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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Gabriele on March 14, 2017, 10:57:31 PM

Title: What should I do if...
Post by: Gabriele on March 14, 2017, 10:57:31 PM
Let's say I found a system that can convert heat from environment into usable elettricity. I don't have money to patent the configuration. How can i have benefits from this claim?
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: dieter on March 14, 2017, 11:11:07 PM
if it really works, check all patent databases whether it is already patented. This is a lot of work.


If it is new, get some money and apply for an international patent. Go to a bank, demonstrate the device without to reveal its secret. Show your patent search results, agree with high interest. That's what banks are here for. They get the money from the nation, to borrow it to the people.


But like I said, make sure it really works.
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: MagnaProp on March 15, 2017, 04:47:59 AM
...How can i have benefits from this claim?
Release the info to the masses and be showered in praise for your contribution towards the good of all. The longer you hold onto it, the longer you allow someone else to come forward with such a claim and take the praise that could have been yours.
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: fritznien on March 15, 2017, 05:52:02 AM
did you make to power your house?
an electric car?
your mom's house?
your mother-inlaw?
are you selling power back to the grid?
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: pomodoro on March 15, 2017, 06:32:01 AM
Get a local paper to do a story, then move onto national papers and become famous. Then sell it to the highest bidder.

It must be useful and make a few kW at least or nobody will give a damn.

Do what the that greek  peter painter guy is doing basically. although I think he is full of crap myself, but all he needs is investors to believe. You need to sell the secret and walk away.

Patents are for fools in this field, don't even think about it.   
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: pulp on March 15, 2017, 11:59:34 AM
There is already invented such a device and it is called - air conditioner  8)
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: conradelektro on March 15, 2017, 01:03:26 PM
I don't have money to patent the configuration. How can i have benefits from this claim?

This phrase shows that your mental capabilities are very limited and that you deserve not to have money. Therefore the "if" you dream about is absolute nonsense.

But in general, you can not hold on to a monumental discovery.

What you are talking about (converting heat into electricity without putting more energy in than you get out) would not be an "invention" but the discovery of a not yet known physical property of the universe. And there would be (if it is a real discovery, not just a silly confusion) thousands of ways to exploit this new discovery. Can you patent all the possibilities? You can not patent a discovery, just means to exploit it.

Then come the practical issues: if the discovery is really important, everybody (big money, the military, any government supporting its industry) will take it out of your hands and there will even be thousands who claim that they have made the discovery themselves.

But do not worry, there will not be such a discovery, just your self delusion.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: dieter on March 15, 2017, 01:32:42 PM
Ah, Cinrad, don't be so harsh.


Anyone remember my Watermotor that was driven by water evaporation? It was using the heat of our atmosphere, so all it did was turning heat into torque. It did violate the 2nd law, since in only cooled the surroundings, but had no heat losses by its own.


The university of colombia has picked it up, developed it further and is now financially backed by the US Dept. of Energy, as well as by some Companies.


Of course I didn't get any money... that in fact seems to be a real physical law. Those who invent are the unsung heros.


BTW. thread opener: don't trust lawyers. The guy who invented the Drinking Bird Sci-toy, his Lawyer stole his plan and patented it in his own name...


kr
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: conradelektro on March 15, 2017, 03:53:01 PM
Anyone remember my Watermotor that was driven by water evaporation? It was using the heat of our atmosphere, so all it did was turning heat into torque. It did violate the 2nd law, since in only cooled the surroundings, but had no heat losses by its own.

The university of colombia has picked it up, developed it further and is now financially backed by the US Dept. of Energy, as well as by some Companies.
kr

Could you point (links) to some information about your Watermotor. Does the University of Columbia offer any information online? Or ist a big secret?

This is not an attack, I am just interested.

But a violation of the second law of thermodynamics is a tall claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics) (just a reminder what this empirical observation says).

I could accept that your Watermotor draws eventually the energy from the sun which heats the atmosphere (evaporating water like everywhere on the earth). So, it is not a closed system we are talking about. Evaporative cooling is a valid concept and it works, but you need energy (heat from some source, e.g. from the sun) to do the evaporation.

Most processes on earth draw the energy eventually or way back from the sun. Therefore I always advocate imitating nature by exploiting the energy from the sun. The sun's energy is not endless, but endless enough on a human scale. It is pretty certain that humans will not survive the next 1 billion years, but the sun will. Therefore, endless energy as long as it will matter for us.

About making money from inventions: it is indeed true that most of the time the original inventor is left out in the cold. That has much to do with the fact, that inventors are most of the time bad business men and not ruthless enough. In my humble opinion it is also linked to the fact, that no invention comes out of the blue. Every inventor stands on the shoulders of countless inventors before him. Just the fact that one gets an education at school shows that we all need the knowledge of people before us. And which acquired knowledge was important for an invention? Who knows, but it is sure that nobody begins at zero. And poetic justice gives the fruits of an invention away driven by chance. Whoever comes along with the right talents (business connections, willingness to steal, driven by greed) takes away the winnings.

So, I question the concept of "rights earned by inventing something". The patent system has nothing to do with justice, it is an important tool of capitalism to safeguard profits.

For thousands of years people have made inventions and everybody could copy it. Only recently, at the end of the 19th century the questionable and greedy concept of "owning knowledge" came up. It is almost as bad as "owning people" (slavery). It has much to do with the rise of capitalism. But this is politics and many do not understand that everything is politics, if you like it or not.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: Gabriele on March 15, 2017, 05:22:21 PM
mental capabilities are very limited...

Can you do better?
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: Gabriele on March 15, 2017, 05:23:13 PM
Like a man who escaped from Alcatraz!  ;D
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: conradelektro on March 15, 2017, 09:01:27 PM
Can you do better?


No, I can not do better. But I do not claim "if" and I do not claim OU. That should count for something.


Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: dieter on March 15, 2017, 10:13:24 PM
@Conrad, he also didn't claim OU.


As for Kelvins 2nd: every physicist knows exactly what the decond law of thermodynamics is. - Only no two physicists agree upon what it is.


There are several classical interpretation. I refer to it as extraction of heat to turn it into other energy, without losses. Mind you this law was written for and around the design of steam engines.


The evaporation engine see Stefans tube channel, in one of his news feeds is a link. I forgot to bookmark it, but saved the page locally.


@Gabriele, don't get upset by Conrads tone.
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 16, 2017, 02:00:20 AM
@Gabrielle


IF you have a device that truly works
Converting heat to usable energy or motive force


Then you must make a decision


Do YOU want to personally gain from this?


Or do you want the world as a whole to see the benefits?


If it's personal gain you are after, simply modify your design
So that it is easily producible, and get a patent.
Almost any major energy corporation will gladly buy you out.
And the technology will never see the light of day.


If you wish the world and all of mankind to benefit from this
Then you should present the technology and everything you
know up to this point here in the public forum, open source.


By sharing the information, everyone can build one, and no one
"owns it". We can help you ensure that it is never patentable by
US or international patent laws.



Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: Gabriele on March 16, 2017, 03:42:35 AM
I don't...i'm shy....there will be others like me.
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: ARMCORTEX on March 16, 2017, 07:32:35 AM
Get a financier and build it.

Patents are gay, you need to call a lawyer and pay money

If I had free energy, I would make a very competitive machine shop. I would get 500k, buy myself a millturn, an EDM machine and a 5 axis mill.

Make aircraft parts, oil and gas, just like all the other machine shops but I'll get all the customers. I'd keep the secret all to me.

I would tell a cryptic description and enforce the agreement with big industry and ask for money then fall in line of said contract for fear of retribution. You don't need a patent to extort a good amount of money to a billion dollar company. Free energy will never be for the masses, not the ability to manufacture at least.it's not governable situation.

If everybody had knowledge of free energy I think we would make  it less likely for evolution as there must be always the pressure to survive and prosper. Ifhumans do not struggle anymore there will be no more point to anything productive... No need to get out there and compete, it would be the end of society as we know it and need to work would be optionnal.

There would be massive ego tripping by layman copycats that would claim it for their own, that would mess up equilibrium there is alot of douchebags out there and you wanna  give them all free energy? No way man, there needs to be order in this society. The corporate and capitalist society is what assures this order.

Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: Doug1 on March 19, 2017, 01:09:20 PM
Exploit it for your own use until you recoup your costs to develop a more user friendly version. Use that time develop a workable plan depending on your objective. apply a lot of common sense pay more attention to actions rather then words although words do leak out which indicate the real intentions of people around you if you give it enough time. Use a business plan to maintain your steps in order and dont be discouraged by the amount of time it takes to chip away at the tasks. You have to have faith in the process and for Gods sake dont get in your own way thinking there are short cuts. Nothing worth doing will come easily ,there will always people who will not be happy with what ever you do so dont waste time trying to please any of them just stay on task and do the best you can. Focus is a lost art.
Title: Re: What should I do if...
Post by: dieter on March 19, 2017, 02:54:07 PM
Armcortex, it's indeed an interesting question, whether free energy will save or ruin society.


Everyone will be able to visit you on your paradise island... with their free energy yacht, that you gave to each and every douchbag or worse humanoud being.


So maybe taking the Captn Nemo route would be cooler, smarter.


Then again, we run out of resources and will go under in chaos if we don't find a save, inexhaustible energy source.


Eighter way, mankind must socially evolve to become ready for settling the universe, as integer, great species. We must cut off our animalistic and criminal behaviour. Capitalism is based on this animalistic and criminal, egocentric thinking, therefor current order is socially stuck in barbarian tradition, so capitalism is not the future. It has no future. The only question is, will it destroy us completely, or can we overcome its flaws in a smooth transformation to a society without money?