not blinking, because the capacitor dump pulses are riding on top of the output from the directly driven input
I tried two nimh cells in series for around 2.56 volts and that voltage does not light up the led bulbs, directly driven, though 3 of those cells in series does.
I also tried driving the led board direct, which means bypassing the led bulbs driver circuitry and with a 12 volt battery and it does not light up, it seems it is a board rated for 120 volts.
Hi broli, not sure who you are speaking to.
peace love light

Just moments ago I tried the same experiment again.  I focused on the voltage/current across the C1 capacitor with the setup powered only by my USB 5 volt 17 watt wall adapter.   I got 2.60 volts/1.15 amps totaling 2.99 watts????????  This time I did this many times.  Even checking with my other multi meter.  Once again all 9 seven watt led bulbs lit up brightly???  The USB ran cold to the touch.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 23, 2017, 08:05:51 PM
Hi magnetman, thanks for sharing your information.
At the moment, i only have 6 receptacles for led bulbs, when i get more i will do the direct test from usb supply.
I was looking at your circuit drawing again and since we have determined the led bulbs are being lighted directly by the 5 volt input.
I noticed not only are the led bulbs powered direct through the full wave bridge, the primary coil is also directly powered through the led bulbs, which is probably another reason why the circuit is now oscillating very well without the magnet.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 23, 2017, 09:45:05 PM
Hi all, i had a large air core bifilar coil from previous project, each 24 awg. strand measures about 11 ohms.
Then wired the oscillator as magnetman shows, though without the relay inductor going to base.
Circuit oscillates fine and everything else is per his drawing, though i am using my hand and a small wire to replace the SCR.
The bulbs light good and the capacitor shows 4.3 volts standing, when i manually short the capacitor into the negative rail into the negative of the led bulbs, the capacitor drops to 3.6 volts and stays there, no matter how much i manually pulse it.
I am seeing no increase in brightness of the led bulbs by dumping what little is in the capacitor.
My conclusion at the moment, is that the led bulbs are mainly being driven directly by the 5 volt usb supply, unless magnetmans 12 volt led bulbs are different than mine.
I did order the bulbs from the ebay seller that magnetman listed on his first video post.
Then again, maybe my oscillator at this time, may not be outputting enough to fill the capacitor to a good voltage level to create an increase in led bulb light output.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 24, 2017, 12:00:18 AM
During the 3 years building up to what is now presently working I destroyed many transistors, burned up many neons and smoked a new watt meter.  So I don't want to put in jeopardy the working setup by doing more experiments and ruin it. Its been working real well for me now running cold with no heating problems or glowing neons.  I trust those building what I have illustrated will run further tests and see if they can take it further than I.

Hi magnetman,

I understand and respect your stance on your setup,  thanks.

From some of your previous videos I gather you have this type of DMM:
Extech 22-816 true RMS digital multimeter.  I assume this is what you use to
measure DC current and DC voltage in your setup. Is this correct?
This is its User manual: http://assets.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/Documents/22-816_UM.pdf

If yes, then I think you could do some further measurements on your setup
without making any further experimentation or any change on it.

You DMM can measure frequency from 10 Hz to 10 MHz when you turn rotary range switch
to FREQ setting and then press the button with the symbol Hz / % on it on the upper left side.
At least this is what is written in the user manual. And the black test lead banana plug goes
into negative COM jack and the red test lead banana plug goes into the positive V jack, just
like in case of say voltage measurements.

1) Now please would you check what frequency may be across capacitor C1?
2) Would you please check what frequency may be across the OUT+ and IN AND OUT-?

The latter is your output going to the LEDs. If we learn about these frequencies, then
this may help figure out that at what frequency the thyristor works as a switch. 
(Notice: I know there is DC voltage across either C1 or across the output but due to the SCR switching
there can be AC pulses across them and that would be good to know, see the next step below.)

3) One more measurement if you do not mind: set the DMM to AC voltage range and check the
AC voltage across C1 and then across the OUT+ and IN AND OUT- points. So far you mentioned
all your voltages measured were DC voltages.

By the way, if you are in AC voltage range and press the Hz / % button, then the display is
said to change to Hertz and would show the frequency of the AC voltage. This is valid also
when you measure AC current and want to know the frequency of the AC current.

Thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 24, 2017, 12:56:01 AM
....
Edit: just noticed your post magnetman, the voltage i gave for the 4 bulbs directly off usb, was directly
at output of usb, not at the capacitor.
I just connected the capacitor output from my circuit, directly to the led board and the capacitor
is showing 21 volts using the 5 volt usb input, at good brightness.
This tells me, the led board is not rated for 120 volts.
The board has 14 leds and if it is like other boards i see online, it may have 2 rows of 7 leds in series
and these are both in parallel.
And if each led uses 3 volts or so to turn on, then 21 volts makes sense.
It is drawing .52 amps at 4.9 volts or 2.55 watts from usb supply.

Hi Skywatcher,

Very good you managed to peep into that LED bulb. On the PCB we can see this:
5630-2B7C-14D  I did some search on this and found out a few things.
The 5630 means white LED type, the 2B7C means the PCB type the LEDs are mounted on
(7 may mean the 7 Watt board version) and 14D means 14 LEDs. Here is such PCB board:
https://www.sunsky-online.com/view/293913/7W+5630+SMD+White+14+LED+Aluminum+Base+Light+Panel++Diameter++50mm.htm (https://www.sunsky-online.com/view/293913/7W+5630+SMD+White+14+LED+Aluminum+Base+Light+Panel++Diameter++50mm.htm)

The LED type 5630 has 150 mA forward current and forward voltage is between 2.9 - 3.4 V.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Lumens-5630-smd-led-datasheet_60128464560.html (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Lumens-5630-smd-led-datasheet_60128464560.html)
Because two strings of 7 series LEDs are in parallel, the driving current must be 300 mA and
the driving voltage level should be indeed 7 times the forward voltage i.e. between 20.3 - 23.8 V.

This surely involves a DC-DC converter from say roughly 12V to 22V. The COB designation on this bulb
in the ebay title means Chip On Board.

Regarding LED driver board you have, it looks like it has 4 input diodes, these are SS24 Schottky types
with 40V reverse voltage, 2 Amper average current ratings. Then this means that the input voltage to
these bulbs can be either DC or AC, and in AC voltage you cannot go much higher than say 28V AC
which has around 40 V peak value.

Here is a driver board that also has 4 Schottky diodes at its input (they are SS26, 60 V and 2 Amper):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-to-DC-LED-Driver-input-DC-12-24V-output-15-42V-300mA-for-5W-6W/32302850009.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-to-DC-LED-Driver-input-DC-12-24V-output-15-42V-300mA-for-5W-6W/32302850009.html)

and it has 300 mA constant current drive feature. Probably your board also has this. It means that
the DC-DC converter always insures 300 mA forward current to the paralleled two 150 mA LED strings
and the forward voltage will settle for the 7 series LEDs automatically, no matter what their actual individual
forward voltage drops sum up to (within say the range between 18V to 22V in your case and you indeed
measured 21V across your puffer cap).

So your deductions quoted above sound correct.

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 24, 2017, 01:08:57 AM
Hi magnetman,

I understand and respect your stance on your setup,  thanks.

From some of your previous videos I gather you have this type of DMM:
Extech 22-816 true RMS digital multimeter.  I assume this is what you use to
measure DC current and DC voltage in your setup. Is this correct?
This is its User manual: http://assets.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/Documents/22-816_UM.pdf

If yes, then I think you could do some further measurements on your setup
without making any further experimentation or any change on it.

You DMM can measure frequency from 10 Hz to 10 MHz when you turn rotary range switch
to FREQ setting and then press the button with the symbol Hz / % on it on the upper left side.
At least this is what is written in the user manual. And the black test lead banana plug goes
into negative COM jack and the red test lead banana plug goes into the positive V jack, just
like in case of say voltage measurements.

1) Now please would you check what frequency may be across capacitor C1?
2) Would you please check what frequency may be across the OUT+ and IN AND OUT-?

The latter is your output going to the LEDs. If we learn about these frequencies, then
this may help figure out that at what frequency the thyristor works as a switch. 
(Notice: I know there is DC voltage across either C1 or across the output but due to the SCR switching
there can be AC pulses across them and that would be good to know, see the next step below.)

3) One more measurement if you do not mind: set the DMM to AC voltage range and check the
AC voltage across C1 and then across the OUT+ and IN AND OUT- points. So far you mentioned
all your voltages measured were DC voltages.

By the way, if you are in AC voltage range and press the Hz / % button, then the display is
said to change to Hertz and would show the frequency of the AC voltage. This is valid also
when you measure AC current and want to know the frequency of the AC current.

Thanks,
Gyula

AC measurement  59.95 HZ  across C1-- .005 volts AC      AC measurement 59.97 HZ across IN/OUT  -- .005 volts AC
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 24, 2017, 01:53:36 AM
AC measurement  59.95 HZ  across C1-- .005 volts AC      AC measurement 59.97 HZ across IN/OUT  -- .005 volts AC

Thank you.  I will comment tomorrow because I have to finish for tonight.

If I may ask you to measure now across the Gate and Cathode of the thyristor when you have time:

please check the DC and AC voltages and the frequency. 

I show in your picture across which two legs of the SCR to measure.  Sorry to nag you, not intentional.

Than you again.
Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 24, 2017, 05:30:19 AM
Thank you.  I will comment tomorrow because I have to finish for tonight.

If I may ask you to measure now across the Gate and Cathode of the thyristor when you have time:

please check the DC and AC voltages and the frequency. 

I show in your picture across which two legs of the SCR to measure.  Sorry to nag you, not intentional.

Than you again.
Gyula
DC voltage gate/cathode is 0.  frequency 0    AC voltage gate/cathode is .015  frequency 60 HZ.  Testing done with the 17 watt LUMSING wall adapter as the power source.


What I found so far is the best continuous bright light coming off the 9 led bulbs is by using my USB  LUMSING 5 volt 17 watt wall adapter as the power source to the setup. A 60 HZ signal comes out of it along with DC voltage and all 9 bulbs burn ""brightly"" continuously  because of this.  Using a 12 volt battery makes the bulbs burn maybe just a little brighter but there is no AC frequency at all no matter where I measure.   Same by using a single 3.7 volt battery lipstick size USB adapter--  No frequency- Dim bulbs.
Extremely happy using the LUMSING.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0132X03ZS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 24, 2017, 05:56:59 AM
Hi all, well, since i was not having much good results, using the oscillator circuit, because of the circuitry inside the led bulbs.
I thought that since the led board is rated for around 22 volts or so, the bulb with the inner circuitry removed, might be fairly efficient when run from the oscillator circuit.
And that is in fact the case, i gutted 2 bulbs so far and they are putting out some very good light for only 2.3 watts, using the usb power supply.
Without the capacitor in place, they are not quite as bright.
When the puffer capacitor is in place, the brightness really increases quite a bit.
I'm thinking, that may be because the flyback is a little too high for these lower voltage led boards and the capacitor absorbs the spikes and converts it to more useful lower voltage current for the bulbs.
Makes me wonder if the higher turn coil i was using previously, might be more efficient, if the capacitor can take even higher voltage spikes and convert those as well, to lower voltage current for the bulbs.
Either way, these 12 volt bulbs have many uses here, with or without the inside circuitry removed.
In the meantime, i am keenly observing what gyula and magnetman are showing about the circuit.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 24, 2017, 06:16:43 PM
DC voltage gate/cathode is 0.  frequency 0    AC voltage gate/cathode is .015  frequency 60 HZ. 
Testing done with the 17 watt LUMSING wall adapter as the power source.
....

Hi magnetman,

Thanks for all the measurements.
I requote your earlier measurement results too:
"AC measurement  59.95 HZ  across C1-- .005 volts AC     
AC measurement 59.97 HZ across IN/OUT  -- .005 volts AC" 

I think these measurement results strongly indicate the thyristor is not operating in the setup.
Very probably the low DC level you measured across C1 (around 3.3V) cannot trigger the neon
bulb any more hence the thyristor cannot fire either.  This is my deduction, based on your meter results.

The question arises whether why there is so low DC voltage, 3.3V across capacitor C1?
(You reported 3.3 V in recent reply #105 or even in reply #123 above.)  Is it possible the oscillator cannot charge it up higher?

You may wish to check the AC voltage and the frequency across the collector of
transistor TIP35C and the Common negative rail with your true RMS meter, that would be informative.

(The collector pin of the TIP35C is the middle one out of its three legs and as you surely
know the collector pin is also tied to the heat sink part of the transistor case.)

If you find no AC voltage (or any frequency other than 59.9-60Hz), then check the same
at the transistor base with respect also to the Common negative rail.

Thanks,  Gyula

PS If you find no AC voltage and frequency at the pins of the TIP35C, it may mean that it cannot
oscillate from the 5 V DC input the USB wall adapter provides. 
This may happen, I found for such oscillators the start up may be critical or none at a lower input voltage
than earlier it was from the 12V input.
Maybe this can be solved by readjusting the potmeters for the 5V input while monitoring say the DC level
across C1, it should jump up up from its 3.3 V DC level when the oscillator just begins to oscillate.
Then you can check again the AC voltages and the frequency at the points I mentioned yesterday and today.
Hopefully you can easily access the pins of the TIP35C with your meter probe tip, be careful.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 24, 2017, 06:59:52 PM
Hi magnetman,

Thanks for all the measurements.
I requote your earlier measurement results too:
"AC measurement  59.95 HZ  across C1-- .005 volts AC     
AC measurement 59.97 HZ across IN/OUT  -- .005 volts AC" 

I think these measurement results strongly indicate the thyristor is not operating in the setup.
Very probably the low DC level you measured across C1 (around 3.3V) cannot trigger the neon
bulb any more hence the thyristor cannot fire either.  This is my deduction, based on your meter results.

The question arises whether why there is so low DC voltage, 3.3V across capacitor C1?
(You reported 3.3 V in recent reply #105 or even in reply #123 above.)  Is it possible the oscillator cannot charge it up higher?

You may wish to check the AC voltage and the frequency across the collector of
transistor TIP35C and the Common negative rail with your true RMS meter, that would be informative.

(The collector pin of the TIP35C is the middle one out of its three legs and as you surely
know the collector pin is also tied to the heat sink part of the transistor case.)

If you find no AC voltage (or any frequency other than 59.9-60Hz), then check the same
at the transistor base with respect also to the Common negative rail.

Thanks,  Gyula

PS If you find no AC voltage and frequency at the pins of the TIP35C, it may mean that it cannot
oscillate from the 5 V DC input the USB wall adapter provides. 
This may happen, I found for such oscillators the start up may be critical or none at a lower input voltage
than earlier it was from the 12V input.
Maybe this can be solved by readjusting the potmeters for the 5V input while monitoring say the DC level
across C1, it should jump up up from its 3.3 V DC level when the oscillator just begins to oscillate.
Then you can check again the AC voltages and the frequency at the points I mentioned yesterday and today.
Hopefully you can easily access the pins of the TIP35C with your meter probe tip, be careful.

I still am able to spin a very small small diametric ring magnet over the coil with all 9 bulbs lit bright.  That proves the circuit is oscillating.   Notice I said very small magnet.  With NO bulbs in the circuit I can spin a huge 2 inch diametric ring magnet easily.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 24, 2017, 08:31:12 PM
I still am able to spin a very small small diametric ring magnet over the coil with all 9 bulbs lit bright.  That proves the circuit is oscillating.   Notice I said very small magnet.  With NO bulbs in the circuit I can spin a huge 2 inch diametric ring magnet easily.

Okay, that is fine, the oscillator oscillates.  However, its 'strength' may not be enough to pump up the voltage level across C1 once the DC voltage in it is 3.3 V only.  I would suggest to notice the present settings of the potmeters and then try adjusting it while monitoring the DC level across C1. 

It is very unlikely that the neon bulb is able to trigger the SCR from 3.3 V only.  Can you agree with this?

I would suggest to check the DC and AC voltage level between the negative leg of C1 and the Common negative rail.

As an alternative test, if I may, maybe you can run your setup from the variable power supply you have and adjusting its output voltage from 5 V first to replace the 5V USB adapter and then slowly increasing the supply voltage up towards the 10 -12 V while monitoring the 3.3 V across C1.  I suggest to unplug and then replug one of the output cable of the power supply to give a 'nudge' to the oscillator whenever an increased output voltage is set.

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 24, 2017, 09:53:20 PM
Okay, that is fine, the oscillator oscillates.  However, its 'strength' may not be enough to pump up the voltage level across C1 once the DC voltage in it is 3.3 V only.  I would suggest to notice the present settings of the potmeters and then try adjusting it while monitoring the DC level across C1. 

It is very unlikely that the neon bulb is able to trigger the SCR from 3.3 V only.  Can you agree with this?

I would suggest to check the DC and AC voltage level between the negative leg of C1 and the Common negative rail.

As an alternative test, if I may, maybe you can run your setup from the variable power supply you have and adjusting its output voltage from 5 V first to replace the 5V USB adapter and then slowly increasing the supply voltage up towards the 10 -12 V while monitoring the 3.3 V across C1.  I suggest to unplug and then replug one of the output cable of the power supply to give a 'nudge' to the oscillator whenever an increased output voltage is set.

Gyula
""""
When I got the setup working the very first time ""without problems"" I noticed the potentiometers were set as per what is shown on my diagram.  The R2 pot is adjusted  full counterclockwise and the R3 pot is full clockwise. With any other settings  problems came up.  The bottom line is if someone can connect 9 --  7 watt led bulbs in parallel and power them STRAIGHT from a 5 volt USB device I can compare my results with theirs and my test includes the power going through my setup from my 5 volt USB adapter.  This will show what the setup is capable of doing.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 24, 2017, 10:32:18 PM
""""
When I got the setup working the very first time ""without problems"" I noticed the potentiometers were set as per what is shown on my diagram.  The R2 pot is adjusted  full counterclockwise and the R3 pot is full clockwise. With any other settings  problems came up.  The bottom line is if someone can connect 9 --  7 watt led bulbs in parallel and power them STRAIGHT from a 5 volt USB device I can compare my results with theirs and my test includes the power going through my setup from my 5 volt USB adapter.  This will show what the setup is capable of doing.

Well, I understand this comparison but it will be subjective when judging and comparing the brightness.

The measured power fed into the LEDs in one setup could be more readily compared to that of another setup, together with a measured input power to the setup, this would be more scientific and much less subjective. 
The small uncertainty remaining in this latter comparison is that we need to assume that the group of LEDs driven by one setup gives very close brightness to that of the other group of LEDs driven by the other setup.  I mean if you run two groups of LEDs from the same power source there can still be small differences in brightness, even if all the LEDs in the two groups have the same make and type.  I do not mean nitpicking here, just express my opinion on power level comparisons rather than brightness comparisons by eye ball judgements.

Thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 25, 2017, 03:11:08 AM
This is to whomever is constructing this circuit.  You are going to have to buy at least 10 LED -seven watt 12 volt bulbs for starters and one each LUMSING  5 volt USB power wall adapter.  They are illustrated below.  After buying both connect 9 of your led bulbs in parallel and then power the bulbs from your USB adapter DIRECTLY.  Take note of the output voltage and current between the USB and the bulbs.  Also the frequency if you are equipped to do that. Check bulb brightness visually!!!

This is where I come in with my setup:  I will do the same thing but in my case I will put my powered setup between the USB adapter and the bulbs. I will measure once more the voltage/current coming off the USB and then the same across the C1 capacitor in my setup.  I show a frequency of 60 HZ  (All 9 of my bulbs burn very bright.)

We will compare both readings and this should give us a very good idea as to just what the circuit is capable of doing or not doing.   Then you can make up your mind if you wish to proceed or invest further.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-4-10X-E27-E26-High-Power-LED-Lamp-Bulb-7W-White-Light-Energy-Saving-12V-Lights-/272226354567

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0132X03ZS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO11A4jPkG4
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 25, 2017, 08:26:04 AM
Hi all, Hi magnetman, thanks for sharing, that is what matters, that we all share to help benefit one another.
I'm glad i bought these 12 volt led bulbs.
Because with the inner circuitry removed, 4 of them in parallel, are now as bright as the old model 6 watt eco smart bulbs i was using.
Though instead of using 4 watts, these are using 2.5 watts with the usb power supply.
The circuit is a little different than i previously posted, just one diode off collector, then into led bulbs with capacitor in parallel with led bulbs, so more like a typical joule thief arrangement.
It's the low voltage led boards, that is really helping the efficiency here.
Also changed the transistor to a TIP3055 NPN.
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 25, 2017, 07:46:00 PM
Hi all, Hi magnetman, thanks for sharing, that is what matters, that we all share to help benefit one another.
I'm glad i bought these 12 volt led bulbs.
Because with the inner circuitry removed, 4 of them in parallel, are now as bright as the old model 6 watt eco smart bulbs i was using.
Though instead of using 4 watts, these are using 2.5 watts with the usb power supply.
The circuit is a little different than i previously posted, just one diode off collector, then into led bulbs with capacitor in parallel with led bulbs, so more like a typical joule thief arrangement.
It's the low voltage led boards, that is really helping the efficiency here.
Also changed the transistor to a TIP3055 NPN.
peace love light
I just did another system test and found with all bulbs lit brightly I had 6.2625 watts  measured between the 17 watt USB adapter and the setup.  All other system watt values I measured were lower.  So the big question now is how is 63 bulb watts powered by 6+ watts which was the highest value measured ??
Waiting to compare results from anyone who has gone this far.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on April 26, 2017, 05:10:53 AM
Hi magnetman, I am also having good results, though i switched to 12 volt input, since i'm using the 12 volt gutted led bulbs now.
It is definitely brighter than the previous video i shared of the ecosmart bulbs.
The oscillator is powering 5 gutted 12 volt led bulbs at 11.81 volts at 280 milliamps or 3.3 watts.
One of them is a 6000k color temperature bulb and is a little brighter than the warm white.
They sent me the wrong bulbs, oh well.
https://youtu.be/jBcPsE0m1y0 (https://youtu.be/jBcPsE0m1y0)
peace love light
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 26, 2017, 07:22:16 AM
Well that's two of us and possibly more persons later that are having good luck using this startup LED low power technology.
I wonder when someone wakes up in the automotive industry and sees the light.
Auto components can be downsized starting with the alternator and all wiring if LED bulbs are employed. Less weight.
That in itself should be a wakeup call.  Get a excellent team of engineers on this and no telling how far it may go. Don't need a lot of current to push through the wires any more.

I also have to mention that it could be used to light up places that are impoverished because the cost of electricity is beyond reach.  With a low wattage setup like this it becomes a viable commodity.
No the electric companies won't go out of business they will only get more customers,
Its a win -win situation for all.
It my hope a lot of persons takes this to heart.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Ed morbus on April 26, 2017, 08:46:30 AM
magnetman12003
have you more info for total cable wire length and how many ohm
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 26, 2017, 08:09:01 PM
magnetman12003
have you more info for total cable wire length and how many ohm
If you are asking about the coil makeup then here is the info:
740 feet of [two wire] 24 gauge PVC coated wire is needed.  19 ohms should be measured through each wire if correctly cut.  Wind the FACTORY PRE TWISTED  cross connect (name) wire clockwise  starting from the INNER core and stopping at the OUTER outside. Now you have a air core coil.  Spool diameter is 6.5 inches, width is 2  1/8 inch.  The spool and 1000 feet of this kind of wire can be found on Ebay.
 This particular spool below is great as it shows two long wires coming out of the core.  All one has to do now is strip off enough wire from the outside of the spool till you have 19 ohms measured and you have a finished coil.  The spool itself is the diameter/width needed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roll-of-General-Wire-Cross-Connect-2-C-24AWG-1000-Wire-Blue-White-/172635713218?hash=item2831e3eec2:g:2mMAAOSwGy5Y8Eie

Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Ed morbus on April 26, 2017, 10:48:32 PM
Thanks for information
To the Netherlands Shipping costs are so expensive
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 26, 2017, 11:19:23 PM
I just did another system test and found with all bulbs lit brightly I had 6.2625 watts  measured between the 17 watt USB adapter and the setup.  All other system watt values I measured were lower.  So the big question now is how is 63 bulb watts powered by 6+ watts which was the highest value measured ??
Waiting to compare results from anyone who has gone this far.

Hi magnetman,

I would like you to consider the following test suggestion. It would help to check with pretty good accuracy how much output power your setup feeds into the group of your LED bulbs.

You have got a variable power supply as shown in an earlier video of yours. That power supply could be used to drive the same group of LED bulbs directly to achieve the same brightness your setup provides. And if you happen to have a lux meter then the subjective eye ball comparison in the two brightnesses could also be eliminated.

Because your power supply has built-in output voltage and current meters (but you can also use your multimeters to double check)  the power driving the group of LEDs directly from the power supply could be received and calculated that is needed to achieve the equivalent brightness your setup provides. Thus a more exact estimation of the input - output levels can be had.

I understand you wish people replicate this setup, the more the better.  One thing is sure: if the results of your measurements as suggested above reflect similar behaviour for your setup what you wrapped up like this in an earlier post:
"THE REAL QUESTION TO ASK IS HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT CLOSE TO 63 WATTS ARE NEEDED TO POWER THE BULBS? 4 TO 6+ WATTS SHOULD NOT DO THIS??",  then you will surely have your wish fulfilled.

People normally need technically convincing proof to take actions.  I do know you are an honest experimenter, you do have good intentions and your findings seem to refer to an anomaly. This should be proved by all means possible, in a scientific way.

Thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: ramset on April 26, 2017, 11:30:04 PM
Gyula

a humble suggestion, caloric measurement protocol ?

a fixed loss to ambient test .

put the bulbs in a box ...measure the max temp the box rises  against ambient losses,[it will peak] note input power
from DUT [device under test]

now run same test off standard power [control]
if DUT [device under test] makes same box hotter with less input power
do the happy dance

very very simple test, have used it many times {thanks Vortex1]

I can ask for assistance here if you wish[to thoroughly explain simple test]

the results once done properly will not be disputable

a cardboard box and a thermometer [instead of Lux meter which may not be as conclusive]

with respect
Chet K
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 26, 2017, 11:47:12 PM
Hi Chet,

Well, your suggestion would also be feasable I think and a thermally well isolated and closed box should be built for such tests.

I assume the direct DC power input measurement to the group of the LEDs from a clean power supply to get the same brightness (lumen output) the setup feeds into it may be a simple method. 

Obviously, there can be some methods to consider and which is simpler but still able to give reasonable measurement results.  I do not insist on my suggested method,  the goal is clear. 

Thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: ramset on April 26, 2017, 11:53:30 PM
Gyula
Just a cardboard box... no real leaks but no insulation ,the loss to ambient will be the guide here [final temp rise against  losses]

if DUT test gets hotter than control test running on same power input.
example
ten watt resistor will only raise temp in box to an ultimate temp against losses
if DUT makes Box hotter [same box same ambient temp] with less power than control test.

you have something to qualify the claim, caloric measurement is a rock solid science

I always like to run tests side by side [same size box at same time]

your suggestion is not being dismissed here ,its just that cardboard boxes and thermometers are everywhere, not everyone has a Lux meter [or needs to buy one]

and it can be done in minutes ,and once done it can be used to measure advancements

respectfully
Chet K
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 27, 2017, 12:10:07 AM
Okay Chet, I understand, it indeed sounds simple and accurate.

On the lux meter:  if someone has such meter he places it near to the lamps on the table to have a steady value displayed on it in a position and from then on the meter remains untouched during the measurements. Then with a alternative switch the LEDs could be switched by hand to be fed from either the setup output or from directly the power supply.   
When there is no lux meter available, even an eyeball brightness comparison could be done to get a reasonable estimation of the power level coming from the power supply because in this setup a COP of 10 is involved.   (what I doubt, sorry)

Thanks
Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on April 27, 2017, 09:08:16 PM
Hi All,
Thought you might want to see the below experiment:

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=zwu0RZ2pkjw
A 1.5 volt battery is powering 9 seven watt, 12 volt, led bulbs now through my setup.

I am now open for a substantial offer on my entire setup. I have all extra parts to exactly duplicate it.  Then whoever purchases it can run all the experiments suggested by others and I can take a rest while others put in their time and take it further.
Whoever needs it also buys about 150 pounds of different experimental parts that were accumulated leading up to the present setup. Need a pickup truck to haul all away unless you opt only for the setup itself.  I live in Michigan, USA  Pay Pal only PRIOR to purchase.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: ramset on April 27, 2017, 09:12:48 PM
your link {you tube] seems broken ? although it could be my end.
thx
Chet
ps
Thanks to Gyula below

Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: gyulasun on April 27, 2017, 09:16:31 PM
your link {you tube] seems broken ? although it could be my end.
thx
Chet

Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwu0RZ2pkjw

Gyula
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Vickysong on May 02, 2017, 11:20:26 AM
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Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 02, 2017, 08:58:19 PM
I have a question to ask:  I can power 9 seven watt 12 volt bulbs and get quite a good output with my setup.  I did notice that when I powered it directly using  a 12 volt 12 amp hour battery my bulbs burn with a intense light much brighter than anything I have experimented before with.

What kind of AC TO 12 volt DC power pack can replace the battery???  I noticed there are regulated and unregulated and with and without transformers.  I  want a unit that will not pulse the bulbs.  I  have 2 units already that do just that rated at 12 volts,6amps.  Someone point me in the right direction
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: Cherryman on May 02, 2017, 09:15:45 PM
I have a question to ask:  I can power 9 seven watt 12 volt bulbs and get quite a good output with my setup.  I did notice that when I powered it directly using  a 12 volt 12 amp hour battery my bulbs burn with a intense light much brighter than anything I have experimented before with.

What kind of AC TO 12 volt DC power pack can replace the battery???  I noticed there are regulated and unregulated and with and without transformers.  I  want a unit that will not pulse the bulbs.  I  have 2 units already that do just that rated at 12 volts,6amps.  Someone point me in the right direction


Maybe you can try aiming them at a solar panel?


Break of the plastic or glass bulbs, make them "spots" and see what kind of power you can harvest from the light and recharge the battery.


And do not forget that you can grow (indoor) veggies (or other) plants easily with those bulbs ( speaking from experience).


Maybe not the direction you asked for, I'm sorry, but keep up the good work!



Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 25, 2017, 05:08:49 AM
I just ran a new 12 volt  power supply through my circuit.  I have 9 twelve volt 7 watt bulbs in parallel.
That's 63 total watts.  I had all bulbs at full brilliance and measured 4.63 volts and 1.21 amps where the power supply was connected to the ""Operating"" setup.    4.63 X 1.21 = 5.6023 Watts powering
63 watts. 
 
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 25, 2017, 08:09:18 PM
I have an interesting question that someone might answer.  I just bought a 12 volt 30 amp 360 watt power unit.  What 12 volt battery would be its equivalent in amp hours and watts?
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: TinselKoala on May 25, 2017, 08:44:42 PM
I have an interesting question that someone might answer.  I just bought a 12 volt 30 amp 360 watt power unit.  What 12 volt battery would be its equivalent in amp hours and watts?

You can't really compare a battery and a power supply in that way. The best you can do is to say that they both will put out 12 volts, for a while, into certain loads.
You don't say whether your power unit is a voltage regulated supply. If it isn't, its voltage will droop when connected to a heavy load.

The "Amp-Hour" is a measure of _energy capacity_ of a battery. The nominal voltage multiplied by the amp-hour rating gives "volt-amp hours" which, converted to seconds by multiplying by 3600 seconds per hour, gives the energy in Joules.
Since the power unit will continue to put out power for as long as you have it connected to the wall outlet, its "energy capacity" is "infinite". It won't run down as long as it's connected to the working mains!

Batteries, especially lead-acid types, have very low internal resistance, so the "watts" they can put out can be very very large if the load also has low resistance. Drop a wrench across the terminals and the battery may put out thousands of watts for a few seconds while it welds the wrench in place and then explodes. Connect it to a more reasonable load like a car brake light bulb and it will put out 25 watts, or whatever the bulb is rated for, until it gradually runs down. Your power unit is maxed out at 360 watts (that is, 12 volts at 30 amps, which means into a 0.4 ohm load,  IF it can actually meet its rating)  so you aren't likely to weld anything by connecting it to a direct short.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 26, 2017, 07:29:16 PM
You can't really compare a battery and a power supply in that way. The best you can do is to say that they both will put out 12 volts, for a while, into certain loads.
You don't say whether your power unit is a voltage regulated supply. If it isn't, its voltage will droop when connected to a heavy load.

The "Amp-Hour" is a measure of _energy capacity_ of a battery. The nominal voltage multiplied by the amp-hour rating gives "volt-amp hours" which, converted to seconds by multiplying by 3600 seconds per hour, ,
Since the power unit will continue to put out power for as long as you have it connected to the wall outlet, its "energy capacity" is "infinite". It won't run down as long as it's connected to the working mains!

Batteries, especially lead-acid types, have very low internal resistance, so the "watts" they can put out can be very very large if the load also has low resistance. Drop a wrench across the terminals and the battery may put out thousands of watts for a few seconds while it welds the wrench in place and then explodes. Connect it to a more reasonable load like a car brake light bulb and it will put out 25 watts, or whatever the bulb is rated for, until it gradually runs down. Your power unit is maxed out at 360 watts (that is, 12 volts at 30 amps, which means into a 0.4 ohm load,  IF it can actually meet its rating)  so you aren't likely to weld anything by connecting it to a direct short.


Hi, Thank you for all your information. I was using an unregulated power supply.
I now bought a ""voltage regulated"" 12 volt , 30 amp, 360 watt power supply.  How many 12 volt seven watt led bulbs can this  power supply light up continuously is my next question because that's my intent.  I had a lot of smaller power supply's pulse the bulbs in the past and would not continuously light them.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: TinselKoala on May 26, 2017, 09:33:51 PM
To address your problem properly you will also need a good lightmeter so that you can tell the true brightness or light output power of your bulbs in each condition: Lit by straight DC voltage, or lit by your oscillator. You may also need some way to measure or show the power factor when using the oscillator.

It is very difficult to tell the true brightness of a bulb by eye alone, especially if they are bright. So perhaps you can light up 360/7 = 51 bulbs with the straight DC power output of your power supply (assuming it really can maintain 360 watts output at 12 volts), and perhaps you can light up more than that with the oscillator... but will they truly be as bright as the DC powered bulbs?

Of course, since your lighting needs are determined by what your eye can see rather than a lightmeter reading, perhaps it doesn't really matter, as long as you are getting enough light for your needs. But if you really want to do an energy balance measurement you need better instruments than your eyeballs alone.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on May 27, 2017, 12:33:11 AM
To address your problem properly you will also need a good lightmeter so that you can tell the true brightness or light output power of your bulbs in each condition: Lit by straight DC voltage, or lit by your oscillator. You may also need some way to measure or show the power factor when using the oscillator.

It is very difficult to tell the true brightness of a bulb by eye alone, especially if they are bright. So perhaps you can light up 360/7 = 51 bulbs with the straight DC power output of your power supply (assuming it really can maintain 360 watts output at 12 volts), and perhaps you can light up more than that with the oscillator... but will they truly be as bright as the DC powered bulbs?

Of course, since your lighting needs are determined by what your eye can see rather than a lightmeter reading, perhaps it doesn't really matter, as long as you are getting enough light for your needs. But if you really want to do an energy balance measurement you need better instruments than your eyeballs alone.

 I just bought a new lux/foot candle meter so I will use that and meter the light from a single bulb off a direct connection to my power supply. Will use that reading as a standard for readings later when many bulbs are powered.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: TinselKoala on May 27, 2017, 01:47:28 AM
That's good! So you will no doubt build a light box and some kind of fixture, to exclude ambient light and to hold your bulb(s) at the same distance from the lightmeter's sensor for every measurement. I'll be looking forward to seeing your results!

Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: vinny15 on May 28, 2017, 03:15:27 PM
Two single phase meters at input and output can prove overunity .
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on June 17, 2017, 04:06:54 AM
Two single phase meters at input and output can prove overunity .

I am working on that.  I have metered the output of a single 10 watt led 115 volt bulb with a candlepower meter.
This reading is now my standard as the bulb was connected directly to a 115 volt AC power source.

Now with the experimental setup I have developed I plan to power three such bulbs as above in series with my setup between a 12 volt dc power source and bulbs.  If my illumination  has a greater candlepower for each of all three bulbs and lower current/wattage I will have proven over unity.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: lancaIV on June 17, 2017, 01:00:55 PM
High efficiency ( technical view ) -but- underunity (physical standpoint) :
                        http://www.rexresearch.com/imris/imris.htm
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on June 19, 2017, 03:56:32 AM
I am working on that.  I have metered the output of a single 10 watt led 115 volt bulb with a candlepower meter.
This reading is now my standard as the bulb was connected directly to a 115 volt AC power source.

Now with the experimental setup I have developed I plan to power three such bulbs as above in series with my setup between a 12 volt dc power source and bulbs.  If my illumination  has a greater candlepower for each of all three bulbs and lower current/wattage I will have proven over unity.
Title: Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
Post by: magnetman12003 on June 22, 2017, 01:21:27 AM
I am working on that.  I have metered the output of a single 10 watt led 115 volt bulb with a candlepower meter.
The reading of 3700 candlepower is now my standard as the bulb was connected directly to a 115 volt AC power source. I took the reading a precise distance away from the lit bulb.

Now with the experimental setup I have developed I plan to power three such bulbs as above in series with my setup between a 12 volt dc power source and bulbs.  If my illumination  has a greater candlepower for each of all three bulbs and lower current/wattage I will have proven over unity.