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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 138256 times)

Offline Erfinder

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1560 on: May 07, 2017, 10:20:23 PM »
well
there is no better time to lead by example


each time this is tried, the measurement junkies come in with the authority of homeland security and change the subject to....yup you guessed it....proper measurement practices....practices that they themselves have yet to agree on.....

and yes it is not a topic to be taken lightly [open source OU]
as you say " countless lives are being lost and have been lost"
respectfully
Chet K


don't twist what I said....  countless lives were lost in your area of expertise, despite proper measurement!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline ramset

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1561 on: May 07, 2017, 11:18:31 PM »
Well
I can guarantee you that if you start a topic with a preface explaining your position

you will get respect here ![it is what we are trying to accomplish here
open discussions without sidetracking comments or unsolicited fights.

There are many interested in what you have to say.
Those who are not should refrain from interrupting ,it has after all
been made perfectly clear [by yourself] your stance on their input [applying measurement protocols to everything ].

And on the second comment ,I was not sure what you meant ,nor do I need
to fill this topic with explanations or off topic conversations.

I respect your position ,although I know you could care less about my respect ,and I am OK with that and will narry post a period >.<
in your topic.

and will Beg others who have no real interest or would interrupt with unsolicited comments to do likewise.

respectfully
Chet K


Offline AlienGrey

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1562 on: May 08, 2017, 12:02:38 AM »
Oh please! i wasn't aware it was still a bifilar pancake coil thread I sort of got the impression it was some kind of mud slinging SA competition gong on in here.

Chet, are you really only 10 years old ?

Anyway, you will be glad to see i have removed my offending posts as hinted.

Regards AG

Offline partzman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1563 on: May 08, 2017, 12:27:34 AM »

each time this is tried, the measurement junkies come in with the authority of homeland security and change the subject to....yup you guessed it....proper measurement practices....practices that they themselves have yet to agree on.....

[snip]

Erfinder,

Respectively, in your work I have to assume at some point you take various forms of measurements.  Otherwise, how in the world do you know what you have or where you stand in your development?  How do you compare energy out to energy in which has to be done if the goal is to achieve self powered energy sources?  Perhaps this is not your goal.

Measurements and more accurately stated, precise measurements are a must if one needs to determine if any progress is being made and if the direction taken is correct.

Regarding the measurement issues on OUR,  I feel responsible as it is my COP>1 MEI claims that have driven the efforts to this point in time.  Is it easy to measure accurately, absolutely not.  This is due to the large reactive power in the circuit compared to the smaller resistive power output.  There is much effort by many to develop an accurate as possible measurement protocol.  Will this happen, I happen to believe it will.

Regards,
Pm 

 

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1564 on: May 08, 2017, 03:12:00 AM »
I have two projects on my test bench right now; Let me start with the math:

Xee2 has a series bifilar and a single wire coil of equal turns on two identical high perm cores.

The single wire coil measures 15.9 Milli-Henrys and the bifilar 16.8 Milli-Henrys of inductance.

We know that it takes 3600 Joules per second to generate 1 Tesla of magnetic force in a coil of 1 Henry of inductance, and that 1 Tesla is equal to 10,000 Gauss; Therefore:

16.8 mH divided by 10,000 equals 168 Gauss for the bifilar and 159 Gauss for the single wire at the following power input:

10,000 divided by 3600 equals 2.777. Multiplied by 168 Gauss equals 466.6 Joules per second or 466.6 Watts.

Multiplying the single wire Gauss by the same factor equals 441.5 watts.

Deducting the the 441.5 from the 466.6 gives us 25.1 watts.

So, the gain factor for the bifilar over the single wire coil with the high perm ferrite core is 25.1 watts. That's the power we would save to generate a magnetic field of identical force with the series bifilar wrap over the single wire coil of equal windings.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1564 on: May 08, 2017, 03:12:00 AM »
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Offline Mannix

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1565 on: May 08, 2017, 09:27:23 AM »
The simple fact is that an "over unity" circuit will self oscillate  ..that is the simple proof that it operates beyond

what our theory tells us it should .
There will be no battery other than to kick start it and that would be a cap any way.
At the same time there are measurement errors that countless people have made claim to proof of operation
because of their trust in measurements but as some of the dedicated people here, poynt99 is the most
respected along with many others helping out to find the truth when claims are made with so called
measurements but with out self oscillation.
Others here have motives that I fail to  understand but that's life I guess .

"Measurement junkies" would not exist if  claims were not made based on them and although they may
be seen as spoiling the fun, they are the real performers here because we must not forget that scrutiny is
valuable to us if we are ever going to learn and sadly our test equipment has limitations that need to be
understood .

Or don't bother with it and self run ..as that is the proof to any body.

The fact is that measurements can only be useful in context ,we still see engineers fail to understand that

digital multi meters (and digital oscilloscopes)operate in a way that is not suitable for measurements outside

"normal" conditions.
Mains ac is usually ok, dc levels of low internal resistance and no variation is ok, and measuring resistor and
cap values where we have no clue they are priceless things.

Put them anywhere near an rf field or a noise source and things go pear shaped .
Even analogue meters have issues ,usually with circuit loading but all are just tools of trade .
When an open source over unity device is presented it will self run ....anything else is almost certainly a
measurement error made without any real self scrutiny.

We all owe a great deal to those that supply scrutiny with careful investigation .
Having said the there are also trolls who will do or say anything just to be noticed by other
nameless entities ...we are a diverse bunch !

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1566 on: May 08, 2017, 11:48:27 AM »
Not sure I want to read all this 'driberdrab' If you have a bifilar wound pancake coil will it have any inductance ? so if no inductance how has it got resonance ? surely any single wire has inductance but not bifilar wound has none as it's canceled out, I should know as T1000 had us on that one on the Dailly tread.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1566 on: May 08, 2017, 11:48:27 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1567 on: May 08, 2017, 01:26:19 PM »

sad really.....you folk can't see without your aids....



Only a fool drives at night,without his head lights on.


Brad

Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1568 on: May 08, 2017, 01:38:35 PM »
Not sure I want to read all this 'driberdrab' If you have a bifilar wound pancake coil will it have any inductance ? so if no inductance how has it got resonance ? surely any single wire has inductance but not bifilar wound has none as it's canceled out, I should know as T1000 had us on that one on the Dailly tread.

Of course a BPC has inductance.
Anyone that told you otherwise,needs some schooling.


Brad

Offline Jimboot

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1569 on: May 08, 2017, 03:25:28 PM »

Fact is, I don't have to show anyone anything, and this is true for anyone.  If I want to show someone something I contact them and show them.  Fact is I don't speak in riddles, only the ignorant think I do.
Luvyawork mate.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1569 on: May 08, 2017, 03:25:28 PM »
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Offline Jimboot

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1570 on: May 08, 2017, 03:28:39 PM »
Only a fool drives at night,without his head lights on.


Brad
Seriously. You blokes have more in common than you know.  Do a Skype video call ffs. Text is rubbish for comms.

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1571 on: May 08, 2017, 04:24:37 PM »
I used Xee2's inductance measures that show a 5% greater Micro-Henries of inductance in his series biflar then his single wound coil of equal turns and wire gauge on both a low and high perm ferrite toroid core.

I reviewed my inductance measurements of two air core bifilar and single wire coils and measured a 10% higher inductance in the series bifilar. The problem was I ran out of space on the bobbin for the single wire at 4 Ohms, while the bifilar measured 5. I divided the Ohms into the Milli-Henries for a ratio and arrived at a 10% greater inductance for the bifilar, twice the percentage of Xee2.

I think the extra difference may be a consequence of my "Home style wrap" so I plan to do one more test with two tight coils of equal turns on a High-Perm ferrite core.


Offline Erfinder

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1572 on: May 08, 2017, 06:05:50 PM »
Erfinder,

Respectively, in your work I have to assume at some point you take various forms of measurements.


It would be an untruth if I were to say that I have not taken any measurements.  Here's the thing....I am not looking for what you and others are looking for, I have very little interest in what many of you are chasing after. 


Otherwise, how in the world do you know what you have or where you stand in your development?  How do you compare energy out to energy in which has to be done if the goal is to achieve self powered energy sources?  Perhaps this is not your goal.


A scope will not tell me where I stand......  Where I am headed, comparing energy in and out is a waste of time.  A self powering device requires a mechanism.  Your measurement instruments will not reveal that mechanism to you, they, your measurement instruments, will inform you of what they were designed to inform you of, nothing more.  The concept of self powering as you and others present it, is of no interest to me.  I prefer my own dogma.



Measurements and more accurately stated, precise measurements are a must if one needs to determine if any progress is being made and if the direction taken is correct.


I disagree.  The problem I have with many of you is your perspective.  You all are preoccupied with systems which "dis-integrate" energy. I busy myself with systems which "integrate" energy.  This simple change in perspective forces one to recognize that there are no "precise measurement protocols" for systems based on integration...... 


I don't need your measurement methods to inform me whether I am making progress and or whether I am headed in the right direction, you cannot of your own accord reproduce, without my guidance, anything that I can demonstrate, with or without your measurement aids!

Regarding the measurement issues on OUR,  I feel responsible as it is my COP>1 MEI claims that have driven the efforts to this point in time.  Is it easy to measure accurately, absolutely not.  This is due to the large reactive power in the circuit compared to the smaller resistive power output.  There is much effort by many to develop an accurate as possible measurement protocol.  Will this happen, I happen to believe it will.

Regards,
Pm 



The sad truth as I have come to see it, you people can't see the forest for the trees.  The system gives what is demanded of it, you choose not to appreciate the manner by which it manifests.  You place demands on the system, force it to yield that which you want.....ignorance....  The system does not judge you, it does not correct you, it accommodates your ignorance!  These fields and forces were here long before man put pen to paper, attempting to quantify and qualify the infinite-unfathomable in a few lines of text.....LOL....  These fields and forces will be here long after the planet has rolled out of the sweet spot it now occupies, a spot which makes man the idea possible. 


It's all reactive, you know it, and yet....you run from it, chasing after .....LOL




Regards

Offline partzman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1573 on: May 08, 2017, 07:35:41 PM »

It would be an untruth if I were to say that I have not taken any measurements.  Here's the thing....I am not looking for what you and others are looking for, I have very little interest in what many of you are chasing after. 


A scope will not tell me where I stand......  Where I am headed, comparing energy in and out is a waste of time.  A self powering device requires a mechanism.  Your measurement instruments will not reveal that mechanism to you, they, your measurement instruments, will inform you of what they were designed to inform you of, nothing more.  The concept of self powering as you and others present it, is of no interest to me.  I prefer my own dogma.




I disagree.  The problem I have with many of you is your perspective.  You all are preoccupied with systems which "dis-integrate" energy. I busy myself with systems which "integrate" energy.  This simple change in perspective forces one to recognize that there are no "precise measurement protocols" for systems based on integration...... 


I don't need your measurement methods to inform me whether I am making progress and or whether I am headed in the right direction, you cannot of your own accord reproduce, without my guidance, anything that I can demonstrate, with or without your measurement aids!


The sad truth as I have come to see it, you people can't see the forest for the trees.  The system gives what is demanded of it, you choose not to appreciate the manner by which it manifests.  You place demands on the system, force it to yield that which you want.....ignorance....  The system does not judge you, it does not correct you, it accommodates your ignorance!  These fields and forces were here long before man put pen to paper, attempting to quantify and qualify the infinite-unfathomable in a few lines of text.....LOL....  These fields and forces will be here long after the planet has rolled out of the sweet spot it now occupies, a spot which makes man the idea possible. 


It's all reactive, you know it, and yet....you run from it, chasing after .....LOL




Regards

I really can't say that I disagree with you on your points above.  I can say that I see a broad hint in your last statement and therefore would like to ask if you have developed a device that self runs?

Regards,

Pm

Offline Erfinder

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1574 on: May 08, 2017, 08:36:45 PM »
I really can't say that I disagree with you on your points above.  I can say that I see a broad hint in your last statement and therefore would like to ask if you have developed a device that self runs?

Regards,

Pm


I am not asking you to agree with anything I post...I share impressions for your consideration.


There was no hint....I don't speak in riddles.  I am not into thinking for others either, I try to get you to ask "different" questions. 


I do not have a device which self runs, having a device which self runs prior to establishing and developing one's understanding of the mechanism which makes self sustaining possible is counter productive. Comprehending what's there is priority number one, ergo my statement that "it's all reactive".  That I have.....I am constantly refining my understanding of what REACTIVE means, and how to apply this understanding to systems so that loads are indistinguishable from the tank circuit that they are part of.  Please don't assume that I am using the terms terms tank and reactive in the same manner as you would, I am not.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1574 on: May 08, 2017, 08:36:45 PM »

 

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