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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 114625 times)

Offline evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2017, 01:29:41 AM »
Hi Evostar,
The two compass are static even before i start feed the circuit because the needles are in their normal position .
You could see too, after i approach the magnet they change their position under the strong magnetic field of magnet but  they return to their normal position even far way outside of coil .  At minute 1:18 i put one of compass under the wire that feed the load (bulb) and their position should change  but needle not change in their position .

I will try next week making new video to show that and aluminum foil levitate .

cheers

Indeed I rewatched it. I didnt remember it correctly. my fault.

Usually when I check for the magnetic field with dc, I put 2 amps into the coil (as the magnetic field induction is dependend on the amps, not the volts).

I would love to see that foil video :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2017, 09:23:20 AM »
You don't need anything fancy to levitate or repel plates of non-ferrous metals with AC. Just a Variac plugged into the wall and a suitable heavy electromagnet coil will do it. And you can levitate all kinds of stuff, conductive or not (aluminum foil, paper, styrofoam, plastic balls, etc) with HVDC.


Offline pomodoro

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2017, 02:24:38 PM »
Anyone tried making an electromagnet?, Some internet sites claim tesla's bilfilar winding with the same number of turns makes for a much stronger pull, lifting way more paperclips. Since its DC operated it cant have anything to do with resonance or extra capacitance. I'll give it a go soon myself cause you can't trust all the creeps out there,  but if true, what would be the reasoning behind its extra performance with I'm assuming the same current?

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2017, 04:14:42 PM »
Anyone tried making an electromagnet?, Some internet sites claim tesla's bilfilar winding with the same number of turns makes for a much stronger pull, lifting way more paperclips. Since its DC operated it cant have anything to do with resonance or extra capacitance. I'll give it a go soon myself cause you can't trust all the creeps out there,  but if true, what would be the reasoning behind its extra performance with I'm assuming the same current?

Pomodoro,

Tesla bifilar coils have twice the inductance of single wire coils of the same gauge and copper weight; This means that the bifilar has the potential to generate twice the magnetic field strength at the cost of double the power. Increasing input two times to the single wire coil would melt the insulation, not increase magnetic field strength.

Measuring field strength between the two types of coils with an input less then or equal to half the double strength produces no difference between the magnetic fields.

I performed the two types of coils test with iorn nail cores and paper clips. One nail will generate twice the permanent magnetic field strength if you saturate both coils. The bifilar will pick up twice the paper clips; However, the bifilar coil eats up twice the power. I tried to make sense of this to Conradelectro, Milehigh and Tinselkoala all three of whom stubbornly ran tests of undercharged coils that deflected compass needles the same amount with the same input. I told them hundreds of times to fully charge the bifilar to test for the double strength, but I could never get anyone to pay attention to me. The additional inductance is a product of "Mutual Coupling", like Flynn's "Phanthom Magnet".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mxtwS2OsaA&t=5s


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2017, 05:29:17 PM »
Back to your old pattern of misrepresenting my work and that of others, I see.

Pomodoro, I encourage you to do your own testing of the claims made by synchro1.

Quote
The bifilar will pick up twice the paper clips; However, the bifilar coil eats up twice the power.
  Insert ROFL image here.

"eats up" ? You mean that you _fed_ the bifilar coil with twice the power of the monofilar coil in order to get it to pick up more paper clips. You did this by increasing the voltage supplied, which in turn increased the current through the coil. DUH... of COURSE you will get a stronger field in this case.

With the _SAME_ current fed to both coils they will both have the same magnetic field produced and will pick up the same number of paper clips. Of course using iron/steel nails for this moronic test will skew your results because you are magnetizing the nails themselves, and probably also your paper clips.



 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2017, 05:29:17 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2017, 05:40:10 PM »
Back to your old pattern of misrepresenting my work and that of others, I see.

Pomodoro, I encourage you to do your own testing of the claims made by synchro1.
  Insert ROFL image here.

"eats up" ? You mean that you _fed_ the bifilar coil with twice the power of the monofilar coil in order to get it to pick up more paper clips. You did this by increasing the voltage supplied, which in turn increased the current through the coil. DUH... of COURSE you will get a stronger field in this case.

With the _SAME_ current fed to both coils they will both have the same magnetic field produced and will pick up the same number of paper clips. Of course using iron/steel nails for this moronic test will skew your results because you are magnetizing the nails themselves, and probably also your paper clips.

Look at my hex nut and Leedskalnin locking videos. Snap charge and pulse magnetization is a natural event. Twice the current spontaneously jumps from the battery into the bifilar when the electrodes swipe the battery terminals and the iron nail core instantly maqgnetizes to twice the strength of the single wire core. The bifilar really pops compared to the single wire coil. You yourself mention the effect in your bifilar to single wire coil comparison video, and it's clearly visible to the viewer.

My advice to you Mr. Hogwallow, is to measure the inductance in Henries of both the bifilar and the single wire pancake coils with an inductance meter and see for yourself what the difference is.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2017, 06:03:08 PM »
Quote
Tesla bifilar coils have twice the inductance of single wire coils of the same gauge and copper weight

This is FALSE.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2017, 06:03:08 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2017, 06:05:14 PM »
Look at my hex nut and Leedskalnin locking videos. Snap charge and pulse magnetization is a natural event. Twice the current spontaneously jumps from the battery into the bifilar when the electrodes swipe the battery terminals and the iron nail core instantly maqgnetizes to twice the strength of the single wire core. The bifilar really pops compared to the single wire coil. You yourself mention the effect in your bifilar to single wire coil comparison video, and it's clearly visible to the viewer.

My advice to you Mr. Hogwallow, is to measure the inductance in Henries of both the bifilar and the single wire pancake coils with an inductance meter and see for yourself what the difference is.

Still misrepresenting my work. And I've made the measurements, as you can see.

Take your own advice and do the measurements yourself... which you have clearly never done.

"swipe the battery terminals".... that's laughable. You have no idea what current you are putting into your coils or whether you are equalizing conditions. You really need to learn how to do experiments properly and how to MAKE MEASUREMENTS instead of spouting nonsense.

Offline evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2017, 06:42:37 PM »
Anyone tried making an electromagnet?, Some internet sites claim tesla's bilfilar winding with the same number of turns makes for a much stronger pull, lifting way more paperclips. Since its DC operated it cant have anything to do with resonance or extra capacitance. I'll give it a go soon myself cause you can't trust all the creeps out there,  but if true, what would be the reasoning behind its extra performance with I'm assuming the same current?
Yes the field is stronger. Also, with a DC measurement, the resistance is differnent compared to a normal coil. This video shows it clearly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAZ6heorEc

Tesla explains it in his patent (512340):
In electric apparatus or systems in which alternating currents are employed the self-induction of the coils or conductors may, and, in fact, in many cases does operate disadvantageously by giving rise to false currents which often reduce what is known as the commercial efficiency of the apparatus composing the system or operate detrimentally in other respects. The effects of self-induction, above referred to, are known to be neutralized by proportioning to a proper degree the capacity of the circuit with relation to the self-induction and frequency of the currents. This has been accomplished heretofore by the use of condensers constructed and applied as separate instruments.

My present invention has for its object to avoid the employment of condensers which are expensive, cumbersome and difficult to maintain in perfect condition, and to so construct the coils themselves as to accomplish the same ultimate object.

end of tesla quote

To me this says the bifilar coil, is dodging lenz law (which isnt a law, but a observation)

Offline evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2017, 06:58:45 PM »
@ tinselkoala & sychro1
The Bifilar (pancake) coil is mostly different in the capacitance, between the windings.

 Its about the stronger dielectric field.

The difference of the magnetic field strength comes from the absence of the Lenz "law" effect, that in a normal coil gives a counteracting magnetic force, weakening the field (eating power). The dielectric field prevents this action (according to teslas patent as citated before)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2017, 06:58:45 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2017, 07:10:23 PM »
"absence of lenz law effect"




I almost lost a kidney






Offline evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2017, 07:12:10 PM »
Hi Evostars,
The two compass are static even before i start feed the circuit because the needles are in their normal position .
You could see too, after i approach the magnet they change their position under the strong magnetic field of magnet but  they return to their normal position even far way outside of coil .  At minute 1:18 i put one of compass under the wire that feed the load (bulb) and their position should change  but needle not change in their position .

I rewatched it a few more times. It really has no magnetic field. It is differnt from what i am used to.  I wonder how you energise you coils. It looks you use a pulse generator, with a half bridge mosfet pulse driver, correct? one mosfet for the up ramp, and one for the down ramp of the pulse signal?

I also looked at your bifilar pancake coils. It looks like the 2 windings are on top of eachother (instead of next to eachother), like a roll of speaker wire. Is that correct? Two pancakes on top of eachother, connected in series?

That could explain alot, as the capacitance it then 90 degrees rotated (in between the 2 coils on top of eachother, connected in series)
 I Think im going to try that myself :)  It seems that the magnetic field and the dielectric are not phase related (vectors) anymore, but also at a 90 degree angle.



Offline evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2017, 07:13:15 PM »
"absence of lenz law effect"

I almost lost a kidney
Good you have 2 of them!


Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2017, 07:56:30 PM »
Yes the field is stronger. Also, with a DC measurement, the resistance is differnent compared to a normal coil. This video shows it clearly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAZ6heorEc

Ooh is that TheOldScientist clip ever cringeworthy.  He shows a difference in DC resistance between a regular coil and a bifilar coil where both coils are supposed to have the same total wire length and DC resistance.  He acknowledges this apparent anomaly that does not make sense but then simply moves on and accepts the measurement.  One possible explanation is that he has an accidental short in one of the two half-coils that make up the bifilar coil.  There is no way you should look at a measurement that you know is wrong and accept it.

But the super cringeworthyness comes up when you see his jagged scope traces and the complete ragged mess of a scope trace at the end of his clip.  He makes no comment about that issue.  He may have been feeding a square wave into his coils under test which would be a mortal sin and a great display of ignorance.  However, I can't be sure about that, I don't know the true reason for the jagged scope traces.  However, what I do know is that he should have been observing near-perfect sine waves on his scope trace.  The fact that he is not seeing sine waves is telling you that something is seriously wrong.  Either way it is a lose for TheOldScientist.

Sorry, but I personally have very low confidence in TheOldScientist.  He is free energy clickbait.

Finally, the strength of the magnetic field generated by a coil is derived from the ampere-turns.  A regular coll and a bifilar coil where both coils have the same number of turns will generate a magnetic field of the same strength.  This is hard knowledge that is carved in stone and can easily be verified with proper measurements.  The user Conradelectro did the experiment himself and posted his clips.  So that is one myth about the bifilar coil that is not true.

MileHigh


Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2017, 08:13:37 PM »
Tesla explains it in his patent (512340):
In electric apparatus or systems in which alternating currents are employed the self-induction of the coils or conductors may, and, in fact, in many cases does operate disadvantageously by giving rise to false currents which often reduce what is known as the commercial efficiency of the apparatus composing the system or operate detrimentally in other respects. The effects of self-induction, above referred to, are known to be neutralized by proportioning to a proper degree the capacity of the circuit with relation to the self-induction and frequency of the currents. This has been accomplished heretofore by the use of condensers constructed and applied as separate instruments.

My present invention has for its object to avoid the employment of condensers which are expensive, cumbersome and difficult to maintain in perfect condition, and to so construct the coils themselves as to accomplish the same ultimate object.

end of tesla quote

To me this says the bifilar coil, is dodging lenz law (which isnt a law, but a observation)

For the Tesla bifilar coil patent you have to take early twentieth century English and translate it into modern technical English.   The "false currents" are excessive current flowing in the wires because of low power factor for a device or machine that has mains-fed electrical coils.  He is saying that his bifilar coil incorporates the power factor correction capacitance within the coil itself.  This is to reduce costs because apparently in the early twentieth century capacitors were expensive and not in commercial production.

Just search on "using capacitors to correct power factor."

Here is a good link from that search that gives you the full number crunching:

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-11/practical-power-factor-correction/

I seriously doubt that bifilar pancake coils were ever used in some kind of AC mains powered device or machine to correct for the power factor for the device or machine.  I view this as a purely academic exercise where Tesla filed the patent in case somehow bifilar coils made it into a useful electrical machine.

All of this has nothing to do with "dodging Lenz's Law."

MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2017, 08:13:37 PM »

 

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