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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 154256 times)

Offline webby1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1140 on: April 22, 2017, 09:28:54 PM »

You thought I was finished?  I wasn't finished, I like giving folk time to think about what's being suggested, I don't deal in facts, be careful when dealing in facts, they usually bite you in the ass, removing huge chunks of flesh....


Are conductors really conductors.....not a question....what are they conducting when they are supposedly conducting....not a question....They behave more like insulators when.....WTF am I suggesting...not a question...


The coil is both inductor and capacitor, simultaneous-sequentially.  The same applies to that whose activity is restricted to  the area between the socalled guide.

Nope,, I did not think you were finished.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline webby1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1141 on: April 22, 2017, 09:34:50 PM »
So my questions stand, and I am not expecting them to be answered in this thread.  And that means my answers to the questions are the true answers.  And the smart ones would then simply move on and get past the fetish over this patent.

False.

Just because you do not get the answer YOU want does not make YOU right.

That also only makes your answers only an answer,, not the one and only answer.

If you have not noticed it really is not so much about the patent,, it is about the coil and what happens with that coil OTHER than what the standard view expects.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1142 on: April 22, 2017, 09:36:07 PM »

You bash before you comprehend.....all public discussion stops and you claim a victory....you have no idea...you might want to revisit, on second thought...they don't make glasses strong enough to correct your piss poor eyesight.....

You have run out of gas Erfinder, it's just a joke at this point in time.  My eyesight is way better than yours and I understood that fake pulse motor.  Who says public discussion stops?  Stop paying the butt-hurt guy that whines all the time.  This thread is an open canvas for you to share something.  However, you are the little boy that cried wolf all the time and there is no substance.  Why is the sky blue?  There is a real answer to that question, and not some endless series of proddings to get your audience to think outside of the box.  What is blue?  What does it mean to see?  Are we really "seeing" or is it just nerve impulses firing?  Is it really blue, bla bla bla.

The canvas is open for you to actually say something of substance.

Something like this:  No matter what your excitation of the coil or what frequencies you use or what waveform you use, the coil is a passive energy storage device where energy is mostly stored in the magnetic field and some of the energy can potentially be stored in an electric field.  Some energy is also lost through resistance.  For all practical intents and purposes, the coil is just a rag doll that you excite and then observe how it responds.  You can shake the rag doll, spin the rag doll, or hit the rag doll, and in the final analysis it will always be a passive rag doll.

The canvas is open for you.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1143 on: April 22, 2017, 09:37:47 PM »
If you have not noticed it really is not so much about the patent,, it is about the coil and what happens with that coil OTHER than what the standard view expects.

And we are still waiting for the tiniest little smidgen of evidence that that is even remotely true.

Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1144 on: April 22, 2017, 09:43:55 PM »
No, I had every reason to believe that you did not think about the issues I discussed.  You have not shown any practical use for a Tesla series bifilar pancake coil because using it to make a transformer for power transfer is not realistic and there are better ways to do that.

What you mean when you say that is not a realistic approach make a transformer to power transfer ?
Did you already try it ? Did you know any report where that was tested to you have sure about that ?
Point me please , because i will like read to compare with what i observed .

thanks

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1144 on: April 22, 2017, 09:43:55 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1145 on: April 22, 2017, 10:02:51 PM »
What you mean when you say that is not a realistic approach make a transformer to power transfer ?
Did you already try it ? Did you know any report where that was tested to you have sure about that ?
Point me please , because i will like read to compare with what i observed .

thanks

You basically said, "No there is a good use for a Tesla series bifilar pancake coil for power transfer, take a look at my video clip."

In your clip you make a light bulb light, and you make a motor run.  Big deal, that means nothing.  You didn't prove anything, you just made an anecdotal demonstration with no measurements and no analysis of the data.

I will simply repeat to you that a Tesla series bifilar pancake coil does not demonstrate any advantage for transformer power coupling and there are far better ways to couple power using a transformer.  There are literally thousands of different models of transformers manufactured in the billions by hundreds of companies every year. 

Sorry, the fact that you can make a light bulb light up means nothing.  The burden would be on *you* to present data that this coil does this function in a better way than any other solution. 

Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1146 on: April 22, 2017, 10:18:15 PM »
You basically said, "No there is a good use for a Tesla series bifilar pancake coil for power transfer, take a look at my video clip."

In your clip you make a light bulb light, and you make a motor run.  Big deal, that means nothing.  You didn't prove anything, you just made an anecdotal demonstration with no measurements and no analysis of the data.

I will simply repeat to you that a Tesla series bifilar pancake coil does not demonstrate any advantage for transformer power coupling and there are far better ways to couple power using a transformer.  There are literally thousands of different models of transformers manufactured in the billions by hundreds of companies every year. 

Sorry, the fact that you can make a light bulb light up means nothing.  The burden would be on *you* to present data that this coil does this function in a better way than any other solution.


I basically make a anecdotal demonstration with no measurements and no analysis with a incandescent  light a 100W 230v bulb with a input of 30v and less 2 amp .  I understand how inefficient that is , and anecdotal i could become myself . :)
Please ignore that  , i don't have any intention to confuse your head with anecdotal ideas lol

Nelson Rocha


 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1146 on: April 22, 2017, 10:18:15 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1147 on: April 22, 2017, 10:27:48 PM »

I basically make a anecdotal demonstration with no measurements and no analysis with a incandescent  light a 100W 230v bulb with a input of 30v and less 2 amp .  I understand how inefficient that is , and anecdotal i could become myself . :)
Please ignore that  , i don't have any intention to confuse your head with anecdotal ideas lol

Nelson Rocha

Oh, 30 volts x 2 amps = 60 watts, and you made a 100-watt 230-volt light bulb light up?  It sounds amazing.

Did you actually measure the voltage and current through the light bulb?  It's tricky considering that the resistance of the filament varies with temperature.

On this forum, we have seen this countless times before, and it means nothing.  I am going to ignore it, as will everyone else with a basic understanding of these issues.

Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1148 on: April 22, 2017, 10:32:57 PM »
Oh, 30 volts x 2 amps = 60 watts, and you made a 100-watt 230-volt light bulb light up?  It sounds amazing.

Did you actually measure the voltage and current through the light bulb?  It's tricky considering that the resistance of the filament varies with temperature.

On this forum, we have seen this countless times before, and it means nothing.  I am going to ignore it, as will everyone else with a basic understanding of these issues.

Yes just ignore it in that way you head will not get any "junk" by me . Way you systematically try talk not only by you by the others  ?
Did you think others are not able to decide what is good or not ?  seems not .


 Nelson Rocha

PS- See MH , i not only light neon in one hand ;)



Offline itsu

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1149 on: April 22, 2017, 11:02:51 PM »
Hi Itsu,

To refine this tuning procedure, both coils would need to be paralleled with a variable capacitor
and first both of these capacitors would need to be set to a half capacitance value (half opened capacitors).
This way you could tune any of the coils either above or below of the frequency established by
the half opened capacitors, and this then could help finding the best coupling where the response
has a single peak at the common resonance frequency for both coils.  Both LC circuits mutually detune
each other as they are coupled i.e. getting closer to each other hence the need to either increase or
decrease the individual coil resonancies and this can be done by opening or closing the capacitors.

But this tuning you nicely show in the video may also be enough already to test the load of a LED or
any other load connected to the pick-up coil how it influences the small current consumption of the
main TBP at the paralel resonance - this was the original goal for tuning the pick-up coil to be resonant
with the main TBP coil.

Thanks
Gyula

Gyula,

i did some further tests like you mentioned and put a variable cap across each TBP coil.
Even when 90° turned away and quite a distance away, i see the pickup coil picking up the signal where both coils are on the same resonance frequency.

Approaching the driven coil with the pickup coil shows the split in resonance of both coils which increases more and more untill they are touching each other.
The both resonance points in each coil are a 500KHz away now.

Next i reversed the pickup coil and did an approach again showing that at some point the pickup signal disappears (15cm away from the driven coil).
When further approaching, the signal reappears and the splits in resonance frequency happens again like before.

Finally i went over to a single resonance freqeuncy (no sweeping) to show the phase difference between the both coils signals.
They are either 180° out of phase or when the pickup coils gets reversed in phase.

Video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQEJ08TRNkU


Regards Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1149 on: April 22, 2017, 11:02:51 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1150 on: April 23, 2017, 12:39:11 AM »
Hi Itsu,

Probably the big size (volume) of the variable capacitors and the wiring associated with it establishes inherent (capacitive) coupling by default between the two tuned circuits.
Small sized variable capacitors like the ones used in AM pocket radio receivers might behave more favorably. Sorry. 
The unwanted coupling is what I think may now be happening but you maybe cannot remedy this easily and maybe there is no need to do so. 

Regarding the LED is not lit: maybe using a normal load resistor (across the pick up coil) from 10 to say 200 Ohm (just guessing) or a low current wheat lamp would also indicate whether its presence reflect back to the primary coil when the latter is the measurement setup in series with the 10 Ohm. 

Thanks for the video and for doing these tests.   
Gyula

Offline webby1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1151 on: April 23, 2017, 02:49:04 AM »
And we are still waiting for the tiniest little smidgen of evidence that that is even remotely true.

I will just throw out a few questions,, I may not know the answers,,

What is the relationship of the interactive parts,,

capacitance between turns comparing the first 2 to the last 2.
how does the changing surface area affect that.
magnetic field density.
does the capacitance value change when current flows.
what happens to the dielectric.
is there some secondary force that might cause the dielectric to move maybe.
what happens when the voltage is increased.
what is the difference between a single pulse and a resonant run.
do other coils demonstrate these exact same relationships.

I think more people can come up with more questions and as soon as one of those only works for the coil in question,, well you are shown to have an incomplete answer.

I did not say "wrong answer", I said "incomplete", since if desired you could only look at the coil in the way you have described.

Offline itsu

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1152 on: April 23, 2017, 11:59:25 AM »
Hi Itsu,

Probably the big size (volume) of the variable capacitors and the wiring associated with it establishes inherent (capacitive) coupling by default between the two tuned circuits.
Small sized variable capacitors like the ones used in AM pocket radio receivers might behave more favorably. Sorry. 
The unwanted coupling is what I think may now be happening but you maybe cannot remedy this easily and maybe there is no need to do so. 

Regarding the LED is not lit: maybe using a normal load resistor (across the pick up coil) from 10 to say 200 Ohm (just guessing) or a low current wheat lamp would also indicate whether its presence reflect back to the primary coil when the latter is the measurement setup in series with the 10 Ohm. 

Thanks for the video and for doing these tests.   
Gyula


Hi Gyula,

yes i figured that the chunky caps and cliplead wiring would be the cause of the coupling on that distance.

I will do some extra tests to get the led lit as it was lit when using my earlier used pickup coil (coiled up wires).


Thanks,   Itsu

Offline evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1153 on: April 23, 2017, 12:31:04 PM »
Thanks Itsu!

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1154 on: April 23, 2017, 03:39:29 PM »
Yes just ignore it in that way you head will not get any "junk" by me . Way you systematically try talk not only by you by the others  ?
Did you think others are not able to decide what is good or not ?  seems not .

Are you claiming OU or anything special when you light up your 100-watt 230-volt light bulb with your Tesla series bifilar pancake coil transformer?  Yes or no?

I am pretty sure that the answer is no.  Therefore the fact that you lit the bulb up is pointless, it does not demonstrate anything special about the Tesla series bifilar pancake coil.  There are better ways to make a transformer.  Therefore my questions still stand.

What is the Tesla series bifilar pancake coil good for?  What can you do with it?

Don't get mad at me for asking the questions that all of us should be asking.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1154 on: April 23, 2017, 03:39:29 PM »

 

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