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Author Topic: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS  (Read 25948 times)

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #120 on: April 23, 2017, 03:55:32 AM »
Hi all, hi magnetman, i received the order with the 10 led bulbs, which are 7 watt bulbs, i noticed one so far is not working, so i decided to open it up and see what's inside and what the problem is.
The wire came loose from the base of the bulb, easy fix.
Now this is very interesting, it looks like it might be some kind of boost circuit inside, to take the 12 volts and transform it probably to 120 volts.
It may be the same led board they use for 120 volt bulbs.
Notice the chip under the capacitor and the inductor and full wave bridge.
I tried the bulb on my 12 volt battery and it powers the bulb no matter the polarity, from the battery.
When powering direct from my 12 volt tractor battery, the bulb draws .53 amps at 12.29 volts or 6.5 watts and is very bright.
I tested 4 bulbs in parallel with my circuit as it is and it draws .5 amps at 4.93 volts or 2.47 watts, using the 5 volt-2.4 amp, usb power supply.
The bulbs are not very bright, though with some tweaking, i'm sure i can bring them to good brightness.
Though, considering these bulbs have a boost circuit inside, magnetmans SCR dumping method may be the way to go, we shall see.
peace love light


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #120 on: April 23, 2017, 03:55:32 AM »

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #121 on: April 23, 2017, 04:23:45 AM »
Update: i just tested one of the 12 volt led bulbs and it lights using a directly driven single lithium ion cell and draws .55 amps at 3.84 volts or 2.1 watts and brightness is pretty good.
peace love light

Edit: Also tested using the usb power supply and with the 4 parallel led bulbs driven directly from the usb supply, it draws 1.34 amps at 4.14 volts or 5.55 watts and brightness is very good.
Whole room is lighted nicely, though i have no doubt magnetmans setup does better.


Offline broli

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #122 on: April 23, 2017, 03:08:06 PM »
Build a few replicas and send them out to a few trusted people with good equipment. The community will cover all the costs.

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #123 on: April 23, 2017, 06:02:32 PM »
Update: i just tested one of the 12 volt led bulbs and it lights using a directly driven single lithium ion cell and draws .55 amps at 3.84 volts or 2.1 watts and brightness is pretty good.
peace love light

Edit: Also tested using the usb power supply and with the 4 parallel led bulbs driven directly from the usb supply, it draws 1.34 amps at 4.14 volts or 5.55 watts and brightness is very good.
Whole room is lighted nicely, though i have no doubt magnetmans setup does better.

Hi SkyWatcher,
When you find time connect 9 of your bulbs in parallel and using your USB wall adapter ONLY as a power source find the USB DC output voltage and current it takes to light your bulbs.

I have found using my wall type USB adapter powering the ""NINE"" bulbs ""THROUGH THE SETUP"" there is 3.30 DC volts across the C1 Capacitor at 1.26 DC amps.  Totals 4.158 watts.  I Would love to see what difference there is between a straight shot to your USB adapter versus a shot through my USB adapter AND SETUP terminating across the C1 capacitor.


Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #124 on: April 23, 2017, 06:04:55 PM »
Hi all, so what i'm saying in my previous post is, based upon magnetmans circuit, 5 volts input is direct driving his led bulbs, through his full wave bridge in his circuit and also because of the boost circuitry inside the bulb.
Though i would assume his capacitor dumping circuit may also be contributing power to the bulbs, which may explain why the light output is so smooth and not blinking, because the capacitor dump pulses are riding on top of the output from the directly driven input
I tried two nimh cells in series for around 2.56 volts and that voltage does not light up the led bulbs, directly driven, though 3 of those cells in series does.
I also tried driving the led board direct, which means bypassing the led bulbs driver circuitry and with a 12 volt battery and it does not light up, it seems it is a board rated for 120 volts.
Hi broli, not sure who you are speaking to.
peace love light

Edit: just noticed your post magnetman, the voltage i gave for the 4 bulbs directly off usb, was directly at output of usb, not at the capacitor.
I just connected the capacitor output from my circuit, directly to the led board and the capacitor is showing 21 volts using the 5 volt usb input, at good brightness.
This tells me, the led board is not rated for 120 volts.
The board has 14 leds and if it is like other boards i see online, it may have 2 rows of 7 leds in series and these are both in parallel.
And if each led uses 3 volts or so to turn on, then 21 volts makes sense.
It is drawing .52 amps at 4.9 volts or 2.55 watts from usb supply.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #124 on: April 23, 2017, 06:04:55 PM »
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Offline magnetman12003

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #125 on: April 23, 2017, 07:08:25 PM »
Hi all, so what i'm saying in my previous post is, based upon magnetmans circuit, 5 volts input is direct driving his led bulbs, through his full wave bridge in his circuit and also because of the boost circuitry inside the bulb.
Though i would assume his capacitor dumping circuit may also be contributing power to the bulbs, which may explain why the light output is so smooth and not blinking, because the capacitor dump pulses are riding on top of the output from the directly driven input
I tried two nimh cells in series for around 2.56 volts and that voltage does not light up the led bulbs, directly driven, though 3 of those cells in series does.
I also tried driving the led board direct, which means bypassing the led bulbs driver circuitry and with a 12 volt battery and it does not light up, it seems it is a board rated for 120 volts.
Hi broli, not sure who you are speaking to.
peace love light

Just moments ago I tried the same experiment again.  I focused on the voltage/current across the C1 capacitor with the setup powered only by my USB 5 volt 17 watt wall adapter.   I got 2.60 volts/1.15 amps totaling 2.99 watts????????  This time I did this many times.  Even checking with my other multi meter.  Once again all 9 seven watt led bulbs lit up brightly???  The USB ran cold to the touch.

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #126 on: April 23, 2017, 08:05:51 PM »
Hi magnetman, thanks for sharing your information.
At the moment, i only have 6 receptacles for led bulbs, when i get more i will do the direct test from usb supply.
I was looking at your circuit drawing again and since we have determined the led bulbs are being lighted directly by the 5 volt input.
I noticed not only are the led bulbs powered direct through the full wave bridge, the primary coil is also directly powered through the led bulbs, which is probably another reason why the circuit is now oscillating very well without the magnet.
peace love light

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #126 on: April 23, 2017, 08:05:51 PM »
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Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #127 on: April 23, 2017, 09:45:05 PM »
Hi all, i had a large air core bifilar coil from previous project, each 24 awg. strand measures about 11 ohms.
Then wired the oscillator as magnetman shows, though without the relay inductor going to base.
Circuit oscillates fine and everything else is per his drawing, though i am using my hand and a small wire to replace the SCR.
The bulbs light good and the capacitor shows 4.3 volts standing, when i manually short the capacitor into the negative rail into the negative of the led bulbs, the capacitor drops to 3.6 volts and stays there, no matter how much i manually pulse it.
I am seeing no increase in brightness of the led bulbs by dumping what little is in the capacitor.
My conclusion at the moment, is that the led bulbs are mainly being driven directly by the 5 volt usb supply, unless magnetmans 12 volt led bulbs are different than mine.
I did order the bulbs from the ebay seller that magnetman listed on his first video post.
Then again, maybe my oscillator at this time, may not be outputting enough to fill the capacitor to a good voltage level to create an increase in led bulb light output.
peace love light

Offline gyulasun

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #128 on: April 24, 2017, 12:00:18 AM »
During the 3 years building up to what is now presently working I destroyed many transistors, burned up many neons and smoked a new watt meter.  So I don't want to put in jeopardy the working setup by doing more experiments and ruin it. Its been working real well for me now running cold with no heating problems or glowing neons.  I trust those building what I have illustrated will run further tests and see if they can take it further than I.

Hi magnetman,

I understand and respect your stance on your setup,  thanks.

From some of your previous videos I gather you have this type of DMM:
Extech 22-816 true RMS digital multimeter.  I assume this is what you use to
measure DC current and DC voltage in your setup. Is this correct?
This is its User manual: http://assets.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/Documents/22-816_UM.pdf

If yes, then I think you could do some further measurements on your setup
without making any further experimentation or any change on it.

You DMM can measure frequency from 10 Hz to 10 MHz when you turn rotary range switch
to FREQ setting and then press the button with the symbol Hz / % on it on the upper left side.
At least this is what is written in the user manual. And the black test lead banana plug goes
into negative COM jack and the red test lead banana plug goes into the positive V jack, just
like in case of say voltage measurements.

1) Now please would you check what frequency may be across capacitor C1?
2) Would you please check what frequency may be across the OUT+ and IN AND OUT-?

The latter is your output going to the LEDs. If we learn about these frequencies, then
this may help figure out that at what frequency the thyristor works as a switch. 
(Notice: I know there is DC voltage across either C1 or across the output but due to the SCR switching
there can be AC pulses across them and that would be good to know, see the next step below.)

3) One more measurement if you do not mind: set the DMM to AC voltage range and check the
AC voltage across C1 and then across the OUT+ and IN AND OUT- points. So far you mentioned
all your voltages measured were DC voltages.

By the way, if you are in AC voltage range and press the Hz / % button, then the display is
said to change to Hertz and would show the frequency of the AC voltage. This is valid also
when you measure AC current and want to know the frequency of the AC current.

Thanks,
Gyula

Offline gyulasun

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #129 on: April 24, 2017, 12:56:01 AM »
....
Edit: just noticed your post magnetman, the voltage i gave for the 4 bulbs directly off usb, was directly
at output of usb, not at the capacitor.
I just connected the capacitor output from my circuit, directly to the led board and the capacitor
is showing 21 volts using the 5 volt usb input, at good brightness.
This tells me, the led board is not rated for 120 volts.
The board has 14 leds and if it is like other boards i see online, it may have 2 rows of 7 leds in series
and these are both in parallel.
And if each led uses 3 volts or so to turn on, then 21 volts makes sense.
It is drawing .52 amps at 4.9 volts or 2.55 watts from usb supply.

Hi Skywatcher,

Very good you managed to peep into that LED bulb. On the PCB we can see this:
5630-2B7C-14D  I did some search on this and found out a few things.
The 5630 means white LED type, the 2B7C means the PCB type the LEDs are mounted on
(7 may mean the 7 Watt board version) and 14D means 14 LEDs. Here is such PCB board:
https://www.sunsky-online.com/view/293913/7W+5630+SMD+White+14+LED+Aluminum+Base+Light+Panel++Diameter++50mm.htm

The LED type 5630 has 150 mA forward current and forward voltage is between 2.9 - 3.4 V.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Lumens-5630-smd-led-datasheet_60128464560.html
Because two strings of 7 series LEDs are in parallel, the driving current must be 300 mA and
the driving voltage level should be indeed 7 times the forward voltage i.e. between 20.3 - 23.8 V.

This surely involves a DC-DC converter from say roughly 12V to 22V. The COB designation on this bulb
in the ebay title means Chip On Board.

Regarding LED driver board you have, it looks like it has 4 input diodes, these are SS24 Schottky types
with 40V reverse voltage, 2 Amper average current ratings. Then this means that the input voltage to
these bulbs can be either DC or AC, and in AC voltage you cannot go much higher than say 28V AC
which has around 40 V peak value.

Here is a driver board that also has 4 Schottky diodes at its input (they are SS26, 60 V and 2 Amper):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-to-DC-LED-Driver-input-DC-12-24V-output-15-42V-300mA-for-5W-6W/32302850009.html

and it has 300 mA constant current drive feature. Probably your board also has this. It means that
the DC-DC converter always insures 300 mA forward current to the paralleled two 150 mA LED strings
and the forward voltage will settle for the 7 series LEDs automatically, no matter what their actual individual
forward voltage drops sum up to (within say the range between 18V to 22V in your case and you indeed
measured 21V across your puffer cap).

So your deductions quoted above sound correct.

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #129 on: April 24, 2017, 12:56:01 AM »
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Offline magnetman12003

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #130 on: April 24, 2017, 01:08:57 AM »
Hi magnetman,

I understand and respect your stance on your setup,  thanks.

From some of your previous videos I gather you have this type of DMM:
Extech 22-816 true RMS digital multimeter.  I assume this is what you use to
measure DC current and DC voltage in your setup. Is this correct?
This is its User manual: http://assets.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/Documents/22-816_UM.pdf

If yes, then I think you could do some further measurements on your setup
without making any further experimentation or any change on it.

You DMM can measure frequency from 10 Hz to 10 MHz when you turn rotary range switch
to FREQ setting and then press the button with the symbol Hz / % on it on the upper left side.
At least this is what is written in the user manual. And the black test lead banana plug goes
into negative COM jack and the red test lead banana plug goes into the positive V jack, just
like in case of say voltage measurements.

1) Now please would you check what frequency may be across capacitor C1?
2) Would you please check what frequency may be across the OUT+ and IN AND OUT-?

The latter is your output going to the LEDs. If we learn about these frequencies, then
this may help figure out that at what frequency the thyristor works as a switch. 
(Notice: I know there is DC voltage across either C1 or across the output but due to the SCR switching
there can be AC pulses across them and that would be good to know, see the next step below.)

3) One more measurement if you do not mind: set the DMM to AC voltage range and check the
AC voltage across C1 and then across the OUT+ and IN AND OUT- points. So far you mentioned
all your voltages measured were DC voltages.

By the way, if you are in AC voltage range and press the Hz / % button, then the display is
said to change to Hertz and would show the frequency of the AC voltage. This is valid also
when you measure AC current and want to know the frequency of the AC current.

Thanks,
Gyula

AC measurement  59.95 HZ  across C1-- .005 volts AC      AC measurement 59.97 HZ across IN/OUT  -- .005 volts AC

Offline gyulasun

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #131 on: April 24, 2017, 01:53:36 AM »
AC measurement  59.95 HZ  across C1-- .005 volts AC      AC measurement 59.97 HZ across IN/OUT  -- .005 volts AC

Thank you.  I will comment tomorrow because I have to finish for tonight.

If I may ask you to measure now across the Gate and Cathode of the thyristor when you have time:

please check the DC and AC voltages and the frequency. 

I show in your picture across which two legs of the SCR to measure.  Sorry to nag you, not intentional.

Than you again.
Gyula


Offline magnetman12003

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #132 on: April 24, 2017, 05:30:19 AM »
Thank you.  I will comment tomorrow because I have to finish for tonight.

If I may ask you to measure now across the Gate and Cathode of the thyristor when you have time:

please check the DC and AC voltages and the frequency. 

I show in your picture across which two legs of the SCR to measure.  Sorry to nag you, not intentional.

Than you again.
Gyula
DC voltage gate/cathode is 0.  frequency 0    AC voltage gate/cathode is .015  frequency 60 HZ.  Testing done with the 17 watt LUMSING wall adapter as the power source.


What I found so far is the best continuous bright light coming off the 9 led bulbs is by using my USB  LUMSING 5 volt 17 watt wall adapter as the power source to the setup. A 60 HZ signal comes out of it along with DC voltage and all 9 bulbs burn ""brightly"" continuously  because of this.  Using a 12 volt battery makes the bulbs burn maybe just a little brighter but there is no AC frequency at all no matter where I measure.   Same by using a single 3.7 volt battery lipstick size USB adapter--  No frequency- Dim bulbs.
Extremely happy using the LUMSING.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0132X03ZS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #133 on: April 24, 2017, 05:56:59 AM »
Hi all, well, since i was not having much good results, using the oscillator circuit, because of the circuitry inside the led bulbs.
I thought that since the led board is rated for around 22 volts or so, the bulb with the inner circuitry removed, might be fairly efficient when run from the oscillator circuit.
And that is in fact the case, i gutted 2 bulbs so far and they are putting out some very good light for only 2.3 watts, using the usb power supply.
Without the capacitor in place, they are not quite as bright.
When the puffer capacitor is in place, the brightness really increases quite a bit.
I'm thinking, that may be because the flyback is a little too high for these lower voltage led boards and the capacitor absorbs the spikes and converts it to more useful lower voltage current for the bulbs.
Makes me wonder if the higher turn coil i was using previously, might be more efficient, if the capacitor can take even higher voltage spikes and convert those as well, to lower voltage current for the bulbs.
Either way, these 12 volt bulbs have many uses here, with or without the inside circuitry removed.
In the meantime, i am keenly observing what gyula and magnetman are showing about the circuit.
peace love light


Offline gyulasun

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Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #134 on: April 24, 2017, 06:16:43 PM »
DC voltage gate/cathode is 0.  frequency 0    AC voltage gate/cathode is .015  frequency 60 HZ. 
Testing done with the 17 watt LUMSING wall adapter as the power source.
....

Hi magnetman,

Thanks for all the measurements.
I requote your earlier measurement results too:
"AC measurement  59.95 HZ  across C1-- .005 volts AC     
AC measurement 59.97 HZ across IN/OUT  -- .005 volts AC" 

I think these measurement results strongly indicate the thyristor is not operating in the setup.
Very probably the low DC level you measured across C1 (around 3.3V) cannot trigger the neon
bulb any more hence the thyristor cannot fire either.  This is my deduction, based on your meter results.

The question arises whether why there is so low DC voltage, 3.3V across capacitor C1?
(You reported 3.3 V in recent reply #105 or even in reply #123 above.)  Is it possible the oscillator cannot charge it up higher?

You may wish to check the AC voltage and the frequency across the collector of
transistor TIP35C and the Common negative rail with your true RMS meter, that would be informative.

(The collector pin of the TIP35C is the middle one out of its three legs and as you surely
know the collector pin is also tied to the heat sink part of the transistor case.)

If you find no AC voltage (or any frequency other than 59.9-60Hz), then check the same
at the transistor base with respect also to the Common negative rail.

Thanks,  Gyula

PS If you find no AC voltage and frequency at the pins of the TIP35C, it may mean that it cannot
oscillate from the 5 V DC input the USB wall adapter provides. 
This may happen, I found for such oscillators the start up may be critical or none at a lower input voltage
than earlier it was from the 12V input.
Maybe this can be solved by readjusting the potmeters for the 5V input while monitoring say the DC level
across C1, it should jump up up from its 3.3 V DC level when the oscillator just begins to oscillate.
Then you can check again the AC voltages and the frequency at the points I mentioned yesterday and today.
Hopefully you can easily access the pins of the TIP35C with your meter probe tip, be careful.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 3.7 VOLT BATTERY POWERS 56 WATTS
« Reply #134 on: April 24, 2017, 06:16:43 PM »

 

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