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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 122134 times)

Offline webby1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1155 on: April 22, 2017, 10:12:56 AM »
Just wondering,,

How does the bifi coil oscillate,, as in,, does the electric capacitance change into the magnetic capacitance and then back???

How is the current stopped and started?  where does it go?

If you supply a large electric pulse with no real current can you then take the conversion out as a lot of current with lower electric potential?

Could you supply a very short high voltage pulse and then slow the time of conversion into current so that the current conversion takes a much longer time period?

It is kind of interesting that you have one single device that can exhibit and use voltage storage and magnetic storage,, even if it is only for a short time.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline webby1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1156 on: April 22, 2017, 10:27:24 AM »
I read some time ago about a couple of people that wondered what would happen if the on pulse time was shorter than the relaxation time for a conductor.  They ran there tests using a very large spool of coax,, long enough so that they could use inexpensive parts to control the pulse time.

One of the things I remember from there exploits was that they used less energy when they had a diode connecting the coax ends,, maybe burn up the trapped energy??? not sure about that but the diode reduced there input.

Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1157 on: April 22, 2017, 11:12:26 AM »


And of course I ask the questions that many won't ask or they are afraid to ask because of the special flavour of political correctness around here:  What is the Tesla series bifilar pancake coil good for?  What can you do with it?  I have asked similar questions about other issues that nobody dare speak in the past.
I think it has already been indicated, some of the applications of pancake bifilar, you are only try put "sand in the gears" nothing more .
You can try to test in a practical way, in your laboratory of work, instead of continuing to regret that they do not answer you in relation to your doubts, on the pancake bifilar.
See how a bifilar pancake coil could be used to do nice work in transfering power  :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEZSCNHDYJs


Offline padova

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1158 on: April 22, 2017, 11:30:18 AM »
You are wright Nelson,
less talking and/or complaining and more actual work. Way to go. :)

Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1159 on: April 22, 2017, 11:43:16 AM »
You are wright Nelson,
less talking and/or complaining and more actual work. Way to go. :)

Full agree !

More work and less talk and corrosive speech . ;)

Nelson Rocha

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1159 on: April 22, 2017, 11:43:16 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1160 on: April 22, 2017, 12:48:13 PM »


The inductor's "B" field, or magnetic field, stores a tiny "H' field, or electric charge. This charge is measured by our inductance meters and is converted into "Negative Henries".

The question remains: Is the tiny "H" field in direct proportion to the coil's magnetic field strength? I maintain it is and can prove it.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1161 on: April 22, 2017, 01:29:51 PM »
I think it has already been indicated, some of the applications of pancake bifilar, you are only try put "sand in the gears" nothing more .
You can try to test in a practical way, in your laboratory of work, instead of continuing to regret that they do not answer you in relation to your doubts, on the pancake bifilar.
See how a bifilar pancake coil could be used to do nice work in transfering power  :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEZSCNHDYJs

No, unfortunately that is not an answer to my questions.  You can use an ordinary transformer to transfer power and it will be superior in performance to a bifilar pancake coil and it will be cheaper.  So I don't care that you can transfer power with a Tesla series bifilar pancake coil, it's meaningless.

So my questions are still 100% valid:  What is the Tesla series bifilar pancake coil good for?  What can you do with it?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1161 on: April 22, 2017, 01:29:51 PM »
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Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1162 on: April 22, 2017, 01:38:31 PM »
No, unfortunately that is not an answer to my questions.  You can use an ordinary transformer to transfer power and it will be superior in performance to a bifilar pancake coil and it will be cheaper.  So I don't care that you can transfer power with a Tesla series bifilar pancake coil, it's meaningless.

So my questions are still 100% valid:  What is the Tesla series bifilar pancake coil good for?  What can you do with it?

Normal transformer is less expensive then a pancake coil ? i don't think so ... only the core will increase the final price of transformer in relation to pancake coil just like their losses.

A ordinary transformer will transfer power and it will be superior in performance ?
I don't think so too . Test it and after you could talk more Assertively.

What is meaningless is your certainties sometimes .
Have a nice day
 
Nelson Rocha

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1163 on: April 22, 2017, 01:53:02 PM »
Normal transformer is less expensive then a pancake coil ? i don't think so ... only the core will increase the final price of transformer in relation to pancake coil just like their losses.

A ordinary transformer will transfer power and it will be superior in performance ?
I don't think so too . Test it and after you could talk more Assertively.

What is meaningless is your certainties sometimes .
Have a nice day
 
Nelson Rocha

There are billions of transformers manufactured every year for power transfer applications and they are not manufacturing Tesla series bifilar pancake coils, are they?

You feel free to define a power application for a transformer and then compare the best conventional transformer suited to the application with the best TBP coil suited to the application and compare efficiency and cost and there is no chance that the TBP coil will outperform the conventional transformer.

Just look at the geometry of a TBP coil with very small-diameter inner turns inside of larger-diameter outer turns.  The small-diameter turns will give you a weaker, poorer coupling as compared to the larger-diameter turns.  Plus there is flux cancellation between the turns of a TBP coil.  These are all aspects of the device telling you that it will function poorly as a transformer.  You are supposed to be able to look at cases like this and apply your knowledge.

I am absolutely certain that there are better, more cost-effective solutions for power transfer than TBP coils.

Offline Erfinder

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1164 on: April 22, 2017, 02:11:25 PM »
There are billions of transformers manufactured every year for power transfer applications and they are not manufacturing Tesla series bifilar pancake coils, are they?

You feel free to define a power application for a transformer and then compare the best conventional transformer suited to the application with the best TBP coil suited to the application and compare efficiency and cost and there is no chance that the TBP coil will outperform the conventional transformer.


Here is the problem....who said anything about power transfer!?  Ah...I get it, that's what you interpreted from Nelson's demonstration.  I am not a groupie, however, I do appreciate why you would think that (that this is about power transfer...a message you keep repeating),  and hey, what do I know, maybe his (Nelson's) message in that video is about power transfer......would be a shame if it was....  Knowing what we know today, who in their right mind is interested and or concerned with the rate at which energy is "dissipated"?!?  I keep coming to the same conclusion regarding that question......"the ignorant".

Just look at the geometry of a TBP coil with very small-diameter inner turns inside of larger-diameter outer turns.  The small-diameter turns will give you a weaker, poorer coupling as compared to the larger-diameter turns.  Plus there is flux cancellation between the turns of a TBP coil.  These are all aspects of the device telling you that it will function poorly as a transformer.  You are supposed to be able to look at cases like this and apply your knowledge.


I am absolutely certain that there are better, more cost-effective solutions for power transfer than TBP coils.

It is quite fascinating witnessing how you are paralyzed by your years of experience, all that compressed time prohibiting you from truly appreciating what is right in front of you, you of above all were trained to see it and yet...you are as blind as those you judge.....  What you describe is exactly what I want.....Everything you point a crooked finger at and downplay are the strengths of this "geometry", strengths of this "relation", not weakness!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1164 on: April 22, 2017, 02:11:25 PM »
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Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1165 on: April 22, 2017, 02:42:40 PM »

You feel free to define a power application for a transformer and then compare the best conventional transformer suited to the application with the best TBP coil suited to the application and compare efficiency and cost and there is no chance that the TBP coil will outperform the conventional transformer.

Just look at the geometry of a TBP coil with very small-diameter inner turns inside of larger-diameter outer turns.  The small-diameter turns will give you a weaker, poorer coupling as compared to the larger-diameter turns.  Plus there is flux cancellation between the turns of a TBP coil.  These are all aspects of the device telling you that it will function poorly as a transformer.  You are supposed to be able to look at cases like this and apply your knowledge.

I am absolutely certain that there are better, more cost-effective solutions for power transfer than TBP coils.

"There are billions of transformers manufactured every year for power transfer applications and they are not manufacturing Tesla series bifilar pancake coils, are they?"

Yes it is true , almost transformers are not designed in a bifilar pancake coils, But is this something new? Everybody now that fact, About the reasons to continue use normal transformers ... I'm not so sure anymore if the reason to their use, is their advantage  in relation to other alternatives. Imagine that all the transformers in industries did not need to use iron core . How could this could hypothetical change all industrial and financial  reality and lobby ?
Is the question ...


Nelson Rocha
 



Offline AlienGrey

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1166 on: April 22, 2017, 04:02:38 PM »
"There are billions of transformers manufactured every year for power transfer applications and they are not manufacturing Tesla series bifilar pancake coils, are they?"

Yes it is true , almost transformers are not designed in a bifilar pancake coils, But is this something new? Everybody now that fact, About the reasons to continue use normal transformers ... I'm not so sure anymore if the reason to their use, is their advantage  in relation to other alternatives. Imagine that all the transformers in industries did not need to use iron core . How could this could hypothetical change all industrial and financial  reality and lobby ?
Is the question ...


Nelson Rocha
Nelson Hi yes it's said to be the ion in the transformer you mention, i'm not sur 'E & I' laminations are so good, 'UU' type would return much more, and give me the no free meal exists joke, the nefalines have been having them since the beginning of time.

Talking about pancake coils would there be any 'special' wire length or frequency where a return is greatest ? 

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1167 on: April 22, 2017, 04:08:12 PM »
There are billions of transformers manufactured every year for power transfer applications and they are not manufacturing Tesla series bifilar pancake coils, are they?

You feel free to define a power application for a transformer and then compare the best conventional transformer suited to the application with the best TBP coil suited to the application and compare efficiency and cost and there is no chance that the TBP coil will outperform the conventional transformer.

Just look at the geometry of a TBP coil with very small-diameter inner turns inside of larger-diameter outer turns.  The small-diameter turns will give you a weaker, poorer coupling as compared to the larger-diameter turns.  Plus there is flux cancellation between the turns of a TBP coil.  These are all aspects of the device telling you that it will function poorly as a transformer.  You are supposed to be able to look at cases like this and apply your knowledge.

I am absolutely certain that there are better, more cost-effective solutions for power transfer than TBP coils.
It's not 'Energy transfer we need, all that's available commercially and available from the 'grid', but it's never going to be 'free' ;)

Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1168 on: April 22, 2017, 04:31:40 PM »
There are billions of transformers manufactured every year for power transfer applications and they are not manufacturing Tesla series bifilar pancake coils, are they?

You feel free to define a power application for a transformer and then compare the best conventional transformer suited to the application with the best TBP coil suited to the application and compare efficiency and cost and there is no chance that the TBP coil will outperform the conventional transformer.

Just look at the geometry of a TBP coil with very small-diameter inner turns inside of larger-diameter outer turns.  The small-diameter turns will give you a weaker, poorer coupling as compared to the larger-diameter turns.  Plus there is flux cancellation between the turns of a TBP coil.  These are all aspects of the device telling you that it will function poorly as a transformer.  You are supposed to be able to look at cases like this and apply your knowledge.

I am absolutely certain that there are better, more cost-effective solutions for power transfer than TBP coils.

Well,im with you on this one MH,as i have seen nothing more than a lower resonant frequency from a BPC,than that of a single wound coil,of exact same dimensions,wire size,and wire type.

What i have seen so far,is !some! here,harping on about how special the BPC is,but show absolutely nothing to back up this claim.

From this we can deduce that they cannot show anything great about the BPC,and that the fanaticism is only there for the BPC for no other reason than that of the name behind it !Tesla!.

So,why would the BPC have a lower resonant frequency of that of a single wound coil of the same parameters?.

Well my theory on that.
With the single wound coil,both the resistive value across each winding,and the capacitive value between each winding,would decrease as you go from the outside winding,to the inner winding.
With the BPC,only the capacitive value between windings would decrease,as you go from the outer winding,to the inner winding. The resistive value across each two windings would remain a constant value.
The symmetry of this resistance value,may be why the BPC has a lower resonant frequency.

Anyway,that's my two cents worth.


Brad

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1169 on: April 22, 2017, 05:13:18 PM »
Here is the problem....who said anything about power transfer!?  Ah...I get it, that's what you interpreted from Nelson's demonstration.  I am not a groupie, however, I do appreciate why you would think that (that this is about power transfer...a message you keep repeating),  and hey, what do I know, maybe his (Nelson's) message in that video is about power transfer......would be a shame if it was....  Knowing what we know today, who in their right mind is interested and or concerned with the rate at which energy is "dissipated"?!?  I keep coming to the same conclusion regarding that question......"the ignorant".

It is quite fascinating witnessing how you are paralyzed by your years of experience, all that compressed time prohibiting you from truly appreciating what is right in front of you, you of above all were trained to see it and yet...you are as blind as those you judge.....  What you describe is exactly what I want.....Everything you point a crooked finger at and downplay are the strengths of this "geometry", strengths of this "relation", not weakness!

Nelson said power transfer, I am not interpreting anything.  "The ignorant" are interested and or concerned with the rate at which energy is "dissipated"?!?  The poor humble masses worrying about the battery life of their smartphones when there are bigger fish to fry?

What am I blind to?  What is it that I can't appreciate?  What is it that you want?  What are the strengths?  If you refuse to answer and scoff that I would dare to ask then you are nothing more than the resident thread clown.  I am saying this ahead of time because we have been down this road before.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1169 on: April 22, 2017, 05:13:18 PM »

 

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