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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 573610 times)

evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #330 on: April 02, 2017, 04:57:32 PM »
Lighting led and neon with one hand ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEZSCNHDYJs

Nelson Rocha
good to see your videos nelson!
im still curious for the Levitating aluminium foil.

forest

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Zephir

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    • Reddit about Aether Wave Theory

NRamaswami

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #333 on: April 02, 2017, 09:28:29 PM »
Forest Sir

I think you all miss the point here.

My knowledge is very low and so if I make mistakes please advise.

I think this wireless transmission of electricity is based on resonant capacitive coupling. Within the area of influence of the transmitter any device that resonates with the transmitter can be coupled to it and it would work to produce output. The area of influence of transmitter can be increased by using repeaters at proper distances.

However if resonant capacitive coupling is achieved in theory each resonantly coupled  device must produce output. This is how radio stations work.

I understand that one such emitter should be able to power 1000 devices each with an efficiency of 50 to 60% but the sum total of all would be far in Excess of energy consumption of transmitter.

The key to do this resonance coupling.

I have seen that one type of lamps are resontly coupled and light up without any wire being connected to them. but it can be explained as capacitive coupling.

Another type of lamp does not light up for it is not showing resonant capacitive coupling.

Let me test some time whether I can light up lamps that would need 1000 watts normally from the grid  would wirelessly light up with just 440 watts of input. If they do then we are one step further in to this area. But will it work or won't we need to test and see.

All of you have different perspective of how an Elephant would like and disagree with each other when no one appears to have seen an Elephant in the first place. This is the problem.

Unfortunately it only resulted in a shouting match.
No useful knowledge is being transmitted to lay people like me.

Regards

Ramaswami


MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #334 on: April 02, 2017, 10:37:00 PM »
Single-wire transmission line - Wikipedia, more background

Here is the critical quote from the Wikipedia theory section:

At much higher frequencies, however, it is possible for the return circuit (which would normally be connected through a second wire) to utilize the self- and parasitic capacitance of a large conductive object, perhaps the housing of the load itself.

TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #335 on: April 02, 2017, 11:10:28 PM »
The original question was, which current direction generates the collapsing magnetic field of coil. This direction is the opposite to the current, which created this magnetic field.


Are you sure you don't mean "the collapsing magnetic field generates which current direction"? Regardless of your scrambled verbiage (I realize English isn't your first language) .... now you may please explain why and how the LED flashes in my video demonstration.



What's that I hear? Sound of crickets chirping....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X66foYixu9Y

TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #336 on: April 02, 2017, 11:14:16 PM »
WireLESS power transmission, no capacitive coupling involved:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-hl2W86yk

Note bulb can be  _brighter_  when powered wirelessly than when connected directly to the battery powering the wireless transmitter.

NRamaswami

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #337 on: April 02, 2017, 11:41:49 PM »
I have to beg to disagree based on my observations.

I agree that light can be made to be brighter wirelessly than when connected to the grid. That part is correct by observations.

However I have checked with a 40 watts tube light and it glows only up to the part where my hand catches it near the receiver coil. The feet wearing rubber slippers are on an insulated copper plate connected to earth. As I moved the hand further tube glows till hand is touching the light.

However if I just place the tube light between the two aerials one of them is transmitter and other receiver the Whole tube glows. In your video posted you use a tiny lamp and so you are not able to observe it but capacitance is through your body.

This is not really important. The real thing is how do we find out resonance or calculate it. If we can create something that is resonant with cosmic rays then we have electricity to be generated any where and everywhere at any time.

Your ring is very low power for you need to go very close to it to make wireless transmission to happen.
That can be very easily improved.

Regards

Ramaswami


Quote from: TinselKoala
  link=topic=17186.msg503045#msg503045 date=1491167656
WireLESS power transmission, no capacitive coupling involved:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-hl2W86yk

Note bulb can be  _brighter_  when powered wirelessly than when connected directly to the battery powering the wireless transmitter.

nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #338 on: April 02, 2017, 11:43:32 PM »
Sure I would be happy to explain this to you again.  Typically high-frequency voltage travels down the single wire.  However, with no current flow you cannot transfer any AC power into the load.  So the question is how do you get current to flow when there is no apparent current loop in the circuit?  As we know, for current to flow, there must be a loop.

We also know that there exists so-called "stray" (a.k.a. parasitic) capacitance everywhere.  A capacitor is just two conducting plates separated by a distance.  Let's look at a trivial example.  Suppose you are outside in your back yard.  Let's say there is an insulating plastic lawn chair that you are sitting in and your feet are not touching the ground.  We know that the ground is conductive and there is always some moisture in the ground that helps it become more conductive.  We also know the human body is basically salty water, and so the human body is conductive.

Therefore, when you sit on an insulating plastic chair in your back yard with your feet not touching the ground we can say that there is a measurable capacitance between your body and the ground.  It may be very small, perhaps 100 pF, but it is there and it is measurable.  In reality, there is stray or parasitic capacitance everywhere.

It is this stray capacitance that allows AC current to conduct in a current loop that allows for so-called "single wire power transmission."

Here is a typical circuit current loop:

<earth ground> ---> <stray capacitor #1> ---> <high frequency AC signal generator> ---> <load> ---> <stray capacitor #2> ---> <back to earth ground>

When you do a "single wire power transmission" experiment there are typically two "invisible" stray capacitors that allow AC current to flow.  Therefore the load sees both voltage and current and therefore AC power gets transferred into the load.  Small neon lights and LEDs require very little power to light up and that's why you often see them lit in experiments like this.

This is a fairly straightforward concept that should be understood by people interested in experimenting with electronics.


I'm impressed with such detail of explanation !
Thanks,  I will apply that to my future work . I'm feel fascinating, and for sure is a  straightforward concept that i need learn .
Thanks MH for your contribution :)


Nelson Rocha

TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #339 on: April 03, 2017, 12:37:46 AM »
I have to beg to disagree based on my observations.
You may disagree, but your observations apparently are not of my system, and your preconceptions are causing you to draw incorrect conclusions.
Quote

I agree that light can be made to be brighter wirelessly than when connected to the grid. That part is correct by observations.
The system I demonstrated in that video is not connected to the grid in any way. It is simply powered by a single 12 volt SLA battery of 7 A-H capacity.
The bulb is a standard automotive dome light bulb.
Quote

However I have checked with a 40 watts tube light and it glows only up to the part where my hand catches it near the receiver coil. The feet wearing rubber slippers are on an insulated copper plate connected to earth. As I moved the hand further tube glows till hand is touching the light.

However if I just place the tube light between the two aerials one of them is transmitter and other receiver the Whole tube glows. In your video posted you use a tiny lamp and so you are not able to observe it but capacitance is through your body.

The bulb I used is an incandescent bulb, not a "tube light" or fluorescent light. The system is an electromagnetically coupled system, does not depend on the electric field and there is no capacitance involved in the power transmission itself. It works regardless of whether my hand is involved or not. In the case of the video demonstration above I simply held the receiver and bulb in my hand for convenience so that it would be easy and unambiguous to tell that I made no "tricks" just connected the bulb directly to the battery, and then to the wireless receiver without making any changes.

Quote


This is not really important.


On the contrary. It is very important that experiments and demonstrations be correctly interpreted. Perhaps it is my fault for not including a voiceover explanation in that video.

Quote
The real thing is how do we find out resonance or calculate it. If we can create something that is resonant with cosmic rays then we have electricity to be generated any where and everywhere at any time.

The demonstrated system is doubly resonant. The transmitter uses a self-resonating circuit that automatically attains resonance in the L-C output circuit and maintains it. The receiver uses another LC circuit (made of only one capacitor and the "antenna loop") tuned to the correct frequency of the transmitter. We "find out" resonance by using test equipment such as oscilloscopes, and we "calculate" resonance based on component values and a few well-known and well-studied mathematical equations. But you know this already.

The power density of cosmic rays at the Earth's surface is actually quite small, thank goodness. The atmosphere and the Earth's magnetic field protect us from most of the power streaming at us from space, which is a good thing because otherwise life would have a hard time existing here on Earth.

Quote
Your ring is very low power for you need to go very close to it to make wireless transmission to happen.
That can be very easily improved.


That much, at least, you have correct. I am demonstrating a low power system in the close quarters of my bedroom laboratory, using a small 12 volt battery as the power source.

Quote
Regards

Ramaswami

NRamaswami

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #340 on: April 03, 2017, 02:20:05 AM »
TK

Unfortunately I have neither the equipment nor the theoretical knowledge to calculate resonance on my own. I have replicated a device already built and described and found it provided resonance. So without the knowledge I am unable to respond. You are a Tesla fan but when you say cosmic rays are weak are you not contradicting Tesla Radiant energy patent. For that was the next experiment I wanted to do.

Is not electromagnetic coupling inferior to electric coupling as distance of coupling would be greatly reduced? Could you please give your insight on that.
Thanks


TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #341 on: April 03, 2017, 11:29:20 PM »
TK

Unfortunately I have neither the equipment nor the theoretical knowledge to calculate resonance on my own. I have replicated a device already built and described and found it provided resonance. So without the knowledge I am unable to respond.

If you don't have the equipment or the theoretical knowledge, how do you know that your device is actually "providing resonance" ?

Quote
You are a Tesla fan but when you say cosmic rays are weak are you not contradicting Tesla Radiant energy patent. For that was the next experiment I wanted to do.

By all means perform the experiment yourself. No, I am not contradicting Tesla's patent, I am just pointing out that you won't be able to get much power from it, as there isn't very much real power from cosmic rays or the solar wind available at the surface of the Earth.

You may be interested to know that I have actual "photographs" of cosmic rays. Or at least photos of the trails produced by cosmic rays in my sensitive astrophotograpy camera which uses a cooled charge-coupled device (CCD) imager. It's a good thing there aren't more of them because it would really screw up the photos of astronomical objects and events. Not to mention wreaking havoc with DNA in living organisms.

Quote
Is not electromagnetic coupling inferior to electric coupling as distance of coupling would be greatly reduced? Could you please give your insight on that.
Thanks

It depends on what you mean by "inferior". For example over the past couple of years we are starting to see more and more wireless charging and power transfer systems from commercial manufacturers like Apple. These are all electromagnetic. The problem with using the electric field, as you may have already found out yourself, is that when sufficient power is applied for longer range, almost everything in the environment becomes a "receiver". I think Tesla found this out, you have seen it no doubt, and even Eric Dollard discovered it for himself. With high-power electric field systems you get fluorescent and neon bulbs lighting up all over the place, sensitive components in devices like computers start to fail, people get shocked, metal shelving and metal chassis start spraying corona... it can be a real problem. With electromagnetic coupling you need tuned receivers (which can be very simple as I've shown) and yes, it does work best at relatively close range. Surround a room or a garage with the transmitting loop, or embed it in the concrete floor and you can transfer large amounts of power safely and under control, and only your tuned receivers will be able to pick it up. You can't do that with powerful electric fields.

 

NRamaswami

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #342 on: April 04, 2017, 12:08:38 AM »
Thanks TK

You seem to be amazingly well funded  and no dispute a lot of knowledge to match it.

I had been careful with using very weak electric fields to start with. The receiver coil connected to earth lights up a fluorescent lamp or Long straight tube light of 40 watts when it is brought near the unpowered receiver coil. Without resonance this is not possible. We do not need devices or calculations to understand this.

On electric fields I think we are yet to replicate nature which provides safe healthy terahertz visible spectrum. Only if we create very high voltage and relatively lower range frequencies compared to visible spectrum we have the problems you indicated. We would need particle size receivers to be resonant with it.

Wireless electromagnetic coupling can potentially increase the risk of deadly diseases. Cancer was extremely rare in India 40 years back. We have a lot today. Situation in Countries like US is said to be far worse. Has there been safety studies on wireless electromagnetic coupling done? 

On cosmic rays I beg to differ. While you are correct in the power of them as received they can be easily amplified. Tesla's patent does not talk about the amplification part which is otherwise common sense.

I believe that there is at least one member here who possibly might have done the Daniel McFarland Cook device which is said to produce unlimited DC output. Such
Such devices if controlled properly are quite safe.

Regards

Ramaswami

tomd

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #343 on: April 04, 2017, 04:40:57 AM »
There is a guy from Brazil - Gerson Paiva - who has a number of patents (attached) for free energy devices which work on the principle of muon capture to produce energy. In 2007 he was a doctoral student at the Federal University of Pernambuco where he was involved in the investigation of ball lightning. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/01/070122-ball-lightning.html

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmsg5LpGICV-jgJ2P1UirMg


MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #344 on: April 04, 2017, 06:46:03 AM »
Okay no takers on the self-resonant flywheel being a direct mechanical analog to the self-resonant coil.  So let's review it.

Rotational inertia is equivalent to inductance.  So it is rotational self-springiness that would be equivalent to the self-capacitance of the coil.

So how do we model that?  When you think of a flywheel, you think of a very solid disk of metal, say like a metal weight you put on a barbell.  Instead of that, let's imagine a much thinner metal disk, say something like the proportions of a cutting saw blade in a table saw.  Let's make the diameter larger also, say about one meter.

So, we are going to find the self-resonant frequency of a large and thin metal disk flywheel.  There is a certain amount of rotational springiness in that flywheel, if you put a brake on the outer edge of the flywheel and applied twisting torque on the center, the center wold twist a slight amount.

So you mount the flywheel on a shaft in a test system.  The test system can apply torque to the shaft in the form of an AC sine wave that can vary in intensity and frequency.  That is the equivalent to an external voltage source exciting the coil.

You start off by setting the applied torque on the flywheel as a one-hertz sine wave where the torque varies back and forth between a clockwise (CW) peak of 500 newton-meters and a counterclockwise (CCW) peak of 500 newton-meters.  You observe the flywheel rotating CW and then CCW at one hertz.  You also notice that the velocity of the rotating flywheel is exactly 90 degrees behind the applied torque to the flywheel, which is exactly how an inductor works for the relationship between the applied voltage and resulting current flow.  The two behave in exactly the same way.

You slowly increase the frequency of the CW + CCW torque to the flywheel and observe the flywheel rotating CW and then CCW where the velocity of the rotation is still 90 degrees behind the applied torque.  However, you notice that as you increase the frequency of the applied torque the total back-and forth angular displacement of the flywheel is decreasing.

When you apply a 200 Hz torque waveform to the flywheel, you can't even see the flywheel moving anymore.  At a 300 Hz AC torque, the flywheel appears to be perfectly still and not moving.  Apply a 400 Hz AC torque signal and the same thing, no apparent response at all from the flywheel.

But, at 497 Hz you hear a slight ringing from the flywheel but you still can't see any movement.  But all hell breaks loose at 500 Hz.  At 500 Hz you hear an incredibly loud ringing sound coming from the flywheel.  You look at the shaft and you can see the shaft is moving CW + CCW at 500 Hz.  You can see a small noticeable CW + CCW rotation at the outer edge of the flywheel.  But the most noticeable thing is the incredibly loud ringing sound filling the room.

You change the AC torque applied to the flywheel shaft to 503 Hz and you are back to hearing a slight ringing.  At 510 Hz, the shaft appears to have stopped moving and the flywheel emits no sound and it is back to looking like it is not moving at all.

So the flywheel had a self-resonant frequency of 500 Hz which was based on the rotational springiness of the flywheel interacting with the moment of inertial (rotational mass) of the flywheel.