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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 138257 times)

synchro1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3091
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1575 on: May 09, 2017, 05:40:39 PM »
I have two projects on my test bench right now; Let me start with the math:

Xee2 has a series bifilar and a single wire coil of equal turns on two identical high perm cores.

The single wire coil measures 15.9 Milli-Henrys and the bifilar 16.8 Milli-Henrys of inductance.

We know that it takes 3600 Joules per second to generate 1 Tesla of magnetic force in a coil of 1 Henry of inductance, and that 1 Tesla is equal to 10,000 Gauss; Therefore:

16.8 mH divided by 10,000 equals 168 Gauss for the bifilar and 159 Gauss for the single wire at the following power input:

10,000 divided by 3600 equals 2.777. Multiplied by 168 Gauss equals 466.6 Joules per second or 466.6 Watts.

Multiplying the single wire Gauss by the same factor equals 441.5 watts.

Deducting the the 441.5 from the 466.6 gives us 25.1 watts.

So, the gain factor for the bifilar over the single wire coil with the high perm ferrite core is 25.1 watts. That's the power we would save to generate a magnetic field of identical force with the series bifilar wrap over the single wire coil of equal windings.

Bistander maintains the 5% difference in inductance measured by Xee2 between the series bifilar and single wire coil of equal turns and wire gauge is a result of the connection between the two bifilar coils. He may be correct, but the single wire coil has no way to benefit from this advantage, and clearly demonstrates a "Marked Difference" between the two types of coils!

"I made the point that a more tightly wound coil would generate a stronger field than a sloppily wound coil of equal wire gauge and turns for the same input. Lets say the difference in inductance was 5%. We could equal the strength of the sloppy coil with the tight coil by reducing the input by 5%, right?

Lets say we feed 10 watts into both coils: We would gain 1/2 watt in savings, right? 100 watts would result in 5 watts savings and 500 watts would result in 25 watts savings, got it?

My power input calculations result in a savings of that amount with that amount of difference in inductance between the two types of coils. You say I divided when I should have multiplied. Your approach would throw the answer off in the wrong direction by an "Astronomical Parsec".

I was asked for a simple explanation: Greater inductance results greater efficiency, got it"?

Bistander complained the coils were not wrapped on the same core. I'm replicating Xee2's test with the two types of coils on the same core right now, and have finished the two wraps and am currently testing for accuracy.

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1575 on: May 09, 2017, 05:40:39 PM »

synchro1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3091
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1576 on: May 09, 2017, 11:49:53 PM »
Here's a digital still shot of my two types of coils on the high perm ferrite rod, along with my magnifying glass holder and "VICI" inductance meter registering 27 degrees Centigrade on the temperature scale. That's 80.6 degrees Fahrenheit, about perfect!

Magluvin

• Moderator
• Hero Member
• Posts: 5668
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1577 on: May 10, 2017, 12:34:08 AM »
Bistander maintains the 5% difference in inductance measured by Xee2 between the series bifilar and single wire coil of equal turns and wire gauge is a result of the connection between the two bifilar coils. He may be correct, but the single wire coil has no way to benefit from this advantage, and clearly demonstrates a "Marked Difference" between the two types of coils!

"I made the point that a more tightly wound coil would generate a stronger field than a sloppily wound coil of equal wire gauge and turns for the same input. Lets say the difference in inductance was 5%. We could equal the strength of the sloppy coil with the tight coil by reducing the input by 5%, right?

Lets say we feed 10 watts into both coils: We would gain 1/2 watt in savings, right? 100 watts would result in 5 watts savings and 500 watts would result in 25 watts savings, got it?

My power input calculations result in a savings of that amount with that amount of difference in inductance between the two types of coils. You say I divided when I should have multiplied. Your approach would throw the answer off in the wrong direction by an "Astronomical Parsec".

I was asked for a simple explanation: Greater inductance results greater efficiency, got it"?

Bistander complained the coils were not wrapped on the same core. I'm replicating Xee2's test with the two types of coils on the same core right now, and have finished the two wraps and am currently testing for accuracy.

Hey Sync
What are we measuring the inductance with to see the difference or is it a calculated value? Seems most are getting the same value but 5% could be possibly nicked off as they are really close sooo.  But if that little difference no matter what % is mostly more for the bifi then you may have something. But is there any advantage to the small increase of inductance in the bifi?

Mags

Magluvin

• Moderator
• Hero Member
• Posts: 5668
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1578 on: May 10, 2017, 12:39:00 AM »
Sync, can u post a circuit from Bistander? Im just wondering what he is doing

Mags

synchro1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3091
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1579 on: May 10, 2017, 01:09:52 AM »
Mags,

My test measurements are .35 mH for the single wire coil and .38  mH for the series bifilar  on the same high perm ferrite core;. This is very close to the ratio measurement I got between the two air core coils, around 10%. Both these measurements were made with my Vici inductance meter pictured above with the coils and magnifier. This is a brand new meter with a fully charged battery!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 09:29:42 PM by synchro1 »

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1579 on: May 10, 2017, 01:09:52 AM »

ramset

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6102
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1580 on: May 10, 2017, 02:28:30 AM »
since this is Evostars thread and Allen took part in him leaving here [his own thread]with rude behavior [which Allen [synchro1] is Now moderated by Stefan for]
here is what evostar wrote to Allen when he pulled the same nonsense at Evostars energetic  forum thread

Evostar reply to Allen [synchro1 here]
QUOTE
Allen Burgess,[synchro1 here]

I do NOT like your words:
"you're a shameless scoundrel,
you deceptive trouble maker"

END QUOTE

to which Allen [Synchro1]replied

Allen Burgess
Quote
@evostars,

Poor baby.
end quote
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ramset

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6102
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1581 on: May 10, 2017, 02:44:20 AM »
magluvin
Since Stefan put Allen on moderation, perhaps he should decide what he posts in his forum[if at all]
this fellow is causing problems at energetic forum
why do this here too?

it is a liability to Stefan
maybe we should let him decide ?
I will ask him tomorrow [too late tonight

and I will also discuss the threats he has made against other members here
Personal vendetta's to destroy them and their reputations

some are threatening lawsuits

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1581 on: May 10, 2017, 02:44:20 AM »

nelsonrochaa

• Hero Member
• Posts: 536
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1582 on: May 11, 2017, 12:12:30 PM »
Hi ,
to ppl interest in this subject i left a very nice document that talk about some of the properties and advantages studied by Oliver Nichelson,  where he show some of the important points that he find in such coils with some comparison's between a bifilar and non bifilar coils. Is not a big document and for sure the interested people will enjoy read them .

Hope people enjoy

Nelson Rocha

• Newbie
• Posts: 35
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1583 on: May 12, 2017, 01:23:02 AM »
I'd ask you about your "Alu-foil Levitation" pancake coil, some specifications, is it bifilar coil or single wound,
but I guess it's not open source for now?

nelsonrochaa

• Hero Member
• Posts: 536
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1584 on: May 12, 2017, 12:15:24 PM »
I'd ask you about your "Alu-foil Levitation" pancake coil, some specifications, is it bifilar coil or single wound,
but I guess it's not open source for now?

nice that you enjoy that video even i not publish that video in the forum . (I don't make any claims)
You know that actually, i did not work in opensource but i can answer that question without any problem :
the coil is bifilar winding

Cheers

Nelson Rocha

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1584 on: May 12, 2017, 12:15:24 PM »

• Newbie
• Posts: 35
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1585 on: May 13, 2017, 09:51:10 AM »
Thanks,
I couldn't see that on the video,  thought maybe it's some special coil, or winding.
Interesting experiment anyway.

regards

synchro1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3091
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1586 on: May 14, 2017, 03:48:56 PM »
At 1:25 in this video Tinselkoala announces that his single wire coil has a higher inductance because it's wrapped tighter!

There's a strong chance TK sneaked just this same kind of "Rim Lead" into his earlier two coil inductance test!

nelsonrochaa

• Hero Member
• Posts: 536
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1587 on: May 16, 2017, 12:52:45 PM »
Hi ppl,

I add another interesting document related with the bifilar pancake coil , with many aspects approached by Oliver Nichelson.
I add too, one interesting a small video about some capabilities of the bifilar pancake coil be a very "inefficient" coil for use in electric power transfer indeed a normal conventional transformer like some persons say .

Wish all the best to all

Nelson Rocha

Jimboot

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1108
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1588 on: May 16, 2017, 01:15:18 PM »
Hi ppl,

I add another interesting document related with the bifilar pancake coil , with many aspects approached by Oliver Nichelson.
I add too, one interesting a small video about some capabilities of the bifilar pancake coil be a very "inefficient" coil for use in electric power transfer indeed a normal conventional transformer like some persons say .

Wish all the best to all

Nelson Rocha
Wow good find Nelson thanks

leonelogb

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 56
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1589 on: May 17, 2017, 01:07:50 AM »
I have learn a lot here, thank @ll
I have been trying to find the way how to connect the bifilar pancake coil like a regular capacitor, but I don't sure. Can somebody put schematic or explain how to connect those tree wire of the bifilar coil, the way as in OZONE PATENT, this is my main objects . Thank before hand!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 03:56:26 AM by leonelogb »