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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 123176 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1110 on: April 20, 2017, 12:37:14 PM »

Resonance is an interesting subject, we are informed of it being a single frequency phenomena.....blah blah blah.... if we were to really align ourselves with the core message, Tesla's, we would be trying to establish this condition each time the inductance opposes change!  (this is when you are supposed to get up and dance....) This is new territory, uncharted, here who gives a shit about the single sine frequency as it relates to self induction and capacity of the system at the make, and at the break.....it does not apply, hell, capacity and self induction themselves are not what we are taught they are at these key instances!  I have been saying this forever, FUCK SINGLE FREQUENCY RESONANCE CONCEPTS! You people keep listening to the wannabe authorities and are missing the damn point!


Why is it so difficult to stick with what is right in your face....not a question.....fuck a charge....acknowledge and respect the induced and its relation to both self induction and capacity!

You all read the patent....good....you all studied the patent....great...but you are taking it at face value....not good...he gave you a capacitor, that is so fucking obvious....HELLO!!!  But not just any capacitor, this one is off the fucking chain.  Tesla was a master at misdirection, as soon as he gives you a holy shit moment, while he has your undivided attention, he immediately fucks you by instructing you to make a connection between the two plates, he sings you a lullaby, that's right, he sings your lazy asses to sleep as he elaborates on how  fascinating the connection is and how you gain proximity stress.....you take his word for it, wire the capacitor up and operate it like the inductor that it became......you do what he says because hey...it's Tesla...stupid....



As is, the coil is to be operated in an AC system.  The coil as it should have been presented would be operating in a pulsed DC system or an interrupted AC system.   Self induction, capacity and frequency are all related....till they aren't....  We are trained to limit them, they (the aforenamed) don't receive this training.... The LC you are looking for is series, but not for the reasons you are suggesting.  You do not want to neutralize the self induction ( :'(  but Tesla said....LOL.....) you want to neutralize the "negative" effects associated with self induction...lemme grab a straw or two here.......current limiting....maybe....that ties into time constants...maybe....

Erfinder

Your more than welcome to post here,and have your say.
But could you please refrain from using foul language.

Thanks

Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1111 on: April 20, 2017, 01:39:07 PM »
Energy in an Inductor

"When power flows into an inductor, energy is stored in its magnetic field. When the current flowing through the inductor is increasing and di/dt becomes greater than zero, the instantaneous power in the circuit must also be greater than zero, ( P > 0 ) ie, positive which means that energy is being stored in the inductor.

Likewinse, if the current through the inductor is decreasing and di/dt is less than zero then the instantaneous power must also be less than zero, ( P < 0 ) ie, negative which means that the inductor is returning energy back into the circuit. Then by integrating the equation for power above, the total magnetic energy which is always positive, being stored in the inductor is therefore given as":


A Pint is a Pound the World Around:

No it isn't! Some impudent smug snorts. No two things can be the same. We're constantly bombarded by such preposterous inanities.

A pint is equal to a pound in weight. 1 Coulomb is equal to 1 Gauss of magnetic force.

Negative values such as Henries of inductance or current in Ampere's have negative values on our measuring instruments we're forced to assign values to.

A negative Henry is a measure of magnetic force. Negative current is measured as equal to positive current simply moving backwards. These are positive values expressed in the negative range; Not imaginary terms.

Energy stored by an Inductor:

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1112 on: April 20, 2017, 01:42:22 PM »
I wouldnt worry to much about the Energetic  forum to much TK,as we know what that forum is all about  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I will approve synchro's posts,as long as there not direct insults toward fellow members.


Brad

You might also try to prevent him from posting obviously incorrect "math" and spin. Like what he just posted up above, making the error about a negative correlation. An inverse relationship between variables does not mean one of them is negative or an inverse.  He is over his head with even basic algebra and he is still going on and on trying to salvage his false claims about units being equal when they aren't, and the "negative Henry" when he probably means the Inverse Henry H-1 which of course means 1/H NOT -H.

He cannot justify his bogus math and units relationship claims by a posting a proper chain of mathematical expressions, because the claims are false. Making false claims is a violation of the Terms of Service of this forum, and carrying on a "Vendetta" against me is also a violation.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1113 on: April 20, 2017, 01:52:39 PM »
Ignoring the speed of light, it's instantaneous.  However, just because there is 50 volts between two adjacent conductors and there is a measurable transient distributed capacitance between those two conductors does not mean that there is instantly an excess negative charge on one conductor and a lack of negative charge on the other conductor.  Any charge displacement to charge this transient capacitance would still have to flow in the form of current by snaking its way through the spiral conductors, and that means you encounter an inductance to overcome again and the energy to do that has to come from somewhere.  At the same time, the electric field is starting to push current through the coil in a conventional sense and slowly energizes the inductor.  It's very complicated with multiple things going on at the same time and in the realm of supercomputer simulation.

One part of the problem is that the bulk of the electric field flux is snaking its way through the coil and is pointed in the direction of the coil.  That electric field might manifest as a measurable potential on the surface of a conductor, but it is at right angles to any electric field that would be associated with the transient distributed inter-winding capacitance.

So we put a black box around the whole thing because it's too complicated and we just make empirical measurements of the signals that we can measure with our scope and apply our models on that.

I don't know why you want to believe that there is some "hidden magic trick" associated with a bifilar pancake coil.  What Tesla says in his patent is certainly about the reactance of the capacitance cancelling out the reactance of the inductance at resonance.  There are probably about 50 YouTube clips out there that explain this with phasor diagrams.  Phasor diagrams are more intuitive than hard mathematical analysis and you should check them out.

"I don't know why you want to believe that there is some "hidden magic trick" associated with a bifilar pancake coil."

Well I believe it is with bifi in general, not just a pancake coil. 

Ive heard through the grapevine yest that there may very well be a rabbit in the hat that may just come here very soon. Wait for it....  And Im also feeling real good about another possibility that may be even stronger in evidence of the specialty of the bifi coil. Wait for it.....

Also, on my theory, like you said its complicated, so rather than completely refute my idea, lets let testing do the talking. I wont go further into it until I am ready to do the testing. I will describe the test before I do it and variations of which may produce different outcomes. Wait for it....

Mags

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1114 on: April 20, 2017, 01:59:44 PM »
@Tinselkoala,

"A negative correlation means that there is an inverse relationship between two variables".

K is the letter from Kelvin.

Its SI derived unit is the henry (the same as the unit of inductance, although the two concepts are distinct).

I told you the negative Henry was a measure of a magnetic field, now you're trying to teach me my lesson back.

Once again.... the INVERSE Henry 1/H, or H-1, is a measure of magnetic reluctance. It is not a "negative Henry". It is not the same thing as H, even with a negative sign, which is a vector quantity representing the strength of the magnetizing field. The letter H for this field strength was chosen by Lord Kelvin in 1850, probably at random, along with his choice of B. This is not the same thing as the Henry, the unit of inductance. Inductance is NOT THE SAME as field strength, they have different units and one is not the negative or even the inverse of the other.  You can see for yourself that Amperes/Meter, the units of the H field, do not appear anywhere in your listing of units for the Henry, not even negative OR inverse.

A negative correlation has nothing to do with "negative Henry" nor does it imply that one or the other of the correlated variables is "negative". By posting what you have posted you reveal that you do not understand correlation or inverse relationships.


Quote
In 1850, Lord Kelvin, then known as William Thomson, distinguished between two magnetic fields now denoted H and B. The former applied to Poisson's model and the latter to Ampère's model and induction.[9] Further, he derived how H and B relate to each other.
The reason H and B are used for the two magnetic fields has been a source of some debate among science historians. Most agree that Kelvin avoided M to prevent confusion with the SI fundamental unit of length, the Metre, abbreviated "m". Others believe the choices were purely random.[10][11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field#B_and_H


Note the graphic below. Nowhere is a "negative number" used or implied. Negative correlation means as one variable increases the other decreases, and positive correlation means as one variable increases, the other does as well, and when one variable decreases the other variable decreases too. It has nothing to do with negative values of the variables. The _slope_ of the regression line is either positive (positive correlation) or negative (negative correlation).

You really must stop posting your basic math errors and misconceptions.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1114 on: April 20, 2017, 01:59:44 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1115 on: April 20, 2017, 02:23:28 PM »
@nelsonrochaa,

Thanks for the clarification. Consider this:


"Ørsted discovered the connection between magnetism and electric current when a magnetic field produced by a current-carrying copper bar deflected a magnetised needle during a lecture demonstration".


"In the CGS system, the unit of the H-field is the oersted and the unit of the B‑field is the gauss. In the SI system, the unit ampere per meter (A/m), which is equivalent to newton/weber, is used for the H‑field and the unit of tesla is used for the B‑field".

"H is measured in units of amperes per meter (symbol: A⋅m−1 or A/m) in the SI. B is measured in teslas (symbol: T)".


This is what you need to understand: The H field is an electrical equivalent and the B field a magnetic one.

@Tinselkoala,

You see fit to lecture me on the H and B field?

Offline tysb3

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1116 on: April 20, 2017, 06:46:08 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6jBtZ4VPC4

all 6 bif. pancake coils are the same resonance frequency

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1116 on: April 20, 2017, 06:46:08 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1117 on: April 20, 2017, 07:16:35 PM »

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1118 on: April 20, 2017, 08:30:03 PM »
Lenz's Law:

When a magnet approaches a coil, a current runs in one direction and the ammeter registers a plus indicating a positive current. When the magnet's pulled away from the coil, the current runs in the opposite direction and the ammeter registers a negative indicating a reverse or negative current.

Video on "Reluctance":

https://www.coursera.org/learn/electronic-converters/lecture/8MPtI/reluctance-and-magnetic-circuits

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1119 on: April 20, 2017, 08:59:06 PM »
Here we see the negative Henry value on the left, in the "Magnetic Reluctance" equation below. This value is the equivalent of Ohms in the resistance formula on the right and is a measure of magnetic field strength. Naturally, everyone knows the field resists change in current through an inductor and therefore behaves like resistance in the other formula. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1119 on: April 20, 2017, 08:59:06 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1120 on: April 21, 2017, 01:37:36 PM »
Quote from Tinselkoala:

"A negative correlation has nothing to do with "negative Henry" nor does it imply that one or the other of the correlated variables is "negative". By posting what you have posted you reveal that you do not understand correlation or inverse relationships".

Tinselkoala can not find a correlation between the "Inverse Henry" term of magnetic reluctance, and the minus sign that appears before the number on the inductance meter when set to read in Henries. He always couples his misstatements with some kind of personal insult. (He's revealing his stupidity again) to help make his malarkey stick.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1121 on: April 21, 2017, 03:23:35 PM »
Im getting tired of threads being trashed to the point of no discussion at all.

Over at OUR they give the ability to have private discussions where only welcome people are invited. It works well with keeping a thread clean. But some say it stifles free speech. 

Well if you owned a corporation and you have weekly business meetings with say 10 top people in the company, you would not allow a group of protesters to come in and run amuck. It would have nothing to do with free speech as everyone has rights and reasons for privacy. And in this case, the business meeting, we are in that same territory. We have better things to do with our time than deal with protestors. If some dont like the private thread ability, too bad, we dont have to tell you anything. The threads can be also read only for others where protestors can have their opposition thread to babble among themselves, and if the private/read only players 'want' and 'need' to go to that alternate thread to have battle, then so beit, I dont care..

I am talking with others about seeing if Stefan can provide the read only and or private threads so that real work is not interrupted, and the protesters can have their venue to say what they want to say without it being disruptive in the 'work' threads. If it is a private thread and something comes of value from it, then all persons involved in that thread should take a vote as to open a new thread that shows the progress, but have it as read only, where yet again, protestors can have their own rebuttal and abuse delivery threads, fine, sure, go ahead.  So just like a family talking privately at home, all the way to a top gov meeting, we are all entitled to privacy at times, and I do not see that to be a problem in having that here if we want.  If some do not like that idea, then they must not like the idea of having PM abilities, of which is private. So what would be the issue in having private threads when really we could have completely private talks just like a thread in pm, but a thread is just better for many reasons.

Mags

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1122 on: April 21, 2017, 03:47:33 PM »
Im getting tired of threads being trashed to the point of no discussion at all.

Over at OUR they give the ability to have private discussions where only welcome people are invited. It works well with keeping a thread clean. But some say it stifles free speech. 

Well if you owned a corporation and you have weekly business meetings with say 10 top people in the company, you would not allow a group of protesters to come in and run amuck. It would have nothing to do with free speech as everyone has rights and reasons for privacy. And in this case, the business meeting, we are in that same territory. We have better things to do with our time than deal with protestors. If some dont like the private thread ability, too bad, we dont have to tell you anything. The threads can be also read only for others where protestors can have their opposition thread to babble among themselves, and if the private/read only players 'want' and 'need' to go to that alternate thread to have battle, then so beit, I dont care..

I am talking with others about seeing if Stefan can provide the read only and or private threads so that real work is not interrupted, and the protesters can have their venue to say what they want to say without it being disruptive in the 'work' threads. If it is a private thread and something comes of value from it, then all persons involved in that thread should take a vote as to open a new thread that shows the progress, but have it as read only, where yet again, protestors can have their own rebuttal and abuse delivery threads, fine, sure, go ahead.  So just like a family talking privately at home, all the way to a top gov meeting, we are all entitled to privacy at times, and I do not see that to be a problem in having that here if we want.  If some do not like that idea, then they must not like the idea of having PM abilities, of which is private. So what would be the issue in having private threads when really we could have completely private talks just like a thread in pm, but a thread is just better for many reasons.

Mags

@Magluvin,

There are people on this web site, yourself included, who don't understand basic formulas and laws, or choose to twist and misstate them. The rest of us can't accept this level of ignorance coupled with 'High Fashion" technical arguments. It's our duty to expose you as frauds.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1123 on: April 21, 2017, 04:39:32 PM »
@Magluvin,

There are people on this web site, yourself included, who don't understand basic formulas and laws, or choose to twist and misstate them. The rest of us can't accept this level of ignorance coupled with 'High Fashion" technical arguments. It's our duty to expose you as frauds.

I approved this post above to reply to it publicly...

First off, it is mostly you who is saying that we dont understand this stuff. I dont see others agreeing with you here, its just you. You are not building anything to show and prove what you know. You just repeat day after day the same thing. What is that? Are you afraid that if you only wrote it once that nobody will see it?  After 50 times, still worried that nobody has noticed you? As for me, I am not sure that all of the laws and ideals are absolutely correct, so I dont hold them all as gold, otherwise it would be just a "move on folks, nothing more to see here' life. If they are, then this site is here just for giggles and wasted time. You are on moderation. And if you keep it up, as I can see every post before approval, I will do all I can to keep you moderated. There really isnt anyone here that I can see in agreement with your daily splatter.

You say there is fraud. You are only posting cut and paste. Woopty doo. Is that all you got? Do you have bench experience of what you declare as truth? If not then you dont have anything but cut and paste then its worth squat. Like reading a book on kung fu then saying you know kung fu. This isnt the matrix.  So you go ahead and keep posting as you wish, nobody is going to see them.

Mags

Offline webby1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1124 on: April 21, 2017, 05:02:21 PM »
Im getting tired of threads being trashed to the point of no discussion at all.

Over at OUR they give the ability to have private discussions where only welcome people are invited. It works well with keeping a thread clean. But some say it stifles free speech. 

Mags

How about having the threads as read only but the OP of the thread can "allow" or "deny" posting on a user or global basis,, this leaving the need for a moderator to remove any unwanted posts.

I think this would keep the intent of an open community in tact and then using PM you can still have the "closed" discussion when needed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1124 on: April 21, 2017, 05:02:21 PM »

 

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